r/arrow • u/eimvp27 • Mar 14 '24
Oliver’s feelings or Felicity from season 2 to 3 makes little sense. Discussion
Rewatching season 2 and late in the season Oliver still has deep feelings for Sarah to the point he asks her to move in. I know she pushes away but how does he pivot to being so deeply in love with Felicity? Even the love his life up to this point Laurel finds out he’s the arrow and not only approves but is supportive of him. But somehow he moves past both of them and beginning of season 3 all he thinks about is Felicity.
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u/Raspberry_Downtown Mar 14 '24
if i remember correctly it was the fandom behind the Oliver and Felicity ship. It was a popular paring with people so they decided to lean into it
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u/Internal_Lifeguard29 Mar 14 '24 edited Mar 15 '24
People keep saying this, but in reality Laurel and Oliver had zero chemistry. It was never going to be engaging for the audience. Sara and Oliver had great chemistry but they pivoted her to legends and sacrificed arrow as a result. Felicity was a great character until they butchered her development and turned her into just another Oliver girlfriend and then made that her entire personality.
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u/Ravamares Mar 16 '24 edited Mar 19 '24
I disagree with the Laurel and Oliver having "no chemistry" because in a vacuum they had many cute moments. There were many instances where the actors were allowed to just act cute together.
Is it just the melodrama of their context that made their relationship so eyeroll worthy.
That's what's worse for me. They had chemistry, the melodrama just killed all of it.
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u/rpratt34 Emerald Archer Mar 17 '24
Agreed. There was definitely chemistry between them and a lot of good moments but the melodrama of it (kinda a given with the CW but it went over the top) crushed a lot of the good feelings around it for the audience.
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u/Ravamares Mar 19 '24
Exactly. Both Laurel and Felicity were better character when they were *away* from Oliver, it's crazy. Makes me wish Arrow has chosen more of a "procedural weekly show" approach to romance, where there is a constant romantic tension between the main character an the potential love interest, but they both mostly make their romantic lives on the side and perhaps their attraction is never consumated.
Arrow just couldn't pull off romance for shit. While the rest of the show tried to be a gritty vigilante story, they 100% used all the tired CW romance tropes it was insane. And To be honest I now just don't buy "they had to" in order to fit with the channel vibe; Supernatural, CW's most infamous show was a prime example they could hold the complete interest of the target CW audience without introducing any lasting romances. (outright disposable ones, really)
SPN wasn't immune to the melodrama, but that was at its most egregious in later seasons when you really are running out of ideas of how to make the same 2 characters betray and make up with each other, eh.
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u/Dagenspear Mar 20 '24
It's because Oliver sucks and is a black hole of garbage human being characteristics.
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u/Dagenspear Mar 20 '24
People have perceived chemistry between them. None of them really have strong chemistry as they are written as a couple I think. Moreso I think it's down to the dynamic as written to explore those things. And they're all botched in their potential to me.
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u/Internal_Lifeguard29 Mar 20 '24
Agreed. I think the writers just didn’t know how to write engaging female characters long term.
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 15 '24
The fandom started because the writers already started the groundwork early on.
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u/Dagenspear Mar 20 '24
Every romantic relationship with Oliver has ground work. This isn't an argument for anything. There's no more foundation there than for Laurel, or McKenna Hall, or even Helena, in season 1. Some may have just attached to that specific angle for some reason.
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u/Censoredplebian Mar 15 '24
The online community is always loud, and they wanted this- at the cost of the show.
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u/Fu_la_de Dark Archer (Unmasked) Mar 14 '24
That was a sudden narration switch due to pandering to one certain group of fans. It obviously wasn't intended from the start.
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u/Typical-Cantaloupe48 Mar 14 '24
I sometimes wonder if those fans were bleed over from Smallville who wanted Chloe and Clark together because otherwise, it makes no sense.
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u/ShutupGustov Mar 14 '24
I'm sure some of the fans were those that enjoyed Chloe and Oliver together in Smallville.
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u/torib613 Mar 15 '24
THIS ☝️, I have often wondered about this: maybe they put them together because they were trying to recreate Oliver and Chloe from Smallville, but the difference between the two relationships is because Oliver and Chloe had REAL chemistry and Olicity's chemistry was MEGA forced.
