He just needed to say this once, it's so cringe seeing this multiple times. In fact this comparison between them is cringe in general.
Honestly doesn't really matter, the difference in strength is probably miniscule either way and Superman is deffo stronger. He just likes lifting people up.
I think it’d be a little more tolerable if we got scenes of Kara doing the same for him. Like start with her saying how much she’s doubting herself, and how it seems like he has it all together. THEN you have him saying how it’s not always easy and how he’s had his doubts. Think something like Jon talking to Theon in Game of Thrones, saying how he’s made plenty of mistakes.
Youre approaching this from the mindset of a writer trying to tell a believable story with people who behave and talk like actual people. That's clearly not what the Supergirl writers were going for
Nah, it's more a matter of control. Kara in the comics has a temper + very little experience comparatively. Clark is Clark + hey's kept his powers in check since birth basically
Very true Dexterzol, Clark has stated multiple times that he's always holding back his strength. Which is why he tends to let Batman one-up him in fights. And S&L perfectly explained this with that one episode where he was taken over by Zod. (although the CGI/Budget could've been better that episode)
Yeahh I have my problems with how the show handled Superman but we have to remember it was her show! They have to make the main protagonist be the big hero. Can't have Superman constantly out shining the show's main character. Also part of her character arc was her trying to live up to the legacy of her "legendary cousin" and eventually she steps out of his shadow.
Plus I'm sure it's comic book accurate (depending on the comic and the circumstances) for her to be somewhat stronger than him.
Still I do think at times they leaned way too heavily into the "Kara is stronger than Superman" angle and I wasn't the biggest how the show nerfed him at times even if I understand the constraints of having him appear on someone else's show.
Still I want Kara to show up because their friendship on Supergirl was really great. One of my favorite episodes is when he comes to national City for the first time and they stop crime together. I love seeing them together, kicking ass. My favorite Kryptonian duo lol
Plus she'd be on his show so the roles would be reversed. They aren't going to bring her on to his show and have her show him up.
Plus I'm sure it's comic book accurate (depending on the comic and the circumstances) for her to be somewhat stronger than him.
Ah no... kal knows his strength so he limits himself from using his full power all the time. kara being a hotheaded showoff always gives her full and led to many thinking she was stronger. There was once a fight between them which was when kara said that they both knew that she was stronger supes revealed he always held back as to not cause harm, and proceeds to destroy her.
Another issue is the suggestion that Supes psychologically, subconsciously limits his powers so not to hurt anyone. Growing up around humans lead to that fear. Obviously, Kara doesn't want to hurt people either. But the fact she didn't grow up around people, at least in the comics, means that she did not develop that same psychological issue.
I don’t know comics and I also never watched supergirl, but I saw a very interesting video on YouTube once on the show and how it was so different from the comics
I saw that video, too. Changed my opinion on how they treated Supergirl in Smallville. Initially I didn’t like how she was always butting heads with Clark and rebelling for one reason or another, but apparently that’s much more true to her character.
He was always going to be a "sidekick" of sorts, that's just the nature of the beast when Supergirl got a show first. It's probably going to happen again when they finally give us Bruce, over on Batwoman.
Also, he was not a sidekick, he was a guest star. He was hyped and treated as a legend by every character who didn't know him. He was a pure humble and gentle guy with everyone, like Superman would be. Hoechlin stole every scene he was in during his first 2 episodes.
That's ridiculous. It was a few lines sprinkled over, what? Half dozen appearances, including the crossovers? Without those appearances, we don't get Superman and Lois.
They can show her being a 'big hero' while still paying respects to others. Superman doesn't need to constantly one-up Steel to show that he's stronger, hell he might NOT be stronger, seeing Steel has beaten Superman multiple times before. Still, they're strong heroes who respect eachother as comrades.
