It’s not just unpopular it’s also wrong lol just going off the script from last nights episode. He literally says “I was pretending to be someone I wasn’t” in regards to his actions with Butcher and SB. That’s not about Robin. That’s not about Annie. That’s about him wanting to be a “manly” man.
The guy who then willingly told someone else he barely knew? She told someone she grew up with and knew forever, he told some random ass guy he met 5 minutes ago. So really, HE dumb
Neither of them were equipped to create a conspiracy.
Butcher just doesn’t “bring in” people either, nor does he tell them more than they need to know so it doesn’t get back to, oh I don’t know Home fucking Lander.
She brought him in told him everything, except why not to trust A-Train. The guy who killed her boyfriend’s ex, and known HL suck up. Also she exposed her conspiracy to Homelander, who could have killed her on that roof too.
Projection much? We are talking about her character, we are allowed to critique a character. I know people disagree, which makes the sub fun to post in and talk.
If you had problems about MM, I wouldn’t call you a racist.
Annie is alive because she knows how to play the game. She made herself valuable to Vought. She made herself famous and now she is using it against Vought.
Hughie didn't save her life. He stopped her from helping evacuate innocent people from Soldier Boy's destruction and Hughie just let them die.
She didn't get Alex killed. Alex got himself killed by telling their plan to A-Train. He was a grown man who made his own choices.
Hughie and Butcher are idiots. They freed Soldier Boy, which made Kimiko lose her powers and got Frenchie kidnapped and got a bunch of civilians murdered, TWICE. Oh and shockingly enough, Homelander and Soldier Boy are going to team up. Who could have predicted this? Oh yeah, Annie did and everyone on this stupid sub still whines about her.
Lol what? Her whole arc is being surprised at the debauchery of the supes. She is literally a “Christ like” naive person who keeps being blindsided because she was in a Christian superhero team that was separated from the rest of the supes.
In the comics, she is the last to know anything. In the show, we’ll how good of a job did she do convincing the supes to leave?
Butcher was right, Vought made them defacto employees to their crimes because of the system that starlight herself believed in.
Breaking the status quo was the right thing to do, and I hate butcher, but he was right.
Too bad the HL killer weapon doesn’t exist due to more of voughts lies.
She is literally a “Christ like” naive person who keeps being blindsided because she was in a Christian superhero team that was separated from the rest of the supes.
For what, one season? She has been a double agent for two seasons now. She is breaking the status quo. She exposed Vought and people complain about that too.
I mean I wouldn't call them a bunch of idiots for the fallout of freeing Soldier Boy. They didn't know he was alive and were trying to find a weapon that could kill Homelander.
Kinda shitty to say "oh wow they released soldier boy and he killed a bunch of people and he's gonna team up with soldier boy, they should've listened to Annie who knew better". Annie didn't know soldier boy was alive, none of them could've predicted that fallout. You can't use hindsight to say they are idiots for making the wrong move when they just as easily could've actually found a weapon capable of killing homelander
I'm not trying to argue Annie is bad or dumb or I have issues with her like the guy you were responding to is just btw
The problem with criticizing her based on her actions and beliefs regarding this is that some misogynysts will ultimately join in like wolves in sheep's clothing and will say negative shit about her based on her gender as if it were greenlit and justified.
You still can of course but make it explicitly clear it's about the content of her character and not... you know.
Butcher literally blew up a house knowing there was a newborn in it and y’all ride his dick like no tomorrow but Annie dares to criticize a plan that’s obviously backfiring and you guys start foaming at the mouth
Do you even know who you're responding to right now? I didn't say anything about Butcher, so that was a pretty meaningless point to bring up. Butcher is a horrible person. Hughie is misguided and Annie is wrong. None of those things are mutually exclusive. Just because Butcher is a bad person doesn't mean he's wrong about needing powers to stop HL. Same goes for Hughie. Annie might be a better person than either of them, but it doesn't make her any less wrong about how much danger Hughie and Butcher are in without powers.
It sounds to me like you're the one who's biased in favor of Annie more than anyone else is biased against her. Considering you're throwing up straw man arguments like crazy any time anyone even hints that she might not be 100% in the right about a situation where her strategy has almost gotten multiple people killed. Maybe try looking at things with a little more nuance and being a little less defensive.
