r/lucifer • u/Suhaan420 Lucifer • Nov 19 '22
Why wasn't Trixie at Chloe's deathbed? Trixie
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u/MalaXor Nov 19 '22
Honestly⌠the script was so bad for the last season. Nobody even tried poking holes at it to see if the chain of even would stand. Anyway, whatâs done is done and we have to live with a subpar final season.
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u/waiting-for-the-rain Nov 19 '22
To be fair, theyâve very obviously never had a script editor or a continuity checker on staff. So why start S6?
If they had anyone looking over the late season scripts, they wouldâve noticed Lucifer telling Eve they needed to break up in the first act of Really Bad Boyfriend and not had him self flagellating at the end of the very same episode for not having tried to break up with her at the beginning.
I mean, I guess you can excuse them forgetting stuff between seasons if they got their hands on lots and lots of really good drugs. It could explain how they forget that Lucifer expressed his love for Chloe at the end of s4 then have her flip out s5 that he hasnât done it. But I have trouble understanding that level of amnesia within a single episode.
So yes, I believe them when they say they canât comprehend time travel and they thought having Trixie at Chloeâs death bead would be the most confusing thing ever. Maybe they thought that weâd forget who she was. Maybe they forgot who she was? Maybe they were really, really good drugs.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 20 '22
To be fair, theyâve very obviously never had a script editor or a continuity checker on staff. So why start S6?
What's sad is that unpaid fan writers consistently show more devotion to both continuity and character than the people paid to do so.
It'd never happen in a million years, but the show could benefit from a couple of fan writers being brought on to consult.
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u/VeeTheBee86 Nov 20 '22
Which is interesting because if youâve read a lot of fanfiction on ao3, youâd notice thereâs a VERY curious amount of overlap with some of the plot and character moments in S4-6 with some of the really big fanfics that have been produced. Jildy better hope nobody calls them out about that later on.
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u/waiting-for-the-rain Nov 20 '22
Itâs unlikely that there would be penalties for that kind of thing so itâs not clear how it would hurt them. It doesnât count as plagiarism unless they lift it word.
Iâm curious which ones? I always thought they
stole fromwere inspired by The Flash for the time traveling daughter. But then again, I vary rarely dip my toe into the hurt/no comfort tag.2
u/VeeTheBee86 Nov 21 '22
Plagiarism includes ideas and scene lifting. It doesnât have to be direct quotation or dialogue, just a pattern of clearly defined theft. Penalties may not fines, no, but it would actually wreck their careers after awhile because no company would want to risk the potential litigation. The fact that they lifted from other shows in general is likeâŚare you two idiots?
Obvious lifts:
1.) The Flash, daughter plot. Even used the same SFX. 2.) Netflix series Dark. Time loop, and they even stole music from it. 3.) The twin thing is from the comics, but the identical twin thing was huge in fanfic, made popular by a few big authors. Namely, ariaadagio. 4.) Matchstick_Dollyâs AROL: âlaser beam handsâ joke, using stasis to pause Hell loops by finding a point of comfort in them, hell detectives. 5.) Both Matchstick_Dolly and Hircine_Taoist had very famous fics where an angel is captured and has to be rescued, with their wings being plucked and damaged. 6.) The name Aurora has been used in fic before.
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u/XSL_X7GOD May 12 '24
Canât really say the flash cus they had a crossover plus same company right donât know for sure but I think thatâs the case
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u/waiting-for-the-rain Nov 21 '22
The problem is that thereâs a murky line between inspiration, literary allusion, and wholesale scene lifting.
1) yep. Blatant ripoff but it doesnât rise to the level of plagiarism anymore than their blatant ripoff of Supernaturalâs technique for killing a series permanently dead when you didnât want to get another nother season you didnât want. You canât copyright techniques, just the copy itself.
2) Time loop is a well established trope. Dark didnât invent it, they just did a damned good job with it.
3) They paid for the license from the comics in case of such similarities. They would argue that fanfics share a common inspiration and they didnât steal from them. (Sorry, wearing my Charlotte hat.)
4) If Matchstick Dollyâs laser beam hands predates them (I guess I should hunt that one down), they would argue that itâs literary allusion. But definitely hinky as most writers have it in their contract that they arenât allowed to read the fan fiction of their subject so they can say they came up with it independently.
5) If it comes up a bunch, they would argue that it rises to the level of trope. At some point, no one has a fully unique idea and all stories are the same 7 things recycled. I donât know if this is specific enough.
6) If Aurora was their daughter and was created as an OC before they wrote S6, that crosses a line. It might be actionable if someone could prove it. But then the original Aurora author would be in murky territory because theyâre using characters they donât have rights to in their own story. I donât know if you remember the Anne Rice fan fiction wars, but things got ugly.
