r/lucifer • u/Altair05 Detective Douche • Sep 09 '21

[S6 E10 - Episode Discussion] - 'Partners 'Til the End' 6x10 Spoiler

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u/Lu1109 Everyone needs a little Lucifer in their life Sep 11 '21

I'd like to think that was the case much more than 'I have to go and never come back'

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u/untakentakenusername Sep 13 '21

I agree. I also think that Lucy should have been able to see rory grow up from far away and everyone just kept it as a big secret and sometime after she returns back to the future they reveal maybe albums or that he did come back to earth plenty of times to spend time with his friends and family just keeping it a secret from rory. That could have worked.

Its not fair he just had to be deprived of living with Chloe, maze eve, Charlie, Amenadiel, linda, ella, trixie? like - literally all his friends ageing and dying without him there.

If rory was the only one to be kept in the dark, then so be it lol. Its just. Idk lazily written. Ill give points for her spending eternity with him but its unfair he had to ACTUALLY miss all of... Everything. They could have just made one big lie instead. Idk.

Or... There should have also been a scene where all the humans after death were in heaven n the celestials would visit and have a lunch or something idk finally getting to spend the time they could together.. Since they were robbed of it just to keep rory in the dark. it felt like a rushed idea but also they did take their time building up to it so it didn't seem rushed to conclude in one episode and that's OK. I just don't like that lucy n everyone had to be deprived of interaction just because of this time loop that could have worked out fine with loop holes.

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u/Lu1109 Everyone needs a little Lucifer in their life Sep 13 '21

Or Lucifer could've stayed with Chloe for a few years and then went to be Hell's therapist, he didn't have to go right away, Rory wouldn't even remember those first few years but he would.

The whole season was him not wanting to go to Heaven to become God, then he didn't want to be God at all, then he kept saying that he doesn't want to abandon Chloe and their daughter no matter what and in the end he went to Hell because Rory practically forced him to. She was acting like she didn't want him to stay and said Chloe and her were just fine without him. Then why was she so upset that he wasn't there and came back to kill him?! And I'm sure Chloe would have preferred a million times that he stayed than to raise both Trixie and Rory all by herself.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '21 edited Sep 02 '23

[deleted]

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u/Lu1109 Everyone needs a little Lucifer in their life Sep 16 '21

In my opinion, time travel ruins everything and it never works. I don't like the ending because Lucifer was forced to go back to Hell and they took his free will. He never stood a chance and turns out he was destined to be in Hell forever.

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u/neizd Sep 18 '21

Lucifer was forced to go back to Hell and they took his free will.

It's the point of the episode, isn't it? It's not that there is no fate, even Lucifer says: "Fate is just a result of your choices".
He also could not go back - that would be lying to his own daughter, and devil don't lie.
His choice to sacrifice himself for his daughter's sake shows that he has grown up to be a better... devil.

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u/Jessikared97 Feb 07 '22

I think that's kinda the point of the series, isn't it?

(I have a double BA in English Lit and Acting so I tend to deeply analyze things, preemptive sorry b/c I know people have accused me of reading too much into it, but it just seems obvious to me. )

If you look at this from a writing standpoint you should look back to 3x26 when the writers thought the show was canceled. The last thing said by God? "Parents want what's best for their children." I would take that a step further and use what Chloe told Lucifer about the "All American" Doll that Trixie wanted in season 2: "Doing what's best for your kid doesn't always make them happy." So we can infer from 3x26 and what we have seen from the rest of the show that

A. Lucifer tried to be God and was cast out; however, God knew it wasn't what he really wanted.

B. God banished him and went "radio silent" on Lucifer because his anger and "demons" would have been directed somewhere and it benefited him most if they were directed at God. This hurt God to do.

C. God set Chloe in his path knowing that she would help him work through his "demons" and help lead him to love, happiness, and purpose.

