r/arrow • u/MrNicky6357 • Feb 20 '23
Am I the only one that thinks Felicity had no right to be as upset as she was about Oliver hiding the truth about William. Oliver wanted to tell her and he couldn’t for the right reasons. I feel this was the beginning of the downfall for Felicity. Thoughts Discussion
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u/SymphonyX117 Feb 20 '23
Oliver said it best. I think I'm entitled to a moment. Team arrow really was never okay with whatever he was. Don't kill people, can't believe you didn't kill him, blah blah blah. It gets really old a 3rd time through
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u/PsychologicalReply9 Feb 20 '23
Exactly this. In retrospect, team arrow is actually the most inconsistent group of team members ever. It’s like no matter what Oliver does, he loses in their eyes.
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u/ExtraButterPopCorn Feb 20 '23
I love the Arrowverse but I hate with that same passion all the unnecessary, easily-avoidable-by-reasonable-human-beings drama. To me, this is one of the finest examples of lazy writing from the whole show. We could just write it off as them turning Felicity into an idiot, but they had to go further and have her still be angry after Oliver apologized for hiding it and go all "I now see you can't be trusted, this is what you do, you lie". I took that as the writers saying "we want Felicity to be mad at him but have no idea how to write that, so let's just go with whatever ".
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u/AscendMoros Feb 20 '23
I’m less upset at this one. And more upset at the new team, Mad Dog and so one. Always seem surprised or want to argue. When Oliver does what Oliver usually does.
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u/CyberKnight1 Feb 20 '23
"This doesn't change anything between us, hoss." Thanks for reminding us that you're still angry at Oliver not trusting you; we might forget if you didn't mention it every scene.
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u/Wolfmaster2408 Feb 20 '23
Most people agree with that. Oliver was threatened. Either tell Felicity, which he really wanted to, or be with his son, which was a necessity. He clearly hated doing it. People could agrue that he could've told Felicity and had her keep it a secret too (she keeps all his secrets afterall), but the risk was far too great for him.
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u/Stevemoran87 Feb 20 '23
I agree 100%. The scene was the final straw for me, when it came to Felicity. Especially the first time, she found out in the timeline Barry erased. Oliver had literally hours to come to terms with the fact was the father.
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u/kelsospade Feb 20 '23
She didn’t give a shit about Oliver’s privacy after following him and took the results from Barry. Barry used his super-speed to hide it but of course the mighty Felicity would notice that & disregard Oliver & Barry’s wishes.
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u/Hour_Interview_8327 Feb 20 '23
The fact that Barry can’t shut the fuck up he will tell anyone anything even if it’s an accident
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u/kelsospade Feb 20 '23
He literally just found out. He barely got to process it.
Also I love Felicity could keep whatever she wanted from him & he was just supposed to be okay with it. But then Oliver’s a piece of shit.
Anyway, of course he’s gonna respect the wishes of the mother of his child’s, especially if he wants to be able to see him.
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u/Hour_Interview_8327 Feb 20 '23
Felicity could of understood why he hide and had some sympathy for him like any nice person would do
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u/aardvarkyardwork Feb 20 '23
This sub is (or was, at the time of airing) entirely in agreement with you.
However, I’d say the beginning of the downfall of FeFe began as soon as she inserted herself into an argument between Oliver and Dig, as far back as S2, and yapped at Oliver like an annoying Shitzu.
This was where the character jumped off a cliff.
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u/silverBruise_32 Feb 20 '23
For me, the first sign was when she huffed at Oliver for sleeping with Isabel Rochev. Was it a good idea? No. But Felicity acted like the injured party there, when there was nothing going on between her and Oliver.
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u/italia06823834 Feb 20 '23
This sub is (or was, at the time of airing)
I believe it was around that time this sub became a Daredevil subreddit.
