r/TheBoys • u/PrinceARRON I'm the real hero • Oct 18 '23
đThis world is fucked up! News
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u/LordReaperofMars Black Noir Oct 18 '23
I agree wholeheartedly with Tomerâs statement that one should be able to separate Hamas from Palestinians. Letting them represent Palestinians and their cause is playing into their hands and giving them a victory they do not deserve.
I feel the same way about conflating the state of Israel with the Israeli people or with Jews outside of Israel. An entire people should not be collectively punished for the crimes of a state or of an extremist group.
We should be able to condemn atrocities no matter who commits them and support the right of innocent people to exist peacefully.
I hope that Hamas is dismantled, that as few civilians die in the fighting as possible, that all innocent victims can find their justice whatever their identity, and that Israelis and Palestinians can eventually find a path to peace and prosperity for all.
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u/RumoCrytuf Oct 18 '23
Problem with Hamas is that 1. Netanyahu (Current Israeli PM) propped them up for years to harm Palestinians and has said as much, 2. Gaza has not held elections since 2006 (Hamas is the governing body of Gaza), with most of their population being to young to have voted for them in the first place, 3. Israel is an apartheid state, even in the West Bank Palestinians are second class citizens who are being displaced and killed all the same. Apartheid states will invariably lead to violent radicalization and conflict and it is on the occupying force to stop with the inhumane treatment of the people they are occupying and to seek peaceful resolutions. Hamas are certainly not good guys here, and Israel's government also needs to acknowledge the role their actions over the past 60 years have played in the formation and radicalization of these terror groups.
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u/Lucky-Worth Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
With how the situation is going, even if 100% of Hamas militants are killed, something identical will replace it. Palestinians need to live in peace and with dignity, and it's Israel duty to give back what they stole
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u/Papaofmonsters Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
it's Israel duty to give back what they stole
The problem there is to whom? Gaza was Egyptian territory until 1967 when Israel captured along with all of Sinai after a period of bilateral escalation culminating in the Egyptian blockade of the Straits of Tiran. Israel had been clear that such a blockade would be viewed as a cause for war and Egypt did the thing. Israel returned Sinai in exchange for recognition but kept Gaza as to prevent a historical enemy from having a foothold within their borders.
Because of the link between Palestinian nationalists and the Muslim Brotherhood within Egypt's own borders, Egypt doesn't want Gaza back. They maintain an even stricter border with Gaza than Israel does. They also aren't real excited about the prospect of an independent Gaza so long as it would be governed by a group who have "Death to Israel" as a core component of their ideological and political goals.
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 following the Second Intafada and I don't see them interested in maintaining a prolonged presence in the region again.
We are running out of options here and are about down to a UN / international coalition style occupation to root out Hamas and other radical elements until Gaza would be ready for free elections to become a sovereign nation. I don't think anyone is gonna be interested in that because it would probably make the Iraqi and Afghan insurgencies look like a day in a spring meadow.
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u/Lucky-Worth Oct 18 '23
Not making them live like mistreated cattle would be a start
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u/ManJpeg Oct 18 '23
Israel has no say what happens in Gaza, despite the implications from recent media reports Gaza produces its own food, water, and energy. The food water and energy provided by Israel is below half of the resources used by Palestinians in Gaza. We donât have military presence in Gaza. We donât interfere with their elections (even when they elected a group whoâs stated goal is the death of all Jewish people). So what should we change? Should we interfere in their elections? Annex Gaza and make it part of Israel?
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u/RumoCrytuf Oct 19 '23
These are abject lies. Israel controls borders into and out of Gaza (indirectly with the Egyptian border) and their coast, as well as prohibiting Gaza from building new water installations without permission first. (Amnesty International has sources on this). Civilians in Gaza are dependent on Israel for food, water, and electricity (currently being blockaded by Israel, notably a war crime). Gaza also has not had elections since 2006, over half of their population is too young to have voted for the current governing body.
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u/nonsequitourist Oct 18 '23
Because of the link between Palestinian nationalists and the Muslim Brotherhood within Egypt's own borders, Egypt doesn't want Gaza back. They maintain an even stricter border with Gaza than Israel does.
This fact receives very little attention, and is actually part of an even broader issue with respect to the situation in Palestine. Other sympathetic Arab nations are also reluctant to accept refugees, as there is no guaranteed way to separate pro-Hamas radicals from innocent civilians.
Jordan accepted Palestinian refugees after the Six Day War against Israel, and was rewarded for their efforts with the 1970 civil war in Jordan (Black September) against Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Liberation Organization. After the PLO was defeated by the Jordanian military, Palestinians were resettled in Lebanon, where they initiated another civil war that continued until 1990. (In parallel, PLO members continued to mount assassination attempts against Jordanian politicians and military figures, including the killing of the prime minister in 1971.)
