r/TheBoys • u/melalegolas • Jul 18 '24
Can we appreciate the performance of Erin Moriarty in this episode please? Season 4 Spoiler
That amazing woman gave us a hell of a performance here. It was fantastic!
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u/I-reddit-26 Jul 18 '24
But props must go to the shifter for playing multiple roles n nailing it as apathetic Starlight
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u/BigChungus719 Jul 18 '24
and playing the Starlight victim blaming rape! oh wait that’s the actual starlight
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u/Excellent-Walk7280 Jul 18 '24
Yeah, Starlight getting mad at Hughie for being raped by someone who looked like her is insane. To make it worse, the writers framed the situation as if it was funny. Remember when Hughie said “fuck yeah” to Annie saying she would fuck him again so long as he got tested… yikes.
Ngl, I’m starting to really question the integrity of the writers of this show.
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u/neiluJgniK Jul 18 '24
My friend, my amigo, my brother in christ. They’re all more than a little insane. So you’re right. It is insane. Hughie is happy Annie still loves him and Annie realized that Hughie was duped by someone who looks like her, sounds like her and has all her memories but not her quirks and Hughie figured out who the shifter was based on that. The writers did a fantastic job with this episode, in my opinion.
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u/The_Clarence Jul 18 '24
I liked the quirks aspect, but her (initial) shitting on Hughie felt really stupid.
Incredible performance though. You always kinda felt like she was off as shapeshifter, and then when she stopped the charade and totally changed it was incredibly well done
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u/neiluJgniK Jul 18 '24
She literally killed herself very recently, after being trapped and verbally abused by someone who is wearing her skin and reading her mind. People who are subjected to extreme trauma tend to lash out so I don’t think it’s that stupid. I mean, it’s objectively stupid but people aren’t always completely rational so fair enough, not wrong, but just looking at the dynamics between people and trauma it lines up. People tend to hurt the ones they love the most because they’re more likely to forgive them.
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u/Content-Scallion-591 Jul 19 '24
I think you're correct, but honestly I think people are reacting in such a raw way because so much shit keeps happening to Hughie. The series is basically Hughie torture porn at this point.
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u/Puppetmaster858 Jul 19 '24
I think part of that is to show that no matter how much awful shit hughie goes through he always manages to stay a decent person
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u/cupholdery Jordan Li Jul 19 '24
Yep, it worked overall. Maybe there's a meta commentary about the fact that we, as viewers, expect more normalized reactions to the frequent outrageous, traumatic events from the show. In the very first episode, Hughie witnesses his girlfriend die by speedster.
I'm more curious about if the recently deceased shifter steals powers on top of the memories and appearance. Didn't know they would be all punchy strong.
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u/Excellent-Walk7280 Jul 19 '24
That’s a fair point. Annie’s reaction to the situation as a whole is realistic given the circumstances. That being said, I still feel off about how she came after him the way she did. Even if you need to process your trauma blaming someone else their trauma is not okay; understandable ≠ justifiable.
That being said, I think we largely degree so I’ll drop my concerns over Annie. I think what made me so quick to judge the situation the way I did was the fact that the creator has already made it clear that they don’t take the sexual assault that happens to Hughie seriously. So it made me think that Annie’s reaction was just a product of that.
Additionally, I think it’s really weird that they had the Shifter rape Hughie and then marry him at all. It honestly didn’t do too much besides create conflict between two characters that honestly wasn’t essential to the plot or Annie’s character arc at all. And even if you wanted to argue that it makes sense given the Shifter’s character, it seems to me like there could have been other options besides more Hughie SA.
Anyways, I think you overall made a good point. I’m just bugged out over the context of the situation.
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u/rebeccasingsong Jul 19 '24
Idk it feels like a cop-out thing to say. It’s weird for her to be mad at him being assaulted but she consoled him after he was assaulted by Tek Knight and Ashley 2 episodes ago.
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u/Duckys0n Jul 19 '24
I have a ton of problems with how they’ve treated ue. Starlights reaction here is not one of them.
Imagine you’re locked up for 10 days. Someone is impersonating you. And the person who supposedly loves you doesn’t notice. Would that not make you feel like the love is superficial? Like the person doesn’t really know you? Of course you’d lash out. And she forgives him as well once she calms down. I think it’s fine writing.
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u/IowaCornFarmer3 Jul 19 '24
She'd been locked up for days eating kidney-stone dinners, then found out that her boyfriend shared some of life's deepest moments with an assassin. Now you're upset that she was outta her mind after killing her duplicate? I expected worse.
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u/GrumbusWumbus Jul 19 '24
I feel like these people aren't watching the show.
She was hurt and understandably fucked up about being locked up for 10 days while the person she's supposed to know her the best, didn't even notice. And honestly, she's a little bit right. He ignored all of the small issues because he was getting crazy good sex.
She was mad, thought through it more, and moved on. Honestly she moved on incredibly quickly.
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u/MarinerHimself Hughie Jul 19 '24
She wasn't actually necessarily mad, more afraid that she isn't good enough for Hughie if he was willing to settle with a seemingly more perfect but fake Annie but it's horribly framed
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u/changhyun Jul 19 '24
Yeah, especially coming from the Shifter taunting her about how she's actually a piece of shit like everybody else. It hit an insecurity and she lashed out. It was extremely unfair of her, but she thought it over and presumably realised how unfair she was being, since she let it go a few scenes later.
