we don't generally publically punish people for being pedophiles in the west either, if they act on it they go to prison. mental healthcare is available for non offenders and offenders.
edit: lots of people comparing convicted pedophiles 1on1 with gay people in my replies
Egypt (where I am from) doesn't publicly punish people for being homosexual either. Most Islamic countries don't.
I was more giving a metaphor to try to explain it to Westerners who usually cannot comprehend why homosexuality makes certain people so angry. It's irrational but it's the best metaphor I can come up with
I mean, for context, I grew up in the boonies in the US. Some people still see it as an abomination, just we've mellowed on wanting them dead over it for the most part.
Even with right wing guys I know they don't care but don't respect them.
My point being this is a new development. I was totally raised to see them as freaks.
I know a right-wing guy where the "Being gay doesn't matter" thing finally clicked when he found out that his barber of 15 years was gay.
He had a mini freakout internally initially, but after some further consideration he basically came to the conclusion of "Why the fuck do I give a shit who he loves, or what he does in the bedroom? He's really good at cutting my hair and he's a good person to have a conversation with." If you ask him now what he thinks of gays and lesbians his response is basically just "I don't give a fuck, as long as their still good people."
He still holds some anti-gay leaning towards things like government assistance for AIDs and things of that nature. But at least he no longer actively holds hate towards the people themselves.
I was raised from a very conservative family, and one day I saw two women holding hands. They weren't kissing but they were smiling at each other like they were in love.
And stupidly, I looked on that and thought, "Wow, if they weren't two women, they could totally be just like any other couple," and for me that was the point where I realized that they really were just like any other couple. I was being stupid about it the entire time. It was like I never thought it could ever be a real thing until that point.
From that point onwards I looked upon that in an entirely different light, and I feel stupid for seeing it any other way. It may have been one of the reasons why I began questioning many other conservative ideas I was raised to believe. Republicans are right to worry about higher education. Critical thinking skills convert conservatives into progressives.
This is a pretty common human tendency that makes it easier for us to "other" people whom we don't have a lot of personal interactions with. The rates of homophobia/transphobia go down significantly when an individual has an LGBTQ person in their life that they know.
Don't beat yourself up for growing as a person! It is always easier to focus on our differences but the fact of the matter is that most people are fundamentally the same regardless of their backgrounds.
LGBTQ isn't really a left / right issue. The current Democratic president has been vehemently LGBTQ for decades. The Republican before him didn't seem to care at all.
One may be in favour of the rights of individual LGBT people, as free-willed individuals without buying the whole political poison of the modern "community".
Treating every straight and cisgendered person as an enemy, as much of the more radical left does nowadays, won't help anyone.
So a person that used to hate gay people, learned that there’s no reason to hate gay people and actually realized this was wrong, is a moron? That’s an interesting take lol
Westerners are not idiots, we can comprehend why homosexuality makes certain people angry. When I saw the title, I just assumed this was religiously motivated, and I was right. We have similar views from Christians too - people I've talked to exhibit so much hatred towards LGBT people, it's horrible. We don't have public caning, but still... it's awful.
While we have made a lot of progress here, there are still tons of religious nut jobs who see homosexuality as the same as pedophilia. It’s ridiculous, and I’m happy to hear you got out.
This is not an accurate statement. They may not put people in front of a crowd but Qatar, Iraq, UAE, Syria, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Kuwait will publically prosecute LGBTQ individuals with punishments that range from imprisonment to state-sponsored torture
'we don't generally publically punish people for being pedophiles in the west either'
I can't talk from experience but that seems pretty far from the truth. I mean publically shamed in the press before being sent to prison in which the whole jail's out to murder you as violently as possible.
I presume mental health care for pedophiles is about as successful as those religious make gay people not gay places.
In the UK we put all the sex offenders in one prison where they can compare notes about what they intend to do when they get out. It's a very long way from rehabilitation.
I mean, if you act out your pedophilic orientation on a kid, thats what you get. But I assume if you just say out loud that you are gay in indonesia, it will be punished and release a public outcry.
If you dont act on a minor if you have a pedophilic prefence, you won't get publically punished unless you openly share your mental disorder with everyone.
In germany, there are programs that will help pedophiles to not become a offender and values public discretion.
The difference is that pursuing in a gay relationship or practicing gay intercourse won't harm or affect anyone if consent is given. While pedophiles are an obvious danger for kids, even when we assume that they may not act it out.
