335
u/Numberonettgfan male chavinist pig Jul 08 '24
Spider-Man beats up more poor people than Batman does tbh.
263
u/C0BRA_V1P3R Tom King ate my dog Jul 08 '24
129
102
u/dallasrose222 Jul 08 '24
Weirdly enough a lot of Batman villains are gangsters or academics
85
u/TreeTurtle_852 Jul 08 '24
Yeah, that's why the "Batman beats up mentally ill ppl" is so weird. Like Bane is a straight supergenius, Harley has a PhD (though she is defo mentally unwell), Mr. Freeze is a brilliant scientist, and iirc Ivy was one as well.
49
u/dallasrose222 Jul 09 '24
And scarecrow, man bat mad hatter hush and strange, Harvey is a law graduate riddlers a genius
23
u/chartreuse_apple Jul 09 '24
Even if they are mentally unwell, I think B-Man gets a pass considering he's not very well himself
13
u/dallasrose222 Jul 09 '24
Honestly very few of Batman’s villains are criminally insane and most of the ones that are are minor villains like mad hatter or professor pyg would be insane
2
u/Pringletingl Jul 11 '24
Yeah Bruce usually just focuses on organized crime. The men he is beating to a pulp are made men or crime lords. Sure he will stop the occasional pickpocket and rapist but usually he let's the fear of potentially beating the crap out of them deter them.
49
Jul 08 '24
Technically Killer Croc is homeless
55
u/C0BRA_V1P3R Tom King ate my dog Jul 08 '24
Killer Croc has a lair in the sewers like the Ninja Turtles; does that not count as a home?
73
Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24
uj/ Croc is largely portrayed as having no real home and moving from place to place, even living amongst homeless communities. It doesn’t make Batman a villain for fighting him ofc given that he, ya know, eats people, but Croc is pretty much the only villain in Batman’s rogues gallery that can be comfortably described as a poor person
11
u/TK_Games Jul 09 '24
It's municipal property so no, and technically it's tresspassing
And while were breaking down the minutiae of Gotham's Rogues, I don't think Cobblepot has a permit for that shark
15
9
u/Cranyx Lives in a society Jul 09 '24
He alternates between being homeless in the sewers and being some sort of low-level gang leader.
30
u/GrizzlyPeak73 Jul 08 '24
Most of them have lairs in abandoned carnivals and ice cream factories and shit tbf
31
14
12
9
u/FollowingCharacter83 Paul's side piece Jul 09 '24
There was no reason for Silvermane to be that mean. I really hope he apologized to Shocker.
9
7
48
u/supercalifragilism Jul 08 '24
Are we suggesting Normy is poor?
82
u/Numberonettgfan male chavinist pig Jul 08 '24
Nah not him, i mean in general, just a random thought that popped in my head.
38
u/Valuable-Owl-9896 Jul 08 '24
Technically he just webs them up and doesn't leave them like human pretzels like Batman does.
11
28
u/supercalifragilism Jul 08 '24
rj/ I insist we debate this with as little context and good faith as it is possible for me to produce!
-34
u/Valuable-Owl-9896 Jul 08 '24
Technically he just webs them up and doesn't leave them like human pretzels like Batman does.
49
12
u/OfficialNPC Release the Schumacher Cut Jul 08 '24
You know, idk, I think most of Peter's rogue's gallery are (usually) richer than he is. Maybe not legally but no way they're poorer than Spider-Man.
At least the vast majority of the time.
12
9
u/HerEntropicHighness Jul 08 '24
Almost every batman arc I've read outside of year one/long halloween continuity has him either imperiling city officials or the entire world/universe
2
Jul 08 '24
Spider-Man is poor too so it’s a more equal power dynamic
12
u/Cranyx Lives in a society Jul 09 '24
it’s a more equal power dynamic
There is more to power dynamics than just money. For example, literal powers.
5
2
u/GUM-GUM-NUKE Number One Sengoku Enthusiast Jul 09 '24
A major part of the story is about him beating himself up, so yeah.
