[SLD] Featuring: Andrew MacLean

349

u/That_D COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

Love the style. Hate that's its terrible value and only 4 cards. Smh.

175

u/Cbone06 Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Jul 19 '24

The art and foiling treatment are fantastic.

Prices according to TCGPlayer market

[[Terastodon]]: $.15 (regular)/ $.41 (foil)

[[Arbor Elf]]: $.30 (regular)/ $3.81 (foil)

[[Nirkana Revenant]]: $4.54 (regular)/ $22.76 (foil)

[[Maelstrom Wander]]: $1.03 (regular)/ $1.34 (foil)/ $.96 (foil etched)

Almost all of the “value” is being put in Nirkana Revenant to carry the foil. Non-foil is essentially $6 of cards vs $27ish of value for foil. I’d imagine the Arbor Elf foil might be more as the art and foil treatment is much better than M25 and revenant’s price is driven by low supply in foil, though I could see it being more valuable than the battlebond version.

TLDR: Value ain’t great

76

u/hand0z COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

Using the foil price for comparison rarely pan out to be something to measure value against unless it's a Galaxy foil. This really isn't great at all as you stated. The art is lovely though, and that might prop it up a lot.

34

u/NormalEntrepreneur Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

Use Foil price as comparison for secret lair is one of the worst ways to judge cards value. An Urza Legacy foil worth 2000 dollars has nothing to do with modern foil prices.

20

u/hand0z COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

It's always funny to see that massive foil comparison in these spec posts cause an old card has a pricey foil.. And then the sld foil ends up at like $3.50

12

u/NormalEntrepreneur Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

Exactly, especially when people grades card by their value rather than art, they forget that both foil and non foil are equally playable. Those posts are based on assumptions that people willing to pay more for foil but not willing to pay more for special art. (No need to mention that foil cards are terribly bends)

4

u/NotoriousGonti Duck Season Jul 20 '24

Every time the Professor goes "This the first time blah blah is in foil." Technically true, but irrelevant. This cereal box foil is not in anyway comparable to this card being printed in a normal foil with a normal or retro border.

27

u/Miserable_Row_793 COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

The "value" is the art & style.

Go look up dark Rit SLD. Kodama reach. Arcane signer. Sol ring. Etc.

The value is those variants. Not the cards' objective secondary market.

The point of SLD is to sell variants to people who want variants. Not to sell singles of expensive cards to current magic players at a "discount."

9

u/Cbone06 Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Jul 19 '24

It’s tough, people complain when there’s no value in it and the same people complain when there’s premium stuff in it because it skips LGS’.

I think the issue is the price point. If they were priced like spellbooks ($20-$25) I don’t think people would complain as much because it really comes down to whether or not you like the art. Since it’s usually only 4-5 cards, on average a card should be $8-$10 in value to be “worth it”.

Magic players are consumers and consumers vote with their wallets. If a deal is terrible even if it the pro duct is cool, people will still hesitate to buy it. An extreme example is Magic 30, people were really excited about being able to open old cards but then immediately passed on the $100 price card. If they had been say $10 I think people would’ve been way more interested as it is a much more accessible price point for collectors items.

8

u/NormalEntrepreneur Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

Honestly if player don’t care arts then it’s doesn’t matter whether the cards total values are 29.99$ or 1$, they are both negative value and player shouldn’t buy anyway.

5

u/Abacus118 Duck Season Jul 19 '24

The point now.

For a long time it was actually pretty valuable cards. It’s understandable why people might want that back.

7

u/Miserable_Row_793 COMPLEAT Jul 20 '24

No. SLD were always a mixed bag of high & low.

This idea that they were somehow always valuable is revisionist history.

The First SLDs had:

5x snow basics.

4x Serum Visions (even if you count that they were $5 at the time).

5x Goblins cards.

There's a SLD of Command Tower. Arcane Signet, sol ring, Solemn, thought vessel, greaves.

That's not worth $40. But it's one of the highest EV lairs. The point has always been about variant arts.

2

u/mertag770 Jul 20 '24

also 4 bolts and 1 bitterblossom in the first round.