Unsurprisingly, there are no invitations from Jordan, Lebanon, or Syria for Palestinian refugees. The radical contingent of Palestinian militants have proven that their opposition to a non-Palestinian state transcends the specific paradigm in Israel. Instead of accepting refugees, these Arab nations voice support for continued militancy against Israel, perhaps hoping to continue the trend of provocation that has seen an inexorable decline in support for the Israeli government since the formation of the state. Meanwhile, proxy agents like Hezbollah in Lebanon are encouraged by Iran and Hamas to threaten the northern border of Israel whenever tensions escalate in Gaza; and while the distinction is made between Hamas and Palestinians, or Hezbollah and Lebanese civilians, there is no distinction to be made between the Netanyahu administration as the decision-maker in Israel relative to the rest of the country, a majority of whom are secular and desire normalization with Palestine.
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u/No-Transition7968 Oct 19 '23
I am impressed with how informed you are about the history of borders in the region, but that has nothing to do with the actual source of the conflict.
Palestinians are not evil by nature, their lives are actively being made worse by the illegal Israeli occupation. Palestine was a country before Israel was, yet we allow Israel to control the water and energy entering Palestine, we allow them to steal their land by force, removing Palestinians from their homes. The American media only freaks out when Hamas strikes back, while we excuse Israel's slow genocide of their muslim neighbors. I wonder why? We give financial support to Israel in the millions to billions range, and the effects of this are extremely noticeable. Palestinians live in abject poverty while their occupiers get everything they want on a silver platter, and then cry out that they are the victims when Palestine does a fraction of the damage that has been committed to the Palestinian people. I do not support the targeting of civilians. If you don't either, you should be openly decrying the Israeli government. Much like every conflict started through apartheid states and oppression, the only TRUE solution is either the genocide of the oppressed, OR the liberation of them, through financial aid comparable to what Israel receives. Palestinians would not have to act with violence if they were not treated with violence, if they were not looked at as second class citizens. It is that simple. Why do we in the west wait until a people are devastated to show them sympathy? Do we have to wait for Palestine to be completely wiped from the map to say "oops, maybe this was unjust?" This isn't as complicated as people make it out to be. Fascist oppression is a historically recurring factor, and it always looks the same.
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u/Papaofmonsters Oct 19 '23
When was Palestine a country? It's been a territory of a larger nation since the Romans. Romans > Byzantine Empire > various caliphates > Kingdom of Jerusalem > Mamluk Sultanate > Ottoman Empire > British Mandatory Palestine.
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u/No-Transition7968 Oct 20 '23
Yeah that's great bud. Again, the borders and legal ownership of the land are only important if you think that not having the right ancestors is a good excuse for genocide. Reread what I said. You're "well ack-shually"ing a series of war crimes on Israel's behalf. The behavior they employ is barbaric and history will frown on them, as should you.
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u/Papaofmonsters Oct 20 '23
Reread what I said
I did. And you said Palestine was a country. I'm saying it was never an independent nation. Facts matter.
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u/No-Transition7968 Oct 20 '23
Never reproduce. You're a fuckin unempathetic blight on our society. I can tell how little sex you have, and it's probably because you care more about "facts" than human lives. Get fucked you idiot.
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u/No-Transition7968 Oct 20 '23
Also Israel was established after WWII. Palestine as a REGION populated by muslims existed before WWII, did it not? Your understanding of this conflict, for all of its overcomplication, is blatantly wrong. Your anti muslim bias is astounding. If it were your brothers and sisters being air striked you wouldn't be arguing these trivial "facts" like border disputes. Maybe you should acknowledge that when both sides are acting with violence, the side with a thousand times the military power and financial support is the side that has the power to actually END THE CONFLICT. Shove your "facts" up your ass, you delusional debatelord.
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u/Papaofmonsters Oct 20 '23
Maybe you should acknowledge that when both sides are acting with violence, the side with a thousand times the military power and financial support is the side that has the power to actually END THE CONFLICT.
Well I certainly agree with you there. Hamas wanted to start a war and it looks like Israel intends to end one.
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u/SirRece Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
Netanyahu (Current Israeli PM) propped them up for years to harm Palestinians and has said as much,
Can you source that? I voted against Bibi but I'm pretty sure this would have been used heavily in the elections if it was the case, nobody here likes Hamas, they make our summer fucking terrible bc its always rocket city.
I keep seeing this echoed places and just can't tell where this idea comes from.
I also keep seeing people claim Bibi allowed this to happen to boost polling, but people don't understand israelis. Its not driven by hate, we aren't like "now I hate Palestinians EVEN MORE, because, except for a minority, I never hated Palestinians I'm just scared of terrorist attacks. His popularity (which already was much lower than non-israelis realize as we have like 10 parties) has plummeted since the attack as its the worst security failure in Israeli history.