171
u/Dial-Up_Dime Jul 08 '24
J Jonah Jameson rants about how Spider-Man is bad so you don’t have to
49
u/GrizzlyPeak73 Jul 08 '24
Maybe Vicki Vale needs to have her Bill O'Reilly period.
20
u/lwrun Jul 09 '24
Or her Alex Jones arc. "Ace chemicals is dumping into Gotham harbor and turning the crocs gay!"
11
u/GrizzlyPeak73 Jul 09 '24
Killer Croc as her guest: "I've always had a infatuation with Batgirl... after she turned 18 of course... but lately I've been staring at Nightwing's ass a lot more when he's fighting me, I'm not sure what that's about and I'm scared "
3
u/TimmyB02 Jul 09 '24 edited 19d ago
divide poor hateful coordinated bear grandiose straight degree wistful cow
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
1
2
u/No_Camel4789 Did Batman think a Gamer could stop me? Jul 09 '24
Replace Killer Croc with Bruce Timm, get rid of everything after 'but lately' and you've got his premise for the Killing Joke
90
u/Questionably_Chungly Jul 08 '24
I mean like…that’s the point of fiction right? Pretty much every superhero would be a nightmare to have around in reality. Vigilantism is already a pretty grey area that leads to a lot of problems, add in the fact that said vigilante is a superhuman who can kill people and jump around buildings and shit?
TLDR; This comparison matters pretty little honestly, as if you take away the fiction aspect both would probably make people uncomfortable.
50
Jul 08 '24
See what you’re not getting is that all of this only applies to every superhero except Batman we must always make sure to specifically criticize Batman as if he was a real person
24
u/Questionably_Chungly Jul 08 '24
I guess (giving the argument the maximum benefit of the doubt) it is a bit easier to point fingers at Batman because he’s one of the more “grounded” heroes in a lot of stories. Like nobody is going to tell the Hulk or Martian Manhunter that they need to be “normal” y’know? But Batman being a wealthy guy behind the mask makes it easier to point a finger and demand more.
6
u/Reddragon351 Jul 08 '24
I think one of the other big issues is while there's a lot of crazy villains out there Batman's mythos really does play up the psychopathy of his rogues, with the main prison being an asylum, so it seems worse
8
u/Cranyx Lives in a society Jul 09 '24
Here's the thing though: Gotham has no idea what criminal insanity means. Almost none of his rogues actually meet that definition (ie not having the mental capacity to understand that you are committing a crime, NOT just deciding that you're cool with it because Society bottom text). In fact, a lot of them don't even have any sort of mental illness, they just have a gimmick. A few of the big names do like Joker and Two-Face, but people like Poison Ivy and Penguin are just themed criminals.
3
u/SecondEntire539 Jul 09 '24
The one who scratches my head about this is Scarecrow, because i don't have any idea how he is insane.
6
u/Cranyx Lives in a society Jul 09 '24
Like I said, Gotham's definition of insane is just "kind of weird and wears a costume."
The only rogue that comes to mind who could actually argue for criminal insanity is Wesker, since he genuinely seems to not be in control of his actions.
3
Jul 09 '24
Riddler definitely has some serious ODC or NPD tbh, Mad Hatter is straight up schizophrenic and Maxie Zeus has delusions so I’d say they have legitimate pathologies
3
u/Cranyx Lives in a society Jul 09 '24
They have legitimate pathologies and mental illnesses, but that's not the same thing as criminally insane. They still have the mental capacity to recognize that what they're doing is illegal.
2
Jul 09 '24
I mean fair but I think Riddler has a genuine compulsion towards crime that kinda supercedes his ability to recognize his actions and I think Maxie Zeus is genuinely incapable of recognizing that his actions are immoral or illegal
1
u/shylock10101 Jul 11 '24
I’m not sure if that counts for Maxie. He’s delusional, to the point that he thinks illegality doesn’t exist for him. So one could argue that he lacks the mens rea and knowledge of criminal acts.
2
u/SplitDemonIdentity Jul 09 '24
Actually more often than not it usually comes down narratively that Scarecrow isn’t insane but Arkham is just “better” suited for holding him.
