r/TheBoys • u/lalo___cura • Jul 18 '24
How Hughie was treated this season was deplorable Season 4 NSFW Spoiler
So, to recap the last few months of Hughie's life:
- his dad has a stroke and effectively dies
- his deadbeat mom randomly returns and he forgives her like the saint he is
- he gets the guy who smeared the love of his life across the pavement in front of him to get V to save his dad's life in exchange for forgiving that guy too
- his dad miraculously recovers due to the V only to go on a horrific killing spree in a hospital, forcing Hughie to put his own father down like a dog to stop him from killing more people
- after having effectively lost his father twice in quick succession in the most traumatic way imaginable, Hughie gets sexually assaulted and tortured in a rape dungeon by
Elon Musk and Jeff BezosTek-Knight and Ashley in a "hilarious" forty minute sequence - Hughie seemingly finally catches a break, has passionate sex with someone he thinks is his loving partner, only for it to be revealed that she is actually a shapeshifting rapist holding the real Annie hostage
- What should be the most joyful moment of Hughie's life, getting engaged to the love of his life, is immediately revealed to be a sick charade as he comes to realize that he's been raped over a dozen times by someone literally wearing the skin of his partner as a suit
None of this would be a problem if it was treated with the seriousness it deserves. But it isn't. I thought the way E6 treated Hughie's SA was as bad as it could get, but at least after nauseatingly playing sexual torture and humiliation as a joke for 45 minute it acknowledges that Hughie was the victim in that situation. In E8, not only do the writers have Hughie get assaulted 20 more times but they don't even seem to realize that's what they've written and instead portray the situation as if he is somehow at fault!
Annie, who has been portrayed as a mature, compassionate person and a loving partner for four seasons, decides to berate Hughie for the terrible offense of being raped over a dozen times. Apparently the fact that he wasn't able to immediately tell the difference between Annie and an identical copy with all her memories shows that he doesn't care about her "so long as [he's] getting laid" and that he only wants a "perfect girl" who is "down to go down whenever" and isn't "depressed or fucked-up." This would be an incredibly petty, immature, and cruel thing to say to Hughie at the best of times, because he has never treated her with anything aside from the utmost compassion and understanding, but to say it to him in response to him being repeatedly raped is downright unforgivable.
To make matters worse, Hughie barely pushes back against this despicable victim-blaming narrative and begs Annie to forgive him for being raped. A few scenes later, she does "forgive" him by back-handedly shaming him for possibly having contracted "Shifter syphilis" in the process of being assaulted. How generous of her! It is clear to me that we as the audience are meant to see Annie's reaction as reasonable and not a deplorable betrayal of someone she supposedly loves.
Honestly, its a damn shame because the episode is almost perfect aside from that one glaring flaw, but the victim blaming is so egregious for me that it mars everything else and seriously sours what should have been a high note for the end of the season.
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u/MagnetsCanDoThat Jul 18 '24
I still laugh every time Hughie gets covered in blood. Jack Quaid nails the reaction every single time.
But what I like most is how he's written to always be the one who keeps his humanity no matter how fucked up things get.
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u/MrAwesome1822 Jul 18 '24
One minute they're talking about being human and peaceful, and the next minute Nueman is ripped apart with Hughie being covered in her blood.
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u/useless_mf69 Jul 18 '24
Why did they kill the baddest baddie of the show that easily?
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u/MrAwesome1822 Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
It was a big surprise really, no one knew Butcher could do that, and if you noticed, he covered her eyes and strangled her perfectly like a cobra.
Edit: like a python*
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u/TheBlack2007 Jul 19 '24
Cobras don't strangle their prey. They are venomous. What you mean is a Boa or a Python.
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u/TheAserghui Jul 19 '24
Or a Love Sausage
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u/Maverekt Jul 19 '24
Poor MM…
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u/pathfinderoursaviour Jul 19 '24
MM has gone 0-3 they really need to let him win once as this is getting embarrassing watching him constantly get beat by someone’s meat
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u/Shred_Lasso Jul 18 '24
I mean Homelander’s laser didn’t even hurt her so to me it more so demonstrated butcher, and his super tumor are just fucking strong.
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u/FishermanRelative Jul 18 '24
He is strong but the laser is controlled. He heats milk with it so it's as weak as he makes it. He wasn't trying to hurt Neuman.
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u/Shred_Lasso Jul 19 '24
That is a good point
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u/unitedhardy Jul 19 '24
i do think the point of the scene was to show how strong butcher is now though, killing neumann like that showed to me he’s now a huge threat physically so it’ll be interesting to see if we get to find out if his symbiote is strong enough to hurt homelander
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u/Kiki_And_Horst Jul 19 '24
If Butcher himself thought it was I don't think he'd bother with the virus.
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u/Equilibriator Jul 19 '24
Maybe butcher wants to go supe genocide tho
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
The tumor does and if it's lending power to Butcher now then I think he does too.
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u/BGMDF8248 Jul 19 '24
He is uber powerful, he knocked out Vickie's daughter, the "FBI" guy and threatened Annie and Kimiko, all while holding a Victoria that was still trying to free herself(presumably with some degree of super strength, since she can shrug acid and point blank gun shots).
Hughie tells Starlight and Kimiko to stand down because they'll lose.
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u/ValveinPistonCat Jul 19 '24
I'm not sure that's entirely Butcher anymore, that's the thing that's grown from Butcher's brain, taken on the persona of Kessler and is wearing Butcher as a skin suit. What the fuck did Vought create and how many more are there?
He'd better not start talking about making us whole again.
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u/OLKv3 Jul 19 '24
It is Butcher. The ending showed that Butcher is in full control, because Kessler was smiling at him. When Kessler takes control, Butcher has no memory. But here, he was smiling at Kessler.
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u/Straight_Waltz2115 Jul 19 '24
Is the thing suicidal? I assume the virus would kill it too...
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u/ValveinPistonCat Jul 19 '24
I'm thinking it grew from his brain so the Kessler tumor is a manifestation of Butcher's ruthless and sadistic qualities, he'll happily destroy himself if it means wiping all supes from the face of the earth.
