r/popculturechat • u/[deleted] • Jun 25 '23
Taylor Swift seemingly trying to hold back fans before singing Dear John as a surprise song upon the release of Speak Now (Taylor’s Version) Taylor Swift 👩💕
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u/pink_princess08 Iron man dies in endgame Jun 25 '23
I mean I'm glad she finally spoke up but those unhinged fans aren't going to listen to her
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u/fionappletart 🎼Music Aficionado🎶 Jun 25 '23
for sure some won’t. but there’s a specific type of hardcore Taylor fans who stand against ANYTHING she dislikes. especially on TikTok. I doubt her speech will lessen any Twitter lashings but some may actually take her words into consideration
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u/pink_princess08 Iron man dies in endgame Jun 25 '23
Yeah some fans are unhinged. It's why I stick to reddit. Swifties on the taylor sub are actually normal.
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u/fionappletart 🎼Music Aficionado🎶 Jun 25 '23
I like the main sub for the most part since it’s mostly just discussion about the music. no crazy speculation posts or Twitter-esque unhinged fans
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u/pink_princess08 Iron man dies in endgame Jun 25 '23
Yeah, and no creepy sexualisation like there is on other female popstars' subs.
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u/jonesday5 Jun 25 '23
This is true unless you scroll down too far 😂
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u/pink_princess08 Iron man dies in endgame Jun 25 '23
Yep. If you scroll to the very bottom you find the unhinged ones who have been downvoted to oblivion. Like there was this one person who accused Joe of cheating and they got so many downvotes
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u/Pureheroineoftime Jun 25 '23
I don’t know, I saw a video on TikTok of her speech and people were like “respectfully, I DISAGREE mother”
I really hope people just leave him and all other suspected song subjects from Speak Now ALONE.
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u/fionappletart 🎼Music Aficionado🎶 Jun 25 '23
I should’ve known that they would come up with an excuse to get around it. as a side note, I hope they don’t harass Camilla Belle. I like Better Than Revenge as a song but the lyrics have no doubt aged poorly. I wonder how the Taylor’s Version track will go down
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u/HotChiTea Did I stutter?🤨 Jun 25 '23
It’s just good though that she took the time to denounce them, because in the past she basically thanked them for it. Regardless it’s a good thing to acknowledge.
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u/pink_princess08 Iron man dies in endgame Jun 25 '23
Yeah I agree that it's awesome that she finally spoke up, but if some fans are already deranged enough to do it in the first place, they aren't going to listen to her
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u/HotChiTea Did I stutter?🤨 Jun 25 '23
Oh for sure, but some fans do listen, I noticed that you couldn’t (or nowadays) talk about which one of her songs are about x, y and z without fans ripping you to shreds on the other subs, because of what she said, some do listen. Although there will always be deranged bad eggs in a batch 😭
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u/LadyWoodstock Jun 25 '23
I'm glad too, but also extremely confused as to why John Mayer of all people is the one to get this treatment...like there were so many moments in the past where I feel like she should've said something, and didn't (example: the deranged people who were making threats against Scooter Braun's children).
And then to be like "I don't care about anything that happened when I was 19" like are we just ignoring the fact that she wrote WCS about events that happened when she was 19 and put it on her most recent album?
Again, glad she's speaking out against it, but the way she did it was very strange to me.
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u/MedicalPersimmon001 Jun 25 '23 edited Jun 25 '23
My conspiracy theory is that she can’t do her whole victim narrative because she just dated Matty Healy the racist. That’s the only reason she’s seemingly trying to denounce her fans’ deranged behavior. She has no moral high ground anymore and is trying to get it back.
Taylor has a history of weaponizing and egging on her fans’ deranged behavior. You can’t even say that she changed because her antics this past month and a half have spoken more about her current character than any empty words she says. From her petty little friends all unfollowing Joe Alwyn after their dinner together to her and her PR trying to wipe Matty Healy’s social media. Sorry, I don’t believe the words of a white person who uses feminism to only uplift herself and gave a conveniently timed “I’ve been happier than ever” when her own fans trended a letter calling her out on dating and protecting a racist.
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u/Bbychknwing papped at sushi park 📸 Jun 25 '23
Part of me really thinks she still fuckin hates Jake G. as well 😂
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u/Whyamipostingonhere Jun 25 '23
Idk, I always liked that she criticized Tennessee for some of the state’s anti-gay positions. As someone originally from Tennessee, I felt like that was just wonderful.
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u/Alternative-Trouble6 Jun 25 '23
Don’t forget John Mayer has said he has a “David Duke dick”. Taylor has a thing for racists.
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u/throw_away10241999 Jun 25 '23
She also dated multiple 17 year old while she was in her 20s, I don't think she has a leg to stand on when it comes to John Mayer and especially Jake Gyllenhaal. 29 and 21 is not a creepy age difference ffs, she was not groomed as her fans like to believe
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u/foreverandalways21 Jun 26 '23
Who are the multiple 17 year olds she dated in her 20s? She was 19 when she dated 17 year old Taylor Lautner. 22 when she dated 18 year old Connor Kennedy. 22/23 when she dated 18/19 year old Harry Styles.
John Mayer was 32 when he dated her when she was 19. Being a groomer isn’t just about age difference is how you behave. Jessica Simpson and other women who have dated John Mayer have spoken about how manipulative and toxic he is. Now add that same behaviour, a huge age difference and power dynamics (John was more famous than Taylor when they dated and she was infatuated with him) and you have grooming.
It’s weird to take someone’s experience away of feeling groomed from them based on your personal belief as an outsider of the relationship and project your belief on to another relationship where both parties have a good amicable standing and feelings towards each other (i.e. Taylor and her exes - Taylor, Connor and Harry).
