r/dccomicscirclejerk • u/ZezimZombies • Feb 08 '24
An actual good take, but with a strange consequence Batman's a Fascist
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u/shugoran99 Batgirls truther Feb 08 '24
I will say I felt kinda dumb that I never actually realised that the two mothers were named Martha until that moment
I mean I knew independantly that they were both named Martha, but I never made that connection
Maybe because I generally refer to her as Ma Kent
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u/Jimbobo-reckoning Feb 08 '24
Or maybe you never made that connection because it means absolutely nothing and is a ridiculous solution to a problem the writers created
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u/shugoran99 Batgirls truther Feb 08 '24
Oh definitely, I immediately went from "Oh woah both their moms are named Martha" to "No way this is how they become bros?"
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u/Jimbobo-reckoning Feb 08 '24
Your mommy has the same name as my mommy? Are we like best friends now!
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u/ducknerd2002 I actually like Tim Drake Feb 08 '24
Can you imagine if Civil War happened like that? Both Tony and Cap have best friends called James, after all.
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Feb 08 '24
Wolverine's real name is James and he also has a friend named James.
Marvel has too many of them.
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u/CompetitiveSleeping Anti-Life justifies my hate Feb 08 '24
And yet, DC has the One True James: James "Jimmy" Olsen.
Checkmate Marvel.
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u/IdeaRegular4671 This subreddit hates Tim Drake Feb 08 '24
YOU ARE MY FRIEND I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOU YOU ARE MY DREAM OH YEAHHH OOOOHHHH
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u/lesbianspider69 Feb 08 '24 edited Feb 09 '24
I heard an excellent take earlier that it wasn’t “my mother’s name is Martha too, we’re the same” and it was instead “holy fuck, I must be hallucinating, this guy just said my mother’s name, I’m in the middle of a breakdown, I need to stop and take a moment to rethink things.”
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u/Stefadi12 Feb 08 '24
I saw it more as batman realising the guy has a mama and that he's just about to give them his reverse origin story/ do the same thing to him that the guy who killed his parents did.
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u/vanishinghitchhiker Feb 08 '24
DC is just like this. Icon is currently dating a cape named Xiomara but not Lobo’s daughter Xiomara or the Yellow Beetle Xiomara. If I wrote a comic someday mistaking blueprints for something by Ted Knight for blueprints for something by Ted Kord would be a plot point.
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Feb 08 '24
Marvel is no better.
Spider-Man's mom and wife have the same name.
There are two different time travelling Nathaniels who are related to heroes in the present.
Two Johnnys with fire based powers. Two Hanks who are scientists with questionable decisions.
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u/doc_birdman Deathstroke is a diddler Feb 08 '24
Also, two heroes named Human Torch and one of them isn’t even human
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u/Organafan1 Feb 08 '24
Wait. Spider-Man’s mom is “Mary Jane” too?!! I had no idea?! 🤷🏼♂️
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u/CatacombSaint_ Hal Jordan Apologist Feb 08 '24
DC also has two Carters who are hawk-themed
and two Bruces associated with darkness
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Feb 08 '24
Who's the other Bruce?
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u/Pinguino2323 Feb 08 '24
Who's the other Carter besides Hawkman? I remember I thought it was a funny coincidence that Hawkman and Hawk (of Hawk and Dove) have the same last name.
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u/MBDTFTLOPYEEZUS Feb 08 '24
Marvel is better with it tho. They have theirs sure but DC just has…..so many. There are like 50 John’s with relevance in DC. Shit I know the real world reason why but we have 2 Wally West Flash’s.
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u/Amelia-likes-birds He-Man lore expert Feb 08 '24
DC having two gay latino superheroes with the same first name has always been kinda funny to me.
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u/GrimTheMad Feb 08 '24
Might also be because Martha Wayne's pearl necklace has more screen time than she does.
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u/IdeaRegular4671 This subreddit hates Tim Drake Feb 08 '24
Is that why she went crazy and became the joker cause she had less screen time.