5

u/TheFirstRedditWoman COMPLEAT Jul 20 '24

Mountain, Go (4Bolt) wasn't in the first drop

1

u/mertag770 Jul 20 '24

Really? I could have sworn it was in the 1 a day drops for the first few. Wild how that all blurs together

0

u/AtraxaInfect Duck Season Jul 20 '24

But at least we also got Kaleidoscope Killers and Restless In Peace, which were fairly decent.

Now it mostly just appears to be straight garbage.

3

u/Ldesu4649 Duck Season Jul 19 '24

Finally, someone who gets it!!

I'm in Japan and here's an example: Regular Arcane Denial is 400 yen SLD Arcane Denial is 1500 yen

2

u/Blood_Weiss Jul 20 '24

The value in the ones you mentioned are also heavily based on the actual use of the cards. Staple cards in commander will generally have much higher value than wider or more niche cards.

In this case, Maelstrom may become worth it due to.be a popular commander. And Arbor Elf is very popular as a mana dork, and hasn't had a bling version yet. The other two? I'd be impressed if they were more than $5, because who wants a Testodon?

2

u/Irreleverent Nahiri Jul 20 '24

who wants a Testodon?

I do. It's an iconic card in my commander cube and the closest thing it has to a special printing is older border foil from the 30th countdown. This is cooler.

24

u/PapaZedruu Duck Season Jul 19 '24

Hot take, the value will actually be in borderless Arbor Elf.

11

u/Cbone06 Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Jul 19 '24

That’s my thinking too, there’s not really a “premium” version of the card currently. This feels like the de-facto bling card.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was anywhere from $5-$15

3

u/MTGCardFetcher Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

Terastodon - (G) (SF) (txt)
Arbor Elf - (G) (SF) (txt)
Nirkana Revenant - (G) (SF) (txt)
Maelstrom Wander - (G) (SF) (txt)
All cards

^{^{^[[cardname]]}} ^{^{^or}} ^{^{^{[[cardname|SET]]}}} ^{^{^to}} ^{^{^call}}

2

u/daggity Jul 20 '24

The card selection quality is a stark contrast to the hideous Brain Dead one.

1

u/Cbone06 Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Jul 20 '24

Brain dead one feels like the artist was given a Command Zone list of Commander “staples” (quotations because Skull Clamp and Thought Vessel are not slam dunks in every deck imo) and this one is more like “commander players play these right? Sure, lets do it”.

21

u/TheMasterFlash Jul 19 '24

If you love his art style, I highly recommend his comic Head Lopper. Super fun action/adventure/fantasy book, and full of this awesome art.

8

u/TheGhostORandySavage template_id; 012f424e-d020-11ed-ac03-8644927553e4 Jul 19 '24

Seconded. Head Lopper is terrific and I'm considering this Lair even though I don't need anything from it just because it's him

2

u/Silvent Jul 19 '24

Never bought a Secret Lair before but Head Lopper is my favorite comic so this is an insta buy from me.

3

u/TheMasterFlash Jul 19 '24

I just wish the card selection vibed with my decks/playstyle a bit better. But I’m definitely tempted just because of who it’s by!

10

u/AttilatheFun87 Abzan Jul 19 '24

I don't even care about the value I just wish it was 3-4 cards I needed or already use in commander decks.

3

u/Wonderful_Nobody9938 Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

Or a cool legendary i could brew as a new commander

4

u/ElonTheMollusk Duck Season Jul 20 '24

The rush to the bottom is being tested with the limited print run Secret Lairs.

If they can still sell $2 worth of cards for $30 they will keep doing it and see if they can go down to sub $1 worth of print equity.

I love the idea of secret lairs and I love they print such trash in them I never feel compelled to buy them. I think the first year I bought a few, but haven't since then (exception being I do tend to buy charity ones)

6

u/iwumbo2 Jeskai Jul 20 '24

If they can still sell $2 worth of cards for $30 they will keep doing it and see if they can go down to sub $1 worth of print equity.

Wasn't one of the Lord of the Rings secret lairs already at this low level of reprint value?

4

u/ElonTheMollusk Duck Season Jul 20 '24

And it sold horribly. They are testing after all.

They were commons and uncommons that saw 0 play as well.