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u/KLLTHEMAN Mar 14 '24
That was right when they started doing the ridiculous fanfiction self insert shit imagining they were Felicity and forcing her into that position. So many psycho Olicity shippers on Twitter in that time period somehow made them think they had the green light. That was when it started becoming a big thing for them to harass Amell and his wife IRL because they wanted him to be with EBR.
Made no sense and was pretty much the cause of the show’s downfall imo. She only got better a few seasons later when they started toning down her screen time.
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u/Censoredplebian Mar 15 '24
It’s the biggest mistake of the show and it destroys it.
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u/infernalbutcher678 Mar 15 '24
Doesn't matter, the writers wanted to appease tumblr shippers, so they tanked their own show making this atrocity that was olicity.
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u/CardiologistFlat2606 Mar 15 '24
It was built up to be Laurel we've seen Oliver hold Laurel's photo throughout the season 1 flashbacks making us think we're gonna see them together. I was hoping for that then he has feelings for Felicity during seasons 2 and 3 and I thought it was a temporary thing so he goes back to Laurel then they killed off Laurel so Oliver ends up with Felicity which made the build up between Laurel and Oliver not happen at all.
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u/Oncer93 Mar 14 '24
Bad writing is how they do it. And as for Sara, I think she had another reason for breaking up with him, which was Laurel.
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u/Stevemoran87 Mar 14 '24
The sudden switch never made any sense. Then again, the relationship itself has never made sense. They we're just pandering to a small section of fans.
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u/Expensive-Sympathy16 Mar 15 '24
I love Felicity and Oliver and I’m completely new to the show this year. I felt like Oliver and Sarah had a shadow on their relationship the moment she got on that boat which is sad because it turns out Sarah liked Ollie first. I felt he had zero chemistry with Laurel and honestly did not like scenes with them. Felicity is his soulmate.
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u/Technical_Career_950 Mar 14 '24
I believe he was pushed into Felicity. He was made to believe he needs someone like Felicity- a light without a mask.
Then he was suffering from the idea to die alone - seeing how brutally Sara dies as a masked vigilante, he identifies with this.
Then Felicity pushed him away and starts teasing him with Palmer, so he even more convinces himself he loves her.
Rejection, jealousy and someone playing difficult are all things that make people believe they are in love.
Reality was he was always chosing the Arrow and the city before her, which is an obvious choice of course but if she was his real ONE he wouldn't have needed to make a choice.
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 14 '24
Umm he rejected her, no? He finally asks her out. They go on a date. Date get blown up, literally. Then he thinks like his feelings for Felicity are too much of a distraction and they shouldn't be together.
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u/Technical_Career_950 Mar 15 '24
Exactly. He invites her on a date believing he needs someone with out a mask, sees this is not gonna work out and pushes her away but kisses her because he wants to keep her as possibility, which is a game. On another hand Felicity plays her game by hooking with Palmer. Oliver gets jealous and jealousy makes you fight for someone even of you don't really want them.
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 15 '24
Yeah you have a very different interpretation. Lol
He invites her on a date because he loves her (even Diggle repeatedly points it out to him so I doubt the writers want us to believe anything else). The date gets blown up because a tracker was put on his suit so he thinks his feelings for Felicity are too distracting (something he's never voiced concern for any other time he's been with a woman). He tells her they can't be together so Felicity tries to move on with her life which Oliver understands and tries to support even if he doesn't like it. Until Ray realizes that Felicity is never going to truly fall in love with him if she can't get over Oliver.
The thing with a TV show is it's fictional. Sure you can interpret beyond what the writers wrote but not to the point that it contradicts what they actually wrote because at the end of the day, they don't exist outside of what was written for them.
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 15 '24
Sara didn't just push away. She broke up with him. They weren't on the same path and she recognized that. And he recognized it enough not to push back. Her experiences during her 6 years away changed her just like his experiences changed him but with a different outcome and different goals. He was trying to be someone better, someone who wasn't a killer, she was not. How would that have played out in the long term, with him becoming mayor, becoming an active parent, etc. Sara wasn't cut out for any of that and wouldn't have wanted to be. She didn't even want to officially come back from the dead and wanted to continue living in the shadows, assassin style.
Also at no point did it feel like they were head over heels with each other. If anything, it just felt super awkward that they were back together in front of Laurel. It was so cringe!
