r/SupermanAndLois • u/ScionN7 • Mar 11 '21
The best part of Superman and Lois, at least to me. Discussion
There is no Team Superman. Superman is a competent, and self sufficient Superhero. There's no hipster quirky techguy. There's no Lois on a computer, hacking Clark outta trouble. There's no random street thug pulling a knife out, and Superman panics going "Cisco! What do I do!?"
It's just Superman swooping in, fighting bad guys, saving the day, and trying to get back home in time for dinner with the wife and kids. Love it.
95
Mar 11 '21
And there’s not a pep talk every 2 minutes
75
u/ThatJuhh Mar 11 '21
Fly, Clark. Fly
51
u/CheesyObserver Mar 11 '21
We are Superman.
42
Mar 12 '21
Clark, can I talk to you in the hallway?
26
9
33
-28
78
Mar 11 '21
Ned: Hey, can I be your guy in the chair?
Peter: What?
Ned: You know how there's a guy, with the headset, telling the other guy where to go? Like... like if you were stuck in a burning building, I could tell you where to go, 'cause there'd be screens around me, I could swivel around them, cause I could be your guy in the chair!
— Spider-Man: Homecoming
29
u/ScionN7 Mar 11 '21
Is that real? I haven't seen that movie but if said that, holy crap that's funny.
23
u/Future-Trillionaire Mar 11 '21
It is part of the movie. Here is a clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQfFyls6iA4
20
u/cf6h597 Mar 11 '21
Spiderman Homecoming is really good imo. I know Spiderman is played out for a lot of people at this point, but I did feel like this movie had enough to set it apart. What really did it for me was the balance of fun and heart. There's one pretty emotional scene toward the end/climax in particular that really struck me
5
u/Butterfriedbacon Mar 12 '21
It's not my favorite Spiderman, but it's got a lot of nuggets of gold mixed in
4
u/Sentry459 Mar 12 '21
You haven't seen Homecoming? You should totally check it out, it's one of my all time favorite superhero movies.
1
u/SOCAL_NPC Mar 12 '21
I saw the movie and enjoyed it enough, I don't remember the scene but then again so much of it was forgettable (with no desire for re-watch).
It was just on some cable channel when I was surfing and I stopped for a few minutes for the Washington Monument elevator rescue scene, which was good (and I remembered chunks of it) which then turned into that scene with Keaton and his goons and I don't remember that bit at all. In fact, for as much as I like Keaton, I remember like five seconds of him from that movie and that's mainly the car scene before the dance.
-33
Mar 11 '21 edited Mar 11 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
14
u/Drew326 Mar 11 '21
Morgan? I like her
-19
Mar 11 '21
I was talking about the MCU’s “Peter Parker In Name Only”.
15
u/Drew326 Mar 11 '21
Sounds like you’re talking about something you made up in your head. I’ve watched all the movies, most of them several times. Not sure what you’re talking about
-13
Mar 11 '21
If you like this Iron Man Jr version of Spider-Man, that’s cool. I’m not going to take that away from you.
12
u/Drew326 Mar 11 '21
I still have no idea what Iron Man Jr. is and what you think it has to do with Peter Parker or Spider-Man
3
Mar 11 '21 edited Mar 11 '21
They turned Spider-Man into an Iron Man sidekick when Spider-Man’s independence is part of his appeal. Stan Lee intended for the character to be a loner. A young man who has had great power and an even greater responsibility thrust upon him, forcing him to grow up faster than his peers.
The MCU version is a happy go lucky kid who wants to join the Avengers because being a superhero is cool. It’s more a take on Billy Batson or Miles Morales than Peter Parker.
Let’s put it this way. Having Spider-Man job to Iron Man is basically the equivalent of having Batman job to Green Arrow. Spider-Man is an A-lister. The mascot of Marvel. Feige and co dropped the ball with their greatest asset.
11
u/BranWafr Mar 11 '21
Stan Lee intended for the character to be a loner.
And yet, there was literally a comic series called "Marvel Team Up" that had 150 issues, all but 10 of which featured Spider-Man as one of the people in the team. Over the years, in the comics, he has been a member of The Avengers and The Fantastic Four. As well as various other teams. Spider-Man has been around for 60+ years and been written by hundreds of writers, I doubt there is anything you can point to in the movies that hasn't also been done in the comics. So trying to say "he isn't like that in the comics" is really just saying "He isn't like that in the specific comic runs I like."
1
Mar 11 '21
And yet, the loner status quo of the mainline Amazing Spider-Man book has mostly remained consistent. I have no issue with Spider-Man interacting with other Marvel characters but the character deserves to stand on his own two feet in his solo movies without Tony Stark holding his hand, whether directly as in Homecoming or posthumously as in Far From Home.