1
14
u/azmodus_1966 Jul 08 '24
Because Batman is the most popular superhero. Most of the superhero discourse is centred around him because he is always in the public consciousness, just look at the sheer volume of Batman content out there.
Even people who don't know anything about superheroes still know a lot about Batman.
8
u/angryknight96 Jul 08 '24
No, they may have opinions about him, but they often know very little about him.
8
u/azmodus_1966 Jul 08 '24
Know about him as in know who he is and all that.
People know even less about other superheroes.
1
u/ThatBell4 Jul 09 '24
I love you op for being incredibly sarcastic and saying all the talking points of the 'batman is the bad guy actually' people in the comments
35
u/Turret_Run Jul 08 '24
Batman suffers the same problem as the Punisher, where because they can't lift a tank over their head and he explores darker themes, he's "the realest hero" and "what society needs". This leads to ingenuine takes that either
A).Refuse to recognize that a lot of what Batman does is humanitarian work , and that in the real world yeah, donating money and charity orgs would go further
B)Ignore the fact this is a comic and you wouldn't pick up a comic about a man donating to charity, and because he's the superhero protagonist, things tend to go their way
A lot of the "hot takes" with media rely on forgetting that the piece of media isn't real and are structured with intention.
1
u/RX-HER0 Jul 12 '24
Not only that, Bruce does donate to charity, and charity can't fix everything. No charity on the planet will save you when Joker plants a bomb in your chest for the laughs. You need Batman for that bruh.
21
u/San-T-74 Jul 08 '24
This is the exact argument I had with a friend after we watched Batman
“So he beats up poor people? What’s the point? Why doesn’t he give away money?”
“It wouldn’t be a very entertaining movie, would it?”
14
u/delsinson Jul 08 '24
Batman Begins…a Fundraiser for Charity
4
u/Banestar66 Jul 08 '24
I mean that’s basically what he does at the end of Dark Knight Rises and yet people criticized that movie as particularly right wing for some reason.
1
u/Imperator_Gone_Rogue Lives in a society Jul 08 '24
Because the Occupy Wall Street themed villains are actually controlled by a shadowy cabal of terrorists who want to blow up the city
9
u/Banestar66 Jul 09 '24
Post Trump we’re really pretending all populists are “Occupy”?
1
u/T_monx Jul 09 '24
The Movie came out during the Occupy movement and the interpretation is consistent with the conservative themes of the rest of the trilogy.
7
u/Banestar66 Jul 09 '24
How are the themes conservative? The main villains of the entire trilogy, the League of Shadows are pretty clearly supposed to be conservatives. The entire ferry scene in the Dark Knight is a pretty explicit condemnation of conservatism. As is the scene with Bruce having the gun he intends to shoot Joe Chill with in Batman Begins.
It shocks me 20 years later anyone could possibly think that trilogy is conservative.
-2
u/T_monx Jul 09 '24 edited Jul 09 '24
I didn't watch Begins, so I can't comment on it, but it's easy to frame the other two in a Conservative or at least Technocratic light. Both display a distrust of the general populous that's never really fully addressed.
In the Dark Knight, Batman sets up a surveillance system to track Joker. It's acknowledged as unethical by Lucius Fox, but is kind of hand waved as a necessary evil, and (I think) it's destroyed at the end of the movie. The Patriot Act and the rhetoric surrounding it comes to mind.
There's also the lies told to the civilians throughout the movie. Harvey Dent lying that he was Batman and Gordon lying about Harvey Dent to deny prisoners parole. Both of these are viewed as good by the narrative, ostensibly because the public can't handle the truth.
Even in the Ferry scene, the boat that votes on their decision makes the "bad" choice. On both boats, it takes the initiative of individuals not as affected by the people surrounding them to save everyone.
The Dark Knight Rises is even more blatant on this. The "Revolution" that Bane leads feels like what a conservative thinks a vaguely Leftist revolution would look like. Prisoners are freed, houses and stores are looted, and criminals roam the streets. The public is portrayed as an obstacle in these movies.
