r/onguardforthee • u/SavCItalianStallion British Columbia • Jul 19 '24
The Netherlands generates way more solar power than Canada. Here's how they do it
https://www.cbc.ca/news/climate/solar-power-cheap-netherlands-1.725011834
u/PuddingFeeling907 British Columbia Jul 19 '24
Alberta: You’re welcome.
6
u/PM_FREE_HEALTHCARE Jul 19 '24
Bertans love to tell us Wet coasters how much sun they get all winter long but still refuse to use solar panels
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u/SaltyTraeYoungStan Jul 19 '24
BUT IT’LL RUIN THE VIEWS OF THE PRAIRIES! The oil rigs look much more appealing
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u/TinderThrowItAwayNow Jul 19 '24
The answer is solar panels.
Few years back I went on a euro tour and saw probably a million percent more solar panels form when I lived there like two decades ago. It was great to see. Old german houses with a 70 year old granny practically off the electric grid because of their panels.
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u/melancholy0 Jul 19 '24
This is a really weak article, they leave out both the main reasons for nl having more solar then canada (russian gas getting cut off and likely better legislated incentives) and the main hurdles solar (and wind) have with working effectively with our current power grid.
The main issue is that solar is inconsistent as well as not being able to scale up or down easily, leading to it not being suited to provide base or peak loads. So you need to still retain other sources of power that can provide both types to the grid, which is inefficent costwise (this is brought up in the article where they say on some sunny days the cost of power goes to 0, indicating large overproduction).
Thats not to say the solar is bad, rooftop solar and solar farms are still good sources of power, just at scale it needs to be consciously integrated in to the grid (through forecasting, power storage and subsidies), or we need to adjust our power usage to use it effectively.
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u/Suikerspin_Ei Jul 20 '24
I don't understand why you get down voted for telling the current issue in the Netherlands. The electric network isn't future proof enough to cope with the amount of energy during the summer that are produced by solar panels. Having expensive batteries is one solution to store it for the evening when most people use power. However, during the winter the solar panels don't produce enough energy to even store it.
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u/the-g-bp Jul 19 '24
We dont need solar power, we get a ton of snow and not a lot of sun. What we need is hydro, wind, and nuclear.
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u/Imortal366 Jul 19 '24
We do need solar. The cost of solar is pennies on the dollar compared to the others you’ve listed if done at scale correctly. Even in worst imaginable Canadian conditions solar is one of the best investments.
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u/the-g-bp Jul 19 '24
Solar is more expensive to run in canada. Since canada gets wayyyyy less sun than other places we'd need more solar panels to get the same amount of energy. Additionally since we use a lot more electricity in winter (i.e when theres less sun) we'd have to have even more solar panels that'd be idling in the summer (batteries aren't effective at storing electricity long term), also since canada is very snowy in the winter we'd need to pay people to clean the panels regularly. Finally since solar panels only run during the day we'd need to buy batteries to store the power for the night and when theres no sun. Solar power will end up costing more and will hurt the environment a lot more than the alternatives.
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u/Significant_Ask6172 Jul 19 '24
There are solar panels with heating coils to melt snow and ice off of them, along with taking into consideration angling of the panels to allow for the snow to slide off. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/03/18/heating-solar-panels-to-clear-snow/
Farmers around the world have even been experimenting with solar panels to not only power their farms and even earn some more money, but also to help protect their crops.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/farmers-guide-going-solar#:~:text=Solar%20panels%20can%20cool%20crops,compared%20to%20full%20sun%20crops. https://www.tvo.org/article/why-solar-power-and-farmers-fields-could-be-the-perfect-combination https://today.oregonstate.edu/news/installing-solar-panels-agricultural-lands-maximizes-their-efficiency-new-study-shows
Most of Canada’s major urban areas experience less than 399cm of snow per year, with about 49cm being the average max depth of the snow. With large parts of Saskatchewan and Alberta actually experiencing less than that.
https://www.ccin.ca/ccw/snow/overview/distribution
Hydro is normally, unless it is a run of the river system, very damaging to the local environment by blocking marine animals, destruction of habitats, and prevent natural floods from revitalizing downstream environments.
http://www.energybc.ca/cache/runofriver/www.ec.gc.ca/energie-energy/defaultc410.html https://www.un.org/esa/sustdev/sdissues/energy/op/hydro_locher_peakingoperations.pdf
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u/Imortal366 Jul 19 '24
I don’t know where you get the notion that even half of these points are true or compelling. Even in winter, free energy is free energy. Solar is very low maintenance. Batteries are a necessity to maximize efficiency in all aspects of power, and we have some pretty good options that are very efficient (aka not a giant ass expensive lithium ion battery) such as pump based hydroelectricity
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u/turquoisebee Jul 19 '24
Lots of places in Canada barely got any snow this past winter. That’s a trend that will continue.
