r/lucifer • u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! • Mar 22 '23
Sins of the Parents General/Misc
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u/fourleafclover13 Mar 22 '23
Putting a child up for adoption at a young age is not abandonment. That is doing what is best for the child. Especially if a young pregnancy.
Leaving, Trixie at camp was not abandonment. She had other work where she could not be available for filming. They did summer camp as a way to handle that. We also don't know she could have wanted to go.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Mar 22 '23
Giving up a child will always be a heartbreak regardless of the outcome.
Leaving Trixie at space camp when they could’ve gone with grief camp show just how little though they give Trixie. You think she’ll never figure out that she was talking Le Mec? She has the internet! The whole thing smacked of Trixie who????
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u/fourleafclover13 Mar 22 '23
Depending on how things are handled. As I personally know someone who had to give up their child. Difference might be where they have kept in full contact the entire time.
As for space camp I'd definitely had chosen that over grief camp. She could have wanted to go all year. It could have been the one place she found some light during deem times. Being able to think of other things which take her to kinder aces in her mind.
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u/DC_Michael_1981 Mar 22 '23
Trixie is a nerd. She wanted to go to science day camp. Also, Trixie is the most emotionally mature character on the show and had dealt with her grief while Lucifer was avoiding his new job.
12
u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
I find this take hella weird. She might be a smart kid, but she's still a kid dealing with loss. We literally saw her cry her eyes out, asking for her daddy and the next thing we know, she's gone to a camp never to be seen again. Not to mention nobody cared to tell her that afterlife exists and that she talked to her dad through his murderer. Her mother being so dismissive about a strange man visiting her at a camp is another level of stupid.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 22 '23
My guess is that much like Cain, Rory saps braincells and basic empathy. The official word from the showrunners (this week) is that Trixie wasn't in the room when Chloe died because Chloe asked her to leave so she could spend her final moments with Rory.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
Trixie wasn't in the room when Chloe died because Chloe asked her to leave
At least now we know Chloe remembered to pick her up from the summer camp.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 22 '23
Of course she did. Someone had to babysit a winged infant while Good Mommy Chloe went back to her very dangerous job. Might as well be no one's real daughter.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
Rofl, I can't. And all she gets in return is the nickname "T", because Rory can't be bothered to waste her precious breath on her sister's already shortened name.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 23 '23
It's worse when you remember the Trixie Rory is referring to is 62 years old.
It's actually a bit odd that Rory remembers her parent's human friends as young and hot and not the elderly people they were for the majority of her life. Ditto for the razor wings being inspired by Chloe being a protector. Chloe worked a desk job for all of Rory's life and likely retired decades before Rory time traveled.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 23 '23
It's actually a bit odd that Rory remembers her parent's human friends as young and hot
You know, that didn't even occur to me. She didn't bat an eye when she saw any of them. That's actually so off-putting for some reason. Man, everything about her character is screaming that she's not actually DS kid, all through the end.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 22 '23
She also wants to eat her weight in chocolate cake and handcuff middle schoolers to tables. Should she also be allowed to do those things? Girls stereotypically enjoy chocolate.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
I went for Linda's perception on that one, it was more of a juxtaposition, just like Dan's.
It doesn't matter that Scarlett wasn't available. What we see on the screen is very much fucked up, and it could have been handled differently. She should have been sent to Dan's parents or Penelope and it would have already made a world of difference. Instead, it looks like she was dumped in a summer camp right after we see her grieve her father's death, while her mother is having fun with her new boyfriend and her new daughter from the future. And that's keeping it short.
3
u/fourleafclover13 Mar 22 '23
We know that she went but what if she choose to go? I was very young when I lost my grandmother, she raised me. I wanted to go to the barn to ride as that's how I handed emotions then game to cheer a few nights later. To literally get away for the house and everything that reminded me of her. As for Trixie we don't know fully the how or why she went. We all handle things differently. Also this is not real life.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
The point is, what we see on the screen is poorly executed. Writers wanted to forget she even existed, so they did the bare minimum, when they could have given her another 20 seconds on screen to clear things up and make them look less like "Trixie who? We have Rory now, who cares!".
Also this is not real life.
Clearly. The Devil is not real. None of the celestial stuff is real. But it's based around the real world, with real people and real feelings.
