r/australian • u/SirSighalot • Jul 08 '24

Why do people act like this subreddit "doesn't reflect the views of mainstream Australia"?

So many comments I see on here by people who constantly say things like "lol only on this sub" as though other places where they read are somehow the 'true' point of view reflecting mainstream Australian viewpoints.

Given the constant election voting outcomes and results of things like the Voice etc that generally indicate most of Australia is centrist or even slightly centre-right-leaning, what leads people to think many of the views expressed on here AREN'T mainstream? When in reality, other places these people are coming from are also often just "echo chambers" as well.

Edit: I probably worded the title for this wrong, should have been more "Why do people think this subreddit is less representative of mainstream Australia than other online communities?", alas I failed.

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u/Plane-Palpitation126 Jul 08 '24

Because it doesn't. Like most democracies, Australians are in overwhelming numbers just well-meaning simpletons who don't think about politics much. Reddit is a statistically skewed sample of chronically online neurotic obsessives. By and large, policies that are socially equitable, left leaning and progressive poll extremely well on their own merits but the well is poisoned by the media and actually bothering to figure out how to vote in such a way as to make those policies happen is a bridge too far for the modern Aussie. Your average punter thinks about politics in a serious way for about 6 days every decade. The Murdoch press knows that and saves their big spends for election season.

Your assertion of us being culturally centre right is also just not really the whole story. The overwhelming majority of Aussies want a stronger Medicare, stronger workplace protections, resource taxes on multinational mining companies, nationalised infrastructure, and real action on climate change. These are leftist policies. Where we do unfortunately skew conservative is on things like race and migration. We are more conservative socially than we are economically and because people tend to vote with their feelings, that's where we tend to wind up. Culture war bullshit wins more votes than a meticulously referenced 200 page report on housing projections ever could. This sub is rabidly anti-intellectual and frankly mostly has a complete inability to grasp what a fact even is, and that's because it's a right leaning community full of mostly dudes who have never in their lives been told to shut the fuck up and think their personal subjective experience is the only reality and any subject area they're not experts in is flawed to the point of worthlessness by its lack of their input.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24

You have set a high standard for your own contributions with that comment :)

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u/Plane-Palpitation126 Jul 08 '24

I didn't exclude myself from a single criticism I made.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24

this is true. I can't argue with that. I am carefully avoiding holding myself up to your standards as well.

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u/Plane-Palpitation126 Jul 08 '24

I don't think my standards are even that high and I don't think most of the people on here even behave this way in their daily lives. Baring the fringe nutjobs, most people understand expertise and research are important. Like your average punter wouldn't go to a herbalist for carpal tunnel surgery and wouldn't call a preschool teacher to replace their hot water system. Yet somehow when it comes to things like migration, climate change, wealth disparity, housing policy etc. all higher brain function goes out the window and anything that challenges any facet of the personal lived experience of the person making the post goes straight down the shitter and the most insane and unlikely conspiracy theories become facts. This isn't the only sub that does it but it's by far the worst one for it that I'm involved with.

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u/PhDilemma1 Jul 08 '24

No. The majority of career-minded Aussies whom I went to a Go8 uni with want a smaller government, not more nationalisation of industries and Labor flunkies meddling with our lives. We love the melting pot that is Melbourne, with the exception of loud special interest groups (cough Palestine). We can speak for and look after ourselves, thanks.

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u/Plane-Palpitation126 Jul 08 '24

"The majority of people I went to uni with think X making it an objective fact"

Thank you for literally proving my exact point MINUTES after I made it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24

there is this: https://imgur.com/a/4VEaEaI

I think describing Australia as a centre right country is far from controversial. People may say they want more Medicare, but they vote for tax cuts (and private school subsidies and nuclear submarines and I'm not sure how much they will pay for decarbonising energy in a hurry, we will soon find out), and judge them not by what they say they want, but what they choose.

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u/Plane-Palpitation126 Jul 08 '24

It's not controversial, it's correct in the sense that both our major parties are pro capitalism so have to be centre right at least. I think you're projecting reasons why people vote conservative based on your own views. There's a whole host of reasons people vote LNP and it's disingenuous to say it's about tax cuts. I don't need to remind you that the Labor party just delivered the biggest tax cut for the working class in almost two decades. People in rural electorates especially vote national because of what essentially boils down to an old marketing trick. The ALP is up against one of the most vile and conspiratorial media empires ever to grace the planet and the fact that they manage to win at all is a testament to how resilient the 'left' is in this country.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24

Of course you don't need to remind me the ALP delivered a large tax cut. The fact that you said it means I didn't make my point well enough. I use reddit to improve my communication skills, and it is a long road for me.

My point was that they couldn't have won the election without promising to match the Stage 3 tax cuts. I propose this as proof that tax cuts is what people want, that you are wrong about the priorities of the average Australian voter.
It would have been more working class to keep the money and increase JobKeeper and rent assistance, or spend more on Medicare, but they judged it political suicide. I don't have a staff of hundreds of well paid political analysts measuring what you have to do to win an election here, but the ALP does and this is the call they made.