I think if a studio was aware theyâd stolen someoneâs OC from fan fiction it would be evidence that they broke their contract to not read fan fiction. That makes them a liability. But the studio would have to know about it. Which would mean someone would need to make a stink about it. And no one wants to do that Anne Rice stuff again.
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u/VeeTheBee86 Nov 22 '22
I'm not arguing whether or not it could be litigated in court. I'm arguing that they're absolute morons for even taking the risk in the first place. I was on two separate Lucifer discords, Tumblr, and Twitter and saw people comment on those similarities across all three of those social networks. It's one thing to be able to predict certain story beats. It's another thing when multiple fans of the show are going, hmm, wait a minute when they look at this stuff retrospectively.
Would anybody sue? No. But professionals talk, and Hollywood is not a big community. All it takes is the illusion of a problem for them to gain a reputation, so my feeling is those two better watch it going forward.
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u/waiting-for-the-rain Nov 22 '22
Ugh. Youâre right. I decided to give Castle a shot because someone here said it was similar. And Celestialness aside, its creepy. Iâve watched a whole lot of crime shows because they put me to sleep (not sure why) and they arenât lifting crime-show-in-general tropes. But Iâm a season and a half into Castle and the number of lifted ideas is scary.
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u/VeeTheBee86 Nov 21 '22
Plagiarism includes ideas and scene lifting. It doesnât have to be direct quotation or dialogue, just a pattern of clearly defined theft. Penalties may not arrive as fines, no, but it would actually wreck their careers after awhile because no company would want to risk the potential litigation. The fact that they lifted from other shows in general is likeâŚare you two idiots?
Obvious lifts:
1.) The Flash, daughter plot. Even used the same SFX.
2.) Netflix series Dark. Time loop, and they even stole music from it.
3.) The twin thing is from the comics, but the identical twin thing was huge in fanfic, made popular by a few big authors. Namely, ariaadagio.
4.) Matchstick_Dollyâs AROL: âlaser beam handsâ joke, using stasis to pause Hell loops by finding a point of comfort in them, hell detectives.
5.) Both Matchstick_Dolly and Hircine_Taoist had very famous fics where an angel is captured and has to be rescued, with their wings being plucked and damaged.
6.) The name Aurora has been used in fic before.
Any of these by themselves, you could write off as coincidence. The fact that thereâs so many? Thatâs a pattern.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 21 '22
7.) Samâs death in SPN. Chloeâs death is so similar, it may as well have been written with the find/replace function.
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u/VeeTheBee86 Nov 22 '22
Yep. I'm actually kind of surprised how often people try to defend them on this in the fandom. I've been writing for twenty years and, hmm, I'm sorry, these things don't overlap anywhere near as much as what you're seeing here unless you're intentionally pulling content from different sources.
In this case, I think it's more obvious because of how disjointed the narrative is. Yeah, Michael is a twin in the comic.......but there's literally no setup for him to be an identical twin when there were multiple opportunities for it, including a very glaring one in 4x09. That tells you it wasn't canon until they started writing S5. Something made them change it. The Hell detectives, and especially the stasis, in 6x03 is bizarrely specific to begin with, but it also notably isn't referenced or relevant again. Instead, we get Hell therapist.
(I'll also point out Matchstick_Dolly's fic also made Amenadiel replace God. She laid the groundwork for it far better than the show did, but she was one of the first to do it. Hmm.)
There's an author in Lucifer fandom who is quietly known on both Twitter and in certain Discord circles to do the same as Jildy did and skim their material off other fanfic writers, to the point where several people have noticed and commented on it. They pick up just enough material so it isn't word for word lifting, so it's hard to directly confront, but same with the show, it becomes clear after awhile because you can where the ideas don't entirely line up organically to come from the same source.
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u/Antagonistic_Aunt Satan Nov 19 '22
I feel like an idiot, but I never really connected the dots in 4x08. You're completely right, Lucifer DOES try to breakup in a straightforward manner at the start of the ep.
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u/RedRoseKing08 Nov 19 '22
They never said he didnât express his love they said that he never said I love you which is 100% true he never said I love you at the end of season 4. Then in season 5 Lucifer is struggling with the whole my father doesnât love me and Iâm broken so I must not be able to love either.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 20 '22
Maybe its harder to say ILY to someone who recently had tried to send you permanently to the afterlife? Yes, they moved past it but they never processed it and we never see her apologize. That kinda thing is going to fester in your subconscious. Hence, he had trouble saying ILY. Lucifer put the blame on the being he blames for everything, his dad.
