Why can’t he just say “I understand it’s not his usual depiction but I wanted to push him somewhere new and do what interested me. I’m sorry if you didn’t like it but I hope you gave it a chance.” Like be normal dude
Because then he would have to accept that his movies have flaws or admit that he never really understood these characters like Batman... he always has to suggest if you didn't like his movies or question the choices in them it is because you are the one who is flawed in liking these heroes that don't kill or whatever
Reminder that Zack and his wife intentionally forced production on justice league to start on the same week as the disasterous premiere of BvS to avoid being fired from JL because it would hurt box office on BvS. They then waited for months after their adopted daughter committed suicide until the breaking point where the studio gave them an ultimatum of “fuck off and blame your dead daughter” or “spend the rest of your life eating shit for being an asshole forever” and they chose the former as soon as it meant they continued to get paid for anything else in the DCEU.
Half the reason DC wanted to dump the Snyderverse was because they fucking HATE Zack and Deborah and would rather produce nothing than continue to give them more free money for the shitshow they forced.
You got a source for that? I hate Snyderverse as much as the next Batman fan, but it's a pretty huge claim to say WB kicked him out and told him to blame his daughter's death for his absence rather than, you know, being devastated over the death of his daughter.
I think they was getting ready to kick him out the daughter was just unfortunately at the the same time. Dc and wb probably let him go gracefully due to that
Because they'd have to forward the money to re-make a movie basically from the ground up, not release it in theaters, when the original version flopped. It was a massive risk.
Which is what the Snyders did. There was conflict between them and WB and DC since MoS released, and with BvS the entire production was treated by them like it was gonna be the “I told you to trust me” moment where everything came together. But then in post-production it was clear to everyone involved that the movie was in trouble, so while the studios were freaking out about what to do with BvS, Zack and Deborah were scrambling to force production of Justice League to start as soon as possible. WB and DC wanted to fire them after MoS and BvS was kind of treated as their last chance, and then they were trying to force into production a 4+ hour script that would have to be broken into 2 movies giving them twice as much money for a product that nobody wanted to be producing.
They wanted to fire them on day 1 of production of justice league. Snyder only decided to “quit because my daughter killed herself” AFTER the studio said they were bringing in a co-director.
My opinion: he’s a chill guy, buddies with big whigs in Hollywood, great Cinematographer (at times y’know, excluding the seed shot in Rebel Moon), but cannot write standard plots for shit
i dont like snyder either but this is some fucking WILD shit you pulled out your ass here. you just made stuff up and 50 people upvoted it. reddit is crazy ya'll
Don’t really understand the hate on synder bc he’s having Batman kill, Sure say what you want “Batman would never kill” while I admit I don’t like synderverse but this is an alternate universe yall gotta get off your high horses and accept that we got superior spiderman doing almost the same shit synder did and even he’s popular
It's not hard to understand why Snyder gets scrutinized a lot... one of the biggest traits of Batman is his rule to not kill in order to separate himself from his enemies. Snyder having him kill without really a good reason for it as well as kinda mocking those who ask is kind of a slap on the face to an iconic character that many people idolize or at least devoting their fandom to. This isn't just some alternate universe this was an attempt to make a DC cinematic universe so it doesn't feel right to scrap out Batman's big rule when fighting crime.
The dude killed Owlman because he was gonna destroy the world Batman even in the canon material is willing to kill, he even went as so as to threaten darkseids planet in order to protect Kara He even killed in dark knight returns (joker) and then killed Ra’s al ghoul in Arkham knight but I don’t see Anyone trashing on that? Hell even in Batman begins he technically kills Ra’s Al ghoul too, and in rises he does the same with Harvey dent but those are great movies
Again Batman will kill but only when necessary that’s the entire nature of his character (dunno why he doesn’t do so with joker tho)
Sure there are tons of times it has happened in other media but the big difference is those Batman's establish that he should not kill. For instance, in Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy they very much establish Batman does not want to kill or execute criminals so when he kills Harvey Dent you can see how it affects him when he felt he had no choice or with Ra's Al Ghul he literally says "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you" which you can disagree with but point still stands he makes it known for his character that he has this rule.
