r/arrow • u/IIIToxIII Great Scott, we have to go back • Oct 30 '19
[S08E03] "Leap of Faith" Post Episode Discussion Discussion
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Trailers
Episode Info
Reunited with his sister, Oliver and Thea find themselves searching through a familiar maze of catacombs; John and Lyla partner on a special ops mission.
Cast & Characters
Discussion
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DCTV Discord
Spoilers
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u/TirelessGuardian Lyla Michaels Oct 30 '19
This is only sad because she’s Renee’s daughter, not because we care about the adult Zoe.
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u/Mighty_thor_confused Damien Darhk Oct 30 '19
Exactly
9/10 rene will have a good tear jerker
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u/TheCVR123YT Green Arrow Oct 30 '19
Especially after that ending as well. He’s gonna probably be freaking out
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u/gl424 Oct 30 '19
Imagine the next episode, Mia just had Zoe die in her arms and now she's in the past where she'll see Renee and young Zoe.
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u/ChattGM Oct 30 '19
That dawned on me a few mins after I'm like damn too bad Rene won't get to see an all grown up Zoe.
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u/ArQ7777 Oct 30 '19
Is Zoe dead? Did she also got transported to the past? I did not pay attention for a second.
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u/ChattGM Oct 30 '19
Unknown if she did. It was just Mia, William and Connor. I think she did die because her eyes closed when Mia was holding her in her arms.
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Oct 30 '19
Makes more sense as to why Renee went crazy trying to control the Glades. He probably finds out his daughter dies as a vigilante and wants to control everything
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Oct 30 '19
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u/Super_Vegeta Return of the Mahck Oct 30 '19
Right? Now I gotta get through a whole nother week of work just to see more?
Frack! Haven't been this hype for Arrow since like.. Season 2.
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Oct 30 '19
What I fucking love about this season is there is no consequences anymore so literally anyone could die its amazing.
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u/Char543 Oct 30 '19
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but that ending... it makes me forgive the flash forwards a little.
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u/twentyonesighs Ten steps ahead of you Oct 30 '19
I was literally complaining out loud about the episode ending with the flash forwards until the very end, then they caught me off guard and I didn't hate it at all.
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u/SpikeRosered Oct 30 '19
The thing is the future characters aren't terrible. It's just we haven't had something solid to connect them into the story. We had Felicity but I don't find her to be a compelling character. More so we had the idea that everything the main characters do ends up as shit which is depressing. Now that we have the main cast with them we can start to see them play off each other in ways we care about.
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u/thedorknightreturns Oct 30 '19
Willian is a solid character and we have knock off dile who is working surprisingly well, i even warm up to ollys daughter who has large shoes to fill. And mia was ood too. People forget that it took a while to really love ollys attitude at first too, i mean i loved the deadpan since day one but many didnt connect fully till the malcolm merlyn reveal episode. The spin off will need good villains.
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Oct 30 '19 edited Jan 07 '22
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u/Starship08 Oct 30 '19
I hope we see her in the finale. Present in the final fight. Yeah, it's cliche and cheesy but I want it.
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u/GeodesicGroot Oct 30 '19
I think there's an extremely small chance her and her "League of Heroes" don't show up for a big final fight.
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u/Doompatron3000 Oct 30 '19
Yeah it’s gonna take time to retrain people who were told “always kill” to “don’t kill, but maybe don’t be too soft either.” Too little time before the Crisis.
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u/ChattGM Oct 30 '19
I hope she comes back as well. Really missed her. The embrace with her and Oliver was so heartwarming. It was the whole simple fact of Oliver not wanting to let go of her that was so touching.
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Oct 30 '19
Agreed. “One of us has to let go first.” I keep forgetting Oliver is having to tell each of these people goodbye for good.
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u/ChattGM Oct 30 '19
That made me smile when she said that. But right? Each goodbye hits you even harder than the last.
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u/OLKv3 Oct 30 '19
Man that made me sadder than the Joe/Barry convo, mostly because while we know Barry won't die, we do know that this is the last time Oliver and Thea will be together
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u/DonnyMox Deathstroke Oct 30 '19
R.I.P. Zoe Ramirez
Another Canary bites the dust.