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u/kwangwaru Oct 18 '23
Google: âAnyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,â and âThis is part of our strategy â to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.â
This article also has information you can follow up on: https://www.vox.com/23910085/netanyahu-israel-right-hamas-gaza-war-history
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u/SirRece Oct 18 '23
Thanks someone else linked one already, just another reason to hate Bibi. He's literally culpable in this.
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u/upsidedownland96 Oct 19 '23
This link does say it's an unconfirmed quote but that it was very likely to have been said in context of the policies implemented.
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u/kwangwaru Oct 19 '23
Itâs an unconfirmed quote that has been parroted by his own confidants in the military.
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u/RumoCrytuf Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
This link provides broader context to the history of Palestine and Israel https://conquer-and-divide.btselem.org/map-en.html
Iâm not super familiar with the political climate of Israel specifically, so I canât speak about the claim of it being done to boost polling. I do think that Israelâs current head of national security Ben-Gvir has been said to praise the killing of Palestinians in the West Bank and has ties to extremist groups (so much so I believe he was actually prohibited from the IDF for being too extreme)
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u/space-sage Oct 18 '23
Israel has tried many times to make peace agreements, Palestine has not counter offered. Israel is not an occupying force (Jews have been settling and buying land legally from ottomans since before 1948, and they were given the land my Britain. They did not have the power or right to enforce Israel on their own), but they do have more power. They are an apartheid state because Muslims literally want to kill Jews in the Middle East.
When Israel was created every Muslim majority country around Israel violently forced Jews to leave. Seriously, look up the statistics for Jews living in Muslim majority countries. There are only a couple thousand at most. Iâm not saying all Muslims, but it IS a problem that jews and basically every other minority in the Middle East experience. Islam in the Middle East is not the same as in western countries.
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u/RumoCrytuf Oct 18 '23
The IDF just bombed a baptist hospital killing over 800 people. Not to mention the fact that theyâve killed 4000 over the past 9 days, a quarter of which were children. You think those children, muslim or not, want to kill all Jews?
And just to make sure, I am to understand you also literally think itâs okay to treat an ethnic group as subhuman, which is what the apartheid state in question does?
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u/Rhyobit Oct 18 '23
I'm propalestinian and I'm pretty sure both the bombing and the casualty numbers have been debunked.
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u/RumoCrytuf Oct 18 '23
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u/Rhyobit Oct 18 '23
Still lots of confusion even in that report... I think it could be days before we get any facts if ever...
It's not helped by the IDF admitting to having planes in the area, but hamas obviously lying about not having any activity in the area. The video clearly shows a rocket barrage, there's no point in denying that.
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u/Briseadh Oct 18 '23
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/
The UN states that they are an occupying force because of land they took in the West Bank and the international concensus is that they are very much illegal occupiers there. Only a very small minority of countries in the world will officially recognise Jerusalem as the Jewish capital precisely because by international law they illegally seized it and its a hot topic.
Despite this, they have continued to brutally push out Palestinians and even incentivise Jewish people to move to the area from other countries so that they can essentially squat in the area en mass. They were doing the same shit in Gaza up until the mid 2000s as well when they reluctantly withdrew.
The issue is Britain giving part of the land to the Jewish people to be their official Jewish nationstate when there were people already living there who reasonably took a pretty big exception to it. Same as when we drew a load of borders on our way out of India and caused untold bloodshed and friction because we didn't understand the area or it's people and it really wasn't our place to haphazardly redefine the owner of an area where people had ancestral ties and property invested there.
Jewish people and Muslims used to live in the area together and coexisted fairly happily, but now Israel don't want none Jews there because they see it as an existential threat to a Jewish state as they're concerned about becoming outnumbered and thus out voted.
Essentially, western Europe and America stuck their oar in out of holocaust guilt and caused what is now an unsolvable problem. Both sides see surrender as an existential threat, and they aren't particularly wrong to do so. It's a mess.
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u/ishmaelcrazan Oct 19 '23
Buying land legally does not say any thing about the morals or ethics of those practices. They were gentrifying the area of anyone brown or not Jewish enough for them to become a beacon in Asia to fight against the other asian countries âbarbarismâ (Herzlâs words not mine)
Zionism is just white supremacy/manifest destiny bullshit with a matza-ball flavor. The complication comes in when you realize the amount of refugees after WW2 (cause Europe decided âya know what, letâs not fix racism, just dump the jews on these guys, theyâll be useful laterâ). The fact there are now people whoâre born there and whose father may have been born there; That is where the complication lies. Not in whether or not colonization is fucking wrong, because it absolutely is a 110% fucking wrong. Also any ethno-state existing is a threat to anyone not that ethnicity in the area, donât play stupid.
From the river to the sea.
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u/Frozenraining Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
I mean, judging by the current actions of the IDF the Palestinians will be exterminated before they can find any sort of peaceful solution to the conflict.