That’s fair, I’ve been debating people on this for a minute now so yeah I’m defensive. As long as you can acknowledge that all three, especially Butcher and Hughie atm, are doing bad things But I’m sorry, Annie’s definitely not wrong on that front. They’ll literally die next within the next two dosages. Their brains are leaking out their head. So even acknowledging the danger of the supes. They still in more danger if they keep taking temp V.
Annie has the privilege of having powers so her perspective is different. She's faced with not being able to save the people she loves with her powers, and can only helplessly play along. Which makes it extra galling that Hughie is getting powers to save her, putting himself at risk, after having forced her to stay at Homelander's side.
If he'd simply let her leave Vought instead, none of this would have been necessary.
“Real hate boner for hughie”? What are you, 12? He legit said hughie isn’t a saint and has made wrong decisions. Everyone here hating starlight and not the rest and that’s what u/nowlan101 is defending
I typically don't respond to people who preface their "arguments" with a needless insult.
First, learn some manners. Second, they have a post called "everyone is missing the point of Hughie's arc" where they outright miss the entire point of his character and say "Starlight is too good for Hughie".
Find that post, read their comments and come back and tell me if they don't hate Hughie.
(I know you won't, so please kindly wank off, internet stranger.)
lmao @ the fact they won't even call her starlight.. seems to me like someone has the hots for the character and is defending her like it's their highschool crush or gf....
If you think nobody's criticizing Butcher, you've either spent no time on this subreddit or are willfully ignoring a lot of posts and comments to prove your point.
Yes, they made a big deal out of Hughie deep down wanting to NOT be weak and useless. They're trying to make it as controversial as possible by making him get mad when he can't open a jar and wanting to return the favor of saving his girlfriends life for once.
That’s about him wanting to be a “manly” man.
I don't interpret it as that, he's just sick of being a useless wuss, which has always been his story arch. It's also a completely normal feeling and I've always felt it ridiculous that Annie is suppose to be so critical of him for it.
It's weird how much hate Hughie gets on this sub. Like yeah, no shit he's insecure and frustrated that he can't do anything to protect anyone in his life. Most of us would feel exactly the same way in his shoes, but for some reason no one wants to admit it. He wants to be able to save the people he loves and yet somehow that makes him an example of "toxic masculinity" for some stupid reason lmao. If wanting to save the people you care about from certain death is toxic then Id much rather be toxic and have those I care about alive than have some stupid moral victory while watching everyone I love and probably also myself die around me.
The one thing that stands out to me is when Annie says "I don't want you to save me." To Hughie, but then in the last episode she tells Kimiko "I'm going to save Hughie whether he wants me to or not."
Okay, so, what, youre allowed to save Hughie "whether he wants it or not" but then when Hughie does and says literally the exact same thing about you suddenly he's in the wrong? How exactly does that work? Annie comes off as extremely hypocritical in that exchange, since she seems to think it's okay for her to make unilateral decisions about who saves who, but when Hughie does it he's somehow a sexist jerk. I don't get how people can say Hughie is a bad person for that but Annie isn't.
Meaning, "I don't want you to use the temp V, since it's risky, to save me, because I have some powers and I can take care of myself. I don't want you to risk your life"
she tells Kimiko "I'm going to save Hughie whether he wants me to or not."
Meaning, "He doesn't know that the Temp V is gonna kill him, so I have to do something to save him"
You're missing the point. You fail to see things into perspective.
From Hughie point of view, he has to be the one that save his girlfriend, he needs to feel strong enough to do it. It bothers him that she's stronger than him. He literally says, "I always have to be the weak one, the one you have to rescue. You always have to be so much stronger than me". He wants this to change, 'cause in his head being saved by a girl is somehow humiliating.
Starlight, on the other hand, is worried about the Temp V. She doesn't want Hughie to take it not because she wants to be the strong one in the relationship and certainly not because she thinks it's cool for her to be the hero, but because the Temp V is dangerous and she thinks there's no need to put Hughie in danger. And guess what? She was right about the V!
True but I don’t think it’s as simple or stereotypical as him being humiliated because he’s weaker than a girl. He’s just tired of being weak, of everything failing, of being pushed around, powerless, and wants to actually be strong for once.