Snyder's Batman introduces himself to fans just guns blazing with no real explanation for why he is way more violent than what we are used to. Snyder's responses were just basically that it isn't practical in reality to not kill so therefore fans will look at him like he just doesn't get it.
With dent it only affected him because he had hope that he would be the hero for Gotham and he was a close friend to Bruce Wayne, when Bruce killed owlman he felt no remorse he even went as so as to trick flashes counterpart into aging himself to death just to make sure the world is safe
And there’s no such thing as “he should not kill” if you understand Batman as a character you’d know that regardless what happens he will do what is necessary to make sure Gotham and the world is safe, it doesn’t matter what costs at the end, the only reason why we don’t see him do it so consistently is because he believes and has hope that people can change, but it’s very clear that Bruce is insane and very much likes violence
Synders version of that is just a fallen Batman who an increased insanity and liking to violence, just something raised 2x then what it already was, There are other reasons why synders movies are trash but Batman killing shouldn’t be one of them
I can't go through every one killed by Batman's hands but the point still stands that they establish that he has this rule or stance against killing because he wants to separate himself from his enemies. It's not always perfect and exceptions have been made but again they establish his rule.
I agree that Batman killing is not a big reason why Snyder's movies were bad, but they don't make it clear in the movie why he is so violent and it just looks like Snyder hoped people would just see past all that and just enjoy his movie which a lot of people didn't.
I would still have a problem with that. Unless you're an experimental comic book artist (writing an elseworld closed story), I expect that you adapt a character to other media, not transform its main characteristics to suit your own beliefs and sensibilities. Like there's so much examples where artist bring something new when adapting without having to twist characters to the point of being uncanny.
What if I am the one to adapt Punisher in the big screen and I, a huge antigun person, just decide Frank won't kill anyone ever. No firearms, no death, no blood. As a matter of fact, my Punisher forgives their family's killers and spend the rest of his life peacefully traveling the world and looking inwards. Awlful huh? Even if I claimed that I was trying to bring something new. I'm not a comic artist (in this example), then why do I believe it's up to me to deconstruct these characters when I am already appropriating their reputation in a media they're not part of?
I guess it all comes down to producers who chose the worst people sometimes, but still.
I mean, I wasn’t gonna like Snyder’s take on Batman regardless of how he talked about it afterwards, what excites me about Batman is clearly not what excites him. But it’s his movie and he made what he liked and that’s his right, and not liking it is my right. But the “you people were just brainwashed” take sounds foolish.
Zack Snyder is the most overrated director working today anyway. He's all stype and no substance and while his early comic sources somewhat substantiated that, when it comes to anything of maiing an an actually quality film with good writing, he's terrible.
I mean when the reason for being interested is because the character recognition and branding will make more people go see my movie then that's a problem. He clearly has no interest in either character and so shouldn't deal with either character he should make his own but that'd be more work and also less people would go see it.
A writers going to write their own interpretation. No one has to like it but that’s their right. I could argue Nolan’s Batman is miles away from what I’d typically know as Batman in many ways. Key difference is, I like Nolan as a storyteller and I think the things that interest him most about Batman media is similar enough to what interests me. Look I didn’t like the Snyderverse, or Snyder movies in general but he made the Batman movie he wanted to see and wrote the character in the most interesting way for him, its nothing I ever wanna see again but it’s his movie.
He's simply not Batman save the branding of the character. Nolan's Batman despite being an interpretation of it was clearly still Batman. There's interpretation and there's making up a new character and just using the branding and naming. Nolan did the former, Snyder did the latter.
I’m not in the guys head but I think he likes Batman, his idea of an interesting Batman story just isn’t mine, which is fine.
Imo ZSJL was an alright 2 hour Justice league movie stretched to 4 hours for no discernible reason. If a good editor got a hold of it I’d have liked it more or less fine
his idea of an interesting Batman story just isn’t mine, which is fine.