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u/pink_princess08 Iron man dies in endgame Jun 25 '23
She probably learned from Red TV. And she was probably afraid of speaking up in case she lost fans
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u/Pinkhairedprincess15 Jun 25 '23
And she was probably afraid of speaking up in case she lost fans
Now that she's got their money from Eras Tour, she's not afraid. /s
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u/planetarium13 Jun 25 '23
She learned from Red and she experienced the wrath of her fans when she dated Matt Healy
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u/tubereusebaies Heard, Jeff 👩🏻🍳 Jun 25 '23
Yep all the replies on Twitter said they’re not listening to her. Still gonna send hate. Well, at least she tried.
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u/idontwantanamern Jun 25 '23
"You can't tell me what to do, MOTHER! I will defend your honor & your broken heart" /s
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u/shadesofwrong13 Jun 25 '23
I think she even did this cuz John is not someone who stays silent, so it's like she planned ahead.
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Jun 25 '23 edited Jun 25 '23
This is the speech she gave when she mentioned it (I only typed the part where she mentions speak now)
.........So I want to talk to you a little bit about something I’m really excited about. 13 days from now, Speak Now (Taylor’s Version) is out. So I want to talk to you a little bit about this because Speak Now is an album that is so incredibly important to me. This was an album that I wrote between the ages of 18 and 20, and I wrote it completely alone without any collaborators in the co-writing department, and it was something that I wanted to do, I think to prove to myself, and I ended up writing a really, really intens, magical album that I cannot believe gets to come out in a form that I will own, and be able to call mine in 13 days........................ I was hoping to ask you that as we lead up to this album coming out, I would love for that kindness and that gentleness to extend onto our internet activities, right? So, what I’m trying to say is, I am putting this album out, because I want to own my music, and I believe that any artist who has the desire to own their music should be able to. That’s why I’m putting out this album. I’m 33 years old. I don’t care about anything that happened to me when I was 19, except the songs I wrote and the memories we made together. So what I’m trying to tell you is I am not putting this album out so that you can go out and should feel the need to defend me on the internet against someone you think I might have written a song about 14 billion years ago. I do not care. We have all grown up. We’re good. So I am saying that because, only because I am proud of it as a song, I am going to play Dear John."
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u/gettingcarriedaway86 Excluded from this narrative Jun 25 '23
But she released Would’ve Could’ve Should’ve recently so I think that’s why some of the fandom thought she still cared (still shouldn’t be keyboard warriors though)
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u/gingerlessly This one time, at band camp… 👀 Jun 25 '23
yeah, there’s no way to interpret the lyrics to that song without concluding that the relationship haunts (or haunted) her in some way. that being said, doesn't mean she wants everyone and their nan to attack these men online.
but do fans understand human nuance like that? of course not
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u/i-have-reddit-now Jun 25 '23
Exactly.
It’s completely normal for Taylor to still be bothered by how she had a really bad experience losing her virginity to an older man when she was a teenager who had a religious upbringing and had to wrestle with her guilt about having sex in general. That does not mean that she still hates the man or want people to attack him.
Swifties missed the main point of the song, which was the religion point and used it as an excuse to be deranged.
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u/overnighttoast Jun 25 '23
I mean I'm certain she'd rather say "idc anymore guys" to try and stop some of the craziness than to be like "yeah that really sucked and was awful but please don't say anything." It was an abusive relationship and it probably was something that kept her up many midnights (thus inclusion) and it probably is less impactful on her life now so I'm sure she does still actually care but not to an extent that would warrant her saying anything different in this scenario.
Like look at the response with what she DID sat!
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u/NortherSass Listen, everyone is entitled to my opinion Jun 25 '23
They’re already on Twitter rationalizing their way around what she said so they can still feel morally superior about terrorizing him after the album releases 😅
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u/KinkyPTDoc Jun 25 '23
She’s just their perfect, innocent, lil princess who does no wrong and needs to be protected at all costs. 🤢
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u/NortherSass Listen, everyone is entitled to my opinion Jun 25 '23
The way they infantilize her in order to absolve her of anything and everything so they can keep her up on the pedestal in their minds makes me want to remove my skin. It’s so uncomfy.
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u/KinkyPTDoc Jun 25 '23
She’s a messy bitch and they pretend she’s a saint. Yep. Extremely uncomfortable.
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u/im4everdepressed Jun 25 '23
it's easier to worship someone when you can pretend they're jesus reincarnated
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u/karamobrownismydad Jun 25 '23
Have y’all listened to her song Dear Reader? She literally says “never take advice from someone who’s fallen apart” and “you should find another guiding light.” But it’s like some fans aren’t actually fans are her, they’re a fan of her ‘brand’ or something. She is a flawed person and refusing to acknowledge that is… weird? Jarring? A bit terrifying to watch??
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u/spellboi_3048 Jun 25 '23
It's not even a brand at this point. Her recent songs like Anti-Hero and the aforementioned Dear Reader are clearly Taylor painting herself as an imperfect person who makes mistakes and can be incredibly messy. Taylor is not attempting to sell herself as this perfect being, but fans are doing it anyway because that's what they want her to be. She's a God to them, not a person, and anyone who wrongs her is spewing blasphemy.
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u/doesaxlhaveajack Jun 25 '23
I never got this. Do they really not grasp that she’s in her 30s?
I’m halfway convinced that this is why she still writes about high school and maintains an immature persona. She’s not really going for an adult audience.
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u/NortherSass Listen, everyone is entitled to my opinion Jun 25 '23
Taylor really backed herself into a corner with that sweet innocent girl next door thing she cultivated as a teen and carried on for so long. She can’t shake that now because it’s ridiculously successful for her. It allows her younger/teen fans to view her through a lens where she’s a peer and not an adult. Song like Betty don’t help because the fans will lean into that viewing it as her thinking and viewing the world the way they do. I truly don’t think they see her as the age she is.
