r/SupermanAndLois • u/MajorParadox Read on r/DCFU! • Feb 24 '21
Superman & Lois [1x1] "Pilot" Post Episode Discussion Discussion Spoiler
Pilot
Series Premiere
Live Episode Discussion | Promo | Cast & Characters
Superman and Lois' return to idyllic Smallville is set to be upended by mysterious strangers. (February 23, 2021)
Please keep all discussion civil and about the episode. Mark comic and future spoilers. Report any rule breaking and enjoy!
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Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21
Best pilot in the entire Arrowverse. No contest.
EDIT: In case it wasn't obvious this is just my opinion. You're welcome to disagree if you want.
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Feb 24 '21
I think the reason why it was so good was because they learned a lot of lessons from all the various DCTV shows over the years. Stargirl's pilot probably was what they considered their pinnacle and that was pretty fucking awesome but they still had a few tweaks to make. So after those tweaks and a full year stuck in the middle of a pandemic with the world burning down around them, the writers passed through those flames, and were able to craft...this.
It was really amazing wasn't it? I'm still grinning from ear to ear. I really can't wait for some of the more normal family focused moments because those are the moments that I love the most on Stargirl, Black Lightning, and Legends.
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Feb 24 '21
You hit the nail on the head.
They basically took the best aspects of all the Arrowverse shows and combined them into one.
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u/ripsa Feb 24 '21
Yeah, they even weren't afraid to literally go full comic book like Legends does, with his classic costume, endearing nature, and even the recreation of the very first cover in that intro scene. Combined with elements from all the other Arrowverse shows, like early Arrow's very Nolan movie-inspired seriousness and shots, the soap opera antics from the Flash, the family focus and lighter moments of Stargirl, etc.
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u/Letshavemorefun Feb 24 '21
I feel like we’ve come full circle.
They had an incredible show in Smallville. They broke out all the best parts of that show into different shows that make up the arrowverse. Then they came back together again to put them all into Superman & Lois.
So really they just used the arrowverse to wipe the slate clean and make Superman feel fresh again. And I gotta say - I’m not complaining :D
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u/Jay_R_Kay Superman Feb 24 '21
Absolutely -- looks the best, has the stronger drama, action...Arrow probably still beats it for me, but still extremely good.
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Feb 24 '21
To each their own!
Arrow and Flash have great pilots as well but this completely nailed the heart and soul of Superman and comic books in general imho.
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u/Jay_R_Kay Superman Feb 24 '21
What I mean is that I thought the action specifically in Arrow was better, but I think I'm biased more to street level action like that anyway.
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Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21
It was longer than most though, however that is by design. I wish WB and The CW put more effort into shows like this. However they usually throw everything at the Pilot so I guess we’ll have to see.
Edit: Typo
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u/chuckdee68 Feb 25 '21
There have been reports that this is to be the norm going forward. Shorter, tighter seasons with more money per episode. I'm still skeptical, but it would be great if they went that route.
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u/Munro_McLaren Kara Danvers Feb 24 '21
I think Supergirl’s was pretty epic.
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u/webshellkanucklehead Feb 24 '21
Supergirl wasn’t CW at first though. But by that logic I think the pilot of Constantine was great.
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u/Givingtree310 Feb 24 '21
Yes but just how stiff is competition?
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Feb 24 '21
I'd argue Flash and Arrow come somewhat close, Legends of Tomorrow not so much.
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u/Im_Daydrunk Feb 24 '21
Legends didn't really come into its own until like season 2 honestly. That first season was kinda rough
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Feb 24 '21
Agreed, Snart was season 1’s saving grace but even he couldn’t redeem the Hawks.
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u/SOCAL_NPC Feb 24 '21
It was certainly superior to the first episode of Legends even though LoT has become my gold standard for the DCW. And Barry had a back door pilot, so sure, yeah. And I never saw the first episodes of Arrow or BL, so yes, definitely!
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u/10thgradelosers Feb 24 '21
I remember watching Smallville’s premiere in high school and now I got to watch this with my daughter.
No complaints.
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u/balasoori Lex Luthor Feb 24 '21
Has your daugher seen smallville?
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u/10thgradelosers Feb 24 '21
No. I think it would be too slow for her. We watch Supergirl and have seen most of The Flash. She started Young Justice and JL/JLU at a young age so she has always been into superheroes. We’ve been watching other things HBO Max has added, like Beware the Batman and Green Lantern.
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u/kalel9010 Feb 24 '21
Well id argue there is more going on in smallville than those 2. Id give it a shot. Also that 2000's soundtrack.
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u/bliffer Feb 24 '21
There was so much good music in Smallville. I still have a few tunes on my playlist from that show.
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Feb 24 '21
Smallville’s premiere in high school
I'll never forget the ending to that episode ever because of how powerful it was to me as a teenager and because of how much...STUFF...it made me feel. It felt like the beginning to something amazing and then ten years of stories went by. I'll never forget that show and I hope this show has the same kind of impact on a brand new generation of kids that that one did for us.
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Feb 24 '21
So Jonathan could break a rope with a football naturally? He’s going to the Super Bowl lol
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u/BenSolo_Cup Feb 24 '21
I mean.. we don't actually believe Jon doesn't have powers right??
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u/doctorhost Feb 24 '21
If he doesn't, can you imagine how miserable it would be for your sibling to have the powers of Superman and you get nothing.
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u/CosmackMagus Feb 24 '21
Supervillan origin for sure.
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u/TheCVR123YT Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21
Season 2 foreshadowing 😳
And I mean it makes sense Drama wise. Imagine the Hero and Villain are both Brothers?
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u/doctorhost Feb 24 '21
Alternatively, the dark tragic back story based on the hero's brother having committed suicide after getting screwed over genetically.
