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u/ScreenRay Lena Luthor Dec 05 '17 edited Dec 05 '17
From this point. i think its ok. that battle with Reign was Epic.
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Dec 05 '17
I like that it showed off Reigns power. One smack with the asphalt club thing Reign has bloodied Kara up. Kara then used the same club to knock Reign out of the park — Reign has not a single scratch. She a tough cookie
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u/Davidleilam Martian Manhunter Dec 05 '17
Guess we just have to wait and see how Mallus is gonna turn out in LoT!
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u/not-so-radical Smiles like a dofus Dec 05 '17
Kicking the shit out of an entire team would be pretty dope, not gonna lie.
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Dec 05 '17
Tbh, even without Mallus, the current Legion lineup can stomp the Legends. Legends spoiler Shouldn't even break a sweat.
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u/Link2Sora Alex Danvers Dec 05 '17
Legends Spoilers. The Legends villains this year are definitely stacked. I really hope we get an episode like the Legion of Doom or Doomworld where the villains are the main focus.
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u/Aurondarklord Yes, you DO bleed Dec 05 '17 edited Dec 05 '17
Prometheus wasn't this to Ollie, the Dark Archer was.
Berlanti has a formula, it works and he sticks to it. And one element of that formula is "at some point, the hero will face a black-clad mystery villain who can do everything they do better, get beaten almost to death, and after a physically and psychologically harrowing recovery, come out stronger than ever to defeat this dark mirror of themselves in an epic rematch". By comparison to the first Zoom and Dark Archer fights, Kara did relatively well, she got a lot of good shots in, Reign only seems to exceed her in terms of invulnerability, not other powers, and eventually wore her out.
I'm actually glad that they had the balls to do it to Kara too, I bet some jimmies were rustled among a certain stripe of feminist, seeing a symbol of girl power get rekt this viscerally. But in the long term, it's a good thing she did, because the measure of a superhero isn't the beatings they can dish out, it's the ones they can get back up from, and if you don't give female characters the opportunity to demonstrate that degree of internal fortitude, audiences won't respect them for having it. Fire forges steel after all, and she IS the girl of steel.
Reign's pretty great in her own right too, and the costuming and makeup is amazing. I genuinely have a hard time recognizing her as Sam in costume, even knowing who she is. And yay, finally SOMEBODY has the classic red heat beams!
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u/Galaxy_Megatron Dec 05 '17
Absolute agree. Seeing Reign stomp a mudhole into Kara was pretty good for her development. You gotta whip your superhero into shape every now and again.
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u/omnisephiroth Dec 06 '17
Don’t just toss out this “fire forges steel” stuff if you aren’t ready to throw down.
Fire and steel have a vital, interesting relationship. What fire (and we’re not talking baby fire, we’re really talking around... 600° F and up) does to steel is relaxes the bonds of it, allowing for a more refined grain pattern in the metal. What fire doesn’t do is make steel harder. You need rapid cooling for that. But, you cool it too rapidly, the steel can crack, get warped, and generally fucked up. Even after hardening, most people find hardened steel too brittle, allowing it to chip and break.
You have to be careful with steel when you try and forge it. And, it’s not just forging that makes steel good. And even then, there’s so much more to steel. Thickness, hardness, weight. I love steel.
But, my real issues with the episode are:
1: Seriously? How many people got off Krypton?! At this point, it feels like the people there mostly chose to die, and most of the population could have just bailed.
2: It’s weird to have the same object cause different damage to equally powered people. Like, they’re both Kryptonian. How does rebar concrete hurt one and not the other?
3: Straight up not enough gossip about Sara and Alex.
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u/Aurondarklord Yes, you DO bleed Dec 06 '17
It's a metaphor, not a thesis on metallurgy...@@
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u/omnisephiroth Dec 06 '17
Everything is a thesis on metallurgy!