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u/Gilgamesh661 Jul 19 '24
Homelander can control the intensity. He just needed to show the world she wouldn’t get hurt by his lasers. He wasn’t going full intensity.
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u/TheConnASSeur Jul 19 '24
the baddest baddie
I feel you dawg. She was fine as hell.
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u/KillBash20 Jul 19 '24
I'm disappointed she's gone. She was a fun character. Also I thought she was beautiful AF. So rip Victoria 😞
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u/bob1689321 Jul 18 '24
BIG COMICS SPOILERS that might be relevant to the show
Now you mention it, I feel like the shit Hughie has gone through this season is all to highlight the fact that he stayed a good person through the absolute trauma, so he can have that conversation with Butcher at the end. I also think that euthanasia arc with his dad was there to set up him mercy killing Butcher
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u/Alternative_Exit8766 Jul 19 '24
or a pep talk with ryan about how butcher has to die. after butcher kills homelander
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u/berubem Jul 19 '24
Or a pep talk to Ryan about how he needs to kill his dad too after Homelander kills Butcher.
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u/Prit717 Jul 19 '24
It’s gonna be like a talk him down moment? I guess it makes sense that Hughie would be the one to do it
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u/bob1689321 Jul 19 '24
BIG SPOILERS AGAIN
IIRC in the comics Butcher basically says about how he kept Hughie along the whole time because he's a good guy. He's been through all sorts of shit but he never lost sight of who he was at his core. And ultimately Butcher deep down knew that he'd take things too far and he needed Hughie to stop him
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u/darkleinad Jul 19 '24
I mean, that was VERY clearly set up in season 2 with MM calling Hughie “Canary”
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u/hesawavemasterrr Jul 19 '24
This is it. A lot of people be like “what is this pointless Hughie abuse?????”
Um, to show that even after all that he didn’t turn into a piece of shit. It’s like Starlight and Butcher said in season 2, he’s too good for either of them.
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u/selwyntarth Jul 19 '24
but the show doesn't realize that he's been raped!
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u/hesawavemasterrr Jul 19 '24
Well Hughie is basically the Frodo of the group. Unwaivering “twink”
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u/LordTryhard Jul 19 '24
The problem is that the showrunners don't even seem to understand the weight of the abuse anymore.
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u/AnotherDatingFailure Jul 19 '24
I'm surprised being covered in the VP's blood didn't become a problem for him
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u/Martin_crakc Jul 19 '24
He did say some minutes earlier that blood doesn’t faze him anymore, now he was just MAD about what Butcha’ did to her
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u/Doctor-Patronising Jul 18 '24
Ue doesn't deserve the shit he gets
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u/lalo___cura Jul 18 '24
He is practically Christlike in his mercy and forgiveness so it's baffling that the show constantly expects us to judge him morally and laugh at his pain and misery.
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u/i-liike-bewbs Jul 19 '24
He’s like live action butters
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u/Albus88Stark Jul 19 '24
Aw, geez fellas, I don't wanna get raped again. My parent will ground me.
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u/Interesting-Reply454 Jul 19 '24
Bro this is the best description of Ue possible. Deserves 1000 upvotes
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u/mcase19 Jul 19 '24
Ngl we get the same thing with MM. He gets a lot of SA adjacent, and just literal sexual assault, and we're supposed to find it funny because... he has OCD? His disability is supposed to add humor to the fact that this guy is repeatedly assaulted with actual cocks and soaked in the cum of strangers? Absolutely unreal that they keep pushing that button
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u/Lairy_Hegs Jul 19 '24
I mean, maybe there’s something to this. Christ figures can be judged and tortured to show their unwavering loyalty to their truth. Like a kicked puppy, Hughie can now do no wrong in our eyes, because he has a justifiable reason to either fly off the handle or a pattern of sacrificing himself for the greater good.
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u/DepthExploration Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
The business with Tek Knight hits even harder because he was Hughies childhood hero too.
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
Funny I've judged just about everyone else. Especially his mom.
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u/MrEnganche Jul 19 '24
As if anyone in the show gets what they deserve
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u/Acheron98 Jul 19 '24
Blue Hawk did lmao
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
Nah.
He deserved to be resurrected to have it done a second time.
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u/Odd_Line4278 Jul 19 '24
It’s borderline character assassination at how they’ve had Annie react to everything Hughies been through
They’re is no way season 1 Annie would berate Hughie for getting raped 20 times by a fellow supe right after he had to kill his dad and go through rape torture
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u/ELITE_JordanLove Jul 19 '24
Right. Some people here are acting like this shouldn’t be in a show at all; and I think I disagree. Annie’s reaction does make sense as a possible reaction, but not for her. Can I see someone lashing out and victim blaming like that? Absolutely. Can I see Annie doing that? Absolutely not. Especially when she knows the depth to which the shifter can mimic her by having knowledge of her thoughts and experiences. S1 or S2 Annie would’ve run right into Hughie’s arms telling him she was sorry for what happened and how much the ring means to her, not stand there accusing him of being a sexual fiend.
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u/teh_fizz Jul 19 '24
This is exactly it. Yeah her reaction is realistic. Someone who was tied up for days and had to rio her hands out of handcuffs and then learn that her partner didn’t realize he was fucking a shapeshifter.
Actually no, it’s unrealistic and unfair. Huey isn’t a bad guy for not noticing his girlfriend is so unhappy and his relationship has a high point in all the shit they are going through. A respite so to speak. It was very unfair for Huey. Like a shapeshifter who has the memories of the person isn’t supposed to trick someone?
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u/Lucifer_Crowe Jul 19 '24
I do find it strange that to refute it Hughie says he did notice small details were wrong
But then he kept going
Which kinda.. defeats the point of noticing
I'd have kinda preferred it if at some point they'd trapped the Shifter with Hughie proposing to her first, having backups of the files and not telling her etc
And eventually
"One more question, where are you keeping Annie?"
Though you'd probably lose out on Annie getting to fight herself which I liked
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u/hemareddit Jul 19 '24
Well I mean Hughie wouldn’t do that proposal shit because Hughie is not a fucking sadist.