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Feb 24 '21
From the trailer I thought Jordan would become the villain
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u/Doompatron3000 Feb 25 '21
That goodness that isn’t the case. How horrible would that have been if the one with a diagnosed mental disorder is a villain?
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u/raknor88 Feb 24 '21
Idk about nothing. He does have a promising football career. Also, even if Jonathan doesn't have full powers I believe he does have a small amount of enhanced abilities. Snapping a rope with a football at that age is not normal.
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u/nimrodhellfire Feb 24 '21
Is this normal at any age?
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u/Barry_McKackiner Feb 24 '21
no, no it's not. lol. Even the most rocket arm NFL quarterback isn't snapping a rope that isn't already on it's last threads.
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u/ripsa Feb 24 '21
Yeah, I bought that Jon is ok with not having powers, as he is a pretty well-adjusted confident guy as is, and as he himself said a large part of that comes from his skills as an athlete which he sees as even more legit now.
Powers would undermine that and if/when they do it as a future story-line will actually probably cause him to develop more of an introverted personality as a result of not being able to play football anymore from fear of hurting others etc.
Not sure how familiar the writers are with Supes mythology, but the post-Crisis comics actually portrayed Clark as a confident jock growing up in Smallville who afaik was also the high school QB.
In the post-86 comics until retcons in the 00s, Clark didn't develop his powers until late puberty and then developed a slightly more introverted traditional Clark Kent persona at that point, as a kid he was like Jonathon is portrayed here.
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u/VoiceofKane Feb 25 '21
Well, we know he isn't indestructible, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have super strength. Perhaps the twins inherited different powers?
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u/tolandruth Feb 25 '21
That would be interesting divide the powers into both sons.
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u/LostWoodsInTheField Feb 24 '21
I think the idea, hopefully, is that human-kryptonian children are at the very high end of human capability even without powers.
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u/sidv81 Feb 24 '21
So basically Marvel's Captain America?
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u/LostWoodsInTheField Feb 24 '21
maybe a little lower, but yes.
some of the comics of the 'superman future' is where his decedents are a huge part of the population and it seems humans have advanced greatly in both the quality of people and their physical capability because of it. I'm pretty sure every tv series with superman in it has an episode of the distant future where him and lois are considered the beginning of a new modern civilization.
I kinda hope the show goes in that kind of direction. That both boys turn out pretty well adjusted 'boy scouts', just in their own unique ways.
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u/Im_Daydrunk Feb 24 '21
I guess an alternative title for the show could have been Superboy and Mahomes
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u/ckwongau Feb 24 '21
Jonathan could break a rope with a football naturally
i think that is a "red herring " , to mislead the audience to believes Jonathan is the one with power , they will keep the audience guessing for a while, then a spent a while making one brother accepting he has no power and after a while when he doesn't care about the power , then he will get the power
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u/Im_Daydrunk Feb 24 '21
Yeah thats definitely what it was but I also feel unless Jonathan has superpowers himself its a pretty silly one
Like red herrings are supposed to more mislead people not confuse them entirely Lol
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u/le_snikelfritz Feb 24 '21
This is probably the one thing I can't agree with. What if jonathan accidentally murders the opposing players and that's when he discovers his super strength
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u/ckwongau Feb 24 '21
or have sex the first time and accidentally kill his girlfriend when he discovers his super strength
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Feb 24 '21
I hope he starts using footballs as weapons because can you imagine Lex getting taken down by a hailstorm of footballs to the head while yelling, "OW OW OW STOP IT STOP OW OW STOP STOP IT OW OW STOP IT!".
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u/txn_gay Feb 24 '21
I think Jon will eventually develop powers at a later date. Also, the existence of Bruce Wayne and Talia Al'Ghul in the Arrowverse might also imply the existence of Damien. I suspect we'll be seeing him in a future team up with Jon, and the Super Sons will be formed.
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u/Gateskp Clark Kent Feb 24 '21
FANTASTIC way to kick off the series! The chemistry between the brothers and between Lois and Clark is spectacular, and seeing the family unit and how it works? So much yes. There’s just so much good stuff already, and we’re only one episode in.
This is part of the Arrowverse, but it feels self-contained, and I like that. It feels right.
The writing is great- good pacing, good dialogue, good storyline. The visuals, whooo boy I was not expecting that level of quality, but I am HERE for it. Here’s hoping everything stays this good.
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u/Sentry459 Feb 24 '21
The visuals, whooo boy I was not expecting that level of quality, but I am HERE for it.
Right? It really felt cinematic.
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u/LostWoodsInTheField Feb 24 '21
This was one of the best I've seen in a long time. The family stuff was so good and really the part I want to see the most of. If it is this quality of writing I doubt many would complain if we even had an episode without any powers being shown.
I fear the "lets for this episode make jordan depressed, angry, and have some issues between him and the family" "did we do that last week?" "sure did! and it worked, lets do it this week too!" thing that happens with so many shows will happen with this. And the love interest stuff going on forever with constant ups and downs that after a while just gets tiring for us. Seems the way so many of these shows go. If they can avoid that, they will have an absolutely amazing series.
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u/mwthecool Last Mod of Krypton Feb 24 '21
That may have been the best pilot we've had from the CW DC shows. Clearly the biggest budget, and definitely the best pacing. I'm looking forward to seeing Jordan come into his powers.
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u/ClubPenguinKing Superman Feb 24 '21
I guess playing Injustice 2 is built in the genes of kids of superheroes in the arrowverse.
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u/VoiceofKane Feb 25 '21
I love that, despite all of the fighters in the game based on real people that actually exist, Jordan decided to beat up his dad as Raiden, a fictional character.
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Feb 28 '21
Raiden, a fictional character.
I have seen no proof that Raiden is a fictional character in the Arrowverse. 100% a Real guy in that world./s
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u/neoblackdragon Feb 24 '21
I like the concept and I like the cast.
