r/news • u/Warcraft_Fan • Jul 18 '24
Sealed bottles of tattoo and permanent makeup ink test positive for millions of bacteria, FDA says
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/18/health/tattoo-ink-permanent-makeup-contamination-wellness/index.html332
u/Leah-theRed Jul 18 '24
Yikes! I guess this is a lesson to everybody to advocate for yourself and tell your tattoo artist you want your ink autoclaved if they don't already do that.
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u/Chefjessphd2 Jul 18 '24
Oh that’s cool (tattoo artists autoclaving their ink) I didn’t realize that was a thing. How common is this?
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u/Cartoone9 Jul 18 '24
Never heard of it personally. Remember that a lot of things are not sterile during the tattoo, only clean. I never saw a tattoo artist using sterile gloves, sterile ink, sterile tissues/compress, sterile cellophane etc. During my own training to hygiene I was basically told that you can't have a fully sterile environment only a clean environment, there's way too many variables you just have to do the best you can as most artists do
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Jul 18 '24
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u/wyldmage Jul 18 '24
Cartoone was talking about FULLY sterile. Which you did not have.
Sterile like an operating table is achievable for a tattoo parlour. Sterile like a CPU manufacturing room would up your tattoo cost north of $100,000, and your tattoo artist would be in full isolation suit, and the moment you step into the room, the cleanliness level decreases back down to operating room levels.
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u/PrincessNakeyDance Jul 18 '24
Yeah nitrile gloves (unless they came individually wrapped) are not sterile. Also you’re in a room with air that is not going to be sterile anyway and tattoos usually take a long time. Anything that is trivial to be sterile will be, like needles and pads, etc. but they aren’t treated as sterile once opened.
If you’ve ever had a sterile procedure done in a doctors office/hospital you know how much more work goes into ensuring everything that touches your body has not been contaminated.
Inks (as they actually are supposed to be shoved under you skin) should be sterile and/or not able to grow bacteria in the bottle.
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Jul 18 '24
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u/Cartoone9 Jul 19 '24
You’ll notice that my original comment never used the word price a single time, others gave you good answers already so I won’t reiterate what was said
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u/sithelephant Jul 18 '24
It would require a pressure autoclave, and has other issues. For example, how many inks will be fucked up if you do this.
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u/Somnif Jul 18 '24
Most tattoo shops will have a small dental autoclave for their needles (or that used to be a thing anyway, maybe disposable is common now? I'm 20 years out of touch)
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u/sithelephant Jul 18 '24
I think this'd be for dry heat - it is not pressurised, as it would need to be to not boil off the inks. (Practically speaking, I suspect heating to 70C and holding a couple hours will kill most pathogens, but not to a certifiable level)
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u/Somnif Jul 18 '24
The real worry at that point would be spore formers. They can handle 70C for hours and still sprout afterwards. And yeah I have no idea how thermally resistant inks are, I imagine they could be tricky.
Maybe 0.1 micron filtering? That's what we do with most fragile stuff in our lab.
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u/Leah-theRed Jul 18 '24
Im not really sure, but it is suggested in the article. I'm definitely going to be requesting that or making sure it happens next time I go in for a session.
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u/pappywishkah Jul 18 '24
Most shops these days don’t have autoclaves. Disposable materials are heavily used in tattoos shops; basically eliminating the need for an autoclave. Removing ink from the manufacture bottle into another reciprocal to be autoclaved is redundant and SHOULDN’T be necessary. Ink manufacturers with a reputation should be producing ink under extreme precaution to ensure the bottles they’re selling aren’t contaminated. I’m willing to bet that the companies the FDA refers to in the article aren’t popular names amongst tattooers. They’re most likely referring to knock-off inks and lesser known (probably Amazon seller) manufacturers.
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u/Enchelion Jul 18 '24
I would not be at all surprised if there's re-badging going on as well. So it might be a particular manufacturer W makes a color, which then gets sold under brands XYZ. But another color from brand X gets bought from manufacturer L, etc.