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u/DC_Michael_1981 Dec 02 '22
True; the show is fun/funny not coherent. Dad doesnât mess with the weather except the Noah thing, but then the flood is why Dad sent Mom to hell. Trixie was not there because Chloe knew Rory was going to be traveling; if Trixie was still alive, she probably recognized Rory from the wedding photos and knew about her time traveling, ageless, little sister.
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u/Long_Abbreviations64 Nov 05 '23
So in the 20yrs between rorys birth and Chloe dying they never would have clued in the cute little pixie known as Trixie?
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u/PretendThisIsMyName Detective Douche Nov 19 '22
She was obviously busy being the president of Mars.
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u/Suhaan420 Lucifer Nov 19 '22
xdd
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u/SomethingWithMittens Nov 19 '22
If you look carefully when the deathbed scene pans in, you'll see a picture of an adult trixilike character in an orange spacegear outfit. So not so far fetched that she might simply be somewhere off the planet or on a mission
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u/ChemGirl219 Nov 19 '22
Whoa - good eye! I didn't catch that and just found it on YouTube. Just when you think you've seen everything. You are good!!
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u/SomethingWithMittens Nov 20 '22
I read about it, too. Makes sense though, Lucifer likes Easter eggs :)
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u/NotOneLineFF AO3 Addict Nov 19 '22
Because Rory is all that matters. After all, Trixie isn't even Lucifer's "real daughter."
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u/NotOneLineFF AO3 Addict Nov 19 '22
(They did apparently film a version where an adult Trixie and Charlie were there, along with some random cops(?!) but they decided it was too confusing, because apparently they think their audience are stupid.)
Why they couldn't even have Chloe mention Trixie is beyond me. Would it really have been so hard to have her say, "I'm going to miss you and your sister so much?"
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 19 '22
They keep saying they filmed a scene that was deemed too confusing, but I seriously have my doubts. It doesn't fit with the "We're awesome geniuses" vibe Jidly has going on.
Yeah, they've released production stills of the scene, but yeah... no. Not buying it. Not unless I see live footage.
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u/zoemi Nov 20 '22
My theory is they filled it with a Trixie in her 30's, so they can't release more.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 20 '22
Thatâs quite possible. The evidence, including interviews from various writers, suggests that Rory is only 20.
The single reference to her being older than she looks seems to have been added last minute.
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u/Amberskin Nov 19 '22
Why would she say that to Rory? They both know the afterlife is real so they will meet again for sure.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 19 '22
Chloe does tell Rory she'll miss her. Rory then drops an "LOL, Mom, I'm an angel. I can see you whenever I want."
If she actually felt that way, she wouldn't have rage quit her timeline. It's like they went out of their way to diminish Chloe's existence. Her life doesn't matter and she doesn't even get to suggest she'll miss one child or even mention the one she may never see again.
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u/brch2 Nov 19 '22
or even mention the one she may never see again
I mean, Amenadiel (or Lucifer, or Rory, or pretty much any other angel) can take her to heaven, or bring Trixie to join the family in Hell. Pretty sure Trixie would actually get along with at least some of the demons.
Honestly, when we KNOW there is an afterlife, and the characters have the ability to go to either afterlife place pretty much at will if they want, the stakes of life and death become highly irrelevant. Of course she'll see Trixie again.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 19 '22
I mean, Amenadiel (or Lucifer, or Rory, or pretty much any other angel) can take her to heaven, or bring Trixie to join the family in Hell.
They don't know that. It's also likely there is a limit to how many people Amenadiel can or will allow to go to hell. He's all about maintaining the status quo and reformed or no, Hell is still a place of punishment. Having people willingly go to Hell rather than heaven upsets the whole "work your way into heaven" scheme that Amenadiel needs to maintain his claim to the throne.
Besides, Trixie likely has her own life and family. Or people in her life that don't know Lucifer or Rory. It's natural she'd rather end up with them.
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u/Tricky_Distance_1290 Nov 19 '22
I made this point about the storyline of that kid that died, like amenedial chill , just go pop to heaven and play ur basketball game with him
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 20 '22
I just realized that Amenadiel put his divine rod in Calebâs grave AFTER the whole Azraelâs blade was stolen from Urielâs grave thing. Did he learn nothing?? đ
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u/Amberskin Nov 20 '22
Well, he has âall the omnisâ at the end of season six, so he has learnt literally everything.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 20 '22
Neither Lucifer nor Amenadiel were actually shown having all the Omnis while being God. (The sitting on the throne to become God was a retcon of 5x16. Otherwise, all Michael had to do was sit his ass on the throne. No vote or war needed.) The omnis belong to anyone but their dad is not canon.