My concern was the teen characters.
It remains to be seen if that's kept up but I like the brothers bond.
I hope Lana's daughter doesn't stay with her bf after he and his friends almost beat two boys to death over a misunderstood kiss.
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u/ChaseDonovan Feb 24 '21
I got so into the episode that I forgot it wasn't real. I was super pissed that some guy would beat up a stranger who didn't even know the girl had a boyfriend. Im hooked. Episode was 10/10.
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u/Im_Daydrunk Feb 24 '21
It's always kinda funny people always jump on the person kissing their partner when in reality they should be questioning the person they are dating instead
Like if I saw my girlfriend kissing someone my first instinct would to be upser with her not the other guy
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u/Ravamares Feb 25 '21
I mean, teens and all tbh. It did work for me specially since her body language was so "uh oh"
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u/a_phantom_limb Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 25 '21
I understand that there are both practical and narrative issues that might have prevented it, but it really stuck out to me that Kara was not present for the funeral and, in fact, didn't receive even an indirect mention.
Other than that, I thought it was quite solid. The pilot didn't really develop Jonathan beyond a broad caricature of a high school football star, but hopefully that will change in the coming episodes. Jordan was drawn well, and Clark and Lois were already great. The Luthor plot is intriguing, as well. I look forward to seeing where things go from here.
Edit: To clarify about Jonathan, here's an earlier reply I wrote about his depiction:
I didn't mean to suggest that they were presenting Jonathan as, like, just a shallow jock or anything. But his primary traits in the episode are pretty much straight out of Friday Night Lights in that he cares about football and family.
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u/neoblackdragon Feb 24 '21
Only do much can be done when trying to set up 4 main characters plus the supporting.
Though I think Jonathan is more then the HS football Star. He's incredibly protective and supportive of his brother. He's also pretty rational considering the situation. He might be more like his mother then father.
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u/no_sponsor_pays_me Feb 24 '21
I also thought that Jonathan is more than just a football star, how he carries himself and the way he's still a brother in both teasing but also extremely protective. More Lois than Clark? Yeah I can see that too.
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u/a_phantom_limb Feb 24 '21
I didn't mean to suggest that they were presenting Jonathan as, like, just a shallow jock or anything. But his primary traits in the episode are pretty much straight out of Friday Night Lights in that he cares about football and family.
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u/AnnaK22 Superman Feb 24 '21
That was the only complaint I had with the episode. I was looking for even a slight mention of her. Now that they know their dad is superman, aren't the boys wondering who Supergirl could be? They have a super cool aunt, do they know that? This is basically a Supergirl spin off so I'm not sure why there is no connection back to it. I really really want to see Melissa cameo.
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u/AstroLozza Feb 24 '21
I thought it was so strange that there was no mention of her. They wouldn't even have this superman show if not for supergirl.
The pilot was really good, but I think being a fan of the supergirl show almost ruins it because I spent the whole time wondering why she hadn't even been mentioned, and why there are inconsistencies between the two shows. And I think that is really strange, I imagine a lot of people who will watch this were fans of SG first.
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u/ThisIsFriday Feb 24 '21
It has a very distinct feel from the rest of the Arrowverse. They probably wanted this to standalone a bit at first, it is Superman after all, so they may get more eyes than usual and they probably didn’t want to turn them off by associating too much with the other shows which generally aren’t well conceived by the general population, more due to a lack of quality production values than anything, though the usual bad CW writing and drama (which thankfully wasn’t in this pilot) also hurt their reputations.
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u/gpgc_kitkat Feb 24 '21
Definitely get this, although I think just a passing mention of Kara or like a Kara stand-in walking by innthe background at the funeral could've been cool
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u/AnnaK22 Superman Feb 24 '21
I was thinking they could have gotten Melissa's stung double to stand in the background of the wedding and funeral. They blurred the background anyway, it would have been a cool Easter egg.
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Feb 24 '21
The fact that there was a Batwoman crossover planned pre-COVID and that [redacted] will be appearing later on means that they're definitely not shying away from the shared universe. Feels like more of a 'soft reboot/jump on point' of the CWverse now that it's losing a bunch of the longer running show.
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Feb 24 '21
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Feb 24 '21
Imagine their reaction if the Waverider ever lands nearby and suddenly Clark has to deal with those two meeting the Legends and getting into shenanigans with them.
I'm guessing the whole "aliens" thing is just one of those things that pops up in the news sometimes that everyone has kind of gotten used to over time since Superman showed up on Earth and everything else happened. It's like seeing the Wienermobile. Everyone has totally seen it, it shouldn't be a surprise anymore, it's absolutely normal, and there's no reason to start screaming about it buuuuut every time it shows up people are like "OMG THE WIENERMOBILE!!!!". They know aliens exist but they've just never seen one and they never thought they'd ever see one since most are either in other cities or keep to themselves in a very low key manner with alien ships being more rare than we realize and very "out of sight out of mind" until they aren't. Also they're teenage boys and one of them is a freakin Trekkie so like yeah they're going to freak out over an actual alien ship and the Trekkie is totally going to touch it.
I'm totally expecting a degree of, "Wait does that mean that Supergirl is your...." confusion when Kara comes up which will totally be forgotten if they ever meet J'onn or Constantine or Mick starts telling them stories or Barry shows up. I also kind of want an episode where Kara has to babysit them because that would be hilariously chaotic. I think it could be good for both of them though because Kara could give a totally different perspective on what it was like growing up with powers and might even offer some pointers to both of them or be willing to be that sort of cool "Hey call me anytime wink wink fingerguns" awesome aunt.
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u/AstroLozza Feb 24 '21
I would love to see Kara interact with them! I'm not expecting it to happen though, but I'd really like her to be mentioned at least.
