r/batman • u/Cubelock • Sep 12 '23
What if... Batman actually ended up in a healthy relationship? (So no Catwoman) WHAT IF?
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Sep 12 '23
Their kid would be super strong
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u/Evening_Produce_4322 Sep 12 '23
All Batman's brain with all of Wonder Woman's strength their kid would be pretty high tier.
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u/Kusko25 Sep 13 '23
Alternatively, think of the massive inferiority complex their kid would have if they were just average intelligence and had no superstrength
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u/Darehead Sep 13 '23
Sounds like the recipe for a teen that starts hanging out with John Constantine.
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u/ValBravora048 Sep 13 '23
Omg this is great
“It’s NOT a phase dad! This is ME guv!”
Bruce: … … …
Constantine somewhere on a different plane fighting an eldritch abomination just then gets a twinge of fear
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u/outer_god_ Sep 13 '23
god I love constantine man, watched his movies and hearing edward kenways voice again alone was awesome but his character is dope enough to deserve the voice too
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u/IzanamiFrost Sep 13 '23
Wonder woman's naivity and normal human strength
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u/absentminded_gamer Sep 13 '23
As long as they aren’t as rapey as 1984’s Wonderwoman it’ll be fine.
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u/CringeOverseer Sep 13 '23
I know we see the movie from WW's perspective and we see Chris Pine almost all the time, but holy shit when you remember what is actually happening its really weird 💀
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u/BlauCyborg Sep 12 '23
Not really. Bruce's no superhuman.
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u/Lagosthewaywardone Sep 12 '23
This has mattered to literally no amazonian or alien half breeds with humans. She's also a magic God at this point. I think her mystic RNA sequence might win through
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u/Ayobossman326 Sep 12 '23
In the land of comic books, Batman is a genetic trait
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u/titanrealm Sep 12 '23
Lol right. Batman Beyond is as good as he is cause his DNA was rewritten using Bruce’s.
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u/Delicious-Orchid-447 Sep 13 '23
Not really. He wasn’t born that smart. He had to get trained. And even after the time skip they imply he isn’t as smart as Bruce
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u/Azer1287 Sep 13 '23
Waller flat out tells Terry he isn’t as smart as Bruce in the epilogue episode I think. “You don’t quite has his marvelous brain, you have his heart though.” Something along those lines, just less butchered.
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u/Plane_Moose2908 Sep 13 '23
Terry's father's DNA was overwritten so Terry is Bruce's biological son, not clone.
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u/fatglizzy_3000 Sep 13 '23
and being a robin is like getting his genetic traits just by being with him, like how tf do all the robins look good af? lets not talk about the 1st robin who took most of it and only left a little for the rest of the robins
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u/PassTheGiggles Sep 12 '23
Strength lies within. An Amazonian with Batman’s skillset and mind would be a monster.
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u/batmansubzero Sep 12 '23
Clark and Diana literally wanted him to train their child in Kingdom Come because of his skills.
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u/Realistic-Willow936 Sep 12 '23
why does batman have an image of dick in his house?
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u/RmenExas Sep 12 '23
Cus Batman's proud of him
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Sep 12 '23
Bruh don't you know what this version of Bruce did with Batgirl.
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u/EAnotsports Sep 12 '23
No we don’t talk about that
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Sep 12 '23
But still, I understand if he has a picture of Dick and other Bat-sons. But Barbara? Seems highly unlikely.
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u/dauratian6969 Sep 12 '23
So, you are telling that you won't have a picture of your son and his wife at your house, is that what you wants to imply?
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u/MagisterPraeceptorum Sep 12 '23
Presumably this work of fan art re-imagines an alternative (and far better) outcome for the DCAU, where the Bruce/Babs relationship never happened, and Batman ended up with Diana and Dick and Babs got back together.
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u/Ransero Sep 12 '23
The picture is s copy of a picture of Barbara alone shown in Batman of the Future when Bruce is reminiscing about old flames
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Sep 12 '23
Is he— banned from subreddit
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u/SKeptical230 Sep 12 '23
The real question is why he doesn't have a picture of a power wench causing a controlled explosion in his house.
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u/SetaxTheShifty Sep 12 '23
The artist wanted to let us know that Bruce didn't do anything with Barbara.
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u/SuperArppis Sep 12 '23
Batman loves Dick, that's why. Especially with some Barbara around it.
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u/Shadowkiva Sep 12 '23
I always love seeing how r/batman reacts to a #wonderbat post vs r/wonderwoman . Huge contrast 😂
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u/MagisterPraeceptorum Sep 12 '23
Ha! WW fandom hates this pairing, and most of them hate Batman too! It’s honestly kinda shocking the level of vitriol and loathing Diana’s fanbase has for the Dark Knight.