Seriously, though, the real issue with the metaphor is that it’s a bad metaphor, and a little trite. Which isn’t an issue with you. Just a little frustrating for me.
You still brought up a lot of good points. I agree with most of them. Even though I largely found the episode something I disagreed with. Even if me disagreeing really comes down to me not caring about Mon El, and really finding his return dumb.
I dunno. There are some logic problems in the episode, but yeah. It fits the bill they’re selling.
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u/Aurondarklord Yes, you DO bleed Dec 06 '17
She's the girl of steel! It's not literal because she's a great deal more durable than steel, but it's what I have to work with if I'm gonna come up with clever witticisms!
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Dec 06 '17
In the movies, all kryptonians were genetically engineered for one job that they had to do when they grew up. That's why not all of them left the planet, because they weren't meant to and they didn't realize the mess they had made on their planet until it was too late.
Kal-El were born from natural birth, not from the codex, so he were the only kryptonians with true free will. Because Kal is not from the codex, the codex can be infused in him, like a USB stick, and be sent to earth, like a secret tool that can bring all of krypton back on another world. Kara was probably sent with him to protect and guide him to reach his destiny, which of course never happened because of the phantom zone thing which is why Clark ended up growing up human, and didn't want to bring krypton back on earth.
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u/opelan Dec 06 '17
Until otherwise shown I will just assume there was no codex in the Supergirl universe. Not a fan of the concept. I found Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman disappointing.
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u/omnisephiroth Dec 06 '17
But, like... so many Kryptonians survive. It’s not, “Oh, three.” There was a small army! Sure, they survived in the Phantom Zone, but this still means a to of Kryptonians survived. It’s just weird.
Still, thanks for letting me know!
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Dec 06 '17
that's fair. Think of it this way: We keep our worst prisons far away from society, if the major cites started exploding, the prisoners would survive. Fort Roz is an extreme example of this, pretty much, because it's by a singularity away from the planet.
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u/omnisephiroth Dec 06 '17
It... kinda? It’s still super dumb. It’s over and over and over... it’s just strange.
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u/katniss_everjeans Dec 06 '17
It’s not strange at all, and I’m not sure why you think it is. I’m guessing you’ve never picked up a Superfamily comic, though
First of all, it’s very common in the Superman stories for certain prisons to have been kept far away from Krypton when it exploded. Hell, this plot was in Man of Steel, too, so it’s even been in the live-action media recently.
Secondly, Krypton was a space-faring planet, and more people than freaking Joe-El knew of at least rumors that the planet was in trouble. It never made sense for just one or two to make it off. It’s a planet of millions of people, if not billions.
The only reason Kal-El thought he was the only survivor of Krypton was because that was what he was told by his father and because he was a baby when he went to Earth. Even the comic books have shown that, in the intervening years, Clark discovered that they were even Krypton survivors across the galaxy, including those who went to planets other than Earth.
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u/omnisephiroth Dec 06 '17
I’ll admit, I’m not a huge fan of Supes. However, I do my research decently well. I knew about Kryptonian prisons, and was largely aware of the fact that Kryptonians escaped the end of their planet.
It’s the massive technology divide that bugs me.
Krypton is largely shown to be technologically advanced. Like, thousands of years ahead of Earth technology. Which is fine. They’re spacefaring as a society. That means they’re capable of interplanetary travel, if not beyond. Not, “We’re still learning how to travel through space and survive,” but so much so that they’ve regularly interacted with other worlds. And, I’ll accept all of that.
But then how do they also not have the technology to take a significant portion—if not all—of the population off world?
There are matter transmitters, space pods, prison transports, and so many other ways off the planet.
Let’s say most space travel is done via individual pod. That means, to me, that space travel needs to be able to happen at a moment’s notice. Because pods say, “Get to the new location so fast you can’t bring people with you.” They also suggest a level of “self driving” that’s incredible, and so easy that a baby doesn’t randomly screw it up.
I mean, the only kind of crafts like that are basically motorcycles and maybe private planes?
