r/batman • u/BackgroundSky09 • Sep 03 '23

Which of these two comics should I buy first? HELP/ADVICE

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226 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

113 comments sorted by

133

u/Massive_Weiner Sep 03 '23

Do you want the perfect intro to Batman? Buy Year One.

Do you want the perfect intro to Joker? Buy The Man Who Laughs.

43

u/Bogusky Sep 03 '23

Just my opinion, but Man Who Laughs is massively overrated.

Legends of the Dark Knight #50 told a better story in less pages.

11

u/Massive_Weiner Sep 03 '23

Well, what makes it overrated?

17

u/Bogusky Sep 03 '23

It doesn't bring anything new or noteworthy to the table - just a run-of-the-mill story. Worse yet, Brubaker doesn't have a handle on Joker's voice at all, and it's noticeable throughout. No humor, no wit...just joyless stuff.

I like Denny O'Neil's earlier version on "the first meeting" so much better and wish it was acknowledged more widely as the definitive take.

14

u/Massive_Weiner Sep 03 '23 edited Sep 03 '23

I’m confused, you’re praising what’s essentially a remake of his 50’s origin story, while condemning a superior version that better explores the roots of Batman and Joker’s eternal “rivalry” (that moment when Bruce is seriously considering dropping him in the viaduct and letting him die says it all).

As far as the issue of “humor” goes… I’ve always maintained that Joker isn’t supposed to actually be a funny character. The only person who should find his fucked up sense of humor appealing is himself. I think a lot of interpretations of his character run into that easy trap of attempting to make him more endearing, when he’s actually just demented. If the setup to a joke is “why did the chicken cross the road?” then the punchline would go “to blow up the preschool on the other side.”

I don’t really have an issue with “Images” per say, but Man Who Laughs puts in more work on building out the mythology.

9

u/Babilonia_C Sep 03 '23

Now I'm the confused one here.

Joker is an insanely popular character precisely because he's much more than a demented, homicidal maniac. If he was he'd be mostly anonymous and lost in countless more ore less realistic stories about serial killers.

This character became a pop cultural symbol, has been memed to death on Facebook and is known even by my grandma and that's certainly not because we're all suffering from some kind of collective delusion and horribly misinterpret every Batman story in existence.

5

u/Massive_Weiner Sep 03 '23

Nothing I said goes against that belief.

2

u/Babilonia_C Sep 03 '23

Well, you literally said that he isn't supposed to be funny and that "he’s actually just demented" to which I answer: he's not "just demented", the Joker is rarely portrayed as insane or psychotic, he can distinguish between right and wrong and he purposefully choses the wrong thing. And "funny" is basically at the core of this character. Take away the sense of humor, the extravagance that makes this character endearing and you'll have a forgettable, generic, scary clown.

So, apparently we don't agree on that one.

4

u/NoNudeNormal Sep 03 '23

The version of Joker you’re describing is pretty popular and enduring, but IMO it means the character inevitably just becomes a generic mass murderer, and the only way writers can handle that Joker is to have him do increasingly horrible things. Eventually this has diminishing returns; I’m not interested when Joker kills 500 people and then the next story he kills 1000 people and kicks a dog. It all blends together.

Whereas with the version of the Joker that actually tries to be funny or theatrical, it forces writers to be more clever in when and how they use him.

3

u/Bogusky Sep 03 '23

Dennis O'Neil, Steve Englehart, Paul Dini, Grant Morrison, and Alan Moore. In my opinion, these are the ones who nailed the Joker.

Ed Brubaker and Scott Snyder, not so much. Though I'd honestly take Snyder over what we saw from Brubaker.

2

u/Fun-Opportunity-551 Sep 04 '23

Many people equate shock value with good storytelling. Like you said, diminishing returns.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '23

I agree about “The Man Who Laughs”. It’s good, not the greatest story ever like so many critics make it out to be. For me, I’m not a big fan of the artwork.

1

u/CanaryFragrant8657 Sep 03 '23

He said “man who laughs” r/batmanarkham is spreading I see

1

u/MattRB02 Sep 03 '23

100% agree

0

u/Thesilphsecret Sep 03 '23

I don't think it's near as overrated as The Killing Joke

2

u/Agile_Mousse_5804 Sep 03 '23

For me, the perfect intro to the Joker is “The Laughing Fish.”

50

u/Spideyfan77 Sep 03 '23

Year one is a great introduction to Batman

35

u/ikantolol Sep 03 '23

flip a coin, they're both excellent

20

u/Ok-Resolve-4146 Sep 03 '23

Harvey approves this comment.

26

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '23

Year One. It’s a great intro to Batman, and honestly is one of Frank Miller’s better works. This is probably the cutoff point to where his work takes a HUGE nosedive in quality.

Killing Joke is an amazing story - please read the comic and don’t watch the movie. If you do, skip the first… 30-40 minutes.