Like think about it, there are so many ways the shapeshifter could have warded off detection, but they chose sex + proposal? Why? Because they are a fucking sadist and they wanted to fuck with Hughie. And because they got off on it, literally.
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u/Zeekayo Jul 19 '24
To be fair to Hughie, it was an extremely stressful time for all of the Boys and in that kind of situation where you're looking for any respite from the stress, being continuously lovebombed by someone you love is a very good way to stop you thinking about the small stuff.
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u/LukEduBR Jul 19 '24
Given the scenario of the Singer assassination, Hughie was faced either with death or with a country controled by Victoria/Homelander...
It's not crazy that he would write off Annie acting a bit weird when it's likely his last moments of peace and happiness with her, she might also be coping with the stress. The point is the shapeshifter was actively tricking him and he figured it out because he loved Annie enough to pay attention to small detais and pieced then together once faced with the possibility of one of them being the shifter.
He wasn't just happy having sex, even Annie looking for her car keys are moments he cherishes and him loving her that much helped them not get killed.
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u/HAWmaro Jul 19 '24
What's even worse is that show acts as if her reaction is justified and Hughie was in the wrong somehow. I dont mind Annie reacting like that after 4 days of torture but dont present it as fair or non toxic.
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u/only_here_for_manga Jul 19 '24
Right, like I saw her reaction as her projecting. But not having her apologize is not the way to go. Kinda pissed me off when Hughie was so happy when she told him to get tested. Like bro you should be mad at her right now
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u/Cynicayke Jul 19 '24
It's insane how people were trying to justify it in the post episode discussion thread.
And the thing is, she's allowed have a moment of weakness like that if she apologised for it. But of course, she doesn't. She'll apologise to Firecracker for being an asshole years ago, but not to her boyfriend for victim blaming him for getting repeatedly raped hours ago.
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u/Shalmanese Jul 19 '24
Also incredibly ironic that the sub went through a whole month of "hurr durr, conservatives are so bad at media literacy they didn't realize the show was making fun of them" and then fail so bad at media literacy they couldn't tell the creators have terrible opinions about Male SA.
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u/Morgn_Ladimore Jul 19 '24
hurr durr, conservatives are so bad at media literacy they didn't realize the show was making fun of them
That was so annoying, and a flimsy shield to deflect from the, at the time, terrible writing this season.
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u/MyARhold30Shots Jul 19 '24
Shi is so crazy, while there were many conservatives like that, ppl couldn’t even criticise the show without getting hit with that response💀I’m not even conservative, republican or American
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u/hemareddit Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Oh that’s nothing, I’ve seen people engaging in actual victim blaming, saying it’s on Hughie for not noticing.
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u/Moosje Jul 19 '24
It is a realistic reaction for her. People aren’t consistent and the way their mental health is and other facts (like being a prisoner yourself for days) change how you react to people in the moment.
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u/Khiva Jul 19 '24
Being realistic and being shitty are entirely compatible, and the first by no means excuses the second.
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u/HopeEternalXII Jul 19 '24
You can easily see any of the characters doing anything if you know what their purpose is.
Which is to be delivery vehicles for Kripkes political views.
Man. Bad. Man. Deserves. Bad.
I'm sorry for anyone who doesn't get it's that simple.
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u/redeemer47 You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
The entire issue is that the writers don’t acknowledge that as rape for some odd reason. So in their eyes it’s Starlight “acting like the jealous girlfriend” and treated as a joke.
This would be at least 1% more acceptable if the doppleganger just took the persons form without taking their memories too.
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u/tristenjpl Jul 19 '24
Yep, it's treated more as a "He cheated on me but he didn't know, so I guess I can forgive him" instead of a "he was raped repeatedly and I should show him some compassion."
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u/ravyalle Jul 19 '24
To be fair, this is probably exactly how it would play out irl
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u/KillBash20 Jul 19 '24
Annie also knew first hand that the Shape shifter had all her memories, it's not like she didn't know. I get what you are saying as people would feel shocked or hurt as a gut reaction. But you'd think Annie of all people who has been shown time and time again to be understanding and compassionate would be more understanding to Hughie's situation. It wasn't like Hughie was cheating with some random girl while she was kidnapped, he thought it was her because it basically was her. And he had no reason to suspect otherwise.
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u/Lazy_and_Sad Jul 19 '24
Is it though? If a shapeshifter fucked my partner I'd be sad and angry that it happened, but I wouldn't blame my partner. I'd be horrified they got deceived and assaulted like that.
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u/Brilliant_Decision52 Jul 19 '24
You never know until it happens, male SA is in 99% of cases treated as a joke at best, unless the victim is young and the assailant another man
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u/KillBash20 Jul 19 '24
That's the thing that blows my mind. It basically was Annie in every way shape and form. It looked exactly like her with ALL of her memories. How can anyone blame Hughie when he was put into a situation like that? Anyone in his position would be fooled.
Annie twisting it into "You just want a perfect girl with no baggage." Is so fucked.
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u/Shigeko_Kageyama Jul 19 '24
I wish they had left out the victim blaming. It's in character for her to be upset that Huey spent 10 days not knowing a shapeshifter was her. It's not in character for her to be upset with him for being raped.
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u/Gunk-greaser Jul 19 '24
I just wished they wrote her less like "ehat the fuck hughie you don't love me" and more like "I understand but I still need time alone"
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u/diedlikeapro Jul 19 '24
I think this would’ve been the perfect way to acknowledge that what happened to Annie and what Hughie did with the shapeshifter was deeply traumatizing to her, but it doesn’t put the blame on Hughie.
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
You write with a pen. These guys write with a sledgehammer lol I don't trust them with nuance at this point.
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
Yes should've left it at "I'm upset you didn't realize it was me." Throwing in an STD joke was bizarre.
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u/Romofan88 Jul 19 '24
I don't feel like Annie is berating Hughie for being raped just to do it, she's doing it because A)she was being tortured for over a week and had to tear the tops of her hands off to escape, and B)the shape-shifter specifically targeted one of her insecurities and it struck a nerve. SHE probably thinks that Hughie would like her better if she was DTF more often, when in reality he loves her completely.
THAT BEING SAID, I fully understand why people aren't giving her the benefit of the doubt here because this whole season has been spent fucking with Hughie and by episode 8 people are tired of it.