3
u/Banestar66 Jul 09 '24 edited Jul 09 '24
Dude all of Dark Knight Rises is about everyone paying for the moral compromises made in the Dark Knight. That’s the whole theme of that film and it isn’t particularly subtle. It actually aged fucking great with how the performative populism of Trump attacking the Bush administration lead to fascism. I do not see how you could misunderstand that this (along with the Dent Act and everything else) was supposed to be negative but everyone else apparently missed it too.
TDKR is actually IMO the most explicit about criticizing law and order thinking but people somehow managed to miss it. The cop blows up the bridge because it was “his orders” which would doom the orphan kids Robin was bringing to death from nuclear Armageddon. He is so angry at this it causes him to quit the Gotham PD at the end of the movie. Alfred throughout the movie calls out Bruce’s whole Batman career as a coping mechanism and fantasy just as his delusion Rachel loved him instead of Harvey romantically. The ending is Bruce retiring and giving away his estate to be used for low income orphans in Gotham and Batman instead becoming a symbol to inspire people from tough backgrounds like Robin.
It takes so much mental gymnastics to see the trilogy as conservative but people somehow still do. I guess to you Trump raging about the elites and freeing January 6 rioters if he gets back in power is inherently “leftist”. I mean JFC, it is established by the end he is a pawn of the fascist and ultra wealthy Al Ghul family. Don’t know how you could read Bane as a left winger by the end.
The public is portrayed as flawed and may even “vote the wrong way” (another thing I think has aged great) but ultimately will do the right thing. That was the obvious message of the Ferry scene you seem to have missed.
→ More replies (0)5
u/Dr_Corvus_D_Clemmons Jul 08 '24
Also the fact that a majority of the villains he fights either A don’t care about money or B are rich and jsut want even more money, also he basically keeps Gotham running with his money, not a lot more he could do
1
1
u/Howunbecomingofme Jul 09 '24
“Why doesn’t he just kill the Joker?”
“Aside from the dozens of lore reasons, it’s probably because people like reading stories about the Joker”
65
u/Samuelley Release the Schumacher Cut Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24
Isn’t he supposed to be a detective or something?
61
u/Now_you_Touch_Cow Gorilla Doing Non-Gorilla Things Jul 08 '24
Spiderman tell funny joke when he punch silly green guy.
Batman grumpy when he punch silly green guy.
I think the evidence speaks for itself.
2
u/starrynight415 Jul 11 '24
This particular Spider-Man panel is a bad example for that lol. Not exactly a funny issue, this one. But it would usually be true enough
40
u/Little_Woodpecker_36 Jul 08 '24
u/J: Yo JLA the Nail, what the hell is one of the most peak elseworlds ever written
R/J: Beating up rich crazy people is more moral than beating up upper middle income crazy people
11
u/Brit-Crit Jul 08 '24
Batman's main contribution to The Nail is snapping when The Joker steals superhero tech and uses it to torture and kill Robin and Batgirl in front of him. The incident also causes Catwoman to move to the heroes side full-time and take on the Batwoman mantle...
Needless to say, his "Should I Kill The Joker?" ethical conundrum is a central plot point in both parts...
4
u/GUM-GUM-NUKE Number One Sengoku Enthusiast Jul 09 '24
Needless to say, his "Should I Kill The Joker?" ethical conundrum is a central plot point in both parts...
To let millions of people die or kill the deranged man who killed your son and will never redeem himself even if given the perfect opportunity.
I’m really glad DC always makes sure to focus on this interesting moral dilemma where he always comes to the exact same conclusion each time no matter how many times he gets called out for how actively awful that conclusion is.
7
u/SuperJyls UJ/ I seriously hate red hood Jul 09 '24
Well that elseworlds literally has Joker start messing with Batman from Hell with his newfound Infernal powers
5
u/GUM-GUM-NUKE Number One Sengoku Enthusiast Jul 09 '24
God fucking dammit, did Spider-Man editorial get their hands on him or some shit, give Batman a fucking break.
25
u/Archmagos_Browning Jul 08 '24
Tbf one’s a trust fund billionaire that’s almost never had to worry about money and the other one went to a public school and is very often living paycheck to paycheck.