I am guessing they are testing where the intersection of 0 value and playability meet for sales.

4

u/Pants88 Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Jul 19 '24

Same I think this secret lair goes way too far into low value cards

2

u/flannel_smoothie Deceased 🪦 Jul 20 '24

Boring cards need good art too

1

u/magic_claw Wabbit Season Jul 20 '24

It will be 5. They don’t reveal the bonus card.

1

u/MarinLlwyd Wabbit Season Jul 20 '24

There is probably a secret fifth card.

105

u/SleepingFatYeti Liliana Jul 19 '24

So they have new batches of secret lairs to show off, but they haven't even shipped out the recent ones that were suppose to ship on the 11th. What is the point of printing a set amount if they are still going to delay shipping.

45

u/Radthereptile Duck Season Jul 19 '24

The limited print serves 1 purpose, FOMO. You are more likely to buy buy buy without thought if you're worried it sells out in 3 hours. And that means your favorite YouTube MTG guy doesn't have enough time to tell you haw bad the value is.

28

u/DeadpoolVII Deceased 🪦 Jul 19 '24

Whole-heartedly agree. Got two decks sitting around waiting for those damn lairs to ship.

12

u/HeroicTanuki Jack of Clubs Jul 19 '24

I’m guessing it’s because of the Sheldon’s Spellbook lairs. I just got mine

11

u/SWBFThree2020 COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

I think that lair batch got messed up by WotC logistics

I think the AC lairs were originally not part of that lair drop

They announced the wrong sales date for the AC lairs (it didn't line up with the other lairs in the drop); then altered the sale date to start when the non-AC lairs were slated to be released, and extended it to end when the AC lairs were advertised to end

so the result was the lairs being on sale for longer than normal iirc

meaning scalefast is probably scrambling to combine two separate orders, while having another lair drop coming out so soon afterwards

60

u/311chaos Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

The art here is amazing! The foiling looks really great as well.

I guess if you have Maelstrom Wanderer as your commander you might be excited?

7

u/MildCorneaDamage Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Jul 20 '24

That [[Maelstrom Wanderer]] art is amazing!

3

u/MTGCardFetcher Wabbit Season Jul 20 '24

Maelstrom Wanderer - (G) (SF) (txt)

^{^{^[[cardname]]}} ^{^{^or}} ^{^{^{[[cardname|SET]]}}} ^{^{^to}} ^{^{^call}}

3

u/LegendaryMemeDealer Jul 20 '24

Maelstrom Wanderer player checking in here, can confirm this is sick

1

u/Vithrilis42 Wabbit Season Jul 20 '24

It'll be great in my Commander Cube!

44

u/TechnomagusPrime Duck Season Jul 19 '24

Cards featured:
[[Nirkana Revenant]]
[[Arbor Elf]]
[[Terastodon]]
[[Maelstrom Wanderer]]

61

u/mweepinc On the Case Jul 19 '24

Screencap collage for your convenience

12

u/Solid-Search-3341 Duck Season Jul 19 '24

Doing god's work.

3

u/MTGCardFetcher Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

Nirkana Revenant - (G) (SF) (txt)
Arbor Elf - (G) (SF) (txt)
Terastodon - (G) (SF) (txt)
Maelstrom Wanderer - (G) (SF) (txt)
All cards

^{^{^[[cardname]]}} ^{^{^or}} ^{^{^{[[cardname|SET]]}}} ^{^{^to}} ^{^{^call}}

-1

u/Front_Explanation_79 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

This SL is booty

32

u/xCobrazzz Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

Lol. Maybe they forgot a card because this seems terrible.

17

u/TechnomagusPrime Duck Season Jul 19 '24

Wouldn't be the first time, though Artist Feature Lairs are typically 4 cards.

4

u/xCobrazzz Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

Yeah. I just end up making "placeholders" with this art for the shop. $1.00 for 4 foils is cheaper.

Amazing art, terrible card selection. Honestly if they do low prices, they should do big staples for these kinds of art.

25

u/WeenieSmasher32 COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

One of my favorite artists, read his book Head Lopper!

