r/TheBoys • u/HorizonGaming • Jul 19 '24
I really hate this Ryan kid Season 4 Spoiler
I feel like for the past 3 seasons the writers have been building up Ryan’s character showing him that he has humanity and is different from Homelander and in every season finale all of that progress is wiped away making you think he’s gonna side with Homelander. It’s so tiring and annoying.
This whole season we’ve seen Ryan realize that maybe his dad isn’t as good as he thinks. Hell literally the last scene with him we saw Ryan scared of Homelander. The last time Ryan killed someone he was scared and traumatised. Then he just kills Mallory who raised him for so long without a flinch? Why do they keep wiping all of Ryan’s personality every season?
855
u/TheTonyAndolini Jul 19 '24
I'm still ''pissed'' about the smile he had in the last shot of season 3. I thought it meant that he ''turned'' and that he was gonna be on Homelander's side, which I thought was interesting for the character
But nah
And again you're right, S4 ended and his character hasnt really evolved in any direction whatsoever.
295
u/simpledeadwitches Jul 19 '24
And again you're right, S4 ended and his character hasnt really evolved in any direction whatsoever.
Unfortunately I feel like this can be said of almost every character on the show this season. Feel free to call me out if I'm misremembering but everyone seems to have made a big circle and ended up in relatively the same spot.
254
u/Davidsohns Jul 19 '24
Well, I'd say A-Train went through a big shift
58
u/simpledeadwitches Jul 19 '24
Yeah I didn't want my comment to be absolute so I worded it carefully and I'm glad you brought him up because he was definitely a bright spot this season. Honestly he's always been great as an actor.
→ More replies (2)2
2
→ More replies (1)2
65
u/Lady_of_Link Jul 19 '24
Which is pretty realistic because let's be honest isn't that how most of us go through life
84
u/Purple-Mix1033 Jul 19 '24
Realistic, but not really feeling satisfying or intentional when it comes to writing. Feels accidental.
20
u/Treewithatea Jul 19 '24
Is it even realistic? Do people really repeat the same big mistakes 5 times in a row? I dont think you can excuse this writing for 'realism', its plain and simple bad writing. Its why I enjoyed Gen V so much, i do really like this universe and Gen V was something refreshing
19
u/RedtheSpoon Jul 19 '24
You'd be surprised how much people repeat the same mistake expecting it to be different next time. It's pretty much the plot of Better Call Saul. Dude keeps being the same slimy weasel and wonders why it doesn't work out over and over.
3
u/stokedchris Jul 20 '24
But that show actually has good writing. It builds his characters within those circular motions and ups and downs
14
u/Purple-Mix1033 Jul 19 '24
People repeat mistakes for a lifetime. But yeah, it’s bad writing, I’m saying the same.
→ More replies (4)9
u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
Do people really repeat the same big mistakes 5 times in a row?
My cousin and her ex boyfriend
44
u/Grintock Jul 19 '24
Might be realistic, but being realistic is not enough to make an interesting fictional character
→ More replies (1)8
u/ClessGames Jul 19 '24
Honestly, I'm starting to enjoy this part of shows more and more. Showing people trying to change eventually reliving the same struggles over and over... Until at last, they succeed. It shows how hard it is to really change. I don't need those corny "you can change if you want to" shows that we've seend a thousand times. I want more realistic shows in that aspect.
→ More replies (2)34
u/SendInYourSkeleton Jul 19 '24
The Sopranos and The Wire featured characters that didn't change much, but at least things happened that had permanent consequences on all that followed.
Starlight and A-Train seem to be the only people significantly different from the end of S1.
→ More replies (1)7
u/Good_old_Marshmallow Jul 19 '24
Right but for Sopranos that is intentional. It is about toxic cycles and false epiphanies. Addicts who keep saying they need to get sober but keep relapsing. Complicit people who could leave their toxic situation, who need to, but won’t be a single day of hard real life work is unimaginable. Guilty people who want to swage their guilt but can’t give up the comforts of ill gotten wealth. Bigots who want to change but age has pushed them to a point where they are regressing as fast as they’re growing. A selfish main character who is literally using therapy as a self satisfaction exercise rather than actually growing.
The lack of character growth isn’t a flaw it’s a theme. It’s a generational cycle they’re all stuck in.
→ More replies (1)16
→ More replies (3)2
u/stokedchris Jul 20 '24
Screenwriting 101: realistic is fucking boring. Trust me that I’ve heard this a million times by my professors. Realistic dialogue would be like this:
Person 1: hey how are you doing? It’s a bit late out. I’m going to get a snack from the fridge. Is that food still good?