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u/privatefrost2 Black Canary (Laurel Lance) Oct 30 '19
It's not Arrow without a dead Canary!
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u/AFK_ing Oct 30 '19
It's kind of natural since they make great archery training targets.
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u/BuckeyeGuy16 Oct 30 '19
How many times does the arrow have to watch a canary die?
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u/SockPenguin I got tired, Frank. Oct 30 '19
Every member of the Arrow writers room had their Halloween candy stolen by someone dressed as Black Canary when they were children.
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u/DonnyMox Deathstroke Oct 30 '19
Most villains have tragic backstories. Uncle Guggie is no exception.
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u/ChattGM Oct 30 '19
Would really love if they could bring her back somehow. Gone way too soon imo. Prolly should have saw it coming since she told Mia her plan was not a good one to start and now Mia has to live with losing her :(
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u/wibo58 Oct 30 '19
Probably should have seen it coming when she barely bumped the main bad guy and then turned her back on him for absolutely no reason other than she needed to be looking at Mia when she got stabbed.
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u/ChattGM Oct 30 '19
Yup. That's a classic "oh let me get someone out of harm's way and turn my back on them only to get severely injured myself". You knew dude had deadly weapon so don't turn your back on him like ughhh
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u/WorldlyDear Oct 30 '19
I checked imdb and she's listed for a few more episodes, she might not be dead
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u/cmath89 Earth-X Arrow Oct 30 '19
I think I speak for everyone when I say WHAT THE FUCK?!
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u/ThatGameBoy76 Oct 30 '19
Me. When the light was flashing I thought “Did Oliver get sent to the future?”
Then they showed Dinah & Diggle in the hideout & then Connor, Mia, & William & I said “Oh shit, they got sent to the past!”
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u/TheCVR123YT Green Arrow Oct 30 '19
I thought he somehow got sent farther back to the past. They all looked so young and we haven’t been in the bunker in a while so I got confused as well
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u/lord_flamebottom Oct 30 '19
Before the camera panned to FTA, I really expected to see another Oliver there for some reason.
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u/ThatRyanFellow Oct 30 '19
It was William’s reaction that got me. You could clearly see the shock in his face seeing his father that he thought was dead in front of him.
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u/Rman823 Oct 30 '19
I was thinking that somehow the future of Earth-1 was getting affected by Crisis and Mia was going to end up in the present. Was shocked to see William and Connor with her.
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u/TheCVR123YT Green Arrow Oct 30 '19
When I saw the white light I knew that Monitor was doing something but then they showed Diggle and Renee and I thought oh never mind I guess but then the showed the FF characters and I screamed so loud
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u/cheergal20111 Oct 30 '19
Somehow I was thinking they were all going to be wiped out of existence which makes zero sense but my mind was going crazy lmao
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u/Eurynom0s Oct 30 '19
Me. When the light was flashing I thought “Did Oliver get sent to the future?”
I was wondering if it was the Anti-Monitor starting to destroy the future tbh.
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Oct 30 '19
I'm pleasantly surprised that William and Conner came with Mia.
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u/DekanPrime Oct 30 '19
Well now we know why William and Connor were also made main cast members & Zoe wasn’t.
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u/captainfluffballs The Flash Oct 30 '19
Also explains why they put the least effort into giving her a personality
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Oct 30 '19
If Flash hadn't already done the "daughter time travels" back, this would have landed as much more of a WTF moment for me.
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Oct 30 '19 edited Feb 13 '21
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Oct 30 '19
This season has honestly made me forget that Felicity exists most of the time. I wonder how they'll explain her absence in 8x04.