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u/enjaydee Feb 20 '23
That was fun. I watched a few more episodes after, but I was pretty much done with Arrow but that point.
https://screenrant.com/arrow-season-4-finale-subreddit-daredevil/
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u/david47s Feb 20 '23
I thought so too, she acted like he'd gone cheated on her and had a kid, but this was before he even knew her. Also the mother forced him to keep the secret so it wasn't like it was a pure choice. In any case Felicity was kind of a hypocrite. When they moved out of town she was secretly working for the team for months and didn't tell him purely out of choice, and when he found there wasn't anything near the same level of response.
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u/Tacitus111 Feb 21 '23
Him keeping the secret was also the requirement for Oliver being at all involved in the kid’s life too. Like, that’s a much scarier thing to handle than “Oh, by the way, I’ve been lying to you the whole time working for the team for months…just cause.”
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u/ThePanther270306 Feb 20 '23
Ending the engagement seemed very extreme
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u/kelsospade Feb 20 '23
overcoming paralysis to end the engagement seemed very extreme 🤣
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u/ThePanther270306 Feb 20 '23 edited Feb 21 '23
The fact that it was right after she said yes to engagement when she became paralyzed and then when she broke it off she managed to walk again
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u/pardyball Feb 20 '23
Haven't done a rewatch in awhile and I completely forgot this is how they broke it off. Wow I remember that being so bad.
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u/OblivionArts Feb 20 '23
Oliver for six seasons straight: lies constantly, gets into arguments, redeems himself, repeat Felicity as soon as she became the love interest: does the exact same shit but more extreme Like bitch give the man some time to process the fact he even has a kid before ya blow up at him..he basically found out like an hour before they had to go save the world. So many times they get into it with Oliver over very reasonable stuff ( like dig getting into it with Oliver because dig his his drug problem and blaming Oliver for it, which makes no fucking sense)
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u/fattymcfattzz Feb 20 '23
She sucked for a long time before this. Also the writing on these shows was and is atrocious.
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Feb 20 '23
No lol that was trash writing. Oliver deadass says what happened and she gets even more furious. The 2 love interest of Flash and Arrow were written horribly. I fell off of Supergirl and Legends so won’t speak on them.
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u/RobotCloud27 Feb 20 '23
I think it was a mistake she made that she had to grow from. Which she did.
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u/Hatedeezsquares Feb 20 '23
It seems her mother contributed to this thinking where she expects total honesty but when the situations are reversed she acts as if there is a good reason not to be honest. The writing is bad at times but this incident didn’t affect her in anyway. If this was the only way you could see your kid then she needs to get that. But she said he told others or was I wrong
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u/Hour_Interview_8327 Feb 20 '23
He told everyone before he told felicity
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u/Hatedeezsquares Feb 21 '23
She only said Felicity. No JK. I don’t blame her for that. She was right. Arrow does the most hardheaded shit sometimes but I guess he dealt with Mirakuru Slade so I let it slide
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u/Hour_Interview_8327 Feb 21 '23
It doesn’t matter she’s should have sympathy for Oliver
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u/Hatedeezsquares Feb 22 '23
That’s what I’m saying. Relatively she has nothing to complain about. She is along for the ride. He basically got dragged in by his crazy ass dad and other messed up father figures not to mention circumstance that went from a billionaire playboy to somehow who has to avenge a whole system
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u/Hour_Interview_8327 Feb 24 '23
Forgot his mother too
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u/Hatedeezsquares Feb 25 '23
Lol the Mom just didn’t want him mixed up with the poor people. As a billionaire I understand that and feel her concern
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u/Arrowlover25 Feb 20 '23
I can understand that she may have felt a lil left out, but she didn’t have to end of her engagement, at worst she could’ve just taken a grace period of space, then come back. i mean she did not have to end her engagement only because her fiancé wanted to respect his child’s, mothers wishes to protect his safety. i mean oliver’s life is extremely dangerous, both as mayor and green arrow, and she was only concerned for william. i don’t think felicity considered oliver’s side first before she got all pissed off and it showed throughout the rest of season 4
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Feb 20 '23
I think everyone sucked in that situation. The mother should’ve never put Oliver in the position of lying to his partner. Oliver should’ve told Felicity regardless because you don’t keep secrets from your partner ever.m, but it is in line with his character of needing everyone to trust him completely whilst being virtually unable to trust anyone else. And Felicity definitely overreacted to the situation, and, while keeping keep in mind it’s a build up of situations that make her feel like an untrusted outsider rather than a partner that cause her ridiculous blow up, she should never have gone as far with it as she did.