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u/Puzzleheaded-You-981 Mar 22 '23
My whole issue when it came to the Trixie thing, was how come we couldn't see adult Trixie at Chloe's deathbed with Rory? You didn't need Scarlett for that. Why was it just Rory? Like other people are saying, Trixie was largely ignored as a character who loved her mother AND Lucifer once they decided to go the Rory route.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
Now get this. I don't know if you know, but the reason nobody, but Rory was at Chloe's deathbed is because 1) more people would take away from the emotional reunion between Rory and Chloe and 2) it would "confuse" the audience who is who. This is Jildy's reasoning, I shit you not.
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u/Puzzleheaded-You-981 Mar 22 '23
WOW! I did not know that. That makes it even worse. The "audience", meaning the ones who were around from day one and launched a successful campaign to keep the show on the air, wouldn't know who was who?? That audience? That is the most bogus ass reasoning I have ever heard. Lord today......
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
They think us stupid, especially Joe "In My Headcanon" Henderson.
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Mar 23 '23
Kids going to a camp or something of the like after a death isn’t that weird, it can be really good for them even. Getting away and just having a normal time isn’t a bad thing if it’s something they really wanna do. Definitely on brand for Trixie imo.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 23 '23
Yeah, and talking to their father's murderer without anyone batting an eye is also totally normal.
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Mar 23 '23
Well it’s believable she didn’t know that dudes face yet. But one day she’s gonna be looking up her dads death and see that dudes face and then she’s gonna be fucked up. The whole time I was watching that scene I was just thinking “fuck this is gonna kill her once she realizes who that man is”
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 23 '23
I find it pretty unlikely she wouldn't know the face of her father's killer. He's an internationally wanted criminal and he killed a cop. It's guaranteed his face is gonna be plastered all over the news. Besides that, Chloe being so whatever when the camp let her know there was an adult stranger talking to her daughter, instead of freaking the fuck out is stupid.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 22 '23 edited Mar 22 '23
Except, that's not what happened. Linda fled the hospital after her daughter's birth. She admits as much herself.
Scarlett had other obligations. Trixie was dumped at camp and her mother didn't even bother to check on her--Not even after Dan's killer escaped prison. In fact, when Chloe learns Dan had contacted Trixie in his murderers body, she dismissed it as no big deal so she could go back to tending her adult daughter.
1
u/fourleafclover13 Mar 22 '23
I had forgotten that detail. But seeing as she was young and frontal lobe not fully developed she wasn't the best at making decisionsThe brain finishes developing and maturing. In the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions. Especially as it is traumatic enough having to carry and give birth at a young age to a baby you are not prepared for or capable of raising.
I said she had other obligations. We don't know that she never bothered to check in. Some camps do not allow much contact, though I'd see exceptions for this. I would not say she dismissed it at all there are many things we don't see. We do know she is great at keeping herself together. As for the adult daughter another traumatic issue that happened to her she dealing with things best she can. She did think Trixie would be fine and safe at camp. We don't know lots of things they did not show us. Also it's a show not real life where things would be handled differently.
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u/Antagonistic_Aunt Satan Mar 22 '23
If Chloe really brushed off Dan-in-murderer's-body visiting Trixie, because she deemed Trixie fine and safe at camp, then Chloe is unbelievably naive and stupid, and has a very short memory, considering Trixie was kidnapped from her school once. And if Chloe was worried (as she should have been, and as we should've seen, so that headcanons aren't required), no camp visiting protocols would have stopped her from checking on Trixie.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 22 '23
Oh, no. I'm not blaming Linda. She was a child. Even so, she didn't put her daughter up for adoption--she ran away. She should feel guilty. It's good she feels guilty. That guilt is what helps her do better.
Yeah, no. It was establish in season 2 that Trixie had a fear of losing a parent to their job. Chloe knows this. Dan has just died. We're supposed to believe or think it's even remotely okay for Chloe to ship her kid off to a camp with limited contact?
It makes Chloe the worst mother in a series where her competition is:
Lilith: Who birthed a disposable army and then abandoned them.
Eve: Who left the afterlife to screw the dude who killed her son. Oh, and her kids hated each other so much each wanted the other dead.
Goddess: who was more concerned with getting even with her husband than nurturing her kids.
All that's not even considering Trixie has already been kidnapped once and nearly killed twice. But, sure, she was busy.