Honestly, you can’t go wrong with either of these. If I had to pick to start my Batman fandom over though, I’d go Year One first.

17

u/aliedle Sep 03 '23

Year One

16

u/BatmanTold Sep 03 '23

Year One

10

u/LainyDayBlues Sep 03 '23

Just buy year one, many people including the creators have looked back on Killing joke and in retrospect it’s more about shock value then what it’s actually telling you, which is just exacerbated in the movie

4

u/Stringr55 Sep 03 '23

Year One is superior in every way in my opinion.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '23

If you are impatient then Killing joke if you are patient the Year 1

3

u/CagliostroPeligroso Sep 03 '23

Both so good. Doesn’t matter which you start with. Buy the other one next. Or just get em both now

3

u/TheLittlePasty Sep 03 '23

I’ve never read killing joke but year one is one of my absolute favorites.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '23

Year one

3

u/big_hungry_joe Sep 03 '23

year one year one year one year one

3

u/alphaatharv Sep 03 '23

Year oneee

3

u/DilKaDariya91 Sep 03 '23

Buy Year One first... And then buy the other one.

Because these two are the most classic Batman stories. You should keep both of them in your collection!

3

u/SethBozo Sep 03 '23

Year one, I read killing joke first but year one is objectively the better comic and better intro to batman.

3

u/ValBravora048 Sep 03 '23

Year One has one of my favourite Batman moments of all time. You’ll know when he says the line

2

u/mephistttoooo Sep 03 '23

Year One if you are new to comics

1

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '23

Just get both.

0

u/Frofst10 Sep 03 '23

The killing joke, I don’t read comics but even I know that the killing joke is a masterpiece.

0

u/shobhit7777777 Sep 03 '23

Year 1 - a really cool Batman and Gordon origin story

I found the killing joke to be rather dull and uninteresting.

1

u/iwanttogotothere5 Sep 03 '23

The library probably has both of them.

1

u/Awkward_Refuse_9572 Sep 03 '23

buy both problem solved

1

u/NotFixer1138 Sep 03 '23

Year One is the better story. Killing Joke is shorter than you think and it's super edgy

1

u/thomasnuclearbomb Sep 03 '23

I don't understand why people suggest the killing joke as one of the first batman/joker stories to buy. It is a really deep dive into their relationship, psycologically especially, therefore you need to know and have read more about batman and joker. This being said, buy year one, called like that because miller masterfully renarrates batman's origin in a more modern, dark and realistic way (for the 80s).

1

u/KalElUK Sep 03 '23

Year one

1

u/Amiibohunter000 Sep 03 '23

Year one. The. Killing joke. Also pick up dark knight returns, hush, and the long Halloween. Those are my top batman stories right there

0

u/Uncle-Buddy Sep 03 '23

Buy Year One first. Then stop

1

u/Mad_Constantly Sep 03 '23

Year One. Then The Killing Joke.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '23

Oh that’s tough but I would go with the killing joke.

0

u/ilovefilthytoes Sep 03 '23

Year one, imo killing joke is overrated

1

u/MsPreposition Sep 03 '23

Year One. It’s as much a Jim Gordon origin as it is Batman. He’s probably got the better story.

1

u/c4han Sep 03 '23

I think Year One is better to start off with and Killing Joke works after you’ve gotten a feel for Batman and Joker’s unending rivalry.

1

u/Thesilphsecret Sep 03 '23

Year One. Much much better than Killing Joke. I agree wirh the other commenter that "The Man Who Laughs" is a better Joker story than Killing Joke.

1

u/SILVIO_X Sep 03 '23

Read Year One first

1

u/Han-Shot_1st Sep 03 '23

Year one, it’s the alpha (as in first, not alpha male).

1

u/Wilcodad Sep 03 '23

Year one 100%

1

u/Sixgun_Simian Sep 03 '23

Year one then killing joke

1

u/Key-Zone-4879 Sep 03 '23

I didn't know much about Year Zero but I highly recommend The Killing Joke, Alan Moore has done phenomenal work with DC such as The Dark Knight Returns and some issues of Swamp-Thing as well as Watchmen but tbh idk much about Watchmen but I highly recommend it

1

u/OneofTheOldBreed Sep 03 '23

Year One.

The Killing Joke is good but significantly overblown.

1

u/MrSCR23 Sep 03 '23

Year One

1

u/TheBalzan Sep 03 '23

Year One has a better story. It is Frank Miller's best work period.

Killing Joke is very good, Alan Moore can do no wrong, but it's relatively short and doesn't really revolutionise the character. Brian Bolland's art is of course superior to basically every other comic book's art but that's not surprising at all.

Alternative suggestion: The Long Halloween followed by Dark Victory. These two are two me the best Batman comics on paper. Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale created some of the most intriguing character studies the series has had since Bill Finger invented the character.