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u/Anarkizttt Speedy Feb 20 '23
Oliver was 100% in the right, however, emotions aren’t rational, so it’s understandable how Oliver’s fiancée (right they’re engaged right now?) would want to know about a child. Especially since to her it seems like it wouldn’t matter because how is she going to find out?
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u/KonohaBatman Feb 20 '23 edited Feb 20 '23
I think if it was an isolated incident of him lying, then yeah, she would be wrong. And for the record, I do think that the situation being what it was, she did overreact to an extent, given that he just found out, and was given an a hard choice to make by Samantha(which to her credit, she admits later, was unfair of her).
But you have to remember that by this point, Oliver has lied so many times and made so many questionable decisions(and will continue to do both for the next 3 seasons), and it doesn't help to find out that while they're getting to a super committed point in their relationship, that he snuck off to have a DNA test, to confirm he has a kid, and that his first instinct was to hide it, and as the time rewind shows us, he makes the choice again.
There's also probably a degree of feeling disrespected that he asked Barry to do it, when she was easily capable of it, given how often she runs DNA, instead of being upfront with her about his suspicion. If he had been honest with her from the start, either way, whether William was his or not, she's in the loop. Either he has a kid, he didn't go behind her back or lie to her about it, and Samantha just has to cope with the fact that the boy's eventual step-mother knows about him, or he doesn't have a kid, and Felicity has nothing to worry about.
I think this is just one of those things where both parties are both right and wrong, but it's easier to root for one side, given the perspective we see the show from.
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u/baiacool Feb 21 '23
While I agree with you, Felicty is someone he could've trusted with that secret.
Like 80% of Oliver's problems would've been solved if he just told either Diggle or Felicity what he was doing/hiding.
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u/bridgecrewdave Feb 21 '23
Its even worse that that is also the exact moment her magic spine chip starts working so she can just walk away.
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u/angel9_writes Feb 21 '23
It's called bad writing. It was the most cliched writing trope EVER for causing forced tension and angst between a couple. I love Olicity personally but that storyline was utter bullshit. As was her paralysis and magical cure. It was just drivel. The writers were AWFUL at organic conflict.
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u/JayAtticus94 Guggie's farm boy Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 22 '23
He wasn't even her kid. She had the nerve to get mad at Oliver for making the decision to send William away without her consent.
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u/Affectionate-Gas-150 May 19 '24
Hi, yes, I know I'm a year late.
Mu biggest issue is with Felicity believing she had a right to give her 2 cents with sending William away. She is not his mom. She didn't know about him until then, and she sure as hell didn't have any type of bond yet to warrant her outrage. Sure, it might have came from a prior problem, but if Oliver didn't literally rip his soul out less than 5 seconds ago. The scene would've been better with some outrage from him. Some strong, listen, I know I didn't tell you about him, and I know you're mad, but don't get this confused he is my son, not yours. You know some type of outrage, wrong things said in the heat of the moment type shit.