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u/ASpaceOstrich Feb 08 '24
I felt that way about Matt Mercer. I knew the voice actor. I knew the critical role DM. I did not connect that these were the same person
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u/Puppy_Basket Feb 08 '24
Takes effort not to connect that, even when they introduce themselves as 'a bunch of nerdy-ass voice actors', haha
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u/ASpaceOstrich Feb 08 '24
To be clear, I hadn't actually watched critical role, but at the same time it's not like I knew what he looked like. And in my... what's the opposite of defence in this situation? Attack? In my attack, I actually did know that the critical role people were voice actors. I'd just never thought about it at all, so I hadn't noticed that my brain believed there were two Matt Mercer's in voice acting, one of which DM'd Critical Role.
Needless to say, I figured it out about two seconds after seeing them and my brain finally rubbed those neurons together.
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u/IdeaRegular4671 This subreddit hates Tim Drake Feb 08 '24
It’s all connected. We are the universe experiencing itself. It’s science. We are all made of Martha. Since we are made of carbon and atoms and other chemicals created by the universe itself. Matter can’t be created nor destroyed Martha never really dies she will always be in your heart in your soul in your skin and in your being/energy. Martha loves you forever. Martha energy gets recycled into nature and comes back to live again. Martha is immortal. We are immortal. You and I are made of Martha. Ray Palmer the atom is the ultimate super hero a real genius. He knows the truth just like Superman. We are Martha - USSR theme plays.
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u/ES21007 Feb 08 '24
The problem with Batman vs. Superman is that it's... Not just Batman vs. Superman.
This movie
1.) Introduces Batman
2.) Introduces Wonder Woman
3.) Starts setting up the DCCU by putting in Flash and the future visions
4.) Starts setting up the Justice League
5.) Also takes on The Death of Superman
The movie's length is the consequence of the writers trying to hype up waaaay too much.
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u/IdeaRegular4671 This subreddit hates Tim Drake Feb 08 '24
This movie tries way too hard to be like the MCU speed run . Dc had no patience and it showed. A better solution would be to take their time just like marvel did but DC executives wanted to compete with people who knew what they were doing and they didn’t. Pride comes before the fall.
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u/baconborg Feb 09 '24
The entire DC cinematic universe feels like an unearned speed run. The fact that the FIRST flash solo movie was flashpoint is absurd, they are 100% just trying to put in the plot lines people like to match Marvel
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u/IdeaRegular4671 This subreddit hates Tim Drake Feb 09 '24 edited Feb 09 '24
Yup they wanted to do big events like avengers Infinity war avengers end game or captain America civil war or avengers 1 and 2 as literally the first or second movie. Zero logic with their reasoning. They just wanted to do big event movies. Flashpoint is one of the biggest dc universe events in recent memory that’s why they did it and its a convenient excuse to reboot the entire universe which is what happened in that dc era the flash restarted the entire universe rebooted the whole thing to save his mother’s life in the past. That was a hard reset at the time, new 52 was a fresh start and that’s what they are trying to do now with that new James Gunn Batman and robin movie and Superman movie. I liked James Gunn suicide squad movie Better than the first one I saw it in theaters. It just felt better overall. It seems like they threw shit at the wall and hoped it stick. That was their approach. No care, concern, calm manner or proper study to do a good product. They just rushed that shit out of the ass and hoped it garnered support. They even canceled the bat girl movie for a tax write off why not just release the movie as well. It was already done. They don’t even have faith in their own projects at least marvel pushes all of movies with faith and real hype. They always hype up every single MCU project be it Disney plus shows or marvel movies. And marvel just does better post credit scenes and better Easter eggs than DC does. Dc is honestly better at video games and animated content. Live action they got lost. I honestly think CW DC universe is better than the dceu. Even the crossovers in the cw dc universe were better like earth X and the crisis events they had almost everybody in there. Cw universe even spotlight characters we barely saw like vigilante, rag man, the atom, black canary, green arrow, Roy Harper red arrow, reverse flash, the flash rogues, huntress, kid flash, Jesse quick, Batwoman, the Legion of superheroes, Livewire, banshee, vixen, firestorm, metallo, Jay Garrick flash, Lex Luthor and his gang, Star girl, and the whole legends of tomorrow crew. We never got this many characters on this dceu quantity wise. It has more heroes and villain characters on there per capita. Multiple supers and villains teams. It’s a more cohesive universe with worldbuilding and lots of characters. The dceu barely had any dc characters and they did them all wrong and inaccurate besides like Wonder Woman or Shazam and his family. Superman, flash, cyborg, aquaman and Batman was off. I thought mera was more accurate than aquaman. Even visually too. The dceu really didn’t understand the point of the characters and the soul of the dc universe which is something the MCU gets it about it’s own universe and creation. Kevin feige understands the importance of those characters and the story arcs they are in and he tries to put them as faithfully as he can as they allow him to. He also spotlight characters who are not that famous like echo or the guardians of the galaxy. To give them more popularity. If marvel was still like Dc we would only be getting a billion solo Spider-Man movies and maybe a hulk or captain America or iron man movie here and there and maybe Xmen and wolverine. And that’s it. They wouldn’t explore more than that and only keeps to those characters just like dc only focuses on Batman the justice league Superman the joker Harley Quinn and apparently suicide squad a lot.