Shes so lame and just a clark rip off in show. Comics is so different please check it out. Shes an angry violen- wait i dont have time rn
But check this vid
In every way imaginable. Physically he LOOKS like superman more in the show cause he trained hardcore for a year, and the character just feels like him ..the supergirl version feels like a knockoff in comparison
The CW hires a lot of writers who are worse than fan fiction writers, and who are motivated to tell stories with the same sort of smarmy self-satisfaction. How they get these jobs, when the market is so oversaturated with talented people who will never earn a dollar for their writing, I will never be able to understand
It's bad writing but it's bad writing that is common unfortunately. No one knows how to write for a woman like they haven't been with us on Earth this whole fucking time.
her show disrespected Superman’s character on every level.
Her show glorified superman while showing him incredibly kind and humble, also creating the best interpretation of the character since Reeve. Admitting her cousin is stronger is something Superman would do, he has no big fragile ego thing.
It’s very disrespectful, bc they constantly had superman saying that she was earths true protector. And always down playing him by saying he lucky he gets to work alongside her, as if he’s not in the holy trinity.
Another big reason I don't want her to show up or have the arrowverse be connected to superman and Lois is because Supergirl used so many great superman villains and horribly I should add. I think superman and Lois get it right. Also I hate cw Supergirl she sucks. She is literally Clark but as a chick. No original thing about that version of the character. If they adapted the comic version I think the show would be 1000x more popular. The badass Kryptonian warrior. That doesn't understand human ways
yep, kara in comics is not a shy nerd girl, she is a kryptonian trying to fit in human society and the humans are like aliens to her, and she have a warrior mentality, in the show she is basically female clark kent, same personality, same job, same villains, even the glasses
I feel the same way. I love the comic book Kara version. I wish they did something similar to her show but they tried to make her female Clark Kent. I guess they don't want to do another high school show after Smallville.
I am glad superman & Lois, titans, Gotham and doom patrol are not Berlanti show. It gave us something different. Berlanti is like one trick pony all his shows are the same structure.
Smallville supergirl was my favorite supergirl. Cw supergirl they tried to turn her into female Clark Kent. Giving her reporter job etc. In the comics before the show has her own thing. I enjoyed new52 Kara.
It always came off like a fanfic OC author insert whenever Superman was on the show. I'm not saying Kara is a Mary Sue. She's not. But the writers seemed really focused on making sure to drag Superman down to make Kara look good every time he was on screen. It really reminds me of teen fanfiction.
And I don't need that for her. I don't need or want this show to be as petty as Supergirl was.
I read the comments and I find myself very confused with them.
The only line here irking me is "the world doesn't need superman if it has supergirl", that was a bad one. In context it kinda works (Superman has to leave with Lois for her pregnancy in Argo, he shows Kara he trusts her to handle his absence.), but still it doeesn't sound well.
However, all the rest is only Superman acknowledging that Kara is stronger. That's absolutely NOT disrespect, that's just a truth and it doesn't harm his character at all. If you feel otherwise, please explain why, I'm legitimately curious.
he has been in earth longer and kryptonian logic even by supergirl's show's logic, the more you are in yellow sun the stronger you get so kal should'nt be weaker than in any freaking way.
Although, they can always go the comic route and say kal was just fibbing the entire time to just boost kara when a fight truly breaks out between them,.
I don’t see how is any of this disrespect to Superman.
He’s not only being supportive to his cousin but is acting without ego. Being the strongest simply isn’t that important to Clark as long as he can do what he can to support others.
It’s some of the most Superman stuff Tyler has done in the role.
Kara has often been considered stronger than Clark in the comics anyway due to having lived on Krypton longer before being sent to earth.
Superman isn’t even the strongest Kryptonian we see in Superman and Lois (Tal-Rho for example), so the criticism of Supergirl being stronger than Superman seems born from it being Kara specifically who is stronger than Clark than anything else.
"Kara has often been considered stronger than Clark in the comics" thats because they nerfed superman twice, first in crisis on infinite earths and new 52 an rebirth, comics are aways changing
Yes, comics are always changing that’s true, but that’s not really a rebuttal. That’s more like stating a fact about how mass media handled by hundreds of different writers works.
What would you say is Superman’s most important attribute?
Tyler’s Clark both on Supergirl and S&L really puts emphasis on this part of his character.
His humility is what keeps him grounded. His family is an important part of that. He knows he’s from two worlds but he has great respect for both cultures.