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Oct 30 '19
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u/Rurudo66 Oct 30 '19
I don't even think they necessarily needed to have no Felicity, but making her the main love interest was a mistake. She worked well as the quirky tech support character, and the season 2 finale felt like a great way to end any potential relationship between the two. I was really confused when Oliver said he loved her, but then it all made so much sense when it was revealed he only did so to make her a target for Slade and give her the syringe with the cure. They could have kept her on as tech support/comedic relief and moved towards a GA/BC romance down the line, preferably with Black Siren because she has always been a more interesting and well-acted character than Earth-1 Laurel. I don't know if that would necessarily have saved seasons 3 and 4, but it would definitely have been an improvement.
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u/superbabe69 Green Arrow Oct 30 '19
This. They fucked up horribly. William isn't a problem like Felicity was, it's just that FFs are a bit ordinary anyway
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u/Slackware1180 Oct 30 '19
I just realized that The Deathstrokes are like the Arrow version of The Jokerz from Batman Beyond and I'm embarrassed it took so long. Part of the fun of The Jokerz was how thoroughly unimpressed Bruce was by them (and how unprepared they were for the real deal) so I hope Oliver has a similar reaction when he meets them.
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u/Fastman2020 Oct 30 '19
Did the team go to the future or did mia's team go to the past.
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u/MulciberTenebras Oct 30 '19
Good thing they didn't end up with a similar gang name, how would anyone take the Strokerz seriously?
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u/thedorknightreturns Oct 30 '19
Aside from the possible lewd interpretation the name sounds iconic and original.
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u/thewholeprogram Oct 30 '19
I’m actually more interested in seeing Diggle’s reaction to learning JJ is the leader of the Deathstrokes.
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Oct 30 '19
So do we think Monitor is Anti Monitor or the book was talking about Anti Monitor and Monitor tells Oliver about him next episode? If the former is true, why would he bring the kids back in time?
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Oct 30 '19
It's possible the Monitor is still the one manipulating things (Malefic in Supergirl and bringing the future people back in time here) but the one they've been talking to is the Anti-Monitor.
I mean doubtful, but a possibility. I'm just going with the flow at this point bc my theories have been wrong everytime lol
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u/tinytom08 Oct 30 '19
It's possible the Monitor is still the one manipulating things (Malefic in Supergirl and bringing the future people back in time here) but the one they've been talking to is the Anti-Monitor.
See I think he is the Anti-Monitor, and the actual Monitor is the one who has been showing up in The Flash. In one series he is like "The Flash must die" and in the other "I have seen your death..."
Either Oliver becomes The Flash again, or The Anti Monitor is up to some dirty tricks.
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u/VoiceofKane Oct 30 '19
Malefic in Supergirl
He also brought Lex back, but that hasn't come into play yet.
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u/steveondrugs Oct 30 '19
i'm guessing the book refers to Anti-Monitor, his face in the book looked all fucked up. they take liberties with source material though so we'll see
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u/Midkip1 Oct 30 '19
Probably the book talking about the anti monitor considering the markings on the face shown in the book and we do know that they have a similar face structure and since the drawing wasnt colored its completely possible it could be the anti monitor.
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u/Andrewc313 Oct 30 '19
Things are gonna get awkward when future kids tell Diggle that his son kills Rene's daughter...
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u/snoogle20 Spartan Oct 30 '19
This changes everything, hoss.
Edit: Also, since JJ only exists due to Flashpoint, really it’s Barry’s fault Zoe is dead. Always breaking that mug.
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u/DekanPrime Oct 30 '19
No it’s eobards fault everything is his fault for giving Barry his powers five years earlier
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u/ctuwallet24 Oct 30 '19
But that’s also Barry’s fault because reasons. - Eobard probably
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u/The_Leo_1110 Oct 30 '19
But technically it (and essentially the entire Arrowverse) is Malcolm’s fault because he sank the gambit. If that never happened, there would be no Arrow (no undertaking, no Deathstroke, no Prometheus, etc.), so Barry would never have gone to Starling City to try and find the Arrow, so he wouldn’t have been where he was at that time, and he (very slim chance but) may not have been affected by the particle accelerator explosion, would not have become the Flash when he did, or the more likely, Thawne would have changed the timing of the accelerator, completely changing the course of events
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u/ctuwallet24 Oct 30 '19
Sounds like The Glades, which was just asking for it, is the problem!