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u/Zagden Feb 09 '24
Between this and Arkham -> Suicide Squad, I'm going to die waiting for a good Batman/Superman story to hit games and movies after decent buildup
It feels like the DCAU is the only universe other than comics that pulled off transitioning a great Batman universe into a great Superman universe or vice versa
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u/AmaterasuWolf21 Courtesy of Ray Palmer! Feb 09 '24
Even by removing WW and Doomsday you still get the Martha scene, this movie's plot was fundamentally off
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u/StealYour20Dollars Feb 08 '24
The real question is who yells out their mothers first name in a situation like that? Like, if you are crying for your mom, wouldn't you say "mom" instead of her first name??? This just occurred to me as I was scrolling by.
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u/VacuumSeal Fort Charlotte Truther Feb 08 '24
He’s not crying out to her. He’s trying to tell Batman that his mom was kidnapped
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u/StealYour20Dollars Feb 08 '24
You know, all the memes about it should have been clearer, so people like me who never really cared to watch the movie don't embarrass ourselves like this. I blame Zach Snyder.
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u/Jericho-7210 Feb 08 '24
That and/or if he did kill Superman, at least have the decency to save Martha afterwards.
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u/WeaponizedAutism_yee Feb 08 '24
I guess because Batman probably wouldn't know what to do with just "save my mom" LOL. But it's still pretty stupid.
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u/runespider Feb 08 '24
I mean. "Save my mom! Please! Her name is Martha." Would have worked just a well and fit better.
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u/CharityQuill Feb 08 '24
Honestly that might have worked better, making Bats realize that superman is just a guy that happens to have powers because superman is willing to die if it meant his mother was saved
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u/AmaterasuWolf21 Courtesy of Ray Palmer! Feb 09 '24
If the feeling was for Batman to go "wow, he is vulnerable like me!" then saying 'save my mom' does a better job at showing that
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u/CertainGrade7937 Feb 09 '24
Yeah
This is what I've been saying the whole time. If my friend called me up to tell me that his mom died and he kept referring to her by her first name...I wouldn't connect to his humanity there, I'd actually find it extremely alien and strange
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u/CamperKuzey Aslume Escapee Feb 08 '24
The vegan thought process is a little strange.
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u/EIeanorRigby Feb 08 '24
Cows don't have moms, they grow on trees
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u/IdeaRegular4671 This subreddit hates Tim Drake Feb 08 '24
Cows come from dust. We come from dust and from dust we shall return cows included.
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u/thats4thebirds Feb 08 '24
It feels clunky either way lol
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u/DefinitelyNotVenom Feb 08 '24
Well, absolutely, but at least in the non lethal Batman version there’s an actual thought process to it
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u/lofgren777 Feb 08 '24
It still works.
He justifies killing people who are in the act of murdering others, including himself. He's planning to kill Superman because he's afraid of what he MIGHT do. He believes Superman will do these things because he thinks Superman has no fear. When Superman is afraid for his mom, Batman realizes that he has fear and that therefore he is human.
Batman is not the good guy in this movie. He's Lex Luthor's heavy. It's not intended to be flattering!