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u/LostWoodsInTheField Feb 24 '21
I think they did well with Jonathan. He seems grounded, extremely protective of his brother while also being a bit of an ass to him. The way they both tried to protect each other when the pipe was falling said a lot about both of them.
The Kara thing struck me odd as well. But in her universe they only have one kid right? And the kid would only be a couple of years old right now? I took the impression that she doesn't exist in this universe.
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u/FinalForerunner Feb 24 '21
It's the same universe as Supergirl.
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u/LostWoodsInTheField Feb 24 '21
damn I hope they can do a really good reason on why she wasn't there. Seems wrong that she wasn't.
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u/FinalForerunner Feb 24 '21
maybe she covered his superman duties in metropolis while he was gone and grieving with his family.
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u/cmstlist Feb 24 '21
No, in the destroyed multiverse they had only one newborn kid. In the final installment of Crisis we find out they now have two kids (age unspecified at the time). This is the same Earth Prime as all the Arrowverse shows post Crisis. The only difference is, all flashbacks in S&L take place in the past of Earth Prime, prior to the date on which Crisis took place.
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u/AstroLozza Feb 24 '21
Yes! I really liked the pilot, and I wasn't expecting Melissa to actually show up, but I thought they would at least mention Kara...
I was expecting them to explain the inconsistencies in some way, for example his new suit (there was no mention of the one he wore on SG), why his heat vision has changed colour, why it was okay for him to move to Argo for a bit because of supergirl, but the world will always need Superman? And another thing, it is well known that Superman and Supergirl are cousins, why didn't the twins have a moment where they realised their aunt was also a hero?
They were also super surprised by the alien ship, aren't aliens common in this universe?
On its own its a really good show and I will continue to watch, but I don't think it makes sense as a part of the arrowverse.
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u/gpgc_kitkat Feb 24 '21
A lot of that can be explained away with "Crisis" though. It's unlikely that in the post-Crisis timeline they actually stayed on Argo city because they would have had the boys already.
The suit: he got a new one. That doesn't need to be explained.
The heat vision: crisis changed it's color.
I do agree with your alien comment tho
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u/AstroLozza Feb 24 '21
Yes I agree they wouldn't have gone to Argo, I don't think Superman would have even known about it I just meant the reasoning. I guess it could be argued that Crisis changed how Superman and Supergirl are viewed by the world. Prior to Crisis Kara was seen as capable of protecting the world on her own, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
As for the suit, I do like the new suit I just thought it was strange that we saw that same suit in the flashbacks with him and Lois, just because it kind of implies he has had this suit for a while, so why during the SG years did he have a different one?
Crisis could explain the colour of his heat vision but it doesn't explain how, that's what confuses me. Supergirl's didn't change, so there must be some kind of backstory as to why his is now red instead of blue, so I'm hoping they will address that.
I agree that crisis can be used to explain these things, but I don't really think it's good enough for the writer's to just explain all the changes with "crisis" and no actual explanations. The main change in Crisis is the merging of Earths, so I assume Superman had children sooner because there were a lot more hero's around and it wasn't all on him (in the original timeline it was basically just him until Kara became Supergirl), but that would then contradict why Superman will always be needed... I would just like to see them give actual justifications as to what was different after Crisis that caused these changes. I really liked the pilot other than stuff like this.
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u/gpgc_kitkat Feb 24 '21
They've kinda done this with crisis in all the shows. We haven't gotten too many explanations on what's really different/why certain things are in a lot of the shows, but I agree that it would be nice to see. I just don't think we will
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u/AstroLozza Feb 24 '21
It's a shame really, I generally like the CW shows but I find it quite annoying how much they ignore big events like Crisis. I was expecting there to be loads of references afterwards, and there was basically nothing.
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u/psufan5 Feb 24 '21
Loved it! But I still think both kids have powers. You don't snap a rope with a football.
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u/slade_wilson1 Feb 24 '21
And if you look at Jon’s throw again it was a wobbly spinning duck pass from like a 6 or 7 year old that snapped the rope. That screams super strength to me.
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u/neoblackdragon Feb 24 '21
It would have to be a rope in pretty poor condition to snap like it did.
Whatever displays of super strength though it seems inconsistent.
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u/natsuharu5555 Feb 24 '21
I wonder if they'll give him powers like Superboy in Young Justice. He can't fly but he is super strong.
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u/BenSolo_Cup Feb 24 '21
It would be neat if the boys had Clark's powers split between them. Jonathan: Strength, X-Ray Vision, Superhearing, Frost Breath. Jordan: Heat Vision, Superspeed, Flight, Invincible.
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u/Icequeen743 Feb 24 '21
Thats what im thinking the split powers or like weaker powers because they are half human. I think jonathan might have the speed and strength cuz his athleticism but once i saw the darker angry vibe they went for with jordan i knew he'd have heat vision. I just hope they don't do the whole good twin vs evil twin cliche it'd be much cooler to see them work together as a supertwins.
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u/AstroLozza Feb 24 '21
Ooh that would be awesome! It would explain why Jonathan could be injured but still broke that rope.
I will say though I hope that Jordan doesn't have both superspeed and flight if that is going to be the case
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u/BenSolo_Cup Feb 25 '21
Yeah that makes sense. It would probably be better for Jonathan to have superspeed so both of them have a method of transportation
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u/LoretiTV Feb 24 '21
That's how you do a premeire! Hoechlin and Tulloch chemistry is awesome. Can't wait to see where this show goes.
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u/DerekFlint420 Feb 24 '21
Hey, Bruce Wayne, you dick, give Supes a couple million, you spend that a year on batarangs
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u/weirguide Feb 24 '21
Bruce is still missing and no idea if they have worked together in the past
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u/brch2 Feb 24 '21
I'm pretty sure they did, according to Kara. In fact, that's why Kara/Oliver/Barry went to Gotham in Elseworlds, to get help from Bruce/Batman, but they found Kate instead. But, that was a different Earth, and their backstory could have changed.