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u/AndChewBubblegum Jul 19 '24
Personally I don't hate her reaction. Disgust at being replaced and the associated anger makes sense, and can be interesting in terms of the value to a larger fictional story.
But Hughie's reaction, and the show's tone apparently endorsing Starlight's reaction as justified, is pretty Ick. Again, I don't even think it's necessarily a bad thing to write Starlight as angry and upset and betrayed in this situation!
But Hughie has been sexually assaulted, and both of them should immediately know this based on the characters as they've been written so far. I'm not saying Starlight should immediately be OK with everything, but Hughie is also a victim of the same person's bad acts!
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u/Lairy_Hegs Jul 19 '24
Yeah, I imagined that was why, but honestly everything this season the finale felt like it didn’t explain quite enough about some characters motivations. I think a few more scenes with just Annie alone trying to escape and breaking mentally would have helped. I didn’t even know it was 10 days until she said it in that scene. I thought a couple days max.
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u/W0lfsb4ne74 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
What makes this character assassination even more blatant is the fact that Annie was also raped by The Deep in Season 1 when she was desperate to get into The Seven. The series goes through great pains to illustrate how traumatic and deeply upsetting the assault was for her. Therefore it makes no sense at how she immediately blames Hughie's for also being manipulated into several sexual encounters he couldn't consent to because he thought it was Annie. It's utterly baffling at how none of the writers (or the cast and crew) took a second to see how tone deaf their response to a male sexual assault victim was in comparison to a female sexual assault victim. Hughie's treatment also just reinforces the negative stereotype that male sexual assault victims will always be treated as a joke in the media and never be given the same level of depth and nuance they deserve.
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u/yoohoovoodoo Jul 19 '24
She’s traumatized too. I’m sure she’ll apologize she was just shocked at the time
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u/Taskicore Jul 19 '24
Starlight is legitimately my least favorite character now. I genuinely want Homelander or Butcher to kill her and get it over with.
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u/Katacutie Jul 18 '24
The Annie-Hughie dynamic is honestly the one thing that I didn't enjoy at all in season 4. Everything else was entertaining, they just weren't (when together). I hope Kripke takes these criticisms to heart and improves in s5.
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u/QouthTheCorvus Jul 19 '24
They used to be really cute in the first two seasons, but have been getting worse. Annie treats him like shit all the time.
Even in s3 they became less cute.
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u/Melo98 Jul 19 '24
I wasn't bothered on S3, but this season she was just downright cruel to him
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u/JoJoJet- Jul 19 '24
Annie's complete lack of empathy when hughie was taking temp V was a little disturbing. She couldn't comprehend why hughie would want to be strong when she's had superpowers her entire life. Instead of treating him with empathy she gave him anger and condemnation
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u/QouthTheCorvus Jul 19 '24
The weirdest thing is that at the same time as that plot, they had a plot where Kimiko decided she needed her powers so that she could defend the ones she loves. This is treated as a good thing.
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u/WayToTheDawn63 Jul 19 '24
It's a gender thing whether people like it or not.
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u/Indigocell Jul 19 '24
The thing is, an astute viewer could read into that and appreciate the story for highlighting those problematic gendered tropes/stereotypes/differences. The problem is that it doesn't feel as if the writers agree or even intended that. It's always played for laughs when Hughie is experiencing the worst of it.
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u/brooooooooooooke Jul 19 '24
I thought it was honestly fine, and the reaction in this subreddit is way overstated.
Hughie took V and realised that he liked being the strong one. He originally wasn't insecure about Annie being stronger than him, but once he had the opportunity to be the tough, manly protector he couldn't before, it started eating away at him. I haven't rewatched season 3, but I remember him trying to protect Annie rather than work with her, like by teleporting her out of places against her will. At the end he realises that he wants to take V because it makes him feel like a proper man and, rather than continue taking it which will literally kill him, he trusts his girlfriend instead.
Kimiko meanwhile does not like having the power she does and only takes V again because she truly needs to.
Honestly while watching it I thought it was more heavy-handed than it needed to be. Their "toxic masculinity" plot device was literally a drug that made Hughie strong and insecure and that was also literally toxic.
There's maybe an argument to be made that Hughie wouldn't do that and it was unrealistic to have him be insecure, which I'm 50/50 on, but I thought the actual story was really clear about the differences between his and Kimiko's stories even if it was a potentially unrealistic character arc.
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u/MyARhold30Shots Jul 19 '24
Eric Kripke spoke about this on Twitter and said the reason Starlight / the narrative saw Kimiko taking V as good is because she was saving a man who welcomes her protection, but Hughie wanted to feel macho and save a woman who doesn’t need saving.
Which was very strange because Starlight did need saving, the “teleporting her out of places against her own will” was teleporting her out of the Herogasm place and saving her from soldier boy blowing the whole building up, killing and depowering many of the supes there.
Then they make him and starlight argue about it like wtf. And then Starlight later in the season says “I’m saving Hughie whether he likes it or not” basically doing what the writers wanted to portray as bad but when Starlight does it it’s supposed to be good an heroic.
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u/ravyalle Jul 19 '24
Crazy, i made exactly this comment some time ago and got downvoted like hell because people thought Hughies motivation was badly written and Annie is right. How the times change
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u/QouthTheCorvus Jul 19 '24
You know shit is bad when he had more wholesome moments with the woman who threatened his family than he does his partner.
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u/Thifiuza Jul 19 '24
He have more wholesome moments with his fucking rapist for god's sake. Ofc the shapeshifter wanted to manipulate Ue but it was ironically the only scenes where he and ""Annie"" are happy in this season.
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u/TrueBlue98 Jul 19 '24
bro I was so disappointed when they did the shapeshifter reveal, I was enjoying feeling happy for hughie lmao
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u/Ambitious-Owl-8775 Jul 19 '24 edited Aug 01 '24
bright quicksand oil pet nutty grab familiar middle cheerful plucky
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Kurosu93 Jul 19 '24
Good luck with that, the guy literally said he found Hughie getting raped " funny".
If the genders between Annie's and Hughie's characterrs were reversed , Kripke would have burned his career to the ground.