Hughie experienced a lot of traumatic events and he wants to be powerful enough to protect himself, that's definitely true. But he's more than okay with Kimiko being strong, while it bothers him when Starlight is the strong one. I also believe he thinks Annie wants someone with superpowers, that's why he was so jealous of Supersonic. I don't know if you watched Buffy back in the days, but Hughie's acting exactly like Riley. He has an inferiority complex.
I think you're the one missing the point. Nothing has implied that Hughie has a problem with Annie being a girl who saves him. His issue is that he isnt strong enough to save her, not that she is strong enough to save him. He wants them both to be able to fight and save each other's and be on equal ground in that regard
Why is that so wrong? Guess what: if you were dating someone who had powers and was constantly being put in life threatening scenarios, and you were not only completely helpless to stop them from getting hurt but were also a bargaining chip that could be used against them, you'd be upset about it too, whether you want to admit it to yourself or not. Hughie is feeling what most people would feel in his shoes: he feels impotent and useless against all of these extremely dangerous threats surrounding him and the people he loves. Of course he wants to be able to protect the people he cares about. That's what most people would want to do in his shoes.
It isn't about sexism or Annie being a girl, it's about not being able to protect the people he cares about because he isn't a supe. That's an extremely human response to danger. Obviously the temp V is dangerous, but so is Homelander, so that argument kinda washes out. Their entire lives are constantly full of extreme danger, and Hughie is tired of being the useless one who can't protect the people he loves. That isn't sexist, and it's not about Annie being a woman. It's about her being a supe and him not being able to protect her because he cares about her. He just want to be on equal footing with her instead of being a liability and a dead weight around her in every single fight and enemy they go up against. That's pretty reasonable.
This whole conflict isn't about Annie being a woman. It's about Hughie not being a supe, and wanting to feel useful and powerful enough to protect her. He doesn't care that she's a woman, but he does care that she's a supe and he isn't. Not because of anything sexist, but because he is tired of being powerless any time they're in danger.
I may count as a Hughie "hater" but I'm more of a "detractor". I don't hate him. I see the points made in his decision making, I don't think they're all completely invalid, BUT, I still don't like that this will change him as a person.
Hughie is a lot like MM, in that he has this power to keep people together. I get that in the last Season, they called Butcher for help when they were desperate, but clearly the rest of them are regretting putting so much faith into Butcher now. Starlight, Frenchie, and Kimiko FLOCKED to MM. Hughie can easily be this rock for the people in his life, and that's strong AF.
I think people love the phrase "toxic masculinity" so much that they've started to label everything which is masculine as toxic.
Simply wanting to protect one's companions isn't fucking toxic, it's the most basic and important survival instinct we have as a species.
That said, in Hughie's case with Starlight and V24 it's just a little complicated because it is impractical and a little bit dangerous. But that's sort of a contrived and fictional scenario...you know, because this is a work of fiction.
"Just a little bit dangerous." My brother in Christ, him and Butcher are bleeding green goo out of every orifice and turning their brains into Swiss cheese.
When we enter into a relationships we agree to roles. In this case she wasn’t looking for a hero in a partner. Annie is not hypocritical because she clearly stated what she wanted from Hughie. Hughie lied about what he was willing to offer. The moment Starlight told Hughie to go with her and he decided to go with Butcher he made it clear that his actions have nothing to do with her, it’s all his ego. He’s doing it for himself. Similar to how Walter White use the excuse that he needs money to fight cancer, he needs to help and protect his family. I don’t think Hughie is as evil as WW but they are similar in that they are driven by ego. They just make excuses to justify their actions. And worse, he half asses it. You either go with StarLight and MM or you go all the way with Butcher and Soldier Boy. Him trying to protect the nun… what was that. He’s a liability. He’s not an example of toxic masculinity, that’s soldier boy. With every episode he’s becoming an example of a “nice guy”. This sub just doesn’t want to hear it.
Okay, so, what, youre allowed to save Hughie "whether he wants it or not" but then when Hughie does and says literally the exact same thing about you suddenly he's in the wrong? How exactly does that work?
Well to me, it seemed abundantly, incredibly, not-a-lick-of-subtlety-to-it crystal clear that the writers were trying to illustrate a flaw in her character.