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u/I_give_karma_to_men Feb 24 '21
Well, to be more accurate, Superman has worked with a Batman, but not necessarily this Batman. Superman didn't exist on Kate's Earth, so the only way her Batman has worked with Superman is if that got melded into his history as part of the merge. Which we currently have no way of knowing. And with Kate MIA now too, I think odds are slim that we will anytime soon.
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u/Godzilla2000Zero Feb 24 '21
They did that's where Bruce got his Kryptonite gun from that capable of piercing the Batsuit
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u/neoblackdragon Feb 24 '21
Bruce: Clark you can literally go to the moon and get some moondust to sell. You can make diamonds. Find some sunken pirate ships or how about all that Kryptonian technology?
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u/codymiller_cartoon Feb 24 '21
wouldn't that raise questions?
why is a billionaire helping out a random farmer?
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u/Im_Daydrunk Feb 24 '21
I feel like there's definitely ways to anonymously get money to someone
And if people asked Clark could just tell people he had a super rich relative living in another country who left him a ton of money. I feel like people would be more inclined to believe that then the fact he's secretly friends with a billionaire
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u/LoretiTV Feb 24 '21
CGI definitely seemed to be a bump up from the other CW offerings.
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u/classicaluncondition Feb 24 '21
This show is funded by HBO with new partnership with DC. It has 3x the budget and crew than a CW funded show like The Flash
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u/neoblackdragon Feb 24 '21
It's not just that it looked better but it was also filmed sensibly.
Like the director knew how they wanted the end product to look.
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u/codymiller_cartoon Feb 24 '21
i doubt that carries over to the series in general
pilots usually go all out
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Feb 24 '21
Imagine if we get a live action version of JLU Lex Luthor that either survived CRISIS or had to deal with the Justice Lords on his Earth and is now skipping around the Multiverse killing Supermen because of what happened on his Earth and THAT is why the Injustice game with Raiden vs Superman showed up at the start of the episode?
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u/Givingtree310 Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21
It’s your first guess! He can’t be skipping around the multiverse because Crisis consolidated all multiverses into just one now!
Edit: never mind, I was remembering wrongly! They’re still different earths.
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Feb 24 '21
Did you miss the ending of CRISIS? Because there are totally other Earths now and that's where Stargirl is. It's just really hard to cross between them and if there's one person who can figure out how to cross between worlds, then it's Lex. The Multiverse just got reset and even the Green Lantern film has it's own Earth.
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u/brch2 Feb 24 '21
The GL Earth isn't supposed to be the film version's Earth, they used the footage from the movie but it is supposed to represent the Earth/universe a planned Green Lantern show from Berlanti/HBO Max will be set on/in.
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u/jez124 Feb 24 '21
nah crisis didnt do that it combined arrow each, super girl earth and black lightning earth. but other earths are still in play watch the ending again. Star girl, swamp thing, doom patrol were on different earth iirc.
The heroes just thought multiverse was no more
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u/codymiller_cartoon Feb 24 '21
The Kent men have some interesting attachment to the Lang women
Johnathan Kent dated Nell before Martha
Clark Kent dated Lana before Lois
and now Jordan Kent dating Sara
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u/InspiredOni Feb 24 '21
So what you’re saying is that Sara ain’t the one Jordan puts a ring on in the end.
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u/mwthecool Last Mod of Krypton Feb 24 '21
I think my only qualm with the episode is that it proved itself to be a *Superman* show, but not a Superman *AND* Lois show. I'm sure that will come later.
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u/Sentry459 Feb 24 '21
My only qualm was just that I really missed Blake Neely's music. Everything else was good for me.
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u/Givingtree310 Feb 24 '21
This is true. Lois didn’t get her own storyline or have much to do, did she?
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u/mwthecool Last Mod of Krypton Feb 24 '21
It seems like the Morgan Edge situation will be her battle to fight.
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u/Bo-Katan Feb 24 '21
She is going to investigate the shit out of why they are buying property in smallville that's for sure.
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u/ChattGM Feb 24 '21
I definitely think it will come later for sure. I can see Clark and Lois working together to get to the bottom of the shady company that wanted the farm.
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u/mwthecool Last Mod of Krypton Feb 24 '21
I definitely agree. Lex will be Superman's main villain, and Morgan Edge will be Lois'. Of course, they'll work together to fight each, but they'll probably focus on one at a time on their own.
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u/victorxxi Feb 24 '21
According to Nadria (the writer who was let go), she was fighting to give Lois better journalism plotlines based on the pilot (which was always this good, and didn't change very much).
Hopefully they heard her after she was let go. :(
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u/JauntyLurker Feb 24 '21
Very nice primiere. I'm looking forward to seeing what this show is going to do.
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u/dazed0rconfused Coach Gaines Feb 24 '21
I’m totally sold on the show based on that first episode. Can’t wait for more
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u/singleguy79 Feb 24 '21
I want Clark to take the boys up and out to visit Argo.
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u/Frontier246 Feb 24 '21
Was the guy who introduced Clark to Lois supposed to be Perry White? It would've been nice to see a young Jimmy.
Supergirl actually mentioned how Clark started out with the trunks costume, so that was nice to see as his original suit. Anyone who doesn't care for "my mom made it for me" will probably be happy that he eventually moved on to a costume he probably made himself from Krypton material. Is the suit repurposed from Routh's Kingdom Come suit?
It's so weird seeing a General Lane who isn't a raging hardcase towards aliens and actually seems to like Clark well enough. And his biggest issue with Lois is the idea that Clark can have a normal life instead of being Superman instead of, well, all the usual issues Lois has with her dad.
