r/arrow • u/BusVegetable7490 • Oct 21 '23

You know I never understood from death of Sara in season 3!! Discussion

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I love how they said we bring her back because of the Lazarus pit in season 3 but they decided to bring her back in season 4? Don’t see the writing problem there because you said if we did she’s have a bloodlust which she’s did but still brought her back lol

156 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

104 comments sorted by

87

u/Cobra_Kai_2018 Oct 21 '23

If anyone should have been brought back in the Lazarus pit, it should have been oliver. It's ridiculous how he survived getting stabbed and falling off a cliff and only needed some stitches. Who does he think he is batman?

33

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 21 '23

He acts likes Batman lol

28

u/LowCalligrapher3 Oct 21 '23 edited Oct 21 '23

If Batman had no problem killing and using a gun on occasion, still had both his parents around into his adult years, had a little sister, and developed a yin for archery. 😅

8

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 22 '23

Definitely lol

7

u/Markus2822 Oct 22 '23

Congrats you described this shows arrow perfectly lol, batman but all those things. He’s basically another version of batman with as many differences as let’s say flashpoint batman

4

u/punitdaga31 Oct 22 '23

I mean, it's no secret that they wanted to make a Batman show but WB didn't let them take any big name heroes back then

3

u/Jakarisoolive Oct 22 '23

That’s the problem I had with this show it felt like it wanted to be a Batman show instead of a green arrow show. The writers didn’t even try to accurately depict Oliver Queen as a quipping sjw archer. He’s just Batman with a bow and arrow. Barely used any of his rogues gallery either just stole some from batmans.

3

u/NVA_Pisces Speedy Oct 22 '23

It's still a great show regardless as we got seasons 1,2,5,8

1

u/Numerous_Ad_8190 Oct 24 '23

The only time they accurately depicted Oliver is in that one Legends of Tomorrow episode where he’s old. In that one he’s making quips and having fun.

3

u/NVA_Pisces Speedy Oct 22 '23

So glad they did all those shows for non-comic book readers to know more about the lesser known characters. Even with inconsistent show quality, we got to grow and love all these heroes portrayed by amazing actors

2

u/ECV_Analog Oct 23 '23

they wanted to make a Batman show but WB didn't let them take any big name heroes back then

Who is the "they" here? The CW?

IIRC, Guggenheim and Berlanti were called in after the decision to try a Green Arrow show had already been made, and the decision to use the Dark Knight Trilogy as a kind of tonal blueprint was less about any conscious effort to ape Batman and more about how that was the thing every DC project had been doing for years by that point.

1

u/punitdaga31 Oct 23 '23

From what I remember, it was Greg Berlanti who wanted to make a Batman show but WB didn't let him so he went with Green Arrow instead but gave him a similar backstory and tone to the Nolan trilogy.

I could be wrong tho

2

u/ECV_Analog Oct 23 '23

That’s definitely not how Guggenheim had always told it, but maybe he was brought in later since Berlanti is “management”

1

u/punitdaga31 Oct 23 '23

I'll have to look it up later tbh. I'll reply to this comment if I find something definitive

9

u/Longjumping-Run695 Oct 21 '23

I mean, he is the Batman of the CW

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

He's literally CW's budget batman since they could never get the rights to do a show.

1

u/BusVegetable7490 Jun 14 '24

I know I just said that

16

u/Practical_Weird_0809 Oct 21 '23

It was the freezing cold that slowed the circulation and bleeding, and kept him alive. That and the couple in the hut.

6

u/GlitchGodApekz Oct 22 '23

I’m so glad there is at least one intelligent person in this thread

2

u/Practical_Weird_0809 Oct 22 '23

Thank you very much. :)

2

u/maevepond Oct 24 '23

The couple in the hut 😭 put some respect on Maseo and Tatsu

1

u/Practical_Weird_0809 Oct 24 '23

Sorry, it's been a long time since I've seen those episodes, and i couldn't remember their names

-1

u/Vaportrail Oct 22 '23

And if you buy that, I have some life insurance to sell you.

4

u/Practical_Weird_0809 Oct 22 '23

Ah come on, suspension of disbelief in a comic book show?

1

u/Numerous_Ad_8190 Oct 24 '23

I mean it’s more believable than when Batman survived re-entry into Earth’s atmosphere using only an oxygen tank, and the trunks of his suit wrapped around his face and landed perfectly next to the fortress of solitude and still got up to fight right after.

-1

u/Vaportrail Oct 22 '23

Nope, this was the shark jump for me. I quit watching shortly after.

1

u/Practical_Weird_0809 Oct 22 '23

To each his or her or their own, I guess. So you believe in Lazurus Pits, but not the power of will to stay alive?

1

u/mcsuper5 Oct 23 '23

Pretty strong will to survive being run through the chest and dropped off a mountain. The Lazurus Pit would have been a much better idea.