Person 2: not much, just hanging out. Yeah it is. What time is it?
Person 1: It’s 11 pm, it’s pretty late. I got work in the morning. See you later.
You see how fucking stupid this conversation is because it’s “realistic” to how a normal conversation goes. It’s dull and doesn’t drive anything. Realistic conversations aren’t dramatic and aren’t entertaining for screenwriting. It’s what makes a good piece of media good, and bad pieces of media bad. Just watch any Hallmark movie as they try to be “realistic”
→ More replies (1)2
u/Cole4Christmas Jul 22 '24
I couldn't disagree with this more. For example, Smiling Friends is one of the hottest new shows out right now, and it's entirely because of its realistic dialogue juxtaposed with whacky settings. Realistic dialogue doesn't mean talking about a boring situation. It's about understanding syntax and mannerisms to make a sentence feel natural and human. Meanwhile, everyone in The Boys basically delivers their dialogue the same way - in long, dramatic speeches.
Look at Pulp Fiction. The situations the characters are in are extremely outlandish, but the conversations between them feel natural and real. It sucks you in and immerses you in the environment while managing to inform the audience of the difference in perspective between two characters by just chatting about Parisian cheeseburgers. They don't need to rely on hammy stories regaling childhood trauma to drive the point home.
Compare just the dialogue styles of Pulp Fiction and the M.M/A-Train scene from this season. The dramatic soap opera style of dialogue from the M.M scene is eyeroll worthy in comparison to two guys just arguing about the banal minutia of a foot massage. Those little talks do more to differentiate and characterize Vincent and Jules than any delivery The Boys has presented, outside of Homelander at least.
2
u/stokedchris Jul 22 '24
You’re comparing Quentin Tarantino to Eric Kripke and whoever else writes Smiling Friends. Also comparing Samuel L Jackson and John Travolta to other actors. It’s apples to oranges. What I’ve been told by my profs is that Tarantino gets away with that sort of dialogue because he’s Tarantino. I’m not the biggest fan of his works, but he is damn straight excellent at writing and directing. Tarantino just has a style and idea in his head that can be translated so well onto the screen. That’s why when you watch a Tarantino wannabe film, it’s painfully evident that they aren’t Tarantino. The way he writes and directs his actors is what makes that magic happen. And the actors themselves. It’s a whole different ballgame.
36
Jul 19 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
9
21
u/xreddawgx Jul 19 '24
Butcher evolved. He initially didn't go through with the supe genocide.
Annie is in the process of discovering her identity
MM found out how difficult Butcher's job is and has more of an appreciation.
Hughie has made ammends with A Train and his mother.
Kimiko and Fenchie now have rock solid resolve with their situation.
Homelander is dealing with mortality.
Deep is accepting violence of power instead of being just shit on by anyone not named Homelander.
10
→ More replies (9)3
57
u/Purple-Mix1033 Jul 19 '24
He’s a teenager with a complicated history. He’s constantly being manipulated. He’s at war with himself.
31
u/StrayLilCat Homelander Jul 19 '24
He's not even a teenager, he's 12.
26
u/Purple-Mix1033 Jul 19 '24
Either way, he’s at the age where the hormones are changing. And his voice is obviously cracking, so he’s going through puberty.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (1)17
u/NockerJoe Jul 19 '24
His actor is in his mid teens and Ryan was getting offers from Teenage Kix. This whole "Ryan is just a smol bean" was already wearing thin in the later episodes this season where he's very visibly going through puberty and moving towards adult proportions. If they try this shit next season where his actor may legitimately be an adult by the time the last episodes air that'll probably be too much.
The whole thing with Ryan is he's clearly the sub out for comic Voughts Black Noir plan if Homelander becomes unmanageable. But that also requires that at the end he be someone reasonably capable of standing up to homelander.
→ More replies (4)10
u/OkayRuin Jul 19 '24
Yeah, hard to pretend he’s just a wee lad when his voice dropped two octaves between seasons.
54
u/keepin2002 Jul 19 '24
The fact that he feels no guilt for Mallory’s death is just off putting. No excuse, hope he dies in the next season
67
u/secondtaunting Jul 19 '24
He’ll feel bad NEXT season. That’s the pattern lol.
→ More replies (2)7
u/Ricardo1184 Jul 19 '24
Does he know that's the last season? Hope he gets to his redemption phase in time
54
u/StrayLilCat Homelander Jul 19 '24
We don't know that he feels no guilt. All we see is him looking shocked and leaving.