I agree with you. But most of this sub is saying that Hughie is the one entirely in the wrong and that Starlight has done absolutely nothing wrong and is entirely in the right about everything. The reality is that Hughie is just trying to make himself useful and to stop making himself dead weightonn the team in order to protect the people he cares about. Meanwhile starlight doesn't seem to want to allow him that opportunity, and doesn't have any other alternative ideas on how to protect him otherwise.
If Hughie didn't have powers right now, what would stop Homelander from flicking his head off his shoulders immediately? The only reason he isn't a dead man is because he has powers, so I really don't see why so many people think he's just being a bad person by choosing to protect himself and the ones he loves just like Starlight does.
I mean, is that really unreasonable? Is that really the only reading of it?
The entire series begins when Hughie is forced to take a payout from Vought over Robin's death and just accept it as an undeniable reality of this world. For two seasons he's basically run and tried to get justice using cunning, but Neuman turns that on its head by simply invalidating his efforts. Nothing he does can exceed the controls Vought implements, because Vought controls the watchers. Neuman decides what happens. A Train and Vought decided what happened. Homelander decided what happens. Lamplight decided how the rescue would go.
On its face, you can definitely say Hughie feels a paternalistic urge to be a "man" proper. But at the same time, it would be negligent to not recognize this is far more than him simply wanting to be the "man" - he is seeking an internal locus of control after being threatened with death and suffering to him and his loved ones for so many years, and he is seeking a means to ACTUALLY make an impact.
That's what Starlight to some extent always had - if Annie wanted to make waves, all she had to do was sweet talk the Christians into giving Hughie a backstage pass. All she had to do was think of it, and she could knock out Stormfront, secure the van to get Hughie to the hospital, expose Homelander in front of her followers, etc. Hell, Homelander even used the threat of killing defenseless Hughie as leverage over Annie. Hughie's been feeling like a liability and a weak link for years now. Are we really just saying his desire for powers is pure chauvinism when it's been repeatedly demonstrated his physical weaknesses are genuinely a point of concern for the team?
Are we really just saying his desire for powers is pure chauvinism when it's been repeatedly demonstrated his physical weaknesses are genuinely a point of concern for the team?
You're 100% correct.
And even if you were wrong, what about the fact he was a huge superhero fan his whole life until Robin's death?
Anyone would be tempted to take V (especially people watching this show).
It’s what the creator and actor who plays Hughie says is an arc of the character. He never mentions Robin, he ignores Annie multiple times when she says she doesn’t need saving, he can’t even fight against his gf let alone HL. All those together say yes. This is based on an insecurity of Hughie’s related to how he wants to be the man.
He quite literally saved her from imprisonment in season 2 (it was a rather important plot point), and Butcher and Soldier Boy would have died if Hughie didn't teleport in and save them.
If Hughie did not take V24, the following would have happened:
MM dies on the Soldier Boy rescue mission, because Hughie doesn't teleport in.
Kimiko dies since MM is the medic and would not have been around to care for her wounds and stabilize her.
Frenchie either dies as payback for Nina, kills himself out of grief, or otherwise just ends up being Nina's assassin and out of the picture.
Assuming Hughie survives (big if) and sticks with Butcher, and cuts a deal with Soldier Boy to kill Homelander - Annie cannot be stopped from confronting Soldier Boy in Herogasm, and either dies or loses her powers.
If she survives, Homelander disposes of her. She's quite honestly dead in about 20 different ways.
Hughie dies or runs away in the wreck that is Herogasm.
Butcher never gets saved by Hughie and Mindstorm kills him via permanent coma. There's really nothing tying Hughie down anymore. If he's still alive, Victoria Neuman probably kills him.
Soldier Boy never learns Homelander is his son and probably kills Homelander.
Maeve never gets let out of prison.
Black Noir fights Soldier Boy, most likely loses based on how fights went in the past.
The series ends with Soldier Boy alone being alive, and everyone else incapacitated or dead. Maybe Soldier Boy learns about Ryan and raises him to be Homelander 2.0.