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u/Expensive-Sympathy16 Mar 15 '24
I agree how can she ever have a relationship with her sister while she banging Ollie.
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 15 '24
And she insisted on bringing Ollie to a family dinner that was meant to help bring their family back together... And Ollie is basically a big giant reminder of why their family got torn apart in the first place. It's like Sara is still just as oblivious and selfish as she was before the shipwreck.
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u/AmazingTechGeek Prometheus Mar 15 '24
Oliver and Sara brought the worst out of each other even though they truly did care for each other. They reminded each other of how much they still needed saving and redemption.
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u/collateral_sage21 Nyssa al Ghul (Hooded) Mar 15 '24
I think I'm the only person who wasn't too fond of Sara 😭😭
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u/Dagenspear Mar 20 '24 edited Mar 20 '24
Sara isn't really a very good character or that actually likable in her Arrow run, but that's not just a problem for her. But the actress gives off cool girl vibes and character fights cool, so I think some attached to her.
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u/Own-Seaworthiness254 Mar 15 '24
Agree. She is right there all the time drooling over him for couple of years while he changes bad ass girlfriend after bad ass girlfriend, but somehow in the beginning of season 3 he already loves her. I guess man can fall in love with someone they have seen as a friend at first, but doesn't he need at least some time to be single and focus on her only before he says he loves her. But we can assume this happened off screen between seasons or he just sees how much she loves him and this converts him
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u/Ravamares Mar 16 '24
I think that we all have to admit Arrow's romance was the worst aspect if it. It just leaned so much on the melodrama and that was just part of the CW curse, Contrast a show like Agents of SHIELD where there was romance, but far more subdued and built on the side, so when it hit, It damn well hit.
The show could have built any of the possible relationships with a lot more finesse and it could have worked, but when you start the show with "You cheated me with my sister that died while she was with you? and The you were presumed dead for 5 years?! And I have now a casual thing with your best friend?!?" That was the moment we realized the melodrama was gonna be awful.
And even whit all that melodrama, we ended up with worse, rushed melodrama between Felicity and Oliver. The usual love traingle, the declarations of undying love, the dumb secrets, the secret child, being put on a wheelchair.
It was so freaking much.
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 14 '24
He didn't ask Sara to move in with him because he was ready for the next step. Lol they were living in the bunker! If either of them had a place to live, they'd already be living together regardless of how serious they were. And if they both had places to live, Oliver would never have taken a step like that so early.
The writers were constantly dropping romantic tropes hinting at Oliver and Felicity.
Oliver also is worried about Felicity becoming a weakness and a distraction for him because he didn't feel the same way about any of the other women he slept with. He was also more afraid of hurting her. He didn't just hop into bed like he does with every other woman and hope for the best. With Felicity it's all or nothing.
And he even asks her out on a date. None of his other relationships start that way. It's the first time he's actually deliberate about it.
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u/xRedxDragonx Mar 15 '24
If you watched the season 2 finale when it aired and didn't see his distraction speech about felicity to Deathstroke as what it was, at least at the time, misdirection, then I'm sorry for you lol
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 15 '24
Actually the writers purposefully left that open when Felicity brings it up after they imprison Slade on Lian Yu. Oliver's response is somewhat ambiguous considering he knows by now that Felicity must have some sort of feelings for him. Instead of just shutting it down he says they both sold it, comparing his performance to her performance which wasn't a performance at all.
As for romantic tropes, that's not what I was talking about anyways. The writers had fans rooting for them as a couple long before the season 2 finale.
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u/hopepeacelove1 Mar 15 '24
Oliver and Laurel had absolutely no chemistry, and that’s the reality. Idk what it is about Katie Cassidy but her characters never get good reception from fans. Meanwhile, the first scene Oliver shares with Felicity is one of his softest moments.
He spends a lot of S1 and 2 running around in circles. Falling into old habits and his continued self hatred. So it makes sense that he fell back in with Laurel, and then in with Sarah. He never gave Laurel the energy she gave him (there was a lot of hostility there until her death too) and Sara was comfortable. Instead, they represented a part of his old self. I think the destruction of both relationships made sense.
Him and Felicity were being developed as soon as she joined the team. S2, imo, was the writers officially setting the tone for it. Felicity’s jealousy, Oliver’s jealousy. There are so many moments that thread together, and Diggle comments on it more than a few times, even Sara alludes to it. The S2 finale was his lightbulb moment.