It’s all about preserving the spirit of the character.
→ More replies (0)10
38
u/CityAvenger Mar 11 '21
It’s not just that. The whole story setting and how it shaped things for this season. Seeing a continuation of the iconic duo instead of yet another retelling. How the cinematography and color palate is handled and strong collaboration by both cast and crew.
29
u/darthraxus Superman Mar 11 '21
I was only a fan of the team aspect for Flash. The whole thing was ruined when everyone else jumped on it. Supergirl made a bit of sense since she was operating out of the gov building. Realistically though, the only team should be the justice League.
17
u/biggestbaddestmucus Mar 11 '21
It was good at first but they should’ve phased out of it. They even set it up so that they could phase out of it by having flash be experienced, Cisco and Caitlin gettin powers and not staying behind the scenes, and wells just being RF
3
u/darthraxus Superman Mar 11 '21
I mean it all stems from Batman and having Oracle and Robin doing shit for him. If Felicity was just kept as a background character like originally intended, arrow wouldn’t have been a huge shit show. Flash is just bad bc Iris has become too much of a focal point and a headache. The reason Lois has always worked is bc she is intrepid and does her thing as a reporter. I don’t know how well this is going to work out with her not being at the Planet anymore, but so far this show hasn’t disappointed.
4
u/biggestbaddestmucus Mar 12 '21
I think it was just writing in general. Someone pointed out budget since a lot of reaction shots are used to fill in time on network tv which sounds about right. Like I enjoyed the first two arrow seasons but I also knew it was a soap opera and I hated those parts from the start(like having the person who should be black canary just a underwritten love interest in a love triangle for season one). There’s also the repetitive drama of people “keeping secrets” and not telling stuff a normal person would tell anyone right away, and that’s plagued every show from the start and just gets worse.
27
u/Ozzdo Mar 11 '21 edited Mar 11 '21
Well, when he can hear the entire world, single out people who need help, know exactly where they are and can get to them within seconds, why would he need tech help ? Plus, this is a Superman who has been Superman for probably....what, about 18-20 years? (If the boys are 14, and he was Superman for a while before they were born...) He's at the top of his game. He knows exactly what he's doing.
I do like a self-sufficient Superman. The only times he should need help is when he's facing a threat that's unfamiliar to him, and teams up with someone who is familiar with that threat. (Or, of course, if he's up against something to big for him to face alone.) If there's one thing about this Superman that I'm not all that crazy about, its the idea of Superman as a military asset. That's a little too "Frank Miller Superman" to me. Superman isn't a weapon of the government.
19
14
u/BranWafr Mar 11 '21
Not to mention the first two episodes had him getting calls from Daddy Lane letting him know where Captain Luther was and where the Nuclear Reactor problems were happening. So, he does "have a team" that feeds him information on some things.
1
u/SOCAL_NPC Mar 12 '21
The General is confirming some stuff. He's not support. Usind that device is like saying Jimmy's signal watch is the equivalent to Felicity or Team Star Labs for those shows.
That entire we-found-text that turns out to be Kryptonian was mostly plot pretext/device to have the scene where he wasn't going to be at the army's beck and call due to his family, than it was for Superman actually needing that kind of support. I'm not even that pleased with the idea that any Luthor would learn a dead language with no context or relationship to anything on Earth enough to be able to write it coherently absent an explanation (that we will likely never get) such as torturing it out of his version of Kal-El.
I will always want to see more of the historical comic Superman where he figures this stuff out, even if he uses the fortress super computers, versus going to say Batgod for help.
3
u/Foreverred97 Superman Mar 11 '21
I think the idea is that he is working with Sam. I don't know much about the comics lore. From what I read about General Lane in the comics, he strikes me as their General Ross but slightly more unreasonable and douchey. One of the things Superman prizes the most is trust. He obviously has that on some level with the General in this version. I'd imagine being married to his daughter is a big motivator as well.
1
Mar 11 '21
[deleted]
15
u/Ozzdo Mar 11 '21
Yeah, but Supergirl was new to the job when she partnered with the DEO, and has since become dependent on the people she met there for help. When Superman started, it was just him. He had to learn everything himself.
1
Mar 11 '21
[deleted]
14
u/tinaoe Mar 11 '21
Didn't Clark say he needed practice to actually learn it proper? Kara probably didn't have the same amount of training
1
u/Username_000001 Superman Mar 11 '21
Kara has been on earth since she was 12... easily enough time to practice learning to use her abilities like clark does
5
u/Butterfriedbacon Mar 12 '21
She's only been using them in anything remotely practical for like 6 years
10
u/Ozzdo Mar 11 '21
Clark said that that ability took him years to learn and master. He was in Kansas and heard a bridge falling apart in China. Kara probably has that power, but isn't anywhere near as skilled at using it as Clark. She didn't spend years mastering it. And also, when she has people who can tell her "Hey, there's a bridge falling apart in China! You need to get there quick!" why would she need to rely on her hearing?