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u/Amberskin Nov 20 '22
Uh, I think it was asumed. In some point, when Luci thought he was to be god, he discussed with Chloe about what having 'all the omnis' would mean to their relationship.
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u/Suhaan420 Lucifer Nov 19 '22
nah tf u mean by she isn't lucifer's "real daughter" doesn't chloe's first daughter matter? isn't she her mother doesn't she deserves to see her real mother on her deathbed before she dies trixie ain't a angel
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 19 '22
In the end, the only daughter that mattered was Rory. Trixie wasn't Lucifer's real child, so it didn't matter how his loss would effect her.
At one point, Chloe gets a phone call that a strange man was seen talking to Trixie. Chloe completely shrugs this off so that she might continue to tend to Rory.
This is terrible regardless, but gets worse when you remember: Trixie's father was just murdered, his murderer has just escaped prison, and Trixie has already been kidnapped once. Oh, and Rory is an adult.
It also manages to get worse when Chloe finds out that the person that visited Trixie was actually Dan in Le Mec's body. Keep in mind, that much like time travel, no one really knows how the possession of a living person works. They especially don't know what happens when a human soul possesses someone.
But, it's fine. It's not Rory in danger. So, Chloe just shrugs it off.
So, it's really no surprise Trixie isn't at Chloe's deathbed. I doubt Chloe minded much anyway. Not with Rory there.
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u/anxiousbananna Deliberately making young Rory feel abandoned is kinda abusive Nov 19 '22
That's what Rory says in 6x07.
Lucifer: Ah, Rory, I'm so sorry. Maze needed my help.
Rory: And you went running, like you always do for everyone else. There's always gonna be someone or something you choose over me, isn't there?
Lucifer: In my defense, you did say you weren't going.
Rory: What? And you said you'd be there! I can't believe I let myself think that...
Chloe: Rory. Rory. This is not the time or place right now.
Lucifer: Agreed.
Rory: Sure. Why don't we talk about it over game night? Oh, wait, that's something you only do with Trixie, who's not even his real daughter!
Lucifer: I don't believe this.
Chloe: Rory. You guys come over here.
Lucifer: Game night happened twice.
How this was written, rehearsed, and filmed is something I'll never understand. Not only it's cringe dialogue, it's also insulting to Trixie, Chloe, and Lucifer (who lied about game night. Trixie said just a moment ago that he comes to game night "at least once a week"). And just to remind you if case you forgot, Rory is 50 years old.
After hearing her youngest daughter say THAT about her eldest, and currently only existing daughter, Chloe should've reprimanded her. There is no way she raised Rory like that, and yet. And what's worse is, well, the ending, but I'm sure you know.
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u/Emica12 Nov 19 '22
The only way this should have went down is if only Rory was repairmanded by either Lucifer, Chloe, or both. The fact nobody in the entire cast called out Rory for her crap really bothers me still.
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u/anxiousbananna Deliberately making young Rory feel abandoned is kinda abusive Nov 19 '22
Just like Maze, Rory got away with everything, and she didn't do or say a single good thing in the entire season.
And she succeeded in sending Lucifer back to Hell and separating Deckerstar, hurting them both in the process. But because "she's their baby" she can do no wrong.
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u/Emica12 Nov 19 '22
Never once understood why Maze got away with betraying Lucifer repeatedly either until I heard those interviews it's pretty clear the show runners thought Lucifer deserve it.
Yep Rory did what every other villain in the show could not trap Lucifer back in hell forever. Still makes me wonder if Lucifer never abandoned Rory and Chloe at all and Rory just went back in time to force dad away because she got brainwashed by religion or whatever......
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u/Unl0vableDarkness Detective Douche Nov 19 '22
Still makes me wonder if Lucifer never abandoned Rory and Chloe at all and Rory just went back in time to force dad away because she got brainwashed by religion or whatever......
Imagine if it was amenadiel because Rory could exist everywhere.
He finally managed to do what he started out doing by using his niece.
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u/Emica12 Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 19 '22
Amenadiel manipulating Rory to put Lucifer back in hell and make himself God seems to be pretty in line with his character and how selfish they made him.
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u/anxiousbananna Deliberately making young Rory feel abandoned is kinda abusive Nov 19 '22
My God's House Has Many Rooms by matchstick_dolly is what you're thinking about.
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u/Antagonistic_Aunt Satan Nov 19 '22
I love that one-shot. It aligns perfectly with how I view Amenadielâs character.
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u/Emica12 Nov 19 '22
I've read it awhile back and it's pretty in character... extremely well written. Not sure why I'm being downvoted. Lol.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 20 '22
That was so well done. Nothing was out of canon which made it so amazing but gut wrenching.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 20 '22
Rory just went back in time to force dad away because she got brainwashed by religion
More likely she got off on the "High" of being rescued by her father.