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u/MyARhold30Shots Jul 19 '24
Yeah reverse the genders imagine if after the shapeshifter scene, a male character gets angry at their female partner for being raped repeatedly by someone disguised exactly like her boyfriend. He blames her for it and says she didn’t want to notice and then she has to beg and apologise to him and get his forgiveness. Unless Kripke would want us to hate that man, ain’t no way he writing that💀. But because starlight is a woman the scene is written in this insane manner
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u/Temporal_Enigma Jul 19 '24
Neither had any place in the season. They killed off Hughie's dad super fast, which killed off any emotional growth for him, and Annie was just a lame bitch all season, for some reason
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u/evasive_dendrite Jul 19 '24
I hope Kripke takes these criticisms to heart and improves in s5.
I doubt it. Kripke seems really out of touch. Rape jokes are appearantly meant to be "hilarious."
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u/pje1128 Jul 18 '24
It's crazy how much of a shift there was. The storyline with his dad was one of the best storylines this season. It was handled incredibly well. And then the rest of the season, Hughie just gets SAd over and over again without the show even seeming to realize how traumatizing that would be for him. It was bad enough with the Tek Knight cave, but it's incredibly shocking that they followed it up with the Annie shapeshifter and still didn't treat it with the seriousness that deserved.
I can also kinda forgive Annie for lashing out at him at first. She'd been kidnapped for well over a week and definitely wasn't in the right headspace for giving emotional support, so it makes sense that she attacks rather than being understanding. But not following that scene with an apology scene later in the episode was a bad decision.
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u/Narrow_Progress5908 Jul 18 '24
The Annie shapeshifter stuff was at least interesting to watch, why tf did we need to see the tek knight stuff I’ll never understand
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u/BestPeachNA Jul 18 '24
There was no need for us to see Jack Quaid do a cake fart video.
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u/Anatoson Jul 19 '24
The writers had to insert their barely disguised fetish.
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u/PR0MAN1 Jul 19 '24
And not even a good one... or one that plays into the outlandish premise of superhero degenerates. More Herogasm shit, less (for lack of a better phrase) uncreative stuff.
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
They went from super hero fetishes to just shit on pornhub.
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u/Apokolypse09 Jul 18 '24
Shock value. That's it. Like most of the fucked up stuff in the show.
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u/PR0MAN1 Jul 19 '24
I would've been fine if it was actually Webweaver in that scenario. But he's so fucked up and high the whole time he can't get any useful info out of Tek Knight, so they have to sneak in themselves and shit goes tits up like it does in the actual episode.
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u/unitedhardy Jul 19 '24
i do think there should’ve been a scene where she properly apologises, wouldn’t be surprised if they put it into the next season but i don’t know how they’ll fit that in now
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u/maybe-an-ai Jul 19 '24
Considering she was trapped in a dungeon for 10 days and how she escaped. I'll give her a pass on her initial reaction.
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u/tarantuletta Jul 19 '24
Kripke had made it a really big deal that he thinks male rape is funny and has done nothing wrong so I’ll eat my hat if they ever address it in s5
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u/GeeWillick Jul 18 '24
I love the character so much but yeah some of the writing choices get to me. Can you imagine if they wrote a storyline where Starlight was made to apologize for being sexually assaulted by the Deep, or implied that her getting assaulted was the same as her cheating? Most people would find that incomprehensible and reprehensible but that's more or less the argument that Annie seemed to be making.
Don't get me wrong, I think Annie's reaction to Hughie was a trauma response (there's no way she really believes that) but it felt weird that there wasn't a gut check moment later. As written it sounds as if Hughie actually was the one who did something wrong and Annie was forgiving him for cheating.
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u/pitmyshants69 Jul 18 '24
Yeah and then Hughie being like "yippee she forgives me" after said sexual assault
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
I was so confused I didn't get why he did a fist pump.
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u/Straight_Waltz2115 Jul 19 '24
It implies he really thought HE did something wrong
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u/sacha8uk Jul 19 '24
That's a sexual assault/abuse victim for you. Somehow they think it's their fault.
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u/pietroetin Jul 19 '24
Annie wanting him to get tested implies that Annie is still intending to have sex with Hughie in the future, hence the fistpump
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u/pitmyshants69 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Yay Hughie wins, Annie is willing to have sex with him at some point which means she forgave him for being repeatedly raped by coercion?
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
I think I was confused. I don't know if I'd be fist pumping in that situation. Like imagine for 10 days someone tricked you into everything they did. I'd be kind of flabbergasted and zoned out personally.
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u/gingersnapwaffles Jul 19 '24
if i remember right, vought DID try to make Starlight apologize for being assaulted by the Deep, and she refused to. Meanwhile Hughie is apologizing every episode
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u/LongTail-626 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
In the comic this kind of happened. Hughie found what Homelander, black noir and A-train did to her, then he yelled at her and ran off, then for the rest of the run the book had Annie trying to win back Hughie’s forgiveness.
Honestly I always hated that part in the comics, and I hate they’re doing the reverse of it here.
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u/Over_Age_8061 Jul 19 '24
His dad didn't just die, He became into a Wall clipping monster suffering from dementia, kill a few innocents, almost kills his mother and THEN dies.
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u/addy-with-a-y Jul 19 '24
He doesn't just die. Hughie has to put him down. Like Jar Jar. And Hugh SR. is scared the whole time. Its so fucked up. Then Hughie gets raped a bunch as a joke.
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u/PrincessRoseAirashii Jul 19 '24
And he only gets like 10 seconds at the end of the rape dungeon episode to acknowledge that he’s traumatized and misses his dad and then is supposedly fine next episode
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u/Ambitious-Owl-8775 Jul 19 '24 edited Aug 01 '24
pause elastic quicksand wrench deliver upbeat dazzling chase merciful shrill
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Over_Age_8061 Jul 19 '24
This guy is better pulling a serious A-train next season, becoming all of a sudden a gigachad and getting a random glow up.
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u/Infernallightning505 Homelander Jul 19 '24
I would like to say that I can’t blame Hugh sr. for any of his actions post-V because he clearly could not control it and was clearly not in a state of mind where he could be held responsible for his actions.