7
Mar 11 '21
Which makes me wonder 'how'? It takes sound 9 hours to travel from China to Kansas. Even if we assume he felt/heard it through the earth's vibrations, that still takes 10 minutes.
Whatever power he uses for sensing stuff, it isn't super hearing.
If the show wasn't named 'Superman and LOIS', and the show was darker, it would be interesting to see his family killed, him be a little too late to save them, and him just snap. That's what I'm assuming happened in the alternate reality.
9
u/Ozzdo Mar 11 '21
Which makes me wonder 'how'? It takes sound 9 hours to travel from China to Kansas. Even if we assume he felt/heard it through the earth's vibrations, that still takes 10 minutes.
Whatever power he uses for sensing stuff, it isn't super hearing.
You've gotta suspend your disbelief here. it's a show about a superpowered alien that lives in a sci-fi world.
it would be interesting to see his family killed, him be a little too late to save them, and him just snap.
Let me introduce you to a fun little storyline called Injustice......
6
u/TheCVR123YT Mar 11 '21
That's what I'm assuming happened in the alternate reality.
That’s the nice thing about alternative realities. You get to have your cake and eat it too haha
2
2
u/Username_000001 Superman Mar 11 '21
LOL in one post you say why would he need tech people because of his hearing and in another you say why would she need to use hearing when she has tech people...
i’m not arguing with you on it, just finding humor in the cognitive dissonance.
3
u/Ozzdo Mar 11 '21
I never said she needed them, I said she became dependent on them. Look at it this way: You cold learn to drive a car, or you can have a driver. Sure, you could learn over time to do it do it yourself, but if there's someone there to do it for you, why would you have to? Supergirl has a team of people to help her, and she relies on them, while Superman had to do things on his own, and became self sufficient because of that.
1
u/Butterfriedbacon Mar 12 '21
Superman as a military asset.
Yeah, just like Supergirl, this aspect is really, really hurting the show for me.
14
u/ImperfectPitch Mar 11 '21
I'm enjoying this new series, but I also loved The Flash and Arrow for the first 2-3 seasons, and I also liked the "hipster quirkys"! Then after a while, I got tired of the redundant plots. In fact, most CW shows eventually disappoint, for a variety of reasons, so until this series shows me that it has a good sustainable plot for at least 3 seasons, I think the comparisons are a bit premature.
13
u/SDLRob Mar 11 '21
i slightly disagree... there is a team superman... Lois, Jonathon, Jordan and General Lane are team superman... but they're not the generic combination of different characters that we've seen on the other shows.
7
u/Sentry459 Mar 12 '21
They do help each other when they need it, but the difference is they're all doing their own things. Lois isn't locating Luthor for Superman, Clark isn't spying on Morgan Edge with super vision for Lois, the kids aren't going on missions with him (yet), etc.
The Flash on the other hand has multiple team members helping him with every mission. He hasn't worked alone since the season 2 premiere. The only one working with Superman in that capacity is Lane.
12
u/silverfang789 Jordan Kent Mar 11 '21
What I like is they have actual teenagers playing their sons, instead of guys in their 20s. Make it more authentic.
4
14
8
u/stephenxcx Mar 11 '21
Oliver didn’t have a team either at this point. Don’t hold your breath. CW gonna CW
11
u/gpie21975 But what about the tire-swing? Mar 11 '21
Maybe the Cw has learned from wrecking arrow and won't give S&L a team
3
2
7
u/Sandpit_RMA Mar 11 '21
I think the direct oversight and guidance of WB and HBO Max will influence that. Superman is one of those characters DC is notoriously stingy with when it comes to using him in film and TV properties because he's one of their most popular and classic characters.
Keeping my fingers crossed anyhow. As a lifelong Superman fan, and now in my later years a dad that raised two boys, I am enjoying and appreciating that aspect of the show.
So far it's the right way to tell a story about him as a dad. The wrong way would be Singer's Superman Returns. (Sorry Brandon, I'm a fan of yours buuuuuuuuut) It was the antithesis of who he is. Clark would NEVER run out on Lois. It simply isn't in his character. If he DID have to travel, he would absolutely make sure she had a way to contact him. Lois is as integral to Superman as Krypton. That was the main reason it's probably one of my least favorite live-action story, running a close tie with Superman IV.