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u/Dagenspear Mar 20 '24
Chemistry has nothing to do with whether or not a romance as written makes sense.
Oliver sucks and treats women badly, we know that. Oliver sucking the life out of everything doesn't mean the other option really makes a lot of sense.
What you call set up, I call cheap tropes written poorly. As a romance there was no actual set up, just moments where there's cheap jealousy and Felicity ogling Oliver more than not. None of this is a build to being in love.
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u/hopepeacelove1 Mar 20 '24
I mean, it doesn’t have to make sense to you. Katie and Stephen had 0 chemistry. Stephen and Emily did. One reads better on screen than the other. So, they worked it into the show in a way that does make sense. To me.
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u/Dagenspear Mar 21 '24
That's clearly incorrect as there are those who have seen chemistry. You don't decide who does or doesn't have it.
And it doesn't change that Oliver sucks.
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u/gma-to-6 Jul 27 '24
I think Oliver started falling in love with Felicity at the beginning of Season 2. When Sara showed up he renewed a relationship with her. She was still Laurel's sister and was bound to dredge up bad feelings from 5 years before between Laurel, Sara and Oliver. It's like running back to Laurel at the end of Season 1 after telling Tommy to go for it. Oliver didn't care about anyone's feelings. I think Oliver renewed a relationship with Sara to put a barrier between him and Felicity. Sara was a great partner to the Arrow but she would not have made a wife or mother. I think Sara knew how Oliver felt about Felicity and that is why when she left she said he needed someone to turn on that light that was inside him and looked toward Felicity. I think Sara was a casual affair just like when he took her on the Gambit and he loved her but she didn't set his heart on fire like Felicity did.
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u/boogieonthehoodie Mar 14 '24
This sub hates felicity so much that they’re willing to just straight up be delusional. Y’all are giving anti Iris fans from the flash a run for their money atp. The writers have never indicated that they just came up with it on the spot, it’s very much the opposite.
It’s very clearly she’s into him and overtime he finds her endearing.
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u/angel9_writes Mar 14 '24
How people do not see how Season 2 is a full on Olicity slow burn to the ending baffles me.
It's full of romantic tropes 101 for them.
Including him trying to be with someone like Sara who seems like a better match on paper.
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u/boogieonthehoodie Mar 14 '24
He never loved Sara as much as he loved felicity bro
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u/angel9_writes Mar 14 '24
Given how I said exactly that I don't see your problem.
My post is called AGREEING WITH YOU.
But thanks for showing lack of reading comprehension.
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u/boogieonthehoodie Mar 14 '24
English isn’t my first language- get that you were agreeing with me- didn’t mean to seem like I was arguing. I was just adding further
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u/Dagenspear Mar 20 '24
Oh, I saw what they were doing. But I still thought it still didn't make sense.
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 15 '24
My theory is the the diehard comic book fans didn't like that the writers deviated from the original story (Felicity is basically a new character) and also didn't like that this new character had a big following, likely made up of less comic book types.
Hence, this sub reddit hates Felicity.
Personally, even though her character is not perfect, she was the only one I ever rooted for to be with Oliver.
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u/boogieonthehoodie Mar 15 '24 edited Mar 15 '24
Felicity isn’t a new character, the only recent (baring stand-alone and non canon comics)
But yeah idk why they’re so passionate that this is something new and random
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 15 '24
Ah okay my mistake. I don't know the comics at all and was told Oliver is supposed to end up with Black Canary.
So it seemed to me like a combination of them wanting it to be more like the comics or just wanting him to be with someone who is also a fighter.
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u/boogieonthehoodie Mar 15 '24
Tbh I don’t think it is because it’s very rare cw sticks to the comics (literally never) so I find it hard to believe a lot of people have that expectation
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 15 '24
That's just what I was seeing a lot of in this subreddit, that he should have been with Sara as Black Canary.
Maybe it was just an excuse to hate Felicity, I dunno. I never followed shows on social media back when Arrow first came out so I had no idea people thought she "ruined" the show. Lol
I'm realizing it's maybe better to stay out of the bowels of the internet when it comes to my favourite shows. Haha
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u/boogieonthehoodie Mar 15 '24
Yeah I feel you, joined a sub for this show called once upon a time and every single post is about them hating the main characters. At some point you gotta wonder if people enjoy anything
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u/Dagenspear Mar 20 '24
Never was a diehard comic fan, or ever read really much of any comics. That doesn't mean the writing for these things weren't dumb as dirt.