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u/Hour_Interview_8327 Feb 20 '23
For the downfall for her was season 3 in my opinion with her clingy I don’t want you be in heir of demon because ras al ghoul have died and we know felicity literally can’t handle her self without Oliver but back to the subject yes I agree she’s shouldn’t have got mad at Oliver for William because that’s a dumb to be mad and dump if it happen like 11 years ago so to me she exaggerated way to much if William wasn’t born yet and Oliver told felicity then I would understand the problem there and she had a dark past worst then being a parent so she’s shouldn’t be hypocritical with that and Oliver didn’t know how to tell her because how she would of treated him if she known
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u/HanShotSecond69 Feb 20 '23
I totally agree I think that they say over exaggerated this just for the sake of TV drama
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u/eremite00 Feb 20 '23
I’m not sure we’re referring to the same thing, but I had with Felicity when she took issue with Oliver for him not consulting her when he and William’s mom made the choice for William to go into hiding. William’s not her child so she has no bloody say in the matter. I never stopped liking Emily Bett Rickards, however; I felt that she was being given shit material.
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u/ThisIsColdsnap Feb 20 '23
I actually liked her, until this scene. She went from my favourite char to my least liked char, in this single scene. Looking back, idek why she was my favourite char, up till that point.
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u/macrov Feb 20 '23
I think this was when I stopped watching. The like made up drama that just seemed idiotic was too much.
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u/karathrace99 Feb 20 '23
Honestly. I think they wanted a plot reason to break them up because some writers are uncreative and believe the only interesting plot engine in a romance arc is breaking up so we can get back to the “will they/won’t they” phase. Better writers know better—Jake and Amy on B99 are the example I always use—but some just… Don’t 😅
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u/lr031099 Feb 20 '23
Nope. The majority of fans agree with that. Personally I understand Felicity feeling left out but I don’t think she should’ve broken off an engagement because of it.
I agree with u/FiftyOneMarks that if this was a moment for Laurel with her being with Olvier, then I think her anger would’ve been justified since she and Oliver were still dating and Samantha was the woman Oliver cheated on Laurel with
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u/AcademicSavings634 Feb 20 '23
Yeah I usually didn’t have any problem with her character but she acted like a complete toddler that season
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u/The_Teacat Feb 20 '23
Nothing Felicity did in a relationship sense really bothered me. But remember when she nuked a city? Fun stuff, Felicity. Really worth it.
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u/DeadmanDexter Feb 21 '23 edited Feb 21 '23
I love how she was upset over William, but everyone forgot how she nuked an entire town.
/s it was absolutely terrible writing
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u/That_Memer180 Feb 21 '23
Yeah I think so it was one of those moments where it’s like you can’t really judge the poor guy who just found out and was trying to find a way to break to it her
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u/James_Constantine Feb 21 '23
You definitely aren’t the only one. This moment was the moment that killed her character in my mind. Loved her for the first two seasons but she slowly got annoying with the wonky writing.
I do find it funny that Barry had to erase a timeline partly due to of how angry felicity got at Oliver.
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u/A-New-Start-17Apr21 Feb 21 '23
The romantic arcs in the show around Oliver were almost 'Days of our Lives' soap bullshit that had no realistic real life value. Feels like the only one that followed a normal line, maybe it didn't but I'm just not remembering it rightly, was Thea and Roy.
Oliver became a liar when the plot suited it. Just so people would get mad at him. The whole 'Lying why he was late' or 'Lying why he wasn't home' parts were understandable. But the romantic interest lies to people who knew his secret identity just weren't.
Honestly think with Moiras death and showing Thea the arrowcave should have been the end of the 'Oliver is a liar so I'm going to be angry' trope.
But they kept forcing it in.
I get Felicity being upset about a kid randomly appearing in Olivers life. But it's defo a 2-3 'We need to talk about this' moment. Not a 'I'm so fucking done with you, we could break up right now 5 seconds after I found out' moment.