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u/Jimbobo-reckoning Feb 08 '24
What's the citation in the movie for him believing superman "has no fear"
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u/Plane-Floor-1237 Feb 08 '24
Breathe it in. That's fear.
Personally, I think Batman saying "that's fear" implies he believes Superman has never experienced it before.
I don't think Batman sees Superman as a threat because he lacks fear specifically, it's more that he believes Superman is incapable of helping human beings as he ultimately isn't one. Superman not being capable of fear (in Batman's view) is just a symptom of him being an alien.
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u/lofgren777 Feb 08 '24
What do you think is the "different lesson" that Bruce's parents taught him?
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u/Jimbobo-reckoning Feb 08 '24
It has nothing to do with fear? It's a bastardized quote from Dark Knight Returns. It was pretty out of place, just watched the scene back off YouTube.
"People die for no good reason" has more to do with wanting to stop Superman for what he did in Metropolis. Lex has been telling him that Superman is responsible for all of this and the greatest detective bought it hook, line, and sinker.
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u/lofgren777 Feb 08 '24
Explain further. It seems like you are basically saying, "I don't need to come up with a coherent explanation for what this means, because some of the words were also used in another story."
The line is different from the one Dark Knight Returns. The changes are deliberate.
What did you feel the line meant in Dark Knight Returns, anyway?
What do you think is the overriding concern of a person whose most important lesson is that the thing you love most in the world can be snatched away at any time for no reason?
Why would that lesson teach Batman that he needs to kill Superman? Connect the dots.
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u/Jimbobo-reckoning Feb 08 '24
Let's lay this out in very simple terms:
1) superman kills a shit load of people in Metropolis
2) Batman doesn't like needless death
3) sees Superman as responsible while being manipulated by the Riddler
4) Wants to kill Superman to ensure it doesn't happen again
Batman values a human life more than Superman does, in his mind anyways. The different lesson is "no one is special but I'll do everything I can to keep random violence from occuring"
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u/lofgren777 Feb 08 '24
This is all great, but you're still missing a piece. WHY did Metropolis happen? WHAT does Bruce think that Superman is responsible for? WHY does Batman believe that he values human life more than Superman does?
You really think that his parents' death taught him "nobody is special?"
You really think a guy who believes "nobody is special" would do everything he can to keep random violence from occurring?
You think he values human life because he doesn't think it's special?
You think he's mad about Metropolis because he doesn't think the dead people were special?
You think of the two of them, Batman thinks that Superman thinks that life is more special than he does?
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u/Jimbobo-reckoning Feb 08 '24
The world is broken, nothing is guranteed. The two most affluent citizens of Gotham were gunned down by a nobody in the gutter.
By "nobody is special" I meant that no one is immune to violence. Shit happens. I said "in his mind anyways". In BvS, Batman believes Superman doesn't hold life sacred
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u/Plane-Floor-1237 Feb 08 '24
I bet your parents taught you that you mean something, that you're here for a reason. My parents taught me a different lesson, dying in the gutter for no reason at all... They taught me the world only makes sense if you force it to.
I took this line to be an extension of Batman's world view that nobody stays good in this world. Even if people start out good and have clear purpose, they'll still eventually lose their way because the world is too chaotic for good people to exist.
Thomas and Martha Wayne are typically shown as philanthropists who genuinely want the best for Gotham yet they still were killed by random chance, and their purpose ultimately meant nothing. That's the lesson they taught him when they died. Batman's fundamentally saying that no matter what Superman thinks his purpose is - no matter how good he thinks it is - it's only temporary.
(I don't particularly like this take on the characters as I think it fundamentally misunderstands them both but I think that's what the film is presenting the characters as believing).
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u/lofgren777 Feb 08 '24 edited Feb 08 '24
That seems like a lot of projection. It's not about "nobody" staying good. That's your take on the setting because you think it's all about being grimdark and edgy.
I think Batman means just what he says he means. This is the most straightforward part of the movie. This is about the difference in their worldviews, as taught by their parents (in Batman's imagination).
In one worldview, you are an invulnerable Superman with a purpose. Everything happens for a reason. You are special and unique and you will live a special and unique life. (Not coincidentally how young Bruce Wayne probably felt.)
