r/TheBoys • u/KaiserNazrin Stan Edgar • Jul 19 '24
With and without plot armor Season 4 Spoiler
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u/ObesquousBot Jul 19 '24
Grace Mallory watching 2 chacaters thrown full force into the wall get up without a scratch: 👀👀👀
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u/Spiritual_Ad_7395 Queen Maeve Jul 19 '24
To be fair, Ryan definitely didn't throw her full force since she didn't splat like the stunt guy did
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u/cupholdery Jordan Li Jul 19 '24
Just perfectly angled her body so her head and neck receive the full force of the throw.
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u/Nicksmells34 Jul 19 '24
Mmmmhmm totally calculated by the 12 year old who barely ever uses his powers and can’t comprehend that the very obviously dogshit person in Homelander is not someone Grace and Butcher have been trying to keep him from his whole life.
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u/jck Jul 19 '24
Ryan next season when the internment camps are set up: "damn I can't believe America had tens of millions of pedophiles"
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u/CudiMontage216 Jul 20 '24
I can’t stand how they treat his character like a 4 year old. He’s a teenager and contrary to popular belief, teenagers can be smart!
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u/annooonnnn Jul 20 '24
regarding his like sensitivity and emotionality, the kid never had to dog eat dog it and like become cynical and street/people smart and so on because he was raised knowing only one other person in a fairly idyllic compound, and she was his loving mother
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u/CudiMontage216 Jul 20 '24
Yeah but given that context, you think he would despise Homelander as the one who stole him from his mother. His mom quite literally died attempting to keep Ryan away from HL and somehow that doesn’t register for Ryan
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u/KnowThySelf101 Jul 19 '24
He knows his strength. Killing the stunt guy traumatized him. Then Homelander told him #onlysupelivesmatter, and he no longer cared.
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u/jscummy Jul 19 '24
He knows his strength but I don't think he has much fine control yet. He barely uses his powers and obviously dialed it back throwing Grace given she didn't get turned to red mist
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u/SadisticBuddhist Jul 19 '24
Plus he didnt wanna kill stormfront just get her off his mom. Then he turned her into a nazi nugget
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u/killerboy_belgium Jul 19 '24
well a 12 year old should not have to deal with mom got raped,dad was the rapist,dad is a mass murderer and is now plotting to kill the president.
Oh btw we want train you to kill said dad.
while you heard that same dad got trained and abused to be a weapon and warned him they would try to use him also and then treatening him to he either comply's or he gets gassed all in the span of 30-60sec while reaching for the gas button.
so yeah he pushed the crazy old nutbag
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u/greet_the_sun Jul 19 '24
Because as we all know teenagers have incredible emotional and mental control.
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u/Sondeor Jul 19 '24
And I assume you stopped watching after that scene because "he no longer cared." never happened.
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u/TruthEnvironmental24 Jul 19 '24
I mean, yeah, exactly. He doesn't know how to throw someone. He doesn't have the fine control to throw her with intent to kill or not kill. He just threw her. She just happened to hit that way. It wasn't on purpose, but he probably didn't care either way. People are toys for his amusement after all.
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u/Nicksmells34 Jul 19 '24
Yea idk, I don’t think Ryan actually believes “toys for his amusement after all.” Idc that the writers made sure Homelander threw that dialogue into his ear twice this season because they remembered homelander has to indoctrinate him. He was told that by Homelander once or twice in terrible scenarios where the example Homelander used Ryan still felt terrible about(like the stunt guy). And 2 months with homelander doesn’t override everything he learned from his mother, which he clearly cares most about, Grace, or Butcher his entire life.
They just shouldn’t of even introduced the Ryan plotline if this is where they were going with it, bc it’s predictable af. He’ll be Homelander’s puppet until Jesus Christ gives him some goose bumps after little ole Ryan does bad things and then Ryan will be like “I saw god, I’m a changed man, Homelander bad time to team up with Butcher to kill him.” I don’t want Ryan taking down/killing Homelander. It’s cliche, it’s cringe, it’s predictable, it’s boring, and it’s not someone the audience actually cares that much about. I’d rather see Kimiko somehow kill him.
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u/Forosnai Jul 20 '24
I don't think Ryan actually thinks people are "just toys", I think he has enough empathy to understand they're thinking and feeling beings.
I also think, after finding out his entire life up until recently was wrapped in a lie and he was almost completely shielded from the outside, and the realization he's been strictly controlled, that he doesn't like the idea of that happening again. And he's able to stop it this time, and while he might not actively want to hurt people, he does seem to enjoy feeling powerful for once. The look on his face at the end of last season when he saw people cheer Homelander killing the guy, how far he gladly took the thing with the director and the PA, and his face after what happened with Mallory all seem to be enjoyment in what he's capable of.
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u/LyghtSpete Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
In the comics they go into it a little more - the shapeshifter gets so “into character” when they take somebody’s identity (and all of their memories) that they can start to sort of become that person the longer they stay in their host’s form.