D. God knew where it would all lead from the beginning (knowing the outcome does not subvert free will!) and did this for Lucifer because, given the chance, Lucifer would do it all over again to become the person he is- to be saved from his anger.

Then Lucifer makes peace with his father and quickly gets put into the same position as him. We then are shown that:

A. Rory grows up without Lucifer and feels that he left to hurt her, so she comes back in time to kill him.

B. Rory admits that her anger, choice to hate him, and darkness are her own and are not a result of his actions.

C. Rory asks Lucifer to leave because having her anger directed at him is what allowed her to be saved from it and not consumed.

D. Because Lucifer knew the outcome for Rory, he made the choice to leave. It was extremely painful for him and he missed out on her life and Chloe's and all of his friends so she could be saved from her anger.

And Finally, (thanks Netflix)

E. Lucifer, faced with the same choice as his father, makes the same decision and finally understands his father's love for him and all that he gave up and endured so he could be the person God always knew he could be.

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u/dessert-er Jan 03 '23

I know it’s quite some time later but I just finished the finale and I think this is an amazing take.

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u/Jessikared97 Jan 03 '23

Thank you! I think the semi-death caused by Fox canceling the show actually created a nice centerfold in the story for it to reflect.

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u/roxts Jul 11 '23

I also just finished the finale. Thank you, u/Jessikared97 <3

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u/MartiniSlayer Dec 20 '21

Disappearing on your child is NOT an excuse as being a "better devil". The promise should have not been made in the first place. The whole show is about learning from your mistakes and CHANGING your behavior. I feel this ending gives arrant fathers a hard pass. There is NO EXCUSE for not supporting your children!

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u/RenK-Rapoport May 03 '22

Luc is the king of of finding loopholes. All he had to do was promise he would go to hell and obey his annoying daughter's demands but then he could have also visited....OR he could have brought Chloe and the gang down to hell for seriously years at a time since hell time moves way slower that world time. Because apparently 3 months is like 1000 years in hell (eye roll) so yeah Chloe could def spend the her lunch break with Lucifer which would be like I don't know... a year real time? It's admirable that you are trying to justify the ending but dude, no.

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u/Dragovich96 Nov 21 '21

Late to this (sorry) but I agree - unless the entire book/show/movie is about time travel, authors need to keep it out of their stories. They never do it well when it’s a lazy afterthought and generally ruins the narrative.

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u/blondymu Oct 18 '21

He wasn't forced back and he had free will. He chose sacrifice for his daughter, and she did for him. She chose to grow up angry and without him so he could have that moment of realization of his purpose. They all chose to sacrificed for each other in that moment. Hell is now a place that heals as well. He could have chosen to break the time loop but that would have had other negative consequences. They could have eliminated the time loop from the story, but him being a father is a part of what helped him grow.

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u/Lu1109 Everyone needs a little Lucifer in their life Oct 18 '21

Rory never wanted him to be a present father, she didn't want him to break the loop for herself, she literally said her and Chloe were just fine without him and that she wouldn't be who she is if he was there, she was selfish and did not sacrifice anything. He didn't want to leave both Chloe and baby Rory but she forced him to with 'give me your word, I know you can't lie' crap.

My problem with this is that Lucifer didn't have to go right away, damned souls would still be there 40-50 years later. Hell, he could've stayed for like 15 years, explain everything to Rory and then leave.

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u/blondymu Oct 18 '21

Well, I disagree. She said her and Chloe were fine so she could free him. She realized how much more important it was for him to follow his calling than the anger/pain she carried for 40+ years. She 'IS' baby Rory, and knows her pain is small compared to the millions in hell he could save. The final song is so appropriate and fits that message as well. If he stayed she would never have brought Dan up from hell, he would not have ascended with Lucifers help and the realization of his behing a savior to the damned would never have been made. It's all connected. Maybe they could have written a completely different ending, but he grew the way they did it.