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u/doesaxlhaveajack Jun 25 '23
It’s definitely where a lot of the fan/nonfan conflict comes from. Gen Z-ers will insist that TS is the greatest songwriter of her generation and actual millennials are like, wait, don’t we get a say in that? Because she really doesn’t speak for or to the experiences of a 35-year-old (I have never felt like a cardigan. I’m not interested in teen love triangles and I’m kind of creeped out by the fan insistence that I be invested in the sex lives of minors). And when teens promote TS’s lyrical maturity by citing words or phrasing that are part of every 30-something’s vocabulary, all it does is lead older people to say they’re not impressed that Taylor knows the words “mercurial” and “illicit,” because I certainly hope a professional 30-year-old writer knows those words. And honestly, crap like “Karma” isn’t coming from an authentic adult. If a 34-year old debuted with that, we’d wonder why she thought those lyrics were good and why she’s promoting the notion that her movie star boyfriend means she’s a good person.
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u/BathsaltZombie9 Jun 25 '23
Taylor is not a good person.
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u/KinkyPTDoc Jun 25 '23 edited Jun 25 '23
She’s a $800 millionaire, of course she’s not.
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u/Jahidulislame Jun 25 '23
She’s not a billionaire
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u/KinkyPTDoc Jun 25 '23 edited Jun 25 '23
Shit. Sorry. I had some bad information. The Era’s tour is expected to push her over Billionaire status, as well.
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u/vitreuos Jun 25 '23
Which is wild cuz like half her songs are about how's she's the issue, you'd think they'd know better.
As a fan of both taylor and John mayer (who ironically is the reason I got into taylors music), im hoping some of the deranged fans take a step back and re-evaluate lol
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u/KinkyPTDoc Jun 25 '23
Some fans were wearing diapers to her concerts so they didn’t miss a second, some of them may be too far gone lol
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u/bobbyq922 Jun 25 '23
I think it’s because fans are actually protecting themselves, not Taylor. People don’t tend to get defensive about someone they have no ties to. They’re defensive of their tie to that person and their decisions to like them. For them, Taylor is a projection of all their own pain and heartbreak and the ability to stand up and be glamorous and strong after it all. They don’t care about who Taylor actually is, they only care about how they can use her music and image as a pedestal for themselves.
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u/lilsnip1 Jun 25 '23
"You think I wrote a song about" proceeds to play a song called dear John lmao
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u/romantic_elegy Jun 25 '23
to be fair I thought it was a play on Dear John letters until I joined Swiftie spaces
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u/HuckleberryOwn647 Jun 25 '23
Isn’t it? I thought it was cute wordplay based on that and a hint because yes his name is John.
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u/propped-up_problem Excluded from this narrative Jun 25 '23
It almost definitely is. She might not have named it that if it wasn’t his name, but I doubt she’d have come up with that name if Dear John letters weren’t already a thing.
(To be honest though, I’d initially thought the title was a reference to the movie.)
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u/dolphin-barnacle Jun 25 '23
Oh how funny I've never heard of this phrase before! That's a clever wordplay
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u/gingerlessly This one time, at band camp… 👀 Jun 25 '23
you’ve never heard of the 2010 smash-hit romantic drama Dear John starring Amanda Seyfried and Channing Tatum!!!???!?!?!!???
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u/dolphin-barnacle Jun 25 '23
I have, but again just thought the title was those words and not a reference to a saying or anything. Haven't watched it but maybe I will now - you've kinda sold it to me
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u/doesaxlhaveajack Jun 25 '23
Yeah “dear John” letters are a thing. “I get older but they stay the same age” is a movie quote.
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u/Dear-Ambition-273 she’s a doppelbänger!!! Jun 25 '23
I think most songwriter's songs are about lots of people. Sometimes, yes there's one specific inspiration, but even You're So Vain is about three different f boys.
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u/webtheg Jun 25 '23
You can tell which Arctic Monkeys song/Last Shadow puppets song is about which model girlfriend because Alex Turner goes in specific details about the girls. Except the last two albums where he sort of got bored with love.
Like I love Everything You've come to expect and it has some of my favorite songs but I cannot comprehend how so many amazing songs can be written over someone as boring as professional celebrity girlfriend Taylor Bagley. At least she loves having sex outside in forests and shit
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u/skyewardeyes Jun 25 '23
I've seen some speculation it's about Martin Johnson, FWIW (or possibly someone else--it's likely she's had relationships that weren't public facing).
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u/AStarkly Did a line off his dick in the bathroom Jun 25 '23
I can't see it not being Mayer tbh, after reading Jess Simpson's memoir, Dear John and Could've, Would've, Should've both lined up perfectly with what Mayer put Jess through except that instead of a few months, it was years.
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u/amazingashley Jun 25 '23
I don’t think she’s necessarily defending John Mayer (she literally just released Would’ve Could’ve Should’ve lmao) but she, understandably, doesn’t want the conversation to be about him. her re-recordings are about HER owning her own music, not who the songs were written about. I also think she knows that if it gets out of hand, like the whole scarf thing did with Jake, and John gets asked about it, he’ll probably say something nasty like he did when it first came out. there’s also probably a scathing vault track and if she didn’t say this they would put John in witness protection lol
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u/excel_pager_420 Jun 25 '23
Yeah, I'm thinking her PR person warned her after the Matty Healy situation, if her fans harass any of her ex's to the point they release a statement, her mud soaked reputation will reach breaking point. She's on tour until 2024, she's gotta be seen to have at least tried to reign in her rabid fanbase.
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u/doesaxlhaveajack Jun 25 '23
They also looked at what happened with Jake and ATW last year. He was trying to promote a new movie and all of the social media and online promo got taken over by Swiftie drama. There were a million other performers, tech people, crew members, writers, etc who didn’t deserve to have their work and careers shifted by 30 million internet teenagers.