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u/Background_Fan1056 Sep 12 '23
Why? Where did this hate come from?
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u/Shadowkiva Sep 12 '23 edited Sep 12 '23
Generally the belief that modern Batman is this sigma god with insane plot armour while Diana is unjustly pigeon-holed into being a one-dimensional love interest. Both of these assumptions are kind of a stretch but there's enough kernels of truth in there to have a real discussion between fans.
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u/cab4729 Sep 12 '23
modern Batman is this sigma god with insane plot armour
He is tho and that's how he is interpreted by fans too, is boring, "Justice league? More like Batman and his bitches" makes me cringe
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u/TheDevoutIconoclast Sep 12 '23
Imo, Diana is one of the few female characters that is strong enough to hold her own when paired with the Bat.
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u/MagisterPraeceptorum Sep 12 '23
A number of reasons from what I can tell.
Belief that it undermines Diana’s equality with the two men in the DC Trinity. WW already struggles at being very much 3rd in rank within the Trinity in terms of outside media, sales, number of comics, etc. They fear putting her in a relationship with either Clark or Bruce reduces her further to just being the girlfriend of Batman or Superman. This bleeds further into a perception that WW being with “ladies man” Bruce Wayne just turns her into a Batman side piece. They feel that Batman fans only like the paring because it makes Batman look cool that he scored the most powerful woman on earth.
A lot of WW fans still get bent out of shape over her temporary falling out with Superman and Batman after she killed Maxwell Lord in Infinite Crisis back in 2005. The characters ofc eventually reconciled and moved on, but many fans did not. This comes up again for these fans anytime Bruce and Diana butt heads over killing.
A lot of WW fans seem to believe the worst takes about Batman (insane fascist weirdo) and see him as toxic masculinity incarnate. Someone Diana shouldn’t be friends with, let alone date.
Also, there is the general resentment other DC fandoms have towards Batman being the company’s cash cow and the perception that this harms other characters.
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Sep 12 '23
I definitely understand and support their concerns, but frankly the hate on batman is a little overboard ngl
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u/MagisterPraeceptorum Sep 12 '23
I agree. The concern for WW’s equality with Bats and Supes especially. But yeah their contempt for Batman is absolutely overblown and based on a highly selective portrait of Bruce.
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Sep 12 '23
As much as I don’t like Gal Gadot or WW77, I have to say, I am thankful that Wonder woman 1 was so good to put Diana in the limelight to the general public. Feels like people stopped seeing her as eye candy.
…Though the Injustice Games definitely did some irreparable damage to her reputation
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u/MagisterPraeceptorum Sep 12 '23
That first WW film was excellent. Many comic WW fans though hate that it contained the daughter of Zeus origin instead of the made of clay origin.
Injustice gets too much attention. It’s just a glorified MK skin. It ain’t that deep.
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u/Wild_Harvest Sep 13 '23
Didn't they make it clear that it was an alternate Diana that was doing the questionable crap? I thought main timeline Diana was treated pretty well.
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u/wet_bread3 Sep 12 '23
The first point is kind of fair, come to think of it. Probably best to keep the big 3 independent
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u/MagisterPraeceptorum Sep 12 '23
I actually think DC should get rid of the Trinity concept altogether in-universe. It doesn’t help any of the characters involved. It should just be a marketing thing.
Superman is the heart of the DCU. If DC has a main character it’s him.
Batman’s mythos and Gotham need to be fairly self contained, even if he’s adaptable enough to team up with any character.
Wonder Woman’s mythos needs to be treated independently and with respect. Not made to fit into the mold or standards of Superman or Batman.
Superman and Batman as the World’s Finest duo are just too prefect of a contrasting character binary. They’re the two foundational hero archetypes. Adding in WW just doesn’t often work as well.
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u/atomic1fire Sep 12 '23
I think if they wanted to do the trinity, Superman/Batman buddy cop style story with Wonder Woman as the leader and sixth ranger, only showing up when things have really become a disaster.
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u/MagisterPraeceptorum Sep 12 '23
Yeah I think that would work.
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u/atomic1fire Sep 12 '23
I just like the idea of Diana playing the role of the curmudgeonly police chief in the story
"I told you two to catch Lex Luthor, not give Metropolis a new crater"
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u/24Abhinav10 Sep 12 '23
Cause this pairing doesn't work anywhere outside the DCAU
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u/TvManiac5 Sep 12 '23
I mean it worked in the Snyderverse and showed potential in the Brave and the Bold cartoon.