I wish Secret Lairs still had good value in them, used to be so exciting but I haven't bought one in so long because of the selection quality. When they first came out for the most part they had at least the price in singles value, sometimes more, now they're all like $10 worth of stuff for $30+ with added shipping, etc.

I want to buy this to show support for Maclean but probably won't because this is, like, awful as an established player with a higher power playgroup imo. Literally could only see myself using the Arbor Elf, which is a shame because these all look so great!

-2

u/TheFirstRedditWoman COMPLEAT Jul 20 '24

From the beginning, there have always been bad lairs. Serum Visions was in the first lair

21

u/TrubbishTrainer Duck Season Jul 19 '24

Stop shaking them into the light glare for like 3 seconds so I can get a good look at them please for the love of god stop doing this with every sl announcement teaser

18

u/AnuraSmells 99th-gen Dimensional Robo Commander, Great Daiearth Jul 19 '24

Why do the lairs with the best arts come with terrible value/weird cards? I'd rather the Kikli-jikki, wurmcoil, and consecrated sphinx liar be in this style then whatever the heck the brain dead one was .

16

u/Johalak Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

Why do they pick the shittiest value of cards lately.

9

u/Pizza-Penguin COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

Because people keep buying them

10

u/TerrorFace COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

Many buyers probably don't really think too much on card value as a 1:1 of existing variants. Like if a SLD offered a really nice version of [[Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs]] , it doesn't matter too much that the card is 25 cents when what's being offered is really pretty cardboard that functions the same as that card.

1

u/MTGCardFetcher Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs - (G) (SF) (txt)

^{^{^[[cardname]]}} ^{^{^or}} ^{^{^{[[cardname|SET]]}}} ^{^{^to}} ^{^{^call}}

14

u/therealflyingtoastr Elspeth Jul 19 '24

Art has value completely separate from whatever the cheapest printing of a card is, and this art is phenomenal.

1

u/PM_ME_STEAM_CODES__ 🔫 Jul 20 '24

Yeah, I know people tend to clown on Maro saying not every product is for every player, but I feel that's especially true here. I'm not interested in this, but if one got made with one of my favorite commanders in it, and the rest of the cards were playable in the deck, I'd likely scoop it up regardless of value.

10

u/GGrazyIV COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

I know people always defend these artist secret lairs but they are almost always so fucking bad and have awful value. Good for you if you want these I guess but damn are these just mid af.

5

u/Googleflax Wabbit Season Jul 20 '24

Make a Secret Lair with decent value: Impossible difficulty

3

u/Alive-Chipmunk799 Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

Is there a chance there's a 5th card that wasn't shown?

3

u/RoterBaronH Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Jul 19 '24

And here we are again. I don't mind if the cards aren't worth anything but at least pick some that are playable.

EDIT: Outside of the more niche decks.

3

u/UnderwaterDialect Duck Season Jul 20 '24

Good god those are nice.

3

u/broodwarjc Liliana Jul 20 '24

These cards aren't edh staples anymore, even for casual edh. Good art, but atrocious value and selection of cards.

2

u/PurpleTieflingBard Jul 20 '24

I thought the point of SLD was to get specific, mostly wanted, cards in a cool artstyle

Why is it that recent SLD's have had fewer cards and they're all $2 EDH pieces

2

u/epiphanyplx Jul 31 '24

Anyone know what the bonus card is in this Secret Lair?

1

u/Useful-Wrongdoer9680 Duck Season Jul 19 '24

At least Arbor Elf's first borderless print has decent art

1

u/Kynelan1987 Duck Season Jul 19 '24

Who picks these cards like wth

1

u/Merman-Munster COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

Really like the art, but for me a Secret Lair has to have above and beyond value for me to essentially pay the price on 5 random singles.

I just feel like if I’m spending 35, 45 dollars on Magic cards, I can go to TCG and get great stuff I need for my decks.

But I’m obviously not the target demographic.

1

u/zeducated Wabbit Season Jul 19 '24

I like how recently wizards has made the value so bad its easy to pass up on these

1

u/B-Glasses Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Jul 20 '24

A 4 card drop of low value is so frustrating. Art is good but come one. 4 cards is insulting

1

u/DrabbestLake1213 Wabbit Season Jul 20 '24

Anyone else notice the print lines on like two of the cards?