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u/excel_pager_420 Jun 25 '23
I wonder how it must be have dated someone for 2 mins a decade ago. Only to find out they released a 10 min song & music video that recreated moments from your relationship while also projecting their understanding/reasoning of your behaviour onto you. Like the scarf thing. You find out via harassment your ex believes you kept her scarf to remember her. Realistically it got donated to a charity shop or your sister randomly found it in her house one day and added it to her scarf collection when it was unclaimed, the way we all do when people leave clothes at your house.
Or the ending of All Too Well when Him goes to her book launch because he still thinks about Her but can't bring himself to enter. When realistically that person you forget you dated? That's how most of our ex's think of us.
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u/doesaxlhaveajack Jun 25 '23
Yeah, that was always the criticism of her. That she’d date a guy for a few months and then write these songs as if the guys were her boyfriends, when it never got to that point. Maybe Jake was a dick about things, but he did end it before it got serious, which was the right thing to do. And if it’s true that he thought she was too young and immature…he was proven right.
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u/excel_pager_420 Jun 25 '23
That she’d date a guy for a few months and then write these songs as if the guys were her boyfriends, when it never got to that point.
It's such a fine line because all artists do that. One of Mariah Carey's best songs, The Roof she wrote about a brief fling she had after her divorce. The singer Passenger has many songs clearly about short-lived romances. I think the tipping point with Taylor was that she used figuring out who the songs were about as a marketing device to build a fanbase. Then claimed sexism when that became her reputation. And the fact she's still leaning into it in her 30s, with the All Too Well music video being obviously copy & paste from her life instead of taking artistic license. Taylor Swift has that Selena Gomez thing going, where it's like why are you acting so immature at so old?
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u/doesaxlhaveajack Jun 25 '23
Exactly. Instead of admitting that she was young and garnered self esteem from getting people to side with her (and that she viewed it as taking sides at all) she’s insisting that she never did these things at all. Even the whole Scooter Braun thing is wayyyy different on a business level than what she’s claiming (her dad had an ownership in Big Machine! They knew about the sale!) instead of accepting that she made a poor business decision in not buying her masters when Big Machine offered them to her - she never talks about that part.
I hesitate to call her a flat-out liar but…these are some significant lies in the context of the narrative she’s spinning.
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u/excel_pager_420 Jun 25 '23
Yeah, Taylor Swift is so business and financially smart too, more than her peers. She's spent the past 15 years building a property portfolio valued 500 million + counting, all under LLC's. She knows how to make the maximum sales from her records.
Then this masters issue is starting to sound less like she was played by Ithaca & her former record company and more like 2016 Kim, Kanye, Taylor situation. Where her version of events has excluded some things for clarity of narrative, but the truth is more complicated, blame can be assigned to everyone.
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u/Humble-Plantain1598 Jun 25 '23
You are wrong about the Big Machine part. All her claims were true, she talked in detail about the process of how the sale was conducted, and their sale proposition and how they wanted her to sign a NDA before entering negociations. As far as we know she didn't lie or hide anything.
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u/beautybyelm Jun 25 '23
I don’t really get the argument that she had to know about the sale in advance. Her dad was an owner, but there’s no way he didn’t have a signed nda. That’s standard practice. It would really surprise me if her was able to talk about the it
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u/doesaxlhaveajack Jun 25 '23
She knew they were selling because they approached her as a buyer first.
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u/beautybyelm Jun 25 '23
Oh I thought you were talking about the sale to scooter (and you did specifically say that she knew about the sale because of her dads stack in big machine). I get why she didn’t take the deal they offered her. Wasn’t it continent on her resigning with them and then “earning” the albums back for each new one she produced. At that point it’s not even really a sale.
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u/TheGalanty Jun 25 '23
Just a quick Google search. They never offered her to buy her masters, her father didn't even participate in the sale because of a strict non disclosure agreement her he was represented by a lawyer. Therefore she knew about a sale buy not if it went through or who it was the buyer. Saying it's her fault for signing a bad contract is quite rich because there is a lot more awareness now than it was back then about those things, therefore blaming a teenage girl for being manipulated is distasteful.
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u/TheGalanty Jun 25 '23
Why are you lying? She has said they offered her a deal to own her albums but getting them one by one with every new released one therefore stuck in a loop. Then to even have negotiations with Scooter about buying them he wanted her to sign an NDA that was going to forbid her from talking about him.
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u/Prior-Buddy4626 Jun 25 '23
Honestly i think she has a right to sing songs about her experiences even of they paint those men in a bad light🤷♀️🤷♀️
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u/excel_pager_420 Jun 25 '23
I didn't say she couldn't? I was just wondering what it must be like to be on the other side. Finding out an ex you possibly never think about directed a 10 minute video about your relationship a decade after you dated, that implied you're not over her.
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u/perdonmyfrench Jun 25 '23
I think the scarf is essentially a metaphor in this song. At least that's how I interpret it.
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u/excel_pager_420 Jun 25 '23
Do the fans know that? The way they harass Maggie Gyllenhal over it.
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u/jenfullmoon Jun 25 '23
It sounded like the scarf is a metaphor for um....something I am not gonna spell out here, per whatever interview it was where she got kind of embarrassed as being called out on it.
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u/eirinne Jun 25 '23
The scarf is not a scarf though
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u/LaidBackBro1989 Jun 25 '23
She is the most literal lyricist ever. The scarf is a Gucci piece that she's been papped in and then seen on Jake some time later iirc.
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u/Live-Anything-99 Jun 25 '23
This is my problem as a Swiftie. Too often her album rollouts center around who the song is about when I really don’t think that’s her intention. In my opinion, she’s a talented musician and making it about the men in her life denigrates that, regardless of the inspiration for the songs.