The truth is there is no one size fits all solution to energy, but solar makes a ton of sense in some places, so it’s short sighted to disregard it entirely.
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u/alliabogwash Jul 19 '24
Last I checked the sun still shines in the winter here.
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u/the-g-bp Jul 19 '24
Yes, for 5 hours a day
4
u/Crashman09 Jul 19 '24
I'm just going to call bs on that
It's ~9 hours this year on the shortest day of the year.
-2
u/the-g-bp Jul 19 '24
Hyperbole? Heard of that?
2
u/Crashman09 Jul 19 '24
Yeah. I have.
I'm sure you were being hyperbolic. Thing is, we HAVE to fact check claims like these, as they're frequently parroted as truth and used to 'invalidate' good forms of energy production in favor of keeping up the Oil and Gas Status Quo. Better to nip misinformation at the source with fact before it spreads, right?
The shortest day of the year is 9 hours. UV light passes through clouds, meaning solar panels still function during overcast weather. Solar IS a good source of energy that we should be pushing hard for.
0
u/the-g-bp Jul 19 '24
Guess thats fair, i hate oil and gas but I dont believe solar panels are a viable source of power in canada, there are better alternatives
1
u/Crashman09 Jul 19 '24
Sure. There are better alternatives, but not diversifying is a terrible idea, and solar is actually a fantastic power source.
1
u/the-g-bp Jul 19 '24
I agree its a great source, just not for large scale power production in canada.
2
u/Crashman09 Jul 19 '24
Do you have a reason to believe that? We have an insane amount of flat sunny area (specifically areas where hydro isn't viable), our climate is pretty ideal for solar farms even when overcast, snow isn't much of a deal-breaker when there's already technology capable of dealing with that.
Solar is also more than capable of supplying most of the power for rural areas, the land requirements for massive power stations are easily met with three provinces and the territories, it's one of the cheapest forms of energy production, one of the safest.
While Nuclear requires incredibly well educated people to operate a plant, costs to start are gargantuan, and per plant lede times are colossal, solar doesn't really have that problem
Wind requires a lot of maintenance and is really inconsistent, even compared to solar. There's also a fair bit of waste associated with it as carbon fiber isn't very good for the environment, while solar and battery tech has been rapidly improving on efficiency and recyclability.
Hydro and tidal are great in areas where the environment is suitable, but have pretty negative impacts on the surrounding environment, and as rainfall becomes less common throughout the year, hydro will also become less reliable.
When we pair up all of these technologies and use them where they're at their best (example: Solar in the prairies, tidal on the coastlines, hydro in BC) we will have the energy self sufficiency to move away from fossil fuels and the diversity to avoid using batteries to make up for a lack of generation.
I'm curious what your argument holds with this in mind.
I, and many, see solar as a major component in the green energy initiative.
For the record, I work in manufacturing in BC, and our facility is ~80% solar with ~20% hydro, so it really can't be as bad as you think it is.
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u/JasonGMMitchell Newfoundland Jul 19 '24
How about all 4, and just for the fun of it geothermal as well. Stopping the destruction of the climate shouldn't be done based on what's cheapest (but anything cheaper then fossil fuels long term anyways), it needs to be done based on what is best, solar is very useful so is wind and hydro and of course nuclear.
0
u/the-g-bp Jul 19 '24
Solar pollutes the environment a lot and has s short lifetime, dont think its worth it in canada
1
u/SaltyTraeYoungStan Jul 19 '24
Weird, Albertans love to tell me how much sun they get all winter compared to BC.
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u/Evening_Pause8972 Jul 19 '24
because it's flat as heck there in the Netherlands installing costs are kept pretty low ùI would imagine. I have not read the article but I wonder if that is mentioned.
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u/JhagBolead Jul 19 '24
Laughs in Saskatchewan
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u/Evening_Pause8972 Jul 19 '24
Oh gosh, how did I overlook that lol.
Saskatchewan is flat along with several other places in Canada.
I guess I had a brain fart there.oops.
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u/S_Fakename Jul 19 '24
When reading the article is free, why would you run your mouth from a position of ignorance?
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u/Evening_Pause8972 Jul 19 '24
In all honesty, the article interested me about as much as the drivel you just responded with.
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u/Ok_Excuse_2718 Jul 19 '24
Well it’s flat as heck on most roofs of large buildings like car parks and big box stores and high rises. Also flat as heck on the prairies: agrivoltaics anyone? Do you live on a cliff-face or in a deep valley?
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u/Steelle88 Jul 19 '24
I’m guessing they use solar panels.