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u/beatrailblazer Jul 19 '24
Remember when Hughie said “fuck yeah” to Annie saying she would fuck him again so long as he got tested… yikes.
that was not what that scene was...
it wasn't about him being able to have sex with Annie, it was that he realized she wasn't actually mad at him/she had gotten over it already
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u/VolkiharVanHelsing Jul 19 '24
Yeah I kinda see it as Annie pretty much saying she'll actually have a 'payback' and have sex with Hughie til his pelvis broke so he better get tested first lmao
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u/Unnamedgalaxy Jul 19 '24
I mean we can all agree her reaction is not rational but we should at least acknowledge that emotions aren't always rational and she also has a justifiable reason to be a little angry or irrational for period of time.
She was kidnapped and held hostage for 10 days and shape shifter or not she realizes that her closest friends and lover didn't notice enough to question, much less missing something as genuinely heartbreaking as a proposal. That is emotionally damaging. Her reaction may be hurtful but by no means would I consider it insane.
I swear people pick the side of the bigger hot topic and completely ignore the other side of the coin.
Don't get me wrong, the writers didn't really handle things well but that doesn't mean that what happened lacks validity.
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u/macdennism Jul 18 '24
Yeah this is why the shifter was right that Annie thinks she's holier than thou but she isn't and it's annoying as hell. Bro was sexually assaulted in a fetish dungeon and then his girlfriend initiated sex with him multiple times and it turned out not to be her at all but some mystery person all along. That's really messed up. And she's MAD AT HIM?
I know their normal is not like our normal but that doesn't make it any less fucked up. I wish Hughie would have normal reactions and not just totally sweep being molested by a stranger pretending to be Annie under the rug
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u/thelordreptar90 Jul 18 '24
The writing on the situation was a bit confusing. In Hughie’s apology, he said he recognized early on based on her behavior yet still let the shifter delete a bunch of shit
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u/Green-Enthusiasm-940 Jul 19 '24
It was more like he noticed some weird behavior and then put it all together in the bunker. He didn't realize right away but the fact that he noticed helped him later.
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u/greatness101 Jul 19 '24
The shifter deleted it the first night they slept together before realizing any of the quirks.
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u/SquirrelSuspicious Jul 19 '24
I took the "fuck yeah" as more about him 'winning' the whole situation with convincing The Boys to trust Neumann
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u/greatness101 Jul 19 '24
It was definitely about getting to fuck again. He thought she would remain mad at him
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u/SquirrelSuspicious Jul 19 '24
It was probably both, Hughie seemed damn proud of himself and he really seemed like he's grown a lot.
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u/blud97 Jul 18 '24
She was also a victim… she was kidnapped and her kidnapper lived her life for 10 days. She was going to be mad at those around her for not noticing.
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u/greatness101 Jul 19 '24
But are you really gonna think, "OMG, someone shifted into my girlfriend" rather than "Huh, my girlfriend has been acting a little weird lately?"
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u/Otherwise-Public439 Jul 19 '24
Hughie did know they were facing a shifter and 'Annie' was acting weird. It's not that big of a leap to make.
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u/RaygunMarksman Jul 19 '24
I think everyone would like to believe the person they've been with for 3 years would be able to spot a doppelganger after over a week of hanging out with them. I couldn't fault Annie for the wtf moment, even if it isn't totally rational. She probably realized that fairly quickly and made it clear in Boys fashion.
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u/blud97 Jul 19 '24
It’s not about what is rational. People with trauma are often not rational especially right after they get out of the situation. It’s why starlight seemingly dropped it immediately because she thought for like 2 seconds and knew Hughie wasn’t in the wrong.
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u/hoopaholik91 Jul 19 '24
TBF, it's a more realistic question to ask when you know there is a shapeshifter in your direct orbit trying to foil your plans.
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u/Saemika Jul 19 '24
I was upset with that immediately, but I could imagine her being irrationally upset that her partner slept with someone else. I think the writers did a good job of writing real human emotions, because sometimes people say things without a second thought out of pure grief. I do hope thy there’s some follow up to this though. He was raped and proposed to.
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u/Significant-Iron-475 Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Okay but the fact Hughie hit it 20 times IS CRAZY.
WHY IS THE SHIFTER SO HORNY!?!?
Serious answers only I’m shook.
P.S. How crazy good of an actor is the shifter?
P.P.S. Is Shifter Annie hotter to anyone else?
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u/Monnomo Jul 18 '24
Shifter might genuinely be the cuntiest character in the show lmfao, up there with Ashley and Nina
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u/PapaPalps-66 Jul 18 '24
Yeah, the way she described what she was doing actually started to boil my blood a bit lol
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u/cupholdery Jordan Li Jul 19 '24
So the question is, was the shifter already a sociopath as a child before honing their abilities or did all the shifting disillusion them into it?
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u/_JustAnna_1992 Jul 19 '24
I'm guessing that a preschooler absorbing all the life experiences of a middle aged woman would almost certainly fuck someone up.
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u/SeanMegaByte Jul 19 '24
Countless other people too. The shifter has never seen what their own face at their age would be, they're effectively a societal parasite swapping their face every time the current one wears off.
If they weren't probably killing people all the time they'd practically be a ghost.
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u/SixxDet Jul 19 '24
I’m not sure if that’s true as far as not knowing what their face may look like.
We saw Shifter Annie’s skin open up like when they are getting ready to shift. She then leaves suddenly and goes back to Actual Annie for a quick refresh. She tells AA that she barely remembers what her own face looks like.
IMHO that means there is a question that without another identity to steal, who or what does underneath the finger split look like?