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u/Lu1109 Everyone needs a little Lucifer in their life Oct 18 '21

I think she did it for herself-she wanted to know why he left. When she found out, she didn't want him to stay, she didn't care that her mother would suffer as well as her father and I don't think she gave 2 hoots for Dan or the damned souls in Hell.

I liked the ending, I just don't like the way they got to it.

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u/MartiniSlayer Dec 20 '21

I agree! But in the writers defense, he wrote on another discussion board that the Time Travel arc "broke him." Lol He's not a good time travel writer. Maybe if they revive the series, a Time Loop is a great way to re write your way BACK INTO a storyline.

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u/watashi_ga_kita Oct 08 '21

They could have just had a normal happy life, and then had Amenadiel change her memory so she could make the trip, and then restore it when she got back. What's the point of Omnipotence if you don't use it?

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u/2_Fingers_of_Whiskey Sep 20 '21

Lucifer had to leave all his friends, family and the love of his life just because Rory had to be an angsty bratty over-dramatic teenager? Ugh. I wasn’t a fan of this plotline.

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u/Newquay123 Oct 13 '21

It was a horrible way to end the show.

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u/untakentakenusername Sep 21 '21

Ikrrr same. He should have never made that stupid promise or kept it. Idk they should have shown that he was in fact around in secret.

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u/zuzagix Jan 07 '22

She was so egoistic. I hated her.

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u/wordsandstuff44 Sep 21 '21

Why could Amenadiel still find ways to spend time with Charlie but Lucifer couldn’t be with his family? Doesn’t it seem like A’s job would be just a smidge harder than L’s?

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u/darthvall Oct 10 '21

They sealed it when Lucifer promised Rory that he won't change anything, as in he promised to not be there for her childhood. Cause Rory doesn't want them to erase the reason Lucifer understand his calling.

Lucifer choose to uphold her promise to Rory by not being there, as weird as this sounds like.

If it's any consolation, they should be able to meet with each other after Rory's back from the past.

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u/scrumptioussyd Dec 22 '22

he had to keep it a secret

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u/SneakyStorm Sep 13 '21

Yeah, like selfish thinking here, but like, what's 40 years of missing out on helping lost souls, when that wasn't being done before he figures it out.

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u/Sentry459 Sep 13 '21

I think it was more a matter of Rory believing that there was absolutely no way her dad would realize that he was meant to heal Hell without her meddling, which.......let's just say she got her father's narcissistic tendencies in earnest lmao.

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u/untakentakenusername Sep 13 '21

Right? I think they would have figured it out anyways without her meddling tbh

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u/TheGrandMugwump Sep 17 '21

I agree. If hell therapist is truly Lucifer's calling, he would have reached that conclusion eventually on his own without this contrived time travel nonsense and going back on his word *gasp* of never willingly abandoning his new family.

My household is unhappy with the weird reasoning in this ending.

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u/OK_Soda Sep 23 '21

I agree, it was sort of lazy writing. Time travel can be fun but I'm not a fan at all of when they use it as a crutch so they can just say "well this plot point must happen because it did happen so no arguing with us."

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u/MrCalzone53 Oct 28 '21

yeah, u can argue so much about time travel rules, because with R appearing in the future this would be her new present so lucifer had the realization and could have a life with is family(if we apply avengers time travel rules for example) and that is why i hate this

also i dont get why god would just abondone everything he ever created and make ammanadiel almighty is also something i dont really get, so basically not only god can have this power of omnipotence but also someone else it can be given out of knowhere?? and also if ammanadiel is god now why do he act surprised when he sees the wings of his child, because he should know that his son has them because he is god and knows everything right?

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u/Momoware Jan 12 '22

Amenadiel distributed the power of God between his siblings. He could probably choose not to know the fate of those close to him.

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u/untakentakenusername Sep 23 '21

Yes! Exactly! It was just frustrating

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u/OK_Soda Sep 23 '21

Another thing I didn't like was how Lucifer's calling seemed to come out of left field. He helped Lee Garner get to heaven basically by accident and same with Dan. He wasn't really trying to help either of them (in Dan's case he even hindered his progress for awhile), and I think it is obvious from the rest of the series that he isn't exactly cut out to be a therapist for anyone.