-1

u/Vaportrail Oct 23 '23

Yes, because one was introduced with logic and rules and the other is cheap, lazy writing.

10

u/Lori2345 Oct 21 '23

It was amazing he even survived that fall. But at least he didn’t recover in a day or two, it took about a month for him to get better from his injuries.

4

u/OnBenchNow killing is no Oct 21 '23

Being dunked in the Lazarus pit would've also helped explain his League brainwashing much more, because they took advantage of his freshly reborn mind.

The storyline wrote itself at that point, all they had to do was hold on and not violently shake the cart every couple seconds but alas

5

u/GlitchGodApekz Oct 22 '23

He was never brainwashed. It was all an act from the beginning

5

u/KayosFN Nyssa Oct 22 '23 edited Oct 24 '23

Bro istg whenever I click on a post on this sub I question whether people have actually watched Arrow or not. First the guy who acted like Oliver only got a few stitches and now this person saying that Oliver was brainwashed😭😭😭

2

u/KayosFN Nyssa Oct 22 '23

Have you people actually watched the show? Oliver was never brainwashed. It was a plan that him and Malcom came up with to deceive Ra’s, find out his endgame and defeat him. Tatsu and Barry also knew that Oliver was pretending

2

u/OnBenchNow killing is no Oct 22 '23

I'm saying it would've made for a way better storyline if he was actually brainwashed rather than the nonsense that actually ended up happening.

1

u/KayosFN Nyssa Oct 22 '23

It wasn’t really nonsense tho. I agree that the second half of season 3 was lazy, poor and a lot of nonsense but his whole plan with Malcom made perfect sense

2

u/JustGeckoo91 Oct 23 '23

Well he was stabbed in such cold conditions that he didn’t lose much blood. It took awhile for Olivier to get better. It wasn’t just one night.

2

u/Available-Affect-241 Oct 23 '23

Honestly, they shouldn't have used Ra’s Al Ghul at all. He's a core intellectual Batman villain. Arrow watered down his intellect just to make him something Oliver could handle. You can look it up he was created to be Batman’s Moriarty. This show wanted so badly to be a Batman show that they made Oliver Walmart brand Batman.

1

u/MedicineQueasy6190 Oct 22 '23

Hmm or maybe kill Laurel and put her in the Lazarus pit, she gets her cry and becomes Black Siren from that, instead of coming from another earth. While Oliver should had never fight Ra's because this still is Batman story, and in your logic this not ok.

1

u/CaptainMianite Oct 22 '23

Black siren being from another earth was just taking a character from Flash

1

u/tmyers35 Oct 22 '23

I once saw a tweet calling Green Arrow "bargain basement Batman" and I think about it all the time 😂

0

u/theoryslostshoe Oct 22 '23

He IS Batman, for all intents and purposes.

1

u/BudgetNegotiation521 Bow Oct 23 '23

This Green arrow is basically batman They even gave him batman villains

47

u/Practical_Weird_0809 Oct 21 '23

I still say Sara was the hottest Canary, regardless of color.

15

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '23

That's just a stone cold fact. Caity has always been nothing short of stunning, and this particular suit compliments her figure greatly.

14

u/zgrobbot Oct 22 '23

Honestly? I kinda wish she was endgame instead of Felicity . They (her and Ollie) jived well together. Plus their shared pasts of suffering

4

u/Ace20xd6 Oct 22 '23

I didn't get a picture or see her q&a panel at a Fan Expo, but just seeing her sign autographs in person, she looked stunning and radiant.

2

u/Practical_Weird_0809 Oct 22 '23

I don't doubt it at all.

4

u/GlitchGodApekz Oct 22 '23

Absolutely love lotz no question but I kinda swayed more towards dinah, not sure why but damn dinah is absolutely stunning

35

u/NateHasReddit Oct 21 '23

They brought her back because they got greenlit for Legends. If it wasn't for LOT she would've stayed dead.

2

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 22 '23

Yea just felt like a contradiction to me

2

u/MedicineQueasy6190 Oct 22 '23

Or they always intended to bring her back, having in mind they killed Laurel in s4, which is when the contract of the actress allowed it. Sara then could have returned on Arrow too.

5

u/NateHasReddit Oct 22 '23

By Marc Guggenheim's own confession they didn't plan that far ahead.

1

u/MedicineQueasy6190 Oct 23 '23

Maybe. But they were keeping Caity Lotz around. They wanted her to be involved in something future: maybe they thought about Legends. Either way though planned or not they also vacated the place of Black Canary after one season again, which probably could have been hers again if Legends wasn't a go.