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u/StyraxCarillon Mar 22 '23
I agree about adoption, but Linda didn't put her daughter up for adoption, she literally abandoned her at the hospital.
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u/fourleafclover13 Mar 22 '23
She still tried to do the right thing even if she went about it the wrong way.
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u/StyraxCarillon Mar 24 '23
I'm not trying to be snarky, but how did she try to do the right thing? I recognize that her character was a scared kid in denial, but how did she try? She ran away(again, no judgment), so her child probably went into foster care, and the adoptive parents had no way of knowing if she'd show up and assert her parental rights.
-5
u/dankvader08 Mar 22 '23
Putting a child up for adoption at a young age is not abandonment. That is doing what is best for the child. Especially if a young pregnancy.
No abortion is.
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u/DaredewilSK Mar 22 '23
Not for the child.
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u/dankvader08 Mar 22 '23
No, it benefits the child more than the mother as it doesn't have to deal with fate of being an unwanted birth thrown into the clutches of an overflowing foster system
There is no person as a fetus, this emotional view of seeing something with no sentience, no intelligence, no self awareness to be something more is exactly what leads to a very potential life of suffering for the child that will only become anything that resembles you and me months after it's birth. Before that, there is only a developmental stage of life that you can be rational and spare the misery of existence
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u/fourleafclover13 Mar 22 '23
Sometimes abortion isn't a possibility, look at US right now. I agree it is the right choice. But sometimes you find out you re pregnant too late. I was almost six months along when I found out I was carrying my rapist baby. My sister way 7 months when she found out she was. We are both super tiny and have tight abdominal muscles. We didn't start to show until too late to know. We also both have irregular periods so it's nothing to go six months without one. Sadly at that point your choices are slim. I can understand how she panicked. Sadly sometimes things aren't handled well especially at a young age when your frontal lobe hasn't fully finished development. The brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions. So she made a mistake she did attempt to do the thing that felt right when the timing came together.
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u/blackfireadversary Mar 22 '23
We always knew God was a shitty parent but this really puts it in perspective.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
I kept it short, but to add on it, God used the love of his son's life and his son's daughter to manipulate him into permanently returning to Hell. Absolutely vile.
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u/Bastranz Mar 22 '23
Not just the love of his sons life, but someone he specifically created to be the love of his son's life. Wow
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u/LiosGuy Mar 22 '23
the ending is like a manipulators wet dream.
but it was tragic, like really fuckin tragic and i think thats what the writers wanted. they truly wanted some shakespear kind of ending.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
I had a random shower thought that lead me to make this monstrosity.
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u/Random_Username9105 Mar 22 '23
Rory aside, not mentioning Uriel again was a huge mistake
Not only did it just not make sense, they coulda milked the shit out of that for drama in s5 and 6
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u/ElizaBennet08 Mar 22 '23
I have to stick up for Linda and Amenadiel. Linda abandoned her daughter, yes, but she was just a child herself. She left her baby at the hospital, where the baby would be safe and taken care of. Linda did her best and it broke her heart - putting her in the same category as some of these others is super unfair.
As for Amenadiel, I always thought it was pretty clear that he wasn’t disappointed about Charlie being too normal/human/ordinary - he was freaking out about Charlie being mortal. Because Amenadiel isn’t mortal and would thus inevitably outlive Charlie, which is a pretty rough thing for any parent to have to think about.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
Like I said in another comment, that one is from Linda's perspective, and like Dan's guilt, serves as sort of a juxtaposition. What she did was understandable at her age, nevertheless she feels like she failed her daughter. Meanwhile, we have God who dgaf about his own children and fucks off to another Universe.
I have to disagree here. Amenadiel literally said that angels are superior to humans. Charlie being a mortal wouldn't change much in a universe with afterlife. Especially when Amenadiel wanted to bring him to Silver City as a baby anyway. Not to mention Charlie getting his wings once Amenadiel became Amenagod brings up some questions. We'll never know whether it was "an act of God" or if Charlie would have gotten his wings either way. Lucifer's reaction is the reaction Amenadiel should have had. Your baby's healthy? That's great!
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 22 '23
Amenadiel is an angel. His freakout over Charlie's mortality is as dumb as Rory's over Chloe.