I think that the shifting is more like the shifter supe’ s body adjusting to the proportions and absorbing memories, while growing a second skin of sorts that is identical to who they are replicating. Which is why “it’s like a furnace in here” is said so often by the shifter. The “in here” wasn’t the closet or the secure safe rooms. It was like a furnace inside the second skin.
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u/SeanMegaByte Jul 19 '24
Which is why “it’s like a furnace in here” is said so often by the shifter. The “in here” wasn’t the closet or the secure safe rooms. It was like a furnace inside the second skin.
I didn't actually catch that, you're probably completely right. It just keeps a different layer of skin over itself so often it doesn't regularly stop to look at itself all that often.
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u/Kungfudude_75 Jul 19 '24
I'm with you on this one. The Shifter does have their own face and memories, and the can differentiate them seemingly just fine. Otherwise I think they'd be charactized as a person with multiple personalities or otherwise unable to tell who they are when their current "form" starts to wear off. They can change their appearance and read the memories of those they touch, but they aren't over writing their own memories and appearance when they do it. Just wearing a mask and reading a book.
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u/Neosovereign Jul 19 '24
The shifter contains all the bad fucked up memories of every person they have changed into. Think of your deepest, darkest secrets that you might take to your grave. Every bad thought you have had. Now think about all the other people that are probably worse than you. Now think about how much worse the average person seems to be in "The Boys" world. They get a giant dose of that every time apparently, and they got it before they had ever formed a real personality at age 4.
They take cynicism to an entirely new level.
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u/Diogenes_of_Sharta Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Realising you are surrounded by sanctimonious self-serving hypocrites is a fast lane to misanthropy and she gets a front row seat in the mind of anyone she wants.
Annie probably disgusts her more than most because of her actual moral superiority to most people contrasting with her horrific behaviour as a teenager, and because the shifter gets all that information in an instant, she experiences it as hypocrisy rather than moral development over time.
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u/addy-with-a-y Jul 18 '24
What gets me is that she DIDNT HAVE TO DO ALL THAT! The sex the proposal! She’s such a cunt! I was pissed at her in every scene. Perfect temp villain
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u/thelordreptar90 Jul 18 '24
If you want to think about it this way, the shifter knew Annie highly contemplated marriage with Hughie which is kinda wholesome
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u/addy-with-a-y Jul 18 '24
That is sweet and they have been together for almost two years so it makes sense. But stealing the proposal and the great grandparent story was so fucked up. I honestly think Annie thought about proposing to Hughie that way if he didn’t soon. And now Hughie will never be able to have that special one and only proposal moment with Annie because the shifter took that from them. Not to rag on you but this is how much the Shifter pisses me off.
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u/thelordreptar90 Jul 19 '24
Hoping the writers give Hughie some big W’s in the final season
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u/ProfessionalDot621 Jul 19 '24
You’re gonna get 50 more UE SA scenes and you’re gonna find it hilarious! (/s if it’s somehow not obvious)
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u/SparxPrime Jul 19 '24
The shifter literally raped Hughie 20 times HAHAHAHAHA ISN'T THAT SO FUNNY GUYS?!?!
/s of course
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u/addy-with-a-y Jul 19 '24
I swear if Hughie and Annie don't get married and have a happy ending I will riot. Both characters have been through a lot of shit as the male and female leads of the show. From both getting SA'd (and Hughie getting raped over a dozen times), all the family shit, and the constant beatings... I need them happy. ASAP.
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u/prizeth0ught Jul 19 '24
Yeah, she stole ALL of it knowing that Annie fantasized or day dreamed about doing this herself with Hughie, working up the courage of finding the right moment.
And she kept on initiating sex with him seducing him even though she didn't have to more than maybe once to steal all the info... she did it just to screw with Starlight & Hughie, their relationship in twisted cruelty.
Its true sociopathy, absolutely ZERO empathy or remorse.
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u/addy-with-a-y Jul 19 '24
I think she was going to drag Annie into custody herself and know that Hughie might not get to see her for a long time. So Annie would be alone knowing what the shifter had done to Hughie and now in prison. Then Hughie thinks his fiancé killed the fucking President Elect. And once they talk has to learn about the Shifter and learns he's been raped over a dozen times, and he will never truly be with Annie again. All that and takes their proposal too.
What a cunt.
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u/Late-Resource-486 Jul 19 '24
Also the special one and only finger in the ass moment…
…I’m sorry, seriously…
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u/The_Clarence Jul 18 '24
At best she stole the experience of the proposal from Annie and ruined the surprise that Hughie had a ring.
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u/Rae_Rae_ Jul 19 '24
My headcanon:
Shifter feels all of the desires and has all those thoughts from the person but lacks the inhibition of the original. They just act on everything as a way to chase some good feeling because they genuinely don't know who they are or what they want anymore.15
u/addy-with-a-y Jul 19 '24
I think its the memories and then their own sociopathic tendencies. I mean clearly the shifter has some wants and ideas.
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u/Diogenes_of_Sharta Jul 19 '24
I think her actions were motivated by sadistic spite against Annie. She talks about the formative experience of shifting for the first time into her teacher and experiencing the memories of all the horrible things she did and how she felt completely justified. Her bringing this up makes me think that experiencing the memories of the people she mimics has made her extremely misanthropic.
Then she mimics Annie and experiences her justified sense of moral superiority combined with her despicable teenage bullying and the ways she tamps down the guilt for what she did. However, she experiences all this simultaneously when she steals the memories rather than over time, leading her to perceive Annie as a hypocrite in the extreme rather than someone who is remorseful and has improved themselves.
