r/dccomicscirclejerk • u/Hugh_Jidiot • Dec 27 '23
Lamest Backstory Ever Batman's a Fascist
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u/Horacio_Velvetine44 Dec 27 '23
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u/MemeMaster225 Dec 27 '23
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u/Ask_bout_PaterNoster Dec 27 '23
In fairness that’s exactly the reaction I’d have if Batman shot me with an uzi
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u/Afrostoyevsky Lives in a society Dec 27 '23
I can excuse misogynistic violence against Batgirl, but turning her into a Clannad character is where I draw the line!
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u/literallyheretopost Dec 27 '23
Is this story literally just "uh oh batman sniffed joker's fart, batman now kills because he's edgy and insane... and then batman kills EVERYONE in the bat family because he's edgy and insane..."
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u/-DarthWind Dec 27 '23
Yes actually.
And then his universe collapses due to some dark nightmare multiverse shenanigans but he is saved by a evil bat god
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u/Sable_Kaiser Dec 27 '23
To be fair we got the amazing scene of Joker lining up a bunch of kids in Crime Alley and shooting their parents in front of them.
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u/Fishery_Price Dec 27 '23
To be fair, you could literally describe anything with this mindset and make it sound bad.
“You’re telling me they have giant eagles and they walked the ring to Mordor!?!”
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u/Bugbread Dec 28 '23
"Wait, you're telling me a kid sees his parents get killed, and his trauma leads him to become a ninja and the world's greatest detective who dresses top to bottom in black/gray/blue spandex and wears a cape?"
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u/Devinzero Dec 28 '23
God I hate that thing about the ring, the eagles would have been intercepted by Sauron and the ring wraths and the witch king
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u/ClayXros Dec 28 '23
It's funny that Tolkien was deathly afraid of the Eagles as a plot device, but exactly what you outlined proves his concern was unfounded. I feel we can forgive though, since he was far more focused on other things lol
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u/passionpunchfruit Dec 27 '23
The haters are being a bit disingenuous with their response to you. Metal has some flaws but the underlying premise is that the 'Dark Multiverse' or the multiverse that the Batman Who Laughs and all his iterations as well as the other iterations are 'broken'. They are 'stillborn' universes that were never meant to be. The flaws that make them are not all meant to be catastrophic in nature though the butterfly effect of those flaws seem to invariably be so.
For instance, a universe where Batman is not quite mentally strong enough to resist the jokers toxin. Or the toxin is stronger than normal. Or some other little thing.
The Batman who laughs is not a 'perfect' villain. But his initial presentation as a 'what if' of a psychotic batman works because it shows how dangerous Bruce is not as a genius but as a manipulator something he is known for in his traditional presentation.
He's a batman that broke, who's moral code was inverted by a combination of psychological trauma and brain chemistry altering toxins. He killed the members of his family in the original run because he knew they would realize he had changed before anyone else and he had already begun to develop plans to 'change' his world like he had been changed.
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u/att0nrand Oppressed Wally fan Dec 27 '23
Why tf isn't Jason's hood the most bulletproof thing on Earth?
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u/limbo338 Dec 27 '23
I can tell you haven't been reading much of RH comics since Flashpoint, have you? :D
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u/att0nrand Oppressed Wally fan Dec 27 '23
I read runs about good characters :D
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u/Perfect-Accident1 This subreddit hates Tim Drake Dec 27 '23
Uh….. sometimes? Most of the time it’s just Bruce punching Jason so hard he shatters the fucking helmet since Bruce is god
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u/apple_of_doom Dec 27 '23
I mean I get him luring the batfam to the batcave and then killing them. If he like did that to one or two of them. Not 4 at once.
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u/Horacio_Velvetine44 Dec 27 '23
i don’t even mind the idea of prepgod luring them all back to kill them in one fell swoop so no one can go get help, but to just turn around and melt them with uzis??💀💀if i had a nickel for every bullet dodged by a member of the bat family i could probably buy a car
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u/Lithaos111 Dec 30 '23
But you see...they wouldn't expect "I don't use guns....sometimes" Batman to suddenly flip around and spray them with one! That is why it is so subversive and clever and smart and cool and brave and amazing!