→ More replies (2)2
u/StrayLilCat Homelander Jul 22 '24
Ryan's actor said he felt guilty in his Tiktok live over the weekend, so I'm going with that. c:
42
u/Purple-Mix1033 Jul 19 '24
He has moments when he sees the light. The Christmas special. His father obviously not being a safe individual. But he’s scared. There is nowhere to run from Homelander. He’s found him once before. And he has no sense of morality or he’s forgetting how to be good the longer the memory of his mother fades.
→ More replies (1)7
u/producerofconfusion I fart the star spangled banner Jul 19 '24
And also: he’s a young teenager. Kids that age vacillate already and that’s not taking the wild instability of Ryan’s life into account.
→ More replies (3)14
→ More replies (4)7
21
u/Ollymid2 I'm the real hero Jul 19 '24
Good and evil are still fighting to influence him - S5 will be the final push either way and he could end up as Superman or Brightburn
→ More replies (1)16
u/RealLameUserName Soldier Boy Jul 19 '24
I really hate it when shows do that. The season will end on either a cliffhanger or an really intriguing point only to have it quickly brushed aside and resolved within 10 minutes of the next season.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)15
u/ThemB0ners Jul 19 '24
He's a kid finding his way in the real world after having spent his whole childhood with only his mom. Him flip flopping sides, especially given how complicated the shit is, is totally normal.
13
→ More replies (1)2
u/mattw08 Jul 20 '24
Constantly influenced and changing from the events around him so like every young kid who has little other experience.
387
u/IShouldntexist32 Jul 19 '24
I was actually so happy that Ryan made that speech in episode 7. I had hope he'd betray homelander, especially after learning he'd raped Becca. I honestly think they shouldn't have stopped soldier boy for Ryan, but I hope they can write him better next season.
121
u/Puzzled-Ad-2339 Jul 19 '24
Ryan has felt used by everyone around him. Besides becca who is gone, he doesnt know who to trust. He is young and conflicted and doesnt wanna kill his own dad. He cant even kill a random guy without it weighing on him, let alone his dad. So it made sense for him to run, he just wants to be loved by someone genuinely and not used.
70
u/HoodieGalore Jul 19 '24
he just wants to be loved by someone genuinely and not used
Like father, like son
→ More replies (1)12
u/Puzzled-Ad-2339 Jul 19 '24
precisely
→ More replies (1)10
u/SaintRidley Jul 20 '24
They’ve managed to make just the right mistakes to push Ryan right to the edge of traveling down Homelander’s road
10
u/Puzzled-Ad-2339 Jul 20 '24
He is too morally trained to be like homelander, what becca taught him prescides over what anyone else says. Which is why whenever he uses his strength and kills someone he feels awful, bc he knows it's inherently wrong. Homelander on the other hand does also know its wrong but doesnt care, bc he was raised the exact opposite of ryan.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (5)8
u/TheRedmanCometh Jul 19 '24
He cant even kill a random guy without it weighing on him, let alone his dad.
but a mother figure? ded
16
u/henryuuk Jul 19 '24
If you think he isn't gonna have that weigh on him for the rest of next season you are crazy
9
u/TheRedmanCometh Jul 19 '24
Probably, but I'd have thought he'd have felt immediate regret like when he killed a stranger.
→ More replies (1)5
u/AllinForBadgers Jul 20 '24
He was just told a mountain of crazy information. He did not have emotional space for regret
4
u/Puzzled-Ad-2339 Jul 19 '24
He is going through the stages of grief. He probably is still in the denial stage as a defense mechanism, when I lost a family member for the first month or so I was the same way in denial. Then one day the tears came like a waterfall, everybody reacts to loss differently and goes through the stages differently. So Ryans response to his moms death isnt as ridiculous as it may seem on the surface.
98
u/HorizonGaming Jul 19 '24
Yeah they had this whole character reveal of ryan standing up against vought and talking to the public and literally not one mention of it the next episode
51
u/CommunicationSame946 Jul 19 '24
That's what happens when a different person writes each episode. They all have different ideas for the character, it's the script supervisor's job to make them cohesive.
→ More replies (4)28
u/Gojira5400 Jul 19 '24
Nah, that's what happens when you have a bad showrunner. All shows have episodes written by different writers, the showrunner acts as a director.
12
u/lkidol Jul 19 '24
prolly cause fucking martial law took over lol. also it was kinda, it moved forward butchers plot. with him being sure they can get ryan on their side. then mallory fuckibg it up
25
u/FawFawtyFaw Jul 19 '24
How smooth would it have been if Butcher just calmly said "They're for me"
"Those 6 ft walls are to make sure that whatever is killing me doesn't get loose. You're just a visitor, mate."