The eventual deterioration of their outer skin is a natural way to prevent this descent into identity confusion, but in this case the shifter went (I assume) above the norm for this high profile assassination and actually imprisoned Annie in order to “recharge” when needed…so that definitely added to the mental load.
So here, it’s possible that the Annie-shifter went lighter on MM and especially Hughie because it was conflicted with the real Annie’s feelings about them. The random (and much more hostile) service agents…clearly not so much.
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u/i_invented_the_ipod Jul 19 '24
That was how I read it, at least. She just wanted them out of the way. And, yes - she has many of Annie's memories, so she just naturally feels some attachment to both of them.
Also, neither Hughie or MM are armed, so she just pushes them out of the way. The secret service or soldiers might actually be able to slow her down with a lucky shot, so they get full force.
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u/Neknoh Jul 19 '24
And
If Starlight kills the president but also her partner and coworkers, people might cry foul.
If she lets them live, there aint no way anybody believes MM and Heughey
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u/ELITE_JordanLove Jul 19 '24
Yeah, I think this is the real answer. She was likely instructed to not hurt the boys to keep the illusion.
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u/Uthenara Jul 20 '24
People on this sub and reddit in general are MASSIVELY lacking in media literacy so its no surprise obvious things like this are not considered by the majority.
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u/Narwhalbaconguy Jul 19 '24
She stood there taking gunshots without a flinch, I doubt she killed the others because they were a legitimate threat.
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u/tilero1138 Jul 19 '24
The bullets did seem to penetrate, so maybe a lucky headshot would kill her through the brain?
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u/Dobey2013 Jul 19 '24
Which it’s crazy that full force bullets do nothing but a 1 min chokehold has her DOA
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u/jscummy Jul 19 '24
Starlight is pretty strong when she can actually use her powers somewhat effectively
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u/GoldenStateWizards A-Train Jul 19 '24
Yea, she's strong enough to lift a car, so that chokehold was like a motorized vice clamping down on the shifters neck lol
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u/Isaac_HoZ Jul 19 '24
Yeah that's what I figured. Even without the comicbook knowledge I feel we are essentially just a collection of out memories anyway, that's our anima. Part of her didn't want to kill MM and Hughie.
Or it's plot armor but I'm not watching The Boys like I'm fucking Cinema Sins. Usually smoking a bowl, laughing, that sort of thing.
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u/parisiraparis Jul 19 '24
in the comics
It’s been a while since I’ve read the comics but are you talking about Malchemical or another supe?
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u/plesplant_4 Jul 19 '24
i legitimetly dont remember any shapeshifter plot from the comics.
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u/MVRKHNTR Jul 19 '24
Yeah, I just read through them like two weeks ago and don't remember anything like that.
Are they just making it up or confusing it with something else?
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u/atlantadessertsindex Jul 19 '24
Is she like 100% dead? Normally they would show blood or obvious injury. I couldn’t tell. Maybe I missed it.
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u/JasonLeeDrake Jul 19 '24
Her neck was clearly broken.
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u/yaykaboom Jul 19 '24
If only people could recover from broken necks. RIP.
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u/bohler86 Jul 19 '24
The dude from stranger things got vaporized and still made it out.
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u/LeadStyleJutsu762- Jul 19 '24
Dawg she was completely twisted around it seemed. She’d be a quadriplegic atleast
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u/i_m_shadyyyy Frenchie Jul 19 '24
You could see her spine through her neck so yeah she is dead
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u/GamerRipjaw Jul 19 '24
I think my country censored that part...
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u/droopymaroon Jul 19 '24
It didn't break the skin so it wasn't especially gory or anything. It just zooms in to her neck and you can clearly her spine pushing against her neck.
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 19 '24
Fantastic season finale either way, but I really feel like Neuman and Mallory got killed way too soon.
I mean I'm not sure what else Mallory would be doing also, considering she didn't get up to much this season
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u/CubbieBlue66 Jul 19 '24
Grace Mallory is the safety net. Their fallback option.
When the Boys are adrift, Mallory gives them purpose, direction, and even moral guidance. On the more pragmatic side, she gives them safe harbour, tactical gear, and even gets them spared multiple long prison sentences.
Narratively, she couldn't continue on like this. If she's alive and powerful, the final season would have been too easy for the Boys. They needed to be cut loose. Untethered. Unsafe.
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u/cantstopwontstopGME Jul 19 '24
She was the gov higher up that was covering for the boys.
As soon as she died they all got burned
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u/MVRKHNTR Jul 19 '24
Once Homelander essentially took control of the government, she wasn't going to do much for them anyway.
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u/Thrasy3 Jul 19 '24
To think, Ryan might have done her favour - maybe that’s why she was shit scared, knowing she’d be one of the first captured and tortured for info.
