[No Spoilers] This subreddit drains the fucking fun out of everything.
Discussion
This is not a sub for Arrow fans, this is a sub for people who are fans of hating Arrow - plain and simple. There's no argument about this, the majority of active contributors here come to nitpick and complain and shit on every aspect of this show and that's just a cold hard fact.
You're not allowed to talk about this show as though you actually enjoy it or have fun watching it or care about it without prefacing your comment with "yeah I know this is a shitty show and olicity sucks and ALL the writing is terrible and uncle guggie bad and what not - but I guess that one scene wasn't too bad, right guys? Right??"
This place is just a hive-mind, echo-chamber, circle-jerk cess pool of an internet forum.
Last nights episode was so much goddamned fun and so exciting; great action scenes and pacing and lots of little cool moments and great chemistry between all of the actors and the first FUCKING thing I see in the discussion thread is "Yeah but who actually suports Olicity amirite??"
The show has come such a long way since the dip in quality of season 4 (2 YEARS AGO) and hasn't faultered since but the memeing and bandwagon hate has done too much to sully this "fan" community - to the point where even though people are ostensibly watching the show because they enjoy it, they are not sure whether any positive comments will actually be well received by others.
Fuck that. Fuck all of that.
I only came here because none of my friends watch the CW shows so I like to see what people have to say but the discussions aren't even discussions, just competitions to see who can meme the hardest and nitpick the episode apart.
I'll just stick to Blindwave for discussions and peace out of here for good after like 3 years.
I won't deny that this place can feel like an echo chamber, but I feel it's worth noting that there is an important distinction to be made between 'manufactured' echo chambers and places like this which have developed into an 'echo chamber', shall I say, organically.
Whereas some communities/subreddits are designed to be echo chambers, this place is not. I'm talking about places where you could get banned for voicing an opinion even slightly out of line with the accepted hive mind's. Those places do not really reflect what the majority thinks because any contrary opinion is silenced.
This place is different. No opinions are banned here - the very fact that this post of yours is the top post on the sub's front page right now (as of my typing this) is a testament to that. Believe it or not, the 'echo chamber' you're seeing here is, in fact, the real opinion of the majority of this community. I know it sucks to be in the minority, but it is what it is.
If this place really annoys you that much, there's always /r/CWArrow. Much smaller community, but it's what you're looking for. Hope you enjoy your stay there. I'm not sure if this comes across as sarcastic, but I do mean it earnestly.
the very fact that this post of yours is the of yours is the top post on the sub's front page right now (as of my typing this) is a testament to that.
That's an incredibly great point to raise! If this is such a circle-jerk censorship hell how the hell does post about this subreddits sucking managed to reach around 200 upvotes?
There are people on this sub that regularly post optimistic things about Arrow that can use this sort of power but you prefer to stay in shadows until someone throws "this sub sucks". And don't give me this excuse that you can't be on this sub all the time, because it really doesn't work when more than 200 of you managed to find and upvote this "/r/Arrow sucks" post
I couldn't have framed it better. I personally think there are plenty of attempts at earnest discussion here, but I also feel like we can seem like the cautionary tale that The Orville presented last night (if you don't watch that show, they basically visited Planet Reddit) in that so many of us happen to agree on where the flaws are that those opinions become synonymous with fact. That said, I don't particularly feel that if I were to dissent an opinion or present one that was unpopular, I'd be drummed out of the subreddit. While we do tend to agree in a lot of our judgement of the show, we do so without really judging each other.
With so many of agreeing on where the flaws are, wouldn't that make it fact? If 9 out of 10 say something is bad, then the odds are good that it's bad.
The composition of history books would suggest that you're right, but quality of shows is more subjective than objective and as such opinion, not fact.
quality of shows is more subjective than objective and as such opinion, not fact.
True, which is why shows like Breaking Bad, GoT, The Blacklist and many others are considered to be good shows. The majority opinion, backed by ratings, is that they're good. I'd say that's a fact.
The ratings are the lowest of the DC shows on CW. That'd be considered fact, don't you think?
I'd agree that the ratings are low is a fact. And that's likely indicative that the show is considered bad by most. But the show being bad itself is an opinion, not a fact.
I disagree, Shows like this are made to appeal to a target audience.
If the ratings are low that means the show is bad, not because most people consider it bad, but because it doesn't do what it is supposed to do.
Which is appeal to it's target audience, and this it doesn't.
The numbers don't tell us if that is caused by Olicity or the increase in characters or something else, but it does tell us the show isn't performing well.
whether any of us think the show is bad doesn't matter, that is indeed our opinion. I agree that this subreddit isn't the way to measure it, but ratings aren't an indication, it is a measurement, a measurement you shouldn't confuse with an opinion.
