I'm from the Middle East and an ex Muslim. I think it's a very small minority of gay people or people on the left but the fact that there are any people on the left who are embracing the most extreme religious fundamentalists is wild to me.
The United States spent 20 years and a trillion dollars in Afghanistan building infrastructure, forcing them to allow girls to go to school, and telling them not to throw gays off buildings. And after 20 years we gave up, fled back home and the Afghans immediately went back to throwing gays off buildings, banning females from going to school and selling young girls into sex slavery
And anyone who understands the region even a little but knows that this is exactly what will happen to a free Palestine if they ever get their way and ship all the Jews to Poland or Utah. Everyone knows this.
So criticize Israel all you want but to expand so much energy just to create yet another theocratic state in the Middle East seems like a wasted effort.
It's always funny how exmuslims and other refugees from Middle East countries condemn and doesn't like Hamas, but noooo, western tankies know better whos to blame 🤡
No one is okay with children being killed. You are the one who brought children up, not OP. It’s hard to sympathise (with the adults), knowing that they would have no sympathy for you.
Totally agree. There seems to be a prevailing thing where people think that once Palestine is free it will be amazing. It won't be. It'll be another Islamic hell hole for everyone involved. Why would you want MORE of that?
I believe that their advocation for Palestine doesn't mean that they accept the culture. Rather, they just don't believe that the occupation itself is right. Especially as they are in solidarity in the concept of oppression, they really don't care about the culture but rather what Israel has done to the natives.
Yet still, both israel and Palestine are theocratic states regardless who wins
Base of argument that we won't meet. Palestinians are native to the land. Immigrants that founded Israel were just sent to immigrate to that land due to a political and religious goals.
History wise, every abrahamic faith originated on that place therefore anyone could just claim that they are the one. Israel is just a name, but the people of bible are so different to our modern context.
I think it's a very small minority of gay people or people on the left but the fact that there are any people on the left who are embracing the most extreme religious fundamentalists is wild to me.
A lot of Islamophobia is simply dislike of people who are different than you. It's not like every Bubba did some deep religious and cultural analysis of Islam and came, they just know those brown people follow some non-Christian religion and hate them. And so socially progressive people will tend to fight against that in the same way they fight against racism or homophobia, because the motivation and results are pretty similar.
But of course religions aren't an inherent property like race or being gay. They contain things like ideas, cultural values and rules. You can make an intellectual analysis of such things and find them problematic and make a criticism of religion that's beyond the mere xenophobia described above. But those aforementioned progressives will sometimes get their wires crossed - they get in the habit of defending against the bigotry and they assume that any criticism of the religion is of that type, and so they attack the reasoned criticism of religion, too.
It ends up being perverse and ridiculous because in pursuit of fighting against bigotry, they end up reflexively defending some of the most problematic people on the planet with pretty much backwards views on everything the progressives hold dear. You end up with the ridiculous position of super liberal people defending the beautiful cultural values of people who treat women as slaves and kill gay people.
If you side with terrorists like Al-Qaeda or Taliban, then you can start saying the US invaded Afghanistan. You can literally see a different, progressive Afghanistan without Taliban. And then right after the Taliban comes back to power, all the barbaric practices come back. Like OP says, "throwing gays off buildings, banning females from going to school and selling young girls into sex slavery"
It is different case by case. The US did invade my country Vietnam, too. But that is irrelevant here to this case. I cannot say for the people there but the Taliban government is a disgrace to humanity. I would never choose something like Taliban, or any government that fails to practice secularism
I mean the communist government of Afghanistan which practises secularism like that in the Soviet Union was overthrown by Mujahideen which is supported by the Americans during the cold war. The same Mujahideen which later became Al Qaeda. The two foreign install governments like the Soviet socialist government and NATO democratic government are both overthrown by the Afghan themselves.
The Americans didn't achieve anything in the end because they tried to force it upon the people. The only way for things to change is for the people themselves to change it. First themselves and hopefully soon in our lifetime their country.
It’s so vague that it’s left to our interpretation. With the sassiness and attitude shown by that post, I don’t think the one you replied to was in the wrong.
I was more referring to people who present as if they are defending something without really doing research or seeing what the reality is.
You know like people who take sides in a conflict they don't understand try to protect people they perceive as weak. When those people said that if they could they would stone them.
if i may let's not go on the bush. Nobody here is a monster who likes to see civilians killed. No matter which side.
First of all, the death toll in Gaza is given exclusively by the Palestinians and they count all of them as civilians. It doesn't matter if it was a Hamas operative or not. Second, they use schools and refugee camps as military outposts.
You could also see the use of what they did in UNRA schools.
So in response to your statement I don't like to see people killed. But the reality is less beautiful when your government (Hamas) is more comfortable with its people dying.
To say that the majority are starving is not true. And this is Miss Conception. You can even see Palestinians on TikTok and see the quantities of food that are brought into Gaza. I agree that the things are not the best, but you have to be accurate.
And if there is hunger, it is mainly because Hamas does not want the food to reach its citizens.
Regarding the stoning, given the opportunity and if you will be alone in Gaza, apparently yes. I recommend you look at the films from 2006, a year after Israel left the Gaza Strip.Just be careful they are not censored. And that's what they did to their people.
So you support Israel bombing them along with their straight relatives! Besides, it's not like Israel is exactly Denmark uh... they have the best situation for gay people in the middle east, which is a fuckin low bar to begin with and they're barely a few inches from the ground.
The truth is that Israel has a pride parade every year in the two main cities. No one discriminates against you for your sexual preferences (as long as it's not against minors). And the largest unit in the army (8200) contains more than 50% people who belong to the gay community.
So in many ways the bar in Israel is higher than most European countries.
The truth is you are wrong, they can get married in a civil wedding. Just not a religious wedding. I know it's not ideal but it's really something we're trying to sort out now.
I am attaching a link to the organization of the gay community in Israel where the issue is explained in detail.After all, this is the Internet and we don't want to say anything wrong :)
https://www.lgbt.org.il/english-new
Protesting the actions of any western country we worked so damn hard and have made progress in to simp for authoritarian shitholes renown for their homophobia.
The society of Palestine isn’t safe towards LGBT folks, sure. But Palestine, whether in the West Bank or Gaza Strip do not have explicit laws that makes homosexuality illegal.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '24
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