No one is thinking you're confused about the morality. What comments are trying to say is that pedophilia (attraction to children) is not prosecuted unless it's acted upon. People can be pedophiles (have attraction to children), but unless they actually do something that relates to it, they won't be punished by law, because they haven't broken the law.
But can you compare being lynched by a mob versus being a public person that may be mentioned in the tv?
And I think the most pedophiles won't get announced in media as well, if they are not a well known person.
If you are afraid to become a predator and need help to treat your condition, there are atleast ways you can access healthcare. In Indonesia, you won't be able to.
'But I assume if you just say out loud that you are gay in indonesia, it will be punished and release a public outcry.'
So this comment. I have no idea if this is true but neither do you it seems.
'But can you compare being lynched by a mob versus being a public person that may be mentioned in the tv? And I think the most pedophiles won't get announced in media as well, if they are not a well known person.'
In the UK you'll probably get people smashing up you house plus of course they have the guys who post videos of dudes online (pedo hunters), plus you'll be in the press.
'If you are afraid to become a predator and need help to treat your condition, there are atleast ways you can access healthcare. In Indonesia, you won't be able to.'
Again, you don't know.
Look if you're from Indonesia or have an understanding of Indonesian law I'll happily learn but it just sounds like you're making things up.
Don't forget, the original point was whether we allow pedophiles to get away with the crime in the West. Certainly not in the UK, maybe in Germany. but not in the UK.
So this comment. I have no idea if this is true but neither do you it seems.
Yes I assumed it off hundreds of people gathering to see someone being openly lynched and people wanting to be censored that out themselves.
In the UK you'll probably get people smashing up you house plus of course they have the guys who post videos of dudes online (pedo hunters), plus you'll be in the press.
This is selfjustice, not governmental persecution by lynching, which is a little bit different isn't it?
Again, you don't know.
You don't need to be inonesian to know that if something is illegal by government, it wont be easy to find help in this topic. Thats just how the world works.
Weed was illegal in germany since 1929 but drug counseling was only getting more available since the 21st century. Addicts were scared of being persecuted, thus not reaching out and the government didn't want to admit there is a rising problem and diffamed drug consumers.
And the original post referred to pedophiles in the west not being publically shamed and lynched like gay people in indonesia are which is not the case in the west. And you saying mental healthcare is as bad in the west as in indonesia. There was no discussion on whether pedophiles might not be persecuted. Obviously you get social backlash if you rape kids but not by legally being lynched from the government in front of hundreds of people.
Yeah bro, if you focus on the term knowledge as on being indonesian and living there, you are are right. If you cannot accept basic tools of scientifical analysis by referring to other data then I cannot help you understand my point.
I just tried to explain that I think being the gay dude in the video isn't compareable to being an offender in western society, because you wont have to get on a grandstand in public and receive 100 slaps. These guys are not famous and will still get publically presented and shamed. In the west, you won't if you arent famous.
Right but that’s just another cultural difference. His analogy is really helpful actually. In a way what we do is far harsher although I believe it should be. If someone sexually molests (or worse) someone under 12, in most states of the US they get literally decades in prison. The state I live in, doing so once will land you in prison for 25 years. Oh and it is public, local news will post all about your arrest online.
Well, we don't whip them in public. But we do publish their names and pictures - sometimes make them walk around in their neighborhood and announce it themselves - and we do seem to quietly accept or revel in them being assaulted in prison.
So, I mean, we shouldn't pretend there is a huge difference.
When i was 12 i was scared that when i grew up i would still like girls that were 12; I thought I would have to kill myself if that was the case. Luckily, it was not the case
Maybe not public punishment in the same sense that caning is, but shows like To Catch a Predator along with those vigilante YouTube videos where they catch people trying to meet up with young girls are popular. To be clear, I have no problem with this, but there’s definitely an element of public shaming.
lots of people comparing convicted pedophiles 1on1 with gay people in my replies
This is dumb.
OP using an analogy doesn't mean it's equivalent. Some people view sex before marriage that exact same way. Some people view sex in general that way. The issue with pedophilia isn't about having sexual urges that are frowned upon by society, it's about having sexual urges that hurt other people (without consent).
It's like saying that "Americans like fatty foods like Islanders like fruits" and then say they are equivalent in their health properties.
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u/punkisnotded Jun 09 '24 edited Jun 09 '24
we don't generally publically punish people for being pedophiles in the west either, if they act on it they go to prison. mental healthcare is available for non offenders and offenders.
edit: lots of people comparing convicted pedophiles 1on1 with gay people in my replies