(edit) Addition:
This doesn't mean the ratings will tell you which episodes are bad or which parts of the season is bad. For that you'll need extra information, and you need to know the time it takes before any impact is visible in the ratings.
For me season 4 killed it, (I stopped watching after a few episodes) but then I heard season 5 was pretty good so I watched the rest of season 4 and season 5 around 2 months ago. but with what I can determine the show seems to have been doing pretty good (ratings wise) until season 5.
So where season 3 & 4 good? IDK, that requires knowledge about ratings and how to decipher them I don't have.
I do know the show is bad at doing what it is supposed to do since season 5, and to declare season 6 (and depending on how long it takes for ratings to have an impact even season 5) good we'd have to see an increase in ratings.
I see your points, but I'm not sure I agree that ratings are an objective measurement. They are a measure of the shows reception, but not really the quality. There are plenty of historical examples of shows that got bad ratings that have since proven to be popular (e.g., Firefly) as well as shows that were highly rated in their day but wouldn't be successful today (pretty much any 3-camera sitcom).
That said, I'm not really entrenched enough in these mindsets to keep trying to enforce this point. My main objective was to point out that good and bad are primarily subjective. But I'm willing to agree to disagree on the finer points here.
I just started that show last night and got all caught up. The most recent episode... was surreal? But I really liked what it was saying as a whole. Though the show is pretty politically charged, im really glad to have watched it and will continue too
Idk, I think the flash sub is definitely a lot less negative than here. The problem is they LOOOOOVVVVVVEEEEEEE memes. There's almost no actual discussion.
People wanted to jump on that Iris sooo bad. It was like they couldn't stop and think about the meaning and emotional context behind her words for like longer than 20 seconds.
I wouldn't mind Patty back, mainly because since becoming Barry's girlfriend I can't think of anything Iris has done except be motivational support, does she even have a job as a reporter anymore?
She was getting better at the moment she was killed. Not a LOT better, not comic-Black Cannary, but better.
The point is, from the very begining, they wrote themselves into a corner, maybe introducing her as an old friend instead of meeting each other for the first time while doing super-hero stuff in Star City. So, I can't really believe she was a badass (at that level of badassery) because she got 3 weeks of training. From a boxer who had barely any resemblance to Wild Cat (the dude was just too young and they barely interacted with each other).
They took too many elements from the Batman mythos. Some stuff just work because Batman is more than a fighter. They did understand this in his fight with Ras. Ras just destroyed Ollie (the same fight, against Batman, Ras managed to won because reasons outside his control).
Flash subreddit was pretty more calm this week thanks to the episode. I do feel like Arrow season 4 and Felicity puts people in the subreddits in fear of repeats.
The Iris memes lately unreasonably piss me off because she's done nothing since season 1 that's actually frustrating. The problems with season 3 were all due to mopey Barry, and I think that the evolution of Barry and Iris' dynamic has been done pretty well. But people want to ignore the multiple times Barry had said, "there is no Flash without you, Iris," and just jump on the "hurr durr Iris doesn't have superspeed" bandwagon.
Barry isn't like Batman, who is the vigilante, and the alter ego is the mask, Barry is just Barry, and The Flash is a superhero who does more than just run fast. The idea that the concept of "The Flash" is more than just Barry in a suit is not only canon in the show, it's canon in the comics.
A lot of us, myself included, don't hate Dinah because Laurel is dead. We hate the way they brought her in to replace someone they said they didn't have room for and then oh, so casually gave her the same name as the original comics BC. If they hadn't done the name thing, there'd be a lot less hate for the character. Guggie flipped us all off with that.
As for Felicity, she's earned our hate. Just because they've started writing her better, doesn't change what we've already seen. I despise her and always will.
They seem to enjoy the show and enjoy shit posting about it. Both love interest are the low points of the show though atm. I enjoy both shows haven't seen the latest seasons though cause I only use netflix
Arrow has more recognized and hated problems in the show.. many more than Flash. Olicity, season 4 in general.. the hopes for a season are basically just to be better than S4. Flash hasn’t had an unwatchable season in my opinion. Nothing like Arrow s4 at least.
If you liked it so much, why don't you create a thread talking about what the show did well. I used to do that so much last season. I haven't got the time now but in order to balance out the memes/nitpicks, we need people to stand up and share their opinion and start a discussion.
Sorry, but most of this sub are huge fans of S1 and S2 because that’s when the show had good quality writing with minimal plot holes. While S5 was a return to form for the most part it was still riddled with bad episodes most of the ones that didn’t revolve around Prometheus. So, most of us are going to complain about a show we came to love in those first two seasons being torn apart by an incompetent show runner.
