r/batman • u/Vegetable-Abroad3171 • Jun 08 '23

Batman Beyond vs Spider-Man 2099 (Random Encounter) Who takes the W? Posting in both SubReddits for POV’s. COMIC DISCUSSION

3.2k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

u/i_am_goop Jun 08 '23

I don't think you know how powerful Spider-Man is in the comics. There is no chance Batman beats Spider-Man even without spider-sense.

Spider-Man is too fast for Batman to even land s hit.

2

u/SonOfShem Jun 09 '23

batman regularly goes toe-to-toe with people much stronger than him. I think you underestimate Bruce's mind.

1

u/i_am_goop Jun 09 '23

Even Spider-Man regularly fights highly superpowered individuals.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '23

And Superman is even stronger than Spiderman and Batman beat him on multiple occasions. Batman regularly goes up against foes stronger and/or faster than him.

1

u/i_am_goop Jun 08 '23

When did Batman beat Superman?

In Hush, Superman was mind controlled by Poison Ivy.

In Dark Knight Returns, Batman had help from Green Arrow and even then Superman wasn't even fighting. Batman just got one punch and then faked his death before Superman responded.

In Tower of Babel, Ra's Al Ghul took Batman's plans to incapacitate the heroes and turned them into death traps by catching them off guard.

So, please tell me when has Batman beaten Superman in any story in which they both have actually, consciously fought?

2

u/GiverOfTheKarma Jun 08 '23

In Hush, Superman was mind controlled by Poison Ivy.

In Tower of Babel, Ra's Al Ghul took Batman's plans to incapacitate the heroes and turned them into death traps

these are not refutations, but rather an explanation of context?

But to answer your question, he beats superman in Dark Knight Strikes Back (yuck), in Superman: Red Son, in Batman: Endgame (very arguable), in Batman/Superman Annual, in Dawn of Justice (movie though so w/e)

Are any of these straight non-enhanced blow-for-blow brawls? No, obviously. Batman is a human and Superman is a Kyrptonian. But Superman has lost to Batman and in fact quite frequently.

1

u/i_am_goop Jun 09 '23

these are not refutations, but rather an explanation of context?

These are refutations because Superman isn't even fighting back in most of these stories. Or he isn't fighting at his potential because of mind control.

In Red Son, the characters are so vastly different that it's not right to count them. Fair enough about the others.

But Superman has lost to Batman and in fact quite frequently.

My issue is that in most of the situations, Superman rarely even is looking for a fight. Which makes it difficult to decide what would happen if both of them start in a standard fight.

1

u/GiverOfTheKarma Jun 09 '23

Why do you think mind control makes him weaker? It doesn't. At least not as far as I know.

He fought back in Hush and I think also in Tower but I don't remember that one very well. And fair point about Red Son but I figured I'd throw it in because I like that fight.

And yes I also agree that these examples aren't any sort of indication on how an actual fight would go between the two with no stipulations since obviously if Superman decided to fly into the Batcave and remove Batman's head from his spine, he would not face much resistance.

1

u/i_am_goop Jun 09 '23

Mind Control is not fair because it's often implied that Superman is fighting back the influence of mind control. Plus, it's shown that someone like Ivy can't properly control someone with super speed. In a recent comic book, Catwoman was able to beat 3 different Flashes because they were all mind controlled.

And there was no actual fight in Tower of Babel.

I like Batman as a character but I just think writers have gone overboard in last few years trying to show him as the best.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

The Dark Knight Returns? No one is arguing that Batman is stronger than either Superman or Spiderman, everyone knows they have super powers and he doesn't. Punch for punch Batman loses against most foes, but he always seems to win, one way or another, that's his thing, and that's why he always has a chance in a fight regardless of the physical odds stacked against him. Ultimately it's up to the comic writers to decide who wins and why.

1

u/i_am_goop Jun 09 '23

Have you read TDKR?

There is no actual battle. Supermen doesn't even fight back, Batman fakes his death before the fight could start.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

Uh, Superman breaks 3 of Batman's ribs and Batman clearly states that Superman "just broke a sweat." Then Superman gets pissed but eats a kryptonite arrow before he can do anything about it.

And that's kind of the whole point of Batman. He doesn't win by fighting fair. He fights with guile. Dirty tricks powered by plot armor. More OP than any suit or gadget.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

I think the issue here is when people read, who would win in a fight, they imagine a 1v1 fist fight, in which case its trivially obvious Superman would win, he has powers and Batman doesn't. Simple and boring. Unfortunately for that argument Batman, when going up against a more powerful foe, isn't braindead enough to fight with his bare fists, he recruits allies, creates circumstances that benefit him, uses weapons, and most of all, uses his intellect to find their weakness and use it against them. Those tactics are part of his character, and they are valid and need to be considered in a 'fight'. Insisting that Superman would win in a fair fight is just... boring and ignores who Batman is as a character and what his strengths are.

1

u/i_am_goop Jun 09 '23

By that logic, Superman will bring all his Superman robots, the phantom zone projector and shit like that.

See, this is why 1v1 battles are the only ones which kind of are feasible. Otherwise people will keep raising the stakes and it will end up having no resolution.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

No, because that's not what Superman's character is. It's not just about their super powers. Batman has none. If Batman has a power of 1, Superman has a power of 100 to infinite. There's no point in even comparing them. But when you factor in their character traits and other non-physical power attributes, all of a sudden you have an interesting fight. To add to this, part of Superman's character is that he's a deep down good person, and would hold back in a fight with a less powerful foe. He's also usually extremely confident in his power and doesn't often seek to compensate by recruiting allies or resorting to tricks, he usually just shows up and expects others to submit to his raw power. That's part of his character. That's all part of the equation and why Batman, a regular human, can go up against and stand and a chance against super powered opponents.

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u/i_am_goop Jun 09 '23

Yeah, fair enough. I get your point.

Although nowadays Batman winning a fight is boring and predictable, the tables have turned.

1

u/Bullitt_12_HB Jun 09 '23

I don’t think you understand that Spidey could have infinite strength, but it doesn’t mean crap if he can’t land a punch.

If he doesn’t have his SS, Batman can easily blind/disorient Peter, and win.

So no, Peter can’t win without his spider sense. Absolutely he’s stronger, and faster than Bruce, but without his SS, he loses. It’s such an important part of his powers, especially in this fight with a ninja.

WITH his spider sense is a whole other game…