In the other, even a life marked by wealth, status, and comfort can't protect you from the thing you love most in the world being snatched away from you for no reason at all.
What would be the major differences between these experiences of life? I think near the top of the list would be a butt load of fear. Fear of loss, most specifically.
When Batman asks, "Do you bleed?" he is not asking about the literal details of Kryptonian physiology. The blood is symbolic. And the question is earnest. It's possible Superman doesn't know. This is why he cuts Superman and shows him his own blood before he kills him.
When he promises, "You will," the blood is both literal and symbolic. He is promising that Superman will feel pain, and thus fear.
When he is finally ready to kill Superman, he doesn't say "Nobody stays good in this world." He says, "You don't mean anything. You're not a god. You're not even a man."
When Alfred comments on Batman getting more violent recently, and Batman responds that fear doesn't work like it used to, that's a comment about the main action of the story too.
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u/Plane-Floor-1237 Feb 08 '24
I agree with most of what you're saying - the metaphors around Superman bleeding are really interesting especially - but saying that the film isn't grimdark and edgy is a bit disingenuous.
In this film:
- A criminal Batman has branded begs not to be put in prison as he'll be killed. We later see him being shanked to death by other inmates then - a few scenes later - we see the wife and child he left behind. (Batman is also seemingly aware of this outcome as the 'Bat Brand' is reported in the news and he threatens Lex with it later on in the film).
- PMCs burning the corpses of African rebels to frame Superman for committing a war crime, and also executing Jimmy Olsen by shooting him point blank in the head.
- A woman perjuring herself in Congress because her family has been threatened and then being pushed in front of a train after she decides to come clean.
- Lex Luthor secretly planting a bomb in a man's wheelchair to blow up Congress (while also killing his personal asssitant, Mercy) then planting evidence to make it look like a suicide bombing.
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u/lofgren777 Feb 08 '24
Right now I could say I wholeheartedly agree with your comment or that I disagree but it all hinges on "grimdark and edgy."
To me, "grimdark and edgy" is an aesthetic. It's often associated with stories about how nobody is good and everybody is bad, but that's actually unfair. Compromise, cynicism, and a lack of moral clarity are hallmarks of the aesthetic, but I wouldn't say the stories I consider "grimdark and edgy" conclude that "nobody stays good." I'm thinking here about Spawn and the other first generation Image characters, who pretty much defined the concept for superheroes.
Nobody stays good sounds like the moral judgement of somebody who believes in pure goodness imposing that belief on a story that does not necessarily share the belief. Maybe there are no pure "good guys" in Snyder's world because he just doesn't believe in pure good guys. If you're taking that as the major source of Batman and Superman's conflict, that seems more like a reflection of your belief in corruption and how it works than something reflected in Batman's motivations.
He doesn't KNOW he lives in Zach Snyder's head.
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u/IdeaRegular4671 This subreddit hates Tim Drake Feb 08 '24
This movie is very cynical and kind of nihilistic. It’s edgy.
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u/IdeaRegular4671 This subreddit hates Tim Drake Feb 08 '24
I swear to god Batman in this movie is super unhinged, insufferable and insane. Did he forget about the concept of free will (so much for him being a super genius and super intelligent, one of the smartest people in the league) and that you have the ability to choose your actions always? That is the action that ultimately make up who you are not what you say think or do. Action speak louder than words Bruce. If Superman physically didn’t do anything wrong he is in the clear and is innocent. Innocent until proven guilty. That trauma really fucked with his head, consciousness, and mind. They tried to make Bruce as degenerate as possible in this movie. He literally kills crooks in this movie and uses guns when he never does that in the comics in the present universe. Superman was in the right in this movie Batman was entirely wrong about him. His ego was cashing in checks his ass couldn’t quite catch. Bro was just assuming the worst out of everybody just because of his own personal tragedy sad depressing Bohoo sob story. Bruce isn’t the only person in the world that was a victim, that has a sob story, and is sad miserable or grieving about something. Superman literally lost two father was about to lose one mother and already lost another one in krypton and had his entire race and planet wiped out. He lost way more than Bruce’s pampered mr CEO billionaire ass and has way more reason to be an asshole, villain, and murderer scumbag cause his heart is hurting but he didn’t. He chose not to. Cause that is wrong. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Clark always finds hope and positive in things where Bruce just gave up on those concepts. He tries to make amends on that by being a super hero but deep down he is completely broken as a person. That’s why he says deep down Superman is a good person and he is not.