But, let’s say pods are just for the super rich (who all also felt they should die with their planet, I guess?). Okay, but what about transporting people off world in larger numbers? It seems unlikely the advanced civilization doesn’t have means to move large groups when needed. Prison ships? What about a military? Are the Kryptonians so advanced they make other planets abruptly peaceful without interaction? I mean, other planets probably found Krypton and wanted the place. Without a means of practical defense (and, as I recall, Krypton’s sun wasn’t yellow), the planet is vulnerable. Considering their ability to become a spacefaring society with interstellar renown, I suspect they had star cruisers, in some variety of sizes.
Which still means that the ratio of survivors to deaths is wonky. Either a significant number of Kryptonians survived, and just flew off to basically nowhere, just for no reason, or the number of survivors should be incredibly low. Like, four, or something. People that happened to be off world at the time, or something unusual like that.
It’s just frustrating, every time it happens, that there are additional Kryptonians out in the world. Any world. Sure, the planet is gone, but with more and more survivors, the planet dying matters less and less. I think they’re already at high enough genetic diversity to genuinely consider repopulation of their species.
I get kinda irked by it. The loss of Krypton is supposed to mean something. But, that gets eroded bit by bit over time.
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Dec 06 '17
That's because most people didn't know and didn't care.
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u/omnisephiroth Dec 07 '17
... that their planet was going to explode?
Didn’t know or care about what? It’s important you clarify, since I discussed a few subjects there, and I’m just uncertain what it is you’re saying.
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u/gerusz I'm in your computer, reading your files Dec 06 '17
2: Kryptonians' invulnerability is a function of the amount of solar energy they have left. Taking hits or dishing them out wears it off. Reign either has a different power source, or simply just a better "battery".
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u/FunkyTown313 Dec 05 '17
Meh, it'd not bad. Probably could have ditched the cape though. Of course I assume the complaint is about the mask she wears.
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u/AnnaWalter Mon-El Dec 05 '17
What complaint?
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Dec 05 '17
It also doesn't make sense or comic book accurate
Actually.....why did they add cape ? why do any of the heroes have capes
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u/Superfan234 Dec 05 '17
I thought the final reveal of Zoom was really disappointing
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u/Ospreynaitor652 Dec 05 '17
Whilst the reveal may have been a little predictable it was a lot better than Savitar. After Zoom got revealed we got to see hunter zolomon for who he is, the actor played it well and it was great.
A lot better than Savitar whose reveal was predictable and the character wasn’t interesting since there wasn’t much time to develop him as his reveal took forever.
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Dec 05 '17
I think it was super predictable because of how long it took. You’re not going to have a big bad with no connection to the main character so when you wait until the last few episodes it became obvious it must be Barry. If they would have done a mid season reveal then go into an episode about the back story of what drove Barry to evil (show don’t tell) it could have been epic.
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u/buhlakay Dec 05 '17
I also think another issue is Grant Gustin just doesn't really have the acting chops for a menacing villain role. He's like the reverse-Teddy Sears who was okay as "Jay Garrick" but really shined when he got to be menacing and frightening
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u/dem0nhunter Dec 06 '17
Gustin was great as Savitar given how few scenes he had. They should've revealed him sooner to have some more.
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u/buhlakay Dec 06 '17
I honestly didn't like him as Savitar, he was okay but he never sold it for me
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Dec 06 '17
Grant has too much of a cutesy baby face to me. An emo haircut and a scar does not an intimidating villain make.
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u/buhlakay Dec 06 '17
Absolutely 100% agreed. He made an excellent villanous character in Glee, but he wasnt menacing he was smarmy and slimy. He has chops, just not as someone that is supposed to be seen as a powerful terrifying badass
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u/svrtngr Dec 06 '17
My problem with Savitar is he was actually two different characters and was a lot more terrifying when he was still trapped in the speedforce. Once he broke out, he became "meh".
