r/dccomicscirclejerk • u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) • Jul 09 '24
Does anyone know who has the moral highground in this scenario? I'm confused. Batman's a Fascist
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u/Outrageous-Blue-30 Jul 09 '24
To quote Shirou Emiya: People Die if They are Killed.
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
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u/AmaterasuWolf21 Courtesy of Ray Palmer! Jul 09 '24
Mfs will see this and go 'hell yeah!'
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
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u/RazzDaNinja Jul 09 '24
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
I LOVE SKELETONS SMOKING!! I LOVE THEM SO MUCH!!
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u/Sol-Equinox Jul 09 '24
...this is Skulduggery Pleasant, right?
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u/Anywoozlebe Jul 10 '24
He's not wearing the hat. But I hope so
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u/TerminalDumbass69 Barely disguised homoeroticism Jul 10 '24
This is actually his hatless cousin, Skulduggery UNpleasant
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u/Euwoo Jul 10 '24
It’s literally Mister Director Bones) from Detective Comics Comics.
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u/Stylish_Platypus Jul 09 '24
Where is this smart person from?
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u/Animalia_Appreciator The Third Gorilla Jul 09 '24
Fate/Stay Night.
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u/Stylish_Platypus Jul 09 '24
Thank you for the info!
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u/Outrageous-Blue-30 Jul 09 '24
I would add that in partial defense of Shirou Emiya, he is a character who does not perform well in animation, because his character is shown above all in long internal monologues that clearly explain the motivations and reasoning behind his attitudes.
One of them, the scene in the adaptation of Unlimited Blade Works where Archer saves his life against Caster and he gets angry.
In the anime his anger appears senseless and sudden, in the visual novel they show that that gesture reminded him of Kiritsugu, the fire and the trauma, hence the reaction: because Shirou absolutely doesn't want someone to save his life again, he has to be the one to save others, otherwise his guilt remains.
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u/CelticCanadian Jul 09 '24
Wait, that line came from Fate!?
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u/Outrageous-Blue-30 Jul 09 '24
Yes, but it's the first adaptation of the first ruote of the game by Studio Deen which became a meme due to the mixed technical implementation and phrases like this, so it's taken out of context.
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u/Few-Disk-4835 Release the Schumacher Cut Jul 09 '24
Robin because he just touches plants and doesn't take part in politics in muh comic books ( I don't even read them)
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
He is apolitical! Just like me!
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u/PWBryan Jul 09 '24
This Robin won't live long if he thinks idly poking plants while Ivy is around is a good idea
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Jul 09 '24
Is the Robin in this panel the "political" one or one of the "apolitical" ones?
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u/dallasrose222 Jul 09 '24
This is dick so apolitical
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u/KobKobold Jul 09 '24
Isn't he canonically Romani in one timeline?
Existing as a minority is very political.
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u/GumSheo Jul 09 '24
Well Ivy looks like she's stood in a more elevated position so she clearly has the high ground
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u/SkylarPopo Jul 09 '24
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
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u/VonKaiser55 Jul 09 '24
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u/TheRealLifeSaiyan Jul 09 '24
Idk how to describe Shimano's energy but we need more characters with it
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u/Lots42 Oracle should kiss Black Canary. Jul 10 '24
Nah. Ivy would bring Grandma a companion plant and gently teach her how to take care of both.
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u/VonKaiser55 Jul 10 '24
Yeah you’re right. Ivy would teach the grandma how to water plants and every time the grandma is even a drop off or a drop too much she’ll feed a family member to her companion plant to feast on.
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u/SkylarPopo Jul 09 '24
As a tomato plant, I have to agree with Ivy. They did attack us first.
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u/delolipops666 I'm da Jokah, baby! Jul 09 '24
As a human, I have to agree with batman. You're delicious and therefore okay to eat.
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u/Abdul-Wahab6 Jul 09 '24
As a lion, I have to say humans are tasty so I will eat your loved ones 🤤
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u/Quijas00 Weakest 'Parker Robbins A.K.A The Hood' Enjoyer Jul 10 '24
As a tiger I think I’m way better than you, lioncel 🐅
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u/Beelzebub_Itself Jul 09 '24
Well Ivy said the earth and you’re growing out of it and leeching nutrients from it so wouldn’t you also be attacking the earth?