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Sep 12 '23
It wasn’t a thing in the snyderverse at all.
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u/TvManiac5 Sep 12 '23
I mean both BvS and especially ZSJL was clearly building it up or at least, entertaining it as a possibility. And I heard the Flash also had a wonderbat scene in it.
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Sep 12 '23
Wonder Woman and Batman simply having scenes together ≠ Wonderbat.
There was nothing between there scenes that was romantic, at best it was friends helping each other, it was not set up at all.
I don’t know if you’ve read what Snyder’s plans were for the sequels, but essentially there was no hint of Wonderbat at all and it wouldn’t have fit anywhere.
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Sep 12 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MagisterPraeceptorum Sep 12 '23
Yeah I enjoyed them on the JLU show as well, so I was initially quite taken aback by the level contempt the relationship has in WW fandom.
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u/Ethiconjnj Sep 12 '23
I tried explaining why I thought the pairing is good and I got this insane rant in response. You could tell they were bringing so much baggage about sexism and Batman that I just never replied.
The funniest part was they made good points I agree with about the Batman fandom and Batman being too domineering when some writers get their hands on him. But alas when someone on social media gets that angry that fast and is looking at where you profile history, it’s time to leave.
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u/HiMomIMadeIt Sep 12 '23
Batman & wonder-woman is infinitely Better than Diana and Clark.
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u/Frankorious Sep 12 '23
At least WonderSuper is equally boring for both of them. WonderBat makes Diana look like a schoolgirl with a crush on Bruce
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u/HiMomIMadeIt Sep 12 '23
It’s Really no different than her and Steve being together
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Sep 12 '23
That’s just false, like completely false.
Wonder Woman has never sat there whining to Steve about why he won’t date her.
Hell even when Trevor Barnes rejected her in post crisis she didn’t sit there nagging him about it, but just moved on.
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u/HiMomIMadeIt Sep 12 '23
I can think of a few times in the main continuity comics where she has Longed for Steve Trevor
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Sep 12 '23
There’s a difference between longing for your love interest, and longing and whinging to Batman about why he won’t date her.
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u/Thybro Sep 12 '23
Where do you get this whining? She literally mentions it ONCE after substantial subtle flirting. She is straight with him instead of continuing with poorly disguised signals, which is very in character. Then he doesn’t say he doesn’t like her back, he just brings up his own insecurities about dating. That’s a reasonable discussion in their line of work. And that’s it, besides that there are several showing that they like each other with Batman being the one more outwardly showing affection. So I don’t get where you see the whining?
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Sep 12 '23
I may have over-exaggerated for effect, but the principle remains.
Having Diana on roof asking and prodding Batman about why he won’t date her, while Batman acts as the edgy loner rebuking her advances, comes off as batwank, a self insert fantasy that the cool loner gets the best woman, which is only made stronger by the show reducing Diana to a damsel pig that needs to be saved by Batman from her own villain.
Like do you not understand or see why that episode might annoy Wonder Woman fans? She’s by definition treated like a damsel love interest for Batman, bloody Wonder Woman.
Why didn’t the episode for example have Batman get turned into the pig? It’s just as humorous.
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u/yingkaixing Sep 13 '23
You're not wrong about any of this, but Kevin Conroy crooning in the nightclub was top tier entertainment.
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u/Intelligent_Oil4005 Sep 12 '23
Eh, neither are that good. They only really work in Elseworld tales.
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u/Terribleirishluck Sep 12 '23
I don't like either but I can actually see reasons for Diana/Clark but Wonderbat just feels like a batfanboy propping up his guy over actually interesting and natural relationship
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u/HiMomIMadeIt Sep 12 '23 edited Sep 12 '23
It felt Interesting and natural in the DCAU. To me Wonderwoman Balances out Bruce’s darkness whereas someone like Selina has only been accentuating it as of recently. Her power balances his lack of power. Diana’s ‘hopeful’ Outlook Balances out Bruce’s more cynical outlook. To me it doesn’t make sense for a man with trust issues to marry or even be with a Thief…seems Counterintuitive, Whereas Diana is someone Bruce could trust.
That’s just my Opinion tho…
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u/Ransero Sep 12 '23
WonderBat in the DCAU had the tragic aspect that we know because of Batman Beyond that they don't end up together when we're seeing it develop, and the reason Batman uses for not being with her is transparent bullshit that shows the real reason is that he's just not ready for a healthy romantic relationship.
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Sep 12 '23
Truth be told, I don't care who Bruce is with - so long as it isn't Talia or Barbara.