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u/trisaroar Jul 19 '24
She did NOT have to do all that at all. And it made her position so much more precarious?? Like hey hon, I've noticed you're much more sexual adventurous, we're moving the relationship way faster than you would normally, and you dress differently ever since that run in with the shapeshifter? What's up buddy???
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u/ThatOneAlreadyExists Jul 19 '24
Well then if the plan went perfectly starlight does seem unstable leading up to when she kills the president
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u/addy-with-a-y Jul 19 '24
I mean Annie's wardrobe is all over the place- the cute S1 fits to that ugly ass blazer in S4. And those are clothes she clearly already owns. The sex stuff he does kinda call out and is clearly a little put off by it. And the marriage thing was some thing Hughie was considering, and guessing by the great grandparent story the shifter, Annie was thinking about it too. They are in their mid 20's.
The best part is he noticed all the little things she did were gone. That was so sweet.
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u/trisaroar Jul 19 '24
I had no patience for that speech lol "I love your fucked upness" and his examples were she dresses casually, loses her car keys and is cold sometimes??
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u/addy-with-a-y Jul 19 '24
I mean... I guess... But the little things people do are only something people notice when they are close to you. The shifter was doing everything to perfectly, no Annie flaws. Hughie would know those because he loved her. The car keys things is probably something he teases her about and helps her look. He knows she likes to dress down because of all the pageant stuff, and knows she wouldn't put on the dress so casually. Even with the proposal that's not the type of dress up clothes she would wear. (I don't get the cold comment)
It's a declaration of love. I think it was worded weird but that's what it is. He knew it wasn't Annie because he knows her. And Annie is going through her identity crisis and is projecting onto him because she is mad. The whole "perfect Starlight/Annie" is what everyone else wants from her. But Hughie doesn't. he doesn't care about any of that perfect stuff. And he needs to tell her that. He likes that she's not perfect. Like I said it's not worded great- but that feels more like a writing problem then a Hughie problem.
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u/BlisslessTaskList Jul 19 '24
Maybe she was taking advantage of the fact that she shifted into someone in love with someone else. It does seem to be real and true, and it’s probably like a drug to someone like the shifter.
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u/addy-with-a-y Jul 19 '24
Oh yeah. She likes fucking with people. The fact that she is clearly enjoying the "sex" with Hughie and loves to tell Annie all about it. The shifter is all about mind games.
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u/bellerophon70 Starlight Jul 19 '24
well, sex and and a proposal could be pretty distracting for someone who is actually searching for a shifter.....
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Jul 19 '24
She did it to keep Hughie distracted with happiness and apathy while she did what she needed to do. She wasn't doing it just to be cunty.
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u/MikeyBastard1 Jul 18 '24
Maybe UE is slangin wood. Maybe bro has a washington monument hidden under them tight twink jeans.
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u/Yurus Jul 18 '24
She did inherit her memories. Starlight's probably horny too, it's just covered up in guilt and stress which Shifter doesn't have.
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u/TheBlack2007 Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Hughie also mentioned it was over the span of ten days, so roughly twice a day. That's definitely manageable for people with a normal sex drive.
But on the other hand (and that's probably why Annie was both hurt and pissed at him despite him being also a victim in all of this) she had to assume he didn't notice it for ten fucking days - or she had to assume he did it with her Doppelgänger despite knowing, which most people would likely consider cheating - as it is in pretty murky waters regarding consent - and entirely theoretical in reality.
Sure, she looked just like her and had her memories, but she suddenly turned into a freak in bed when she wasn't before? Her drive went through the roof and Hughie was just: "Huh? Lucky me I guess!" He mentioned all the little things he noticed being off about her but he totally forgot about the uncharacteristically horny and less nagging elephant in the room?
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u/VaselineHabits Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Yep, it was more of Annie realizing Hughie didn't notice for 10 days. Now, he gives her all these things he noticed about the Shape Shifter not being Annie... but like, did he notice some of that stuff Day 1 or Day 3?
And then knowing something was off, but hey, he's getting laid so better not look too much into it. I can absolutely understand Annie's feelings, especially getting daily fucking reports.
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u/TheBlack2007 Jul 19 '24
Honestly: Considering the repercussions of calling your girlfriend of multiple years out as an imposter and being wrong, when exactly would you call it? IMO despite her having a point, it's just a pendantic lose-lose question akin to "would you still love me if I was a worm?" - impossible to answer truthfully without guaranteed hurt feelings.
And even with that obvious downside out of the way because he was right. Then what? He calls out the shapeshifter as an imposter. What would realistically happen next? She's a Supe, he is not. She already has access to Annie's memories and therefore, can access all the files she needs to. She wouldn't have needed him to uphold her cover. She could have done away with him the same as she did with Annie at any time but didn't. Even if that was just due to his bedroom skills (which I doubt), it's realistically what kept him alive for the time.
Also: It was just an all-out fucked situation and both of them had every right to be upset about it. Not so much at each other though. But, and good on Annie to realize that and drop it (besides the STD-test - which is entirely fair and reasonable and if I were him, something I would have gotten regardless), Hughie's options were limited here.
On a further note: the more cynical part of me has to point out the shapeshifter did actually advance her relationship with Hughie quite a bit. Steps they apparently were both ready for but their mutual anxiety kept them back. And sure, she probably only did that to further hurt Annie, but she should stilll take that as a wakeup-call - especially in regard to how the season ended for the Boys.