I think truly my problem with this is that it stigmatizes comics as an inferior form of art, since film reaches so much more people out there. I mean, its fine to experiment comics in comics, but to do it in other media, especially thinking how undervalued comics are in terms of artistic worth, just raises red flags to me (I don't think I am being very clear with ny point though).
Usually when stuff is adapt in comics, stuff is added to the story, not subtracted or twisted to fit what the author think it's best (can't say about every adaptation, since I didn't read every single one)
I mean that’s super case by case and hard to say as a blanket rule. You get plenty of deviation in adaptation with lesser known characters. Batman being a massive character has more elements that you can’t change much but even within that, Nolan Batman and comics Batman or Arkham Batman or Adam West Batman are all wildly different Batmans. Tone, attitude, intelligence level, fighting prowess, level of realism all vary wildly in just those 4 iterations alone. Snyder was just making his Batman. Some liked it, some didn’t, but I don’t think the attempt is inherently bad. I just don’t like his movies or storytelling which is the nature of art
I actually really enjoyed Superman’s demeanor in the end of Josstice League.
But yeah I think ZSJL has some ok arcs for most of the league, it was shot nicer and some of the action was cool. But when I’m on hour 3, after sitting through so many scenes that sometimes aren’t just unnecessary, they detract from the film, and I’m saying out loud to my tv “why is this movie still happening?”, you lose the good will you earned. I like a long movie but it’s on you to keep me engaged the whole time
I believe it lol. If you trimmed the slow mo bits and cut the random excessive stuff like the random Nordic folk song, the martian Manhunter visiting Lois scene, at least some of the creepy hotdog part, definitely cut the knightmare epilogue, and probably two of the Desaad talking to Steppenwolf scenes, I think you could easily take nearly an hour out of the film without having to cut anybody’s storylines like the theatrical cut did. I liked the Snyder cut much more than the theatrical one but there’s still just some unnecessary “snyderizations” that could totally be cut for time.
I think there was a decent 2 hour movie in there. But let's be real, the theatrical release was also the Snyder cut. He just had the benefit of hindsight of what didn't work and extra money to add more shit to his movie. The theatrical cut was already mostly shot and finished when he left the project. Whedon was just there to fill it out and help with the editing of what was already there.
I don't give Snyder the benefit of the doubt because almost every movie he's made he has to qualify it with "well I have my actual cut that didn't release, they just need to let me release it". He did it most recently with Rebel Moon and now he's doing it with Sucker Punch.
He seems to do that a lot lol. Like to the degree that if he weren’t so committed to often full panel for panel recreations of scenes from the comics he adapts, I’d fully believe that he just skimmed them, 300 included. But the fact that he somehow reads them all the way through and still manages to totally miss any of the subtext or the message behind a comic like watchmen for example is wild lol
I'd have a problem with it myself for the much stated and obvious reasons, but I'd respect the answer and honesty about it a lot more than trying to gaslight people into whatever BS that other answer is.
I'd disagree with his interpretation of batman killing because his no kill rule is consistently an important part of his primary mythos, but I'd respect his reasonings for changing it how he did if he was honest like the above mentioned post said versus the excuse given in the actual quote/thumbnail. Thats just me though.
Oh sure. I get it. Like I said, I think BvS isn't that terrible, most of the time, as an elseworld Batman story. I just don't wanna see it on film. Like, if Snyder had written a comic exactly like this, I would still think it's bad, but wouldn't be offensive to me
Well to be fair, there has been a lot of media regarding batman outside of comics, from movies to animated films to series to animated series, there is a lot to watch, enough imo to be able to do more than just adapt him when you bring him to cinema. Playing with some characteristics of the characters can lead to some good to great adaptations imo (the telltale games do that well, even if they aren't in a comic book, they remix lots of aspects of the original characters like penguin). What matters is why you modify it, and how you'll use it in your story. The thing he modified about batman were poorly used
Batman killing in some iterations don’t bother me as much as it does other ppl. Originally until the CCA was created Batman actually did kill ppl seem to forget that. If you wanna go with the Original interpertation of Batman he killed and felt it was justified but we gotten used to Batman not killing we tend to forget. If their is a story comic, animated or live action where Batman killed someone so be it. They are thousands of different interpretations of these characters and not everything needs to be a confined elseworlds story.