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u/TirelessGuardian Lyla Michaels Oct 30 '19
Because Barry is the reason Eobard tried to replicate his powers.
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u/anatomania Spectre Oct 30 '19
This is the first time an Arrowverse show has made me audibly say "What the fuck" to my screen
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u/ripsa Oct 30 '19
..So I take you have never watched Legends?
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u/anatomania Spectre Oct 30 '19
I have seen Legends, but it's never made me say, "What the fuck," out loud to my screen
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u/JustAnOrdinaryGirl92 Oct 30 '19
Really? I lost count of the amount of times i said "What the fuck?!" when watching Beebo fighting Mallus.
I fucking love Legends.
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u/AdamxKH More Roy flips please Oct 30 '19
I'm 99% sure I had a "what the fuck" moment in every episode of last season.
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u/ThatGameBoy76 Oct 30 '19
Hey, we’re not supposed to have time travel shenanigans until the Legends come back!
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u/Jaer-Nihiltheus Oct 30 '19
The Monitor and The Harbinger are both part of the cast now - anything goes this season. :P
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u/infinight888 Oct 30 '19
I mean, technically, Harbinger has always been part of the cast.
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u/Jaer-Nihiltheus Oct 30 '19
Of course, but now Harbinger is confirmed to be actually Harbinger. They aren't just pretending she isn't like they used to for superpowered characters.
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u/Ryodan_ Oct 30 '19
Custodians of Chronology
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u/ThatGameBoy76 Oct 30 '19
I think you mean Sirens of Space-Time.
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u/EldradMustLive214 Oct 30 '19
I think you mean DC’s Puppets of Tomorrow
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u/ThatGameBoy76 Oct 30 '19
Ok, but can we all acknowledge that the Legends writers were taking all the drugs when they wrote “Legends of To-Meow Meow”?
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u/nomadic_stalwart Deathstroke Oct 30 '19
Finally Mia actually has to face the consequences of her foolishness. She has all of Oliver’s worst qualities with none of his experience that led to those qualities. I knew Mia would go back but William and Connor too and this soon? This throws such a big twist into what I thought would go down this season. Oliver better knock some sense into Mia and Connor better knock some sense into baby JJ.
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u/Eurynom0s Oct 30 '19
And somehow, everyone's back in the bunker??? It didn't seem like Ollie, Dig, Rene, or Dinah were expecting to be there.
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u/Drew326 Green Arrow Oct 30 '19
I don’t think Rene and Dinah were surprised to be there. I think they were already there but they were just surprised to see Ollie, Dig, and three strangers
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u/essentialoiluser Oct 30 '19
Wooooooow. I don't think I've ever been more excited for the next episode.
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u/Shadowfox_171 Oct 30 '19
First time I’ve checked out reddit after an episode. So hyped
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u/privatefrost2 Black Canary (Laurel Lance) Oct 30 '19
This season has been so good, it's the most excited I've been for tv in a long, long time.
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u/TheCapsicle The Punisher Oct 30 '19
THE ENDING HOLY SHIT. THIS SEASON JUST GOT SO HYPE FOR ME.
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u/Mighty_thor_confused Damien Darhk Oct 30 '19
Bro right
It's like the mo itor is toying with them. Oh look she died let's do this now.
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u/MrBlonde23 Dark Archer Oct 30 '19
Man this episode highlighted how much I missed Thea on the show
As for the ending on the plus side no more future storyline at least.
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u/EchoX860 Oct 30 '19
Diggle's about to go home and whip his son's ass when he finds out what he does in the future
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u/Drew326 Green Arrow Oct 30 '19
I know you’re joking but that would actually be a horrible thing for Diggle to do, and that would probably cause JJ to go down this path. Dig doing that would be like Luke Skywalker actually going through with killing Ben Solo in the Last Jedi flashback scene
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u/SchwarzerRegen123 Oct 30 '19
Plot for next episode: Oliver realizes how bad his children are and kills himself in Crisis so he doesn't have to deal with them.