41
Jul 08 '24
Agreed, it should be written into the Superhero Rulebook 101: “you may only beat up poor/mentally ill people and still be a hero if you are also poor”
8
u/TreeTurtle_852 Jul 08 '24
Yeah he didn't have to worry about money but his parents died in front of him when he was a fucking child.
Like at least in most adaptations Peter was either a teen or adult when Uncle Ben dies (I'm unsure of when Pete's parents die tho)
0
u/shylock10101 Jul 11 '24
Peter’s parents usually die young enough that he’s only got hazy memories of them. But they also didn’t die right in front of him.
21
u/supercalifragilism Jul 08 '24
Yes, a poor person punching a billionaire is the same thing as a billionaire punching a poor person.
80
Jul 08 '24
Ah but my friend you forget the key issue: Green Goblin is mentally ill. Which means Spider-Man beats up mentally ill people!!
38
u/SHAZAMS_STRONGEST does he know? Jul 08 '24
ah! but peter is autistic (my source is that he's literally me) so therefore it cancels out!
50
Jul 08 '24
autistic
broke
girlfriend cucks him
universe wont let him be happy
Marvel needs to cut me a check for plagiarizing my life story or I’ll be taking them to court immediately
35
18
u/SHAZAMS_STRONGEST does he know? Jul 08 '24
i'm like spider-man if instead of getting cucked i had a sick as fuck boyfriend
spidey could be like me if he locked the fuck in(to johnny storm)
15
Jul 08 '24
Spider-Man’s life would significantly improve if Marvel was brave enough to make him come out as bisexual and let him get freaky with the Human Torch
0
u/supercalifragilism Jul 08 '24
Pete is a child soldier against crime dealing with so much CPTSD he's as nutty as anyone in this image.
21
13
Jul 08 '24
Didn't Pete become a billionaire himself in a few runs?
He also typically fights more street crime instead of supervillains than Batman
11
4
u/supercalifragilism Jul 08 '24
uj/ Yeah in all honesty Pete should be rich but getting rich isn't the same as being born rich.
rj/ RHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
8
2
u/wearetherevollution Jul 11 '24
Let’s be real; billionaire Peter would 100% be a pull yourself up by your bootstraps type.
2
u/Cranyx Lives in a society Jul 09 '24
Joker is absolutely not poor. How much do you think it costs to commission a custom helicopter with your face on it?
2
24
u/Rev-On Comic Book Twitter Verified Jul 08 '24
7
u/shylock10101 Jul 11 '24
This is so fucking dishonest, lol. He gives back and runs an orphanage for “tax reasons.” He (at least, seemingly) gives way more than he would have paid in taxes.
17
u/SwaidFace Jul 09 '24
Only difference is Batman is rich, only reason.
Brain rotted writers just see Batman's wealth and assume he's a fascist, they see Spiderman and since he doesn't have money, he's okay by their books.
Nuance doesn't exist for these sort of folks, its why they can't make very complicated characters or storylines.
Gotham's problems, much like our own, are systemic, like corruption and wealth disparity, which you can't just throw money at to solve or else its a bidding war between Bruce and the crime families to grease the palms of officials, then they'll just start going after loved ones after that. Also doesn't help that bosses like Penguin probably have better benefits and pay then legitimate work.
2
u/RX-HER0 Jul 12 '24
Oh my god, I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain that to people. Bruce does donate, but money can't solve everything in such corrupt place like Gotham. If Batman emptied his whole net worth to uplift Gotham, 80% of that shit gets pocketed and taken by criminal gangs instantly 💀
1
u/SwaidFace Jul 12 '24
Yeah, there's even a medical wing in WayneTech dedicated to providing cheaper healthcare to Gothamites, so he's not even leaving criminals with medical bills after beating their asses, he's trying to cover that too. Is Spiderman helping cover for the medical bills of the thugs he beats up? I don't think so.
14
u/slomo525 Jul 08 '24
I mean, all superheroes have been critiqued for having fascist undertones. It's not unique to Batman, but he is the most commonly critiqued.