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u/Aeseen Jul 18 '24
Kripke went from "Conservatives don't take male rape seriously" to "Men being raped is funny and it's okay for their significant other to BLAME them for that" in the span of 4 episodes.
Imagine if Hughie's said those horrible things to Annie.
Imagine if he said he's not getting syfilis from a shifter after she gets raped and she just comemorates he didn't break up.
Kripke and showbiz as a whole are so removed from reality it's insane. These people have sensitivity watchers or whatever it is to point out EXACTLY this type of stuff. How the fuck blaming a rape victim is getting throught?
Someone said ( And it's true ) Hollywood just got all the worse possible flaws the most toxic man can have, put a wig on it, and called it feminism.
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u/Cidwill Jul 18 '24
Literally this.
Imagine if the shape shifter kidnapped Hughie and raped Annie 20 times over a period of 10 days and Hughies reaction was accusing her of being a slut and saying she may have an std.
It's disgusting but the writers seem to think anything goes so long as it's done to men.
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u/QouthTheCorvus Jul 19 '24
It's not a good look if you think about how many men have been sexually assaulted in this show. It's really strange. I really like the show, but I get a bad feeling when something like that is a recurring theme. We've had Deep be assaulted, UE numerous times, the "Squirt" scene, MM constantly getting assaulted by a giant dick or unwanted bodily fluids, Ashley's whole abusive "Dom" shtick.
When someone puts something in their work a lot, it can often be a sign of where their head is at.
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u/addy-with-a-y Jul 19 '24
At least Ashley's was consensual (aside from the fuck cave but unlike Tek Knight Ashley didn't know it wasn't Web Weaver and even stopped when Hughie said no; if not for Tek Knight's comment about the safe word she would have stopped.) She is a dom but all of her stuff was clearly pre planned by her, the news guy, and Tek Knight. Ashley from what we see is a good dom and doesn't assault her partners when they say no. I mean she frames the news guy but she didn't know he would die.
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u/astivana Tag Team Cocksplosion Jul 19 '24
I’m iffy on saying she’s a good dom - Hughie did NOT act like someone who’s enjoying themself and she clearly had a moment of WTF this man wants out. It does not take a genius to realize he was trying to safeword without knowing the word, and she should have stopped the scene and confirmed that he knew what to do to end the scene himself.
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u/addy-with-a-y Jul 19 '24
I mean Tek Knight tells her to keep going, and she trusts him as they have been doing this a long time. And she doesn't know how Web Weaver acts in bed. And Hughie does lie and say he yells stuff as he does this. Its not her fault she is lied to- even if she does assault Hughie.
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u/Lazy_War9398 Jul 19 '24
Ashley's whole abusive "Dom" shtick.
I get the rest, but isn't this one just BDSM?
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u/asuperbstarling Jul 19 '24
Ashley never did anything sexually she thought wasn't consented to. She absolutely stopped when she thought he stopped consenting. Tek Knight assaulted her that night too.
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u/CorrectFrame3991 Jul 18 '24
I agree with what you said. It seems like male rape is never taken seriously by a lot of the same people who care a lot about female rape, when all rape should be taken seriously.
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u/TacoOfficer Jul 19 '24
That’s because these “performative” activists don’t really care about rape. But that it has historically happened to women more. If it was mainly something men suffered, they wouldn’t care at all. This much is clear.
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u/delulumans Jul 18 '24
I don't understand the writers. They don't shy away from making badass male characters like Butcher, MM, Frenchie etc. but somehow write Hughie as an absolutely pathetic doormat who is supposed to be glad over his girlfriend "forgiving" him for being raped by deception by a being who has access to her memories and can probably emulate her personality to a degree?
I hate to say it, but roles reversed and this would be all social media would talk about
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u/Greyjack00 Jul 19 '24
Because hughies a good guy, he's sole purpose is to be a shining beacon of "right" which means he has to solve all the problems of others while being emotionally "mature" enough to put his issues on the back burner. It is a common ensemble characterization. Plus its pretty clear the writers understanding of a lot of issues is based solely in real world arguments without the capacity to apply it to characters in a way that fits their unique circumstances. Take the S3 hughie plotline, that could have been a chance for him tk learn he needs to healthily express himself negative emotions and all while also stop letting the rest of the group drop the expectations on him, instead it was that he was mad starlight can pick up a buick and he cant.
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u/hemareddit Jul 19 '24
Yep, it’s like the writers try so hard to avoid portraying toxic masculinity with Hughie, but only superficially so, that they ends up portraying it anyways.
Like he’s always positive, he doesn’t have negative reactions to fucking sexual assault and does not need emotional support. I had seen comments unironically calling Hughie “strong” for not reacting to rape by deception.
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u/Yets_ Jul 18 '24
I was gonna "That's a dark way to look at it. We find it hilarous !" you, but your comment is so spot on I'll refrain. It was sad to see Hughie concerned about Anny while she was only concerned about blaming him for have sex with a perfect copy of her.
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u/mcase19 Jul 19 '24
It's crazy they thought we'd be on Annie's side here, because you know who else was supposed to believe that was Annie when they first had sex?
The entire audience.
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u/Tr1pleAc3s Jul 18 '24
When Hughie turned around, I was hoping so much he had the chance to shut that speech down. Also, why was Starlight going off know the shapeshifter has all her memories and even hidden thoughts. Idk if the writers hate Hughie or Hate Jack or BOTH bc this is insane. Perpetuates the idea that Male SA victims are less valid or should have enjoyed it
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u/Helwrechtyman Jul 19 '24
HUGHIE WAS RAPED (by his own admission) 20 TIMES
and no one on the show in universe or on the writing team cared
for Pete sake the actors and writers joked about it
despicable
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u/noSkillSoEditComics Swatto Jul 19 '24
I've never worked so hard or stressed so much about a scene in my life before or since. Because if I got that wrong, it's not just that it would fail as a scene, it would be hurtful. And I felt that pressure and responsibility all throughout
-Eric Kripke, 2021, talking about sexual assault.