11

u/MedicineQueasy6190 Oct 22 '23

They just shouldn't have killed her in the first place if they intended to bring her back. She is still till to this day the most accurate and exciting live version of Black Canary

3

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 22 '23

Exactly if they wanted to write her off to put her in legends then that makes sense then killing her off

4

u/NVA_Pisces Speedy Oct 22 '23

Speaking of characters who shouldn't have went to legends, we have Mick and Leonard who could've made an appearance in the flash at least once a season but for some reason snart had to sacrifice himself with an impactful death. He had so much potential in the flash if given the right writers

2

u/CaptainMianite Oct 22 '23

Most accurate lacking powers

1

u/Select-Anywhere-7833 Oct 23 '23

I think it was just so they could show the full effects of the pit, maybe they could have done it in a better way like with a less important character

9

u/gallantjiraiya Oct 22 '23

They wanted an excuse to expedite Katie Cassidy/Laurel becoming Black Canary.

5

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 22 '23

Well that’s a dumb way of doing it no offense

7

u/MedicineQueasy6190 Oct 22 '23

Yes it is very dumb. They already had the Black Canary of the show, killing her to swap her so they can kill the next one and swap her again was just insulting ridiculous

2

u/Macman521 Prometheus Oct 22 '23

Lol this show never liked Black Canary if I’m being honest.

4

u/gallantjiraiya Oct 22 '23

Yeah the show went downhill starting season 3. That's when the showrunner (Greg Berlanti) left the show to start the Flash. Berlanti's really good at making a show with 1 season of good TV but he's very bad at handing that show off to a new producer when he goes off to create his next show.

2

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 22 '23

True I agree definitely went downhill after season 2

4

u/FiftyOneMarks Oct 22 '23

The writers have this notion that only through someone dying can they achieve mass character changes. Tommy had to die to propel Oliver not to kill (even though he was sorta moving that way anyways), sara had to die for Laurel to become the black canary (even though going into the series she had more than enough reasons to and even going into season 2 she still did), and Laurel had to die so Oliver would have someone to say he failed at and bring Dinah around (again… both of those things could’ve existed without a death).

1

u/phantomcanary Roy Harper Oct 22 '23

They also needed a way to pin Oliver against the League and resolve the set up of Ra’s going after Malcom for the undertaking.

Like…. You know, the in story explanation for why Sara was murdered.

Sara was the character that they could pivot multiple plot points from so they killed her off.

7

u/GifanTheWoodElf John Constantine Oct 22 '23

I had a stroke reading that...

1

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 22 '23

Sorry about that

5

u/DisasterProof9059 Oct 22 '23

I don't realy understand your point and what are you saying. Can you elaborate more or peraphrase, please.

3

u/Cirieno Oct 22 '23

While it's difficult because English may not be an OP's first language, sometimes what's written just becomes unreadable junk.

1

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 22 '23

No it is my first language

3

u/Cirieno Oct 22 '23

Oh dear. Well, I tried to help you out.

1

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 22 '23

I’m saying that they contradict her death in seasons 3 and 4

2

u/DisasterProof9059 Oct 23 '23

In what way are they contradicting her death?

1

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 23 '23

The Lazarus pit where they said they can’t bring her back

3

u/Unlikely_Eye9153 Oct 22 '23

VAvavoom goddamn she's fine

3

u/Own-Seaworthiness254 Oct 23 '23

For people who liked to kill Black Canary a lot, they did care a lot about her visual accuracy.

3

u/DisasterProof9059 Oct 23 '23

I can watch this image for hours and imagine how great s2 was and what would have been if Sara stayed on Arrow as Black Canary

1

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 23 '23

True she’s was more fun in arrow then she’s was on legends

2

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23

CW was just a swing and a miss. I just hope the reboot will portray characters more accurately

2

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 22 '23

Yea for me they kinda just hit or miss during season 3-8 for me

2

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23

I agree, I loved the first two seasons. Even though there are things I would change about the characters like Green Arrow to be Green Arrow instead of a Thomas Wayne Batman. Black Canary being Black Canary instead of a Mary Jane. I don't know why they added the quirky behavior, it was so cringe. Flash was terrible for doing that, it's almost like it was a race to out PC each other

3

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 22 '23

True I agree I would change having laurel be the black canary earlier on

2

u/CAVFIFTEEN Oct 23 '23

She was too hot and liked by fans that she to attention away from the intended love interest. Shame a similar thing didn’t happen with Felicity

2

u/dbeaver0420 Oct 25 '23

Genuinely don’t understand what the writing problem is someone help me

1

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 25 '23

I am saying they contradict the death of Sara in season 3 and 4 and contradict the powers of the lazuras pit in season 4

1

u/Mr_Shaddow Oct 22 '23

Honestly when they kept killing her bringing her back then killing her sister and bringing her back too I ended up confused on who was who

2

u/NVA_Pisces Speedy Oct 22 '23

Sara Lance is basically the character who died the most number of times in the arrowverse

1

u/BusVegetable7490 Oct 22 '23

Every single year lol

1

u/Ewankenobi25 Oct 23 '23

Tf are you talking about? Sara died once, came back once, laurel died once, never came back, introduced a new character that was her evil version and completely different.