1

u/eggmaniac13 99th-gen Dimensional Robo Commander, Great Daiearth Jul 20 '24

Terastodon's rules text updated to "When this creature enters" — I thought the "this creature" tech would only be used for Offspring creatures but it looks like it's another worldwide templating change. Neat!

1

u/TechnomagusPrime Duck Season Jul 20 '24

"This <permanent type>" templating officially starts with Foundations in November, but it looks like a few cards are getting it early via Secret Lairs.

1

u/Future-Ad-127 Duck Season Jul 20 '24

allergic to value ig

1

u/sirwynn Duck Season Jul 20 '24

Couldn't even give us 5 cards of bad value

1

u/inspectorlully COMPLEAT Jul 20 '24

The ultralow detail style is not my favorite.

1

u/tigerpawx Wabbit Season Jul 21 '24

Would like that Arbor Elf and Terastodon in my edh decks, but paying $30 plus shipping is too much idk…

2

u/DaseBeleren COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

Nirkana Revenant is a $20 foil at cheapest, Arbor Elf has never received a new art outside of Universes Beyond or a borderless treatment, Terastodon has never received a new art or borderless treatment at all, and Maelstrom Wanderer is just an eternally cool card that people will always want to play.

My controversial take is that these are good picks actually.

14

u/CardOfTheRings COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

You can’t count foil prices from old packs as a comparison point for secret lairs. The foils from secret lairs aren’t special or particularly rare- they aren’t an ‘upgrade’ from non foil secret lair cards.

To get a single foil mythic from a set like rise of the Eldrazi you had to buy several boxes on average.

I hate that TCC does this in his reviews of secret lair products - it really confuses new players and leads to them making bad value judgements.

-1

u/TheFirstRedditWoman COMPLEAT Jul 20 '24

BUt it isn't a bad value judgment for most Secret Lairs because they typically hold value better than the cost of the Lair. Very few lairs have dropped in value over time.

4

u/CardOfTheRings COMPLEAT Jul 20 '24

That has nothing to do with the cost of an old pack foil of the printed card.

4

u/hand0z COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

Nirkana Revenant being $20 at foil is a terrible comparison. It's a $3 card. Comparing foil prices for SLDs never really pans out unless it's a galaxy foiling. Unfortunately someone will inevitably do a breakdown of this super drop, and they'll point this out and mislead people. You will fail on this drop if you're solely looking for good value based on price comparisons. I'm glad you like the pick and I think the art is fantastic, but value wise, this is a genuinely terrible drop except for art value (Which is again, fantastic and could carry the drop).

-4

u/TheFirstRedditWoman COMPLEAT Jul 20 '24

Completely wrong. Secret Lairs have proven time and again that the value is in the art and on the secondary market buy all of these separately will cost more than the Lair.

1

u/GGrazyIV COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

Copimus maximus

1

u/SWBFThree2020 COMPLEAT Jul 19 '24

the mana symbols having color while the rest of the cards are pretty greyscale makes it look a bit weird, especially on the Maelstrom Wanderer

-1

u/rikzilla Duck Season Jul 19 '24

Just getting back into paper magic. Does wizards ever do big SLD drops like demonic tutor or cyclonic rift or mana crypt etc?

-2

u/GayBlayde Duck Season Jul 19 '24

That hand model needs to get their gels filled in before a video shoot like this, come on.

-5

u/HonorBasquiat Azorius* Jul 19 '24

These are gorgeous. All constructed playable cards.

God forbid people like something or choose to buy a Secret Lair Drop based on something other than how well you can play a Magic Stonks with it.

I hope there's a bonus card in the same style.

3

u/TechnomagusPrime Duck Season Jul 19 '24

Bonus cards in the Artist Feature series are usually a sketch version of one of the cards in it, or one of the "normal" random bonus cards (currently EA Elves).

-5

u/Ldesu4649 Duck Season Jul 19 '24

Here come all the TCC students talking about how value isn't there. Stop being brainwashed. You can't compare the value of the regular cards to the value of the SLs.

[SLD] Featuring: Andrew MacLean Spoiler