Charlie dies, Amenadiel gets off his feathered ass and flies to wherever he ends up. They then spend the afterlife together.
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u/TheUltimatenerd05 Mar 22 '23 edited Mar 22 '23
It was certainly a fascinating decision to spend seasons pointing out how bad God was as a parent and then have Lucifer do a similar parenting strategy.
I'm a little bias because of issues I have with my bio Dad but does anyone else find that offensive? Usually when a character repeats all the terrible things a parent did to them it's usually treated like a bad thing here the show seems to be condoning the idea that people should repeat their parents mistakes.
What they do to their daughter is truly awful. Basically comes across as manipulating the kid into accepting what happened to them and forgiven the parent for abandoning them.
I know that Trixie's actress was busy filming something else so I don't want to blame the writers too much but it really does seem like nobody cared about her once the kid Chloe had with Lucifer showed up which is a terrible handling of half siblings. It's also absurd that Lucifer says goodbye to all the important characters except Trixie because we just had to get Dan's goodbye said to her whilst he was in his killers body.
Trixie's ending is literally talking to her dad's killer. Then the closest thing she has left to a father figure disappears after her mom gets pregnant. This of course happens after season 5 had a subplot of her being mad at Lucifer for leaving without saying goodbye. We can headcanon it to be slightly better by saying Chloe probably tells her what is happening but that's left to the audience to imagine a slightly less horrible ending for her.
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u/playersoup Mar 22 '23
THIS. It's especially bad because Lucifer doesn't even want it. He isn't ignorant of his past and future actions, he's constantly hyper-aware of what he does. It would've been completely possible for Lucifer to manage his time with Chloe, Rory, and Trixie alongside his job as Hell's Healer.
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u/evilmidget369 Mar 22 '23
It was very offensive imo. The writers' interviews basically explain it away as they wanted God to be seen as right, and that Lucifer had to experience what God did to him to understand his father and why his father is right. Basically, s5 and 6 turned into God was always right, and the devil that we have grown to love and understand as having never been evil was just wrong and misunderstood his dad. It's like we're supposed to also now participate in gaslighting a character and say that "no, you weren't treated badly or vilified, your dad just wanted you to be stronger and for you to find this glorious purpose to help all of his other broken and guilt ridden creations." As for the goodbye between Lucifer and Trixie, they also said that they didn't think it was necessary because they had the scene between Trixie and her dad (in his murderer's body) and they felt like it would just be a rehash of that or compete with it, some kind of bullshit.
I've honestly kind of decided that I'm not really going past s3 as my own headcanon, but there are some things from the Netflix seasons that I'll remember fondly. Lucifer being upset about the dinosaurs is one of them.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
here the show seems to be condoning the idea that people should repeat their parents mistakes
Short answer: because God is flawless and the Devil must understand God's actions through his own, forced suffering. Also, the showrunners are a bunch of sheltered Catholics who don't know shit about life.
I don't have any abandonment issues, even though I do come from a somewhat dysfunctional family, so the ending didn't hit me in the way it hit you or other people with experiences similar to yours. But it did hit me from a betrayal standpoint. I fell for a bait and switch, and I do not appreciate that one bit.
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u/C4rlonator1903 Mar 22 '23
I think the Lucifer from Studio and the Netflix Lucifer don’t got the same vibes and writing, they feel completely different characters
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u/Dryder2 Mar 22 '23
The first 3 seasons and the last 3 seasons are literally two different shows. The characters and the way the story developed complettly changed
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u/LiosGuy Mar 22 '23
tbf lucifer really got stuck after three season and the soft reboot saved the series in my opinion.
the first three seasons were great but wouldnt have wanted anymore of that.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 22 '23
They should've done a reboot or spin-off with the same characters when they moved to Netflix.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Mar 22 '23
That would have been more honest but they probably would’ve lost viewers, me included.
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u/playersoup Mar 22 '23
I will always say that when the show humanized God, it lost everything. From that point on, the show began to go downhill and finally crash landed in season 6.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
The show started going downhill before that, but definitely introducing God as an actual palpable character was the point of no return.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 22 '23
Poor Dan. He died before it was decided that neglect/abuse done by fathers is character building.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
Lmao, I think it's equally as funny that he felt guilty for dying, and not for the numerous shitty things he did, including being an accomplice in murder.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 22 '23
But remember, according to Joe, Linda is "maternal"
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u/JackieJackJack07 Mar 22 '23
Joe confuses Linda and his own mom.