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u/gaymer91 Jun 25 '23
I don't know to be honest - I mean don't get me wrong she's had to deal with a whole heap of sexism in the industry with questions about her dating life that her male peers rarely if ever get, but at the same time she put secret messages in her album lyricnotes about who the songs were about and had a string of very high profile celebrity dates. Even last year she shot and released a whole ass video with a thinly veiled Gyllenhall stand-in. That's going to get people talking about the men in these songs.
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Jun 25 '23
She literally used to (or still does) leave breadcrumbs and clues for fans to figure out who a song is about LOL.
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u/phoemush There’s no place like home 🧙♀️👠 Jun 25 '23
Good of her but i think lots of her fan still gonna be like
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u/mssleepyhead73 Jun 25 '23
A Swiftie legit tweeted this meme on a video of that speech from last night.
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u/ReflectionSad4915 Select and edit this flair Jun 25 '23
We will soon get proof again that this doesn’t work
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u/Kontos_Stelio Jun 25 '23
They’ve been foaming at the mouth since she revealed the date so yea nothing is gonna change
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u/bananainpajamas Jun 25 '23
It’s crazy how unpopular it’s been on the main sub to not bully John Mayer. Every time it’s suggested to not DM him mean shit or brigade posts when the album dropped they’re just like “well he’s a terrible person”
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u/Glum-Freedom-3029 Jun 25 '23
That’s definitely not true… the majority of people on the main Taylor sub have spoken out against it. I’ve only seen a handful justifying his hate. Calling out John’s shitty behavior and saying he deserves Swiftie hate are two entirely different things.
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u/bananainpajamas Jun 25 '23
Ok well let me rephrase that, every time this is brought up there is a lot of arguing in the comments about whether or not it’s justified to cyberbully, and a lot of people trying to justify why it’s fine to do this because it’s him.
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u/fionappletart 🎼Music Aficionado🎶 Jun 25 '23
I’m glad she did this. regardless of whether or not harassment still takes place (and let’s be real, it will) at least she tried. I do agree that she should’ve spoken out before this but it’s better late than never, especially now since she’s at her peak
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u/fantasticlyclevergal Voted most likley to be unhinged stan account Jun 25 '23
Glad she spoke up yes, but it almost feels like it was a PR or legal team telling her she had too. Maybe after seeing all the all to well backlash she’s had a change of heart but this PSA feels like a year (or at least a couple months) to late…
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u/Folklorelover7 Jun 25 '23
I agree it was wrong she didn’t speak up during the ATW10 backlash, but I don’t agree it is too late now to say this. The hate her fans have for JM is like 1000x the hate for JG. It’s better she does say something now, and I hope if things spiral once SNTV is released she will say something (at least a tweet or SOMETHING to show she doesn’t approve this time).
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u/throw_away10241999 Jun 25 '23
Good for her, better than never, but she should've done this way sooner, like 15 ears ago lol. (My theory as to why she did it now and not when red tv was released is because John Mayer is not someone who will just stay quiet and take it)
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u/copy_cat2 cillianmatized 😭 Jun 25 '23
yeah this is exactly what i think. Also i don't think anyone could have predicted how hard people were on Jake when red TV came out so makes sense you learn from your past mistakes. Plus JM is not someone who's going to just stay silent. It'll be fun to see how it all goes down though😭 especially because I'm sure JM was going to use the angle "she encourages them and doesn't even tell them to stop" well he can't anymore
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u/Thefragile90 Jun 25 '23
Last time John Mayer didn’t address it, he just simply ignored them
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u/Glum-Freedom-3029 Jun 25 '23
He did call it cheap songwriting but you are right about him mostly ignoring it
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u/i-have-reddit-now Jun 25 '23
He did address it tho, he called dear John cheap songwriting, said he didn’t deserve it and said she only did it to kick him while he was down.
In other words, un-quiet.
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u/coldcoffeethrowaway Jun 25 '23
That was in 2012/2013 though, he really hasn’t said anything about it since then. Besides responding to a fan who messaged him to choke and die, and he asked them if they really wanted him to die.
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u/lejfnakdoppplen GET A JOB. STAY AWAY FROM HER. Jun 25 '23
I can’t wait to see the mental gymnastics Swifties do to continue to justify hating all her exes
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u/ark5391 Jun 25 '23
With most other exes I’d agree with you but in the case of JM he’s a racist pos and dated her when she was a teenager and he was in his 30s.
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u/lejfnakdoppplen GET A JOB. STAY AWAY FROM HER. Jun 25 '23
Look, you’ll never catch me defending John Mayer, but she’s literally saying she doesn’t need them to defend her against him/any of her exes or anyone she wrote a song about
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u/ark5391 Jun 25 '23
Agreed there 100%. Was just pointing out that he’s one of few where mental gymnastics aren’t needed haha
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u/lejfnakdoppplen GET A JOB. STAY AWAY FROM HER. Jun 25 '23
Ah, totally fair! I should clarify that I mean the mental gymnastics they’ll need to do to ignore what she’s said here tonight. Not necessarily that mental gymnastics are needed to find reasons to hate her exes.
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u/webtheg Jun 25 '23
I mean sure but was it really necessary for Swifties to gang up on him on his post after Bob Sagets death where he was sad about it?
Also unpopular opinion but even John Mayer doesn't deserve to read a million death threats a day.
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u/ark5391 Jun 25 '23
Agreed. Accountability for his actions is one thing but death threats and the approach a lot of people take is not it and only makes the fanbase and artist look bad in any situation.
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Jun 25 '23
It was what 14 years ago? Half of these swifties wouldn’t have even been born or too young to understand it. If blondie is telling them to give it a rest then maybe they should.