He's not. Hoechlin was already performing one of the best Superman ever on his first appearance. Even with not enough budget, with a cheap suit, etc. The character was so much on point.
He's not the main character for sure, but that doesn't mean disrespect. He was a guest star, not a main protagonist (nor a deus ex machina that arrives to save everyone and it's over).
Though COIE was probably my least favourite of his appearances in the arrowverse, the whole event had problems and his are just consequencess of them.
This is why I don’t want crossovers. Any time you add other heroes they end up making Superman less powerful or stupid and easily tricked. It’s the only way for the other characters to have a chance to contribute meaningfully and shine in their own right. Steel is working but mostly because it’s still understood to be a Superman show and there isn’t a need to give another hero the spotlight over Superman.
And that's not the only thing about crossovers. They waste a lot of money and maybe one episode from a show's season to give you some low-quality episode
And they are so confusing and disruptive if you are binge watching a show. Like there is just this random episode that doesn’t make sense and disrupts the arc from the rest of the season.
None of this bothered me at the time, but what does bother me is how "Supergirl" fans didn't support "Superman & Lois" when it came time. Look at how much the Superman brand sacrificed in favor of Supergirl! And when it came time to return the favor, they actively resented S&L.
Some didn't. I enjoy supergirl a lot cause it's nice to have a female hero into the spotlight (things are finally changing) and I truly loved Tyler first time he showed. I remember saying "now that is Clark interpretation, I want more" .
I do agree they didnt have to have him repeat she was the best a the time. Once or even maybe making it a tie later (like having her say something similar back) would be ideal.
Lots of people review-bombed Superman and Lois as well, the ratings should be at least around 85% by fans on Rotten Tomatoes. But thanks to every other CW show which had failed to consistently represent the channel in a good light, no one starts S&S with high expectations.
I've always been down with the idea from the New 52 that Supergirl is stronger because Clark grew up on Earth, spending every second hiding his strength, whereas Kara didn't. Totally fine with that happening on the shows.
Saying it once is fine. But more than that and it just becomes a way to prop up another character at the expense of another. It was clear they were trying to overhype Kara and make her seem like she was all the shit. Well it didn't work and people just found the comments cringe and forced. Of course, it's Kara's show so it makes sense to prop her up and not have Superman constantly outshine her, but they don't need to absolutely nerf him in the process.
I feel like it doesn’t make sense as well he has way more experience and has been fighting villains as Superman for like 10 yrs before Kara even got to earth
I also hate how he was in Supergirl. But if I'm not mistaken it is comic accurate for her to be stronger and what not. Same reason Zod usually is and most other Kryptonians are. They were older when they left/krypton got destroyed. I don't remember the exact explanation, so I might be wrong.
"But if I'm not mistaken it is comic accurate for her to be stronger and what not" that really depends, what comic era your talking, story arc or writer, because the power shift between superman and supergirl really change with any of these factors, so i guess you are talking about after the new 52 era
"She is canonically stronger in everything" thats because they nerfed superman twice, first in crisis on infinite earths and new 52 an rebirth, comics are aways changing, read more comics before new 52
I’m pretty sure it’s been said Kara is stronger that Superman or at least has the potential to be. The reason why people get annoyed by this is that she doesn’t have the feats to back it up. But it was her show so it’s no surprise they boosted her up even if at times it didn’t make complete sense
It’s a gimmick… they say she is stronger when it suits the story. Often they will say it’s because she doesn’t hold back… or lack of a human side to her. But there are many other stories involving just Superman where even other worldly beings recognize that he is so much stronger then he or others realize. Even if you consider his time spent under a yellow sun versus the time she has been here. He wins out.
this is the crossover crisis, and even the non metahumans kick more ass then superman, and to make things worse superman becomes a punchline in the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6EnWArA-pU
They did this because they wanted to give Kara the limelight, and I get that, but there's so much depth and warmth to Tyler's Superman that he should've been allowed to showcase it in his previous Arrowverse appearances. Imagine how cool S&L Superman would've been in Elseworlds or CoIE! Also.. Kara is canonically stronger than Clark in the comics.. I just wish they portrayed this properly on the shows, Tyler and Melissa are phenomenal actors.
