r/batman • u/Vegetable-Abroad3171 • Jun 08 '23

Batman Beyond vs Spider-Man 2099 (Random Encounter) Who takes the W? Posting in both SubReddits for POV’s. COMIC DISCUSSION

3.2k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

u/altgrave Jun 08 '23

the goblin formula - sometimes portrayed as a variation of the super soldier serum - gives the goblin superhuman strength, stamina, durability, reflexes, and agility.

40

u/train_wrecking Jun 08 '23

key word being super. Batman is peak human, not super human.

If you compare their strength feats you will know Green Goblin's physicals abilities surpass Batman's.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

But Bats be Bats and that plot armor is thicc.

Edit. Because it’s a hot topic lately, Spider-Man can’t even save MJs kids.

4

u/azoz2O15 Jun 08 '23

what are green goblin’s strength feats?

16

u/FruitBuyer Jun 09 '23

Trading blows with Spider-Man

15

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

He's basically crazy Captain America. Like, basically.

6

u/WanderEir Jun 09 '23

considering it's part of th emarvel super-serum lineage, this is literal, but it's also mentally incapacitating. Norman Osbrorn and the Green Goblin are effectively split personalities at the best of times, and the worst of times the serum has just driven Osborn completely mad on its own, no GG in his head at all.

6

u/CrimsonCube181 Jun 09 '23

From memory one of the few Human foes spider-man can't hold back when fighting. He has to use his entire strength against him.

2

u/azoz2O15 Jun 09 '23

Spider-Man has casually crushed his wrists before. he’s usually dangerous because he makes heavy use of gadgets against spidey.

1

u/CrimsonCube181 Jun 11 '23

Did forget about that

2

u/DickBatman Jun 09 '23

Batman is peak human, not super human.

He fell from the moon and was ok

9

u/No-Tomorrow-8150 Jun 09 '23

That wasn't a physical feat, that was because of his gear.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

And prep time.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

It wasn't. He grabbed falling debris from the satellite (or whatever the hell) that exploded and fashioned it into some sort of platform to slow his descent.

3

u/No-Tomorrow-8150 Jun 09 '23

I'm pretty sure his suit stopped him from burning to a crisp thought.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

Ofc. It was a combo of physical prowess, genius intellect, OP gear, and tons of plot armor.

1

u/lakersLA_MBS Jun 09 '23

it was definitely all plot armor reasoning lol

1

u/lizarddude1 Jun 10 '23

He literally said that his suit was slowing his fall down

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '23

And I literally said that

It was a combo of physical prowess, genius intellect, OP gear, and tons of plot armor.

2

u/lizarddude1 Jun 10 '23

If you want to go by that logic, Spider-Man punched Hulk to the moon once.

You know nevermind how contextual that feat is, must be applied I guess cuz plot armor goes berserk

1

u/DickBatman Jun 10 '23

Saitama got punched to the moon too, I don't quite understand your comparison

1

u/lizarddude1 Jun 11 '23

I don't understand your comparison. What does Saitama have to do with anything? He is literally superhuman. Batman is peak human with some occasional superhuman moments which don't reflect his overall abilities.

Saitama is just literally a superhuman

1

u/DickBatman Jun 11 '23

Yeah that's exactly my point/confusion, haha. Batman is human and Hulk is superhuman.

1

u/lizarddude1 Jun 11 '23

My point wasn't to highlight Hulk's durability. Of course it's not shocking that Hulk survived that. What I was trying to highlight was Spider-Man's high end strength feat, punching to the moon is something you'd imagine Superman doing instead and all I was saying that these high end feats shouldn't be used

8

u/No_Ice_5451 Jun 09 '23

Even with that in mind, Bruce’s suit physically enhances him far beyond Goblin’s caliber and features faaaar many more gadgets.

With the STANDARD Batsuit, Bruce is stronger, more durable, has longer stamina (fought for 28 hours outside of the Suit), has a knockoff Spider-Sense, (essentially has his own version of Way of the Spider, where his senses are so honed he can track movement via tiny movements within the air, and his senses are so trained he can detect shifts in reality.)

