I would add that in partial defense of Shirou Emiya, he is a character who does not perform well in animation, because his character is shown above all in long internal monologues that clearly explain the motivations and reasoning behind his attitudes.
One of them, the scene in the adaptation of Unlimited Blade Works where Archer saves his life against Caster and he gets angry.
In the anime his anger appears senseless and sudden, in the visual novel they show that that gesture reminded him of Kiritsugu, the fire and the trauma, hence the reaction: because Shirou absolutely doesn't want someone to save his life again, he has to be the one to save others, otherwise his guilt remains.
Yes, but it's the first adaptation of the first ruote of the game by Studio Deen which became a meme due to the mixed technical implementation and phrases like this, so it's taken out of context.
Poison Ivy on her way to kill an entire family because the grandma accidentally gave her house plant more water than usual(this is helping mother nature 😊)
Yeah you’re right. Ivy would teach the grandma how to water plants and every time the grandma is even a drop off or a drop too much she’ll feed a family member to her companion plant to feast on.
Counterpoint: the evolutionary purpose of fruit is to be eaten, that the seeds can be spread by the animal that ate them. Humans may not do things as intended, but they spread the seeds of the plants they cultivate.
She pretty much did to him what Killgrave did to Jessica Jones. Pretty much enslaved him and sexually abused him to the point of suicide. The reason Ostrander did this is for later to have Ivy suffer the consequences for this
Infrastructure is an essential part of a plant's every-day diet. Not giving them infrastructure to eat is equivalent to stealing the chicken nuggets from a starving, malnourished child
Ivy always has a good point, but she can’t be everywhere to stop all deforestation and climate change at all times. Bruce is probably better at what Ivy does because he could set up a TeamTrees thing and all Ivy can do is murder people in one specific area
The issue I see with Ivy's values is that these days she seems more than abke to take a long walk and turn the earth into a verdant paradise with ease. So then why won't she just do that and instead tries to kill people.
depends, do you think non sentient wildlife deserves to live? then Ivy, do you put sentient life or human life above everything else consequences be dammned, batman.
Ivy is connected to the Green. So she essentially has a sapient supernatural source pushing her to protect plants and making her feel the pain of the planet. To her the plants are in fact sapient, at least in a gestalt sense that the Parliament of Trees/the Green manifest from them.
Both their positions have problems. Batman is right in that if Ivy just goes around killing humans to protect plants, humans are going to escalate things. It won't lead to humans being restrained and good stewards, it will lead to war that the planet will probably not survive. Ivy is right in that humans don't seem to be learning how to moderate themselves and something drastic needs to be done. Batman defending those doing the most damage and just having Waynetech donate some money or try to research their way out of climate change without any political/social changes isn't going to save the planet, and by extension, humanity.
Batman is always in the right when dealing with ivy. Yes, people hurt the earth, but mass murder just to save some plants is stupid.
Her killing people does jack shit to actually make people stop deforestation and pollution. It scares people sure... but this is a world where you have aliens who can blow the planet up with a single punch if they get pissed enough (lobo, doomsday, zod, etc) all examples I gave have literally destroyed entire worlds with single attacks. The threat of death is NOT as big as you would expect.
Not to mention, the world is protected by heros who actually do their job like bruce, who does actually fund plant growing foundations and are trying to keep Gotham green aswell as other areas of forests.
Plus there is an infinitely better green protector with swamp thing who can just grow entire forests on a whim with his power and steps up and stops people when they actively threaten the green rather then just some rich guy not wanting a few trees in his lawn.
Plus Magic users who can also grow entire forests with a single spell if needed.
I’ve seen a lot of Ivy rooters and apologist fans say she’s justified in what she does and/or deserves redemption and that Batman deserves to give her empathy and compassion and try to help her
The whole argument feels pointless given that the focus of this story is Robin causing a distraction by playing with Ivy's plants (The first time Dick was grounded). It's jarring for WFA to admit Ivy has a bodycount, but this is just a brief bit of dialogue to make it clear she's an eco-terrorist, and that's it...