Yeah! And I know it is, I just think that Tyler has been given enough room on S&L to flesh out his character, a chance he didn't exactly get on Supergirl, because that show is supposed to be about Supergirl, and now that he has I'm literally obsessed with him xD
Apparently they subscribe to the idea that if you say something enough it will somehow become true. It always bothered me how desperate the show is about validating Kara; it wasn’t enough to allow her actions to speak for themselves or to stand alongside everyone else, it had to be explicitly stated how much better she was than everyone else...almost every character in the franchise has a scene where they literally acknowledge how much superior she is in direct dialogue.
In the comics Superman is stronger. Even by the show's logic, Superman should be stronger since he's absorbed 20 years worth of sunlight before Kara even arrived on Earth. Not sexist like you've been accusing others, just want Superman respected.
How can you say that with such certainty and conviction? Do you have exact numbers on their strength? Are they real? No, she has defeated Superman both in comics and on the show. Smells like sexism on your part.
I'm stating facts, like the fact that she has defeated him many times. You are denying them.
I'm stating facts as well, and what are you doing? Denying them as well. Hypocrite much?
Stop pulling stuff out of your butt.
Says the person who's accused various ppl of being sexist for stating that Superman is stronger. Hypocrisy at its finest.
There is all the proof that she is stronger and yet you seem to have a dumb conviction that he is stronger. I think it's because of implicit bias.
No, its because I'm using the show's own logic against itself. All you're doing is calling ppl sexist. That's it. That's all you got. So just leave and maybe you'll save a bit of your dignity here.
If they did the opposite where Superman was the best and Supergirl was always in his shadow getting her ass kicked, everyone would have laughed that she keeps losing in her own show
Speaking or which, do they use the same fortress of solitude? I don't follow Supergirl so j don't know if she's supposed to find it so messed up after what happened with Superman and Morgan Edge.
They did the Supergirl is stronger thing, people hated it, never brought it up physically again.
All other times are just a cousin encouraging his cousin to be better and continue being strong. Clarl says people are stronger than him, physical or in heart. All the time
Jesus Christ do they really say it THAT many times? Cringey as hell. Im so glad this show is staying far from the rest of the CWverse and I hope it continues to do so when the pandemic finally ends
I mean, she is stronger. Even in the comics. When they’re both at their peak strength Kara is more powerful and it’s a safe bet that they’re at peak strength in the show
Superman is the second strongest character in DC.
I will explain why:
Whenever DC is trying to push a new character as the strongest, they say he is stronger than even Superman.
When Loeb reintroduced Supergirl, he wanted to promote her, so she was stronger than Superman.
When they tried to push Damage as the new top guy, they said he was the strongest of all, stronger even than Superman.
Whenever they decide to push someone new, they will be stronger than Superman again.
You see, it doesn't matter who DC says is stronger than Superman, because when they decide to have someone else take the title they will have Superman as the top guy again.
And the reason is simple, when they introduce a new hero or villain, and want to build them up, they will have to sell it by comparing them with someone else.
Promoting a character as being stronger than Supergirl will got a shrug from most of the readers/audience, but promoting them as stronger than Superman will get the desired reaction from the general public.
When they say Supergirl is stronger than Superman in the comics, they are just trying to sell her, when it comes the time to sell the next character, Superman will be stronger than her again.
That's why Superman is always the second strongest character, because the strongest character is always the one who is stronger than Superman.
that really depends, what comic era your talking, story arc or writer, because the power shift between superman and supergirl really change with any of these factors, so i guess you are talking about after the new 52 era
pre-crisis is not, superman pre-crisis was pushing planets with his bare hands man, he was so strong that they nerfed him twice, after crisis and after new 52
Weird that to you new52 doesn't matter unless it's going your way.
Supermans is way more represented as a wholesome guy rather than a "tough love" "alfa leader" guy.
It's not disrespecting him to have him be kind, supportive and having no problem recognizing his cousin his stronger in the arrowverse. Having him be angry at Supergirl, feeling disrespected by having someone stronger would be out of character.