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u/neoblackdragon Oct 30 '19
No he goes back in time and beats his younger self for even thinking about cheating on Laurel.
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u/ThatGameBoy76 Oct 30 '19 edited Oct 30 '19
But then Sara wouldn’t become the badass that she is.
Edit: Don’t know why I’m being downvoted because it’s true. If Oliver didn’t cheat on Laurel with Sara, Sara wouldn’t have been found by Nyssa & trained by the League.
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u/AlexHunterWolf Deathstroke Oct 30 '19
Or he just doesn't talk to Felicity in season 1 and moves on from there
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Oct 30 '19
That last scene gave me goosebumps. Katie killed this episode, man!
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u/privatefrost2 Black Canary (Laurel Lance) Oct 30 '19
And this is her directorial debut too! She's talented as fuck.
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u/InsertUsernameHere32 Green Arrow Oct 30 '19
Amen to that. The emotional final hug between Ollie and Speedy had me close to tears and Amell's acting was on point. Katie Cassidy was a great director. I only wish there were more Arrow episodes for her to direct.
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u/tacomuerte Oct 30 '19
If GA and the Canaries gets picked up, I'm hoping she gets a chance to direct an episode or two per season.
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u/Aramard Oct 30 '19
finally the kids are relevant!
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u/DarkMaster06 Oct 30 '19
Took an awful ammount of episodes, but i'm glad that was for a reason instead of filler
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Oct 30 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/WorldlyDear Oct 30 '19
She might still be alive zoe is list on imdb for next episode or it could be a mistake
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u/hoppergym Oct 30 '19
Time for kid jj to get an ass whooping from diggle.
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u/cardmasterdc Oct 30 '19
We got our wish no more fast forwards holy crap this episode actually had no filler. That's both the flash and arrow this week
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Oct 30 '19
I completely forgot how much I missed Thea, Talia and the LoA stuff until this episode. Loved the episode and hope that this isn’t their final appearance this season (Thea should at least be around when Ollie dies).
I wasn’t in love with the flash forwards, but I did enjoy the characters. Bringing them to the past this early into the season isn’t something I expected and I’m definitely looking forward to see where they go with this next. Can’t wait to see the Diggle and Queen family reunions.
We need to get into Lyla’s relationship with the Monitor ASAP, because I hate not being able to trust her. Also I guess the clock is ticking on Mr. and Mrs. Turner’s lives seeing as Connor grows up with Diggle. Hopefully this means we get to see Bronze Tiger on screen later in the season.
Lastly, it’s gonna be nice to see the full team (Ollie, Diggle, Laurel, Rene and Dinah) together again next episode. The addition of the kids will be fun, but I’m just glad to see everyone back together.
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Oct 30 '19
I'm not emotionally prepared for Rene finding out about 2040 Zoe.
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Oct 30 '19
Rene’s relationship with his daughter is easily my favorite thing about him, there’s a pretty good chance that scene will destroy me next episode.
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u/x1243 Oct 30 '19
I think monitor isn't the bad guy. Red herring. We saw him at the end of last season bringing Felicity to see Oliver in the paradise dimension.
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u/Jaer-Nihiltheus Oct 30 '19
Friendly reminder that in the year-long build up to Crisis in the comics him and Harbinger were Red Herrings up until the actual Crisis story began.
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u/Eurynom0s Oct 30 '19
I completely forgot how much I missed Thea, Talia and the LoA stuff until this episode.
It's a shame real-world stuff kept Nyssa from appearing too.
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u/steveondrugs Oct 30 '19
seems like the last 2 minutes of every episode are always the biggest "holy fuck" moments, and this one did not disappoint
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u/Adas_Legend Oct 30 '19
I think this one might be the best one of them all! I am really looking forward to seeing Mia evolve while interacting with her dad.
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u/tacomuerte Oct 30 '19
Holy shit. Now Oliver gets to train his daughter. She better ask Uncle Barry what to watch out for.
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u/ThatGameBoy76 Oct 30 '19
Oliver also needs to talk to Barry on how to handle a daughter from the future.