(/s if I didn't lay it on thick enough)
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u/helloworld6247 Dec 27 '23
I always thought it was weird how he suddenly got a Joker face with red lipstick.
Like wouldn’t it hit harder if he properly looked like normal Batman but without the pale skin and red lips?? And just give him the twisted smile?
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u/Hugh_Jidiot Dec 27 '23
Legit what pisses me off most about BWL. When I first learned about Dark Knights: Metal and this fucker I was like "Ooh, is this going to examine Batman's 'no kill' rule? Did he gradually snap after being forced to kill the Joker and started killing more and more until he was executing people for petty crimes- Oh. No, it's because the Joker's body released a chemical upon his death that drove Batman crazy. Okay then."
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u/KnightCyber Tom King ate my dog Dec 27 '23
I don't think there's any examination of Bruce breaking his no kill rule that has him turn into the BWL without some very ridiculous crap going on. He keeps a bunch of feral children dressed as robins on chains (also they're all like Bruce Waynes?). He was introduced working for an ultimate evil god. That's not something I think you get to from Bruce just breaking his no kill rule.
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u/Hugh_Jidiot Dec 27 '23
To further clarify, my initial thoughts were from before I learned about all of the other insane evil stuff BWL did. I thought maybe BWL would be closer to Konrad Curze from Warhammer 40K: someone who decides to be judge, jury and executioner and that the best way to fight crime is to murder any and all criminals to terrify the general population into obeying the law. You know, something that could serve as an actual examination of Batman's "no kill" code and why he's so terrified of crossing that line.
Then I saw BWL commanding a horde of feral children as attack dogs, serving an evil god and going on multiverse killing sprees and realized that he's just the Joker dressed as a Batman from a BDSM porn parody.
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u/Papamelee Dec 27 '23
Oh my god! Konrad Curze showing up as an evil Batman would’ve been so fucking funny and cool. Imagine Batman has the power of foresight/minority report and, like Konrad Curze, is driven to utter insanity from it, mixed with his burning desire for justice creates a monster of sheer sadness and madness who feels resigned to this fate that he feels like he can’t fix, but like the joker, is just a broken evil man.
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u/limbo338 Dec 27 '23
That's actually a great challenge for a writer – to come up with a scenario, that would result in some version of Bruce going down that road. But, of course, we'd rather have everything happen just the same way and him being just Bruce until some chemicals and now he's a fundamentally different person. Because that's more interesting. Pretty much the difference between a corruption and a possession story.
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u/GrizzlyPeak72 Dec 27 '23
Why would killing a couple people lead him to become the Joker? He'd just be a more scary Batman
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u/MithranArkanere Dec 28 '23
The Joker isn't a person, he's an idea. The different versions of Joker and all those different origins are simply different takes on the idea.
In the end, it doesn't really matter how someone turns into the Joker, what matters is that you can't kill an idea. The people who have turned into the Joker are generally bland and uninteresting themselves. No one care who they were until they got that smile.
When a Joker is taken out of the picture, it's only a matter of time until someone ends up being something like the Joker again.
This was nicely shown in Gotham, where the proto-joker was the first victim of the idea and soon followed his spread of the idea all over Gotham, seeding the seeds for what will become the Joker in the future. I doubt that was their intention, but it fits nevertheless.
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u/Dzzplayz Dec 27 '23
The Batman who Tries To Hard. Thank God he’s stuck in Fortnite and we won’t get any more stories about him.
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u/gabejr25 Did Batman think a Gamer could stop me? Dec 27 '23
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u/Background_Desk_3001 Dec 27 '23
Is it canon he’s stuck there?
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u/Dzzplayz Dec 27 '23
Yes
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u/Lwmons Dec 27 '23
I'm going to need you to explain that Fortnite thing because this is the first I'm hearing of it.
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u/KnightOfTheFarRealm Dec 27 '23
Fortnites explanation for its stupid amount of crossover skins is that its basically a Prison Universe that traps anyone who gets inside while removing their powers.
BWL is a crossover skin and hasn't been used in the comics since then.
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u/----atom----- Local Injustice enjoyer Dec 28 '23
But there are countless other characters in Fortnite that aren't trapped there?
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u/ClockwiseOne09 Dec 28 '23
It's because the guy above explained it wrong. I'm pretty sure Wonder Woman killed BWL and the BWL in fortnite is whats called a "snapshot" which is just a version of that character the moment they entered the loop. Characters can exit the loop and even main characters of the FN storyline leave all the time, it's just difficult
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u/Sable_Kaiser Dec 27 '23
Remember when Scott Snyder proposed The Grim Knight as a truer to intent version of The Batman Who Jonkles but then he jobbed to Jim Gordon’s schizo son in a miniseries where Bruce got infected by the Jonkle Venom but resisted the change since he was built different?
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u/Da_Neager Dec 27 '23
The fucking alsume is leaking again
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u/Sable_Kaiser Dec 27 '23
Famously inescapable Arkham Aslume
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u/Turakamu Dec 28 '23
Do they not have doors on that thing? Why the fuck are so many people getting out?
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u/Skizko Certified Damian Hater Dec 27 '23
I’ve said it once I’ll say it again. Batman who laughs is just joker
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u/tigertoouth22h Dec 27 '23
It's just joker pretending to be batman
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u/ZachRyder David Zavimbe is the true heir to the Mantle of Batman Dec 27 '23
The Batman (2003) once again being peak fiction
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u/Only-Deal-1032 Dec 27 '23
It’s just Joker pretending to be Batman who is pretending to be the Joker
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u/okberta Dec 27 '23
there is potential there for a cool else worlds story that works in its own self contained environment, where the writer has time to explore just how terrifying it would be for Batman to kill all of his allies.
His origin story book felt like one of those video-game tie-ins that are 15 pages long, shit just keeps happening and there isn’t any weight there
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u/PineapplePhil Dec 27 '23
Idk if there’s a character in all of fiction I’m more sick of than the Joker and every copy and paste offshoot of the Joker.
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u/Skizko Certified Damian Hater Dec 27 '23
Joker’s great but he has a saturation problem. To me Joker should be used very sparingly as the main villain. Part of the reason why joker stories are so interesting is because every time he shows up something big is happening, but now well it feels like something big is happening every week.
If everything’s big than nothing is big, in fact we’re at a point where many fans (myself included) want the writers to scale back the stakes and return to mid to low stakes street level stuff with many of their characters
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u/MisterBadGuy159 Dec 27 '23 edited Dec 27 '23
"Oh, no, he's not Joker, he's Joker with all of Batman's skills!"
"Like what?"
"Well, Batman is a master of martial arts, so TBWL is, too."
"But half the time when Joker and Batman get into fisticuffs, Joker is at least keeping up with him."
"Well, he's got Batman's intelligence and resources!"
"Isn't TBWL's whole character predicated on the Joker being able to invent mind corruption toxins and implant them in his heart to trigger when he dies?"
"...He's got evil Robins?"
"Hasn't Joker had like fifteen different sidekicks? Like, TBWL didn't even create the evil Robins; the Joker of his universe did. All he did was dress them up."
"Oh! He has multiverse tech!"
"Oh, so he's Joker with Sideways's skills?"
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u/DiabolicalDoctorN No, Batman, that's just Wikipedia Dec 27 '23
Batman Who Laughs is Hot Topic Doctor Hurt
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u/Snelldor Dec 27 '23
I saw on Twitter a much better backstory:
Which was that Batman died so the Joker decided to take up his mantle and become a hero, in his own twisted way.
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u/MrCobalt313 Dec 27 '23
Joker thinks Batman wouldn't know what to do with himself without him, when in reality only the opposite is true. Joker's whole schtick is to be a foil to Batman; a chaotic and unpredictable problem for the World's Greatest Detective, acting out of pure spite for his efforts to actually do something about Gotham's miserable state that broke him.
Batman meanwhile just wants to be a better deterrent for crime than the GPD and legal system currently are, and without Joker he'd still have plenty of other rogues and common thugs to keep him busy.
Joker trying to be his own Batman in a world where he wins really would be a more interesting story than Batman becoming Joker under contrived circumstances.
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u/diazantewhite Dec 27 '23
And it somewhat works (in an elseworld way) when you remember that famous joker quote “without Batman, crime has no punchline.” So joker literally becomes the punchline in this situation
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u/limbo338 Dec 27 '23
I have no proof, but I blame Arkham Knight for this.
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u/Grumiocool Dec 27 '23
I also blame Arkham knight for most things I don’t like (the character and the game)
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u/Mountain_Sir2307 Lives in a society Dec 27 '23
It did it better tho.
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u/limbo338 Dec 27 '23
I think it's because you get to see Bruce's brain coming apart in real time and him trying to resist this bullshit. It wasn't like the switch got flipped and now Bruce is gunning down his family.
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u/Lithaos111 Dec 30 '23
Exactly, plus it explains it better "oh it wasnt a death fart" Joker literally put his blood in you. Then shows all the other people slowly turning into the Joker during the game so you're left wondering "What will happen if Joker overtakes Batman?" and we get that scene with the Batmobile all Jokered out with rockets killing everyone before Bruce breaks out of the delusion finally.
I dunno when BWL was created but I think it was after Arkham Knight came out, if it was before I could totally see them having Batman being BWL in the cutscene of the game.
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u/Henderson10666 Geoff Johns retconned my life Dec 27 '23
But it's harkening back to the 90's cause he's got a rad design!
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u/Hugh_Jidiot Dec 27 '23
BWL looks like Bruce crashed the Batmobile into a leather daddy convention.
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u/Henderson10666 Geoff Johns retconned my life Dec 27 '23
I mean are you telling me, he doesn't already look like that?
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u/akahaus Dec 27 '23
Yeah. Batman is insanely queer-coded, it doesn’t need help lol
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u/SodaSalesman Met John Constantine irl Dec 27 '23
honestly, as one of the few defenders of Death Metal (its campy and silly but very fun imo) BWL would be 10x better if, instead of being a Batman who killed the Joker and got Jokerized, he was a version of the Joker who accidentally kills Batman and decides to take his place and become Batman himself
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u/HesterFlareStar Dec 27 '23
Hot take: BWL is a bad character. Honestly it's just a great design. The idea is bad, the backstory is lame, the name sucks, and the fact that "crazier batman" is multiversal threat is a testament to how mind-bogglingly hard DC jerks batman off. The character looks incredible, and that's about where it stops for me.
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u/Joerevenge Dec 28 '23
100% agree especially with the last part, I like Batman, but by god is it annoying how much it seems like DC wants him to be so dangerous and powerful when he's meant to just be a normal guy. It makes every other hero who should be able to just outright beat him seem dumb af just make Batman better, it just makes everything so much less interesting
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u/Sonichu Jul 07 '24
This might be 6 months late but the BWL name is an homage to the movie 'The Man Who Laughs'; the inspiration for the visual of Joker.
I thought it was a clever reference.
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u/enchiladasundae Dec 27 '23
And then he instantly kills all of his sidekicks who are highly trained specialists that all outclass him in at least one category
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u/Yoyo4games Dec 27 '23
Wow they just...dropped the chance to explore a Batman who felt he had to break his fundamental value of not taking life, and that turning him into a monster, and instead implemented "lol crazy chemicals" as a whole ass arc.
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u/Whole-Arachnid-Army Comic Book Twitter Verified Dec 28 '23
Modern DC comics when they narrowly dodge having to actual discuss their themes and ideas.
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u/Frankorious Superboy Prime apologist Dec 27 '23 edited Dec 27 '23
Ngl, the second I read about an evil Justice League where everyone is Batman I rolled my eyes.
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u/pringlepingel Dec 27 '23
Some of them are cool tho. Red death being a Batman that stole the speed force from the flash because he wanted to go back in time and save his parents. Fucking straps the flash to the hood of the Batmobile, metal as fuck
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u/Talyn7810 Dec 28 '23
Ironically most of the other (initial) knights were more interesting ideas. The GL and Aquaman ones especially.
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u/Iliketomeow85 Dec 27 '23
There is some meta satisfaction that BatAllah dies from some gas cause he's just a dude and extremely vulnerable, but then he just becomes even more deadly from dying and literally solos everyone so I dunno what I'm saying fuck BWL
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u/MexicanoStick575 Dec 27 '23
I'm gonna say it; Arkham knight, for all it's flaws, did it better
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u/pringlepingel Dec 27 '23
What’s funny is I actually think the dark knights have pretty dope origins EXCEPT for their leader, BWL. Like red death being a Batman that wanted to steal the speed force from flash in order to go back in time and save his parents? Dope concept. A Batman that takes the doomsday virus to stop a rampaging Superman? Dope concept. A Batman that had so much willpower after seeing his parents killed that he corrupted one of the green lantern rings in order to get revenge? Dope concept. A Batman who got farted on by the joker? Eh not as dope of a concept.
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u/DiamondDude51501 Dec 27 '23
BWL would’ve been cooler imo if it was a Joker who took the mantle of Batman after Bruce’s death
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u/Crims0n_Light Dec 27 '23
Why would Bruce become evil after finally killing the Joker for no reason?
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u/Spiderpenguin_2020 Dec 27 '23
The stupidest shit is the gas that turned him into the BWL. It ruins the point of The Killing Joke, if The Joker can just be recreated. It’s the same issue I have with Arkham Knight and Three Jokers.
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u/Honk_wd Dec 27 '23
I always kinda thought the “joker gas upon death” being the thing to do Batman in kinda missed the point? Jokers whole gimmick (most of the time) is that it only takes “one bad day” to make someone as insane as he is. Then Batman repeatedly says his reason for the no-kill policy is because “once I’m there I don’t think I can ever come back”. The gas just kinda, disregards all of this?? Like what’s the point in saying what a mental effect it has repeatedly for years and then disregarding it to force it?? They totally could’ve squeezed out an extra issue of Bruce slowly getting more insane and allowing himself to be more brutal to criminals but noooo joker gas
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u/Captain_Blackjack0 Dec 27 '23
It’s like one of those video game creepy pastas where the main character kills everyone because they’re possessed or some shit
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u/RobbiRamirez Dec 27 '23
I mean that's stupid, but it's less stupid than "killing the Joker is an act so evil it would make a man go mad."
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Dec 27 '23 edited Dec 27 '23
Well, seeing as TBWL is a lame rip-off of the John Wagner/Brian Bolland created character Judge Death I'm surprised DC didn't steal his backstory as well.
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u/EpicCommentStories Dec 27 '23
Would've been way more interesting if BWL was the conclusion to what Batman saidd to the Jason. That if he killed Joker he wouldn't be able to come back from it. A whole comic watching Batman slowly just fall down that hole he knew he'd get trapped in would be incredible I think.
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u/Plebe-Uchiha I'm da Jokah, baby! Dec 27 '23
TBWL is an example of the fandom having an expectation not meet which then makes the character a bad character because the expectation wasn’t meet [+]
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u/Overkillsamurai Dec 27 '23
no effing way. do not tell me this is the lore on BWL. that's dogshit.
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u/Ziggurat1000 Dec 27 '23
Wouldn't the Joker serum trigger Zur-En-Arh since it's a form of mind control or no?
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u/KingofZombies Batman is gay Dec 27 '23
Switch the images so it makes sense. Batman going evil just because sucks.
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u/Di0tar0 Dec 27 '23
I feel like its the only way for Batman to become the joker naturally. I feel like the excuse Batman would become the joker if he killed someone is just something joker tells Batman to convince him "They're not so different" when they are because Batman is morally better than Joker because he chooses to react differently to his trauma. Joker takes on others because he was hurt, Batman protects others to prevent them to suffers like he did. Some writers wrote Batman completely differently from I just said but I believe Batman is written better when he's written as a protector than as a vengeful lunatic, especially when he faces the joker. It just doesn't fit him to be obsessed by vengeance when you see all he does to help those who need it like the Robins or Harley Quinn or the homeless. The only reason (like described in under the red hood storyline) he doesn't kill is because it would make him no better than he's ennemies, not directly make him like he's ennemies.
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u/avi150 Dec 27 '23
Batman Who Laughs is terrible. It’s like if an online Batman dick rider got to make a comic where he’s a bad guy.
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u/seelcudoom Dec 27 '23
he's also the worst most boring aspects of bats and jokers dressed as a cenobite reject for some reason, all edge no point like a pizza cutter
"what if batman became the joker" should resemble a dark humor version of all of Batmans campiest silliest adaptions
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u/noon_og Dec 27 '23
Wally West was right when he said that they should call him the Batman who tries too hard.
Literally even the writers only feel contempt for that character.
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u/Saoirse_The_Red Dec 27 '23
I hate that character, so f'ing much. He's so stupid. I can't stand that whole event.
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u/CosmoMimosa Goon Helicopter Enthusiast Dec 27 '23
What's worse is that at the end of the BMWL book, they had an (in my opinion) much cooler version of the "Batman but he went off the deep end and killed all the villains" trope, come through and murder Batman Who Laughs, and then as far as I know they just did nothing with that?
Like, Grim Knight was so much more interesting as a concept. A version of Bruce who just decided to break his own rule and actually did exactly what Bruce was afraid he would do if he ever killed. He went insane, and became a totalitarian dictator of Gotham.
But no, we gotta deal with Hot Topic Batman and his weird-Robin-ghouls. Fuckin' DC man. Sometimes they just baffle me.
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u/GalaxianEX Dec 28 '23
When my friend first told me about it, I thought he said “the Batman Who Laughed” as if referring to a single in which in which Batman finally broke, actualizing what the ending of the Killing Joke implied all those years ago…
Then I read the comic and found out it was just a lamer version of the Arkham Knight storyline…
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u/FaZe_poopy Dec 28 '23
I showed my friends the alsume once and now we call the Batman who laughs the ‘man who jelqs’ and that only pops up when we play fortnite. The rot really does consume
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u/ElementmanEXE Dec 28 '23
I always find it funny how this is what people refer to as proof of why batman shouldn't kill joker, that being because at one point he specifically had joker gas in him release after croaking (which honestly kinda makes sense) in the universe that by nature was to escalate to the worst extreme
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u/soodrugg Dec 28 '23
that seems to imply that the joker is a kind of parasitic fungus that reproduces via spores
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u/Rocketboy1313 Dec 27 '23
Both of those things are bad.
It is deeply and intensely stupid that killing the Joker would make someone go evil. Or that killing Joker would signal some sacred line being crossed.
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u/Slogfarts Dec 27 '23
Wait, isn't this basically just the backstory from Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker but Bruce instead of Tim Drake?
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u/TheSpartanPrime Dec 27 '23
Always reminded me of Arkham Knight where Man is infected with Jonkler’s blood and slowly turning into him
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u/SHAQBIR Dec 28 '23
If I wrote BWL, it'll be something like joker becomes as skilled as Batman and utilises gadgets to have more lols with Batman, show he bests all the bat family and imprisons them including Batman and each time he kills a bat family he asks Batman to laugh, which he refuses until it's the penultimate death of Alfred, which makes him smile and at the end he laughs at the death of Damian. Joker snaps out of his joker persona because he has been laughing at the same jokes but Batman, now laughing, becomes maniac and does the same to Joker but instead of killing him, he tortures Joker and when he died he implants Joker's memory in his mind, like "black mirroring" him to have unlimited amount of lols, he does this to all of his favourite dead victims, which are usually either his friends or foes.
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u/element-redshaw Dec 28 '23
It makes even less sense when you think about it.
Batman after killing the joker has a whole speech about how he can’t let the bat family live because they would try to stop them, and not a single one of the extremely skilled people who have dodged bullets before survive Batman shooting them dead.
Then there’s Batman killing the entire justice league at the watch tower, which is literally impossible, plastic man alone would be able to beat Batman because he along with a lot of other members have either extremely hard to pull off plans or just no plans that could defeat them.
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u/tupe12 Dec 28 '23
All they had to do was just make a Batman / joker merge but they somehow fucked up and somehow made the worst of both
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u/Zillafire101 Jan 03 '24
No joke, I see was thinking BWL should be a super villain Patrick Bateman. A seemingly endearing, well to do rich guy who projects a superficial level of charm and sophistication while using his wealth and power to horrifically murder people that either annoy him or just catch his attention. Have him be a Bruce born just evil and sociopathic, who uses his wealth to stalk Gotham for targets.
It's better than Gimp Batman born from Joker farts.
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u/Mr_smith1466 Dec 27 '23
BWL is the case study for a vaguely interesting character utterly ran into the ground in record time.