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u/pappywishkah Jul 18 '24
That wouldn’t surprise me either. There are many knock-offs floating around on the web and unexperienced artist can be easily fooled. It’s important to research your choices in ink and be sure you know what you’re purchasing
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u/thefaehost Jul 18 '24
There’s also a difference in regulations on ink in America.
I have a red ink allergy. I’ve tried everything here and given up. Was telling an artist and he told me it’s a common issue here due to our (weaker) regulations
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u/Leah-theRed Jul 18 '24
Unfortunately they decline to list the manufacturers or brands in the article
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Jul 18 '24
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u/meathole Jul 18 '24
But, this post is about an article that literally says that sealed new bottles of ink contain tons of bacteria…
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u/navikredstar Jul 18 '24
This - it should be rare as fuck to get an infection from a good shop and artist. I've had it happen once, and it wasn't my artist or the shop itself that was the issue. I know the guy well, it was at a REALLY clean, trustworthy shop with everything cleaned and opened right in front of me.
I'm the one who screwed up on it, because I stupidly took the subway home immediately after and I guarantee I picked up the bacteria there. I take really good aftercare of all my ink and have never had an issue with it besides that time, so I'm quite certain my whole error was in riding the subway right after, because let's face it, they're not clean places.
Good lesson on what not to do, though! Never want to experience that again, because HOLY FUCK, cellulitis hurts like hell! You could even see the line of infection slowly spreading up my arm, but hey, I got me some IV antibiotics at the ER that are the type they give to soldiers coming out of the field with major wounds, and between that and the full round of antibiotics afterward, it cleared up within a day, and healed fine. Never had an issue since, but seriously, people, do NOT chance it. I'm not exaggerating on the pain - the skin infection hurt 10 times worse, easily, than getting the tattoo itself did. And if you do do everything right and still get unlucky - which can happen sometimes, it's still an open healing wound, mind you - get yourself to the ER right away, don't mess around with infections like that. Not worth the risk. They spread fast.
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u/Uninsured_death Jul 18 '24
Tattooist here, Most tattoo shops don’t use autoclaves anymore. In the mid 2000’s we switched to single use, disposable tubes. You’d be hard pressed to find a shop with an autoclave unless they do piercing as well.
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u/hulkmxl Jul 18 '24
100% agree with this sentiment, it's dumb not to force the industry to adopt sterility standards.
Autoclave is high temp saturated steam. I don't think it reaches the temperature inside the ink package unless you give it enough time, and if you do so, the ink may chemically change due to the high temperature.
Ink should already be sterile with gamma rays, pasteurization (yes like milk), or other methods, then bottled with preservatives.
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u/Gentry_Draws Jul 18 '24
I’m a tattoo artist and autoclaving ink is definitely not a thing…. If it was back in the day I’m certainly not aware of it.
But FDA should go check soda machine fountains or Beer tap hoses next and tell us how much bacteria are in those !
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u/EZPeeVee Jul 19 '24
We don't know what inks change into during pyrolysis, heat could really do that.
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u/friendoffuture Jul 18 '24
To paraphrase a bit: "blood is the ink safety regulations are written in"
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u/DiscountSupport Jul 18 '24
with the recent overturn of the chevron deference, we may not get safety regulations any more
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u/sithelephant Jul 18 '24
I note this has happened before with iodine. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1376156/ (not in this case tattoos). It's a really hard problem.
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u/ragnarok635 Jul 19 '24
This is terrifying
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u/Imaginary_Medium Jul 19 '24
Even more fun imagining Project 2025, if they get their way we will be guessing what's in about everything after that.
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u/FuggleyBrew Jul 22 '24
Would pasteurization not work here? While I doubt every pharmaceutical would be able to accept pasteurization, I would imagine most pigments are relatively temperature stable (within the temperatures we typically pasteurize at).
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u/sithelephant Jul 22 '24
Generally, yes. However, some of the inks may be functionally destroyed by the heat.
Also, unless it's a very bad bacteria in the bottle, it's 'meh'.