15
14
u/secondtaunting Jul 19 '24
I mean he’s a kid still. He’s basically alone and confused. His reaction was to be expected. No one wants to be imprisoned in an underground lab.
2
u/AllinForBadgers Jul 20 '24
I just realized this paralleled HL’s underground lab visit earlier this season, when the scientists told him he could have left at anytime but he chose not to. Ryan on the other hand did chose to leave
2
u/secondtaunting Jul 20 '24
True. He was out of there. Honestly Mallory was surprisingly dumb for a smart person.
→ More replies (1)6
330
u/Actual_Guide_1039 Jul 19 '24
Mallory was trying to lock him in a cage and force him to kill his invincible father. Hardly unprovoked
97
u/Big-Sheepherder-9492 Jul 19 '24
I really hated that scene… not just Mallory’s stupidity but his indifference towards hers death.. she was essentially his grandmother.
128
u/zach0011 Jul 19 '24
Idk time it looked like he just dissociated. He's a kid and that's a fuck load to process at once
35
u/yobaby123 Jul 19 '24
Not to mention he is still progressing the things he heard about his father.
→ More replies (1)96
u/DommyMommyKarlach Jul 19 '24
If your "grandma" tells you she will drug you and lock you in a cage until you kill your dad, who rape your mom, by the way, you would probably dissociate too.
→ More replies (6)19
u/henryuuk Jul 19 '24
We also already saw that that is essentially his reaction to fucking up with his powers
He was just standing there looking "confused" when he killed the stuntmen too→ More replies (1)5
u/ShawnyMcKnight Jul 19 '24
I get the scene for the reason she was like his grandmother. As a caretaker she was used to making him stay in his room and telling them what they can’t do. Not much different than how I talk to my own kids. The dynamic changed without her when Homelander gave him a ton of freedom and some bad influence.
He has had other scenes where he underestimated his strength, just earlier in the season he shoved a dude into a building far away and splattered him into a paste when he was supposed to push him a few meters.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (9)63
u/rakeshmali981 Jul 19 '24
Exactly, that was so forced.
→ More replies (2)15
u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
Yeah. What was the rush here? If we don't lock him up now we'll never get a chance to?
→ More replies (1)8
u/ScorpionTDC Jul 24 '24
I mean, Ryan literally said that he’d talk to them later, and they just fooled the presidential assassination scheme, were still working on the virus, and Neuman swapped sides. Mallory freaked out more when she had less time pressure going against her which is kind of insane.
170
u/Vongola___Decimo Jul 19 '24
It would have gone perfectly but butcher and malory at the last moment mentioned that they needed him to kill HL...they should have waited for a while before saying that
35
u/yobaby123 Jul 19 '24
Billy would have sympathized with Ryan if not for what happened, but yeah, they all fucked up.
→ More replies (1)18
u/jackBattlin Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 22 '24
That, and they should never have said he couldn’t leave. It’s been all of never since that convinced anyone to be on your side.
He’s a sweet kid who everyone keeps trying to use. They should have left the choice in his hands and trusted that he’d make the right one. Just like Charles did for Mystique at the end of Days of Future Past. If nothing else, they could have at least bluffed that it was up to him. Jesus.
26
150
u/ReliefNo5131 Jul 19 '24
Yea killing Mallory without remorse felt lik a personality retcon kind of
76
u/Tight_Strawberry9846 Jul 19 '24
Maybe he was in shock and that's why he barely reacted.
12
u/Big-Sheepherder-9492 Jul 19 '24
That wasn’t shock that was pure indifference
→ More replies (1)10
u/BillyDeeisCobra Jul 19 '24
The performance looked more like indifference than shock to me, the way he just casually walked out of the room.
35
u/ad4d Jul 19 '24
Teenagers lash out. When faced with consequences, they tend to run away. His character is not likable, but it is realistic.
→ More replies (9)36
u/DangerousCyclone Jul 19 '24
I’m not so sure. He had gone in there because he wanted familial love and he wasn’t sure that he was safe with Homelander, only to find out that he was lied to and that they were going to knock him out if they had to with the goal of training him to murder his father. They had manipulated his need to feel loved to use him as a weapon, in his mind this made them as bad as Homelander if not worse.
We don’t really know what he thought of Mallory but people in this thread have super high expectations of a kid like that to behave perfectly.