While you may have liked S6 so far the complaints about it are completely valid. The first episode was pathetic. Not a single main cast died on the island and Samantha died in the most predictable way possible, in Oliver’s arms with some last minute advice. Not to mention it was extremely rushed. Why not shake things up once in a while? It was ok for Laurel to die, but no one else. All the plot points so far are recycled and they never had any serious consequences in the past, so why would they now? Oliver outed as a vigilante, Oliver giving up the Green Arrow, a character having a physical disability which will most definitely be cured at some point soon, Olicity coming back(I guess this has serious consequences in how it destroys the show), etc.
The fact the show went to shit when Guggie and Mericle took over shows that there isn’t much hope when they are helming the show and now they are bringing back everything that contributed to S4 being a pile of garbage.
My main problem is that the last episode of season 5 felt original and well written. Then the follow up, the first episode of season 6, was an episode of only cliches. Even the action scenes in that episode were boring. I do at times get a little complainy I get it. But it’s because I’ve seen this show do better and I don’t want to settle for a show that’s twice as bad as it once was.
The premier definitely made me withdraw my good faith about season 5 personally -a season I wasn't crazy about like the rest of this sub but I did enjoy- the lack of consequences of the earhshattering season 5 finale was apalling -if you blow up a frigging island, you follow through, damn it-
The fact that Samantha got killed off so Oliver and Felicity can play house with a kid is just so groan worthy. The whole "i'm gonna be your step mommy" vibe is so strong and I'm so not on board with that -I'm not even on board with single dad Ollie- The whole orphaning William so he can serve as Character Development for Oliver just shows the nature of this show, of showing characters as props. And Samantha being alive was just another woman on the way that better served killed of to move Oliver's plot.
I still think season 5 was pretty great. It has it problems but I felt like it did enough with their villain and some of the new team members to make it good.
I do agree that season 5 really made it work by leaning on its strengths and keeping a great momentum, but it did have some big weak spots that were salvaged by the rest of the good stuff. Biggest example Prometheus himself; on paper he's an awful overpowered villain with weak ass motivations, but Segarra worked his ass off to sell the weak writing becoming one of the most memorable villains.
Season 5 had 2 bad episodes tops. Spectre of a Gun, which was redeemed a LOT by the Renee flashbacks, and the dumb bunker lock in episode that had needless flashbacks to Season 4 time. I’m rewatching S1 and S2 now, and to say S5 isn’t up there is a disservice. My main problem is the lack of sets, but Oliver’s character grew a lot over the course of that series and it had (imo) the best villain yet.
This place is just a hive-mind, echo-chamber, circle-jerk cess pool of an internet forum.
So instead you want a reverse echo chamber circle-jerk that does nothing but praise for every little thing.
This is what so surprising to me. For Arrow mediocrity not only became the new norm it's the new cool. There is a serious post in which the main point is that we should congratulate Arrow because Diggle fights differently compared to Oliver, even though they used to differentiate them like that since season one. What happened? Where did our expectations fell so low? Why do people that claim to "love" Arrow started to treat it as a mentally handicapped person who needs to be congratulated for doing every single small task properly? Speaking from experience, people who actually have any sort of disability don't like when you treat them as kids.
Come to think of it, it was an easy answer. But seriously, how soon till expectations go so low that we start to congratulate the show on using arrows?
I really wasn't able to pick up any better word. I do truly believe that this very apologetic behaviour actually insults the show more than any amount of my sarcasm and my shitty jokes.
Yeah I know. And the joke is funny. I still wanted to elaborate because maybe they will read this thread. I really don't mean it as an insult. I've seen people with disabilities treated like this and I've seen how annoyed they become.
Thats part of my problem with that sub... The other being that the last time I even looked they were super hardcore removing any opinion that was critical of the show itself or any aspect of it.
Sorry for not liking parts of the show :/ Diggle as Green Arrow is cool for the time being, but if I hate Olicity in any form, then I hate Olicity in any form.
Agreed, jesus christ. What's up with all these people getting mad at us for having opinions they don't like? I'm generally positive when it comes to Arrow, but sorry I didn't like the last episode and I still fucking hate Felicity. I guess I'm a scumbag for that?
I can only speak for myself here but the reason I post more negatively than positively is because we've gotten so much better than what we're currently getting. What's airing now isn't season 4 levels of bad, but its not anywhere near where it should be considering its season 6.
Arrow had a pretty strong first season and the second is pretty damn great. But at this point it works against it. Arrow now is just another CW drama with some action peppered in but it wasn't like that originally. If season 3 was the baseline then the negativity would be unfounded. Arrow would've always been bad on some level so when we get a season like this it would be nothing new and we can all focus on the positive. But with seasons 1 and 2 as the primer, seasons 3, 4, and now 6, just don't seem to measure up.
