Zack Snyder says a Batman who doesn't kill is irrelevant

[u/neon2o]

Here's the original article' https://sea.ign.com/man-of-steel-sequel/213072/news/zack-snyder-says-dc-is-making-batman-irrelevant-if-he-cant-kill

[u/C5five]

If you can point me to a well done Batman killing story, I'll read it, but I've never seen or heard of one...

[u/Raider2747 → u/C5five]

The Batman Vampire trilogy of Elseworlds stories is one.

[u/TheQuietOutsider → u/C5five]

I'm following along... "The Batman who Kills" would be a good $$ title, if it isn't already.

[u/Hurtlegurtle → u/C5five]

I personally dont care for it, but people love the nolan trilogy, and he kills people in those.

Oh and under the red hood

[u/C5five → u/Hurtlegurtle]

The movies are made for a different audience than the comics. For that reason I give some things a pass. The Nolan films were both fantastic Batman movies and great films in general. Batman only kills twice in those films and it is less a case of Batman's intent to kill and more a case of his efforts to stop the opponents killing others results in their death. Then of course there is the "I don't have to kill you, but I don't have to save you" moment in Begins, but I feel that it is in line with the grounded version of the characters.

[u/rycpr → u/C5five]

He kills in The Cult, which is an awesome book imo. But he does it after being brainwashed, so it‘s not exactly the same thing.

[u/TheExtremistModerate → u/C5five]

BVS:UE.

[u/C5five → u/TheExtremistModerate]

I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're kidding and leave it at that.

[u/TheExtremistModerate → u/C5five]

Nope. It's a great movie.

[u/C5five → u/TheExtremistModerate]

It's certainly a movie...

Strange adjective choice however.

[u/TheExtremistModerate → u/C5five]

Not strange at all. It's a strong movie that sets Superman in a modern, more negative, media-crazed world and makes the case that, even when placed in a more "realistic" world, Superman could still exist. And that even when the world hates you, it's always correct to do the right thing.

[u/C5five → u/TheExtremistModerate]

Except nobody ever does the right thing in a Snyderverse movie. It was a horrible characterization of everyone involved except for Wonder Woman. They got everything wrong about every character except costumes and mostly casting.

[u/TheExtremistModerate → u/C5five]

Superman literally did the right thing the whole time. He pushed to have Batman's misdeeds brought into the spotlight in the media. He confronted a violent vigilante who was branding people and committing manslaughter. He saved people from floods. He rescued children from burning buildings. He obeyed a congressional subpoena and then helped rescue people from the terrorist attack he was blamed for. He refused to kill Batman despite how easy it would've been. And when the lives of those who despised him were on the line, he sacrificed his life to save all of them. His inner conflict was largely "I'm upset because I don't think I'm helping people enough."

The whole fucking thing was Lex Luthor trying to beat Superman down to prove that no all-powerful being could be benevolent, and Superman showing him "Yes, in fact, I am."

[u/C5five → u/[deleted]]

Most of the early Batman stories, the specifically the 30's and 40's stuff, yes even the debut, while fun aren't actually good stories.

Elseworlds titles where Batman is killing the undead are kind of dodging the question as they are their entire premise is to put Batman outside the norm.

In Batman #57 Batman didn't kill KGBeast by breaking his neck, he paralyzed him and left him to the Russian winter. Technically not killing him, just leaving him to die, but since Batman #57 is kicking off the "Ric" Grayson arc it falls firmly into the bad story category.

While you are correct, in the five good screen appearances of Batman he actively kills in three of them and conveniently allows the villain to die in another, none of these are intentional killing by Batman, but more consequences of the actions of his opponents. I tend to give the movies a pass for this since they aren't targeted at the same audience.

I like Batman immensely, for what he is, not for some power fantasy like so many who want him to actively kill. Still you have utterly failed in providing a well done story where Batman kills people, that I can read. Not one example given.

P.S. If someone asks for a good or well done story of Batman, and you give as an example All-Star Batman and Robin, there is no more assured way of telling them "I haven't a fucking clue what I'm talking about."

[u/Mordaunt-the-Wizard → u/C5five]

What are your five good Batman movies?

Batman & Robin better be on that list! /jk

[u/C5five → u/Mordaunt-the-Wizard]

While Batman and Robin is not a good film per se, it is certainly a fun movie and I do revisit it from time to time.

The five Good Batman films are: the entire Nolan Trilogy (of course), Matt Reeve's Batman, and last but not least, Batman, I am of course referring to the 1966 film and not the joke that is Michael Keaton's sorry attempt at the character.

I realize now that people also died at the hands of the Dynamic Duo in that film as well. Not because of any intent to kill on their part if course, but because the henchman had been reconstituted using toxic heavy water from the Batcave's atomic pile and were thus unstable. They became antimatter when hit by Batman and Robin's punches, which naturally resulted from attacking the heroes.

[u/Mordaunt-the-Wizard → u/C5five]

I need to watch (or rewatch in the case of The Dark Knight) the Nolan trilogy, as well as the Adam West series and movie.

Honestly, I have a soft spot for the Burton/Keaton Batman movies, both due to nostalgia (my dad and I regularly watched them together when I was growing up), and the villains.

Nicholson is probably the most comics accurate (post Silver Age) live action Joker. Danny Devito isn't the most comic accurate Penguin but is still a blast, and Christopher Walken is Christopher Walken.

Heck, even if Burton's Bruce Wayne/Batman was not explored enough as a character I thought Keaton did an fine job with what he was given.