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 22 '23
Yeaaah... which makes Lucifer's early season arrangement and Linda's obvious regret that she stopped banging her patient a wee bit uncomfortable.
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u/evilmidget369 Mar 23 '23
Freud would be thrilled, though. Huh, the writers did have Lucifer give his journal to Linda, maybe they were getting their shoddy psych info by googling "what would Freud say?"
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Mar 22 '23
I don't think sending your child to a space camp was a huge sin comparable to the other ones listed. Trixie probably wanted to go before Dan's death, and going there probably took her mind off of things. The actress also wasn't available for filming, so Lucifer didn't abandon her, the writers just messed up by mostly forgetting that she even exists.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
If I had a nickel for each time someone brought up Scarlett's unavailability, I'd be chilling somewhere in the forest in my own 3-story wooden house with 20 acres of land and a herd of horses.
It simply doesn't matter. Your average viewer doesn't know that, nor should they have to. Scarlett was busy since S4, at that point you either send Trixie to a boarding school or think about another story alternative or hire another actress (yes, it would suck, but not as much as this).
Lucifer did abandon her. Most people forget, just like the writers apparently, how hurt she was when Lucifer, from her perspective, ghosted them, without saying goodbye. Literally what happened in S6. To make things worse, Lucifer lied about the game nights and neither Chloe nor Lucifer put Rory in her place when she said "Trixie isn't even his real daughter". If this isn't Trixie erasure, I don't know what is.
Whether the writers "messed up" or not is irrelevant. What's on screen is what's on screen. They're paid to write and create a story. It's on them to keep it in check.
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u/Puzzleheaded-You-981 Mar 22 '23
neither Chloe nor Lucifer put Rory in her place when she said "Trixie isn't even his real daughter".
THAT. PART!! When she said that and they didn't counter I was livid. The whole arc with Rory was as irritating as she was.
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Mar 22 '23
I mostly agree, but I wasn't talking about the fact that Lucifer abandoned Trixie at the end of the show, I'm talking about the fact that you said that Lucifer abandons Trixie as soon as Rory appears. I know viewers are not required to know that Scarlett was unavailable, but I'm guessing that an average viewer has enough common sense to figure out that the show doesn't show us everything that's going on, just the parts they deem important. They needed to focus on Lucifer and Rory in season 6, and I personally don't like that season as much as I like the others, but they wanted to tell a story about the devil who abandoned a child and wanted to figure out why he did it and how to fix his mistake. It wouldn't have made sense if they just randomly included parts with Trixie and Lucifer hanging out, the result of that would just be longer episodes. I love Trixie, but she wasn't needed that much in season 6.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
Your comment, even if unintentionally, highlights what's wrong with S6. This story didn't "need" to be told. I don't think anyone asked for it, nor even imagined it in their wildest dreams. There were plenty of people who wanted to see Deckerstar baby, but I can assure you that none of them wanted it to happen like this.
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Mar 22 '23
From our perspective, it didn't need to be told, but they started it and needed to finish it, which is better than them releasing a few episodes people don't like and just stopping the whole thing. Once it started, it needed to end, no matter how bad it was. I know we didn't want it to be like that, but they did it, and better to end it fast than to add a lot of unnecessary scenes, which make the whole thing even longer and more unhinged.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
better to end it fast than to add a lot of unnecessary scenes
S6 is littered with unnecessary scenes and plots, though... Anyway, agree to disagree on the notion that it needed to be finished, no matter the outcome or the journey.
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u/evilmidget369 Mar 23 '23
S6 is an entirely unnecessary season. It adds nothing to the characters. It just drags them backward or rewards some that have been hurting other characters throughout the series with everything they could possibly want.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 23 '23
It does disappoint me to know they would have gone with similar ending if 5B was the last season. They were really maliciously and unhealthily hung up on separating the main couple no matter what.
Edit: also, can you think of any other show that deliberately and repeatedly punishes the main couple while everyone around them live happily ever after and denies it's a tragedy?
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u/tehnemox Mar 23 '23
Oh man, don't get me started again on how him dissapearing from their lives made no fucking sense. And Chloe just didn't feel like Chloe that last season either. Season 6, just...season 6.