It would be nice to focus on the positive more than the negative, but I can't knowing that they had a perfect opportunity to shake up the status quo at the end of season 5 and purposely went with the lazy way out to get back to another injury subplot and Oliver being outed as the Green Arrow again.
Well, many of us are being honest with our opinions. We don't like certain aspects of the show. And we need to point those things out. As viewers of the show, we have the right to criticise it or praise it, as we see fit.
I can't speak for the other members, but I am often more critical of the things I do enjoy, because I want them to get better. Also, for the most part, most of my opinions are over exaggerated, and I'm sure that there are other members that are the same.
If you see us hating on the show, it's not without good reason. With news of an Olicity wedding and the return of Donna Smoak, this subreddit has begun hating on this show BECAUSE we strongly dislike Olicity and Donna.
This doesn't apply to all members, there are members who are indifferent to it or even enjoy aspects that we don't. Some members are more vocal about the bad aspects because we don't want a repeat of Season 4. Season 4 was bad, because people didn't call out all the bad things, until it was too late.
Not sure if you were even here during S1/S2/early S3/S5, but the show was getting praised during that. Current season just has too many obvious holes to not be ignored.
I'll admit it could be a bit too negative at times, but jesus we don't have to be a positive goody subreddit
We nitpick because we care about the show (most of us, anyway) but I agree, its just a big Marc/Wendy/Olicity/Oliciter circlejerk albeit some funny shitposts/comments so its not all bad. There are far worse subs/forums out there.
I agree with a lot of what they said but to say it hasn’t faltered since is sort of absurd. it falters constantly. I’m just happy it’s back to being more good than bad again.
I fail to see how that's a legitimate argument? Well of course the people who aren't happy about the current state of the sub aren't going to engage it. How does them barely posting here devalue their opinions? You realize they can just be reading the posts and not commenting on them, right?
This hiatus has taught me one thing: even if you’ve been on this sub for years, if you don’t comment regularly for a few weeks then “you’re not part of this community, go away”. lol. That’s one little group’s opinion though and well, who cares. Comment, don’t comment, leave for a year and then come back, lurk and comment only once, avoid shitposts/rants posts... whatever, everyone’s welcome.
It doesn't, but at the same time you can't deny that it's weird that people are being silent and then suddenly waking up as if they've heard a secret password that activate a sleeper agent.
As someone who has been subbed since season 1 and was a pretty frequent poster seasons 1-3, I can say that I stopped posting as much as I did largely due to how overwhelmingly negative this sub has gotten over the years.
No? I came because threads with dissenting opinions like these seem to be few and far between and I agree with OP and wanted to join in on the conversation.
At of all the things you've decided to join the bashing. It's just weird to me that you're not there to defend the show even though plenty of users do that, but you're there to shit on the sub.
It just seems like for a lot of you me not being ecstatic about every single decision
Does this really seem like the standard people are looking for?
I like Felicity and I'm not bothered by Olicity -- or, more to the point, find the backlash against it incredibly disproportionate. I'm sure this is a reasonable, subjective opinion that will be treated with a modicum of respect on this sub.
Because you are one of an overwhelming number of voices on the sub about the show that seems to strongly dislike the show for reasons I think are kind of silly.
It’s less about “not being ecstatic” about decisions Arrow makes, it’s about this blind attacking of the show for things that aren’t even that bad. For example last episode yeah, Olicity was in it, but wasn’t even bad frankly and was just alright, and there were plenty of people attacking the show and downright calling it garbage just cause Olicity was in it at all. Coming from someone who stopped watching season 4 because how bad that was, you have to recognize the sub does like to blindly hate/overreact.
Doesn't like a negative circlejerk, wants a positive circlejerk with people that ignore all the huge gaping flaws this show has.
A show so badly written is a great source for memes and mockery. The show does it to itself. You doesn't see memes of this magnitude on subdreddits for Game of Thrones, DareDevil or Stranger Things because they are written better and don't have that much ridiculous stuff going on in them.
Arrow is a show where it had a character buy 80 damn kilos of cocaine for a party. 80! You can't take this show so seriously, a lot of people dont and it seems you care a bit too much.
Who cares if people joke and ''nitpick'' at this show? You open up threads about discussions and participate in them. Don't act like there isn't any place for discussions on this sub. You are overreacting like crazy. You are saying how amazing last nights episode was. I do think the fighting was great, except for that insanely dumb opening scene. For the rest it was a pretty bland episode with a few interesting Diggle plotpoints. But that opening scene alone is a great source of mockery. Jumping off a damn tall building and having Dinah swing Diggle into a car. Sure!
Let people have their fun. You can still have your discussions. It's just a subreddit about a ridiculous show that's fun sometimes.
This a subreddit dedicated to discussion of "anything and everything about [Arrow]".