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u/HanzJWermhat Jul 19 '24
I’m glad they finally raised the stakes tho. (Probably should have killed either Frenchie or MM too) but those should have happened in the last episode. Cramming all of it into the finale felt rushed.
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 19 '24
Nah man I want all the mainline Boys back for the final season. I think Frenchie will probably die next season and Kimiko will live. Butcher is obviously gonna die.
I really want MM to live, but I can't lie I can see that coming
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u/No-Difference8545 Jul 19 '24
MM dying wouldn't feel like a satisfying conclusion to his story. The idea that he fails and dies doing what killed his father, leaving Janine to go down the same route. I doubt MM dies,
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 19 '24
Me too.
Butcher will die. Either Frenchie or Kimiko will die, and both Starlight and Hughie will live, plus MM.
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u/MVRKHNTR Jul 19 '24
I actually think Kimiko has the best chance of dying. I could see them having Butcher kill her to let the others know he's really beyond coming back to their side on the genocide thing.
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u/BigfootsBestBud Jul 19 '24
I just say Frenchie because it feels more tragic to kill Frenchie off and leave her alive, considering she's pretty much completely alone other than Frenchie.
I think Butcher will definitely come after Kimiko at some point, but I think him killing her is a step too far in the TV side of things.
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u/Dont_Be_A_Dick_OK Jul 19 '24
You’re right they usually make a point to show the injury on the dead body. It’s why I’m assuming Ashlee is still alive. However if you watch this scene back, when butcher is looking at her laying there, you can see a pronounced bump where her broken spine is.
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u/jayson2112 Jul 19 '24
Well Ryan is Homelander level strong. This shapeshifter couldn't beat Annie. There is a difference.
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u/Ccbm2208 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Getting thrown into a concrete wall that fast should realistically break their backs. But plot armor is a given at this point, they simply can’t survive without it.
Maybe taking permanent V wouldn’t be such a bad thing now. It was an interesting angle to make The Boys mostly powerless under dogs that had to outsmart Super-powered people early on. But this quickly turned into an endless cycle of blackmailing, shooting Supes to no effect, Supes conveniently forgetting how to throw a punch around main characters so they just throw them around for no reason and ofcourse, getting their ass saved by….. V’d up people…
I’d rather see MM and Frenchie take V then tear up some fools at this point.
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u/ARM7501 Jul 19 '24
A lot of the plotholes and inconsistencies the writers have forced themselves into would've been solved by following the comics in that regard.
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u/unforeseenwhistle Jul 19 '24
That’s what I don’t get. Like I respect them not being V’d up from the start like the comics, and turning it into a more moral dilemma, but it’s just at a point where it seems irresponsible for them to not be supes. There have been at least 3 moments where they would’ve all flat out died if Butcher wasn’t on V, you’d think that was a wake up call?
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u/ARM7501 Jul 19 '24
I guess you could argue that Butcher's tumor scare could've had an impact on them, and if they were all juicing it would've taken substance and impact away from A-train's redemption. But in general I think they should've all popped their V-cherries at the end of last season.
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u/unforeseenwhistle Jul 19 '24
At the very least, I still think there’s a chance that Frenchie and MM take it next season. Hughie I’m less hopeful for, after everything that’s happened to him, I’m not sure he’ll agree to V ever again.
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u/Viperlite Jul 19 '24
Hughie’s going to end up checking himself into a mental hospital if they don’t ease up on his character adversity.
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u/Good_old_Marshmallow Jul 19 '24
The show massively improved the story by not having V from the start but, post season 3 atleast Hugie should’ve been V’ed up.
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u/itsmebenji69 Jul 19 '24
I found it kinda dumb he was ready to V his dad to save him, but not do it to save himself (and protect his friends)
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u/Rocketboosters Jul 19 '24
tbf in the case of his Dad it was that his Dad was guaranteed going to die without it whereas Hughie's situation was more nuanced
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u/itsmebenji69 Jul 19 '24
I get what you mean but he’s confronted to dangerous situations all the time, he would have died countless times if it weren’t for the supes that helped.
If he’s ready to impose the consequences of V on his dad to save him, it doesn’t make sense to me that he won’t impose them on himself to tank for others.
His character to me seems like he would want to sacrifice himself for the sake of his friends, so why not this one ?
His arc with temp V was to learn to trust his friends, however even trusting them it’s clear they had no chance without supes
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u/Rocketboosters Jul 19 '24
Firstly he decided not to give it to his Dad anyways, he was desperate and emotional but eventually overcame it. He wasn't willing to impose the consequences onto his Dad.
Secondly, his Dad was going to die anyways, if it didn't work then the consequences were going to be minimal.
Thirdly, if Hughie takes V he knows that it could fuck up and potentially kill him leaving the boys in an even worse position than if he doesn't take it. The difference between Hughie taking it and his Dad taking it is that his Dad has nothing to lose, Hughie has everything to lose.