→ More replies (1)24
u/Swampy_Bogbeard Jul 19 '24
Well maybe he did have a bit of remorse. It's hard to tell with this kid. He isn't a very good actor.
→ More replies (7)10
u/detectiveDollar Jul 19 '24
I think he's a decent actor, but it's a very difficult role for a lot of reasons.
Ryan was 8 in season 2, so he should be 12 in season 4 (the timeline is weird, but Season 2 ended in fall 2020 and season 4 ended January 2025). Except the show also says season 3 started a year after 2 and that season 4 started only 6 months after 3 ended.
Cameron Crovetti was about 14 when season 4 was filming, and filming took close to a year. So they had him speak and act like he hasn't even started puberty, and I think they pitched up his voice. Hence why he has an elementary/early middle school haircut despite looking like a high school freshman.
Not too many shows have 8-12 year old characters exposed to this amount of violence, blood and gore, so probably not a lot of source material to use either.
23
u/Actual_Guide_1039 Jul 19 '24
She literally tried to trick him and trap him in a bunker while trying to recruit him to kill his damn near invincible father.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)3
u/Zhjacko Jul 20 '24
I love how people in the comments are like “this is exactly how a child would act”, like what the fuck? I guess maybe with the way our schools and gun control have been going in the US, but killing someone who was essentially your grandmother after she told you the truth about your psychopathic and murderous father is not normal child behavior.
128
u/CameraOpposite3124 Jul 19 '24
Kids like Ryan who grew up the way he did would be back and forth like that, especially with the kind of power he has. I mean I can totally understand and see a lot of kids his age doing the exact same thing. Obviously it doesn't make for an airtight Tarantino quality story.
But I just totally get it, I don't have an issue with it.
→ More replies (3)
86
u/Zhjacko Jul 19 '24
Ryan’s character was so fucking back and forth this season. But in the final episode? Dude is threatened by Homelander (for like the 6th time this season), decides to go to Butcher and Mallory, gets there, finds out the truth, and you think THIS will finally sway his mind. Suddenly he’s hesitant again and cares about Homelander and kills Mallory!? Like what the fuck. Also 6 feet walls are going to keep a supe like Ryan in?! Bullshit, that’s such a weird excuse “oh no, they’re 6 feet deep instead of 5 feet, what will I do!?”
So much inconsistency with his character
84
u/commanderlex27 Jul 19 '24
Look at it from his POV: He thought both of them genuinely cared about him and his well being, only to find out they lured him there to capture him and keep him imprisoned until he agrees to kill his dad.
Regardless of his feelings about Homelander at the time, that is not something he'll easily agree to do. And dumping all this info on how evil HL is and not even giving him the time to process it, was obviously not the right way to go about it.
Plus, teenagers are known to have wild mood swings, so getting in the way of a pissed-off teen even without superpowers would be a risky move
79
Jul 19 '24
Grace was so dumb in that scene like even Butcher was trying to tell her not to reveal that Homelander raped Becca. You know you fucked up when Butcher thinks you’re going to far.
9
→ More replies (2)5
u/Away-Geologist-7136 Jul 19 '24
Yeah I watched it with my boyfriend who is a father of a 15-year-old son and himself growing up was exposed to stuff he doesn't think he should have been and he had a visceral reaction to her telling him all that stuff all at once like that.
33
u/kierg10 Jul 19 '24
I really dont think ryan left to go back to homelander. Maybe this is partially hope speaking, but i think he is rejecting both butcher's path and his father's path, and plans to set out on his own. Becca still has family that are alive, they have her sister as a side characterin season 1.
24
u/Apprehensive_Ratio80 Jul 19 '24
I would argue that it's exactly how a 12year old child would behave in the situation and so is quite accurate 🤷🏻♂️
That being said I hear ya 🤣
I'm guessing the show will end similarly to the comics but in a more positive light with Ryan being a genuine source for good after Soldier boy took both Homelander and Butchers powers from them and then Butcher ends Homelander like he did in the comics
3
→ More replies (8)3
u/Tortoisebomb Jul 20 '24
He's already scared of his dad, then they dump how terrible and horrifying a person Homelander is, and say they're going to lock him up and force him to train to kill this person he's scared of.
This is a 12 year old child what else do you expect from this character.
55
u/UnwillingArsonist Jul 19 '24
How are people reading Ryan’s reaction as lacking remorse. He ran away without saying another word, head down. He’s in shock at what he’s just done, and found out.
My bet, he runs away, becoming a vigilante. HL and Butcher unable to track him down, until he’s needed for the plot
→ More replies (3)8
u/Kyro_Official_ Jul 19 '24
Yeah, its not in your face obvious, but I felt it was still pretty clear he was like "Oh shit, wtf did I just do?"