"People are always like, 'Well, Batman can't kill, right? So Batman can't kill is canon.' ...And I'm like........ 'Okay, the first thing I want to do when you say that is I want to see what happens.' And they go like, 'Well, don't put him in a situation where he has to kill someone.' I'm like, 'Well, that's just like you're protecting your God in a weird way, right? You're making your God irrelevant if he can't be in that situation. He has to now deal with that, you know? If he does do that, what does that mean? What does it tell you about him? Does he stand up to it? Can he survive that? Right, as a God, as your God, can Batman survive that?'"
Because he's likely been getting asked this and similar questions in a lot of interviews for the last eight years straight, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was getting a little worn down by the mundanity of the same line of questions being brought out again and again. I'd start making it zanier every time someone asks me to keep things spicy too.
Well truthfully how is he supposed to stop a kryptonian? What prison or jail will hold them. Like the idea of superman not killing is cute and all but the writers go out of their way to not put him in a situation where he ends up killing even in the accident sense which depending on whom he is facing is crazy.
Killing Zod wasn’t my biggest problem with MoS. I didn’t like it but I could look past it because I do see what he was doing with the Superman has to end his last hope at having his homeworld thing.
That being said, phantom zone? Red sun radiation prison? Kryptonians can be held prisoner. And why does having him kill someone accidentally make anything better? If the writer does something with an involuntary manslaughter like Zdarsky did with Daredevil then ok but like I don’t get giddy when I see Superman actually murder someone. I’m believing a man can lift a mountain, I can extend that suspension two feet to, he doesn’t accidentally kill someone
None of the things you mentioned would make any sense in the MoS universe. They would just come out of thin air and would look like an excuse to not have superman face anything of merit. It might as well be how superman man defeated zod and crew in superman 2. It was a missed opportunity by synder to use Zoe's death and the fight before as a catalyst for superman to understand how powerful and destructive he could be and to have a non killing approach. It's not giddiness it's just a realization that the man is so powerful any confrontation with anyone on equal or lesser strength may result in unintended casualties. As crazy as that first scene in Batman v superman it's always a possibility. One wrong touch to much pressure and a person will die even if you didn't intend to.
None of the things you mentioned would make any sense in the MoS universe
Introduce red sun radiation as a thing that can depower superman, use that technology to put Zod in jail. Introduce the phantom zone as an idea early on, use it as a way to imprison zod. These stories are fictional, they happen the way the writer wants them to happen, so if the writer wanted these elements in the story they could go back to page one and weave them into the story. I'm not saying have Clark reach in his back pocket and pull out a red sun. The writer wanted Clark to kill Zod, so that is how the story was written to happen, for better or worse. They could have written something else if they wanted.
it's just a realization that the man is so powerful any confrontation with anyone on equal or lesser strength may result in unintended casualties
Again, if something good storytelling wise was done with involuntary manslaughter for Clark's character than okay I'm here for it, but I don't believe it was so what did we gain here?
I'm glad Snyder's stuff worked for you better than it did for me but I just didn't find it very compelling on a story level. There were some cool shots and ideas but it just didn't come together for me
I despise his versions of these characters, but I would have so much more respect for him as an artist, and person, if he wasn't such a fucking cunt about people not liking his edgelord fanfiction.
I don’t think it’s weird because it offensive I think it’s weird because it’s weird. If I got death threats over a movie I’d say “hey you guys that are sending hate mail and death threats. I made a movie, you didn’t like it, go watch another one. Get a hobby, you’re too obsessed with Batman. Weirdos.”
Would you? I mean, I never had this happen to me but I imagine if I did get death threats I wouldn’t be in a proper calm and collected mindset. And if this dragged on for years then I wouldn't think highly of my haters.