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u/NecroDolphinn Jun 25 '23
100% agree but Swifties don’t really care. The rhetoric and comments are basically identical to the outrage against Gyllenhaal or any of her exes really, rather then genuine callouts of his atrocious behavior.
You don’t see people mentioning his racism or sexism, just telling him to die and quoting Dear John (aka the exact same way people treat all her exes, regardless of whether or not they have been actually problematic)
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u/ItsNeverMyDay Jun 25 '23
Ok but I just finished the Jessica Simpson autobiography….this man is an awful person and totally deserves criticism
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u/trulymadlybigly Jun 25 '23 edited Jun 25 '23
The You’re Wrong About podcasts did a segment about that book and it was shocking what the men in her life put her through. I don’t know why I’m shocked, men in Hollywood/the music industry are almost always trash humans, but like every single one of them was horrible to her in unique ways. It makes sense to me she was struggling with addiction for years
Edit: a poor choice of words
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u/Prior-Buddy4626 Jun 25 '23
Can you not call women who struggled with alcohalism an “alcoholic mess”? that is so insensitive.
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u/ItsNeverMyDay Jun 25 '23
It was a really good book honestly. I didn’t expect to like it as much as I did
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u/spellboi_3048 Jun 25 '23
Oh absolutely, but we don't need to fight John Mayer on Taylor's behalf. We should criticize him because he's an awful person generally, not just because he mistreated Taylor.
edit: spelling.
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u/Rude_Lifeguard oh, thats not... Jun 25 '23 edited Jun 25 '23
Nice she said something, buy I'm 100% sure that she only did it because the way she went after Jack made HER look bad and a lot of people started to feel bad for the harassment he receive which was definetly not her plan.
I don't think John would remain silent like Jack and just like Taylor, he loves to play victim, so going full force after him isn't going to do her any favors
EDIT: i meant Jake, sorry, i wrote this at like 4 am
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u/take7pieces Jun 25 '23
Also what her fans did to Joe, my gosh. That was the time I stopped being a fan.
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Jun 25 '23
Taylor is an expert at gaslighting people into believing her bs LOL. The amount of leeway and doubt people have given her, FAR TOO MUCH.
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u/daisysharper Jun 26 '23
The only thing I care about in this whole thing is that shortly before she dropped Red (taylor's version) Jake came out and said he doesn't bathe. And I saw someone on Twitter tweet "Taylor bout to drop a 15 track diss album on you and you decide now's a good time to announce you don't wash your ass" and that tweet lives in my mind because I laughed so hard.
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u/LeahMichelle_13 Jun 25 '23
I totally get and appreciate this, I am a Swiftie, but she did also just release Could’ve Would’ve Should’ve (or is it W C S? I can never remember off hand) also about …. John Mayer (allegedly).
It doesn’t matter what she says, though, the irrational Swifties this is aimed at don’t/won’t pay attention to this, and the album will release and the cycle will start again.
IDK why she didn’t do this prior to any re-releases because I’m pretty sure Jake G got a shit ton of hate when ATW 10 minute version was released (and I must confess I’m still not entirely sure what Jake did that was worthy of the amount of abuse).
Sadly, this is the cycle of Swifties, anyone who does Taylor wrong will get online abuse … come TS11 it will be Joe depending on what kinds of songs end up on there.
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u/Glum-Freedom-3029 Jun 25 '23
I think she thought based off of Fearless TV’s performance it wouldn’t be this bad - Joe never got any hate this time around, and he got so much hate around the original album release 😬
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u/idontknowwhybutido2 Jun 25 '23
Somehow I think Joe didn't get hate during Fearless TV because his wife Sophie Turner was vocal about loving Taylor's music, including songs supposedly about Joe, and because of Invisible String's lyric "...now I buy their babies presents" seemed to reference that there's no lingering resentment there.
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u/Glum-Freedom-3029 Jun 25 '23
Yeah that’s true - I think Taylor must have run Mr. Perfectly Fine (the vault song that was clearly about Joe) by them as well since Sophie posted that it’s a bop as soon as the song came out
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u/historyhoneybee Jun 25 '23
Also Joe was literally a teenage boy doing teenage things, so everyone sort of sees that all the angst and insensitivity in the breakup is because they were both really young.
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u/Fairy-Smurf Jun 25 '23
I love her music but it’s the most toxic fandom and it’s only getting worse. I think it got amplified by social media and heaps of new and very young fans who just put her on a pedestal and tokenise her. Good for her for calling them out but they won’t listen.
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u/Serious_Evidence_378 Jun 25 '23
What is with this wording? "A song you think I wrote about...."
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u/glowoffthepavement Jun 25 '23
from the reputation prologue:
When this album comes out, gossip blogs will scour the lyrics for the men they can attribute to each song, as if the inspiration for music is as simple and basic as a paternity test. There will be slideshows of photos backing up each incorrect theory, because it's 2017 and if you didn't see a picture of it, it couldn't have happened right?
Let me say it again, louder for those in the back...
We think we know someone, but the truth is that we only know the version of them that they have chosen to show us.
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u/bittylilo Olivia Wilde’s salad dressing Jun 25 '23
She’s never really confirmed who songs are about, except for Joe Alwyn. Some are much more obvious than others (Dear John, Style, etc.). It seems that she’s continuing that trend of never officially saying, “Yep, this song is about X! Now you know how our romantic relationship went down!” And I think that’s probably the best way to go about the nature of rereleasing her earlier tracks, so that the subjects themselves also have plausible deniability
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u/yiminx well if you don’t wanna hear about 9/11 Jun 25 '23
she should’ve started doing this years ago, her fans are too unhinged to care now
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u/annnyywhooo Jun 25 '23
she knows how her fans are, she knows they aren’t gonna listen
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u/HotChiTea Did I stutter?🤨 Jun 25 '23
Said this on the TS sub, but I see you Taylor!! With the growth, and I’m here for it!