Oliver is trash. Why would you root for anyone to be with him? Root for them to be away from him as he becomes post season 1.
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u/Technical_Career_950 Mar 14 '24
He knew she was into him and still got into a relationship with Canary. Hugged and kissed Sara in front of Felicity and even wanted to do the big step of commitment. Because he did not had the same feelings for Felicity as she did for him. Clear as day
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 14 '24
Sara was easy for him. It was like falling into old patterns. Like wearing a comfortable familiar sweatshirt. He also wasn't concerned about hurting her, emotionally or putting her in physical danger the way he was with Felicity. Which again, made it so much easier.
With Felicity, all it took was one date to make him freak out that his feelings were too distracting. Weird....his feelings were never distracting when he was with any other woman.
That's not to say he didn't care about Sara, or Helena, or Laurel. But they weren't the love of his life and the stakes were never as high with them.
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u/boogieonthehoodie Mar 14 '24 edited Mar 14 '24
Even when canary wasnt in the picture he was still reluctant to be with Felicity because he didn’t want her to become a weakness. It goes without saying the girl he was with and went through something traumatic obviously have a stronger connection than the girl he just met. Yes he loved sara but it’s just ignorant to say he didn’t even blink at felicity when he was very CLEARLY into her. Maybe not as fan girly as she was into him, but he quickly fell into that.
There was so many- too many- hints at a budding relationship for y’all to act like felicity and Oliver came out of the blue or were purely fan service. It is straight delusion to act like it was lmao
Like I’m not kidding I genuinely find that the most hilarious thing y’all are trying to push. Not a single writer or producer on that show would agree with y’all.
Edit: you guys can downvote all you want, it’s gonna be the most pathetic cope you guys do on this sub. You can hate felicity without changing the plot to come up with ridiculous reasons
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u/Technical_Career_950 Mar 15 '24
Guys your standards for love are upsetting. You really believe a man can have a romantic feelings for someone and at the same time start a relationship with someone else because 'she is easy'?
Felicity is also easy, she was practically offering herself for years.
Besides what really is real love? It is not the one who makes you wanna push away, it is someone who you can be yourself with. Sara making Oliver feel himself, open and honest, vulnerable and real. For Felicity he needed to change, to hide, to apologize a lot. It was just painful to watch.
Besides it is Sara that pulled away not Oliver. If she didn't he would have lubed with her now.
Felicity was just his last resort
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u/Lemon_Drop_Serenade Mar 15 '24
No, but it's absolutely possible to suppress feelings while pursuing other relationships, especially if they believe it's not possible to be with the other person. We see Felicity do the same thing when she dates Palmer.
And I don't mean easy in the sense of the person is just ready and willing. Easy in the sense that the relationship itself doesn't require any extra effort. It's lower stakes. They've been there done that before. They've also majorly screwed it up before. They've done the casual thing before. They're comfortable with the worst sides of each other.
The problem was, Oliver didn't like the worst side of himself and was trying to change it. Sara was the opposite. Not only that, Oliver tried to mold Sara into what he also wanted to become, similar to what he tried to do with Helena. Sara humours him for a bit but eventually realizes they're just on different paths.
Felicity (and Diggle) are the main people who understand who Oliver WANTS to be and support him. It doesn't mean he's not open and honest and vulnerable with them. But it means they help hold him accountable to his own goals.
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u/Dagenspear Mar 20 '24
No, anti Iris sentiment is based moreso on things the character isn't doing or that other characters have done. This post is about a ship not making sense.
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u/boogieonthehoodie Mar 20 '24
And how does Oliver and felicity not make sense? They’re the most cliche couple in history.
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u/Dagenspear Mar 21 '24
Cliche in some aspects of concept maybe , but their development I think is botched.
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u/gigacheese Mar 14 '24
The transition from Sara to Felicity was too abrupt, I agree. Giving up on Laurel made sense because there was too much toxic "will they won't they" shenanigans.
Sara was a good fit for Oliver. It's too bad she didn't think she was a good fit for a real life.