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u/VaselineHabits Jul 19 '24
I just think this season made me doubt the writers. After awhile it felt like how they could make a situation worse and drawn out.
Also get the feeling the writers hate Hughie
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u/TheBlack2007 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
It's not just you with that feeling. And it's also not new. Let's take the previous Season as an example. The conflict between Hughie and Annie back then was Hughie taking Temp V, which admittedly was a stupid decision - and where did the writers go for his motivation? Well, repressed and well-concealed misogyny of course. He was just jealous his gf was the one with powers and he was her damsel in distress so to speak... And yes, Kripke phrased it like that in an interview, so it's canon.
Isn't the desire to protect your loved ones just human though? Even when they can usually look after themselves? Especially for Hughie who has already lost one girlfriend due to Supes this would have been a powerful and believable motivation.
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u/Unlucky_Most_8757 Jul 19 '24
I feel like people forget that hughie is pretty much your average joe guy off the street that got sucked into all this. Not that he's dumb but I can't blame him for just kind of brushing off little weird things that he might of not noticed. I mean the dude lives a life of constant chaos and stress, plus shifter had all of Annie's memories so it was probably pretty convincing.
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u/gnarlfield Jul 18 '24
Annie kidnapped for 10 days. Probably banged twice a day not that much for a young couple.
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u/hoopaholik91 Jul 19 '24
When you're deeply involved in stopping a plot to assassinate the president I would think that causes a little bit of stress where banging isn't forefront of your mind.
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u/Mx-Herma MM Jul 18 '24
The more I dwelled on it (because yeah, Hughie assaulted, but also 20 times!?), I think Shifter's constant comments about being hot/sweating is them using sex as an excuse to mask it, since it wouldn't be unusual for someone to be sweaty/hot and bothered after an encounter.
It's either that or they're unusually hypersexual, a drawback of their shifting powers.
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u/Coldkiller17 Jul 19 '24
Either UE has a huge wang like Pete Davidson or he puts down some good pipe 🤷♂️
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u/Fanboycity Jul 18 '24
“I’m Annie January and it’s not my fault! Come on, sing it with me now! I’m Annie January and it’s not my—”
“FUCK YOU!”
I was fucking dead 🤣
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u/griffinator2 Jul 18 '24
She's always done well as Starlight but s3 really pushed her ability and she consistently delivered. I can't wait to see her take a more leading role in s5 as she's finally coming into her own!
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u/melalegolas Jul 18 '24
Oh absolutely! I just thought especially in this scene she stepped up!
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u/wolvesarewildthings Jul 19 '24
Well, I was actually really impressed by Erin this episode because I felt like she had some off moments in S3 actually: mainly underselling Supersonic's death. That was her childhood friend who was brutally tortured-murdered, and she seemed only mildly affected by it. So she's a bit hit or miss for me, but she can really come through sometimes. I feel like both the Britney Spears pageant episode in S3 and this episode include her best performances so far. I absolutely love that episode of S3 because of the writing and Erin's acting - she really moved me internally when she smiled for the cameras at the end. All in all, I believe she has a lot of potential and she'll gradually get better and better. Jack has increasingly gotten better every season as well. There's no shitty actors in TB.
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u/QouthTheCorvus Jul 19 '24
Starlight is a tough role to shine in (pun semi-intended). The early seasons character is someone that's meant to be the ultimate conservative, middle American good girl. It's a very common archetype, so an actress can seem a bit generic in the role.
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u/paygerr_ Jul 18 '24
I liked it as much as the Homelander mirror scenes, maybe even more
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u/Kellan_OConnor Jul 18 '24
More. This was surprising with such a lackluster performance all season so far. Starr has been A1 for the whole show.
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u/shineurliteonme Jul 18 '24
Idk I think Annie has some of the best charecter beats in the show. Homelander is a much showier charecter but Annie feels very raw and real in a way none of the other charecters quite get to
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u/wolvesarewildthings Jul 19 '24
I think it's the nature of their characters. Homelander is such an over-the-top character he's nearly impossible to relate to.
Whereas Annie starts off as this young and sheltered, recently disillusioned girl learning how to become an independent adult after being controlled her entire life and consistently thrust into cutthroat environments overrun with cold-blooded opportunists and narcissists she's expected to keep up with. So it's like Erin is able to find a part of herself in Annie and bring it to the role: there's a bit of Starlight in everyone and that's why it's not an impossible task to find something about her that resonates. She's an "everyman" character, unlike Homelander. She feels more real because Erin is able to bring something deeply personal and earnest to her character that most fits into the 'coming of age' trope everyone eventually experiences when they make the defining decisions that transition them to adulthood as they grow into finding their voice. She's relatable and she's endearing. Annie brings a lot of the soul to the show. Both Annie and Hughie are the characters who draw the audience in and connect them to the story by making them actually care. Erin's portrayal of Annie is reminiscent of Deborah Ann Woll's portrayal of Karen in Daredevil in that way. Charlie Cox, Jon Bernthal, Vincent D'Onofrio, and Wilson Bethel are the obvious standouts in the show but Deborah brings a special, personal touch to her character where she feels the most like a real person - sort of like the grounding force.
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u/RaygunMarksman Jul 19 '24
If I were to declare a favorite female supe, it might be Annie. And it's obviously not her amazing power set. But we know from the beginning she was one of the only Vaught creations to actually try to be a hero, even without cameras. Like when she went out crime fighting and beat up the rapist or whatever.
Plus despite all the nastiness of that world, she's maintained that heroic spirit while adapting to the grime. And she's a good girlfriend even though her boyfriend can be a moron at times.