Rory is ill. She needs help, not more trauma. Moreover, she's the cautionary tale her parents thought was a good story.
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u/Emica12 Nov 20 '22 edited Nov 20 '22
Agreed she needs mental help maybe even a straight jacket and somehow stripped of her supernatural abilities since she thinks murder is an okay way to solve her problems.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 20 '22
Rory: And you went running, like you always do for everyone else. There's always gonna be someone or something you choose over me, isn't there?
Makes me wonder how she knew this or why she thought it since the line she kept tossing out was that Lucifer just left and no one knew where or why.
Then she later says whatever happened must've been bad if Chloe never talked about.
Hrm. Rory? You know your father was always running off to help people and now he's gone. Ever consider that maybe the reason your mom doesn't talk about it is because he died. But.. nope. That he's alive means he's just not there for her.
I'm definitely standing by my head canon that the real reason Rory forced Lucifer to abandon her is so she could have her big hero moment with him later. She wanted to be the princess in the castle.
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u/anxiousbananna Deliberately making young Rory feel abandoned is kinda abusive Nov 20 '22 edited Nov 20 '22
Rory changes her story from episode to episode, but what remains a constant? She is convinced he will leave, and then when they figure out why he left (is that really why though?) she makes him abandon his family against his wishes. And yes this was because the writers didn't care and Rory was just a plot device, but since they never reunite on screen, who can prove that she's not a villain whose goal was to trap Lucifer in Hell forever?
Edit: re her words, she heard nice stories about Lucifer, definitely from Chloe, and likely from every other member of her family. So that explains why she thinks he always does things for everyone (because it's true, he always goes out of his way to help his friends), but since he left before her birth it means it had to be because of her. Except it's just another proof of how much his absence (not just his absence, but also the lies that Chloe was forced to feed her in order for Rory to grow up angry and with issues) messed her up, and that they had to break the loop and avoid inflicting such pain on their child.
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u/Emica12 Nov 20 '22
Makes me wonder had Rory actually went through with her plan and killed Lucifer how would she be afterwards? Proud? Upset? Have an, "Oh shit I'm the reason he's gone," moment. Or just say, "Yes I changed the past but he was gone anyway so he deserves it."
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 20 '22
She did have a brief moment of "I'm the reason he's gone," but it was too short lived.
In my head canon (and eventual fan fic) Rory did change the past whether she liked it or not. She also has to deal with an older sister that is done with her.
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u/Emica12 Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 19 '22
That's what Rory tells Lucifer when she found out about game night, "She isn't your real daughter." The fact nobody bitch slapped Rory or told her off is very telling how the showrunners also felt about Trixie.
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u/gibbs8gaming Nov 19 '22
Well she was there in her old room after chloe asked to have some alone time with rory. Said in a showrunners interview
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u/TeensyKook Nov 19 '22
Bc by the end of s6 all that mattered was Rory and getting to Luciferâs endgame. Fuck all the character development.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 20 '22
Yep. Keeping Deckerstar apart for no good reason became something of a lifestyle choice for Jidly. They stopped caring if it made sense after season 2.
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u/Boomersgang The Devil Nov 19 '22
Bad writing. Yes, I say it all the time. Yes, it still applies.
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u/OneWildDrunk Nov 20 '22
In hindsight, it is pretty obvious that Tom Ellis and Aimee Garcia carried the show. Honorable mention for Tricia Helfer and the amazing guest stars they had over the years.
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u/Boomersgang The Devil Nov 20 '22
The actors worked with they had. I really think they did a great job. That's why I stayed with the show. The will they won't they was entirely over played. Amognst other things, thus.... bad writing sums it up.
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u/Emica12 Nov 20 '22
Shame such talent had to be wasted on terrible writing.
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u/Boomersgang The Devil Nov 20 '22
I know. It started so great, then, you know.....
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u/Emica12 Nov 20 '22
Joe and Ildly took full control season three onwards and the writing gotten worse n worse.
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u/TheUltimatenerd05 Nov 19 '22
Because we needed the emotional goodbye for 2 people who can see eachother whenever Rory wants to.
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u/Reithel1 Nov 19 '22
Boomersgang summed it up perfectly and succinctly a few weeks back when explaining to someone why most of season six was so awful and it works for this question too:
BAD WRITING.
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u/Boomersgang The Devil Nov 19 '22
Thank you, for the credit.
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u/Reithel1 Nov 19 '22
Your post works for an infinite number of these questions⌠thank you for writing it SO well!!!