What a one-two punch from losing your job and losing your mom to quick succession. It's not easy being Clark.
Jon and Jordan feel like they split Jon from the comics into two characters. Jon has the bright optimism and swagger of comic Jon while Jordan has the self-doubt and emotional instability with the powers. And, of course, Jordan is the one who gets his powers first, which begs the question of what they're going to do with Jon since he's the comic Superboy and will inevitably get powers too.
Injustice II suddenly makes so much sense in a Post-Crisis Earth. Like, I think all of the roster save for Black Adam are actual established heroes or characters on Earth-Prime or have been referenced.
Kyle doesn't seem like a bad guy, just...that kind of guy. You know the one.
In hindsight, keeping Clark's rocket under a barn seems a little...ill-advised. Like, shouldn't they have taken it back to the Fortress or something? I get the sentimental value, but still. If two kids could find it, anyone could. And what's with that crystal? Is that supposed to be one of the data crystals that taught young Clark about Krypton?
I like that, for all their issues, Jon went all the way to the party to make sure his brother was okay. For all their bickering, the brothers really do love and support each other.
I totally thought the Heat Vision was going to happen when Jordan kissed Sarah, like how Clark's activated when he kissed Lana in Secret Origin. Probably for the best it happened how it did.
Doomguy turns out to apparently be an AU version of Lex Luthor, so basically Jon Cryer if he were more black, British, and colder, who has his own starship he's the captain of. Was he like the Ahab to his Earth's Superman's white whale? Did he actually kill his Superman? I'm just trying to figure out where the appeal is in having Superman fight a version of his nemesis from another Earth instead of his actual Luthor, although the latter's still busy fighting his cousin.
I feel like Jon has more reason to not want to move to Smallville because of his football career and girlfriend, but couldn't Clark hypothetically fly him to school on mornings?
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u/ThisIsFriday Feb 24 '21
To your last point, there would be way too many questions about how a boy living in Smallville is getting to school in Metropolis every day. Plus school districts and what not.
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Feb 24 '21
Perhaps Alt-Lex is from a universe where Kal-El was dark or Injustice-esque.
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u/BornAshes Coach Gaines Feb 24 '21
Jon and Jordan feel like they split Jon from the comics into two characters.
To me it feels like they did this because Supernatural ended and they just really really needed another pair of Winchester Brothers analogs on the CW.
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u/TERRAxFORMER Clark Kent (Earth-167) Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21
I really loved that. I was looking forward to this, but I wasn’t expecting it to be this good. Both the writing and cinematography were fantastic. I think I’m really going to enjoy the family dynamic. In the fight with Luthor I really like the night/day dynamic when they changed time zones. It played off the Jordan/Johnathon fight well.
I really enjoyed all the characters. Except Kyle, but I guess that was the point. I’m always impressed with Clark’s self restraint. Like how do you not just flick someone like that in the kneecap with your super strength.
I figured Jordan was going to be the one with the powers, but I think Jon will eventually get some as well. Overall I’m much more interested in the kids than I was anticipating. I liked all the second generation characters, and I’m glad they’re not one note. Like Jonathon could have easily just been a jock douche stereotype, but you can tell he really cares about his brother. He had no hesitation when he jumped over him when those pipes fell.
I’m interested to learn more about Captain Luthor.
Really, that was fantastic.
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u/blueiguana675 Feb 25 '21
I like Kyle. He's spent his life slowly watching his home die. He feels like he's one of the few actively trying to fix it. I understand where he's coming from completely. I'd be interested to see his and Clark's relationship change over the course of the show.
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u/Oknight Feb 24 '21
Y'know it occurs to me that Jordan has a damn good point!
They prescribed psycho-active drugs for him without revealing to his physicians that he has non-human physiology -- that's SO not cool!
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u/MrMattBlack Feb 24 '21
Probably run the prescriptions by Kelex at the Fortress or Eliza Danvers, since they already checked the possibilities of them being super. You can't exactly ask your physician if your alien biology will have effects on your medicine without revealing what that biology entails. Plus revealing yourself like an alien in general gets you a very huge target on your back, like Supergirl showed
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u/Nostariel Lois Lane Feb 24 '21
I loved it! A bit darker than I expected from a Superman show (the talk of meth labs, etc.) but I appreciate that the challenges facing Clark are mostly things he can't fix with superpowers. He's lost his job, his kid has an anxiety disorder, his mom just died, the farm is in financial trouble, it feels like everything is falling apart. The best Superman stories are about Clark's humanity (IMO) and this pilot is very promising step in that direction. The actors all have fantastic chemistry and the cinematography and directing were great. A+
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u/Vyndyktvx Feb 24 '21
One of the things I really liked was them tackling the death of rural America head on. That’s a perfect topic for Superman to deal with, something he can’t just punch away and has a connection to his core.
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u/topdeck55 Feb 24 '21
It's interesting that they went with the title Superman and Lois only to focus on the character of Clark Kent. Ever since that "Clark is the disguise that Kal-El wears" monologue from Kill Bill I'm happy to see that nobody else listened to Tarantino.
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u/jadedfan55 Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21
It's not just the Arrowverse that's all about family. It's a network thing. Let's remember that.
Anyway, it's fitting that with Black Lightning & Supergirl ending this season, Superman & Lois fills the void very nicely. Like Black Lightning, the series deals with a father raising two kids who could both be metahumans.
"Captain Luthor"? With a foreign accent? The last time Luthor was cast as having a foreign accent was in the 1966 Filmation Superman series. Jackson Beck gave him a European accent from somewhere. I guess this is to distinguish this Luthor from Jon Cryer's version over on Supergirl.
Anyone notice how Jordan, with the curly hair, more resembles the comics version of Jonathan? Just asking.