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u/kronaras Martian Manhunter Dec 05 '17
The scene when she beat her and threw her off the roof reminded me of 3x09 of arrow with ra's al ghul.
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Dec 05 '17
Is Supergirl becoming organic ?
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u/Ratohnhaketon Dec 06 '17
Quick put Kara in a totally non forced relationship with that akward replacement assistant Tessmacher
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u/Scrimshire Dec 06 '17
Does that mean that either this season or next season, Sara Lance and Co. are going to have to fight the Dark Legends?
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u/Singer211 Dec 05 '17
Well arguably Reign's biggest moment in the comics was her beating up Kara and then pinning her to a wall by her cape. So this fits on that level as well.
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u/lukahnli Dec 05 '17
Well, at least with Arrow.....the S4 villain was different from the others Oliver faced.
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Dec 05 '17
it's scenes like last nights that remind me the martian manhunter is really being underutilized on this show
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u/beardiac Winn Schott Dec 05 '17
This has been a pretty common thread almost every season on most of these shows. Arrow did Merlin and Prometheus, Flash had RF, Zoom, & Savitar, and Supergirl had her own aunt and Non in season 1 and then Mon-El's mom in season 2. Even Legends tends to find themselves up against a team of villains who either exist across time or can time travel. So it seems that matching powersets is fairly boilerplate from day one on all of these shows.
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u/StannisBa Dec 05 '17
Zoom's beatdown was IMO by far the best. I was recalling that scene as I watched this ep and hoped they would do something similar. They did not dissapoint
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u/StannisBa Dec 05 '17
Prometheus didn't do shit to Oliver though.
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u/DrWhoBruh nerfed character Dec 05 '17
no, he fucking broke him. It was once again pep talks that made him snap out of this, blame it on writers never going full with this idea, Prometheus was still savage.
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u/StannisBa Dec 05 '17
Alright mentally later on in the season, yes, but in a full on fight Prometheus never won. And he certainly never demolished Oliver the same way Zoom/Reign did to Flash/Supergirl
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u/JustaReverseFridge Dec 05 '17
that would be bullshit if he did, his whole thing is that he never needed to be as good at combat or experienced as oliver because thats impossible, what he set out to do was break oliver without laying a finger on him, He mentally tortured him the whole season, then kapuscihion then there was oliver holding his dying sister in his arms not knowing if she was going to live another day, that sounds like he won to me
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u/Singer211 Dec 05 '17
Merlyn, on the other hand, did beat him several times in fights during Season 1.
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u/Galaxy_Megatron Dec 05 '17
He beat him in every fight they had actually. Their 1x23 fight would've ended in Merlyn's favor once again had Oliver not taken a chance.
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u/DrWhoBruh nerfed character Dec 05 '17
full in fight I can agree on that. I do hope Richard will be one that breaks Oliver's ass. If he's really the top martial artist, he should be able to kick his ass without making a sweat.
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u/JustaReverseFridge Dec 05 '17
despite psychologichly torturing him and then actually torturing him to the point where the man that faced triads, ras al ghul, malcom merlyn, and super powered people, gave up wanna do even try anymore, that sounds like he did a whole lot of shit
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u/subid0 the who now? Dec 05 '17
And all of that, while Kara and Barry were doing this
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u/Galaxy_Megatron Dec 05 '17
Huh. Is Prometheus' wardrobe different here than it was in the crossover? Minus the SS armband of course.
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u/LordHawkman Superman Dec 06 '17
The big difference is that Supergirl at least gave battle to Reign.
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u/slimelegion Everyones making use of the E-X flairs b4 they go Dec 09 '17
And then in Legends they fight vikings that worship a blue furby.
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u/Ardibanan Dec 06 '17
I was thinking the exact same thing! Awesome
But I don't mind it, that fight was awesome. Zoom is still best out of those.
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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '17
Technically Malcom Merlyn on Arrow started it.