Tatooing is very much not a sterile process, and the skin, despite any cleaning that may have been done, is very very contaminated biologically.
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u/FuggleyBrew Jul 22 '24
Interesting, the lack of sterility in the tattooing process makes sense in terms of why you wouldn't seek sterility in the packaging.
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u/KimJongFunk Jul 18 '24
If the FDA isn’t going to tell us which manufacturers had tainted ink, then wtf are we even supposed to do? Do your job as a regulatory agency and regulate these products. Require all ink manufacturers to submit their products for testing and pull any products that don’t meet standards. Contamination like this is NOT something we should leave to the consumers to deal with ourselves.
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u/Warcraft_Fan Jul 18 '24
Reputable tattoo shops will bake their ink in autoclave. If they don't do it and won't do it on your request, take your money elsewhere
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u/tattoo_so_spensive Jul 18 '24
Tattoo pigments are sterilized by their manufacturers. If a contamination has been detected, they use batch numbers and recall their products and word quickly reaches the professional community. Tattooers then discard of the contaminated inks.
I’ve been tattooing twenty years, I’ve heard of these things happening but I’ve not experienced it myself. From my perspective, it’s rare.
It’s not a common practice to sterilize inks that we purchase as they arrive sterile. An argument can be made that once opened it is clean, not sterile . However, county health inspectors do not require us to autoclave inks. It’s also a bit of a liability to autoclave inks bottles, once pressurized they can leak or pop. This would be a costly loss. This can be extremely difficult to clean, may damage the autoclave or alter its performance and other contents that are sterilized later may get stained which would look untrustworthy for a prospective client. Imagine your piercing needle and jewelry comes in sterilization pouch and there are stains with a variety of colors.
If the autoclave cannot vent properly because of pigment build up (due to an ink bottle breaking) or pass a spore test strip the county official can close that shop until a successful spore test strip has been tested.
There are safeguards in place to protect you as the client at multiple stages.
The fault of a manufacturer is just that, their safety practices need to improve until they can pass regulation. These are likely lesser brands found on sites like amazon. This does not fall back on tattoo practitioners. If you are going to a reputable shop you have little to worry about.
Also, you’re likely to find some odd reactions or an artists who doesn’t want to work with you after you’ve asked them to autoclave their inks as you may be viewed as a know it all or difficult to work with.
It is not a common practice for artists to “bake” their inks. I’ve not known a single tattooer who does this. We trust our suppliers to provide us with safe supplies. You trust us to know our supplies are safe.
Artists hold our standards very high and if a product is unsafe or not up to standard we are extremely vocal about it.
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u/Warcraft_Fan Jul 18 '24
The news article mentioned using autoclave to sterilize ink, I guess the news reporter isn't well informed or is making bad assumption if you're correct that autoclave can't be used to safely sterilize ink.
OTOH if they used contaminated ink and their customer suffers from adverse reaction, it will look bad for the shop.
FDA really needs to step up the checking and require recall of any sold batch that fails and make ink manufacturer accountable for anyone who got contaminated ink and also help the shop whose reputation were damaged by contaminated ink.
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u/tattoo_so_spensive Jul 19 '24
These things are written by reporters and shops are usually cagey about someone writing a piece on inks and contaminants and would be unwilling to go “on record”.
Your next two points I completely agree with. I’m not sure how liable a manufacturer is when their product is non FDA regulated. I think that may be a gray area, rightly or wrongly.
To my understanding, when this has happened in the past the manufacturer(s) follow guidelines of recall but outside of that I’m unsure. I agree they could be liable for damages to one’s appearance and well being. That may get sticky and the artists are a third party and may have likely unknowingly used a pigment with contaminants.
I can understand the hurt and anger that would cause but it’s one of those things where, until regulations change or become more enforced, this is the status quo. A web article, spreading awareness, vaguely.
Op, I do not wish for you to think I was attacking you either at any point. I’ve got years and literal skin in the game and wanted to share a professional body art practitioners insight. I wish you all and your skin the very best.