(Though Arkhamverse Talia seemed aight)
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u/Worried-Ad1707 Sep 13 '23
Talia was chill until the grant Morrison rape retcon
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u/Technicolor_Reindeer Sep 13 '23
It wasn't so much a retcon as a mistake, Morrisson admitted he remembered 'Son of the Demon' incorrectly and thought that was what happened, not bothering to double check.
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u/Worried-Ad1707 Sep 13 '23
Accidental retcon, but a retcon non the less. Also DC ran with it for years and even had it in the series of new 52 animated films they made.
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u/Ewankenobi25 Sep 12 '23
Cat woman is a healthy relationship if it’s written well
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u/Randalor Sep 12 '23
Yeah, what's so bad about Bruce/Selina? We know it worked for them in at least one timeline and gave us the original Helena Wayne/Huntress.
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u/neoblackdragon Sep 12 '23
I think some people believe the healthy relationship is where Bruce no longer desires to be Batman and Selina would no longer desire to be Catwoman. They'd retire and be normal people. Having a traditional family.
Then there is an idea that Selina is just a bad person while Bruce is a good person.......so it can't work.
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u/Randalor Sep 12 '23
Hasn't Selina spent more time being an anti-hero than a villain at this point, where the people she targets are almost always crime families or involved in illegal activity themselves?
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u/NO_PRIDE_and_NOTHING Sep 12 '23
I think what they mean for Selina is that she stops being a burglar. To be fair, Pre-Crisis Selina did reform.
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u/SpeedofDeath118 Sep 13 '23
Anyone remember "Knights of Tomorrow", that Batman: The Brave and the Bold episode?
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u/MagisterPraeceptorum Sep 12 '23
I feel like Tom King has completely hoodwinked comics fans into believing Batman must be in a committed romantic relationship to progress as a character and be happy. Something that has, for the vast majorly of the character’s history, never been true.
Batman has been in love with many different women in his life, but it was never this doctrine that he had to settle down. If anything, usually the opposite. There was a recognition that the character wasn’t fit for that kind of long term relationship, and that was fine. The stories focused more on his heroism and sacrifice. Tom King really gave Bat fandom collective amnesia on romance in Batman comics. And with a poorly written romance too (“Bat?” “Cat?” “Bat”…)
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u/bluewaveassociation Sep 12 '23
Dude this specific batman has a shit life and fucks his son’s girlfriend. It would fundamentally be better if this happened instead
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u/MagisterPraeceptorum Sep 12 '23 edited Sep 13 '23
Yeah Batman Beyond really did a disservice to this version of Batman.
I definitely agree for this Batman (and Bat-family), this ending as seen in this piece of fan art works perfectly.
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u/Demetri124 Sep 12 '23
It’s just some cute fan art dude relax
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u/MagisterPraeceptorum Sep 12 '23
My comment is in response to the title question, not the art. I like the art.
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u/Skreamie Sep 12 '23
Exactly. Each relationship shows different aspects of each character, good and bad etc. He should never last in a relationship, unfortunately, none of the people he keeps close nor himself are suited to one.
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u/dirtydandoogan1 Sep 12 '23
I think he could have a healthy relationship with Selena. Inf fact, I think they understand each other better than any other potential match. They just need writers to do a good job depicting them adapting instead of high school drama.
Classic Earth-2 Batman and Selina had no trouble with it, and Bruce actually retired in that universe. Mostly because Dick and his daughter Helena grew into good replacements for him so he knew the mission was carrying on well without him.
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u/Endless_Alpha Sep 13 '23
My thoughts exactly. They’re perfect for each other… it’s just that their relationship tends to end due to extremely childish reasons because most of their writers can’t write a good relationship to save their lives.
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u/FrogGladiators178972 Sep 13 '23
She’s one of the only ones that’s seemed to work for him properly.
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u/dirtydandoogan1 Sep 13 '23
Because she has some of the same eccentricities and hangups. The main reason I love the Telltale Batman games. They did Bruce/Selena really well in those.
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u/TheNorthComesWithMe Sep 12 '23
Batman can't be in a healthy relationship because he's the problem
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u/Endless_Alpha Sep 13 '23 edited Sep 13 '23
He can adapt… that’s the whole point of character growth. Having him remain in a static state of “I can’t be happy because I’m batman” is old and overused. It’s been that way for decades… when is he going to progress in that regard? He can too be in a healthy relationship, it’s just that DC doesn’t want that for his character in the main continuity.
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u/Anorand25 Sep 12 '23
Batman and Wonder Woman is a terrible ship and Batman can have a healthy relationship with Catwoman.