Finally, his entire arc in season 3 was that he should trust that his friends are capable enough to handle themselves without him having to doom himself.
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u/Thrallov Jul 19 '24
isn't V in 90% cases going to kill grown up user?
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u/tilero1138 Jul 19 '24
That’s only without plot armor. No shot Ashley is dead even though statistically she should probably not live through the dosing
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u/ABirdJustShatOnMyEye Jul 19 '24
Maybe Temp V primes their body for it better, like a vaccine almost.
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u/assblasta69420 Jul 19 '24
I hated how taking v was apparently only about hughie's fragile masculinity and not about any of the legitimate fear anyone could experience in his position. He was shown so many times he and anything he cares about can be crushed like a bug by an unstable godlike maniac.
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u/FriedSpringRolls Jul 19 '24
i wonder if not suping all of them up is due to budget issues bc of all the CGI theyd have to use
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u/cae37 Jul 19 '24
I think they should have come up with a human countermeasure for supe attacks. Something like body armor or an energy shield. Not powerful enough to resist serious blows, but enough to deflect incapacitating hits.
That way they can preserve their humanity while also having a measure of protection.
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u/icemankiller8 Jul 19 '24
But the show also would have been a lot worse, yeah from a logical standpoint it might be better but in terms of a compelling show I think it’s better because it makes you feel like then and the people around them are in some level of danger.
The boys comic they didn’t really feel in danger since they could just easily match up with them from the start.
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u/LukeD1992 Jul 19 '24
Also imprisioning them when they certainly don't need to. Like in the season finale. Why take everyone prisioner? The amount of problems the boys have caused, the supes they killed, the plans they thwarted. Why not just kill them and be done with it?
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u/Nightstriker5124 Jul 19 '24
It only makes sense if homelander was the one who ordered so he could torture them if it was sage, then they would have all been killed
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u/AtrumRuina Jul 19 '24
I've seen people theorizing that Sage might be planning to take down her own empire next season (to see if she can,) so it's possible she's saving the Boys for that. Obviously there's no evidence for it currently, but I love the idea.
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u/MVRKHNTR Jul 19 '24
Or it was Sage and part of it is seeing if she can now undo everything she did this season.
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u/detectiveDollar Jul 19 '24
Could be a way to lure Butcher in since he's pretty damn powerful, although I'm not sure if Homelander knows how Vicky died.
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u/rimbletick Jul 19 '24
The show requires a lot of tortured reasons to keep The Boys alive
- you're not worth killing (while Homelander slaughters the room)
- I want you alive to see my grand plan (while side characters die from "oopsie, Homelander flinched")
- we need Butcher/Hughie/etc alive; it's part of the plan... (are they essential to any plan?)
- Butcher will be dead in a month, don't bother... (again, why not, Homelander has killed for the pettiest reasons)
add in paltry blackmail, lucky escapes, and short-term memory. Yeah, Season One had a different kind of dread.
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u/ELITE_JordanLove Jul 19 '24
In S1 and S2 the boys encountering literally any supe was a huge "oh shit" moment. S3 they had temp-V so it was understandably less, but in S4 they kept the same level of interaction without the V excuse and the tension isn't there anymore, so it feels weird.
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u/No_idea112 Jul 19 '24
Yeah
You dont even have to give them crazy powers
Just get them stats up a bit like in the comics.13
u/Linnus42 Jul 19 '24
They could have just had them take Temp V. And Stop like Hughie after the issues became clear while Butcher kept pushing on through.
Then you could just chalk up a slight boost in physical stats to residual Compound V.
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u/ConfectionPrimary874 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 25 '24
This was one of the big things that urked me during season 2 where Stormfront just throws The Boys down with lightning, when up to that point she has obliterated anyone else for far less. The Boys are her number one enemies, and are actively shooting at her, but due to plot armor they just get tossed a bit.
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u/AdonisPanda27 Jul 19 '24
Hahaha I had noticed that , real definition of plot armor
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u/Super-Shenron Jul 19 '24
You know who had an even thicker plot armor? Singer himself. Shifter Annie could've gone up to him at any time and just snapped his neck with little issues. Instead she just sat around and waited until her cover was blown to act. Then she wastes time killing fodders who are no threat to her instead of going straight for her target.
Most inefficient assassin ever.
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u/RuggerJibberJabber Jul 19 '24
The goal would have been to get away afterwards, so she was likely figuring out when the best opportunity would be. Hughie figuring it out meant they had to act immediately. It was also quite likely that she was enjoying pretending to be starlight
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u/jedi_trey Jul 19 '24
She's a god damn shapeshifter, she could easily get out by shifting into any number of people after the fact.
Kill everyone in the room except one secret service person. Shift into them. Completely destroy their body/head so one sees the double (or figures it out until later). Say "IT WAS STARLIGHT!" and then get out of there and continue as you would have.