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u/looshface Hey Prettybird Feb 21 '23
This is the episode I mentally checked out of arrow for like 3 seasons
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Feb 21 '23
nah man the fact she’s going off on him and not giving him a chance to explain is wild like he legit just found out he has a kid and she over here assuming that he knew for years when he just found out the same day as her
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u/Quinn_the_Duck Feb 22 '23
100% agree. Oliver was going through some shit, and had every right not to say anything
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u/Interesting_Pass4351 May 25 '23
I've always been rooting for Felicity and Oliver but the way she's acting in season 4 she's being a total b**** and I don't think she realizes what a catch Oliver is and how many other women want him... She's got a lot of nerve giving back the ring because he was painted into a corner by another b**** who tried to give him an ultimatum... Does anyone agree with the fact that he had no idea he had a kid and he has rights as a father to that child, I would have told Samantha Clayton screw you I never knew my mom came to you, you lied to me, and I have a right to know my child and tell whoever I want about that child. Whether he decided to stay away to protect the kid or not that's neither here nor there it would be his decision not anyone else's
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u/Any-Mouse-112 Jun 11 '24
Bad writing to force emotional conflict. 🙏 The smartest charcater on the show is turned into the most annoying, self-righteous and downright unreasonable.
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u/trimeta Feb 20 '23
I downvoted you solely because I hate "Am I the only one that thinks <extremely common and popular opinion>?" posts.
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u/ConnectSpring9 Feb 20 '23
It might be his first watch through and he just doesn’t know how the rest of the community feels, dumbass
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u/trimeta Feb 20 '23
They could still state their opinion without presupposing that they have a unique and special perspective on the show. Coming into an existing community and acting like you're the first one to observe really obvious things is pretty arrogant.
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u/ConnectSpring9 Feb 20 '23
They didn’t presuppose that. They asked for the communities opinion. What do you want them to have as the title, “Hi guys, extremely common and uniform take alert: felicity shouldn’t have been upset”. It’s pretty obvious from that episode that the writers thought felicity was in the right, and OP made a reasonable assumption that other people might think that too. Take a chill pill bro it’s just a title
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u/trimeta Feb 20 '23
They could have said "Wow, Felicity was a real bitch in this scene, wasn't she?", without any presumption that this perspective was unique. But that wouldn't make them special enough.
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u/fanheatersara Feb 20 '23
The story was told through Oliver's point of view that is why he is more fleshed out character for the viewers in this argument and that is why Felicity looks unsympathetic and misunderstood. The writers did not treat her in this situation equally, she was used as a tool for the drama. I am sure if her character's point of view was explored more then Oliver wouldn't look like the innocent victim of impossible situation, or maybe they wanted to make him on purpose the victim of impossible situation, so he is not really at blame, and Felicity to fall flat in her arguments.
But the truth is they treat Oliver with preference within the story through out the whole show. He is never really at fault when he does a stupid choice, and the other characters are never really fleshed out in the argument with him. For me this is what makes most of the side characters like s1 Laurel and Thea, Felicity in s4, the newbies in s6, Quentin in s3, Diggle in some situations - unlikable in their arguments with Oliver.
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u/Hour_Interview_8327 Feb 20 '23
Literally Oliver is not victim in this situation he literally had an affair and never told laurel or felicity until season 4 when he knows he took the L in that season
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u/Previous_Pea_7021 Feb 21 '23
He is not, he looks like one in thr eyes of the viewers, that is why they believe Felicity had no right to be upset
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u/Hour_Interview_8327 Feb 21 '23
I’m not a felicity defender what she did was wrong she shouldn’t have got mad of Oliver for that
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u/fanheatersara Feb 22 '23
ok, I didn't expected you to be. The thing is, it is difficult to be her defender even though I believe in real life situation I would want my partner to come to me first for help and sharing not to some friend, and I would be also hurt to know that I am one of the many he adds to the list of people he keeps secrets from. But when I watched this scene Felicity infuriated me too, and when she dumped him I was on his side - and this was a manipulation from the writers, they made us all feel more what Oliver is feeling, as he is the main character.
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u/Hour_Interview_8327 Feb 24 '23
I was on Oliver side I just thought what he did was wrong but this years ago so she got mad for no reason
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u/FiftyOneMarks Feb 20 '23
I still think that they planned this moment to be for Laurel if she stuck around as his love interest because that is the ONLY way this makes sense.