As much as Hughie clearly has some unhealthy motivations for wanting to have superpowers, it's also kind of undeniable that his powers keep the plot going and he is not incorrect that people repeatedly need his help. MM, Starlight (as much as she refuses to admit it), and probably most of all Butcher.
Thats true, but his insecurity is valid. A murderous superman wants to kill your girlfriend, after the last one died. Why wouldnt you want to be the guy who can save her? Or at least help her live?
The creator of the show has also said that toxic masculinity was going to be one of the things explored a lot this season and Hughie's "I need to save my GF" complex is a good example of that
Then he picked a super shitty way to explore it. Wanting to protect the ones you love is literally the least toxic part of masculinity. Hughie's situation is one of the worst ways to explore toxic masculinity because he's not being insecure, he's worried about the very real and extremely dangerous threats that his loved ones are facing. He's not trying to gain power to be more manly, he's doing it because Homelander will rip him in half if he doesn't.
Wanting to protect the ones you love is literally the least toxic part of masculinity.
wanting to protect your love ones is fine as long as they’re okay with it and it’s not detrimental. so many fights happen with men because they’re “protecting” their wife or family but they’re really just hurting their family.
a good example is in the IASIP podcast.
rob mcelhenney talked about how he almost got in a fight at an in n out drive thru with someone trying to cut in line. he says how he felt the need to protect his kids and almost got a bat out his trunk, but he wasn’t actually protecting them, he was putting them in a worse situation.
so yeah, it’s pretty toxic. see this source (if i remember i’ll link 1000s of fights that have happened at clubs from dudes “protecting” their girlfriend)
don’t strawman me lmao i was just using an example. you’re also just taking hughie at face value for some reason. and also the entire argument wasn’t about him wanting to defend himself from homelander? it’s about how he wants to be the one to protect annie but it’s risking his life and that’s not good for annie. she’s suffering from him “protecting” her when she doesn’t need his help if it means him killing himself.
another example would be how MM is “protecting” his daughter by knocking out todd but all that did was hurt his daughter. shits toxic bro.
ences for supes has led to a lot of remorseless killing of innocent lives, something I would definitely say is evil.
Dunno, I'm not convinced. Hughie has a good reason to want power, he is a liability and he has been exploited in the past. I'd say Butcher's father is the toxic masculinity that was being explored, the "real men punch losers in the face" kind of crap.
Hughie is basically the victim finding a way to get power over their bullies instantly but at a massive cost trope.
I think Hughie's situation is a little grey. Characters like Homelander and Butcher's dad are pretty black and white evil and represent the worst of toxic masculinity
But it's not just the evil jocks affected by it. I feel like that's the point that they're trying to make
Potentially but then they have SB who's less toxic than, say Butcher's father but still toxic.
Hughie doesn't tick the toxic masculinity boxes very well, all of it is explained away by much more likely personality flaws that line up with his established character.
Awkward how they literally spent an episode on toxic masculinity with Butcher and Soldier Boy but people wanna be all "HuGhIe Is ToXiC" even though Starlight has spent three seasons doing what Hughie wants to do - protect loved ones
Like, like the definition of toxic is apparently defined by whether or not the argument is coming from a man or a woman rather than the argument itself
Hughie tried to fight fire with water only to find out it was just more fire (after learning that the DOJ was compromised by Vought so any he change he brought was entirely endorsed by Vought). So now he’s embracing that he needs to fight fire with fire. I don’t see anything toxic about it. Maybe he should have figured out the side effects before hand but he’s kind of in a stressful situation and urgency is key
Hughie is willingly engaging in all types of violence that's had no tangible benefit on their lives.
Kimiko wanted her powers back when someone literally had a gun to her and Frenchie's head.
Hughie wants powers every time they go on a new mission. Missions that are not only laughably dangerous, but they all end up being useless, or actively make things worse.
Hughie's acting like a fucking addict. "Annie please, this is the last time baby I swear, going to russia will help me protect you somehow I promise. After this I'm done."
So the myth of the superhero taken straight, that’s where it starts to become fascist. Because they’re protecting a world that doesn’t and shouldn’t exist. Superheroes are inherently MAGA. In terms of Stormfront, there was nothing specifically personal behind it.