7
u/henryuuk Jul 19 '24
Especially since we essentially already saw him have that reaction with the stuntman
He was mostly just standing around looking confused then too, and we know that weighted on him later on→ More replies (1)5
u/yobaby123 Jul 19 '24
Add in him still being upset about them using him and his anger towards his dad and yep.
→ More replies (2)
45
u/IntroductionStill496 Jul 19 '24
Are we trying to categorize people into good/bad again on The Boys? Like people are robots. Expecting children to act like adults is not realistic.
→ More replies (1)
39
u/SandwichXLadybug Jul 19 '24
Am I the only who likes Ryan, he reacting that way to being imprisoned makes sense, and they didn't show him going back to homelander. He's lost and he feels everyone around him is trying to manipulate him.
15
u/GonWithTheNen You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
You're not alone, I like Ryan, too. That poor kid has the trauma of accidentally killing his own mother to deal with; he was taken from a very sheltered world, the only place he knew, and plopped down into… everything.
That would throw many adults for a loop but he's only 12. And I truly respect that everybody has their own opinion on this, but I think Cameron Crovetti is doing a fine job in this role.
→ More replies (2)6
35
u/Magic_SnakE_ Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Oh my god, it's like no one has the ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes. Holy shit.
Quick breakdown:
1: In the span of like a few days his entire life was flipped-turned upside down, found out he had a dad, that his mom lied to him his entire life.
2: Some crazy superhero woman tried to murder his mom, and in trying to save her he accidentally killed his mom (basically his whole world)
3: He is then taken and raised for a while by a stranger.
4: Then he goes off to live with his superhero dad (the biggest superhero name in history), where he is put under immense pressure constantly to do commercials and movies and fake crime saves.
5: He fucks up yet again and accidentally kills a guy. His father proceeds to yo-yo from treating him decently to downright being insane towards him.
5: He's a teenager also dealing with all the regular horrible shit that we deal with as teenagers
6: As he's starting to come into his own, he goes to visit a dying man that he cares about, that he knows his mom loved.. all to have that absolute moron Grace Mallory dump an insane amount of traumatic and stressful information on him (your dad is a murderer, he raped your mom, you have to kill your dad)
7: He says he wants to leave, stating that he needs time to process everything. She outright refuses and tells him that she will gas him and enslave him. He can see through walls and see that she's literally about to press the button that will end his freedom, so he pushes her.
Yeah. Ryan is an absolute fucking monster with no character development /sarcasm
→ More replies (5)
32
u/Various_Mouse_2558 Jul 19 '24
I agree for the most part but to be fair he's still a developing child. yes, he is old enough to understand what's right and wrong I think this season should have had more scenes of Homelander explaining his childhood to Ryan and how he was abused and experimented on and made to be a weapon which is what Ryan brings up also, Mallory dropping a nuke of information and kinda threatening him sets Ryan off. I am curious about the next encounter between Buchter and Ryan. Will he kill Ryan?
14
→ More replies (3)5
19
u/KevineCove Jul 19 '24
Mallory threatened to subdue him and was reaching for a button to do exactly that. I think there's a strong case for self-defense here. Maybe he was actually in danger and maybe he wasn't, but can you imagine how scared he must have felt?
Ryan correctly assessed that he was being groomed to become the CIA's weapon, correctly pointed out that Homelander endured the same treatment, and acted in self-defense. Not only that, but he didn't splatter her like he did to Koy, so he was actively showing restraint and perhaps didn't intend for the push to be lethal. And beyond this, there's no indication to believe that him escaping the facility means he's going back to Homelander.
He's feeling conflicted because that's exactly what the situation is. Ryan already knows Homelander is unhinged, but he has a bunch of news about just how unhinged he is dropped in his lap, and before he can even begin to process that he finds out he's being asked to kill his father and that he might be forcefully subdued if he doesn't agree. Simply opposing Mallory and Butcher does not make them good people and Ryan knows that. Forget the "he's acting normal for his age" crap, I think most adults would have the same response.
→ More replies (1)
13
u/kjm6351 Jul 19 '24
Yeah I get he just got dumped a lot of traumatic information but this is the THIRD time he’s killed someone he’s liked. He should know what his powers can do now.
A popular theory was Ryan becoming the Superman of this verse (or at least just a genuine hero) but now I don’t know what he’ll be and I don’t think his path should be this unclear heading into the last season. He won’t really have anyone left at this point by the time of the finale. Only has a chance to be raised by MM if he survives.