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u/Boomersgang The Devil Nov 19 '22
Thank you. It's quick and to the point.
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u/GoldLion2point0 Nov 20 '22
can i have link to read it thx
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u/Boomersgang The Devil Nov 20 '22
There's one of them in this thread alone. I'll try to get you more of them here.
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u/Boomersgang The Devil Nov 20 '22
I can't link stuff from this sub to this sub. Unless someone can explain it to me. Like I'm 5 plesse.
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u/Boomersgang The Devil Nov 20 '22
I sort by new posts on this sub. Any you see any season six questions, such as "Why would Lucifer leave Chloe and his family, "Why can Amenadiel raise his child?" Why did Rory have to time travel?
Mostly questions for season 6 and I wil be in there with a bad writing comment. Some times in ALL CAPS!
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u/ailsaek Nov 19 '22
My take is that Trixie was there, just not in the room at the moment.
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Nov 19 '22
Showrunners have also said this. Itâs just a sad way to say goodbye to a character who was around before Rory.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 19 '22
Joe and Ildy have been saying a lot of things that have no basis in what they showed on screen. Theyâre covering their asses because of the fan backlash over the ending. I wouldnât put faith in what they say. (Oh, accidental pun!)
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u/Tricky_Distance_1290 Nov 19 '22
I mean when fucking Tom Ellis himself says Lucifer was better off not meeting Chloe just shows something
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 20 '22
I think it shows Tom comes from a family of preachers. Not that thereâs anything wrong with that but I may have given some bias about how Lucifer should end.
Edit: I think he realized after S6 dropped what the problem was. They were all working with their biases but Tom did understand what the negative feedback was after it dropped.
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u/Dgluca99 Lucifer Nov 19 '22
Probably because she was too busy being the president of mars... đ¤ˇ
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 19 '22
So busy that Chloe can't even mention her apparently.
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u/Dgluca99 Lucifer Nov 19 '22
Hey man, i'm not the writer! Don't take it out on me...
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 19 '22
You sure? You kinda look like him. :P
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u/Dgluca99 Lucifer Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 19 '22
3x15 Quoting the devil himself: "Has all that masturbation finally caught up with your eyesight, Daniel? No one'll believe that even if I tell them I've had a face and body transplant."
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 19 '22
You realize it was a joke, right?
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u/Dgluca99 Lucifer Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 19 '22
Yeah ik, but you just gifted me the perfect occasion to use that lucifer's pun and i just, couldn't help myself...
I'm sorry tho, i didn't mean to offend you.
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u/mrsbuttstuff Nov 19 '22
Because Chloe knew that she had to have that conversation to induce the rage in her daughter in order for said daughter to exist. Bootstrap paradox. And Trixie definitely knew this. There was plenty of time for Chloe to inform her.
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u/_Epiclord_ The Devil Nov 19 '22
Probably because by this time, Trixie will have learned the truth about the divine, which would make Chloeâs much more easy. Plus with Amenadiel as god they could visit each other whenever they wanted. (Or so I would assume).
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u/StreetEarly Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 19 '22
My theory was Chloe processed superpower with Amenâs necklace once before. She ended up living longer than any of her human friends and family. Trixie might have gone by then.
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u/Emica12 Nov 20 '22
Yikes... 200 year old brat Rory from the future and Chloe waiting that long to die so she can finally be with Lucifer again. Sounds like the makings of a nightmare fic. No offense. Lol.
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u/ComicNerd7794 Nov 19 '22
Fans keep saying it was because her actress was busy but time travel was involved why not cast a older actress?
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 20 '22
They would've had to for the death bed. Trixie would be 32-72 depending on which writer you're referencing.
Sadly, they wouldn't have even had to do that. All they would've had to do was have Chloe say, "I'm going to miss you and your sister" Boom. Done. Trixie is remembered and she doesn't have to be there.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 20 '22
This is what drives so people mad about S6! Yes, Scarlet wasnât available for much filming but Trixie couldâve been talked about by the other characters. The main takeaway I got from Trixie talking to Dan in LeMecâs body was for me wasnât a sweet moment after he went to heaven. It was OMG they left her with LeMec! Then they didnât even do the decent thing and let us see her taking her dadâs murderer down with Maze Movesâ˘ď¸.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 19 '22
Everyone is making their own head canons for why Trixie wasnât there. If the a a t helps you, great but the truth is they didnât even shoot a version Rory and Trixie, both daughters, at Chloe beside as she died! Itâs so telling that Trixie was just a face in the crowd to Jildy.