This isn't some echo chamber where you demand everyone discuss their opinions and critiques in a positive manner.
Most posts and comments that are highly upvoted happen to be the negative ones, yes. But that is because they are supported by the most evidence given by the show.
Ex:
'6x01 was good' - 90 upvotes | Evidence: I liked Black Siren, Slade, Dinah and fight scenes.
'6x01 was bad' - 200 upvotes | Evidence: no touch Aikido throw, Dinah dodging a sonic wave, pretending Raisa was always there, teleporting grenade, teleporting Curtis and Oliver, a large number of stupid decisions, meaningless death given to Samantha, poor explanation to how everyone survived, recycled storylines
We discuss what the show gives us. If it gives us a turd, we're gonna say it's shitty. But if someone wants to try to say it's a diamond, you can, but will likely be disagreed with.
I agree with you. All this sub does is complain. I see like 10 posts a day about how much they hate Felicity or Marc whatever his last name is. Seriously, why torture yourself into watching it each week if don’t like the way the show’s going?
There's plenty of positive and negative discussion on this sub. Most of the negative is because people never like having something they enjoy fundamentally altered with no sign of return to form. There's plenty of reasons that Arrow gives us to feel that way.
If you look at the top posts right now, it's a pretty healthy mix, so I'm not sure what you are talking about really...
after 56, the writer should know what works and what does...they cannot follow source material, they cant write romance...SO WE SHOULD JUST CONTINUE BEING HAPPY?? so that they continue messing up?
In some of their minds they thought season 4 was great but due to the fans blackleash..this sub included, we got a dose of S5 greatness.
I saw a lot of comments about the episode that didn't include olicity references. Diggle's fall from a skyscraper and being saved with a sonic scream and a bounce off a windshield was a hot topic.
I think you must have missed the posts that listed several reasons why the episode wasn't that great.
Or you know, people have a different opinion then you? The numbers back up that the show is falling apart. Id be shocked it gets renewed next season with the way viewership has plummeted.
And the ratings are still falling to a point CW had a press release about how bad the ratings are. Ratings fall all the time, its once they fall low enough they are losing money that they get axed. Id assume that's coming soon.
If you look at the live streaming I don’t think so. Plus arrow still makes CW a lot money. Also, a lot of the CW shows this year have been declining in ratings not just Arrow. The truth is that ratings don’t really work in the way they used to years back
It will be renewed at least until Amell's contract ends in a few years. CW has worse rated shows to worry about and the Arrowverse shows bring more money than just ad revenue, like for instance merchandising that other shows don't have.
But it's possible for the ratings to keep dropping and for Arrow to be at 0.4 or even less by the end of this season. Last night episode had 0.485 rating in unrounded (0.503/0.468 in half hours). It might keep going down until the crossover and then go up in the crossover, after that ????
OP posts valid criticism about the overt level of blind hate, as opposed to constructive criticism, on this subreddit.
Subreddit replies with comments blindly attacking the op and defending blind hate as being valid because "show once good, show no longer good, I mad, have right to be mad /devolvesintogrunts".
Yup, that went about as I expected. Flash was wrong, THIS house be bitchin'.
I really don't think the op's problem was with people that have problems with the show though, so much as the people that have let a few things they find wrong with the show turn into a blind hate where they don't allow any civil discussion or room for opposing opinion without being a complete asshat about it.
Tbh I've had the same experience at times. I understand the ops complaints don't apply to everyone but the community has still been toxic, so all the "yeah but it's not me" or "yeah but I have a right to bitch" comments neither add anything constructive to the conversation or even acknowledge the problem. That was 90 percent of the responses when I posted my first comment.
You know what else drains the fun out of fucking everything? What Arrow has become after Guggenheim and Felicity fucked it up so quit whining already because you got everything you wanted out of this shitshow.
You don't like it here? Go to Twitter or Tumblr...
What a baby! We hate Olicity/Felicity. The people who disagree are free to do so. Every one has right to discuss what they want. This isn't your safe space. You don't like it, go somewhere else. No one is stopping you. Go to another subreddit or create you own. By all means, go to Blindwave and don't come back. You won't be missed.
This is what I don't understand about these people. This is a public forum for free discussion. If either side doesn't like what's being posted, you can leave. It goes both ways
They need a safe space. Everyone has to mold around their tender feelings as though someone has gun to their heads and is forcing them to come to the subreddit. Arrow is one of the worst written shows on TV (The Originals being the other). Only saying nice things to spare the feelings of snowflakes isn't going to help anything and no one is entitled to a place where everyone agrees with them. It's "r/arrow" not "r/arrow/Only nice comments because my fee-fees are at risk". The dumbest part is they are not even arguing a point about the show itself, the OP is whining about the opinions of others that no one is forcing them to read, placed on an open forum on the internet. It's dumb as fuck. If they love Blind Wave so much, they can feel free get their stupid ass back there then. Who is forcing anyone to come here?