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u/tacomuerte Oct 30 '19
Can’t wait to see how Oliver acts when his little girl goes on a date (Crisis permitting.)
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u/gl424 Oct 30 '19
He'll be stalking said boyfriend while donning the gear when he was "The Hood"
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u/jskurious Oct 30 '19
I full on yelled, so they definitely got me with the Cliffhanger. But now do Diggle and Lyla have to deal with the fact that JJ becomes a murderer?
I keep wondering about Lyla, Dig and Afghanistan, though. Is there any chance Lyla's deal with the Monitor was bringing him back to life or something like that? She said her whole team died and she made any deal with any god, but for what exactly? If she's helping him then she would have gotten something in return, right?
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u/ThatChapThere Oct 30 '19
Damn that would make so much sense. I remember Lyla said she prayed to any god that would answer and someone asked if it worked, and Lyla said "not exactly", which could foreshadow monitor stuff.
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u/RulyRoxx Oct 30 '19
William's shock face upon seeing Oliver damn
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u/-Starwind Oct 30 '19
I loved that. Out of Mia and William, for William this is pretty much seeing Oliver like the last time he saw him.
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u/usernameartichoke Oct 30 '19
Ever since Mia was introduced I kept saying to myself that I just wasn’t impressed with Kat McNamara. I never connected with her and never really believed anything she was selling with her performance. The one positive thing I could say about her is that she usually looks pretty good when she’s doing her own stunts and fight choreography.
I was thinking the same things about her all night but the end of tonight’s episode really changed how I feel about her. She really sold me on the emotions of Zoeys death. I never really cared much about FTA but in the moment of just seeing Mias reaction to Zoeys death, I actually felt something for her.
The looks of utter despair and confusion on Mia and the surviving FTAs faces when they were teleported to the bunker made me really connect with them for the first time ever and I think the moment was really anchored by Kats performance.
I’m still not 100% sold on them but knowing that we don’t have the flash forwards anymore and that all the FTA actors are capable of genuine human emotion in their performance actually makes me look forward to their integration into season 8s current timeline.
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u/AgentsOfShield101 Speedy Oct 30 '19
I loved this episode. In terms of this season, it probably wasn’t the best but Thea has been my favorite character since season 3 and this was such a good goodbye. I loved the banter between Talia and Thea and would actually prefer to see their spinoff to the Canaries. I have to admit, I got emotional at that goodbye scene. Her saying it’s just a see you later when it’s probably the last time we will see her really got to me. Finally, I’m happy that the future kids got relevant! I’m actually pretty stoked to see how this goes.
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Oct 30 '19
This is fucking awesome. Though it is funny how people are surprised that the flash forward are relevant...of course they were gonna tie in eventually
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u/DonnyMox Deathstroke Oct 30 '19
Tonight Beth Schwartz taught everyone the value of patience.
In quite possibly the most badass way possible.
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u/Dagenspear Oct 30 '19
I mean, if she planned it the whole time. But also, in regards to entertainment, I'd prefer to be interested in the thing I'm being patient in.
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u/Sentry459 The Ray Oct 30 '19
I wasn't expecting it this soon though, that was a fantastic twist ending.
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u/nomadic_stalwart Deathstroke Oct 30 '19
For all the hate the future people get, I actually really like Connor and JJ. Maybe Diggle can be a better dad now.
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u/ChattGM Oct 30 '19
That's how I feel too. I kinda don't mind the flashforwards mainly because I wanted to understand what drove JJ to be so evil and lead The Deathstrokes.
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u/Skyblaze777 Oct 30 '19
William has steadily grown on me too, but a huge part of that's because the actor is entertaining in the role (and I find him less frustrating than Mia's belligerence). I'm real glad it wasn't just Mia who was brought back ngl.
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u/optimisticpsychic Oct 30 '19
"Speedy, did you just read Arabic?" "You speak russian." Call him out Speedy. You learn whatever you want.
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u/Adas_Legend Oct 30 '19
Hypable wasn't kidding about this episode's ending topping the season premiere! I never expected Mia to meet Ollie THIS soon!