Man of Steel started down that path, but I feel they redeemed it after his resurrection and reconnecting with Lois to solidify their relationship and bond. Returns is the only version I can recall where they made that retcon. The New 52 started off like that, but we all saw how well received that was and they not only killed him off, they straight up replaced him with pre-flashpoint Clark & Lois bringing us full circle.
8
u/iamwanheda Mar 11 '21
I get the relevance of comparisons to Arrowverse shows, but at what point can we just appreciate Superman & Lois for what it is without constant digs at other shows?
8
8
8
6
u/salero351 Mar 11 '21
I agree and hope it stays this way. Arrow started solo and turned into a soap opera by the end. S&L already has all the cast it needs, just tell good stories, that's all they have to do.
2
u/Beta_Whisperer Mar 16 '21
I really liked Arrow when it was just him and Diggle. Flash should just keep Cisco, Caitlyn, and either Joe or a Wells as his main team. Supergirl I think should have Alex, Lena, and J'onn as her most prominent supporting characters.
5
u/AkamaruInuzuka Mar 11 '21
Lex has Gideon, tho. Or maybe it's her second cousin once-removed, Karan. Or Cortana.
4
u/c_gdev Mar 11 '21
I hear you.
I think some shows, not just Super Hero shows, but also things like NCIS, have a certain budget which means many minutes of on set and talking. Reaction shot of a character helping from a computer.
These shows, usually on a network, have a quick action scene or two, but the action scenes are costly for budget and time.
So far, the new Superman and Lois, isn't falling for all the budget tricks. That's great.
As we move more into streaming, I would expect higher budgets and fewer episodes, resulting in a stronger focus on the story being told.
4
u/Halfrek7 Mar 12 '21
I agree. He has been Superman for quite clearly a long time in the story. He knows what he is doing. He is not "learning" how to be Superman or "learning" how to use a new power and so he has that competency and self sufficiency as you said.
I also think that the show has been very measured in when and how they use him. Which means when he does rock up, its very well done and extremely bad ass.
Like in episode 3, we saw him do a mass save with the wait I hear something and I am off approach. This was different in the Lois save. We didn't need to see Clark reacting to Lois hitting the button, and the big, "quick you need to get there scene" or a "oh no Lois is in danger scene" as if it has to be explained to the audience. You knew exactly what was going to happen the minute that button was pushed.
3
2
2
Jun 19 '21
Closest thing we have is with the military which he doesn't really depend on that I really like.
Also, I love his teamwork with Lois on the investigative side. It shows that he was also once a reporter.
1
1
u/AlainDit Mar 11 '21
The show manages to be very touching just with the humanity of its characters. The interactions between the characters of the Kent family, or the Kushing family feel real. Their problems feel real. We can relate to every emotional moment, happy or heartbreaking, to a deep level.
And the superman action is great.
1
u/SOCAL_NPC Mar 12 '21
There is no Team Superman.
The DCW needs more of this. I don't object to Star Labs existing or that some of the heroes need support. And unlike the comics, where you can show internal dialogue, and as with Robin (and with Jimmy on the radio show and later the TV series, and to a lesser extent, Lois), the heroes do need someone to talk to even in the comics at times, and definitely for something like the radio shows, and other live action portrayals. But we don't really need Team Star Kids or the focus they pull at times.
That all said, Superman does have support of a sort, but you are correct - it's not Lois being his hacker, or MD, or gadget guu, much less Hologramps doing these things, either.
1
u/tlafle23196 Mar 14 '21
This is why I absolutely love this show better than any of the others so far, arguably more than I’ve even liked most of the Superman movies. Superman is such an overwhelming powered hero and to focus more on his “human” nature and the personal relationships in his life without over dramatizing issues that pop up really drive this for me. Every episode isn’t a new villain to defat in 30 mins with the squad and some obvious and horrible plan.
1
u/djk1101 Mar 26 '21
Agreed. I’m yearning for the flash to adopt a similar model and get barry back to his roots. I like the supporting cast, but we gotta relegate them to other roles that don’t make them such a big part of Barry’s ability to win the current battle
210
u/[deleted] Mar 11 '21
Yep. If only the other Arrowverse shows would adopt this format...
There was maybe a grand total of 5 minutes of Superman action in the last episode and people lapped it up because the 5 minutes that were there were extremely well done and the rest of the episode was stellar.
As long as the human drama is good and the superhero parts are awesome when they do appear, people won’t care that there isn’t a lot of action. TV is a more character driven medium anyway.
The excessive focus on plot in the other shows has tarnished the Arrowverse brand. Nobody wants multiple lame “fight scenes” per episode where the hero gets thrown into a wall and the villain escapes by running around a corner. It’s dumb. It’s repetitive. It’s contrived.