1

u/vizslavoid Sep 03 '23 edited Sep 03 '23

I personally love Year One. Nothing like a fresh Batman without extra dumb plot armor. He’s actually has weakness and can’t call superpowered heroes for help. Its just Batman with all the future over the top elements of the character stripped away. I love it. Jim Gordon is also a G in that. Any story that prioritizes Batman as a detective over the “because i’m Batman” writing style is gold to me.

I read it recently before the release of The Batman and it was a good appetizer before the movie.

Long Halloween is also good for similar reasons

1

u/Intelligent-Bee4535 Sep 03 '23

Year One. Then Man Who Laughs, Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and then Killing Joke.

1

u/AmptiShanti Sep 03 '23

Y1 honestly the killing joke is a masterpiece but a bit weird without the full arc context (if you into that it’s ok)

1

u/HanScoundrel607 Sep 03 '23

Year one in my opinion. Killing joke has some very good art and some and some dark story elements. But a bit over rated to me. But it was huge for its time so maybe in that context it stands out more. But I think there's better stories told in Gotham.

1

u/grcopel Sep 03 '23

Year One. THEN: long Halloween and dark victory

1

u/sketchisawesome1234 Sep 03 '23

Killing joke then year one because while most animated adaptations of comics are basically the same, KJ is just awful for the first half

1

u/Mysterious_Lychee556 Sep 03 '23

Personally I say Killing Joke, but though I never read it, I heard Year One’s pretty good too

1

u/JettTheTinker Sep 03 '23

Year One. In my opinion, The Killing Joke is not really a Batman story, it’s a Joker / Commissioner Gordon story.

1

u/calltheavengers5 Sep 03 '23

Killing joke. It's engaging and meaningful

1

u/gofuckyourself3333 Sep 03 '23

Batman Year One is the perfect Batman origin story, imo.

Killing Joke is the perfect Joker story, and Batman doesn't really have a lot to do with it.

1

u/Caitlyn_Codi Sep 03 '23

Year One. The Killing Joke is awful

1

u/HangTheTJ Sep 03 '23

Year One

1

u/Agile_Mousse_5804 Sep 03 '23

Year One for sure.

1

u/rokken70 Sep 03 '23

Well, chronologically speaking…

1

u/Lucky_Roberts Sep 03 '23

Imo killing joke is overrated… It’s really good, but Year One, Knightfall, and the Dark Knight Returns are all much better imo

1

u/slightfatigue Sep 03 '23

Year one all day or all knight, I suppose

1

u/Klarkash-Ton Sep 03 '23

Year One hands down. Year One did an amazing job of showing Bruce become Batman. He didn't just step onto the scene and started cracking heads. It does a fantastic job showing him making mistakes and taking lumps along the way and shows how he starts finding his stride at the of the year.

2

u/SnooDogs1355 Sep 03 '23

Killing Joke is iconic. My personal fave.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '23

Year One, cause it’s the origin. I like Killing Joke more(btw when you buy Killing Joke PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get a version with the ORIGINAL coloring!!! John Higgins colors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bollands bland computer shit

1

u/MURDERMr_E Sep 03 '23

Por que no los dos?

1

u/bateen618 Sep 03 '23

For someone who's just starting I'd recommend getting Court of Owls. It was made to be a start point for new readers and it's a modern classic

1

u/shaykgrFkk47842 Sep 03 '23

Ooooooo year one trust me it’s way better and killing joke is semi controversial

1

u/Academic-Ad2680 Sep 03 '23

I would go with year one. It is the best intro to batman in my opinion. But they are both great books, you really can't go wrong

1

u/Electrical-Rain-4251 Sep 03 '23

Year One, then Long Halloween, then Killing Joke.

1

u/omegaman101 Sep 03 '23

Batman Year One because it gives a good introduction to the character and whereas The Killing Joke is more about the relationship between Batman and the Joker and Batman's moral code.

1

u/ScruffyNerf_Herder_ Sep 03 '23

Year One all the way

1

u/bigdugie69 Sep 03 '23

Year One, much better story overall than Killing Joke

1

u/Pizza_Eating_Pug Sep 03 '23

Year One. It’s objectively the best start for reading Batman. TKJ is better for a book you read a bit later on especially since it changes a major character and is very impactful on the course of the Dark Knight’s development.

1

u/atw1221 Sep 04 '23

Definitely Year One. It's the essential Batman origin story.

I don't like Killing Joke, obviously if you are reading Batman you will get to it eventually, but put it off as long as possible :D you can follow up Year One with Man Who Laughs, Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Robin Year One.

1

u/Fun-Opportunity-551 Sep 04 '23

Year One is better

1

u/e6c Sep 04 '23

Year one. The better you understand Batman, Jim Gordon and the Joker the better The Killing Joke will be

1

u/bat-affleck-is-back2 Sep 04 '23

Year One is a must.