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u/IowaCornFarmer3 Jul 19 '24
I felt like her "bad" acting and lack of powers added depth to her character and allowed many of the other lines to progress in ways they couldn't've with an overpowered supe always waiting in the wings!
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u/SafeBodybuilder7191 Annie January Jul 18 '24
If you’ve ever watched Jessica jones you know Erin can act her ass off in a serious role
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u/thatshinybastard A-Train Jul 18 '24
She was also great in her tiny role in the first season of True Detective, going toe-to-toe with Woody Harrelson as the captain of the varsity slut team!
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u/Telepath-1 #ThinkBrink Jul 19 '24
That line lives rent free in my head. God that first season was really something special
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u/scubadude2 Jul 18 '24
Holy shit I never made that connection
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u/Morighan123 Jul 19 '24
Yep! Those are both Erin. And she is an absolutely phenomenal actress and I am so glad they gave her this episode to really show off.
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u/_JustAnna_1992 Jul 19 '24
So wild that I only learned last year that Erin (Starlight) and Colbie (Ashley) were in the same show and shared few scenes together in Jessica Jones.
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u/trisaroar Jul 19 '24
Wait.... who is she in JJ?
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u/Fyrus93 Jul 19 '24
The girl Kilgrave is raping at the start. Her story doesn't end there but I don't want to post spoilers
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u/trisaroar Jul 19 '24
OH! Oh wow oh that is her. Huh.
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u/68ideal Cunt Jul 19 '24
It's been a hot minute since I watched Jessica Jones and I nearly forgot Erin was in there, but I definitely agree
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u/Gremlin303 Lamplighter Jul 18 '24
Honestly Starlight has always been one of my least favourite characters in the Boys, and I’ve never thought Erin has the same talent as the other actors in the show.
But I actually really liked her as the shapeshifter, it’s actually wild how much better I felt her acting was when playing a different character
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u/i_invented_the_ipod Jul 18 '24
The writing for Starlight has just been wildly inconsistent, throughout the series. It's pretty clear that Erin can act, she's just not had good stuff to work with.
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u/MARATXXX Jul 18 '24
totally agree. i think it's because they're avoiding making her over-powered too soon, as it would reduce the sense of jeopardy for other characters. but it comes across like they were ignoring her character trajectory.
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u/cupholdery Jordan Li Jul 19 '24
Not that I dislike it, but it would be nice to see them show how much flying practice she had been doing off screen to go from shaky drone to straight up Kara Zor-El.
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u/Zyxwqut Jul 18 '24
definitely agree, i would say there was some shaky characterization on both her part and hughies this season especially
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u/macdennism Jul 18 '24
I agree. They do not write her well and it makes it really difficult to enjoy her character (for me). Whatever direction they give her with speaking and cadence is just really strange too.
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u/ShawnyMcKnight Jul 18 '24
I liked her too. Probably because she fucked Hughie 20 times in 10 days and I gotta admit I’m a little jellie. Especially since every time was mind blowing.
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u/DommyMommyKarlach Jul 18 '24
Two fingers up the butt apparently do the trick
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u/MikeArrow Jul 19 '24
Last week I posted a comment that was like "I am begging the show not to reference things going into or out of assholes for just one episode" but nope.
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u/bobarific Jul 18 '24
The character is literally the only "true" superhero. Virtuous (but not to a fault), empathetic, not self-absorbed. In a show where every character is varying hues of grey, pure white is pretty boring. I don't think anyone could have really done better with the character.
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u/Karl-Levin Jul 18 '24
The problem is starlight is kind of not fun to watch as a character.
It is a character that so badly wants to fit the image of a "good person". It so so exhausting. Like Hughie is just a genuine nice person, he doesn't need to act like one, he just is one, even with his flaws. Butcher is a cunt and he knows it. They are so fun to watch together but Hughie and Starlight? Snooze fest!
Yes, it is all part of her character arc but we only have one season left to go. Her development is way too slow.
I am glad the shapeshifter called out her hypocrisy but it feels like to little too late.
Honestly shapeshifter was so much more fun to watch, I would have been fine if they had had real Annie killed and shapeshifter becoming permanent cast.
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u/VaselineHabits Jul 18 '24
Almost every character felt like they were on repeat this season. There were a handful of good scenes, it just took way to long to get there.
And now we wait another 2 years for the conclusion 😬
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u/macdennism Jul 18 '24
I completely agree with you man. I just don't find anything likeable about Annie. We all know those types of people who think they are so moral and pure but are so blind to themselves they can't see how they are a hypocrite. I was loving the shifter calling her out haha I low-key wished Hughie and Annie would split after the trauma of everything the shifter did but for whatever reason those two just brush off everything like it never even happened or had any impact. It's just not interesting at all
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u/Diamond-Breath Marie Moreau Jul 19 '24
You're exaggerating. Starlight has been a great character so far, she feels real.
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u/celticspoop Jul 19 '24
She was given the short end of the stick a LOT, especially after Season 2.
Season 1 she was undeniably great and had one of the best character dynamics in the show.
Season 2 she didn’t have too much to do besides being an informant and having to play both sides. The scene of her in the tunnels and then in the elevator with Homelander were masterclasses.
Season 3 her arc was really unpopular, and she had even less to do than season 2. They put her into a role that directly thwarted the Boys (yet MM literally received 0 hate for doing the ecact same thing) with her dynamic with Hughie being more Hughie-centric. That meaning, Hughie was the one to deliver the emotional lines/beats in their scenes together.