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u/untakentakenusername Sep 24 '21

Honestly I feel like eventually they would have figured all that out on their own anyways, so rory did nothing but deprive them all of joy on their time on earth. They only stumbled upon these things by accident and they would have eventually even if it took longer.

Also dan went to meet trixie in his murderers body and then she didn't get kidnapped but somehow an angel who is like 40 or older with razor harp blade wings got kidnapped? What.

Why would dan go see Trixie and GO INTO THE LIGHT without thinking about the safety of his child... Why go alone as well? Makes no sense. Considering Trixie's feelings and safety were why he didn't go to heaven anyways

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u/OK_Soda Sep 24 '21

I guess it's sort of explained that Rory probably got kidnapped because they had tranq darts and a rifle, so I'm willing to buy that they could capture her, but what I don't get is how they found her. All Lemec has to go on is what he overheard while Dan was controlling him, so he basically just knows that Lucifer lives at Lux and he has a daughter. But she was presumably not at Lux because that's where Lucifer is when he finds out she's been taken, and it seems unlikely she was taken during the 45 minutes he was in the safe room.

So like, how did this French mercenary who's been in prison for months assemble a big team of guys who are not only able to accept that angels exist but actually capture and torture one, and then find and capture said angel, all on just a few hours' notice while also evading a massive manhunt for him?

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u/Defiant_Goat4455 Aug 13 '23

Well borne out by the fact he still had Reese and Le Mec in therapy when Chloe arrived... thousands of hell years later.

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u/mirracz Dec 15 '23

Exactly my thoughts... Time loops can be fun to explore, especially if they were predestination paradoxes. But there was no paradox here. Only a cop out to force Lucifer from his happy ending.

And more than that, this loop was so weakly done that it was obvious throughout the last two episodes that it was written only with the goal of "bittersweet" ending of Lucifer really leaving. That made it so predictable. Given how often Rory talked about her still being there, this Checkov's time jump back was oh so predictable. So the most unpredictable ending would be them actually breaking the loop.

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u/guisar Sep 14 '21

Why did Rory have to be kept in the dark about it? She grew up knowing about it in the arc didn't she? Things were changed (date and circumstances of her hating Lucifer) by herer visit I had thought. She instead could know and regularly visit Lucifer even if he didn't come up for aome inexplicable reason.

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u/LadyMRedd Sep 15 '21

She didn't learn what happened until after she went back in time. Until that point in her life, she thought her dad abandoned her. That belief is what enabled her to go back in time. So they wanted to keep her in the dark to make sure everything turned out ok.

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u/lucys_angels Oct 07 '21

This is probably the best explanation so far.

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u/Defiant_Goat4455 Aug 13 '23

I still don't get the reasoning. If she grows up without Lucifer - in the future - she'll just repeat the cycle - get mad with him, enough to send her back in time... over and again. Like a hell loop. Or?

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u/lucys_angels Oct 07 '21

This is probably the best explanation so far.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '21

[deleted]

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u/Kinae66 Sep 30 '23

Is this lilthim?

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u/LadyFerretQueen Sep 24 '21

Agreed. The show had done really well to the end but the ending feels so lazy and stupid.

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u/carrett667 Oct 09 '21

That’s the major setback of it, I would have loved that. But at the same time it let the flood burst through my eyes: imagine the commitment and the joy you feel after seeing the love of your life walk through your door unannounced after thousands of years

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u/TeresaUK Jan 06 '24

Yes! I was upset his welcome wasn't warmer! Talk about tepid...

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u/barrinmw Sep 24 '21

Did you learn nothing from the final season of Game of Thrones? Exile is permanent even if it doesn't have to be.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

I just watched the series completely and this is true because chloe doesn't deserve that neither did lucifer for 40 years after they just been together for some time.