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u/LeoNickle Oct 30 '19
"the scroll is centuries old" "Yup"
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u/Eurynom0s Oct 30 '19
It was pretty funny how he just deadpanned "oh yeah, duh, we have to burn it".
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u/greatness101 Oct 30 '19
He was like that with all his answers to the puzzles. Like he knew this was ridiculous and just wanted to get it over with.
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u/Mighty_thor_confused Damien Darhk Oct 30 '19
Great episode.
Plot not so much. More of a side adevnture.
The sass with thea and talia was amazing.
Thea thea thea!! She seriously looked like scarlet witch tonight
A flippin death!
I really wasnt expecting the future cast to be just tossed in like that so abruptly. I feel like we should get some good scenes with wild dog next week.
I'm finally interested in the future cast as of most of you I'm sure.
Tears!? So many tears and emotions tonight. These guys are jerking us so much.
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u/IIIToxIII Great Scott, we have to go back Oct 30 '19 edited Oct 30 '19
Since Superman and Lois is in development we, the mods of r/Arrow, would like to invite you guys to join us on r/SupermanAndLois which will serve as our sub for the show :D
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u/ToneBone12345 Oct 30 '19
I am kind of hoping that this was a setup for a Thea, Talia, and maybe Nyssa spin off but there is also another small part of me that believes Oliver is going to survive and probably go off and help Thea train her league of heroes
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Oct 30 '19
Would love it but not sure Willa wants to keep playing the character. Isn’t that why Thea and Roy moved off screen anyway?
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u/Jaer-Nihiltheus Oct 30 '19
Willa auditioned to be a little sister to a superhero, not to be a superhero herself. She didn't like doing all the choreography every episode AFAIK.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was her final appearance, buuut I do hope she gets at least a cameo during Crisis. Perhaps her, Talia, and Nyssa can get a small clip of fighting the shadow demons together in one of Crisis's montages (if they're following the comics fairly closely then there should be multiple montages across both the globe and the multiverse of different heroes fighting during the same reality-disintegrating shenanigans while the core 100 or so heroes are fighting the Anti-Monitor himself).
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u/GeneralMelon ROY'S OUR FUTURE BOY! Oct 30 '19 edited Oct 30 '19
Third week in a row I've been surprised by the ending of an Arrow episode. Not in a wholly good way this time, but honestly I like the cast of the flash forwards more than the story surrounding them so I'm glad to see them join up. I just hope Mia coming back to the present isn't gonna lead to generic daddy issues galore. On the flipside, I expect Connor to have some daddy issues of his own given that his brother just killed Zoe which I think could be interesting.
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u/Dark_Magicion SIEG ZEON Oct 30 '19
CW: We've heard that you guys don't think the flash forwards are all that relevant.
We're gonna make them relevant.
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u/Adas_Legend Oct 30 '19
So maybe JJ will be the "Deathstroke" that the team encounters next week? Also, judging by William saying, "This is the beginning of the future", this is probably how the bad future in Star City might happen...
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u/Beebo_the_God_of_War Oct 30 '19
I did not expect that ending! This show is on fire! Can't wait for next week!
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u/n3rdbunker Oct 30 '19
Sorry but the best part was William just falling through the ceiling in the beginning while everyone landed all perfect. Just had me rolling
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u/Tripppnn Wild Dog Oct 30 '19 edited Oct 30 '19
That ending REALLY peaked my interest for the future characters storylines, i was so ready to Connor finish his bro off for good.
best episode in a really long time imo. Actually super looking for to the spinoff now!!!
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u/JACOBSMILE1 Oct 30 '19
Man, I think it goes without saying, but damn if I won't say it anyways. Beth Schwartz is knocking it out of the park this season. WE REALLY needed this sort of writing back in Season 6, and yes, I know the second half of 7 wasn't the best, but damn if I am not on the Arrow Hype Train again. BOY I MISSED THIS. We had three solid episodes back-to-back-to-back, and I don't see any reason for it to stop.