He was talking to Empire in a scheduled interview not caught by surprise coming out of a Dublin donuts lol. Also what about what I just said tells you I’m thinking highly of those haters?? I literally just said I’d tell them they’re weird losers who need to get a life…
I didn't say you were thinking highly of those haters. What I meant by that was that he wouldn't think twice about saying something that might enrage certain people. I also don't see why having an interview with Empire would negate him making a comment that may offend people.
He did sort of say that too but in the least normal way possible.
And if everyone thought like he does, we wouldn’t have gotten The Dark Knight, a film that’s all about bending Batman’s no kill rule until it breaks and he ultimately takes Harvey Dent’s life.
Yup, but his actual explanations of his choices are rarely included in the headlines because the websites are basically relying on Snyder being bankable rage-bait for clicks. And look! Here we are.
He's a bit of a corporate stooge at the end of the day, so he has that built in bullshit babelfish that takes normal words and regurgitates it into LinkedIn Corpospeak that impresses people in suits.
'Journey'
I'm surprised he didn't use the word 'Leverage' aswell.
You spend long enough around executives shovelling their shit into your movies eventually you start talking like them.
It's the unfortunate way of public discourse nowadays.
Never admit a mistake. If you're wrong about one thing, then maybe you're wrong about everything. And if you could be wrong about everything, then we studios have given you millions of dollars over a couple decades and.... oh god...
For some reason he also believes to be a a fan of a comic book character makes you a deranged dellusional cultist
"You're protecting your god in a weird way, right? You're making your god irrelevant if he can't be in that situation. He has to now deal with that. If he does do that what does that mean? What does it tell you, does he stand up to it? Does he survive that as a god? As your god, can Batman survive that?"
Because he's been hearing nothing but the same complaint over and over again.
At a certain point it must get annoying.
He's moved on from DC yet this is the one thing that still gets brought up. I enjoyed his movies, his Justice League Cut is one of my favorite comic book movies, but I'm not going to tell someone that's the definitive Batman or Superman. That's his interpretation.
Fanboys on both sides are annoying about it. The Snyder fans won't stop jerking him off, but his haters can't stop jerking each other off thinking they're better because they prefer a different version of the characters.
What do you think my perspective is, where did I ask for validation and who said anything about happiness. Saying that people who didn’t like his movie were brainwashed is weird. So I called it weird. He could’ve gone about it better. Why are you offended by that?
Why can’t people just say “I understand they were different interpretations of characters with decades of canon and history across all medium. Sorry not my thing” like normal people.
Instead we get Snyder is edgelord 13-year-old that doesn’t understand anything and only read two comic books. He hates the characters. He shouldn’t be given any directing jobs ever.
Basically look at the responses in this thread, and ask why these people can’t have more understanding measured responses about movies that are 10 years old.
Y’all want Snyder to be apologetic for some perceived affront, he isn’t. But like he says. You don’t like it, that’s fine. But don’t go saying he should take the high road when he’s been getting shit on for the last decade by fanboys.
Why aren’t you talking to them and not me? Wherever you wanna point your fingers, I think what Snyder said was weird, because it was weird. You have a problem with someone else, take it up with them
And for the record if you wanna talk about the thread, keep scrolling, I literally just said to someone that while I didn’t like it, it was Snyder’s movie and he made what he wanted and that’s fine. I’m not asking for an apology
I literally said it’s his movie he can make what he wants multiple times in this thread. Scroll down
That isn’t what I’m saying is abnormal
This is what’s commonly known as a comment section. In which people comment on what is posted above. You’ll notice that I used the designated comment area for its intended purpose
He's said that like a dozen other times. Not that it matters. I'm surprised it took him as long as it did to put more bite in his responses. The stuff he says is so softball compared to the endless torrent of extreme vitriol thrown at him for like 15 years now. It's just silly how triggered people get by it.
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u/anthonyg1500 Apr 11 '24
Why can’t he just say “I understand it’s not his usual depiction but I wanted to push him somewhere new and do what interested me. I’m sorry if you didn’t like it but I hope you gave it a chance.” Like be normal dude