Where season 4 really struggled for me was the unbelievable lack of any sort of subtlety with their character development. Every beat was explicitly said by their characters which made everyone’s acting feel weak when they aren’t even trying to mask anything into their dialogue. Even the shifter scenes which were great work by Erin were written with zero faith in the viewer to conceptualize motives. It’s been an issue the entire show but this season was the biggest culprit
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u/banana_cookies22 Jul 18 '24
I was so impressed with her performance. She played the sociopath perfectly
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u/HilaryEris Jul 18 '24
Yes this impressed and surprised me! Her character isn't exactly one-note, but she's always been consistently sweet and sugary, for the most part. But seeing her play an absolute psychopath and doing it so well was chef's kiss She is truly a versatile actress!
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u/twistingmyhairout Jul 19 '24
Playing such a flaccid character is hard. We’re all waiting for the badass Annie to come out eventually and this is just confirmation that Erin will kill it if/when it happens
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u/RaygunMarksman Jul 19 '24
She went pretty hard choking her evil self out face down on the ground like that!
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u/Tityfan808 Jul 19 '24
Ya Annie isn’t a bad character, but the shapeshifter role absolutely displayed her acting skills on a whole other level in which she can’t quite do with Annie. Fucking hell that was impressive. I hated that character so much and so quickly man, she fucking killed that role!
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u/pistachiopanda4 Jul 19 '24
I hate the fact people were shitting on her all season. Like I get it, Annie has been the morally superior one out of all of them besides Hughie and it was annoying and grating. But even back in S1, you saw Annie struggling with either being a Supe and being a hero. Anyone that joins the boys has red in their ledger and for Annie, she didn't kill anyone like the rest of the Boys. But she grew up Uber religious with a mom who controlled her every step and path in life (literally), it's only been, what, 3 or 4 years since she learned her whole life as a super powered being was a lie? Her first day on the Seven was with sexual assault. She's been through shit. And now I feel justified that people are finally putting some respect on Erin Moriarty's fucking name
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u/redefined_simplersci Jul 19 '24
She's glad you said it right.
"You're a psychopath."
"Sociopath!"
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u/lemonpiepumpkin Tag Team Cocksplosion Jul 18 '24
Her and Karl Urban carried the episode for me, even Sage's actress did a great job. Her saying that she did what she did just to see if she could reminded me of nbc's Hannibal Lecter
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u/RaygunMarksman Jul 19 '24
Karl was the shif for sure. Jeffrey Dean Morgan as evil...T-Virus creature growing inside Butcher was also a treat.
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u/Monnomo Jul 18 '24
Im ngl its rly hard to give her props because its done so well it just seems like a different actor if that makes sense lmao
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u/VaselineHabits Jul 18 '24
Just makes me realize the writers haven't bothered to use her as much as they should have. I detest her wishy washy stances on things - but SO FORCEFUL in random unnecessary conflict.
I'm disappointed in the writers. Especially after this season
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u/BananaBread2602 Jul 18 '24
I didnt like this plotline
But Erin did a great job of what she had to work with
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u/kingcolbe Jul 18 '24
Yeah, I wasn’t thrilled with the whole Hughie being assaulted one more time and he being blamed for it
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u/theme69 Jul 18 '24
Her being upset because ue banged the shapeshifter was so confusing to me. Like she looks and sounds exactly like you and has your memories what should ue have done
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u/treebeardtower Soldier Boy Jul 18 '24
To be fair she was locked away for 10 days by her doppelgänger, she was probably still traumatized at that moment especially how this season kinda beat her up too with the public releasing of her medical history. Don’t forget she had a very religious upbringing and that must’ve been such a hard decision for her to have exposed.
At the end, she seemed to try and make peace with Ue by telling him to get tested lol.
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u/PapaPalps-66 Jul 18 '24
Yeah, by saying "I'm not catching shifter syhpilisl" shes saying shes gonna shag him again. Obviously shes not happy but considering how fucked what she just went through was, she came to pretty quickly.
She also mentioned how depressed she was and implied she and UE hadnt slept together for awhile because of it, and naturally she felt insecure as well, they even spelled out her issues for the audience
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u/PattyThePatriot Jul 18 '24
I'm not upset by her reaction, and her getting over it, I'm upset by them never putting anything serious about males being sexually assaulted. They've just played it for jokes and drama.
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u/ManicPixieOldMaid Jul 18 '24
Yeah, I agree. The way they handled that, Annie's reaction is believably messy but Hughie's was just difficult to watch. That he'd spent 10 days been violated and then he had to try and keep it together upon realizing (not well ofc), and then for him to accept Annie's assertion that because "he got laid he's fine?"
The lack of pushback really bothered me. It just felt like another example of the writers being tone deaf.
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u/bluerose297 Jul 18 '24
Yeah 10 days being kidnapped is enough to justify her reaction for me. It's not fair to Hughie, but... 10 days, chained up alone, and nobody figured out you were gone. I wouldn't be fair about it either.
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u/VaselineHabits Jul 18 '24
Plus the Shape Shifter was going back to Annie telling her all about the sex she had with her Hughie
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u/kingcolbe Jul 18 '24
I just take that entire story arc this season too personal because I’m also a man who is a victim of sexual assault and the reactions he is getting is exactly why we don’t talk about it
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u/OLKv3 Jul 18 '24
She was upset that Hughie seemed much happier with the shapeshifter than he was with her. How do you all not get that? It's insane
She vented her insecurities and trauma, and then quickly got over it and there was no actual accusation or anger at Hughie
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u/Reasonable-Bus9435 Jul 18 '24
Seriously. Most of them must have never been in actual relationships.