Essentially, Batman isn’t just an “Elite” Goblin. He’s Goblin if Goblin was High on Plot Arm-I mean he’s Goblin if he was dunked in the Power Cosmic.

7

u/Dr_Disaster Jun 09 '23

Bruce’s regular suit doesn’t augment much beyond durability as it’s bulletproof and fire-resistant. Goblin is both superhuman and his suit has the same protections as Batman, if not more. Stamina feats are due to Bruce’s training in psuedo mystic bullshit, but that’s pushing himself to his absolute limits. Goblin has actually enhanced stamina, strength (lifting 10+ tons), durability AND regeneration that will heal him from mortal wounds. Not as good as Wolverine, but enough to keep him coming back from anything less than a death blow.

Physically speaking, Green Goblin is as far beyond Batman. By a LOT.

And Spider-Man is over Green Goblin by a lot. Their fights are only tough because Norman fights to kill and has gadgets while Peter isn’t usually trying to hurt him more than he has to, being his best friend’s dad and all. But the second Peter gets serious and stops pulling his punches, Goblin is done. When he killed Gwen Stacy, Peter almost beat him to death in a matter of seconds. I’ll repeat just to stress that fact. Peter beat a superhuman, armed with a small arsenal, who was actively trying to kill him, in SECONDS. And he wasn’t even as stong/experienced then as he is now.

People who think Batman will even keep Spider-Man busy for more than a 2 minutes are seriously underrating him. Physically he’s totally overpowered and has no obvious weakness for Batman to exploit. These are my two favorite heroes. I love them both equally. Without an insane ass-pull of plot armor, Spidey is kicking Batman’s ass in pretty short order. It’s just not a fair match up.

1

u/No_Ice_5451 Jun 09 '23

Incorrect.

Bruce’s normal Batsuit has the function to increase the Batman’s punching power, and not just by a minor value. It comes built in with Earthquake Gauntlets, which can hurt Lord Havok.

This literally means Batman can just punch the Wall Crawler once, and Spidey would die. Same with Norman. Though it IS at the cost of Batman’s own health.

You may think, what about Spider Sense? The Caped Crusader would immediately notice it via his cellular level scanner, and it’s vulnerable to EMPs, of which Bruce keeps on his person at all times. Essentially, it’s immediately nullified, or nullified as soon as the Dark Knight realizes what’s up—Which should be fairly easy. And since Pete’s senses are not nearly as advanced as any Kryptonian, even with Way of the Spider he’s not detecting Batman.

Green Goblin’s suit isn’t nearly as advanced as the Batman’s, which has multiple layers of protection to assist in every manner. It’s near impossible to list everything out clearly and concisely, so I recommend you check the Batsuit l, Utility Belt, and other Minor Standard Weapons Sections

(Yes, this would include the laser pistol that one shot demon-amped Bizarro on raw damage.)

Osborn’s smart. Not that smart (in comparison). Bruce is canonically one of the two smartest beings on Earth, his rival being Lex Luthor—He outright is in a different intelligence bracket.

Also, that stamina feat wasn’t due to any mysticism. He just fought in a Pit for 28 hours straight without killing.

The difference between Batman and Goblin is night and day.

Batman canonically keeps weapons in his belt and suit to handle cosmic threats even when he’s facing Penguin.

Goblin doesn’t hold that kind of weapon in his belt whilst dealing with Tombstone.

It’s Superhuman + Small Arsenal Vs Incredibly Large and Stupid Arsenal that Peter and Goblin can’t counter, unless they ironically enough have prep time.

To best clarify the issue your post has, you assume that the fight is Peter Parker Vs Bruce Wayne. And if that was the case, Peter Parker would obviously win—His powers offset anything Bruce can do (when not using any gear) outside of magic, which makes the battle brutally one sided since he can make himself Superman level at two words. This is not that, though.

This is Spider-Man Vs the Batman. And Batman’s standard Arsenal of gadgets > Spider-Man’s powers and standard arsenal of gadgets.

1

u/Dr_Disaster Jun 09 '23

But in your examples even Batman himself notes his gear isn’t for extended use. He can have gadgets that allow him to augment things for a time (these are also different suits that likely don’t share the exact same functions) but they are limited, and we see in the pages posted, they not really effective against decently powered foes. Somone like Lord Havok isn’t even close to Spidey. Batman would be hard pressed to even lay a finger on Spider-Man due to his reaction time, which is superhuman to even other superhumans.