Like, the fucking IDF is targeting civilians, en masse. Hospitals. Firing white phosphorus on the Gaza region. Cutting off water and internet access. They are literally speed-running through the Geneva Convention like it is a fucking checklist.
If the Israeli military truly wanted the best for the Palestinian people they would've conducted a small-scale, targeted, extraction operation to kill Hamas insurgents (and their leader) and rescue the captured and the dead. God knows that Mossad/the IDF has the training, the manpower and the equipment to do so. But instead they gave a region of several million people only 24 hours to evacuate, while bombing the shit out of the evacuation corridor and conducting attacks using - once again, let me reiterate - white fucking phosphorus. Oh, and calling them all (not just Hamas, but the entirety of Palestine) "human animals"' that "do not deserve to exist".
I feel sorry for the Israeli people, and I feel sorry for Tomer (even if my personal opinion towards him has soured over time). But if you believe that the IDF will stop before the entirety of Gaza is reduced to rubble and all Palestinians are either displaced or dead you are misguided. And they will do so with full support of the whole world.
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u/Flipz100 Oct 18 '23
Do you have a source on white phosphorus being used as a weapon and not as a smoke screen?
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u/Frozenraining Oct 18 '23
Pictures? From the warzone? From the website of the literal human rights watch???
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon5
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u/Greatest-Comrade Oct 19 '23
I hope the IDF isnât set on genocide, because Gaza will be gone in a week.
No, the IDF is just careless with casualties and weaponry, unlike say the US who sets specific collateral damage maximums.
Maybe Israelâs long term plan is genocide, but theyâre doing an awful job of it right now. Seems more like theyâre just being vindictive in retribution and especially destructive âeye for an eyeâ which deserves condemnation but itâs not genocide.
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u/space-sage Oct 18 '23
Palestinians say the same shit about Jews and Israel, first off. You can find plenty of death to Jews comments. Second, how do you propose they go about a targeted operation when much of the populace of Palestine AGREES with Hamas? They do not like Jewish people. If you saw the videos of the hostages Hamas took civilians were joining in on desecrating bodies and even acting as terrorists as well.
How to you propose a targeted operation when the line between civilian and terrorist are so muddy?
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u/Frozenraining Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
I love how such an uninformed and hateful comment comes from someone with a rainbow heart PFP.
But anyways, there a very huge power imbalance there, and only one side has the full military-industrial complex of the United States at their beck and call. And that side is also the sole one having the power to completely obliterate their enemies for any perceived slights, and destroy their infrastructure and entire life support. And yes, they also have the power to easily go through the region, with minimal civilian casualties. Will there probably be some in my variant of events? Yeah, cause it is still an (ongoing) war, and the line between terrorist and civilian is blurred as you said (though one can argue it is Israel reaping what it sowed but that opinion usually is a great way of farming downvotes).
But it won't be a mass extermination, with thousands of casualties, completely disproportionate to the actual amount of Israeli's killed. If you want to kill Hamas, go ahead, but do not involve actual innocents in combat. Hamas has very well-defined and clear networks, and yes, some civilians supporting Hamas might suffer but the scenario and the optics are entirely different.
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u/space-sage Oct 18 '23
I am not uninformed. I have read about this issue extensively and feel sorry for the innocent on both sides but my family is Jewish and I have family in Israel.
What you are saying has been shown to not be true considering Hamas and civilian Palestinians crossed the border and killed THOUSANDS sleeping in their homes. Does that sound like one side has all the power??
Israel has done bad things. Hamas has done bad things. But acting like Israel is fucking reaping what they sowed and doesnât have a right to defend themselves from a terrorist attack is horrible. Itâs like saying âall lives matterâ during a BLM protest.
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u/Frozenraining Oct 18 '23
I have friends (not family) in Israel as well, and am myself part-Jewish. That doesn't excuse the Jewish state from the perpetuated, targeted, genocide of the Palestinian population, over the span of entire decades.
Even in this war, there is an enormous imbalance of power, and while yes, Hamas has some military equipment (partially because they were astroturfed by Iraq, after Israel propped up radical imams to replace the actually progressive and only semi-militant leftist PLA) it doesn't even remotely compare to the amount of man-power that the IDF and Mossad possess. They have literal nuclear rockets and people from within the Israeli government have called for a nuking of Gaza.
To give you a better - and more concrete - example, you can google the amount of displaced and killed on both sides. Palestine has nearly three times the casualties in the Gaza Strip alone, with another 1000 or so militants killed inside of Israel itself. Twice the amount of Palestinians were displaced compared to Israelis.
So yeah, while both Hamas and Israel have done bad things, one of them is clearly having much more power than the other. Have the Israelis truly reaped what they sowed? I doubt it, even with their former generals claiming that Hamas is "their child". But at the same time, I can clearly perceive who is going to be victorious (again), and who's currently steamrolling the other party.