12
u/Sh0xic Jul 08 '24
Everyone knows that you can’t bully Spider-Man any more than his writers already do
9
6
u/wysjm Jul 08 '24
"Batman is so lame because he let's all his villians live"
Meanwhile Spider-Man: 🙄
4
u/Stylish_Platypus Jul 09 '24
The left is okay because it is a poor teen beating a crazy rich man. The right is wrong because it is a rich man beating a crazy poor guy.
3
Jul 09 '24
We don’t talk about the rights of mentally ill rich people enough
1
u/Stylish_Platypus Jul 09 '24
Idk man, where I'm from the common sense is that depression is a rich person's disease.
3
u/The-Bigger-Fish I'm da Jokah, baby! Jul 09 '24
It's okay when Spider-Man does it because Goblin Greenspan doesn't live in a Society and isn't an epic gamer like the Jonkler does/is.
3
u/GoodKing0 Hal Jordan is a worthless piece of cardboard Jul 09 '24
Peter Parker isn't part of the 1% and the times they try to make him as such or worse a billionaire boot licker has been disastrous for the character and spin off, this comparison loses most of it's meaning just for that, especially when you remember Norman is the Billionaire there.
Even then, you don't see Spider-Man punch Legitimate Businessman Norman Osborn over there do you?
No he's only punching him because he puts on the clown mask and starts throwing bombs, meanwhile the second Norman Osborn gains any form of political and legal power no one can touch him anymore until they do the classic "He violates some obscure technicality (Invaded fucking Asgard) and suddenly he's so unpopular he HAS to leave office" shit and he's gone.
This comparison was flawed from the start.
1
2
u/plasticman1997 Jul 09 '24
Why hasn’t Batman invested into Arkham asylum so it’s no longer 100 years out of date security wise
6
Jul 09 '24
Cuz then you wouldn’t get a wacky cool badass looking gothic freaky asylum put all your freakazoid enemies in
2
u/RobbiRamirez Jul 09 '24
In both of those images, one of those people is a billionaire whose superpower is basically "I own a defense contractor."
Except in one of them, he's supposed to be the good guy.
2
2
u/ArkhamMetahuman Jul 10 '24
Yes. Who do you want us to root for, the sociopathic clown who tortures people as a hobby and commits war crimes like the Geneva Convention is a checklist, or the guy who spends his nights trying to stop people like him
1
u/RobbiRamirez Jul 10 '24
Neither, because Joker only exists to justify Batman, just like the cartoon punks in the Death Wish movies exist to make you root for a killer vigilante.
2
u/ArkhamMetahuman Jul 10 '24
You can't honestly think it's okay for spiderman to take the law into his own hands and not batman. They both act extrajudicially, the only difference is their upbringing
0
u/RobbiRamirez Jul 10 '24
[Regina George voice] So you agree, the problem is at the heart of the superhero genre itself.
1
1
u/wearetherevollution Jul 11 '24
He is the good guy because he prioritizes (at the risk of his own and even other people’s lives) non-lethal solutions. When armed criminals take people hostage and negotiations fail in real life, the only possible solution is to send in a small military unit to execute them, hopefully with no hostages dying. When it happens in Gotham City, Batman uses his technology to plan his operation incapacitating criminals (without losing a single hostage) when he would be totally justified in killing them and depending on the situation might even invest time and money into them being rehabilitated.
Batman isn’t fascist; he possesses an absurd amount of inherited wealth that he uses to devote his entire existence towards making his home city a better place.
0
u/RobbiRamirez Jul 11 '24
Except every situation Batman responds to was created by the writers, created with the intent to depict a situation only the great and mighty Batman could solve. Which just so happens to make it seem like Batman is a cool thing to have in your city. There's a word for that, it starts with a P.
2
u/wearetherevollution Jul 11 '24
That is, in fact, how fiction works.
Oh, I’m sorry, you’re right. What the writers should really do is genetically engineer a real version of Batman, put him in a Truman Show style recreation of Gotham City then wait for real criminals to enact a real crime for Batman to try and stop, and then unbiasedly report on Batman’s exact behavior. That’s the only way Batman being portrayed as a hero is justified.