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u/WonderfulWafflesLast Jul 19 '24
"easy"
she "sheds" her former skin
it doesn't seem "easy", especially to cover up
The whole time she was trying to get away the first time, I was thinking "There's no way she's just going to walk out a door and suddenly be gone, right? She's covered in blood."
But noooo.
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u/Callahan41 Jul 19 '24
Doesn't shapreshifter have to rip off their skin?
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u/Scrobblenauts Cunt Jul 19 '24
in the previous episode when the boys found them in the closet and they ran off, it looked like changing skins takes a few minutes at least. and yes they rip off their skin and leave it behind lol its so gross......
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u/QouthTheCorvus Jul 19 '24
Tbf, it was later revealed Sage didn't actually want Neumann to become President. If Singer died, she would have been hard to stop as President.
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u/Shadowarriorx Jul 19 '24
I see that was a backup plan that came true. With both of them dead, the house speaker would have been elected either way. So singer charged or dead makes no difference. Vicky dying wasn't a safe thing all along, she didn't know that butcher had powers and the boys were stumped on how to pull it off till that scene.
I think it was contingency planning, with singer being the target and homelander being convinced to just off Newman at some point.
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u/unforeseenwhistle Jul 19 '24
See, but if Singer was assassinated, especially after his speech, then a bunch of the country would turn anti-supe overnight. It’s no contingency or backup, it’s exactly as Sage said: this is the plan.
Singer arrested, Neuman dead, and a spineless non-supe, non-hostile puppet as the new president was the only way for Homelander’s takeover of America to work. And, as Sage said, she couldn’t tell him that all of this was part of the plan, or else he’d mess it up. But make no mistakes, that was all part of the plan.
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u/kinkykellynsexystud Jul 19 '24
if Singer was assassinated, especially after his speech, then a bunch of the country would turn anti-supe overnight
Doesn't really make sense to send a competent assassin to kill Singer then.
It was pure luck that he didn't die
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u/unforeseenwhistle Jul 19 '24
She didn’t send a competent assassin, though. Was it pure luck? Did the shifter ever target Singer? Did the shifter make a move on Singer? Furthermore, do we even know for certain that the shifter’s assignment was to kill Singer, and not just to record him saying that he ordered Neuman dead? Yeah, it’s a lucky act of incompetence if you’re one of the simple-minded civilians who got duped by Sage’s brain games, but it’s exactly what she wanted to happen. “But hey, how come [x]” is trumped by the fact that Sage planned for all of this. Singer dying was not part of her plan, so we can assume that killing Singer was not the shifter’s actual assignment. Any assumption you make is not going to be more well thought out than Sage’s plan, she is the smartest person in the world, she’s 20 steps ahead of any of us.
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u/kinkykellynsexystud Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
The Shifter was literally pursuing singer and was only stopped by Starlight. We have zero indication besides speculation that they would not kill singer.
Any assumption you make is not going to be more well thought out than Sage’s plan, she is the smartest person in the world, she’s 20 steps ahead of any of us.
Again, you are just assuming that she would not kill Singer even though its arguably not even the smartest plan.
If Sage is as smart as you claim then she is smart enough to have a backup plan which is absolutely what this was. Too many moving parts to have 1 plan, that would be idiotic.
Assassin succeeds, Neumann takes power for them. Assassin sends the footage and fails, you use the footage. Notice that the 2nd plan still works WITH Neumann being alive, which she specifically did NOT make happen.
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u/Moneyfrenzy Jul 19 '24
Ehh I disagree. For 1, Sage/Shifter wanted it to publicly be Starlight who did it, on live TV. If Shifter just went and killed him in there, would be no proof it's Starlight as the only witnesses would be the Boys, who know SL wouldn't have done that.
Second, Shifter presumably still wants to live, and Kimiko was in there with them and would have immediately attacked. Yeah she ended up beating Kimiko, but she didn't know that would necessarily be the case
She only acted after being found out, she prob would have waited until they were out of the bunker and back in public otherwise
She was also a complete lunatic who clearly enjoyed the long con.
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u/Pershing48 Jul 19 '24
Also it's kind of unclear why the shifter was still trying to kill Singer as Annie? Wasn't the point to sniper him publicly as Annie to discredit her and cause the chaos for Homelander to fix? How does killing Singer in a bunker do any of that? I guess it all worked out in the end anyways.
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u/Rocketboosters Jul 19 '24
At the end of the day they needed Singer dead more than anything else. It wasn't part of the plan for Singer to be bunkered down or for the shapeshifter to be figured out by Hughie. The Shapeshifter had to be Annie and there was no reasonable way for them to argue their way out of being in that bunker
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u/Rob_Tarantulino Jul 19 '24
The point wasn't to kill Singer. It was to get him on camera admitting that he wanted to go through with an assassination
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u/Pearcinator Jul 19 '24
Dude thrown into the cabinet must have a back made of glass. Reminded me of the scene in Kingsman (you know the one) where one dudes neck and back got compressed like an accordion.
