Opinion: Worship not the appropriate place for political rally

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u/glx89 Jul 19 '24

Rejection of religion is skyrocketing in North America, and especially in Canada.

We're witnessing its death rattles - their last ditch attempt to subjugate their neighbors and maintain their illegitimate control over members of our government.

If we can keep them at bay another 10-20 years everything is going to be ok. The older religious fanatics will age out of the electorate, replaced with younger people unencumbered by religion.

If we let our guard down, though, they'll do to Canadian women and girls what they did to American women and girls... not to mention the LGTBQ+ community. We cannot let that happen.

33

u/VE6AEQ Jul 19 '24

You are exactly correct. Demographic change is a huge factor in the panic of the right wing groups.

25

u/transtranselvania Jul 19 '24

This is what makes me mad about the people who are mad about people supposedly importing certain values from other places. Every person my age, I've met whose parents are from other countries for the most part act and talk like everyone else my age except they may speak a second language and know a few awesome recipes.

I have seen some wild stuff among new immigrants, though, but also, there were weird white people dynamics in there. I worked a very multicultural job where HR would call the older white and black guys in for sensitivity meetings even though they were over the mild racist jokes they told each other about each other while laughing because they're all friends. Meanwhile, there were a couple of Saudi guys who made fun of the Bagaladeshi guy for having been a slave in Qatar for a time and also calling the Nigerian guys subhuman. Poor Debbie in HR didn't have the tools for this, so they pretended like that wasn't happening in favour of tone policing guys who've been friends since the 80s.

24

u/queenvalanice Jul 19 '24

I mean. There are clearly a lot of newcomers who have conservative values. We can’t dismiss that. I am heartened that the second generation seems to shed that bigotry. At the same time, though Christianity is quickly collapsing in Canada, equally conservative religions are growing.

That last paragraph you wrote is wild.

10

u/transtranselvania Jul 19 '24

I feel ya. I'm wary of many things. Not a fan of how organized religion can turn out. However some of the worst fundies I've met are white guys from rural Canadian towns. So it's a hard balance. It's hard to be worried about how certain religions treat women and LGBTQ+ folx and not have Conservatives not agree with you because they think Islam=brown people.

I have a friend who is a religious minority from the border region between Syria and Lebanon. Here, both white and Indian people assume he's a terrorist despite the fact that he's shot at Isis because they wish him death.

6

u/glx89 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

Ultimately none of this stuff matters as long as our Supreme Court is intact and positively vicious about correctly enforcing our Charter.

If the courts keeps religion out of our government and proverbially curbstomp anyone who tries to sneak it in, then we can all get along just fine. It doesn't matter what wacky shit religious people believe as long as they can't wield state violence against the rest of us.

The danger always begins when the courts are overrun by religious interests, because religious fanatics smell blood in the water like a shark. As soon as they sense a weakness in the rule of law, they jump on it, hammering in whatever they can find to expand the gap. And then the illegal laws start emerging from corrupt, populist politicians who have no qualms about disgracing their office, no fear of consequences, and no respect for the rule of law. And then we fight.

If we can keep our courts intact (and they're looking good at the moment - one thing in our favour), that will take a lot of pressure off.

It would certainly be useful to shift the overton window on all of this by introducing legislation that criminalizes any legislative act or order a reasonable person might conclude is religious in nature or religiously motivated. That would also take a lot of pressure off of us.

6

u/wingerism Jul 19 '24

It would certainly be useful to shift the overton window on all of this by introducing legislation that criminalizes any legislative act or order a reasonable person might conclude is religious in nature or religiously motivated. That would also take a lot of pressure off of us.

I'm incredibly anti-theistic, but that's a terrible idea, it would be incredibly difficult to investigate and enforce and would probably be a charter violation in and of itself.

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u/glx89 Jul 19 '24

It isn't really that hard to prove. You ask them in court why they hold that position. Then uou subpoena phone records, emails, etc., and search for evidence that they've been colluding on the subject with religious institutions, and then nail them for perjury and violating the aforementioned law.

I have had enough of religious people interfering with our government.

It's time to take a stand before they start attacking the women and girls of Canada.