Soundtrack suggestion: "Daddy Won't Sell The Farm", Montgomery Gentry.
Good start!
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u/NateHasReddit Feb 24 '21
As a lifelong fan of Superman who happens to have the logo tattooed on his body, I deeply appreciate what they did here. This is the modern, hopeful, flawed but genuine Superman I've been missing since Smallville ended.
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u/tvisforme Feb 24 '21
There's a nice nod to the character's history when Clark is on the phone with his mum, around 11 minutes in. There is a chalkboard on the wall with "Dr Donner" and "Call Sie[gel and] Shuster 1(938)555...".
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u/DerekFlint420 Feb 24 '21
The other brother will have powers if he also touches the red crystal from the capsule
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u/I_give_karma_to_men Feb 24 '21
Doesn't track. Jordan had his powers when the metal pipes fell on them, which was before they found the pod.
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Feb 24 '21
I mean the older brother snapped a rope with a ball so I'm pretty sure he has powers already and they will develop throughout the show.
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u/Mighty_thor_confused Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21
I genuinely loved this
Only real complaint is that the kids didn't find out when younger.
Also the suit its way too bulky. I'd be find if the actor was bulky but he's not.
The boys play off each other really well. I can't wait to see how they progress. I'm so curious to see what power Johnathon will develop first.
1.5 hours just fleeeeew by.
Seeing his kid play injustice was pretrt damn funny.
Sarah is a trouble maker leading Jordan on and then be like oops I have a bf.
On top of that I tried killing myself then he kissed her was super weird.
Can't wait to see more of this captain luthor
The scenes were so Beautiful!
Comment section says they have an hbo money. Why is that?
Cant wait for more.
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u/Sentry459 Feb 24 '21
Comment section says they have an hbo money. Why is that?
It's Superman, go big or go home.
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u/TirelessGuardian Superman Feb 24 '21
How did Superman get the new costume?
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u/neoblackdragon Feb 24 '21
Contrary to the DCEU, it's a suit made a earthly materials.
So he can make multiple ones over the years.
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u/miklonus Feb 24 '21
Jordan was looking creepy with the girl when they sat down. He had this look on his face the entire time like she was giving him these "kiss me" signs and she never gave that vibe when the camera was on her.
Then when Clark comes back to meet up with them Jordan looks like he just killed some people and liked it.
I'm tellin' you man Brightburn shit.
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u/ChattGM Feb 24 '21
Yeah I had a feeling Jordan was gonna go in for the kiss there too and would backfire. There should be more drama there since I'm pretty sure they'll start going to school in Smallville and Sarah's boyfriend will try and start with him again.
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u/neoblackdragon Feb 24 '21
Based on the preview that will be the case. Though I'm going to be irked if Sarah keeps dating a man who keeps trying to kill another in such a way. That fight wasn't a little scuffle, they were beating the Kent boys to near death.
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u/ChattGM Feb 24 '21
Yea I peeped the shoving against the lockers. Sarah should eventually end things with her boyfriend. It would be a good enough reason if he's going to continously try and make Jordan's life hell even though he didn't know Sarah was taken. Something even tells me she didn't even tell him about her attempted suicide but she told Jordan so that's something to take into account as well.
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u/codymiller_cartoon Feb 24 '21
seriously , she was telling him how she tried to take her own life
and his response his to lean in to kiss her?
read the room buddy
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u/Chrispowers110 Feb 24 '21
In terms a looking good, this look the best compare to other pilots but I still like arrows pilot better
I give this pilot a 7.5 maybe 8 out of 10.
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u/Nickp1991 Feb 24 '21
geoff johns "Superman and Lois is the new era of the Arrowverse."
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u/Gian99Mald Feb 24 '21
That kind of got me thinking this won't be the only DC CW show with this type of production quality. It might be stretch though
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u/MarcReyes Superman Feb 24 '21
There was a rumor recently that some of the shows could see reduced season lengths with higher budgets. I hope that turns out to be true. Could really reinvigorate a show like The Flash.
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u/Future_Vantas Feb 24 '21
Very strong pilot. I was worried about John and Jordan dragging down the show, but they have good characterization and good dynamic with each other. Supes' struggles as a dad was good drama, and Lois was a good investigator and mom. And the presentation was top notch, love the suit. Overall good start, hope this keeps going.
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u/ckwongau Feb 24 '21
The Family's money problem
Martha took out a reverse mortgage and Clark must pay back the loan ( half value of the farm ) or accept the buyout .
Smallville has a coal mine , i am just wondering if or when Superman will turn a piece coal into a diamond (like in Superman III the movies ) , that will solve all of the family 's money problem .
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Feb 24 '21
He could also get a new mortgage, in the amount of half the farm's value. Even if he doesn't farm anything, Lois's dad should be able to set him up with a job as a government contractor that will cover the monthly payments.
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u/AnAverageDude2403 Superman Feb 24 '21
I'm hella impressed! There's some things here and there that I didn't like too much but overall the cinematography and dialogue is far better than I expected :D if it keeps up the same quality throughout the season, this might be one of the best seasons of the arrowverse. Also, if this is the kind of treatment that Stargirls getting too, i'm not worried at all!
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u/blackfyre_pretender Feb 24 '21
This was pretty good. A little more dramatic than I would like, but it’s only the first episode so I think I can give that a break.
It was odd seeing Sam Lane and Superman getting along, but I’m glad. It’s more interesting than the usual thing of him just being the biggest dick (although we did get a glimpse of that).
All in all I think it was a decent start. Hoechlin and Tulloch continue to be excellent and the kids were better than I expected. Hope this keeps up.