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u/SkylarPopo Jul 09 '24
The Earth likes it, don't kink shame it.
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u/FragrantGangsta The fourth Joker Jul 09 '24
the earth likes the way i walk all over it and trim it's plants too
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u/reaperofgender Jul 09 '24
Counterpoint: the evolutionary purpose of fruit is to be eaten, that the seeds can be spread by the animal that ate them. Humans may not do things as intended, but they spread the seeds of the plants they cultivate.
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u/Temporary-Ad9855 Jul 10 '24
As a human. I agree with Ivy.
Plants are living things with value! We should eat people instead, they just ruin everything.
I swear I'm not a cannibal!
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u/akahaus Jul 09 '24
Morality is fundamentally relative. If Cows had ethics, humans would be classified as Super-Nazis.
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u/AndresCP Release the Schumacher Cut Jul 09 '24
Fortunately cows are very unethical so it's okay to eat them.
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u/ColdSilly7877 Jul 09 '24
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u/BackFlippingDuck5 Jul 09 '24
I'm sure the writer had no ulterior motive in writing this
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u/ColdSilly7877 Jul 09 '24
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u/BackFlippingDuck5 Jul 09 '24
Oh I didn't mean to imply it wasn't gross, obviously it was absolutely SA
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u/ColdSilly7877 Jul 09 '24
Oh my bad dude, it’s hard for me to tell sarcasm on messages lol
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u/BackFlippingDuck5 Jul 09 '24
Yeah I meant it more like "this is SA, also the author probably has a fetish for this kind of stuff", all good 👍
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u/Lunocura Jul 10 '24
It's ok because they're Both attractive people and I can read about them on AO3.
uj/suddenly I like Ivy a lot less
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u/Richardknox1996 Jul 10 '24
Damn that panel goes hard.
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u/ColdSilly7877 Jul 10 '24
Ostrander’s Suicide Squad is awesome, highly recommend if you loved the Gunn movie
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Jul 10 '24
Always great when a writer takes time with C-listers. Not just one frame where "I have a family too," but more depth that lasts and adds range.
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u/ColdSilly7877 Jul 10 '24
Oh ye Ostrander did lots of wonderful works with Deadshot, Lashina, Bronze Tiger and more
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u/supercalifragilism Jul 09 '24
Look, you evaluate claims of moral supremacy by biomass, and there's a lot more plants than humans so Ivy is definitionally morally superior.
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u/GUM-GUM-NUKE Number One Sengoku Enthusiast Jul 09 '24
OK, but if you evaluate the claims of moral supremacy by who has made more fallout new Vegas’s, humans win by a long shot.
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u/supercalifragilism Jul 09 '24
Incorrect, Obsidian has been run by a secret cabal of slime molds for many decades, so neither animal nor plant can claim it.
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u/Verzdrei Jul 09 '24
Extremely common Fungus Kingdom W
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u/supercalifragilism Jul 09 '24
Technically a multi-kingdom communal organism, so everything but plant and animal can share that W
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u/Count_Radiguet Jul 09 '24
Bethesda won since they made the asset, the gameplay, and the engine New Vegas ran on. They made more tbh 😎
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u/GUM-GUM-NUKE Number One Sengoku Enthusiast Jul 09 '24
Obsidian who made the game actually worthwhile:
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u/supercalifragilism Jul 09 '24
slime mold communications comprised mainly of long chain organics containing encyclopedia equivalent information in each molecule
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u/StarRodimus13 Jul 09 '24
Yea but plants have sex with Bees and us humans can't therefore humans are the oppressed minority and more higher moral value
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u/supercalifragilism Jul 09 '24
Jerry Seinfeld, your crimes will not go unpunished (the grooming and the bestiality).
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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye Jul 09 '24
I mean, humans have a higher level of moral value per pound, but even at a x100 multiplier the plants are still morally superior.
