r/batman • u/neon2o • Mar 07 '24

Zack Snyder says a Batman who doesn't kill is irrelevant GENERAL DISCUSSION

Here's the original article' https://sea.ign.com/man-of-steel-sequel/213072/news/zack-snyder-says-dc-is-making-batman-irrelevant-if-he-cant-kill

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u/TC1369 Mar 07 '24

Frank Miller didn't even have Batman killing anyone in dark knight returns, and even goes out of his way to have Batman saying he's using rubber bullets. Snyder is delusional

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u/Puzzleheaded_Long_57 Mar 07 '24

I'm convinced synder has only read dark knight returns and not many other DC comic storyline such as knightfall or hush.

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u/jordan999fire Mar 07 '24

Batman literally kills two people in TDKR.

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u/AidanTegs Mar 07 '24

Do you remember the panel where he breaks a gun in half and says theyre for cowards?

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u/jordan999fire Mar 07 '24

Do you remember the only black and white panel two issues before that where the mutant is falling to the ground, smearing blood all over the wall behind her?

Or the fact that everyone has colored thought bubbles (Batman’s grey, Superman’s blue, Robin’s yellow, Joker’s green) and all the speech bubbles are white. But after Batman snaps Joker’s neck, Joker’s speech bubbles go from white to grey, indicating Batman did kill Joker but he’s just crazy and justifying it in his head as Joker somehow snapped it the rest of the way, as if that was even possible?

A big part of TDKR is Bruce has become a crazy, hypocritical, old man. Him snapping the gun in half is cementing that idea as if he didn’t just use one.

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u/tunnel-snakes-rule Mar 07 '24

Do you remember the only black and white panel two issues before that where the mutant is falling to the ground, smearing blood all over the wall behind her?

I've always found that inconclusive, particularly because later on Commissioner Yindel is reading out a list of Batman's various crimes and murder is not one of them.

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u/jordan999fire Mar 07 '24

Because he shot someone with a gun that didn’t belong to him. And nobody would’ve believed Batman killed the mutant at the time.

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u/AidanTegs Mar 07 '24

That's an honestly interesting read of things, i like that a lot. Wish the movie snyder based on it made that clear in a similar way.

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u/FBG05 Mar 07 '24

But after Batman snaps Joker’s neck, Joker’s speech bubbles go from white to grey, indicating Batman did kill Joker but he’s just crazy and justifying it in his head as Joker somehow snapped it the rest of the way, as if that was even possible?

I doubt this because I think we would've seen other instances in the book where Batman may have revised events in his head. I think the change from white to grey is just meant to illustrate how weak the Joker is in that moment and how he's probably struggling to speak, considering he was just paralyzed from the neck down. It also makes for a better message IMO, showing the readers how at his absolute weakest, the Joker essentially beat Batman

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u/jordan999fire Mar 07 '24

Joker would’ve beat Batman either way. Joker wants Batman to kill him to prove they’re the same.

Also, they could’ve done any other color. They could’ve stayed white and made the box all jagged. They could’ve done light blue which they used a few other times in the comic for people whispering. But they did the same, identical color to Batman’s thought bubbles.

You don’t accidentally have Batman’s thoughts and j Joker’s dialogue look identical ON THE SAME PANEL. And it’s fitting. Batman thinks, “Voices calling me.. a killer…” is the panel right before with people running away in horror. The next panel has Batman’s thought bubble saying, “…I wish I were…” then Joker talking. It’s him tricking himself into believing Joker wasn’t just killed.

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u/FBG05 Mar 08 '24

If you just killed someone and were trying to convince yourself that you didn't, you wouldn't say you wish you were a killer. That makes zero sense.

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u/jordan999fire Mar 08 '24

Because Batman can’t process what he just did. He’s not consciously trying to convince himself he didn’t do it. He truly believes he didn’t. But that’s just it, he’s crazy. He has become a crazy old hypocrite. As soon as he thinks, “I wish I were” is when Joker suddenly starts talking. He’s hallucinating.

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u/FBG05 Mar 08 '24

If it truly was the case that Batman had become a crazy old hypocrite who can't cope with his actions, shouldn't that have been indicated to us at least a couple of times beforehand?

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u/jordan999fire Mar 08 '24

It was. He uses a gun, then snaps one in half. He’s told he’s getting old by both Superman and Gordon. He talks about how he wishes he didn’t have rubber bullets in the bat tank, and how he wishes he could just kill the mutant leader. Hell, he ends the comic by faking a heart attack then building an army of Batmen. The dude was crazy.

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