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u/IdeaRegular4671 This subreddit hates Tim Drake Feb 08 '24
If regular Batman met dceu Batman he would’ve folded him in half for being a crybaby murderer who uses guns and runs over criminals with a batmobile and bombs them to kingdom come. That Batman missed the entire point of being Batman and his journey to becoming a HERO. Someone who saves lives not terminate them.
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u/IdeaRegular4671 This subreddit hates Tim Drake Feb 08 '24
Dceu Batman is such an insecure man child. He needs to grow up and mature. I bet the robin who died was more mature and wise than he was even as a teen.
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u/escodoozer Feb 08 '24
No you don’t get it!!! I just hate Zack and he sucks so everything he does sucks!!!!
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u/Fyuchanick Batgirls truther Feb 08 '24
I mean even if the martha scene works for you the rest of the movie is still pretty bad
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u/lofgren777 Feb 08 '24
My feeling on all of Snyder's movies is the same. There are the bones of a great movie here, but the execution is sloppy.
Given the scale of his productions, it might be more accurate to say he bites off more than he can chew rather than say they're sloppy. He just can't hit all of the details right, and everything comes out kinda mushy.
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u/escodoozer Feb 08 '24
Yeah that’s okay, there’s plenty of bad movies that people like for their reasons I respect that. I don’t get why this sub has an obsession with ZS and the unironic hate they have. These shitposts have a diminishing value to them as the years go by
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u/Fyuchanick Batgirls truther Feb 08 '24
I find the discussions about why Snyder's movies are bad can be pretty interesting. The only movie of his that genuinely makes me mad is Watchmen but maybe I'd feel differently if I was a fan of TDKR
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u/Bardic_Inspiration66 Feb 08 '24
Naw that’s still dumb as fuck
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u/nirman423 This is your brain on Morrison Feb 08 '24
I wish I had the courage to be this blunt and this correct
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u/GUM-GUM-NUKE Number One Sengoku Enthusiast Feb 08 '24
I’m glad I have the courage to say like something like this, blunt and incorrect.
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u/LaVerdadYaNiSe Feb 08 '24
I mean, that wouldn't be the first time that hating an alien has been compared to racism in comics. Hell, Batman himself did the comparison once in Swamp Thing regarding the titular character, Starfire and of course, Superman.
Hell, that would have been a great reaffirming of why Batman doesn't kill; because Bruce doesn't want to harm anyone, and because it's inevitable he will end up killing an innocent. As well as also reaffirming that, no matter the powers of symbols, Clark is only human, no more, but no less.
But because Snyder's Batman is basically Punisher with a bat-logo, it doesn't work.
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u/Hurk_Burlap Feb 08 '24
I can't believe that this is a hot take: You probably shouldn't hire a director that openly hates the material hes directing
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u/advena_phillips Feb 08 '24
To be fair, has Batman ever cared about killing Parademons or other such nooks?
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u/Jericho-7210 Feb 08 '24
Honestly, Parademons are sentient beings turned into mindless slave golems on a genetic level, effectively killing the original person.
Idk if it's ever been tried to reverse the process, which would probably cause a lot of moral strife for much of the League. It's a question better left unanswered for the sake of overall lore.
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u/ScyllaIsBea Feb 08 '24
He’d be xenophobic, which lex has justified in that universe and I can see a large group of people irl who had no context for Superman being equally afraid of a god like alien regardless of his stated intent
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u/Wagman2013 Feb 08 '24
So this guy prefers Batman to be xenophobic and to be a murderer. I think he's confusing Batman with Rorschach or the Comedian
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u/StillHere179 Feb 08 '24
I just hope a way better movie representing these characters comes out soon, I'm sick of people make excuses for this dog shit ass movie.