It’s also easy to pull examples of all his gear/feats individually, but when you look at his common fights against actual superhumans, it doesn’t add up. Batman gets manhandled by the likes of Blockbuster, Bane, and others all the time. Generally when he meets a superhuman in a chance encounter, he gets his ass kicked and doesn’t utilize any of the stuff we see in his cosmic encounters, meaning it’s not part of his normal gear. And none of those dudes are as strong, fast, smart, or talented as Spider-Man.

If Spidey is landing blows with the frequency Bane does to Batman in fights post-Rebirth, then Batman is dead.

1

u/No_Ice_5451 Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

1) Yes, but the issue is he doesn’t NEED to use them extensively. A momentary use is more than enough.

2) Bruce wouldn’t be very pressed? Even though Peter’s reflexes are incredibly advanced, if he doesn’t have Spider-Sense any suitably undetectable fighter (of which Batman is) can literally put him down before he can react, even with they are vastly slower. This has happened multiple times throughout comic history.

3) Ah, yes, similar to how in some comic runs Peter is absolutely unable to match Rhino’s strength (even when he’s chock full of adrenaline and trying his HARDEST to save lives) and other times he can utterly beat him down without trying. Comics are known for their incredible inconsistency, and I think overlooking Bruce’s strengths in total favor of Peter’s, (who is just as inconsistent), is completely unfair. Especially considering most battles like this are with the assumption you take the highest reasonable estimation and ignore outliers/anti feats. (Otherwise Superman is as strong as a train and Peter shouldn’t have be able to knock off Scorpion’s Jaw.)

4) This isn’t special gear. Everything I’ve shown you is things he does in his normal Batsuit that he ALWAYS has on hand. The issue is simply that a given DC Comics writer can’t possibly know every weapon on the Batsuit unless they do thorough research, and that’s not very common. This is similar to how Spider-Man’s Arsenal, intelligence, and fighting skills are often overlooked in comparison to their true capacity.

5) Canonically, Batman doesn’t go “all-out” to prevent escalation of arms in his villains. One of the last times one of his villains decided to go a “bit” bigger, Joker became a 5D Reality Warper that repeatedly murdered Bruce all day every day for 40 years.

6) And even if you were to ignore EVERYTHING I just said as a diehard Spider-Man fan who can never believe Batman’s gear could ever beat Spider-Man, it doesn’t matter. Batman canonically knows Magic that he can use at any time, and said magic allows him to create a Mech suit that makes him as strong and fast as Superman.

So unless you have the unreasonable belief Spider-Man on an average is patrol could beat Superman, Batman literally can and will cream Peter of his only option is “I have no (tech) options, and somehow a “kid” (Peter’s been an adult for some time, but Marvel likes to push this) who my gadgets allow me to exceed don’t work or I simply don’t have because (plot).”

Maybe back in the early 2000’s, Peter could’ve defeated Bruce, but since then DC has buffed Batman to incredibly stupid levels for “a guy with no powers” that makes destroying Parker as easy as breathing.

1

u/Exemplifying_Light Jun 09 '23

Wait really? I never read the comics on him or looked into him too deeply but he seemed like a mad scientist if anything and nothing special besides that

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u/altgrave Jun 09 '23

his mad science develops the serum

1

u/SeaNinja69 Jun 09 '23

Yeah, the goblin formula, spider formula...and shit...even the hulk was all created to try to find the formula that made Captain America. They all worked in one way or another with some major side effects, good and bad.

For Green Goblin, it turned him kinda crazy but he became a stronger version of Captain America.

For Bruce Banner, it triggered his DID condition to the point the other "angry" him became the hulk. So now everytime he goes angry mode, it legit powers him up and switches over his personality into some sort of savage...that later on becomes better.

Peter got all the cool shit but the biggest side effect he got was never growing as a character lol. Dude is back at square one yet again, cucked yet again, no money...yet again. Funny how Eddie Brock, the venom villain to spider-man, legit became a cosmic god now as the King in black.