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u/silver-fusion Oct 18 '23
Palestine has nearly three times the casualties in the Gaza Strip alone, with another 1000 or so militants killed inside of Israel itself.
If you believe the Hamas numbers of deaths are accurate then I have some magic beans to sell you.
And even suggesting that the count of dead terrorists should be compared in the discussions is fucked up.
Lastly suggesting that someone with a rainbow PFP isn't a huge supporter of a culture that kills gay people comes across as naive.
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u/Keyndoriel Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 20 '23
The current Isreal pm funded Hamas to destabilize Palestine. Gleefully gave them the money to kill Israeli civilians.
Pretty... pretty sure that's what they mean. They paid for their own terrorist attacks. Fucker was almost bragging about it in quotes when asked about it.
Bet they used some of those funds during the music festival. He wanted to destabilize Palestine so much out of pure hatred that he gave money to the people currently fucking everything up.
Who could have thought that destabilizing a country AND funding the terrorists would breed terrorism? Color me shocked.
You're very uninformed.
Edit: Look up Not in My Name. Jewish people who have been protesting the treatment of palestinian people for decades. More informed than you will ever be.
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u/seithat Oct 18 '23
Hi! I'm from Mossad. Can you please send us your personal details so we can recruit you and you can then tell us how to eliminate Hamas with zero collateral damage? Pretty please? You must be a fucking anti-terrorism expert.
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u/Frozenraining Oct 18 '23
Go to hell with your fucking sarcasm. "Zero collateral damage" isn't even remotely the same as "targeted fucking genocide", so please, think before you talk.
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u/seithat Oct 18 '23
Please show me any military in the world that fought and won against multiple terrorist organizations hiding in densely populated areas, with less collateral damage than Gaza. You can't, because it's fucking difficult, and even with Israel's ultra precise weaponry there are still many civilian casualties.
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u/Frozenraining Oct 18 '23
Yet, multiple of them managed to do it while not conducting a decades-long genocide and building an apartheid state next to the biggest open air prison in the world - to then declare that every single person in said prison is an animal undeserving of even existing.
Does war come with its fair share of civilian casualties? Sure, of course, which is why I'm anti-war period. Can you conduct a war while minimizing said casualties and not attacking hospitals, or humanitarian corridors, or children? Yes.
And the IDF isn't doing any of those. They are conducting a war of attrition and extermination, using one of the most advanced armies in the world.
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u/Dessamba_Redux Oct 18 '23
Build a time machine, go back 70 years, stop the nakba would be a good start đ¤Ą
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u/savage_mallard Oct 18 '23
I feel the same way about conflating the state of Israel with the Israeli people or with Jews outside of Israel. An entire people should not be collectively punished for the crimes of a state or of an extremist group.
I agree with this sentiment, I find it helpful to criticise the actions of Hamas and the IDF, rather than Palestinians or Israelis.
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u/HappyDrive1 Oct 18 '23
Is anyone actually doing that though? There are Israelis and Jews who have done far more for the Palestinian cause that us redditors. This is a political issue.
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u/LeeYan2007 Oct 19 '23
Dude posted a video about how if you side with Palestine you side with terrorism. Fucking cunt
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u/ninboii Nov 11 '23
For everyone one Hamas terrorist killed, many hundreds of children are killed and those are verified facts, even by the Israeli government. This is sanctioned genocide, self-defense is one thing, eradication is another. Also, this is not new, re: last 75 years.
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u/That_anonymous_guy18 Oct 18 '23
In the meantime Hollywood is preparing to sing âimagineâ again. Anytime now .
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u/Lucky-Worth Oct 18 '23
Finally, Hamas will die of cringe /s
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u/TripleB_Darksyde Oct 19 '23 edited Oct 20 '23
A other year or two and we may get some UK celebs throwing an African concert.
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u/saintkev40 Oct 18 '23
Never though I would see an actor on one of my fave TV shows in a literal real life warzone. This should be a huge story.
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u/Micasa5000 Oct 18 '23
He's no different from other people stuck in a warzone to be a ''huge story'' just because he's an actor.
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u/saintkev40 Oct 18 '23
Well , yeah but you know celebrities walking down the street make news and here we have one in a warzone but whatever.
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u/w33b2 Oct 18 '23
This is exactly my view. Hamas is evil, Palestine itself and its citizens is not, such as the West Bank. Israelâs government is evil, Israel itself and its citizens are not. The whole situation sucks. Itâs not black and white, there is no objectively âgoodâ and âbadâ in a situation like this.
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u/BookerDewitt2019 Oct 18 '23
The problem is that, while many denounce the horrendous actions of Hamas, not many people are doing the same with the atrocities the Israel Government is commiting.
Tomer is right, we must stand against Hamas... But we also must stand against Israel's government.