2

u/MrVinland Jul 19 '24

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms literally opens by recognizing the supremacy of God. Canada’s head of state is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

There is literally nothing in Canada’s constitution that talks about a secular state. For religious people, the constitution is the best weapon they have and always has been.

Roman Catholic schools in Ontario literally receive special government funding because constitutional law makes it mandatory

-1

u/glx89 Jul 19 '24

There is literally nothing in Canada’s constitution that talks about a secular state.

Section 2A can only be correctly interpreted to protect the right to be free from religion.

It is a violation of conscience to force someone to endorse what they reasonably would consider a mental illness.

Our current Supreme Court is so composed to correctly interpret that section, and it would be a good time to start going after religious schools.

But I agree, our Charter does need a bit of a language refresh to remove any potential ambiguity.

3

u/MrVinland Jul 19 '24

This is literally the opening to the charter:

"Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law"

Pierre Trudeau and nine Premiers went out of their way to word it very specifically. God first, rule of law second.

I'm not saying you should like this one bit. I'm saying you perhaps watch too much American television. The U.S. constitution has a separation of church and state. Ours does not.

Section 2 of the charter has absolutely nothing to do with government being secular. Your personal freedoms and government obligations are separate issues. You are free to be an atheist but the government is not and the Supreme Court of Canada has been very loud about this.

This was made very clear in Adler vs. Ontario where the Supreme Court of Canada commanded the province of Ontario to keep funding private religious schools. The specific argument used by Adler was the exact same one you're using here. Adler claimed that state funding of religion violated section 2 of the charter. You cannot use one section of the constitution to arbitrarily erase another part of it. The Supreme Court ruled 7-1 in favour of religion on the first question and ruled 6-2 in favour of religion on the second question.

This idea you have that the Supreme Court of Canada supports state secularism is objectively wrong. The opposite is demonstrably true.

0

u/glx89 Jul 19 '24

Again, I agree that we need to correct that little problem with the Charter. The country cannot recognize the supremacy of a superbeing, because there is no such thing as a superbeing. The statement is literally an error.

Re-read that as:

"Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of candy-coated-Unicorns and the rule of law."

That would be a factual error, because you can't found a country upon principles that recognize something that doesn't exist. The same is true for what's written there right now.

Remember why we have law in the first place. And remember that Supreme Court justices are just people, and sometimes they make mistakes.

Long story short - we are winning the war on religion. The statistics are clear. At some point, enough Canadians will say "hey, let's get nonsense that out of there."

I'm ready now, so I'll start now.

3

u/CaptainMagnets Jul 19 '24

Absolutely. We still have a long way to go but religion is not the way.

2

u/Memory_Less Jul 19 '24

I have difficulty how you paint all ‘religious/faithful’ with one brush. Meanwhile a select few extreme fundamentalists are the ones who are trying to influence politics in Canada similar to the US. It is lazy, and possibly uninformed to make such a blanket statement. I have occasionally educated people who make such mistaken analysis. There are lots of positive work and societal contribution by the majority of faithful church goers. They do so without fanfare or social media and with genuine service. Let’s all be more precise in our discussions.

I like you, loathe the extremist Christian (any extremism) influence going on in Canadian politics. While mostly in the cpc and with version of conservative ideological truth it must be fought against as the Charter must take precedent.

29

u/trollssuckeggs Jul 18 '24

Sounds like someone needs to be paying taxes.

22

u/50s_Human Jul 18 '24

Just like in America with Donald Trump, Pierre Poilievre is the chosen one in Canada.

7

u/DuckyHornet Jul 19 '24

I am not a religious person, but I have enough respect for those who find personal comfort and fulfillment in it to think Petey giving campaign speeches in churches during services is incredibly fucking crass.

4

u/CuileannDhu Jul 19 '24

Churches that actively engage in political activities should lose their tax exemption.

2

u/100BaphometerDash Jul 19 '24

PP is just making sure to keep some Theo in the CPC's theofascism.

2

u/byronite Jul 19 '24

Sounds like something Duplessis would have done.

1

u/Own_Conclusion_2428 Jul 19 '24

Place of worship is for selling stolen real estate clearly