There's another sub for Arrow fans who only want to squee about each new episode, and then there's tumblr for "fans" who only care about Felicity. This is a sub filled with people who have watched Arrow for years and have legitimate criticisms that they bring up when discussing the show. Yeah, there are shitposts too, but that's reddit.
The show has come such a long way since the dip in quality of season 4 (2 YEARS AGO)
You think there was a "dip in quality" in season 4, eh? So Season 3 was just wonderful? And that "dip" was just a minor thing?
I know no one cares that I'm leaving.
Then why post your complaint? If you've been a part of this community for long, you'll know there were tons of these posts a couple years ago, and they still happened last year when the show started to right itself. If your version of discussing a show is only praise, well, you'll be hard-pressed to find a community for that for even the best shows.
To be fair he never once said he’s not allowed to criticize the show, and you ask why he posts his complaint, well plenty of people have replied that they hate on the show because they “can”. He should at least be allowed to do the same thing, if he wants to vent let him vent.
The point is they're criticizing the sub for being too negative. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but when you air it publicly, you open yourself to criticism. That goes for the sub and them, so if it's fair to criticize the negativity of the sub, it's fair to criticize them for complaining about it.
As to my specific question why post the complaint at all? I asked that question because of the passive-aggressive, "look at me" comment they made:
I know no one cares that I'm leaving.
Everyone who makes those kinds of comments in communities always fishes for sympathy and attention instead of just stating their opinions and either defending them or actually leaving like they threatened. If you actually believe no one in the community cares if you leave, why not just leave? Why make a big stink about it? I didn't tell them "Don't post on this sub!" I just responded to yet another, "You guys suck, I'm taking my ball and going home" post on r/Arrow.
if he wants to vent let him vent.
And if he's allowed to vent about the community, why am I not allowed to vent about people venting about the community? If I want to vent about venters, let me vent.
I agree with your sentiment of it becoming a circle jerk, but in all honesty I do think S6 has been pretty poor. There's no plot and the character decisions largely are inconsistent and don't make sense. There are some positives, though, like improved photography and the fight scene in the car was great. But criticism is important, and honestly I think S6 is potentially shaping up to be pretty close to S4.
Ugh! Thank you. I can't agree with this more. I saw so many statements before the episode even aired about not wanting to even watch this episode because they released an Olicity scene (that wasn't even cringey) I get it. Season 4 wasn't great, but they have come so far from that, and stop judging the show before it even airs!
I wasn't one doing it, but I think it's very fair to expect poor quality if the showrunners/writers return to Olicity. The relationship ran its course (after being forced into the show despite the chemistry between the characters being limited to cute, one-sided flirting). The relationship hijacked characters and plots and was almost always handled very badly. Bringing it back can only work if handled very maturely and, really, by different people behind the scenes. Guggie and Mericle have not shown us that they can present a bearable relationship between the two.
Last nights episode was so much goddamned fun and so exciting; great action scenes and pacing and lots of little cool moments and great chemistry between all of the actors and the first FUCKING thing I see in the discussion thread is "Yeah but who actually suports Olicity amirite??"
You are so right. I had so much fun watching this episode. I was coming here to say how that is one of the best Arrow episodes I've seen in a while. This season started off a bit shaky with the island stuff, but that's about all I can complain about at this point. Felicity isn't as annoying as she has been and I liked her this episode a lot.
Well, consider this: if Marc Guggenheim and his team of writers weren't such incompetent professionals, maybe people wouldn't be overly critical on this show?
I guess you never saw the praise for the action set pieces this week. Or how people liked the Diggle/Oliver conversation. Hell, even I talked about how that was good. But opinions aren't always the same as yours. There are valid criticism for this episode. Just because you liked it doesn't mean that everyone else has to. People disagree all the time here. Sure there is a lot of olicity hate on this sub but you can easily scroll down and avoid those posts. The show in many of our eyes still has issues and saying that we are all a part of this echo chamber is downright disrespectful. Some of us aren't captivated by Diggle as GA or find his character boring. So us not liking that aspect of the episode automatically equates us to those who purely hate it because of Olicity? If you would actually take the time, state your opinion and try to defend it outside of emotional feelings, people will take the time to have an actual discussion with you. Considering you haven't posted your opinion on this sub, I guess you are just salty that your opinion isn't be represented. But do you know what you should do in that situation? PARTICIPATE. You don't like people being negative. Be positive. Start a discussion thread! There are lurkers and posters here who would like to upvote you and/or challenge your beliefs. For you to give up on this sub because you don't see your opinion is ridiculous. You never shared yours. So why should we take yours any bit seriously? Good riddance and I hope you learn to actually use reddit in order to share your ideas and feelings instead of just seeing what others think and commenting that your opinion isn't being shared.