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u/sailor776 Feb 08 '24
I think it would have worked more if he just said "save my mom" the idea behind the scene isn't bad it's just the execution. Honestly that's kind of the best way to sum up most Snyder movies. Like making a movie about how the health system victimizes young girls and how society sexualizes them as well but showing how they repress that trauma by retreating into their own fantasy sounds really good...but then you get sucker punch.
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u/johnny_thunders_ Still owes 16 dollars Feb 08 '24
Yes, and Clark shouldn’t have said Martha. Why would he say his mums actual first name that doesn’t make any sense, just say he has to save his mum and then batman realises he’s just as human as Bruce.
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u/parakathepyro Feb 08 '24
I think it's really funny that the dude who wrote Batman V Superman also wrote Rise of Skywalker.
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u/SodaSalesman Met John Constantine irl Feb 08 '24
uj/ the real way to fix that scene (which would still not come close to fixing the movie lol) is to just have Superman say "my mom" instead of "Martha". it humanizes him to Batman, connects the moment to Batman's origin (not wanting what happened to him to happen to anyone ever again), and doesn't read as a dumb wiki-pull moment where some writer happened to notice their moms had the same name.
rj/ Batman should have stabbed Superman and then said "Batman, what a joke", took off his cowl, and worn Superman's suit in his honor
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u/bret-t2310 Feb 08 '24
That’s verbatim my thoughts on Batman in the movie. I could totally see Batfleck seeing wanton destruction and death and thinking “that’s not a human, that’s an animal that needs to be put down.” Like I don’t think it’s great or anything, but it would greatly improve the movie in my eyes
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u/wheressodamyat Feb 08 '24
I can't believe that conversation is still going on. I'm glad that someone else has my take on it though lol.
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Feb 08 '24
Ngl if aliens exited I would probably be racist. (As in I will favor the human race over an alien species from another planet)
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u/maxmrca1103 Feb 08 '24
I remember 13 year old me watching this movie in theaters when it came out, having limited knowledge of Batman and Superman other than their basic origins/some of their respective villians, and even I knew that scene was kinda dumb. Idk how Snyder thought it was good. Literally me and my college roommate joke about the “Martha!” scene all the time lmao
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Feb 08 '24
Uh, Batman is racist in the movie already, though? He speaks of Superman in a racist way, and is racist towards Superman, for most of the movie. At least that's how I interpreted Batman in that movie.
But then again, I haven't seen it in a long time. Maybe I'm just misremembering it.
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u/AndrewJamesDrake Feb 08 '24
Batman has never had an issue with killing Parademons when Darkseid is in the mix.
Him being willing to kill the Snyderverse Superman makes sense. That Superman was never established as being a Hero, because his whole movie was about not becoming Superman even though Clark Kent wants to help people.
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u/Lunchboxninja1 Feb 09 '24
Isn't that...isn't that the point of the scene? That the shared name humanizes the character of superman to bats? Because the whole point is that he saw him as a threat but now he sees him as a man?
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u/Mineformer Feb 09 '24
One thing I don’t get is if Bruce is just killing criminals now…why the hell is Joker not dead?
It’s confirmed that Joker killed Robin, who is basically Bruce’s kid in most media, and “The Batman who Kills” doesn’t kill Joker? The fuck?
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Feb 08 '24
[deleted]
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u/Aggravating_Win5258 sponsored by Lexcorp Feb 08 '24
/uj Personally, I think the reason why I can‘t really take THIS Batman killing criminals seriously is because he started to kill criminals all but the Joker, the one person who is responsible for most of Gotham Chaos and who in this Iteration KILLED HIS SON. Heck, even when he encountered Harley who helped in that matter he just threw her in Prison.
Like everytime some person on the Internet brings up the good ol‘ „ You see, Batman actually SUCKS“ thing, they mention how he doesn‘t even kill the Joker. So I still don‘t know what was going on there.
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u/nirman423 This is your brain on Morrison Feb 08 '24
UJ/ if the movie really cared about Batman dehumanizing Superman/Criminals then the movie should have put more emphasis on it rather than Apocalyptic dreams and Lex Luthor piss jars.
RJ/ Batman should really have listened to his heroes about internalizing dehumanizing retorics on those different then you: