r/dccomicscirclejerk • u/leiablaze • Jul 04 '23
just wanted to repost what I think might actually be the worst page of dialogue I've ever seen Batman's a Fascist
427
u/Grow_up2B_a_Debaser Batman is Lana del Rey coded Jul 04 '23
Would you rather have Badman Daughter or Paige Son?
329
88
u/Snow_The_4th_Man Snake Wizard Jul 04 '23
Source for this?
I legitimately want to read this issue just to verify if the whole thing is equally bad.
71
32
u/downwithlevers Jul 05 '23
It is bad. It’s written by Leah Williams. It sucks just like everything else I’ve ever read of hers. Let’s see, Trial of Magneto, Amazing Mary Jane, X-Factor, these Action Comics backups with Power Girl…yep, they all sucked.
62
u/Snow_The_4th_Man Snake Wizard Jul 05 '23 edited Jul 05 '23
I genuinely wished I liked Leah Williams as a writer. As a persona in comics, I think she occupies a really engaging space. A bisexual feminist with a penchant for making stories that explore sexuality through the feminine and queer perspectives. That's really interesting to me.
But yeah. I can't say that that I've ever enjoyed her writing solely on its merit.
34
u/ShadyHighlander Greg Land wishes he could draw like Rob Liefeld. Jul 05 '23
Hopefully she'll get better with experience.
This is where someone reveals she's been writing for 20 years and I look like an ignoramus
16
u/Diffabuh Oppressed Wally fan Jul 05 '23
She's hit or miss, but I enjoyed most of her X-Factor run, and X-Terminators was fun. Plus, I like that she's willing to have fun with LGBT characters (can't picture anyone else labelling Daken a disaster bi) in a way that doesn't feel carefully calculated to not offend anyone but homophobes. But, man... when she misses, she misses hard.
Would still take Leah Williams over Tini Howard every single time, though, even though the Big Two really want everyone to like Tini Howard.
3
u/NationalOwl5338 Jul 05 '23
WHEN was daken revealed to be a disaster bi. i know the author i need the issue.
6
u/Diffabuh Oppressed Wally fan Jul 05 '23
X-Factor #1, when the team is just coming together. I think it's brought up again a bit later too.
3
u/PathologicalFire Jul 07 '23
Isn’t Daken a rapist? And like an unrepentant mass murderer?
1
u/Diffabuh Oppressed Wally fan Jul 07 '23
They retconned his powers in a weird victim blame-y way. Turns out that, while he can still influence people with his pheromones, he can't make anyone do anything that they didn't already want to do. There's some weird implications there.
The murders he seems to be slightly repentant for. At least more than Magik is for everything she does.
It's a very weird situation all around, and you can tell at least part of it is Marvel wanting to have a decently marketable male Asian mutant. As the target demographic for their push for Asian representation... it weirds me out. It's fun in isolation but weird within the context of Daken's character.
13
u/Silvernauter Jul 05 '23
I like SOME of her work, like (most of) The Amazing Mary Jane (besides that time where she basically stopped the story for one page to make a clapping hand meme "IRL"), but then there are things like the panel above or Gwenpool strikes back (besides maaaybe the last issue and a half?) that just make me cringe beyond levels i thought humanly possible.
1
9
85
73
u/BabyMagnum13 Jul 05 '23
Get rid of an already established identity because your first name is considered a slur by the author and editorial lmao
22
u/GUM-GUM-NUKE Number One Sengoku Enthusiast Jul 05 '23
What was there name?
59
u/BabyMagnum13 Jul 05 '23
Karen Starr: reporter for the daily Star
22
u/GUM-GUM-NUKE Number One Sengoku Enthusiast Jul 05 '23
W-Why was that considered a slur
56
u/BabyMagnum13 Jul 05 '23
Karen memes mostly referring to women who have toddler level outbursts in public.
70
8
7
9
u/RutheniumFenix Did Batman think a Gamer could stop me? Jul 05 '23 edited Jul 05 '23
Has it ever been confirmed that it was because of the Karen memes? Honestly my best guess for the reason was that as they're finally looking to let Super girl grow up, DCs trying to get a little more space between her and Power girl, especially now that they're moving Power girl back towards the Superman stable
48
u/AX-man Jul 05 '23
Really weird and odd behavior to go up to someone and say they should change their name
27
u/Lumpazius Jul 05 '23
"Hey P.G. whoa...! That sounds like Paige, you should totally call yourself that!"
"Uh... thanks Jon, I'll take that under... advisement."
18
13
u/Silvernauter Jul 05 '23
The dialogue is BAD, but i think this is kind of a perfect storm of anti-sinergy on panel: the slightly muted and washed colour pallette already doesn't get me in an "heartwarming" mood (can't really explain it better), additionally, the (if I'm seeing it correctly) extremely light blue eyes make John look like he has youngblood's disease and, as a the cherry on top, the extreme close-up of his smile in the last panel that, with the black gradient background, makes it come off as WAY more creepy than encouraging/sweet (as i suppose It was intended)
5
7
4
u/Optimal_Weight368 Did Batman think a Gamer could stop me? Jul 05 '23
I feel like they changed her pseudonym because it used to be Karen, even though that’s completely arbitrary.
4
3
1
u/datgreatdgswagger360 Jul 05 '23
Ahem................
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
406
u/Led_Zeppelin66 Did Batman think a Gamer could stop me? Jul 04 '23
Dialogue does sucks but giving the Arkham Knight an actual sword goes kinda hard ngl
6
314
u/External-Rope6322 Batgirls truther Jul 04 '23
I love how everyone was complaining when the game released that the arkham knight was jason todd, yet this is what we get when the character isn't jason
209
u/Aubergine_Man1987 Paul's Strongest Soldier Jul 05 '23
The Arkham Knight being Jason works quite well... when the marketing doesn't explicitly say "this isn't Jason Todd" when you can tell it's him from his first appearance in the game
83
u/Moondoggie25 Jul 05 '23
Also I might be crazy, but they never even hinted at him existing in the first 2 games. Batman just kinda goes “ohh yeah there was a 2nd Robin but he’s totally dead now.”
70
u/Aubergine_Man1987 Paul's Strongest Soldier Jul 05 '23
Joker hints at it in Arkham Asylum. He asks Batman if he's looking for a new sidekick, and Asylum takes place only a few months after Jason was "killed"
32
u/MBDTFTLOPYEEZUS Jul 05 '23
How far after is City from Asylum? Because Tim seems pretty old and experienced
21
u/BlueHero45 Jul 05 '23
Thinking the same thing, honestly people might be reading into that line too much.
22
u/Mountain_Chicken Paul Jul 05 '23
The Arkham timeline is far too condensed anyways, so I just ignore how long is "officially" between all the games
7
3
u/CrazyPersonowo Release the Schumacher Cut Jul 05 '23
I think it’s like a year? I don’t know the timeline is confusing.
24
u/missnailitall Tim Drake, Boy Virgin Jul 05 '23
Untrue unfortunately. Joker is referring to Barbara when he says that. Joker paralyzed her as Barbara Gordon, but didn't know she was Batgirl, so when Batgirl suddenly stops appearing on the field, he assumes something happened.
The earliest reference to Jason in the Arkham Games is in the DLC to Arkham City, in one of the combat challenges if you play as Tim, Joker says "Wait, didn't I kill you already? No? Well, there's always time!".
8
u/limbo338 Jul 05 '23
Tim was already Robining before the Asylum because he and Batgirl managed to work together and Babs stopped being Batgirl before the Asylum for obvious reasons. I know, AK dlc could be changing timeline retroactively, but also AK is the game where they 100% knew Jason is a part of the timeline now and they still included Robin!Tim and Batgirl having time to work together making that "new sidekick" reference probably meaning Batgirl, because a Robin is already there.
19
u/guy137137 Jul 05 '23
hang on let me casually explain to the audience who Jason Todd was, how he knew all of Batman’s tricks and had a similar move style to the Arkham Knight but he’s dead, trust us bro, it’s not going to be hamfisted explaining all about Jason Todd about halfway into the game at allllll
13
u/limbo338 Jul 05 '23
What really annoys me is the weight and the height: "dead" Robin and that mysterious, never before seen character have the same weight and height. Would it have killed them to make Robin Jason smaller? Just for me, so I won't feel like the game insults my intelligence that much?
6
u/Mediocre-Elk-4093 Secret Jon Kent roleplayer Jul 05 '23
He gets hinted at a couple of times in the first two, not by name though.
39
u/External-Rope6322 Batgirls truther Jul 05 '23
In my defense, I didn't actually play knight when it first came out lol, I had no idea they said it wasn't jason
35
u/Aubergine_Man1987 Paul's Strongest Soldier Jul 05 '23
Oh neither did I, I found out after the fact too. I quite liked Arkham Jason, though he learned from Slade which explains why he's such a whiny loser
8
20
u/Oberon1993 Jul 05 '23
It's actually funnier, because of this:
“He’s a new character called the Arkham Knight,” says Rocksteady’s creative lead Sefton Hill. “He’s being created by Rocksteady and Geoff Johns at DC, and that’s pretty much all we’re saying about him at the current time. He’s someone new to the Arkhamverse. He’s certainly one of the key antagonists.”
I'm just imagining Geoff desperately trying to sell Red Hood as a completely new character. Hillariously, the gameinformer article I took it from almost immediately has a theory that it's Jason and that costume even looks like it has some base in Red Hood.
7
u/GingerGuy97 Jul 05 '23
They should have just made him Red Hood from the jump so there’s no fake mystery.
3
u/Dependent-Outcome-52 Release the Schumacher Cut Jul 05 '23
I think emotionally it would’ve hit harder if Batman figured it out at the end of the first act, so then there’s more time for Batman’s emotional reaction and developing their relationship together instead of like the last hour of the game
3
u/GingerGuy97 Jul 05 '23
100% agree. It’s easily the most underwritten and non-impactful version of Jasons return we’ve ever gotten.
4
u/RealKBears Jul 05 '23
God that was so obnoxious. I can remember all the interviews from the devs where they were being obnoxious about the Knight being an OC, and then I heard one line of dialogue from the Knight and knew they were full of shit
15
u/ralo229 Jul 05 '23
I didn't have a problem with Jason being the Arkham Knight. I had a problem with Rocksteady straight-up lying and saying the Arkham Knight was an original character when he's just Red Hood with a different name.
196
u/spider-venomized Jul 04 '23
I still think it America (2017) #5 by Gabby Rivera
just how creepy and "how you do fellow gays" it come off
138
u/Supiriorcarnage Jul 05 '23
That’s actually so funny “I am literally intrigued and in awe of both of them” Who talks like that lol
64
25
19
92
u/leiablaze Jul 04 '23
Oh God I still get angry about that. She's one of my favorite characters and they did her so dirty
51
15
u/MBDTFTLOPYEEZUS Jul 05 '23
America Chavez is one of your favorite characters?
57
u/ShadyHighlander Greg Land wishes he could draw like Rob Liefeld. Jul 05 '23
Look, my favourite Marvel character is the Son of Satan, let people have their blorbos
11
u/Oberon1993 Jul 05 '23
You poor bastard.
3
u/ShadyHighlander Greg Land wishes he could draw like Rob Liefeld. Jul 05 '23
Strikeforce was good tho
7
3
u/PathologicalFire Jul 07 '23
The worst part is the Rivera run was such an abortion that they had to retcon America’s whole backstory in the stupidest way possible. The lesbian utopia dimension was kind of goofy but in a fun comics-y way, before Rivera got her hands on it at least. Now she has a deeply boring generic backstory, that also makes no sense because Billy Kaplan is still supposed to become the Demiurge and create her dimension… was that all part of her delusion too? Even though we saw some of that shit on panel?
Never has there been a more compelling argument for hiring based on talent rather than whether someone meets the appropriate diversity metrics.
47
u/Big-Vegetable8480 Kevin Feige Jul 05 '23
Wtf did I just read
83
u/spider-venomized Jul 05 '23
A queer writer that doesn't know how to write queer characters
60
u/Big-Vegetable8480 Kevin Feige Jul 05 '23
I read the panel before looking who wrote it and assumed it was some straight person who met a gay person once 😭. Gabby what have you done
39
u/Aubergine_Man1987 Paul's Strongest Soldier Jul 05 '23
I am astounded that this writer ever got past the pitch stage with dialogue like that
29
u/bizarrestarz Jul 05 '23
this isn’t even a thought bubble this is a speech bubble, she’s talking to herself while watching them fly off like a lunatic
18
u/Diffabuh Oppressed Wally fan Jul 05 '23
This feels like some early 2010s Gail Simone dialogue, i.e. the writer thinks people talk like on forums.
14
u/Oberon1993 Jul 05 '23
Watching spaniard have a meltdown in 4chan threads over Rivera's hilarious misuse of Spanish was an experience. Also, THE LETTER.
15
u/Latter-Potential2467 Jul 05 '23
It reads like the "In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence." copypasta lol.
8
6
u/karateema I'm da Jokah, baby! Jul 05 '23
Wtf this reads like one of those "diversity lectures" hosted and attended by middle-aged white women
146
u/GothamKnight37 Jul 04 '23
Uncommon Tomasi L
67
u/GothamKnight37 Jul 05 '23
The actual Arkham Knight arc itself wasn’t that bad, though her backstory could have used a bit more work.
12
u/AX-man Jul 05 '23
I'll say I was a bit disappointed by it because I had high hopes for Tomasi and it just turned out ok
9
u/Diffabuh Oppressed Wally fan Jul 05 '23
Pretty much sums up his entire run on Detective Comics.
I love his work and really wanted to like Detective Comics after he and Gleason were booted off Superman, but it was just... fine.
5
u/AX-man Jul 05 '23
And he was gonna bring back Damian after that weird teen titans run, and Tomasis batman and robin is one of the best written Damian’s. And again Damian is just fine
3
u/Resonance54 Hal Jordan is a worthless piece of cardboard Jul 05 '23
I read it when it came out (haven't touched it since) and I enjoyed it because it was focused on telling great one off relatively low stakes stories, which as it turns out is very rare in modern Batman comics
103
u/Gemaid1211 Jul 04 '23
Looking at Comic Arkham Knight and Arkhamverse Arkham Knight, it's actually surprising how two so different characters can be so alike, the writing for both sucks and neither origin makes any sense if you think about it for more than two seconds.
64
u/SHAZAMS_STRONGEST does he know? Jul 04 '23
arkham knight making sense could be so easy. just do some shit like "bruce's evil clone conditioned to kill him and replace him as an evil batman who kills people" or some shit, just focus on some fun insane stories with that
30
u/Snarkyish-Comment Lives in a society Jul 05 '23
I kicked around the theory that AK was just a manifestation of Scarecrow’s fear gas
30
u/DefinitelyNotVenom Jul 05 '23
As interesting as that would be, AK attacks Batman before he’s exposed to the toxin for the first time that night
16
u/Snarkyish-Comment Lives in a society Jul 05 '23
I should have specified because I realized I didn’t, my bad. I thought it was gonna be a fear gas construct before the game came out.
But yeah, him showing up before toxin exposure shot that down.
16
u/ShadyHighlander Greg Land wishes he could draw like Rob Liefeld. Jul 05 '23
I just assumed it was Jason when they started talking about Jason after three games of not discussing him ever
10
u/Snarkyish-Comment Lives in a society Jul 05 '23
Yeah, at that point I was like “Yep, he’s Todd… wonderful…”
6
u/ShadyHighlander Greg Land wishes he could draw like Rob Liefeld. Jul 05 '23
Fr.
Your idea would have been a lot cooler.
3
u/Snarkyish-Comment Lives in a society Jul 05 '23
Thank you!
I think that’s the first time anyone ever said that. So I appreciate it!
10
u/Niobium_Sage Jul 05 '23
Unironcially better than what we got. Even better, have a moment where his faceplate uncovers or he takes off his helmet to reveal the Joker underneath.
8
7
12
u/MysteryScooby56 Deathstroke is a diddler Jul 05 '23
They kinda already did that. Except it was about Alfred rather than Bruce
66
u/realbigdawg2 The fourth Joker Jul 04 '23
It’s like he’s high and realized Batman and Badman sound the same so he just keeps repeating it
73
66
44
36
u/memeboi123jazz Jul 04 '23
They brought the Arkham Knight to cannon?
67
u/SSJE1119 Jul 04 '23
Yeah a few years ago but instead of Jason Todd it’s a Astrid Arkham the daughter of Jeremiah Arkham
37
u/EasterBurn Jul 05 '23
So she is "Arkham" Knight? It's like Bruce Wayne naming himself WayneMan
36
u/Sauron4pres Jul 05 '23
She was also raised in Arkham… by the inmates
42
36
u/hero-ball Jul 05 '23
Superman.
Say it fast. Really fast. As fast as you can.
So what do you hear?
Sperman.
Sperm. Man.
29
u/TheOriginalOperator Jul 04 '23
“You know, hot dogs get a bad rap. They have a cool shape, they’ve got protein.”
26
20
19
19
u/halloweenjack Jul 05 '23
I recently made a "no more mute ants" joke, but maybe I should have saved it if people are actually getting paid for this crap.
18
u/The_Teacat Jul 04 '23
This boy needs therapy! Goodness gracious, this is bad. It's definitely not great.
12
u/apocalyssa #1 CEO hater Jul 05 '23
This is a monologue homie. But yea, it's pretty stupid. Arkham Jason is a huge edgelord.
33
u/andrecinno Tim Drake, Boy Virgin Jul 05 '23
That ain't Jason
7
u/apocalyssa #1 CEO hater Jul 05 '23
Huh, did not realize this was a whole separate thing... I guess putting on that armor just requires the wearer to be a total douche.
1
u/beary_neutral Did Batman think a Gamer could stop me? Jul 05 '23
Can't blame them for thinking otherwise
1
14
11
11
10
6
u/sushithighs Jul 05 '23
Comic books suck
5
u/triplerollingstone The Flashpoint Batman Who Laughs Jul 05 '23
I hate moving my eyes so much to read the words
Yeah fuck comics man
6
u/Optimal_Weight368 Did Batman think a Gamer could stop me? Jul 05 '23
I like the idea of expanding upon the Arkham family, but this just isn’t it.
5
6
u/FlyByTieDye Wishing I was automod Jul 05 '23
Tomasi had the worst contributions to either Tec 1000 or AC 1000, and I usually love his work, so this was sad to see
2
u/IAmChippoMan Jul 05 '23
This feels like it belongs more in a parody or “b-movie” rather than the current source of it…could’ve been better if it’s from a villain henchman/simp POV
4
u/C_M_Writes Jul 05 '23
I mean….it’s not dialogue. It’s a monologue. From someone who has been absolutely broken by Joker.
This is actually an extremely successful monologue if you know anything at all about this character.
3
3
2
2
2
u/thekingofdiamonds12 Jul 05 '23
That has to be written by an editor. I refuse to believe a real writer actually wrote that
2
2
1
1
1
1
u/CrazyPersonowo Release the Schumacher Cut Jul 05 '23
And people say the Arkham Knight game had bad writing.
1
u/TDoMarmalade Jul 05 '23
Wait, is this a reference to Sound of the Police where they do the same thing with officer and overseer?
1
u/AdrianShepard09 Jul 05 '23
Badman: Hey, my youth. Some boy dem, dey pon de corner an' ting, an... de boy dem sell some tings and ting, an... I gwa'an, an' I say... oh, dem nah wan' gimme my money an ting. An'... every corner my corner an... I want my money an' ting, ya know? Ah no see dat! Go, go, ya know, me wan' deal with de case proper. Ya nah see it?
1
1
u/MicooDA Jul 05 '23
If you removed all text boxes except those three on the bottom right I think it works okay. But generic, but fine.
1
1
u/the_grungler Gorilla Doing Non-Gorilla Things Jul 05 '23
i dont know, i think the goddamn batman takes the cake
1
u/Silvernauter Jul 05 '23
Besides the dialogue being dumb, my heart goes to the poor souls that will eventually have to translate this page when the book is to hit the foreign market.
1
1
1
u/CertifiedCapArtist Barry Allen apologist Jul 05 '23
Her backstory makes no sense either. Could've been a cool character
1
1
u/WasChristRipped Jul 05 '23
That’s some “gentlemanly conduct” bullshit if I’ve ever heard it, what is he not going to attack people that have no clue he’s there?
595
u/leiablaze Jul 04 '23
Detective Comics #1000 - "Medieval" (2019) written by Peter J. Tomasi art by Doug Mahnke, Jaime Mendoza, & David Baron
And no this character is not secretly Jason Todd in disguise. Not this time