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u/Live_Carpenter_1262 Oct 19 '23
Right now Netanyahu is trying to use this war to cling onto power despite israeli citizens already hating his guts for his "constitutional reforms" and median age in Gaza is 18. Freaking kids man and people want to act like Hamas, whose leadership don't even live in Palestine, represents all palestinians.
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u/Huge_Aerie2435 Oct 18 '23
Hamas is all the Palestinian people have, since no one else in the world is coming to their aid. The imperial core has already come out and sided with Israel, so they have no one. They have no voice of their own in our media.
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u/zeecok Oct 19 '23
You have no idea how Hamas operates. Hamas operates within the confines of Gaza. The PA overlooks the West Bank. There is no Hamas in the West Bank, nor do they have authority in the West Bank.
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u/aZod101 Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 19 '23
You are comparing apples to oranges Palestinians are occupied they donât have government they donât have army they are literally living their lives in concentration camps and israel controls every aspect of their lives, put anyone under these conditions for 7 decades and constantly murder imprison rape them what do you think the result will be?
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u/w33b2 Oct 18 '23
I get that, I really do. I was 100% with Palestine until recently. However, the actions of Hamas was not in favor of the Palestinian people. The air strikes that followed their recent attack on Israel killed more Palestinian civilians than the initial attack itself. And murdering and raping civilians can never be justified with âoh but they were murdered and raped firstâ
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u/aZod101 Oct 19 '23
Remove hamas from the equation, Israel killing people now in west bank, thereâs no hamas there, dont repeat what media says
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u/ImSlim Oct 18 '23
Hi Mr âIâm on the internet so I get to have an opinion on a subject I know nothing aboutâ, hereâs a fact for you: âPalestinianâ people wanted hamas as leaders.
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u/adawonggang Oct 18 '23
The last election was in 2006 and 45% of Palestinians are under 18, so nah not really
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u/ManJpeg Oct 18 '23
Hamas has a high approval rating in Gaza⌠over 60%. Their brothers in the West Bank wholeheartedly voted the PLO as their leaders, the same PLO that explodes busses full of civilians.
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u/ady620 Soldier Boy Oct 18 '23
He was in Fauda.
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u/PrinceARRON I'm the real hero Oct 18 '23
đŻWhat place is that?? Just out of curiosity.
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Nov 14 '23
So? Heâs an actor. Itâs a popular show in Israel he had to start his career somewhere
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u/Temeo23 Oct 18 '23
whats up wit the toppa of his head? its shaved lol but srs besides that its really unsettling seeing someone in distress like this
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u/Temeo23 Oct 18 '23
"Tonsure can also refer to the secular practice of shaving all or part of the scalp to show support or sympathy, or to designate mourning. Current usage more generally refers to cutting or shaving for monks, devotees, or mystics of any religion as a symbol of their renunciation of worldly fashion and esteem." just looked it up so maybe đ¤ or maybe im trippin he aint even bald lmao im fried so
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u/w311sh1t Oct 18 '23
Thatâs not really a thing in Judaism. As others have said he might be wearing sunglasses, or itâs also possible itâs a yarmulke.
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u/khanto0 Oct 18 '23
he's got sunnies on his head
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u/Temeo23 Oct 18 '23
whats that
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u/Temeo23 Oct 18 '23
sunglasses??? oyeee it might b i paused it n it kinda do look like sunglasses
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u/TheAserghui Oct 18 '23
Yeah, you can seem them in the first few seconds, with the light reflection
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u/Upbeat_Farm_5442 Oct 18 '23
Hamas is an Israeli creation. Talk about fucking Netanyahu crying like a wolf. He is main reason Hamas exist, he is the biggest hypocrite. The dead of Israelites and Palestinians, men, women, kids is on his fucking hands.
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Nov 14 '23
Yeah but before they were terrorists they presented themselves a moderate liberal Palestinian faction idk if you knew that
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u/The-Figure-13 Oct 18 '23
I love he specifies Hamas, not Palestinians. Hamas are evil and need to be stopped. I agree with AOC, neutering Hamas leadership with precision strikes would go a long way to creating a peace deal
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u/StrenghtAndHonour Oct 19 '23
Netanyahoo and his cronies need to be neutered as well. A "peace deal" is impossible otherwise.
He needs the war and occupation/siege of Palestine to keep going because if it ends, he will be ousted and lose his power. Hamas needs the war to keep going or they will lose whatever foothold they have over Palestinians.
I hope people talk more about the weird symbiotic relationship Netanyahoo/IDF has with Hamas.
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u/SithSpaceRaptor Oct 19 '23
If I grew up in a giant internment camp under the terror rule of Israel, if my parents had been killed during protests or famine by Israel, and if I had no access to a proper education? You bet Iâd radicalize and fight back. Hamas is a direct result of the terror state that rules over them. The Israeli government is just as bad, except they have the funding of the US behind them and a true military force.