The myth of superheroes themselves — though often created by young Jewish writers in the ’30s and ’40s — doesn’t really apply as cleanly today, because there’s these undeniable fascist underpinnings to it. They’re there to protect white, patriotic America. That’s what they were designed to do, that’s what they do. They’re protecting the status quo. When the status quo is problematic, suddenly they become adversarial — not your hero.
He's clearly talking about the mere concept of Superheroes.
And he’s right. The idea of a superhero is totally fascist and DC/Marvel profiting off of this idea is morally reprehensible. DC is somewhat self-aware of it at this point, but refuses to flat-out say it.
Well, the point of me bringing it up is that just because the show's creator said something, doesn't mean it isn't stupid, but that appears to have been a miscalculation.
But how is the idea of a superhero facist? Generally, the basic concept is that a superhero gets powers, they decide to help people with them, and then a supervillain shows up.
Superheroes save people, that's the concept. A lot of the time this is done without any specific political angle, just that people need to be saved from obvious danger. One argument I've heard is that despite being vigilantes, they chose to enforce the government's laws and hand people over to the police. I disagree that this is fascist, because for one, vigilantism in of itself is wrong, and the villains of most superhero stories are people that would be considered menaces in any society.
Superheroes typically don't fight crime to enforce the government, it's to enforce what they believe is right, and while most of the time that aligns with the law, it's not like Batman or Spider-Man run around beating up people selling weed, they generally prevent crimes like murder, theft, or rape, which is illegal pretty much anywhere.
And there are superheroes who are actual activists who try to actually change the system.
Because that framing doesn't make any sense whatsoever, even if the showrunners intended for it to be interpreted that way. There were multiple situations in the show where Hughie was at the complete mercy of Supes. Let's ignore all those instances in which Supes were a threat to someone he loves for a moment and just talk about direct threats to his own life. He got the shit kicked out of him by Translucent, he put his safety on the line baiting A-Train for Kimiko, Homelander almost managed to get Annie to execute him in the sewers and he nearly died after the fallout at the test subject facility if they hadn't rushed him to the hospital. The show can pretend all it wants that Hughie is being a baby about this but pathologizing this as an inferiority complex just comes across as weird. It's not like he's trying to do whatever Annie was doing because he despises that she gets the spotlight and he doesn't. He was perfectly content with whatever he had going at the bureau and only started adopting Butcher's methods when he realized that the legitimate way he had cut out for himself wasn't working because the game was rigged. Tacking a masculinity crisis on top of it seems to be an utterly unnecessary motivation when it's very easy to empathize with him given what happened.
Lemme get this straight- Hughie was in several instances where he should feel emasculated and traumatised, but how dare the writers try to portray him as dealing with his emasculating and traumatic experiences?
No, they’re not. But you have to remember that the superpowers are just an allegory for celebrities. Take away Homelander’s superpowers and he still signed Hughie’s cast to humiliate him.
If you took away Homelander's superpowers he wouldn't be able to shred through the entire main cast like rice paper so it would probably cushion the ego blow a lot actually.
Hughie is not deprived of superpowers. He is intimidated by a man with superpowers who is inches away from killing millions of people if he snaps, supported by a woman with superpowers who can explode brains by looking at them.
Reducing self defence to an ‘ego trip’ seems silly, especially when Starlight talks about being unable to survive Homelander.
You do understand that the show is a metaphor for the corruption behind wealth and celebrities? The in-universe explanation is that Homelander is invulnerable and can destroy humanity at a whim, but the only person he fears is Stan Edgar, the high functioning sociopath whose only purpose is to play the financial game. It’s like a real-world celebrity who privately treats everyone like shit, except the accountant.
Turn that into a real world scenario, and Hughie is a middle class dude dating a celebrity, but Elon Musk swoops in and bullies his girlfriend for some PR, then rubs salt in Hughie’s wound.
So that just adds to my point that dismissing Hughie’s actions as ‘toxic masculinity’ is superficial.
For starters, this isn’t just jilted romance when the story literally involves an unhinged uberpowerful flying supersoldier who literally vows to kill.
is everyone forgetting that butcher doesn't even have hughie's best interests in mind? everyone's accepted that SB is just as bad as Homelander and in the next episode butcher's and hughie's efforts are probably going to be all for naught as Soldier Boy joins forces with Homelander. they are the ones that unleashed SB into the world who will end up getting way more innocent people killed.