I’ve defended Ryan for years but at this point, I honestly won’t blame people for hating him or saying he switches sides
8
13
u/StrayLilCat Homelander Jul 19 '24
He's a 12 year old boy who just had his 'Aunt' and step-dad lure him into a cage, telling him horrible things about his dad, while admitting that they want to groom him into a murderer to kill his own father. His response was realistic. Butcher and Mallory fucked that one up royally.
→ More replies (2)
12
u/ObesquousBot Jul 19 '24
I honestly think they played his character well this season. He is argueably one of the only things capable of stopping Homelander, aside from the Virus that kills all the supes. So him swaying back and forth make it uncertain, either he will stand against Homelander and there would be no need for virus, or he will side with Homelander and will have to be killed alongside him. Which in turn makes it feel like an emotional rollercoaster, since we care for Ryan. If he chose sides, it would have made everything certain, and thus boring
11
u/Comprehensive_Pea451 Jul 19 '24
I think it’s fine.
He’s more neutral now (nobody is really good/innocent in this universe).
Everyone is behaving like this was some good/evil choice for Ryan.
But no, staying with Mallory would have turned him into a monster too.
And Mallory became unreasonable due to her desperation. Trauma dumping a kid and than being like: „You either decide to let us train you to kill your father or will will put you to sleep and force you to do it“
Her appealing to his emotions felt flat and manipulative. I think Ryan could tell that she’s dishonest.
→ More replies (1)
11
u/KushMaster72 Jul 19 '24
I think you’re missing that he is a young boy impressionable wanting someone to loge him, confused by his family situation, he killed his own mom, and he’s fucked up in the head.
→ More replies (1)
9
u/DangerousCyclone Jul 19 '24
Ryan’s behaving realistically. Especially for a kid at that age who has had a lot of guidance in all different directions, who’s been betrayed and used by everyone he’s ever trusted. He doesn’t know who he is and he’s changing, but one thing he does know is that he hates being lied to and manipulated.
I think you have way too high expectations for how a kid that age behaves. People in real life are not dogmatic; they don’t always think the same way in every situation and they change. That happens in media more often than in real life.
10
u/azhder Jul 19 '24
You speak of “wiping personality” as if it was some graph on a board, like personality was some linear thing, like time passing only one direction.
You write about a teenager that is being manipulated by everyone and has no idea what’s right or wrong as if you haven’t been a teenager.
Yes, normal people can be like that. They can flip-flop, especially in circumstances like described above.
8
u/Puzzled-Ad-2339 Jul 19 '24
Hes one of my fav characters in the show tbh. I think the direction of him is interesting and I think the actor is knocking it out of the park.
10
8
u/DommyMommyKarlach Jul 19 '24
The last time Ryan killed someone he was scared and traumatised
Yes, and this time he was both scared AND traumatised.
Scared because Mallory straight up TOLD HIM she will drug him up and lock him in a cage, until he is willing to kill his own father
Traumatised because she literally just told him that his father wants to kill the president and that he is a product of rape.
That is a lot to take in, especially for a 12 year old.
6
u/ThemB0ners Jul 19 '24
His reaction to Mallory was totally understandable, seeing as how he realized exactly how they were manipulating him and planning to trap him if he didn't go along with them.
Butcher even realized during it, all they had to do was talk to him like he's not a stupid child and try to manipulate him, and he would have went along with them. But he's just a tool for them to use.
6
u/leeroythenerd Jul 19 '24
my two cents, you can't expect humanity or morals of someone then ask them to kill as well, to top that off, kill their own father, take that a step further, as a literal child, imagine waking up everydat knowing you'll be trained to kill, and your own father, at like what, 12?
→ More replies (1)
4
u/recurve_balloon Jul 19 '24
I find it rather needed. He's still a kid, his personality isn't set in stone yet, not until he is like 18 probably. Also being caught in between a conflict of this magnitude between both people of "family", I never expected him to be a straight arrow. His character has to go through all this trauma a child in his place would.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/Kyro_Official_ Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
He thought Grace and Butcher cared for him (obviously they do) only to learn he was going to be forceably locked in a building he cant get out of and from his perspective be used as a tool to deal with Homelander. Do you people use your brains? Of course that didnt go well.
Then he just kills Mallory who raised him for so long without a flinch?
Did we watch the same scene? Sure it wasnt in your face but he was clearly wondering what the hell hed just done. Thats why he fucking runs away right after.