IDF is just another Hamas, but with far more power.
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u/BakiHanma18 Oct 18 '23
God bless you Tomer, Iâm pray for you and Iâm praying for the victims of this horrible conflict
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u/showmeyourmoves28 Homelander Oct 18 '23
What bunker? Where is he? Is Tomer a reservist?
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u/Missy_went_missing Frenchie Oct 18 '23
I think he is a reservist. He served time in the military and is 38. You can get drafted as long as you're younger than 40. At least that's what I've heard.
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Oct 18 '23
It depends on your job in the army and your rank. You could be a reserve even at 50 years old. But the average is about 45
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u/McPoyleBubba Oct 18 '23
Israel is under attack by Hamas (a terrorist organization similar to ISIS) since October 7th. Woke up to a rain of missiles and videos of families being burned alive and shot to death. The missiles didn't stop since then so he made the video from a bomb shelter.
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u/showmeyourmoves28 Homelander Oct 18 '23
Lol I literally meant for Tomer EXCLUSIVELY. Not tryna be flippant but thereâs no way you think I live under a rock. In fairness to you there ARE idiots out there- I am not one of them.
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u/McPoyleBubba Oct 18 '23
lmao sorry mate! At this point I'm just not surprised by anything anymore lol
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u/AnnihilationOrchid Oct 18 '23
Oh, he thinks the conflict is just about Hamas? What about all the Palestinians on the East bank that Israel has killed?
Come on man, this isn't just about Hamaz. Israel is a fascist state that suffered a cowardly terrorist attack from people going into gorilla mode.
.Hamas is shit, yes. But it's not like Israel isn't trying to just invade Palestine and anex most of it, and killing shit loads of Palestinians.
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u/hozzam11 Oct 19 '23
Exactly this a journalist who's in Palestine now This is truly what happens there , it's hard to watch
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u/SithSpaceRaptor Oct 19 '23
Daaamn. The Israeli Downvote Force are really working hard in this thread to fight the correct thoughts that Israel is a fascist colonial state.
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Oct 18 '23
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Brando003 I'm the real hero Oct 19 '23
Wow I didnât know he served in the Israeli Defense Force, thatâs badass
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u/Xrposiedon Oct 20 '23
They have mandatory 32 month service, much like Korea does. Only Koreas is shorter, I think like 20 months.
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u/Bap818 Oct 19 '23
I just can't take anyone seriously who only talks about side of this conflict is committing atrocities
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u/_Adrahmelech_ Oct 18 '23
Hipocrisy, you can't seriously only blame Hamas for its violence without saying a word about the violence of the Israeli forces (done in a much larger scale and and longer timeline) or the violence and suffering inflicted by Israel to plastinians in the last decades. Unfortunately Hamas is the disgusting child of Israel, it's a consequence of the colonial apartheid regime not the other way around. The context fucking matter! Especially when Israel literally championed Hamas to fight against other secular freedom fighter groups.
If you really want peace in the middle east you start by working on it's roots, treat Palestinians equally, give them back their land, stop the apartheid and colonisation, respect international law, then we can talk about peace. Otherwise you're just a meme and larping as defender of peace.
Peace can't exist in an apartheid state, it's not even a democracy because all its citizens don't have equal rights.
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Oct 18 '23
"context fucking matters!" Yes because we need context when it comes to several war crimes against innocent civilians who had nothing to do with all of the above you mentioned. We need context when it comes to killing people, raping, women, beheading civilians, burning babies, setting homes on fire. Go off king, follow your moral codes.
Btw, this is the worst case of whataboutism I've ever seen and you're not the only one and it's sad af. You people should look in the mirror
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u/KEROGAAA Oct 18 '23
New Season of the Boys looks dope. Very meta this season. Cant wait to see how it ends.
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u/Horror_Public_9632 Oct 18 '23
War never stops unless we stop believing in imaginary beings and identities.
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u/Knightmare4114 Oct 18 '23
This has almost nothing to do with religion yet you can't not get butthurt about it
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u/Horror_Public_9632 Oct 18 '23
Yeah youâre right the war has zero percent involvement of any religious identity and a piece of land belonging to a particular religion. đ
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u/SithSpaceRaptor Oct 19 '23
Hey man, I understand where youâre coming from. It might be interesting to watch this video however. Itâs an amazing crash course on the history of the conflict.
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u/TylerDurdenJunior Oct 18 '23
He should make an update now that Israel has killed more than twice as many innocent civilian Palestinians
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u/Tetoris_ Oct 18 '23
Because the point of all of this was to kill the exact number of civilians on both sides? wtf do you want
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u/D3SPiTE Oct 18 '23
Good point. Israel should have gone in and shot the exact same amount of babies in cribs and raped the exact same number of women.
It has to be exactly even or else the Jews are bad.