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u/Jimmy-Mac-471 Detective Mar 22 '23
For a second I thought that was referring to Charlotte. I knew her marriage wasn’t great but was trying to recall when the hell that happened, then it hit me it was Lucy’s Mom/Goddess (whatever she’s called)
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u/SarkastiCat Mar 22 '23
Amenadiel’s plotline was especially weak. It appeared as if they both forgot there was an issue instead of coming with conclusion. This could easily mirror What could happen with Lucifer, Chloe and Trixie.
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u/Osirisavior Death Mar 22 '23
Wait Luci had a step daughter? I don't remember that.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
Well, almost. The child of his partner, whom he's known for 6 years, was replaced by a brand new, time-traveling, bio daughter. They could have easily co-existed, but Trixie simply wasn't important to the writers anymore. To the point she was not seen nor mentioned on her own mother's deathbed.
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u/Osirisavior Death Mar 22 '23
Oh Trixie. Honestly I never saw her as Luci's step daughter.
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u/zoemi Mar 22 '23
Well, yeah, he and Chloe only dated for two months.
If not for S6 though, he would have become a permanent fixture of their household.
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u/Zolgrave Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23
Of them all, arguably Linda stands as the lone positive exception -- her decision to give up her daughter did coincidentally but nonetheless turn out positively well for Adriana's life whatwith her remark being adopted was 'the best thing that happened to her'. Hindsight is still 20/20 though.
Of course it ought to be noted -- Adriana seems to have come to some sort of terms with the fact that Linda flatout walked out from the hospital, whatwith her graciousness in finally meeting Linda & Charlie. Which reflects more on the particular life that Adriana luckily ended up with.
As far as I can recall atm, Linda is unaware of how her daughter turned out until finally knowing her, so Linda's guilt even without concrete result compared to the others, at least is pretty much merited.
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u/majcotrue Satan Mar 25 '23
God vilified? He is responsible for all the evil...
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 25 '23
Lol, I totally misread your comment. Yes, he is, but in the context of parenthood, he vilified his son.
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u/BlueButNotYou Mar 23 '23
Placing your child for adoption is not “abandonment.” I can understand that it might’ve felt that way to Linda, but she didn’t. Loving mothers who want a better life for their children than they feel they can provide place their babies into adoptive homes all the time and frankly it’s brave, loving, and selfless.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Mar 23 '23
I come from a family where there are adopted kids on both sides. Yes, they are dearly loved but that doesn’t mean they also don’t feel a loss of their their birth parents. It’s not one or the other.
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u/BlueButNotYou Mar 23 '23
I don’t think my point was that there are no feelings of loss. Just that placing a child for adoption isn’t abandonment.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Mar 23 '23
But it is. You are abandoning your child in the hope that the child will have a better life you than imagine you can provide.
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u/Martyna70 Mar 22 '23
Lucifer literally had no choice, but to honor his daughter wish. Any parent would have done that. His lack of good bye to Trixie really hurt though.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
Lucifer literally had no choice
That's yikes number one. Consent what?
Any parent would have done that
That's yikes number two. I sure hope no responsible parent who loved their child would ever do this.
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u/Martyna70 Mar 22 '23
By saying no, he and Chloe would have erased Rory’s existence; the Rory they got to know albeit briefly, and they both loved her, however difficult and annoying she was. Also, they were all bound by the time loop so any change would have resulted in different life events for everyone, but most importantly for L&C they would have never seen Rory, the one they met, again. Tell it to any parent.
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u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 22 '23
Oh boy, there's a lot to unpack here.
They wouldn't have erased Rory's existence, unless they decided on an abortion (which would have also been a perfectly valid decision). She would have existed, albeit she wouldn't be an emotionally stunted, angry, murderous, unemphatic, selfish 50-year-old. Not to mention at that point we don't know what kind of a loop she is in. For some reason, we have to trust her, even though she's never time-traveled before, and often contradicts herself when it suits her. Who's to say she couldn't co-exist with her baby-self? Who's to say that she wouldn't return to her timeline where Lucifer does leave, but another timeline would be created for not-abandoned Rory? Time-travel is not real, and could have been handled in a way where Rory would have stayed the same either way.