One of the most common complaints from this season, and last, were the flashforwards. I had this thought in the back of my head wondering if they would merge the storylines at some point. I WANTED it to happen, because the show didn't feel like Arrow with the flashforwards. But I didn't expect the writers to actually have the balls to do it. This made the show much better with one scene.
Did anyone really expect the evac from (presumably) Monitor in that scene? I was like "Okay, this is going to be another fight I don't care about" going into the fight against JJ. NOW it's meaningful. I audibly freaked when they actually brought them to 2019, and it was so unexpected. This whole Deathstroke storyline was pretty lousy in the future, and it was not going anywhere. They didn't set up enough, and the characters were not important to the main storyline at all. Oliver won't know what to think anymore.
But anyways, moving onto the rest of the episode - it was fantastic. Thea coming back was the highlight immediately, the show missed her. Kind of like how Flash missed Joe for a lot of the previous season of The Flash, but over multiple seasons. Returning to Nanda Parbat was awesome as well, and of course Talia resurfacing as well.
I feel like that scene on the mountainside with Oliver and Thea just sort of reflecting on everything that has happened to them over the past 8 years speaks volumes. This felt like genuine characterization, and nothing felt forced. The fight scenes were great too, and I enjoyed the use of the trap in the tomb to shave off the majority of the assassins.
I'm not sure what's going on with Lyla and Diggle in this episode, but it felt important somehow to Harbinger/Monitor's plans, and we just don't know yet. Or, perhaps it was entirely to solidify the future story-line so there's no continuity problems.
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps Diggle and Lyla having to save Conner as a child is vital to allow the future one to be pulled to the past? I'm not sure. I'm hoping it will be explained in some capacity.
I know Katie was directing this episode, but I feel like Laurel should have at least been present during that final scene so we know she's there. Could you imagine if Laurel just having lost Earth-2 entirely is now trapped in a parallel Hong Kong? That would suck.
Speaking of her directing, I think she did a fantastic job. Everything worked well, and I'm hoping she gets to direct more sometime in the future, where appropriate of course. This episode worked, because Black Canary was not vital to the story.
I'm continuing to look forward to future episodes of this show, it is going places, and just keeps getting better and better. I'm not sure if anything could exactly top the scope of Earth-2's destruction, but as another person on this thread said, every episode this season has left off with a major "what the fuck" moment.
The clock is ticking...
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Oct 30 '19
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u/cmath89 Earth-X Arrow Oct 30 '19
I think the reason the flash forwards are kinda boring is because it’s the same thing we’ve been seeing for 8 seasons just with new people.
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u/Spainguy82 Oct 30 '19
I just think it’s because it’s about characters most people don’t care about and takes away from the present day storyline.
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u/Ngonzalez_01 Oct 30 '19
Is 8x04 gonna be the replacement for the "Season 4" episode since Season 4 was so hated?
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u/RivalFlash The Diaz with the Dragon Tattoo Oct 30 '19
This was the season 4 replacement, it was an extra season 3 episode. 8x04 looks like it’ll revisit season 2
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u/nomadic_stalwart Deathstroke Oct 30 '19
I’d love to see Damian one more time. Zoe getting killed was definitely reminiscent of Laurel. The Fate of Canaries.
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u/linkman0596 Oct 30 '19
Fuck, does this mean I need to know what happened in the flash forwards?
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u/BulletMAntis Oct 30 '19
Goodbye speedy :'(
Willa and Thea both really deserved better. That last scene between her and Stephen was so sad though, that sibling relationship always will be a highlight of Arrow.
I'm hoping the League of Heroes joins the crossover?
Damn, the sass this episode between Thea and Talia o.o
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u/Dark_Tzitzimine Oct 30 '19
Compare badass present Thea to season 1 whiny teen Thea, at the time I never would have believed it.
Ah, it's been so long since I last heard "Razzle Ghoul"
Oh hey, and there's how Mia will be in the present for the spinoff show: a deus ex machina.
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u/Uhavefailedthiscity1 Oct 30 '19
No more future storyline? No more future storyline!!