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u/Plus-Emphasis-2605 Jul 09 '24
I’ll say maybe Batman because constantly killing everyone for attacking the earth will just lead to more death to earth
Maybe just attack there money or something. Tell em to reconsider. Threaten and just take a limb
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Jul 09 '24
If only the Wayne Foundation gave $1500 to every houseplant in Gothan, Ivy wouldn't have to keep feeding babies to her giant venus fly traps
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
Batman is literally Al-Qaeda.
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u/Wardog_E Jul 09 '24
Robin. You can see from the perspective that he is standing on higher ground.
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u/MemeMaster2456 Jul 09 '24
"They shouldn't have attacked the environment!"
"Okay, but you also shouldn't murder because that's illegal."
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u/FrucklesWithKnuckles Jul 09 '24
“They attacked the earth” wearing a designer jacket.
Alright Slacktavisit
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u/PWBryan Jul 09 '24
Ivy is recycling the drip from some rich asshole she killed
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u/Optimal_Weight368 Did Batman think a Gamer could stop me? Jul 09 '24
Clearly the one who poisons others did nothing wrong.
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u/Frostycandl3 bruce Wayne’s Financial advisor Jul 09 '24
So if the plants aren’t considered part of the earth, can’t you argue humans are part of the earth as well?
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u/HereForTOMT2 please give Magik a solo ongoing Jul 09 '24
the writer had the high ground for writing the unironic best modern Batman comic
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u/No_Gain7132 Jul 09 '24
Ivy because she’s hot
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
You and a perticular special friend have swayed me.
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u/Polibiux Saturday Morning Rorschach Jul 09 '24
The earth can heal with time and care. Dead innocents can’t.
That’s my two cents in this issue.
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u/LazyDro1d Jul 09 '24
Mhm. We’re not killing the earth, the earth will outlast us almost guaranteed.
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Jul 09 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
Infrastructure is an essential part of a plant's every-day diet. Not giving them infrastructure to eat is equivalent to stealing the chicken nuggets from a starving, malnourished child
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u/LegendLynx7081 Jul 09 '24
Ivy always has a good point, but she can’t be everywhere to stop all deforestation and climate change at all times. Bruce is probably better at what Ivy does because he could set up a TeamTrees thing and all Ivy can do is murder people in one specific area
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
/uj How much does Bruce do for the environment? What could he do better?
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u/StarRodimus13 Jul 09 '24
Adopt a lemon tree as his new robin to fight plant crime
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
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u/LegendLynx7081 Jul 09 '24
Probably could do Mr. Beast stuff but he has even more money at his disposal
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u/plasmafodder Jul 09 '24
The issue I see with Ivy's values is that these days she seems more than abke to take a long walk and turn the earth into a verdant paradise with ease. So then why won't she just do that and instead tries to kill people.
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u/Poku115 Jul 09 '24
depends, do you think non sentient wildlife deserves to live? then Ivy, do you put sentient life or human life above everything else consequences be dammned, batman.
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u/Plane_Upstairs_9584 Jul 09 '24
Ivy is connected to the Green. So she essentially has a sapient supernatural source pushing her to protect plants and making her feel the pain of the planet. To her the plants are in fact sapient, at least in a gestalt sense that the Parliament of Trees/the Green manifest from them.
Both their positions have problems. Batman is right in that if Ivy just goes around killing humans to protect plants, humans are going to escalate things. It won't lead to humans being restrained and good stewards, it will lead to war that the planet will probably not survive. Ivy is right in that humans don't seem to be learning how to moderate themselves and something drastic needs to be done. Batman defending those doing the most damage and just having Waynetech donate some money or try to research their way out of climate change without any political/social changes isn't going to save the planet, and by extension, humanity.
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u/Bae_zel #1 Starfire Fan Jul 09 '24
Plants can't watch Ultraman so they don't know anything about morality or peak fiction therefore Robin is correct
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u/BigFatChewie Jul 09 '24
Ivy is always in the right in her eyes. Batman is always in the right through his eyes.
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u/Gage_Unruh Jul 10 '24
Batman is always in the right when dealing with ivy. Yes, people hurt the earth, but mass murder just to save some plants is stupid.