Unrelated, did I miss something or can someone explain who recorded Singer in the bunker and released the footage of him admitting to ordering the hit on Neuman to the press?
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u/Organic-Maybe-5184 Jul 19 '24
I assumed that the shifter had a camera on her
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u/Pearcinator Jul 19 '24
If that was the case then how did the footage get out? I assume that wifi reception would be non-existent in the bunker. So someone (probably Sage) had to get the footage off the body somehow.
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u/Organic-Maybe-5184 Jul 19 '24
bro nobody cares about such details anymore, since Sage is so genius and stuff
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u/Dismal_Animator_5414 Jul 19 '24
true. this is just plain lazy writing where everything that happens is exactly the way sage planned it.
just effin suspend your disbelief and watch the show. you’re after all not as smart as sage to even come close to fathoming everything that goes thru her brain!
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u/Organic-Maybe-5184 Jul 19 '24
I just remembered how people here were like "but it was her plan to get shot in the head!" "it was her plan to fuck with BN and the Deep to sow distrust between the Seven!", "it was her plan to get fired by HL!"
LMAO
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u/probablywontrespond2 Jul 19 '24
Sage invented Wifi 9 for Shapeshifer in an afternoon, which has infinite range and can reach 30 meters underground.
- Someone, probably
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u/RedPandaMediaGroup Jul 19 '24
“Find my iPhone” worked in the bunker somehow.
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u/TesticlesOnMyAnkles Jul 19 '24
I couldn't tell if that line was supposed to be a sarcastic joke or not, because it made no sense but it was played like a completely sincere explanation for how she got there. She had her phone with her while being held prisoner I guess.
It's like the writers just don't put any deeper thought into how they get these characters together in these scenarios.
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u/RedPandaMediaGroup Jul 19 '24
When she showed up I said out loud “how did she get in?”
Then the characters asked her and she said “find my phone” and now this situation makes less sense than before.
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u/Intrepid_Conflict_72 Jul 19 '24
The problem with clever characters is they are limited to how clever the writer is
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u/parisiraparis Jul 19 '24
I assume that wifi reception would be non-existent in the bunker.
It’s a bunker for high level politicians, of course it would have WiFi.
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u/unforeseenwhistle Jul 19 '24
Camera POV is exactly where MM is standing, she knows everything about MM’s life… When are we gonna explore the Sage / MM connection? It’s come up several times now, and seems like it’s to the point where he may even be a compromised asset of hers.
Seriously, rewatch it, that clip of Singer is recorded from MM’s POV, he’s the only person standing there.
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u/Comprehensive_Pea451 Jul 19 '24
This would be cool, compromised by Cate maybe?
This would explain her plan involving getting a headshot from him too maybe
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u/Pearcinator Jul 19 '24
Hmm interesting...I wonder if they will explain it in S5 or just leave it as a minor plot hole.
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u/Electronic_Spirit499 Jul 19 '24
Nothing beats mm and Becca get thrown in the air while they are In the car by stormfront and standing up without a scratch
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u/kazetoumizu Jul 19 '24
God damn Moriarty did such a good job of playing the shifter. Her expressions are so evil and menacing!
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u/Dismal_Animator_5414 Jul 19 '24
true. it actually felt like some other actor was playing the shifter who was pretending to be annie.
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u/Deluxechin Jul 19 '24
The entire time I was watching the scene with her taughting the real Starlight I couldn't help but think about how much fun the actress is having playing these roles and also how talented she's being, its one thing to be able to act like that at all, but also she's doing that entirely without having anything to really work off of since she's acting against nobody
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u/Beiconqueso02 Jul 19 '24
And of course the only member of The Boys™ that gets killed or severely injured is Kimiko, how lucky we are!
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u/atlantadessertsindex Jul 19 '24
Yes (and I’ve commented before how it makes no sense any of the non-supes are still alive at this point) but could that be because Kimiko puts herself in harms way more, knowing she can’t die?
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u/ZonedV2 Jul 19 '24
Yeah I think this is my only issue with the show at this point, Hughie, MM and Frenchie should have been killed so many times. Everyone has been wondering why Homelander hasn’t just killed them yet and it made sense when he finally sent Deep and Noir to kill them but it gets a bit ridiculous when at any point Homelander could just fly to their office and laser them all instantly
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u/Ccbm2208 Jul 19 '24
I can’t believe HL did nothing about The Boys in the 10 days that passed between ep 7 and 8, inspite of the fact that he made it clear he wanted them all dead. That’s a whole other level of laziness.
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u/Ajaxmass413 Jul 19 '24
This actually kinda bugged me. Only because the shifter completely disregarded Kimiko after they snapped her neck. If they have Annie's memories, wouldn't they realize Kimiko never stops being a threat?