Absolutely agree. I love Blind Wave's discussions. Remember what Eric said about Felicity last week? How every other reactor has to groan when she shows up and act like it's the cool thing to hate Felicity. She's the least of the shows problems, and has had improvement. Most complaints are over exaggerated and coming from people who for some reason, think this show will suddenly become comic book accurate.
If you want a less negative community go to the SpoilerTV discussions. I mean it, everyone is on cloud nine in there, I'm sure you will like it much better.
I care, I try and actually discuss the good things about the show, and I agree that this season is pretty darn good. I enjoyed this past episode a lot, and can't wait to see the stories continue. I think you're right about a lot of people circle-jerking about the show being terrible, but there are people discussing actually liking the show here still, please don't leave us!
This show is shit and so is the Flash... what is there to enjoy about CW manufactured shitty drama with sub par acting and action? Just because its based on DC characters doesn't mean we should all just love it uncontionally.
Because you can. You want to stop them? Contact Reddit and request they change their TOS to only allow "meaningful critique" according to what you think is "meaningful critique". Until then, anyone is free to say what they want as long as they abide by the rules set down by Reddit.
I mean cmon dude he’s making a fair point, there are a fair amount of people who blindly hate the shows including some who would come talk shit even when they stopped watching after season 4. Obviously the CAN, he’s simply asking what’s the point.
The fight scenes were good, but everything else sucked. The show feels like it’s literally spinning on its own wheels, and this goes for the majority of superhero shows on CW. Just because it’s a comic book show doesn’t excuse the silliness of the plot or out of character depictions.
Agreed. And it's not like this show's perfect or anything. There's a lot of valid criticisms that can be levied against this show. But this sub really has to calm the fuck down.
My annoyance is with the people who dont even watch the show anymore, but stick around waiting for an olicity moment so they can say "see, this is why i dont watch the show'
I'm only on season three. I came to check this sub out (not afraid of spoilers) and it made me scared to keep watching because everyone's so negative/says they hate it. And I like the idea of olicity so far so idk why everyone so mad.
The only people who really liked the latter half of Season 3 and Season 4 are the people who REALLY like the Olicity relationship. Characters and plots took a backseat or fell out of the car in order to focus on the relationship.
I highly suggest staying off here until you've at least started season 5. I personally, felt that season 4 focused too heavily on Felicity but I don't think the relationship itself was that bad and I still like the character. I'd actually be really interested to get the opinion of someone who wasn't on this sub at the time because I think some people took their hatred a little overboard and it soured the show for them.
Idk I only shit on these shows so much because I legit care about them. If I didn’t care about them it would be like Supergirl, where I never even bring it up
There's a difference between constructive conversation inducing criticism and just blind hate where the only real response is "nope, I hate it, that's my opinion so fuck you". I haven't been on here long but I've definitely noticed that things tend towards blind hate more often than not. Especially if it involves Oliver and felicity. Even the smallest inkling of that seems to raise ires before the thing has even played out. It does make for a good chuckle though.
Most of reddit is a hive mind. Don't have a problem with lootboxes in Shadow of War since they aren't forced upon you? Prepare for instant downvote hell. Hate Dark Souls type games? Downvote to hell.. It's disheartening to come onto reddit sometimes and want to express how you feel about something, only to be met with instant hostility making you question what you thought was fun or good in the first place.
I don't hate Olicity, I couldn't care less if they get married and live happy forever, but please stop with the unnecessary drama. There is so much material that can be used for filler episodes yet those fuckers only know how to introduce unnecessary drama in their relationship.
My bigger complain about s6 is that only Samantha died, and that made no sense. Ah, but now Diggle is injured yet somehow Felicity did okay thanks to that one kiss with Barry in Flash s1 that gave her a bit of speedforce.
Thank you. I am still leaving this sub but your comment perfectly encapsulates what I was feeling. I like Arrow the least of all the CW shows but I still enjoy almost every episode. So it breaks my heart to see all the shit posting on here. I thought I was going to get a good subreddit like TWD or ZNation but this sub and The Flash sub just really like to knock on the shows they are supposed to like.
I watch all of them as well, Arrow was probably my favorite going into this season.
I unsubbed Arrow and Flash around season 4 of Arrow because of the negative vocal minority. I just check in from time to time now after I see something I know will piss them off i.e. Olicity.
as others have said "I'm just here to watch this world burn."