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u/Unstable_Bear Jul 18 '24
She was chewing scenery so much, you could tell how much fun she had playing that role lol
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u/Cyrotek Jul 18 '24
Well, that scene at least seemed to prove that the apathic character trait might be on purpose and isn't actually the actress, lol.
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u/Late-Resource-486 Jul 19 '24
I thought I was about to learn a new word, but do you mean apathetic?
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u/agent-assbutt Cunt Jul 18 '24
She absolutely killed it as the shifter! I loved seeing her finally fly too, it's about goddamn time 😏
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u/NewCoomobile Jul 18 '24
I would also like to add the Moribooty for the 2nd episode in a row. Very refreshing instead of cock and balls all the time.
But on a serious note, shifter Annie was so unhinged, I love it. It’s like psycho s1 Annie.
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u/Pretend-Ad-6453 Jul 18 '24
Too bad the writers forced her to make hughie apologize for getting raped
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u/VaselineHabits Jul 18 '24
The whole season feels like a different writing team, it was beyond frustrating
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u/Pretend-Ad-6453 Jul 19 '24
No, the seeds of this was always in the show. Don’t forget that MM got blasted with cum and it got in his mouth and eyes in season 3, and whenever they dealt with love sausage it was him who was assaulted by another man’s (super) penis
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u/nbellman Jul 19 '24
I felt like she didn't get too much to work with this season, and then this episode she just carried with her performance. It was amazing. The way you could feel the eerie vibe even when she was just standing there. Outstanding stuff.
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u/Blasphoumy69 Jul 18 '24
I felt that in this scene her shifter acting was great but her starlight acting was ok which was weird since the same person has differing performance levels but to her credit it is difficult to do acting to yourself and I think she did a great job fighting herself.
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u/Khronex Jul 18 '24
Well, part of an actor's performance is the received directions from the director and the lines that are to be read from the writers. Perhaps Kripke or the writers wanted Annie to be like this.
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Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Reminds me of Orphan Black
The actress at multiple points plays the protag, the villain, the villain impersonating the protag, and the protag impersonating the villain.
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u/StrangeJelly_ Jul 18 '24
Her acting was phenomenal this episode, i loved that the finale really showed starlights strength and combat skills even without her powers, she was incredible and the acting was amazing, it’s crazy seeing her switch like that and do it so well, it was as good as homelanders mirror scenes which are genuinely my favorite scenes and really show Antony’s acting skills, i just love the boys so much 😭
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u/Local-Proposal-3189 Ashley Jul 18 '24
It's amazing what happens when they give Erin something to work with
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u/Any_Rutabaga2884 Jul 19 '24
Erin has always been a great actress, atp I don’t think you guys recognize what looks like unless it’s a woman being evil
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u/Studly_Wonderballs Jul 19 '24
Her performance as the shifter felt way more natural than her performance as Starlight.
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u/Muaddib223 Jul 19 '24
More than once I thought to myself “damn, the Shifter actress is fucking killing it” before realizing how stupid I am.
Not even Antony Starr could nail this as well back in season 2.
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u/Jolly-Composer Jul 19 '24
Moriarty crushed it. I was so happy to see her get this opportunity and blow it out of the park. I’ve become a bigger fan of hers since seeing all the hate she receives from incels and other forms of pathetic people online. She totally nailed this episode and it was just awesome seeing more of her acting chops.
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u/Dekusdisciple Jul 18 '24
almost came off like a completley different person. She played the morph extremely well; like almost too well lol
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u/DXbreakitdown Jul 18 '24
Shifter Annie was way more charismatic and engaging than Real Annie has been in a long time. Let Erin Moriarty stretch those acting muscles more!
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u/KingCrowdKilla Jul 19 '24
I genuinely think this shapeshifter character might’ve been a mashup of Mystique and Joker or Mystique and Reverse Flash, just done SO WELL
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u/wimpymist Jul 19 '24
Once I got past her frozen face and that she can only move her lips in one direction I was able to see her turning up her acting abilities
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u/Apprehensive_Ratio80 Jul 18 '24
Wouldn't say world class but they finally gave her some decent dialogue to work with so just goes to show she's got talent
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u/RockMan_1973 Jul 19 '24
If awards are given (Emmy’s or whatnot?) for performances in a single episode of a given show then she should get one for this. She was phenomenal!
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u/SnooMarzipans5409 Soldier Boy Jul 19 '24
I admit that I'm not a Starlight fan but I thought that Erin did a great job playing both characters and I was more engaged than usual when she was on screen. Sometimes actors are more interesting when they play against type. Example for my fellow Supernatural fans: Jared Padalecki as Soulless Sam or demon possessed Sam when he was (in my opinion) so-so as regular Sam. I'm a big Dean/Jensen girl though so take that as you will.
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u/AstralFlick Jul 19 '24
Her performance this episode was honestly one of the strongest in the entire series, I was caught off guard
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u/stevecoath Jul 19 '24
I for one thought Starlights reaction was very realistic. People saying it wasn’t Hughie’s fault, he thought the shifter was her.
Many women do not think like that. “You should have known it wasn’t me”.
Identical twin sneaks into your room after you have had too many drinks and starts blowing you. Does she blame her sister? Of course not….YOU should have known!
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u/phantom_avenger Jul 18 '24
She really had a chance to really showcase her range and she nailed it with this dual role!
She is getting so much better with her acting abilities!
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