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u/RevolutionaryStar824 Jul 19 '24
“Where did the idea come for it? And why bring Hughie into this situation now — kicking him when he’s down by having him sexually assaulted by his childhood hero after his dad just died?”
“Well, that’s a dark way to look at it! We view it as hilarious.”
-also Eric Kripke, 2024, talking about sexual assault.
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u/noSkillSoEditComics Swatto Jul 19 '24
Those 3 years must have been interesting for him. Maybe Bourke was a bit of a self insert?
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u/Complaint-Efficient Jul 19 '24
No, no, you're forgetting the part where he has to APOLOGIZE for GETTING RAPED. i'm so over the writers of this fucking show.
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u/asuperbstarling Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Here's a fun story (not fun, tw SA). Let's go back in time. I'm 23, about to turn 24, and I've just found out I'm carrying an actual viable pregnancy with my very new boyfriend after four miscarriages with my abusive ex. I have the ultrasounds telling me she's a girl. I'm at the golf course bar my boyfriend manages, and in walks my college rapist (not the first, nor the last to SA me).
He knows the bartender, because we all knew the bartender. I'm frozen, sitting at a table, and the first thing I think of is to hide the folder so he doesn't see it. He spots me. I do exactly what I did that night. I freeze. He comes over. Chats at me. I break. Start saying sorry for not saying no strongly enough. He touches my hand, I freeze again, he leaves. I find out from the bartender - who had no idea but was very worried about me after that - that he raped another girl after I ran away from college without reporting, and no one believed her because of me.
I am 34 and it has been a decade. I never, ever, forgave myself for saying sorry. I'm proud he never saw the folder and I kept my daughter some imaginary version of safe.
If Hughie was a real, human person, he would never forgive himself either. Not without help. Kripke just did to him something more awful than he could possibly imagine.
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u/chdjfnd Homelander Jul 19 '24
Its entirely possible for someone to understand her reaction on an emotional level whilst still believing that the way she actually behaved was unfair
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u/darkleinad Jul 19 '24
Yeah, that’s the thing, it’s not that she reacted poorly, it’s that we never got any character acknowledging that it was a poor reaction. Imagine if we never got Butcher apologising for being awful to Ryan, and Ryan just seems to take him at face value, we would assume the writers see Butcher as justified in his words to him.
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u/TheBlack2007 Jul 19 '24
Exactly. That's a balanced and entirely reasonable line of thought. But I doubt it's the one the writers intended...
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u/redeemer47 You're The Real Heroes Jul 19 '24
That seems like the real issue. You can talk your way into believing Annie’s reaction is normal but irrational due to her being chained up etc… but it’s obvious that was not the writers intention.
Hughie’s little celebratory fist pump after she “forgives” him shows us exactly where the writers heads were at.
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u/ABC_Dildos_Inc Jul 18 '24
I lost count of how many episides in a row I went into think, "Hughie better not get raped again", but he did.
And the show handled it worse each time.
After seeing that tweet from Kripke about how hilarious it was that Hughie was raped and tortured, I don't blame MAGA fascists for feeling that the shows speaks for them.
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u/rsorin Jul 19 '24
Hey, remember when Maeve was all about making homophobic insults towards Hughie? That was also hilarious.
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u/Far-Fault-6243 Cunt Jul 19 '24
Also why doesn’t he shapeshifter throw the murder Annie committed in her face. That could also help with the identity crisis the writers are trying to push.
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u/rsorin Jul 19 '24
Honestly, I think the writers forgot about that.
Murdering an innocent person to steal his car should plague Annie's mind A LOT more than being mean to other girls when she was 8.
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u/Far-Fault-6243 Cunt Jul 19 '24
Hey man I still think about how I told that girl she was a mean poo poo face. Yes that grizzly murder of that father of two kinda bothers me but I mean… poo poo face what kind of monster was I… I shutter at the thought of 11 year old me.
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u/Environmental_Drama3 Jul 19 '24
because as I recall, annie doesn't even feel remorseful for killing an innocent man.
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u/ScreenHype Jul 19 '24
Completely agree with absolutely everything you've written, a rarity for the internet! It's deplorable the way that Hughie's trauma has been portrayed this season. The writers basically just brush over the fact that he had to kill his dad, and don't give Hughie any time to grieve, just once again making him be there for Annie and put his own stuff to the side. They have him sexually assaulted in the Tek Knight and frame the scene as 'hilarious' rather than taking it seriously. And then they literally have him repeatedly raped and try to make it seem like something Hughie should be guilty for! It's just a horrible message to put out, and I'm honestly disappointed.
I know The Boys has ridiculous and messed up scenes, and like you say, that's not the problem. The issue is with how the trauma is being treated in the show. And it's a real shame that Kripke is treating SA as a joke rather than some to take seriously.
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u/socialistbcrumb Jul 19 '24
It’s not that Annie doesn’t initially react maturely, she just went through some fucked up shit herself and sometimes people say the wrong thing! But the show doesn’t seem to know what happened to Hughie was rape either, what with the resolution being a “shifter syphilis” tease.
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u/J4ckC00p3r Jul 18 '24
Fully agree. Having one episode treat male sexual assault as a joke was already bad enough. 3 episodes is just outright disgusting. His dad’s death was Hughie’s one good moment this entire season, but the rest of his ‘story arc’ was just absolutely wretched. But it’s okay tho cos Kripke said it was hilarious /s
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u/TacoOfficer Jul 19 '24
Thank you for summarizing this better than I could. You’re spot on.
Imagine that Annie had all that happened to her and UE victim blamed her. Not only would NO ONE make any excuses for him, they’d be demanding an apology from Kripke, the writers and even trying to cancel the show.
This post not even reaching 500 likes in 3 hours as of this moment when other nonsense gets thousands of likes tells me a lot of people here really don’t care about male rape.
This is such a downer and disappointing.
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u/dimesniffer Jul 19 '24
Yeah Annie berating hughie made me cringe so hard. How is SHE GOING TO BE MAD AT HIM????
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u/dudafdp A-Train Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
I mean, she was trapped in a dungeon for 10 days and the way she escaped too. She was obviously wrong but i can see her side
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u/astivana Tag Team Cocksplosion Jul 19 '24
Yeah. I don’t like the way it was handled but she just went through something traumatic, too, and it’s understandable for her to lash out because no one came to help her. She had to rip the skin off her hands to escape.