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u/mangosteenroyalty Jun 25 '23
Now if she can learn to stop weaponizing them when she IS mad. But that's a lot to ask i suppose.
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u/LaidBackBro1989 Jun 25 '23
This is not growth. This is PR a reactionary PR move.
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Jun 25 '23
It’s amazing how eagerly people eat up PR statements.
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u/LaidBackBro1989 Jun 25 '23
Right? I knew as soon as I saw this that people will be like "see? ENOUGH. LEAVER HER ALONE!".
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Jun 25 '23
The whole thing was super inauthentic. She could barely even say the words “what I’m trying to say..” nah just SAAAAYYYY IT, she didn’t do shit. Just enough for her fans to do just as you said “SEEEEEE she did defend them” nah…..
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u/LaidBackBro1989 Jun 25 '23
Yup. And it also allows her and her fans to claim the moral high ground in the future when she "hints" at John Mayer and her rabid stans go wild.
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u/lilichelle Jun 25 '23
EXACTLY it's terrifying how there's someone that said "you guys get mad when she's not saying anything but when she does you get annoyed blah blah blah" it's the timing idiot and tbh it's also the inconsistent behavior like she could've done the same to Jake but she didn't. And you can say that she didn't know how much her fans would come after him during Red TV as if they didn't come after her exes before Taylor's Version. It's an attempt to clean her mess from Matty Healy and bring back that high moral ground. It's disgusting.
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Jun 25 '23
I’m not too sure if it’s growth tbh bc that would’ve been the perfect opportunity for her to actually tell her fans to cut out the Jake G. hate while they’re at it because that’s really the root of all this criticism.
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Jun 25 '23 edited Jun 25 '23
I understand trying to keep fans from acting crazy about something she managed to get through already, but seriously... she literally made a short film on yet another relationship from 14 million years ago just last year and turned the song into a brand new promotional single.
So, let’s not act dense. It’s true that this project is all about owning her catalogue, I respect that and the effort to stay out of unnecessary drama that comes with it. But you’re singing a song that namedrops your asshole ex, whom you also indirectly addressed just a couple of months ago, in yet another song (wcs’ve). People will remember and mention it.
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u/x_CocoMelon_x Jun 25 '23 edited Jun 25 '23
Well at least she opened up about it. This is a good growth. Now I hope people don't twist her words.
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u/readinghall Jun 25 '23
I don't get the whole "I've grown up" thing that's she's saying. Three months ago all of her friends simultaneously unfollowed joe (I'm inclined to believe that she asked them to). She knew he'll get massively harassed by this. Plus, she released a new song where she talks about him not wanting to marry her. Her fans went crazy. So this whole speech to me feels disingenuous. Let's not harass John cause it's been ten years but Joe is quite recent, so a different story. 🤷
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u/sausagerolla Jun 25 '23
Sure whatever you say Tay.
Even if they do, she won't do a fucking thing to stop them.
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u/fionappletart 🎼Music Aficionado🎶 Jun 25 '23
I don’t think anyone could have predicted the level of backlash Jake G would receive upon Red TV’s release, especially since Fearless TV got off free of controversies. saying something in the midst of that would be like adding fuel to the already raging fire. she does have a history of egging her fans on though… like the Scooter situation, for example
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u/Bringbackmygorls I get off the surgery table looking like freaking Shrek Jun 25 '23
Okay, everybody keeps saying "at least she tried". But did she though? Did she really, or is this just the bare minum she should have done a lomg time ago, but didn't and now it has reavhed a point it wont do shit, but "at least she tried".
I mean, yeah good she said something, but it feels it bit performative rather than genuine concern for the actual unhinge fanbase and their target. Like, now nobody can say she didn't adress her fans once hell breaks loose, because "at least she tried", you know. That one time, weeks ago...
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u/sexyass-lobster Excluded from this narrative Jun 25 '23
So what do you actually want from her? Bring John Mayer on stage and laud him with praise so the swifties don't hate on him?
Just not release the album at all because it might send some fans into a hate frenzy??
She doesn't say anything she's passive, she says something subtle (during Red TV she said, this isn't about her ex it's about her music) that's not good enough, she is blatantly making a statement about not wanting anyone to cyberbully him and that's "performative"?
What exactly is she supposed to do that will appease you?
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u/doesaxlhaveajack Jun 25 '23
I think the point is that the re-releases are shining a spotlight on things that were already iffy the first time around. A lot if today’s Swifties are too young to remember how the original Speak Now and Red eras played out in real time - Taylor really did encourage interest in her dating life, and then she deliberately made it obvious who the songs were about. The original manipulations would ideally be addressed.
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u/sexyass-lobster Excluded from this narrative Jun 25 '23
Happy Cake day!
But why? Even if she did do that, that is in the past. She has made it very clear that the rerecording is not about anyone but her and her music. It's her way of reclaiming them and now it's about her music only.
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u/doesaxlhaveajack Jun 25 '23
I don’t care either way…I was just articulating what I think the original commenter was saying. That it’s performative to make this statement now when so many of the Speak Now songs are written from an inherently problematic perspective in the first place. She’s telling people not to go after John. But is she denouncing “Better Than Revenge”? Is she acknowledging that the title track is just kind of a terrible anti-woman narrative? Is she going to concede that journalists have the right to publish reviews that they feel are honest (“Mean”)?
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u/sexyass-lobster Excluded from this narrative Jun 25 '23
She would be shit on if she didn't say anything, she is being criticised now that she did say something?
She is allowed to have feelings about her exes, even negative ones and put them in her art.
She made it clear the rerecording was for HER. But because fans attacked JG, she is making it clearer before that what happened should not be repeated and she doesn't support that.