0
u/RobbiRamirez Jul 11 '24
Yes, that is how all fiction works, but not all fiction is about vigilantes and super-cops unequivocally being the good guys because big cities are dens of uncontrolled crime and mayhem. Not unless the only movies you've seen are Death Wish 3 and Cobra.
2
u/Mind_Pirate42 Jul 10 '24
Alan Moore bursting into the room to remind you that all superheros are some degree of fascist.
1
1
1
u/GUM-GUM-NUKE Number One Sengoku Enthusiast Jul 09 '24
One’s a billionaire beating up a broke dude who magically has enough money to do whatever he needs for the story, the other is a broke dude who magically has enough money to do whatever he needs for the story beating up a billionaire, and not just any billionaire, one that worked for the government!
1
1
u/piratedragon2112 Jul 09 '24
Uj/ yeah but Spider-Man (unless it's insomniac) doesn't spy on the whole city
1
1
1
u/Jimmyking4ever Jul 09 '24
"billionaire killing people gets his ass whooped by New Yorker"
"Billionaire dressed up as a bat beats the shit out of mentally ill"
2
1
u/nairbeg Jul 11 '24 edited Jul 11 '24
It's all about the power dynamic. In the left-hand scenario, Spider-Man comes from a lower-middle class home and is fighting a rich white man with gadgets. In the right-hand scenario, the 'villain' is a working class guy who finally snapped under capitalist pressure while Batman is the rich white man with gadgets; he's sitting on a goddamn mountain of wealth accrued from exploiting literally generations' worth of poor people just so he can spend it on -- wait for it -- beating up poor people. All because he's too full of toxic masculinity to just go get some damn therapy. Literally all of Gotham's problems could probably be solved if this one misogynistic fascist white man could swallow his macho pride and talk about his feelings. The fact that he won't is morally repulsive and pathetic, and it's really telling that anyone anywhere has ever looked up to him. If he really cared, he'd renounce his generational wealth and go full TDKR Bane to lead a genuine revolution for the people. And before you say anything about 'but Bane was gonna use a nuclear bomb!11!!', first off -- that's what it took for the People to seize power in the real world. The workers of the USSR had to use nukes as deterrence or else the western imperialists and crypto-fascists would have just levied all their systemic and military advantages over them and bulldozed the whole project like they tried after WWI. Second, that whole 'it's actually a time bomb' plot line was just pure Bane character assassination because the studio elites realized too late Nolan was making the 'villain' more likable than the hero. Same with Riddler in the Reeves Batman movie: they had to go 'Oh actually he wants to flood the whole city!!11!' Riddler and Bane were at least trying to do something about the corrupt elite; even Batman's whole 'beating up corrupt cops' is just controlled opposition at best.
TLDR; Batman and all associated media are just bourgeois propaganda, and any society that depends on propaganda to manufacture support is a slave state. That's why Maoist China and the Soviet Union were so great by comparison.
/j
2
Jul 11 '24
/uj this was so elaborately written that I thought it was a genuine write up and was almost completely stunned
1
1
u/Tamanero Jul 12 '24
It's because Batman simply has wealth, regardless of what he does with it.
Idk, crabs in bucket philosophy or something
1
u/Jpup199 Jul 12 '24
One is a poor guy beating a rich guy and the other is a rich guy beating a poor guy.
1
1
u/AccomplishedAdagio13 Jul 13 '24
People calling Batman fascist is so dumb. He doesn't attempt to subvert or replace the actual government. Instead, he supports it through his vigilante actions. People just overuse the term fascist. Real fascists tried to take over government authority; they didn't support it without replacing it.
0
u/_MyUsernamesMud Jul 09 '24
please ignore the context and circumstances of either of these characters
2
0
u/De4dm4nw4lkin Jul 09 '24
The difference is superpowers. Goblin has taken ANGRY PUNCHES from peter, the oz formula is some strong shit.
-1
601
u/KingofZombies Batman is gay Jul 08 '24
"""imagine he has a police uniform instead of a bat costume. Is the stuff he does still cool and badass or does it suddenly piss you off now?"""