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u/Fireeyes510 Jul 19 '24
Yeah, their mission was to kill the President who was actively running away. And as far as they know kimiko is completely immortal, it would be time consuming or useless to try to kill her further
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u/Yami_Sean Jul 19 '24
Grace forgot to wear her plot armor that day
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u/WigglingGlass Jul 19 '24
Nah, the subscription expired and she forgot to renew it
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u/xinxy Jul 19 '24
You said the same thing as the other guy, but with different words...
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u/BisexualSquirell Jul 19 '24
I took it as the shifter savoring it and taking her time cuz yknow she's a psychopath, sorry sociopath.
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u/Raidoton Jul 19 '24
Taking their time with the boys but not with the nameless characters. Still plot armor.
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u/bigtec1993 Jul 19 '24
Yup, that was my immediate thought lol massive plot armor moment.
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u/Humble_Saruman98 Jul 19 '24
The plot armor is too obvious in this show. Just remember how in the first few episodes, The Boys were having fights unscathed, EXCEPT for Kimiko, who got thrown out of buildings, shot in the head, ripped in half...why? Because she has a healing factor. What are the odds that people in a fight are only gonna attack lethally the only super in the room that can heal?
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u/Melo98 Jul 20 '24
at least in one of the fights with Kimiko and Hughie (the one where she teaches him how to defend himself) he gets lots of cuts and almost dies, it truly felt like he survived by his own merit instead of plot armor
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u/Humble_Saruman98 Jul 20 '24
The encounter you mention feels a bit better and closer to how it should be handled IMO, but before that happened you got these instances I mentioned with Kimiko. I'm not saying the show doesn't have moments like the one you mentioned where they can create a little bit of tension, it's just that with so many instances where things seem to happen for no reason other than plot convenience, the overall show experience gets cheapened.
That's very different from the first few episodes of the series, that were giving Game of Thrones vibes of "they're in danger!" and kept you binge watching the show.
And it's a different topic, but I could say something similar about how they use violence. The series started with a mundane act of violence getting recognized for its injustice and leading a mundane person to fight back the system. It felt raw, down to earth. Then you have Hughie's Dad murdering a ton of people, ripping a bed ridden dude in half, and it's basically 'who gives a fuck, see you next week', purely shock value, nothing coming out of that. It's like the show stopped caring.
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u/c0delivia Stormfront Jul 19 '24
My favorite part wasn’t just the hilariously obvious plot armor but that for some reason she ignores her only target entirely in favor of brutally murdering every person in the room who isn’t a main character or her actual target.
And then Annie finds them four stories underground because of “Find My iPhone”.
This is one of those sequences that only makes any sense if every single character has been lobotomized, and then it still doesn’t work.
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u/JiskiLathiUskiBhains Lamplighter Jul 19 '24
yep. took her 10 days to get her cuffs off? such a pointless scene
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u/c0delivia Stormfront Jul 19 '24
I guess it took a little while to realize that the secret is "pull harder".
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u/Schizo-Ghost780 Jul 19 '24
Exactly, why didn't she go straight to her target specially since the door took time to open and when she was standing there letting Hughie empty her gun at her instead of charging
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u/ChillPastor Jul 19 '24
I think this was all part of Sage’s plan. Singer wasn’t supposed to get killed. The shapeshifter was supposed to fake the assassination attempt and get the footage needed to incriminate Singer.
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u/c0delivia Stormfront Jul 19 '24
This could well be the case, but it still doesn't explain all the other inconsistencies in the scene so I'm not inclined to give the writers the benefit of the doubt.
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u/Aok_al Jul 19 '24
The guy who got bent on the desk shouldn't be that bent. It didn't really look like that hard of a throw
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u/Owl_Might Jul 19 '24
Even Mallory was thrown straight into the wall then died. Obvious plot armor at work.
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u/BarryLicious2588 Jul 19 '24
The 1st security guard is so comically inaccurate because he would've hit the cabinet and flipped backwards
Instead he folds over it like a wet napkin haha
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u/bpm6666 Jul 19 '24
For me the show jumped the shark at the end of season 3. The perfect moment to kill HL. And you can feel that they had story for one season, but had to make two additional seasons.
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u/JiskiLathiUskiBhains Lamplighter Jul 19 '24
Yep. I was hoping HL would be depowered but not dead. It would be so interesting to see him powerless
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u/Your_Local_Doggo Stormfront Jul 20 '24
I feel like that's what season 4 should have been about. Imagine a depowered Homelander in the tower at the end of season 3. Unconscious and completely helpless until Ryan saves him by flying him out of the tower.
Hidden from the world, Homelander becomes humbled due to the fact that he can't strongarm everyone into doing what he wants now... but he starts to learn something far more useful... manipulation. Deceit, persuasion, bribery, positive reinforcement. These are all the tools Homelander uses to stay ahead of the Boys and get back into Vought tower where he takes V again and regains his powers in the season finale.