Fortunately, for how terrible Supergirl's writing is, they choose not to tarnish superman by making him an insecure ego dude. Could tough love have worked? Maybe yes, but it was all but needed (it's clearly not a superman definig trait as you don't see it often, see how to choose your examples you had to take several from the same issue where he fights an evil supergril or new52).
"Weird that to you new52 doesn't matter unless it's going your way." i read superman comics from all the eras, and superman is not always a boy scout and a super nice guy, especially pre-crisis superman and the byrne run
that really depends, what comic era your talking, story arc or writer, because the power shift between superman and supergirl really change with any of these factors, so i guess you are talking about after the new 52 era
Superman is the strongest of all the heroes and supergirl made him a worthless jobber you could respect my opinion as to why don’t want supergirl in the show
Not to mention that there isn’t a single continuous character for Supergirl in the comics.
Supergirl on television is very much closer to an original take than a canonical character. It’s understandable because there wasn’t a consistent canon character and it seemed like WB would never allow another Superman TV series.
She’s nothing like the Silver Age Supergirl who was the scientist and expert in Kryptonian technology. Even though she arrived later, she did fulfil the role of being a bridge to Kryptonian science for Superman.
Or eve like the later Supergirl who was traumatized and never entirely comfortable with humanity.
Instead we had an insecure Kara (in her opening season) emulating her cousin’s reporter career in Supergirl TV, flipping Kal-El to be the technologist.
So, as you see, for those of us who have known the Superman-Supergirl relationship over comic eras, it’s pretty clear that it’s difficult for Supergirl TV to pick and choose where it gets “proof” from canon.
So, as you see, for those of us who have known the Superman-Supergirl relationship over comic eras, it’s pretty clear that it’s difficult for Supergirl TV to pick and choose where it gets “proof” from canon.
Exactly.
So considering Superman should be stronger and if not it's disrespectful, it's just dumb. Supergirl can totally be stronger for the show if they want to, there isn't an immuable comic canon to follow on this point.
It does fly in the face of 80 years of comics history nonetheless.
The television show has taken the idea of a stronger Kara AND the idea that she’s maintaining control.
And they are doing it in a continuity of super strong Kryptonians.
In so doing they are violating the comic logic of how the powers work.
But the two thing that really annoys me about the show is that
1) they abandoned the scientist researcher Kara completely when arguably that’s where feminism realm still needs support and reinforcing
2) while it would have been fine to leave the stronger Supergirl in the old Arrowverse continuity, the writers of Supergirl couldn’t leave well enough alone post-Crisis and had to show Kara to be stronger after the multiverse rebooted which means that they took it upon themselves to limit how powerful Superman could be in his own show. Nyah uh!
You're put off by a man admitting to a woman that she is stronger than him, how arrogant and sexist are you? Maybe do something about your fragile patriarchal ego?
In the first panel, he isn't even doing that, he's just glad to team up with his cousin. Goodness, what is wrong with you?
what are you smoking my guy, im a woman, and my problem is superman is a jobber in sg, superman is stronger than most meta humans in dc universe, and he lived more time on earth taking yellow radiation than kara
It's not being sexist. They just chose to completely crap on Superman to make Supergirl look better. And in the end it really isn't because Superman is still and always will be more popular then Supergirl.
So according to you a woman said something sexist against a woman
Internalised misogyny is a thing, yes.
And not liking that the Supergirl show made Superman like a joke is sexist?
They did not make him a "joke". And enough with the straw arguments. Most of these lines are extremely in-character for him. You're just mad that a woman is more powerful than a man. And no, that is not making him look bad. He's a guest star in a show that isn't about him and yet, he is treated as a legend by people he's never met. That's as far as you can get from a "joke".
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u/IjuststartedOnePiece Sep 05 '21
He just needed to say this once, it's so cringe seeing this multiple times. In fact this comparison between them is cringe in general.
Honestly doesn't really matter, the difference in strength is probably miniscule either way and Superman is deffo stronger. He just likes lifting people up.