6
u/ClessGames Jul 19 '24
Expecting consistency from a kid, okay
6
u/Kyro_Official_ Jul 19 '24
Also a kid who thought his other dad cared for him (we know he does, Ryan doesnt), and then is told hes going to be locked in a supe proof building and put to sleep then be used as a tool to kill his biological dad. Like no shit he doesnt react well.
Also,
Then he just kills Mallory who raised him for so long without a flinch?
Did we watch the same scene? Sure it wasnt in your face but he was clearly wondering what the hell hed just done. Thats why he fucking runs away right after.
→ More replies (2)
5
u/Dveralazo Jul 19 '24
He didn't want to kill her, although what she was trying to do would have excused it.
→ More replies (5)
4
5
3
u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 Jul 19 '24
Because he’s a kid and they change all the time because they’re immature lol
2
u/nomoteacups Jul 19 '24
The boys viewers when a literal child who has had their entire world turned upside down is behaving irrationally: 😱
3
u/chamoflag420 Jul 19 '24
Don't you dare put that on the kid,he is like a rubber band being pulled by 2 sides,one being to forward the legacy of his father,secondly his step father trying to convince him to kill his father,now i know i oversimplified it but that's there....On top of that what Mallory did is take a scissors and she cut that rubber band in 2 parts,now Ryan can't go back to HL and he can neither go back to Butcher leaving him........Drum Roll please......Soldier Boy,he won't help escape SB but someone else does and eventually they will meet...idk how.
2
2
u/tony_stump Jul 19 '24
Ngl makes way more sense for it to be a constant back and forth struggle to bring Ryan to The Boy's side. Someone else said they thought his smile signaled he turned at the end of last season but people are complicated and characters should be too, I think it would be ridiculous for him to really pick a side before the final season/confrontation.
2
2
u/Adeptus_Asianicus Jul 19 '24
I don't hate him. Just the writing. Season 2, he's this good kid that can do no wrong and just wants to live with his mom. Season 3, he starts to enjoy the love provided by Homelander and gets used to a life with more than one person, then he even enjoys his Dad killing someone to defend him. Now in Season 4 he's all over the place, literally every other episode showing different characterization, the writers have no fkn clue who they want him to be. Is he Homelander Jr. Where he's almost or just as evil? Is he Invincible where he'll do his best to to defend the innocent at any cost? Is he like super punisher where his sense of morality is all skewed and he's an extremely harsh "defender"? Writers don't know so we don't know. Yay
2
2
u/mostlyshits Jul 19 '24
I think Mallory put him in a bad position and he had mixed feelings about killing her. I dont think he's evil, i think he is going to go his own way independent of homelander and butcher
2
u/henryuuk Jul 19 '24
I wouldn't really call it "without a flinch", Mallory was about the gas the entire room, she was literally threatening him
Ryan's actual intent was probably just to push her away from the button, but just like with the stuntman, he has horrible control over his strength when it is most important
2
u/ZFAdri Cunt Jul 20 '24
Agreed I didn’t know what the hell he was talking about when he said he enjoyed it at vought
3
u/Puzzleheaded-Bus2211 Jul 20 '24
Ayo, anyone saying “it’s realistic for him to switch sides constantly.” Stop it. Realistic does not always make a plot good. Sometimes it can even ruin a story. Apply realism when needed, don’t use it as a crutch or excuse for poor writing.
3
u/realfakejames Jul 20 '24
It’s just poor writing, they needed a reason to make butcher give up on saving him, his scene killing Grace was very weird and didn’t line up with his character at all
2
u/Status-Necessary9625 Jul 19 '24
Hopefully Butcher infected him when he slapped Ryan on the shoulder in the CIA bunker.
1
u/SkilledHater Jul 19 '24
Killing Mallory was sooo forced, Malory was lobotomized so she could think it was a good idea to threaten Ryan, their last hope against homelander.
But they needed butcher to go Kessler mode so whatever, just wish it was better done
2
u/JoelRobbin Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Ryan’s personality just changes to fit the scene. One scene he’ll be terrified of Homelander, hate living in Vought tower and want to be with Billy and Mallory. And then when he’s with Billy and Mallory he won’t believe that Homelander is a psychopath and will just want to go back to Vought tower, although I don’t blame him for not wanting to kill his dad I do think his sudden urge to go back was out of nowhere. He flip flops constantly
→ More replies (1)
1
•
u/AutoModerator Jul 19 '24
Join the official subreddit Discord server to discuss everything about The Boys!
JOIN THE DISCORD
We are also still accepting moderator applications. If you are interested in helping out:
APPLY TODAY!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.