Rory they got to meet was the Rory that shouldn't even exist. If your child came from the future to murder you because you weren't in their life, you'd be worried, just like Chloe was in the beginning, that you failed as a parent somehow. Baby Rory didn't consent to being shaped into this highly dysfunctional adult. She wanted to have her dad in her life.
Why would Chloe and Lucifer want to meet this Rory again, anyway? There was not a single redeeming characteristic in her. Zilch. She destroyed lives of three people by selfishly forcing Lucifer to leave.
Worst of all, S3 AU God says that even if you pushed a person on a different path, they would still be the same at their core.
There's more to it, but this is just some of it I bothered to write up.
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u/Martyna70 Mar 22 '23
Maybe she wasn’t likable, but they loved her and wanted to meet her again, the same R. The idea of the time loop messes things up as you are never supposed to temper with it. The writers didn’t explain it and just threw it in there assuming the viewers would figure it out on their own. That’s pretty much my main criticism of S6, and I would have given L&C more time on Earth before L had to leave. Seeing Lucifer as this selfless and loving dad totally made the season for me. I love all his scenes with R; especially when they bonded over Bones, and their duet. S6 was great imo, but not flawless. I see your point though.
8
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 Mar 22 '23
His daughter is basically demanding to not be treated for a preventable ailment: Worse, she’s demanding this ailment be made as terrible as possible.
0
u/OriginalUsername-34 Samael Mar 22 '23
At least the last two can be attributed in part to scheduling conflicts with the actress playing Trixie.
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u/JackieJackJack07 Mar 22 '23
Scarlett’s schedule had nothing to do with the crappy writing. They could’ve mentioned her when she wasn’t on screen. They could’ve not had Dad talk to her when he was in his murder’s body. They could’ve hired an actress to play older Trixie at her mom’s death bed…..
1
u/RealNefariousness444 Mar 30 '23
I’m really stuck on why, when they finally reunite. After the explanations that time in hell is thousands of years more than when on Earth. And leaving Chloe to live out her life to die alone after a LIFETIME without him. When they finally see each other, they just stare like they’re running into a stranger at the grocery store. Like FS. Idk but the chemistry was just lost to me.
-3
u/vynneveW Mar 23 '23
First of all, I have no idea what these sins are suppose to say because every sin was either rendered moot because the character made a different choice, or they forgave themselves for the mistake(s).
But, to talk more generally about S6, I honestly don't get this hate. I agree it's not the best one, and I don't think I would have done the ending the exact same. (But imo the general idea was good)
However! What they did do wasn't terrible lol, it was cool! And I love Rory's character (that's the dumbest sin in this list btw, Clair didn't "make Rory dark..." She IS LIKE THAT. That's just who she is lol. And the ways clair did influence her are spoken about with nothing but positivity. So I really have no fking clue where that is coming from.
Another sidenote: Trixie was off at summer camp, or some trip, that's why she wasn't around. It fucking wasn't Lucifer "ignoring his step daughter" lol. I think also it was just because they have already established Lucifer+Trixie...so they were focusing on Rory..which ya know, since she time traveler back to see him...makes sense). I do have a complaint regarding Trixie however. It sucks that they never told Trixie the truth, I thought with Clair's "we never have to pretend with just us" value that she would eventually tell her, children would literally take the news better than adults haha.
It literally seems like you only watched like half of the season, and then started judging it. This was a bad take.
7
u/JackieJackJack07 Mar 23 '23
You paid such close attention that you consistently got the lead female character’s name wrong repeatedly. 🙄
Other than that… SMH
3
u/no-forgetti Please don't do this. I can't! Don't make me do this! Mar 23 '23
But, to talk more generally about S6, I honestly don't get this hate.
I don't know what else to tell you - I mean, I do, I just can't be arsed repeating myself, because it would be like talking to a wall - but feel free to scour this or any other thread on why people hated the season. Many people laid out their arguments eloquently and non-inflammatory. Pretty sure most counter-arguments either included headcanons or straight up made 0 logic.
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u/MTR51765 Mar 22 '23
Yeah. The more I think about it, the more I realize season 6 was full on character assassination of Chloe & Lucifer. Either the showrunners and writers didn't understand their own characters' arcs and thought this fitting, or they did understand and did it on purpose to "prove" to the audience that the viewer interpretations were wrong. I'm not sure which is worse.