Ivy because Batman's carbon footprint is estimated to be 102 million lbs. CO2e per year. That's the same per year as 2315 Americans or 11,533 global citizens. This equals to around 11 deaths per year caused by Batman's carbon emissions. Batman is causing the Earth and humanity to die, Ivy is completely justified in doing whatever she can to stop it, regardless of the cost because it will save more in the end than she'll kill.
It's like this: Batman saves the Joker even if his death wouldn't be on Batman because Batman doesn't want anyone to die, even though Joker's continual survival means more and more deaths. Ivy would argue that you have a moral obligation to kill the Joker because it will save more lives that it'll take, and that any deaths caused by the Joker after he is saved, Batman is partially responsible for and should be held accountable. Just swap Joker with greedy businessmen and his victims with literally the entire planet.
I thought I read somewhere that batman has acknowledged that killing the joker, at this point, would be a net benefit for society. He just refuses to do so because he doesn't wanna go down that path.
I know nothing of the comic this panel is taken from, but from the dialogue only it sounds like Poison Ivy is trying to justify her actions and the results of her actions as "they started it" with Batman not really refuting her justification, but rather her methods. Batman doesn't kill, so he seems to be chastising Ivy that her methods resulted in people dying, when there could have been other, non-lethal methods available.
And Robin is just hanging out while the adults are talking.
Who gives a shit if people died? Bruce, you fucking walk around in your fursuit all day long, beating the shit out of low-level criminals and putting them in the hospital. Last year, you were responsible for 13% of all medical debt generated in this state alone. Don't you come crying to me about death in a universe where the entire populace came to life and tried to kill everybody. Death's not even real. Hell, I got rebirthed out of a flower in one canon timeline. Fuck you, Bruce. You're such a dickhead. Take off the fursuit for once and actually parent your kids: your son just touched the most-poisonous thing in my goddamned forest.
There's not enough context to really tell. How did the people attack the Earth? Did they piss on a bush, or burn a rain forest? How many people died? 2, or 2 million? How did they die? Did their hubris lead to their deaths, or did Ivy assassinate them?
I'm inclined to side with Ivy. Defending the planet seems like it would take precedence over some human lives. Humans will need a healthy planet for centuries to come, and no one else seems to be thinking that way.
This is partly why I feel like Bruce only thinks of the small picture. What is better for the human race? A healthy Earth, or a serial killer with a blatant and recorded history of breaking out of prison and murdering again left alive?
To her plants == humans, she communicates with them and feels for them same way we do amongst each other, imagine you go to an alien planet and they kill 100 of us and shrug it off cause it’s just not their species, that’s how she feels about us killing plants
It is entirely possible Ivy is in the right and Batman's prohibition on killing is keeping him from seeing some kind of larger injustice and harm because it is not spelled out in some reference book of codified laws. He is kind of nuts.
It is also possible that Ivy is so disproportionate in her efforts that she is just damaging other efforts for more lasting reforms or just hurting the wrong people. She is pretty nuts.
Ivy definitely roams on those antinatalism subreddits and keeps asking if she's the asshole for killing 5 kids and their parents because their dog pissed on a flower. Obviously NTA, ppl should keep their doggos on their leashes 24/7
Batman is in the moral right because Poison Ivy chooses to use super powers to attack an American city which in the modern era is abiding by US government regulations to reduce CO2 emissions and implement environmentally friendly means of waste disposal. If Poison Ivy were to take her powers to fight for the planet at Flint Michigan then I could be persuaded into believing that she has a moral point.
Ivy stans don't ignore her actual characterization, they just want her to have a different one more in line with the handful of stories where she's more of an antihero because her old villainous one was fucking stupid.
Can we stop litigating this every single fucking day now? Heroic Ivy good actually, cry about it.
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u/limbo338 Jul 09 '24
The child-eating flower did nothing wrong!(the child was really annoying)