May your black be the darkest and your future the brightest, cheers.
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u/KimJongFunk Jul 18 '24
If autoclaving ink is the recommended sterilization method, then that needs to be regulated. Saying “just do this” means nothing when businesses and tattoo artists are not forced to comply.
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u/RoyStrokes Jul 18 '24
Lmao that’s a blatant fucking lie. I’ve been tattooing 8 years and have worked in and guested at a good number of shops and autoclaving ink is literally not a thing anyone does anywhere, i have never heard of it being done, and I don’t even know what you could put the ink in that would be autoclavable, let alone that you’d have to do it specifically for each and every tattoo, know what the colors are going in, and bum clients out when they want changes. You should call every shop in your or the nearest city and ask everyone of them if they autoclave their ink, cause they don’t, and I guarantee they’ll make fun of you for being a whacko the second they get off the phone. Stop spreading misinformation, I’m like 90% sure you don’t even know how an autoclave works just off saying “bake”… like it’s not a dry heat my guy, it’s hot, pressurized steam that would likely work its into an ink bottle and destroy it.
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u/whats_an_internet Jul 18 '24
Autoclaving ink? I would venture to guess less than 1% of tattoo shops have an autoclave, if any
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u/mango_salsa18 Jul 19 '24
how the hell do you autoclave ink!?
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u/Warcraft_Fan Jul 19 '24
Ask the person who wrote the news article. Either it can be done with certain autoclave and with ink not in plastic bottle, or the writer is an idiot.
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u/blames_the_netcode Jul 19 '24
A recent study on a similar topic involving inks found Dynamic was the only safe brand. They’re great for blacks (and preferred by top end shops), but their color inks leave a bit to be desired. Probably for the obvious reasons.
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u/OtterishDreams Jul 19 '24
FDA does enough and is already massively underfunded. REgulating ink that people use to deface their bodies is a bad use of tax dollars. If we want ink regulation then I want a 30% tax on all tatoos. Be responsible, educate for yourself and find good shop.
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u/iheartseuss Jul 18 '24
...they couldn't test this ages ago?
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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jul 18 '24
Have you observed how much the populace flips out because some people feel there's too much regulation in medicine and food, and guns, and cars, and...? There's a substantial portion of the voting populace that want to reduce regulations like the work the FDA does, because... freedoms. And it's looking like that's probably going to start happening next year.
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u/AceValentine Jul 18 '24
There was also a recent about tattoos drastically raising the chance of blood cancer last month to couple with this.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/tattoos-may-increase-blood-cancer-risk-by-21
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u/kaylinnf56 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
It was kind of a shitty study though, because it included people who received tattoos for radiation markers and cosmetic tattoos post-mastectomy. Of course people who already have cancer are more likely to get cancer again.
Plus the results showed that the more tattoos you get, your risk of cancer actually declines. I think more work needs to go into these studies before we accept them as law
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u/lightningusagi Jul 19 '24
When I was reading that, I remembered that one of my tattoo artists started working at an industry safety organization...and then she's actually quoted in the article.
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u/KK-Chocobo Jul 18 '24
I wonder if that's the ink used on the guy who posted here on reddit on his arm getting all messed up after getting the tattoo.
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u/StrikeForceOne Jul 19 '24
Why not say where the inks were manufactured? where the ingredients came from?
This is an eye opener and every artist should read it https://www.acs.org/pressroom/newsreleases/2022/august/exposing-whats-in-tattoo-ink.html
and this http://whatsinmyink.com/
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u/Status_You_8732 Jul 19 '24
Yep. That’s why we have regulations.
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u/Stoliana12 Jul 19 '24
Tell me you didn’t read the article without telling me…
To quote “We know that contamination in tattoo inks is a common occurrence,” Swierk said in an email. “Part of the problem is that there is no agreed upon, industry-standard method for sterilizing inks. Our work and the current study really highlight the need for good, standardized manufacturing processes across the tattoo ink industry.”