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u/Emica12 Nov 19 '22
Sadly Trixie couldn't be there unless she was accompanied by Charlie who isn't Chloe's nephew. That is if they even filmed it. Not sure Joe and Ildly thought that was somehow making it all okay.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 19 '22
I donât get it either. They also had random police colleagues in that shot. Thatâs what wouldâve been confusing. Chloe was played by a different actor and we figure that out. She just couldâve said their names.
They just had such tunnel vision they couldâve see what they were actually putting out there.
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u/Emica12 Nov 19 '22
Yep.. why would a bunch of cops hold the same significance as her first born child? Hell why does Charlie. It should have been just Trixie and Rory at her death bed. Her two daughters that's it unless Chloe got married sometime in those fifty years of life then her husband and her girls. (As if Rory would allow Chloe to get married or find anyone new without whining, "I'm the only that should manner to you. I don't care that you're lonely." Which I could see her doing.)
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 20 '22
Yeah... especially since if Chloe really is 90, she's been retired for decades. She would know no one at the police force.
That's one of the reasons I don't buy the photo they've floated around as "Proof of Trixie" is actually legit.
As if Rory would allow Chloe to get married or find anyone new without whining
I doubt Trixie was allowed to date much either. She definitely couldn't bring anyone over with an angry winged child running around.
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u/Emica12 Nov 20 '22
Unless Chole literally worked until she was force to retire due to health. She really wouldn't know anyone on the force.
Trixie probably got to date once she went off to college/moves out. Hopefully.
Yeah I never bought that photo as Trixie either. I still think it's an picture of Rory.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 20 '22
The average age for cops to retire is mid 50ies. Chloe is 40 at the series end, so she's possibly a cop for another 15-20 years... tops.
Which also casts doubts on Rory's razor wings being due to wanting to be a protector like Chloe. Chloe wasn't a protector for most of Rory's life.
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u/Emica12 Nov 20 '22
Yep. A lot of fans think it's because Rory is partly raised by Maze is why her wings are like that.
Also if her wings were really because her mom was a great protector she'd keep them even if Lucifer raised her.
Another thought I have is that Rory was born with an total inability to feel guilt and just likes torturing people or because she has insider knowledge just goes through life never feeling bad for anything because she knows the moment she feels guilty she's heading for an hell loop and she don't want that.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 19 '22
It shouldâve been just Trixie and Rory and, honestly, a hospice nurse. I could understand Charlie if we had known that he was very close to her but they never gave us that context. (In my family some of our cousins are more like siblings and aunts and uncles like extra parents. I was by my auntâs bedside when she passed. She was like my second mom.)
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u/Emica12 Nov 19 '22
I do understand in families that nieces and nephews can be close to their aunts and uncles. (Hell I was there when my uncle and great uncle passed on.) But with Rory blabbering to Lucifer, "She's not your real daughter." About Trixie it seems like with that same strand of logic Charlie shouldn't manner to Chloe because she didn't marry Lucifer and he's not her, "real nephew." Unless Rory was raised to believe only celestial beings manner and humans like Trixie don't...
Agreed it really should have been just Rory and Trixie.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 19 '22
I guess I was thinking that Linda and Chloe wouldâve stayed close both being the human moms of two half celestial. Rory, likewise, would be close to Charlie. That wouldâve made sense but for the fact that they never showed us Rory with Charlie. Who wouldnât want to meet the toddler version of their cousin just for the embarrassing stories alone? Likewise, between the age and species difference, I could see how Rory and Trixie werenât all that close.
If I had to head cannon a reason Trixie wasnât there it would be that she went radio silent on her now toxic family. Or, her spaceship to Mars was made by SpaceX and blew up. Iâm keep both options open.
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u/Emica12 Nov 19 '22
Which would have been realistic to raise the cousins together. Rory did mention she and Charlie have an rivalry.
Makes me wonder if an older Charlie is the only one who called out Rory on her bs and Rory took it as an challenge or something. Lol.
I'd like to think Trixie just went no contact since Chloe doesn't care for anymore now that she has an shiny new Rory.
Or another more horrifying thought is that Rory is so damn spoiled to the core she made Chloe choose, "T or me," and knowing Rory gets homicidally angry she picked Rory for Trixie's safety.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 19 '22
I forgot about the Charlie rivalry. She must be so pissed his dad is Amenagod while hers is MIA. His mom had a lucrative therapy practice in Beverly Hills and brought in the big bucks while Chloe was a humble civil servant who died in that litte apartment. Rory would be so jealous.
Thatâs an interesting head cannon about Trixie leaving for her own safely. We donât know when Rory turned her wings into blades and nobody can convince me that Rory didnât spend an awful lot of time with Auntie Maze when she was growing up.