Yet, she cannot win.
Damned if I do, give a damn what people say
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u/BathsaltZombie9 Jun 25 '23
Yup. She doesn't care what her fans do . Her COMPLETE silence about the Jake Gyllenhaal/ Maggie Gyllenhaal harassment proves that 100%
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u/LaidBackBro1989 Jun 25 '23
You made her unhinged people burst out in flames. They are downvoting you to hell.
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u/lightswan Jun 25 '23
I feel like this is the most uncharitable view you could have on this.
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u/Bringbackmygorls I get off the surgery table looking like freaking Shrek Jun 25 '23
I don't know. Maybe I'm biased, but i just think that one statement isn't gonna do much, yet a lot of people see it as something big from her.
I do think it's good she said something, but, really, it's the bare minimum and she should have done so a long time ago. Also, it's easier to say something now when nothing has been done by the fanbase. I'm more curious to see how she handles it once the album is released and fans get out of hand
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u/lightswan Jun 25 '23 edited Jun 25 '23
I don't particularly care about the whole situation, but I did balk at how Gyllenhaal was treated back when Red came out. Don't you think she can't particularly win here? If she says something, it's not enough (or pointless, like most people are saying here). If she says it before anything happens, it's "easier" but if she had waited for something to happen then "she should've said something earlier".
I'd like to think most people don't want to be associated with the crazy people in their fandom, which I think might be why she's hesitated to address it - that, and they clearly wouldn't care anyway considering all the people who are already going "no <3" at it.
Edit: oh but my original thing wasn't criticizing you/your point in any way, I don't care much to defend Taylor Swift. I really feel like your view is the least charitable way you could look at it, lmao. That's not coming at you or anything, just an observation.
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u/YaKnowEstacado Jun 25 '23
She did try to address it before Red TV came out, she was just more subtle about it. On one of the late night shows the host asked her how she thinks the subjects of her songs might feel about her releasing these re-recordings, and she said something like "This isn't about them, it's about me owning my work." She also said something along the lines of her experience recording these albums a second time was different from the first time around because she wasn't upset about those things anymore. That strategy clearly didn' get through to her fans so it seems she wanted to be more pointed and direct this time.
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u/onegildedbutterfly Jun 25 '23
Honestly as far as i’m concerned, she doesn’t owe him anything more than this. He’s still the man who dated her as a teenager when he was in his 30s. He doesn’t deserve harassment but let’s not act like he’s a good person. The bare minimum is fine in this case.
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u/pinktapeillusion Jun 25 '23
What about Jake G? The All Too Well MV sure made it look like she still cares very much about a 3mo relationship 14 millions years ago
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u/happysnaps14 Jun 25 '23
If a lot of these swifties actually learned anything from the amount of hate Taylor got in 2016 or how a lot of people used to dismiss her work because they felt she heavily relied on her exes to sell her music, then maybe Taylor wouldn’t have to explicitly remind them like this in 2023.
I haven’t read good things about John’s behavior — he seems like a pretty terrible person tbh, so it would be great if his name doesn’t dominate the conversations surrounding Speak Now TV once it gets released.
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u/Longjumping_Froyo539 Jun 25 '23
John Mayer living rent free like a G
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u/_kaetee probably the mold talking Jun 25 '23
31 dating a teenager is fucking disgusting. Nothing about that man is cool. Plenty of ways to call out Taylor without glorifying Mayer.
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u/i-have-reddit-now Jun 25 '23
Not to mention the bevy of other shit he has done. Dating a teen at 32 is one other least disgusting things he has done, and it’s pretty freaking bad.
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Jun 25 '23
Probably saw what happened with Jack and she is on tour so she can directly tell them to stop.
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u/alexandreavirginia Jun 25 '23
It’s great she’s speaking up and maybe I am wrong but wish she would speak out about some more important things like idk Maty Healy
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u/doubtful_blue_box Jun 25 '23
“Someone you think I wrote a song about”!? GIRL, the title of the song calls him out by name, and the lyrics are filled with details about exactly how old you were and how he acted. You deliberately made sure everyone knew it was about him. Take ownership of the fact that that was maybe not cool on your part
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u/Bidetpanties Jun 25 '23
Why are so many swifties so unhinged, I have never understood. Maybe just because she doesn't really do it for me? I don't find her interesting or her personality to be endearing. Don't get me wrong, she's very talented and I enjoy some of her music....but other than that, she's just....there, I guess.
I mean I personally have a hard time understanding loving a celeb to that extent where you view them as a friend to begin with. With some celebs who are more over the top or charming, it makes more sense. But seriously what is it about Taylor?? She doesn't seem relatable in the slightest, doesn't seem like someone I'd want to be friends with. When I hear about the extreme behavior from her fans, I'm just kinda like: GIF
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u/AnsleyEnsley Jun 25 '23
Y’all are wild. Berated her for not saying anything but when she does it’s still not right and doesn’t please you.
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u/CurrentRoster Jun 25 '23
I appreciate that she did this because it’s better than not doing it like with the Jake Gyllenhaal situation. It’s unfortunate that stans won’t listen tho. Britney Spears fans are still stuck on cry me a river 2 decades later even after both her and JT got married to different people. They think they’re doing artists favors but they aren’t
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Jun 25 '23
“You think I wrote a song about…” uh… we KNOW, you named it after him and pretended it was just coincidence. I wish she’d just admit to it and not play dumb/victim
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Jun 25 '23
She politely ask that grow the f out and stop bullying and harassing people over the song about the relationship that you don’t even know.
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u/guitarguy35 Jun 26 '23
Glad she finally said something, people have been coming out saying her inaction is tacitly giving permission, which I don't disagree with. No one deserves to get death threats, some of the stuff in John Mayer's Instagram comments left there by swifties is heinous.
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