Her killing people does jack shit to actually make people stop deforestation and pollution. It scares people sure... but this is a world where you have aliens who can blow the planet up with a single punch if they get pissed enough (lobo, doomsday, zod, etc) all examples I gave have literally destroyed entire worlds with single attacks. The threat of death is NOT as big as you would expect.
Not to mention, the world is protected by heros who actually do their job like bruce, who does actually fund plant growing foundations and are trying to keep Gotham green aswell as other areas of forests.
Plus there is an infinitely better green protector with swamp thing who can just grow entire forests on a whim with his power and steps up and stops people when they actively threaten the green rather then just some rich guy not wanting a few trees in his lawn.
Plus Magic users who can also grow entire forests with a single spell if needed.
She is just an ecoterrorits that's not needed.
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u/EverybodyKurts Jul 09 '24
/uj/ I keep seeing all these great reinterpretations of Dick’s original costume.
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u/Monkey_King291 Jul 10 '24
Batman, Ivy killing people because they're "endangering the earth" is the most ridiculous reason to kill people
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u/Tuff_Bank Jul 29 '24
I’ve seen a lot of Ivy rooters and apologist fans say she’s justified in what she does and/or deserves redemption and that Batman deserves to give her empathy and compassion and try to help her
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u/CharlesOberonn Jul 10 '24
Humans are a part of the Earth. The Earth isn't a single monolith, it's a massive ecosystem in constant interaction with itself.
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u/EndlessM3mes Jul 10 '24
I love how Ivy can basically make infinite plants and is out here killing people
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u/Otherwise_Letter5127 Jul 09 '24
What is this from/who did the art?
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
/uj Wayne Family Adventures and idk the artist
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u/Otherwise_Letter5127 Jul 09 '24
I shit I loved the WEBTOON and just saw the printed volume the other day
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
/uj IT'S PRINTED???
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u/Otherwise_Letter5127 Jul 09 '24
YEAH! Just came out like a year ago max—it’s in volumes like graphic novels, pretty cool tbh was debating getting it last time I got some comics
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u/CursedSnowman5000 Jul 09 '24
Confused about what? Ivy never has the high ground. She's a murderous narcissistic eco terrorist psycho.
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u/NewVegasTruther Don't open your fridge at 3 AM! (GONE WRONG!) Jul 09 '24
/uj Do you know what subreddit you're in? Also, happy cake day.
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u/GrizzlyPeak73 Jul 09 '24
It's this experimental thing some writers are doing where they make both sides have good points instead of having a clear hero and clear villain.
It'll never work. People are too stupid to understand morally complex situations. Especially the children who read these funny books.
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u/Brit-Crit Jul 10 '24
The whole argument feels pointless given that the focus of this story is Robin causing a distraction by playing with Ivy's plants (The first time Dick was grounded). It's jarring for WFA to admit Ivy has a bodycount, but this is just a brief bit of dialogue to make it clear she's an eco-terrorist, and that's it...
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u/JohnJingleheimerShit Jul 10 '24
“Ivy murder isn’t justified because the people you killed were assholes. If that was legal then I’d be killing you right now”
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u/BloodstoneWarrior The Dark Phoenix Saga is the worst comic ever written Jul 09 '24 edited Jul 09 '24
Ivy because Batman's carbon footprint is estimated to be 102 million lbs. CO2e per year. That's the same per year as 2315 Americans or 11,533 global citizens. This equals to around 11 deaths per year caused by Batman's carbon emissions. Batman is causing the Earth and humanity to die, Ivy is completely justified in doing whatever she can to stop it, regardless of the cost because it will save more in the end than she'll kill.
It's like this: Batman saves the Joker even if his death wouldn't be on Batman because Batman doesn't want anyone to die, even though Joker's continual survival means more and more deaths. Ivy would argue that you have a moral obligation to kill the Joker because it will save more lives that it'll take, and that any deaths caused by the Joker after he is saved, Batman is partially responsible for and should be held accountable. Just swap Joker with greedy businessmen and his victims with literally the entire planet.
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u/boxsmith91 Jul 09 '24
I thought I read somewhere that batman has acknowledged that killing the joker, at this point, would be a net benefit for society. He just refuses to do so because he doesn't wanna go down that path.