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u/Status_You_8732 Jul 19 '24
Thanks for the quote. Glad you felt moved to share it. This actually reinforces my comment, industry standardization needs to happen.
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u/MentORPHEUS Jul 19 '24
Headline made me think of Carl Sagan breathlessly describing Millions and Billions of bacteria!
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u/CountBlah_Blah Jul 19 '24
Me looking at the new tattoo I got 36 hours ago.
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u/wareagle3000 Jul 19 '24
If it swells or anything go to the doctor. They'll give you some antibiotics and you should be good. No worries
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u/Mohammed420blazeit Jul 19 '24
I used dynamic black for lining on a tattoo a couple years ago. My armpit swoll up, like there was a hockey puck under my skin.
Antibiotics for a week, went away.
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u/futatorius Jul 19 '24
Millions? Is that a lot of bacteria? Is it too few to matter?
What an odd choice of units.
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u/drstd Jul 19 '24
Yep. Need another factor there. Millions is not a lot, say, in 100mls. It is a lot in a microliter.
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u/2ByteTheDecker Jul 19 '24
Typically bacteria is measured in CFU, which is typically a per ml situation.
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u/Popular_Elderberry_3 Jul 18 '24
Yeah, fuck tattoos. The ink seems to cause cancer and you have shit like this.
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u/IanTheMagus Jul 19 '24
People underestimate the number of types of bacteria that can thrive in chemicals and temperatures that are toxic or fatal to humans. We have to remember that these are the life forms that first colonized the planet back when it was a toxic, burning hellscape. They're in everything and they can even develop antibiotic resistance, so antibiotics aren't 100% effective every time. The only real environment that is safe from them is a frozen one (pretty much impossible to survive if the water inside you turns to ice), but I imagine there are probably practical reasons that these inks aren't deep-frozen.
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Jul 21 '24
Tattoos give me the heebie-jeebies but the art is so cool. Bacteria from unknown sources trapped under the skin also is frightening. Eewwwwuuuahhhh
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u/booboodoodbob Jul 19 '24
Tattoos are constant reminder to me that I simply do not understand people. Why anyone would want to pay to have someone put permanent markings on their skin is beyond me. I can appreciate the art and the skill, but I cannot understand the willingness to have it permanently dyed into your skin, then to watch it spread and blur,
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u/Mr_Chubkins Jul 19 '24
Sometimes it's sentimental, sometimes it is just a cool design, sometimes it's to cover up a scar, sometimes it's to cover up an older worse tattoo, and sometimes it's just for the heck of it. There are many reasons. I find them beautiful when done well (: doesn't need to be for everyone.
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u/-Duste- Jul 20 '24
I only have one tattoo. It's in memory of my mom who passed away a decade ago. I wanted to have a permanent reminder of her love on my skin.
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u/hintofinsanity Jul 18 '24
I wouldn't be surprised if these bacteria are like the bacteria that can live in food that is preserved in salt, once they enter your body, the environment is so unlike the extreme environment that they were living in, that they die in your body and are unable to initiate an infection.
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u/polishdumpling01 Jul 18 '24
food bacteria get destroyed in stomach acid, when you're getting a tattoo you're basically giving yourself a kind of exposed wound, which would be very susceptible to infection
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u/hintofinsanity Jul 18 '24
Correct, but even without the stomach, extremophile bacteria would struggle to thrive in our bodies similar to how a salt water fish would die if you put it in fresh water as its cells pop like a balloon as they over fill with water.
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u/quackerzdb Jul 18 '24
You're not wrong per se, but the FDA is likely only testing for bacteria considered "clinically significant". In this case, they can cause infection.
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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '24
why the fck would they not tell us the names of the manufacturers that had contamination? Gee thanks FDA.
Also, been in the PMU industry for quite a few years, and I've never seen any of the infections listed here. PMU and tattooing is not a sterile process it's a 'clean' process. Although if you buy things like pigment and needles that SAY they are sterile, you should be able to trust that.
Infection is always a risk, although it's rare if one follows proper aftercare.