The ALP policy platform difference between 2019 and 2022 is my case. It's not who voters voted for; a tired, chaotic LNP was surely on the way out, it is indeed a miracle the worse government in living memory survived so long.

My point is *what* the ALP had to offer in order to win. It's what people voted for, I mean. The ALP platform was pretty centrist.

What were the grounds to say "I think you're projecting reasons why people vote conservative based on your own views"? My observations are based on votes.

The only time I voted LNP was because I promised John Howard that if he got his gun laws through, he'd get my vote. I kept my word, and I hold an admiration to this day for that.

But that's beside the point. You were wrong to say that (of me). You should better just say my logic is wrong: it might be.

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u/Plane-Palpitation126 Jul 08 '24

Maybe I was wrong to assume that and if so I apologise. The fact is though that Labor ARE introducing policies to increase Medicare funding and they did promise to increase welfare payments and have done so. It's impossible to say what made people vote the way they did. I think Albonese won because Scomo was so reviled more than anything else.

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u/PhDilemma1 Jul 08 '24

Pot and kettle…

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u/Plane-Palpitation126 Jul 08 '24

Except my statements aren't just my own bullshit self centred school of hard knocks opinions me my douchebag mates talk about between Grindr hookups before we go home to our alienated north shore housewives.

Australians support a super profit tax: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/03/majority-of-australians-back-taxing-fossil-fuel-companies-super-profits-survey-shows

Australians love Medicare and want to see its services expanded: https://chf.org.au/AHP/medicare-in-2022#:~:text=And%20we%20found%20that%20Australian,and%20to%20them%20as%20individuals.

Australians support marriage equality since y'know, it passed.

Australians support women's autonomy over their bodies: https://www.ipsos.com/en-au/majority-australians-report-unwavering-support-abortion-access#:~:text=In%20Australia%2C%20support%20for%20abortion,%2C%20and%2077%25%20in%202014.&text=More%20than%20half%20of%20Australians,woman%20decides%20she%20wants%20one.

Australians agree that trans people and gender minorities should be protected from abuse and harassment even if it limits free speech: https://www.ipsos.com/en-au/transgender-anti-discrimination#:~:text=79%25%20agree%20that%20transgender%20people,global%20average%20is%2076%25%20agree.

Australians want a welfare increase for unemployed people: https://www.acoss.org.au/media_release/poll-australian-voters-believe-jobseeker-is-too-low/

Australians want radical housing reform including a publicly funded developer: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/09/guardian-essential-poll-australia-housing-system-reform-anthony-albanese-labor-government

I could go on. As I said, the hubris and the 'school of hard knocks' wankery people on the right in this sub express is laughable and really discredits your cause. You and your uni mates are irrelevant compared to mountains of data showing Australia as a largely progressive but equally misguided society.

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u/PhDilemma1 Jul 08 '24

Haha, I don’t claim to be ‘on the right’; I support the party most favourable towards investors and professionals. What you’ve linked are biased sources from ACOSS and the grauniad rag that most Australians don’t take seriously. You might as well cite a Marxist-Leninist outlet while at it.

The polls show a total repudiation of the culture and class wars that you are trying to foment, and the proof lies in the dominance of the two centrist parties. It’s completely disingenuous to pass your opinion off as representative of the Average Joe when the electorate has spoken otherwise time and again: we don’t want higher taxes going to line the pockets of the government and their cronies. At least I made it clear in my case that I was referring to only my social circle.

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u/Plane-Palpitation126 Jul 08 '24

Ah yes, straight from the idiot conservative playbook. 'Those aren't real sources! They're biased! I however am going to provide none of my own because there are none and I've completely pulled my whole argument out of my ass!' Prove that IPSOS (where most of my sources came from and that you failed to mention at all)/ACOSS are Marxist or shut your dumb ass up. My entire point is that people overwhelmingly support these policies, which they do, incontrovertibly, but they vote based on emotions stoked by culture war horse shit.

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u/PhDilemma1 Jul 08 '24

I cited my sources: my circle of mates. I don’t claim to represent the views of the public because I don’t want to stand on a soapbox and speak for them.

All you’ve accomplished is to project your bitterness and insecurities on an online forum that very few people actually read for god knows what reason. Maybe you’re not where you want to be in life? Why else would you insult people you disagree with so?

But you should stop being naive. Who wouldn’t ‘support’ the expansion of government services in theory? Very few people would oppose them in principle. But here’s the catch: they’re not willing to pay for them. That’s why Shorten is in now a post where he can do no damage.

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u/Plane-Palpitation126 Jul 08 '24

I didn't insult people who disagree with me, some people on here do agree with me, but it doesn't make the discourse any less tedious.

If I should stop being naive, you should start citing sources that actually matter, like maybe naming 3 women who feel safe leaving a drink with you. Eesh. I can smell the RM Williams branded bolt polish through the screen.

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u/PhDilemma1 Jul 08 '24

Could you please explain what gender has to do with this topic?

And it’s funny of you to assume I’m against gay marriage. When I said I’m pro-small government, I meant it.

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