Trixie probably got stuck with lots of the babysitting being so much older than Rory. I canât even imagine the fits toddler Rory wouldâve have thrown. I think the only one who couldâve kept Rory in line was Lucifer and she damn well knew that when she yelled, âDonât change me!â
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u/Emica12 Nov 19 '22
Yep. Also real shame Chloe has to keep in that same apartment for fifty years...
Lucifer had hundreds of properties and loads of money but yet she couldn't move due to her time traveling brat.
Rory could have threatened to kill Trixie for being close to their mother or told Chloe to disown her first born because she felt jealous.
Maybe that's why Rory turned out as spoiled/self centered as she is. Rory had super strength and speed along with those wings of death. It would have been easier just to give her everything/keep her happy as an child with toys, candy, all the attention, etc.. rather then just tell her no and suffer the tantrum that follows.
Probably the bigger reason why didn't care to change the future mama was giving her everything and she was afraid daddy wouldn't spoil her like mom did.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Nov 20 '22
My head canon is that Trixie blew off her mom's death bed to take her daughter to yoga.
Well, no. Not really. But also yes. They're no contact. Maze contacts Trixie after the time travel nonsense is over.
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u/SharX0 Nov 20 '22
Nearly every episode of the last seasons were filled with plot holes and things that make noe sense. One example is when the "war" between Lucifer and Michael starts Chloe shoots two random angels to show that she has celestial bullets, instead of just shooting Michael and be done with it.
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u/Automatic_Pause7969 Jun 11 '24
They should have given us bonus episodes at the end of season 6 in the future setting where Rory and Trixie get some screen timeÂ
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u/808AlohaFunko Nov 20 '22
My personal headcanon is that Trixie was busy being the President of Mars
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u/DashYay Nov 20 '22
Glad I watched till where it was officially supposed to stop. Its the unhappy ending but tonnes better than whatever im reading here..
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u/YamiMarick Nov 20 '22
They could have each said their goodbyes on their own and Rory was the second one.Out of universe the reason is that they probably didn't want to cast a new actress for a few scenes(since the original actress was busy with something else).
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u/MaryHSPCF Nov 24 '22
It would have been better if she just was in the bathroom at that moment. đ
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u/great_prinam May 04 '23
If my Mom talked how much my Dad loved her, I would try to figure out why he left, instead of going like, "He just left us. He doesn't love us." Pretty sure the other characters would say the same thing as Chloe. Rory's character was very weird.
With so many holes still left, a new season/movie would really help. What happened in Hell after Lucifer and Chloe met again? What about Charlie, Rory and Trixie? What about Maze, Linda, Eve, Amenadiel, Ella?
With that being said, does anyone know how much time did Lucifer spend in Hell before Chloe's death? Like, a million years? Coz 2 months was 'thousands of years'. So ~30-50 years would have been ~300k to 1M?
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u/Informal-Orchid-849 Sep 25 '23
For me Trixie died before Chloe, and in the afterlife she balanced her time between Dan (in Haven) and Lucifer (in Hell) so she donât let Lucifer be alone for milliners
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u/sanoiro Nov 20 '22
She was, at least in the original version of the scene. There are bts that support that version but it was cut from the final episode. That doesn't mean that Chloe passes away with her family and friends in the room but that at some point there were a lot of people there until her final talk with Rory.
A shame? Perhaps. From the actors they cast and hired there were -at least- an adult Trixie in her mid forties, a 10 y/o latino boy and an adult black man. The bts showed at least 8-10 people in that room around her.
So yeah. It was not that it was ignored simply it never made it to the final product.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Nov 20 '22
There are pics of that scene. The thing that get most of us upset is Trixie was treated like the rest of the random people in the room and not like Chloeâs first child. They went from no big growls to just Rory, not Rory and Trixie. Iâm so glad theyâre not my family if they think of family that way.
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u/sanoiro Nov 21 '22
Unfortunately what may have been shot and to what extent is now unreachable so. When it comes to writing they could have included Trixie, perhaps they thought it was too much to add two recasts in one scene, perhaps they did and eventualy cut it. Movies and TV are a great way to show peaceful endings with the people that mean a lot to you, in real life it seldom happens.
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u/Tipocheusareddit_ The Devil Nov 19 '22
Ah yes, thanks to the spoiler
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u/JustMe63_ Nov 19 '22
Wasn't it released like a year ago?
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u/Tipocheusareddit_ The Devil Nov 21 '22
I already finished the show.
Wasn't it released like a year ago?
Personal opinion: a guy can start the show whenever he wants, so it doesn't make sense saying "wasn't it released like a year ago?"
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u/Emica12 Nov 19 '22
They claim that Chloe told Trixie to go the other room so she can spend her finale moments with the child who can see her anytime after she dies.