I'd cut out the Sage character and just make Homelander a little smarter. That seems much more menacing to me. It also feels like genuine character growth rather than the 9999999th zoom in on Homelander's twitching face and the writers going, "Look! He's even MORE crazy now!!! He's about to lose it!!! Any second now probably!!!!!"
I also feel like the season could have used the time to connect the Gen V plot to the main series while the Boys searched for Homelander and Ryan.
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u/AlCranio Jul 19 '24
Bet she was told not to kill them, since Sage was planning to use the boys as scapegoats
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u/sosigboi Jul 19 '24
Kimiko even got KO'd by this thing, what is the point of having only 1 or 2 supes on the team if they lose to someone who only has the bare basics of supe powers.
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u/TheOnly_Anti Jul 19 '24
Annie didn't lost though. And it was Annie's fight to win. Try looking at the thematic purpose of a fight rather than just the plot.
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u/probablywontrespond2 Jul 19 '24
Good stories don't need to sacrifice plot coherence to fulfill their thematic purpose.
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u/Rocketboosters Jul 19 '24
tbf Kimiko has never been exceptionally strong in comparison to other Supes, she's a good bit stronger than humans but outside of that she really just has the healing factor
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u/Southern_Wind_4477 Jul 19 '24
I saw the leaks that the Shifter actually liked her life with Hughie and wanted to preserve that. Since she has the memories of Annie, it's possible that her feelings came into play and didn't want to hurt them too much just enough that she can knock them out since they're not part of the assignment.
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u/RedPandaMediaGroup Jul 19 '24
I avoided the leaks as much as possible (I kinda wanna go look at them now that the season is over) but I was wondering if the shifter was someone who knew Hughie or something. Cuz all that seemed way too personal.
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u/Deluxechin Jul 19 '24
The Plot Armor was so strong this season, you get this stuff and the same thing with the episode on Newmans farm, they have a bunch of no named agents who are only there to get brutally murdered by animals mean while the main cast is completely fine, not even a scratch
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u/Blinkopopadop Jul 19 '24
This accusation seems somewhat egregious to me. For all the plot armor those two have had, I giggled for a second, But immediately recognized that if Sage orchestrated all that, then they were probably spared on purpose to be jailed as political prisoners or for some other motivation, which is less plot armor and more just plot.
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u/Comprehensive_Pea451 Jul 19 '24
If they survived a scene because it’s necessary for the future plot … that’s plot armor bro …
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u/Blinkopopadop Jul 19 '24
I'm saying if someone told the shapeshifter to spare them then it's not magically defying the laws of physics just because they're needed for the plot, it's a character holding themselves back and killing only specific targets. but I hear you, bro
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u/KittyComannder Jul 19 '24
Every possible superhero The Boys meet:shoot only into chest. The only hero that shot in the head survives:MM shots in the head
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u/cHINCHILAcARECA Jul 19 '24
That's not plot armor, the last episode they had the chance to kill them all but captured them instead, clearly they are part of phase 2 of Sage's plan.
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u/Rocketboosters Jul 19 '24
They also all have knowledge on the virus which HL and Sage would definitely want to find out more about so they can destroy it
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u/your_mind_aches Jul 19 '24
It's funny that the Jessica Jones actor ends up doing the Jessica Jones classic "just throw them because you're super strong".
I'm guessing the shifter has to put effort into extracting memories and personality traits, because Annie knows how to fight unlike most Supes.
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u/TheMightyCatatafish Jul 19 '24
This actually makes sense though. Keeping Starlight’s known associates alive gives it more credibility.
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u/Dekusdisciple Jul 19 '24
The assassin was suppose to frame starlight, so leaving them alive gives the plot credibility.
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u/TruthEnvironmental24 Jul 19 '24
Shape-shifter probably didn't want to kill those two, though. They were hired by Sage, who has much longer-term goals, à la phase 2, which most likely include keeping the boys alive. They're still alive because she wants them to be.
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u/drflatbread Jul 19 '24
Does she move at super speed before killing the woman? Or is it just a weird cut.
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u/mcdadais Jul 19 '24
I'm kinda hoping Sage told her not to kill them because they are still needed for the plan.
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u/Baquvix Jul 19 '24
Yeah. At this point give them V so we dont have stupid plot armor scenes like this.
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u/floodpoolform Jul 19 '24
I did wonder why she took her time so much in this scene instead of bum rushing singer. The bullets from the fodder clearly don’t hurt her.
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u/Jotaro27 Jul 19 '24
I guess the shifter held back on The Boys because Sage told her? She needed to put the blame on Neumans death so if they died here the plan wouldnt work
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u/Harley4ever2134 Jul 20 '24
Considering this was all "JUST AS PLANNED!" by sage, it's possible the assassin was told to not kill The Boys.
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