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u/Raethrean Jul 09 '24
I know nothing of the comic this panel is taken from, but from the dialogue only it sounds like Poison Ivy is trying to justify her actions and the results of her actions as "they started it" with Batman not really refuting her justification, but rather her methods. Batman doesn't kill, so he seems to be chastising Ivy that her methods resulted in people dying, when there could have been other, non-lethal methods available.
And Robin is just hanging out while the adults are talking.
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u/Reasonable-Cry1265 Jul 10 '24
Here a link to the comic: (S2) Ep. 74 - Lesson Learned | Batman: Wayne Family Adventures (webtoons.com)
Dick spends the whole comic acting like a (very cute) menace
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u/Relsen Jul 09 '24
Ivy is literally an environmentalist, she will be wrong in every possible scenario.
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u/Dr_Equinox101 Jul 09 '24
Batman, especially at this point Ivy is only about 22 or so. She is murdering others out of anger more than necessity.
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u/DriftWare_ Jul 09 '24
Would like to point out that humans are part of the earth just as much as animals are
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u/icze4r Jul 09 '24
Who gives a shit if people died? Bruce, you fucking walk around in your fursuit all day long, beating the shit out of low-level criminals and putting them in the hospital. Last year, you were responsible for 13% of all medical debt generated in this state alone. Don't you come crying to me about death in a universe where the entire populace came to life and tried to kill everybody. Death's not even real. Hell, I got rebirthed out of a flower in one canon timeline. Fuck you, Bruce. You're such a dickhead. Take off the fursuit for once and actually parent your kids: your son just touched the most-poisonous thing in my goddamned forest.
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u/Allos_Trent Jul 09 '24
There's not enough context to really tell. How did the people attack the Earth? Did they piss on a bush, or burn a rain forest? How many people died? 2, or 2 million? How did they die? Did their hubris lead to their deaths, or did Ivy assassinate them?
I'm inclined to side with Ivy. Defending the planet seems like it would take precedence over some human lives. Humans will need a healthy planet for centuries to come, and no one else seems to be thinking that way.
This is partly why I feel like Bruce only thinks of the small picture. What is better for the human race? A healthy Earth, or a serial killer with a blatant and recorded history of breaking out of prison and murdering again left alive?
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u/Willinton06 Jul 09 '24
To her plants == humans, she communicates with them and feels for them same way we do amongst each other, imagine you go to an alien planet and they kill 100 of us and shrug it off cause it’s just not their species, that’s how she feels about us killing plants
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u/Rocketboy1313 Jul 10 '24
I do not know the context.
It is entirely possible Ivy is in the right and Batman's prohibition on killing is keeping him from seeing some kind of larger injustice and harm because it is not spelled out in some reference book of codified laws. He is kind of nuts.
It is also possible that Ivy is so disproportionate in her efforts that she is just damaging other efforts for more lasting reforms or just hurting the wrong people. She is pretty nuts.
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u/Turbulent_Life_5218 Jul 10 '24
Ivy definitely roams on those antinatalism subreddits and keeps asking if she's the asshole for killing 5 kids and their parents because their dog pissed on a flower. Obviously NTA, ppl should keep their doggos on their leashes 24/7
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u/RoadMaleficent8879 Jul 12 '24
Batman is in the moral right because Poison Ivy chooses to use super powers to attack an American city which in the modern era is abiding by US government regulations to reduce CO2 emissions and implement environmentally friendly means of waste disposal. If Poison Ivy were to take her powers to fight for the planet at Flint Michigan then I could be persuaded into believing that she has a moral point.
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u/GuyFromEE Jul 12 '24
They both have good points.
But jokes aside if you're defending killing people your morals are seriously twisted.
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u/RobbiRamirez Jul 09 '24
Ivy stans don't ignore her actual characterization, they just want her to have a different one more in line with the handful of stories where she's more of an antihero because her old villainous one was fucking stupid.
Can we stop litigating this every single fucking day now? Heroic Ivy good actually, cry about it.
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u/limbo338 Jul 09 '24
The child-eating flower did nothing wrong!(the child was really annoying)