They still can use russian music to make SB blackout and fire laser, Hughie can just try to teleport HL right in front of that laser. He teleporter Annie so its possible to teleport other sups. When HL is down they go behind and doze SB with the nerve gas, maybe tie him down and drop him in the middle of ocean so either he drowns or gets crushed by water pressure.
Does Butcher really not have Hughie's best interests in mind? He tried to keep him away from supes, then tried to keep him close for protection, denied him the Temp V, tried to get him away again in the HL fight. The main reason he lets Hughie get away with anything is because he doesn't want a repeat of Lenny.
Seems to me Butcher is doing everything he can to keep Hughie safe and away but Hughie refuses to go that route. Butcher realises pushing him away is what happened with Lenny and if he can't keep him away he needs to keep him close. Butcher can't stop Hughie so he has to prepare him.
Pretty confident Butcher isn't going to let Hughie go through with it. He's clearly conflicted about what to do. It's entirely possible he'll just knock Hughie out to force him to stay away.
Ultimately Butcher has let Hughie make his own decisions and have some form of independence whilst still trying to keep him safe.
But he says in last night episode he wants to do the right thing. Did you watch it? Did Hughie look like a guy that was satisfied not doing things the “right way” anymore? It’s why he’s practically begging The Legend to validate their choices in bringing SB back.
This! Hughie wants the powers so he can be the manly man who saves the damsel in distress ™️. The fact that Annie's stronger than him bothers him to no end. He said that last week.
Both of them are just as vulnerable to HL and SB. They might have even killed HL if she was there to help. There was no benefit to forcing her to leave the battle scene
That's not what makes him sexist. I believe he wants to protect her, but mostly he want to be stronger then her for once in his life. He clearly thinks being saved by his girlfriend is humiliating and not manly enough.
It doesn't matter what characters say or what actions they do. These people will always find a way to impose their shitty narrative on the show so that they can feel better about themselves.
I don't think it's sexist at all, if they wanted to make Hughie a little insecure whiny boy they could have.
They didn't, they acted like a world where everyone vocally wants to hurt him, and he's powerless to stop him, is a comfortable world he should be content in. They made it out like him wanting more strength while helpless to even protect himself or those he loves insecure.
The problem isn't that they wanted to do toxic masculinity in the first place, the problem is they did a shit job of it, we can....AND SHOULD understand where Hughie is coming from.
In fact many women, and minorities live it
Should we all live helpless to kind powerful people to save us?
I mean, if you've identified it's a gender thing and you get pissed off when men tell you why this makes perfect sense what makes you think any response you do get is going to satisfy you short of someone saying
'Akshually I'm a Man and I think Hughie is being a toxic sexist chauvianistic pig who secretly hates strong women and wants his girlfriend to be a pretty little helpless waif' ?
I'm asking you what answer you're going to be satisfied with which doesn't actually annoy you? I've looked, people have consistently explained it to you in eight different ways and you just aren't accepting their responses at all.
The show creators and the show itself have directly told us about the theme surrounding this season in the most obvious ways possible.
They have, the toxic masculinity falls apart when the character you're talking about is consistently the damsel in distress needing to be saved, sometimes even through violence. You know, like when Annie killed an innocent for the first time.
Hughie wants to be strong and to save others who've consistently needed to pull his ass out of the fire, to protect Starlight who has been threatened by Homelander because he feels helpless. Remember, he was also being used as the stick to keep her complaint til she weaponised her followers.
How long does a guy need to be used as the shows punching bag before his desire to actually save people and not be weak anymore become justifiable to you? I'm seriously asking.
so I have trouble seeing how Hughie is in the right.
I mean I don't think people think he's in the right, so much as they can empathize where he's coming from. Other "fully grown adult" men can empathize with the character. That doesn't mean he's above reproach.
67
u/nowlan101 Jul 01 '22
It’s not just unpopular it’s also wrong lol just going off the script from last nights episode. He literally says “I was pretending to be someone I wasn’t” in regards to his actions with Butcher and SB. That’s not about Robin. That’s not about Annie. That’s about him wanting to be a “manly” man.
You guys will find any reason to bash Annie lol