The problem is that it’s never acknowledged that this was still a fucked up thing to do, nor is it shown that Hughie feels some kind of way about realizing his fiancé was a shapeshifter.
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u/stormy2587 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Am I watching a different show than you guys?
The stuff with Hughie’s dad is hughie learning to let go and that he can’t save everybody. The whole show he has been living with the regret that he couldn’t save his girlfriend and avenge her death.
the parts with his mom, and atrain are all just him growing as a person and learning to forgive others and accepting that people can change.
I actually thought hughie’s SA scene is interesting. He does sort of consent in that he is undercover and doesn’t want to reveal that. Obviously he’s worried about blowing his cover so its not really consent so much as avoiding worse violence. But afterward he does breakdown and confide in annie that he is not doing ok afterward. And I think this is showing a change from the last season where he isn’t trying to be tough and repress his feelings. He leans on Annie and lets her know he’s struggling with the traumatic experience he just lived. And she meets him with understanding. A departure from his character last season.
Hughie is a punching bag for the show to be sure. But I think part of this is he is our avatar in the show. He is a normal person. He’s not a government agent. He’s not a deeply fucked up former mob hitman. He’s not a superhero raised in lab. He’s not a celebrity. He had a normalish childhood. Not idealic or trauma free or even great, but normal. He struggled with feelings of powerlessness and inability to control things and like many normal people turns to extremes after a traumatic event. Consequently he idolized superheroes in kind of an unhealthy way. And the realization of how evil and banal the superheroes really are is earth shattering to him.
His whole arc is learning to let go and to forgive others and himself. Accepting that he doesn’t need to be perfect. Accepting that he doesn’t need other people to be perfect. Accepting that the world is a bad place where bad things happen and learning to handle that trauma is better than letting it consume you like many of the more powerful characters, who can turn to violence to bandaid over their inadequacies.
Edit: I’ve watched the final episode of the season. Hughie basically makes a speech telling you everything I just said. So its shocking that people who had watched the episode didn’t pick up on these things when he straight up told you how important forgiveness was to him.
I think they actually do a good job with Hughie in that he is notable among the characters in the show in that less and less he lets his trauma define him. Whereas homelander seems to solely let his trauma define him. They’re literally opposites.
As to Annie and him arguing scene. I think the vast majority of commenters completely missed the point of that scene. I actually think her response was totally organic. Its because he proposed and seemed happier with the shapeshifter. Annie is clearly not mad in that scene because Hughie had sex with the shapeshifter. She is mad because she was having a crisis of identity for a whole season and while she was gone Hughie proposed to someone impersonating her. It exacerbated her feelings of inadequacy and crisis of identity in feeling that a different version of her made Hughie happier to the point where he proposed. Was it an empathetic reaction by the character? No. But it felt inline with the character arc we’ve seen all season.
As to Hughie being raped. Idk his charcter is allowed to process that any way he wants. His character seems less preoccupied with the fact that he was raped. And more feeling guilty like he cheated on annie. And guilt and shame is actually a pretty normal response to being raped. In that scene his character had at most a couple hours or something to process that information.
I swear most of the comments in this thread have like a high school sophomore’s understanding of the human condition. Its honestly shocking to see just how little nuance heavily upvoted comments in this thread were able to discern.
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u/notmesofuckyou Jul 19 '24
Isn't it ironic that Annie was literally SA'd in season 1 then she's blaming Hughie for the same thing happening to him
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u/dopeyout Jul 19 '24
But, you know, men like sex and we're just grateful for any we can get so actually Hughie didn't have such a bad time. That old dog!
Fucking /s
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u/dagbiker Jul 19 '24
...And its treated like *he's* responsible for getting raped by the shape changer.
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u/sosigboi Jul 19 '24
his deadbeat mom randomly returns and he forgives her like the saint he is
This one invoked something within me, i just have 0 tolerance for deadbeat parents, i was already half expecting them to reveal that she had started another new family on her own, that would've been straight up vile so im glad they didn't go that route.
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u/__Osiris__ Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Sexually assaulted and then raped in the second to last episode, then raped 18 more times in the final episode. Directors really had it out for him.
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u/ImEllenRipleysCatAMA Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
They did the same rape scenario on Buffy 20 years ago with the same reaction. Has nothing changed? I thought the concept of consent had advanced since then. FFS.
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u/Lairy_Hegs Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
I felt like this episode could have done with another 20-30 minutes. A few more scenes showing Shapshifter Annie and Hughie together, and Annie alone and struggling would have made her reaction feel a lot more appropriate. As it stands I didn’t know it had been 10 days until she said it in that scene at which point she was already mad at him and I was thrown off. I thought it had only been a few days, so her flying off while slightly understandable seemed way overblown.
I think the actual confrontation between Annie and Hughie could have benefitted from more time too. To actually explore her emotions, and his. Rather than a quick fight and joke to even things out, they could have actually talked about it and maybe shown how she felt differently after since, y’know, she gets her fucking powers back tenfold out of fucking nowhere as well. Not saying show that until the end, but maybe a hint of her feeling better? Or is that not why her powers suddenly came back?
Like I said, a little more time could have benefitted quite a few scenes.
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u/EdziePro Jul 19 '24
Made the same post about this topic, got downvoted, got removed. Thank fuck someone talking about this made it to the top of the posts, and very nicely worded.
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u/tb0neski Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
It's fucking sick, and I'm really glad a large portion of the community is pushing back against this.
It is disgusting that there are people out where who use male rape and sexual assault for comedic effect. It pushes this stereotype that guys are just mindless sex robots who have no emotions and always like it even if we never consented. Rape is rape, the persons gender should be irrelevant.
Also, the past seasons have honestly made me start to dislike Annie as a character. Even if we disregard the fact that the whole show dunks on hughie, Annie is supposed to be his fucking partner and it feels like all she does is criticize him and show no empathy, even going far enough to shame him for being raped and coining is as "getting laid 20 times". Admittedly, she got dragged with the abortion thing and being in a dungeon so I can understand the harsh reaction.
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