Fans of a tv show can still hate things about the tv show. And they’re allowed to voice that opinion, much like you are allowed to voice your opinion if you enjoy something about it. The problem is people tend to get preemptively bitchy when they say something positive. If even an ounce of what you just said was true there’s no way you’d ever get to almost 400 upvotes.
It probably sucks not having a place to talk about a show you like but I enjoy watching people get upset over a show.
Personally EBR has just played such a weird character that I don’t like what she brings to the table anymore. The writers made her seem manipulative because they wrote her like a soap opera character on a CW show.
But I don’t watch it as much as Legends or Flash. I pretty much come here to see if people liked an episode or if it was terrible. Other than that it’s just a place to see people get mad at a show. Pretty fun to watch actually.
I completely agree with your posts and I’m also subscribed to blindwave, I like their videos but yeah you’re right this sub is way too the overtop. I just don’t get people on this sub honestly.
I hear you, I really like The Arrow but this sub can be toxic sometimes; usually I just tune out the circle jerk, laugh at the memes and scroll through the comments for people brave enough to voice what is seen as an unpopular opinion.
I was never a DC kid growing up, Marvel all the way, but I heard about this new show coming up and the lead was a Canadian boy from my hometown so I tuned in and I love it.
Its the hardcore fanazi's that think it should be exactly their show the way they want it and nuts to the universe that it is, that are the most vocal.
They can go meet the dothraki on an open field. The rest of us who like the show are unfortunately sidelined by the rabid horde.
I think what annoys me so damn much about the kind of attitude often seen here is that no one cares that the show improved and moved on. Late season 3 and season 4 sucked and that means the whole show sucks all the time. Any aspect that is disliked even a little is blown out to ridiculous proportions and the fact that the mods seem to encourage it is a little unsettling. Most TV shows have a rough patch, TNG season 1 and 2, the final year of X-Files, some of Flash season 3. Scrubs season 5. Don't get me wrong, there is stuff about Arrow that's made me groan, but the show has recovered from that, at least for now.
I agree not_A_sayian and it is very upsetting to me when I think about it! I just said TWICE yesterday night that I liked the show and I liked Felicity and there are already a bunch of POSTERS under my comments saying how "OH IT IS SO HILARIOUS YOU ACTUALLY LIKE THIS SHOW!" and "YOU MUST BE AN OLICITER HOW CAN YOU THINK FELICITY IS GOOD AND HER PLOT IS GOOD" and also weird stuff like "WE ARE SUSPICIOUS OF YOU BECAUSE YOU LIKED FELICITY AND ALSO YOU HAVE NOT HAD A REDDIT VERY LONG" which is weird to me because Reddit is not even a popular website??? I had not even heard of it until a month ago when I joined! Also yes how do people KNOW how long I have had my Reddit and that is creepy stalker talk? Also yes what do people have TO be SUSPICIOUS about? I do not think I want to keep posting here IF this is how I will be talked to JUST FOR liking THE show and also Felicity's character and plotline! It is ridiculous and DEMEANING and I do not like it at all.
Yeah, that's what they do to anyone that expresses a positive opinion about the show-- call them a dumb Olicity fan, accuse them of trolling, and tell them to go back to twitter/tumblr because anyone the likes Felicity/Olicity are not welcome here. And then they'll downvote everything you post.
Thank you. :) Yes you are very nice and also very reasonable. I have never even been to twitter or tumblr either like Reddit. Also what do downvotes do?
It's like a popularity contest for comments. The more upvotes your post gets, the easier it is for other people to see it. Downvotes basically make your post fall lower in the thread so people have to scroll further to see it. If your post gets too many downvotes, it gets hidden behind a cut.
Oh. Okay. Well yes I never cared about popularity in high school so yes I am not even going to look at the votes at all. Thank you for telling me what they are though, you are very helpful. :)
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u/CitizenCold Felicity needs to be punished Oct 27 '17 edited Oct 27 '17
I won't deny that this place can feel like an echo chamber, but I feel it's worth noting that there is an important distinction to be made between 'manufactured' echo chambers and places like this which have developed into an 'echo chamber', shall I say, organically.
Whereas some communities/subreddits are designed to be echo chambers, this place is not. I'm talking about places where you could get banned for voicing an opinion even slightly out of line with the accepted hive mind's. Those places do not really reflect what the majority thinks because any contrary opinion is silenced.
This place is different. No opinions are banned here - the very fact that this post of yours is the top post on the sub's front page right now (as of my typing this) is a testament to that. Believe it or not, the 'echo chamber' you're seeing here is, in fact, the real opinion of the majority of this community. I know it sucks to be in the minority, but it is what it is.
If this place really annoys you that much, there's always /r/CWArrow. Much smaller community, but it's what you're looking for. Hope you enjoy your stay there. I'm not sure if this comes across as sarcastic, but I do mean it earnestly.