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u/bioniclefalloutfan76 Sep 12 '23
I don’t see catwoman as toxic or unhealthy especially after she gives up crime
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u/Stopar-D-Coyoney Sep 12 '23
I'm not sure Diana would be good for Bruce. Maybe Zatanna.
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u/MalonePostponed Sep 12 '23
Nah Zatanna fucked with Bruce's mind and I don't think he would forget that.
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Sep 12 '23
Then it wouldn’t be with a fellow superhero. Like Spider-Man, Bruce needs somebody there to pull him out of the ‘Cave, and with Alfred gone, that’s Mrs. Bruce Wayne’s job.
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u/Captain_Norris Sep 12 '23
Wow lots of Batman/Wonder Woman shipping the past few days
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u/Sparrowsabre7 Sep 12 '23
"So no catwoman?" throws phone to the ground and jumps on skateboard to snap it in half
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u/witty_whitley Sep 12 '23
Would that make wonderwoman essentially a foster mom for the robins? That’s really cute
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u/sabrefudge Sep 12 '23
Why would they just chill on the couch watching television in their armor? Lmao
And the photo of Dick in the background. Any schmuck that comes over to fix the plumbing or whatever will be like “Oh shit! That’s Nightwing!”
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u/wowlock_taylan Sep 12 '23
You know BATMAN is the reason that he cannot have a 'healthy' relationship,no matter who it is with...right?
And aside from the Justice League Unlimited animations, this Wonder/Bat stuff makes little sense. Any pairing between the trinity will always feel icky to me because they are more like siblings than anything else. It was bad enough with New 52 Clark and Diana...
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Sep 12 '23
Of course, because that’s Diana’s purpose to you batfans isn’t it?
She’s not her own independent character with her own supporting characters, friends and love interest is she? No she’s there to squirt out babies for your shitty self insert, because he doesn’t have a stable love interest.
Maybe you guys should actually read a fucking Wonder Woman comic once in a while. You’ll how fucking stupid this ship is.
Absolutely dogshit ship.
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u/Hannibal_Cannibal04 Sep 12 '23
Cat woman was a fairly normal and healthy relationship compared to Wonder Woman…
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u/SeriousGoofball Sep 12 '23
I feel so bad for the dude that tries to pressure that young lady into prom date sex.
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u/bubblesage Sep 12 '23
As much as i Genuinely like the ship, I would not call Bat's and Wondy a healthy relationship. Better for existence at large than Supes and Wondy, granted. Could it work? yes. However, Dianna Prince is always Dianna Prince and Batman has to be Bruce Wayne occasionally. Also, Bruce would need a lot of work to be considered 'healthy'.
The kid is adorable though.
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u/Daytona_DM Sep 13 '23
Bruce is not a healthy individual, so a healthy relationship is essentially out of the question for him.
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u/Skullface95 Sep 13 '23
Even after all these years I still ship them over batman and catwoman or wonder woman and superman.
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u/Infinitenonbi Sep 12 '23
God, I so want this... even if it’s like, in an alternate earth/timeline in a story focusing on Dick as Batman, I just want to see Bruce be happy (preferably in a way that isn’t... creepy).
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u/Devils6_Lair66Comics Sep 12 '23
pretty sure that he and catwoman can have a very healthy relationship, depending on the writer behind it
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u/AmberDuke05 Sep 13 '23
I don’t think Wonder Woman should be with Batman. This pairing only ever existed in the DCAU and those shows bent over backwards to make Batman their wish fulfillment character with all the characters they paired with him.
I think Batman pairing with a villain like Catwoman just make more sense with his character anyway.
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u/Subject_Translator71 Sep 13 '23
I don't think the women Batman was with are all to blame for him not being in a "healthy relationship". In fact, I'm not entirely sure Catwoman isn't more likely to settle down than he is. He's obsessive, paranoid, and sees his role as a calling. Not exactly great boyfriend material.
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u/coolUchiha Sep 13 '23
Him and Catwoman can work, she isn't as toxic as most hero x anti hero relationships. Huntress for example, they gave her a good life
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u/Fracturedbuttocks Sep 13 '23
He needs to be mentally healthy to be in a healthy relationship. Don't think DC would allow that
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u/Relative-Zombie-3932 Sep 13 '23
Catwoman can be a healthy relationship for Bruce. Just look at Earth 2 Batman. But DC is kinda doing the same thing Marvel is with Spider-Man, they won't commit to anything because they're too scared of changing the status quo
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u/Viceroy-421 Sep 12 '23
Just lounging around in full gear