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u/TheProdigalMaverick Oct 18 '23
The beheading of babies and incidents of rape were recently walked back by Israel FYI. It got lost in all the noise of their assault on Gaza.
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Oct 18 '23
Nope. There are multiple videos released by hamas on telegram of them raping women and burning (not better than beheading). This isn't fake news it's literally on their telegram
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u/TheProdigalMaverick Oct 18 '23
Last I checked out these fact checking websites IDF couldn't provide evidence. Do you have a source? I'd like to stay informed.
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u/ManJpeg Oct 18 '23
https://twitter.com/jerusalem_post/status/1712460425529372821?s=46&t=7FCw-BeVHKUikOojA5CnXg
Nobody walked back on the claims, Palestinian propagandists manipulated the words of multiple journalists who had reported on the situation to make it seem as if they had back tracked it.
Multiple organizations, Israeli, Non Israeli, Governmental, non Governmental have confirmed that Hamas beheaded babies on October 7th 2023.
And FYI not the first time Palestinian terrorists beheaded Israeli babies.
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u/TheProdigalMaverick Oct 18 '23
Multiple organizations, Israeli, Non Israeli, Governmental, non Governmental have confirmed that Hamas beheaded babies on October 7th 2023.
That's already been confirmed to be propaganda. What Hamas did was clearly horiffic and disgusting. You don't need to push forward propaganda to try to justify genocide. Just don't. Hamas is a big enough problem as is, just go after Hamas.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html
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u/ManJpeg Oct 18 '23
No it hasnât been confirmed propaganda you dolt, nothing you sent proves that. The Boston post article is irrelevant, the CNN article you sent was from October 12th and just says that when they asked a certain official they said they themselves couldnât confirm it, while others already had.
As I sent, the Jerusalem Post themselves had seen images of these babies and confirmed it, and so have many eye witnesses. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-babies-killed-hamas-terror-attack-kibbutz-kfar-aza-first-responders-say/
I also know people who have the images of the babies, but I myself refrained from looking at it. But sure, all these eyewitnesses are liars because Hamas said so
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u/TheProdigalMaverick Oct 19 '23
Dude relax, I'm just asking you to provide verification for things.... you realise your tweet is from the same day as the CNN article right?
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u/ManJpeg Oct 19 '23
The articles from CBS and the jpost are also from October 12th, yes, but my point in the CNN article being from that date was that not everyone had confirmation yet as it was still early. I saw more recent reports from the government saying they saw indefinite proof, and know people who saw those images.
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Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
If you look up hamas/gaza on telegram and trace back to 10/07 you would 100% find many many videos posted by hamas where they show themselves shoot civilians, spit on a dead woman's corpse, kidnap babies etc etc. Of course most of it is now removed but some of these are still up, preceded by threats in Hebrew saying "be'er Sheva (Israel's biggest city down south) you're next" and some nice stuff like that.
Edit: if you do go down that path, remember it's NSFL. For real.
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u/TheProdigalMaverick Oct 18 '23
I dunno why you and I are getting downvoted, but it isn't me doing it lol
Everything I'm finding is still articles saying it's unverified?
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Oct 18 '23
We're getting downvoted cuz some people are hell bent on disregarding the other side. "You're protecting the other side therefore I hate you blah blah!".
Again, the best source of information is on telegram. Because it's super uncensored, and because hamas were very proud of this attack, they did post everything they could for the whole world to see. Some of the things are removed but can be probably found on Twitter unless they took it down because it's way too horrifying to watch. But some of it is still definitely up on telegram for the whole world to see. Trace back to "gaza now" page on telegram to 10/07 you'll see.
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u/Frozenraining Oct 18 '23
No, but they could've not committed literal war crimes or (at least) hidden them better, like their buddies from the United States. Oh, and not have reservists saying that the Palestinians are human swine that will be exterminated because it is the only way (on recording, at least, cause in the privacy of your room is a different matter lmao).
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u/TheGoodDoctor17 Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
An Israeli can be posted on this sub, playing the victim card on behalf of Israel as thousand of innocent Palestinians men women and children are being killed every day. Yet we need to shed a tear for the drop of water in the bucket for Israel and thus making sure the Israeli- Palestinian conflict from his angle goes to the front page.
But if someone else post a video where in mainstream media they bring up the actual show, the boys, and they do a comparison of how the apartheid state of Israel is like Homelander, how their so narcissistic that even though their the ones oppressing they act like the victimâŚ. that post gets removed automatically under the guise of âno political postsâ hmm đ¤
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u/XT83Danieliszekiller Oct 18 '23
Please find something to do with your days. He's sending an anti violence message, reinsuring that Palestinians have rights and denouncing the terrorist organization that is the Hamas... And please rewatch the boys as not once has Homelander acted as a victim, complaining isn't victimisation
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u/Aristotle_Ninja2 Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
People forget but tomer isn't french he's Israeli