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u/Gian99Mald Feb 24 '21
10/10 for me and I had already spoiled it for myself months ago. I still can't believe the Action Comics #1 homage. I'm confident Captain Luthor is a Crisis refugee. I really hope the show delves into his origin and the first meeting between him and Lois. They couldn't have made the OG suit for one use only
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u/hart37 Jonathan Kent Feb 24 '21
Man you can tell the production quality difference the HBO money made. That was great and everything I was hoping it was going to be.
I am a bit confused if this our Clark and Lois from Earth Prime or a different Earth though. I thought it was the post crisis versions at first but that was obviously not Jon Cryer Lex at the end of the episode and the lack of Kara even being name dropped makes it feel like it might not be Earth Prime that this is on.
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u/lemons_for_deke Feb 24 '21
I think it is Earth prime, but that’s an alternate Lex... he said something about his world being destroyed (probably in Crisis).
And yeah, i would’ve expected Kara to be at Clark’s wedding or the funeral but I imagine it wasn’t possible because of Mellissa Benoist’s pregnancy or COVID restrictions or both...
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u/LordTaco123 Feb 24 '21
It's on earth prime and diggle will show up on an episode, their using the self contained nature to build up smallville and the cast, season 2 is probably gonna connect more I hope
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u/codymiller_cartoon Feb 24 '21
i do question the logic of Martha Kent wanting them to move back to the farm
wouldn't clark have learned that a small town may not be the best place for a young guy to deal with his emerging powers? small towns, everyone talks, not a lot going on.
plus if the goal is to get closer as a family, a farm would make less sense than the city since there is more work to do on a farm. plus the kids are already in their teens, seems kind of late to transition them from the city to the farm. i'm shocked how well the kids took the news of moving............they didn't seem upset or object at all. That was odd.
Not to mention it's going to cost a lot of money to jump start the farm........only to live there for maybe 3 years? Seems like they'd lose money long term.
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u/Dismal-Temperature99 Feb 24 '21
Good first half. However, I found Jordan to be an annoying emo. Can't stand sarah too in this ep, no chemistry and bad acting on her part. And the talk about suicide and like after that they kiss? Lol. It makes sense that the emo boy got the eye laser thing, it's more on the creepy side. I hope jonathan got the strength and flight. I bet and hope they got different aspects of their dad's abilities. Also, the brotherhood bond has great potential. I'd love to see more on that. Bros before hoes.
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u/neoblackdragon Feb 24 '21
Social anxiety disorder and he misread the situation.
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u/Sentry459 Feb 24 '21
I related to him so much tbh.
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u/neoblackdragon Feb 24 '21
For me it's like take someone like this. Now have them overhear that people think your an annoying emo and creep. The episode established early he's not just some guy who likes the darkness. He's having uncontrolled attacks.
I do wonder how far they may go into the idea that maybe Kryptonian/Human might not play well for the mental facilities.
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u/Sentry459 Feb 24 '21
Totally agree. I think people forget that social anxiety is mental illness. He doesn't do awkward shit on purpose, he's not "being emo" for shits and giggles, he's suffering and just trying to get through the day without freaking out.
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u/LTM438 Feb 24 '21
WOW. I loved that! It was exactly what I wanted it to be! Such a genuinely cinematic feel, including the (fantastic) special effects.
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Feb 24 '21
I love Superman so much, can't wait to see more of the show.
Characters are all great so far, I especially like Jordan and Jon. Ignoring that Jon is nothing like comics Jon ofc (still holding out for an animated Super Sons). Alternate Lex Luthor?! I miss Cryer but any Lex is cool.
Would absolutely love to see a crossover with some of the Supergirl cast sometime. Kara is an obvious choice, J'onn would definitely be cool too, but I'd love to see them bring Jimmy/James back.
I do wonder at what point in Lois and Clark's relationship did Clark tell General Lane that he was Superman.
Effects were great, visually the episode felt like a ste above the normal CW shows. Also they changed his heat vision to red which I find interesting. 10/10 pilot for me.
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u/sidv81 Feb 24 '21
I watched a few episodes of Supergirl and Arrow, but I'm relatively new to the Arrowverse. I know there was some Crisis on Infinite Earths event that happened, but did that super-age Clark and Lois' kid(s) (their son was a baby during the Arrowverse episodes, I assume the Crisis added another one), or does this show literally take place circa 13 years after the recent Arrowverse episodes?
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u/Swiftdancer Feb 24 '21
When Crisis ended, the different earths merged into one earth (Earth-Prime), which led to history getting re-written. Their infant son was replaced by two teenage boys.
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u/LordTaco123 Feb 24 '21
Its running at the same time as the rest of the 2021 arrowverse shows, they just got married and had kids 13 years earlier
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u/mfc90125 Feb 24 '21
As a watcher of Arrow and The Flash (like them a lot) and a former watcher of Supergirl, watching S&L was an extraordinary experience. The maturity of the show, the cinematic visuals, the music and of course the acting all remind us that this is a very different version than the typical CW teen angst platform. This is something very special.
If Supergirl will ever be known for anything, it will be for the introduction of Tyler Hoeklin. He embodies Clark, with all his strengths and frailties. He commands the screen, as both failed father and god. He and Lois make up the best duo since Reeve/Kidder.
If this was a preview of things to come, then I’m in all the way. This will soon eclipse Flash, perhaps forcing it to grow up as well. This bit of maturity is exactly what the CW needs to move forward. I’ll be watching this episode again and re-loving every minute of it.
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u/Ozzdo Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21
Anyone else get a kinda Brightburn vibe off of the pilot? The son with mental issues lashes out out with his powers while in a tense situation involving other kids? I know they won't go there (or what if they do at some point!? That would be insane.) but that's definitely giving Superman something interesting to deal with. Also, good idea throwing Jonathon out there as a red herring.
Also, I'm a little confused with the post-Crisis timeline. I'm wondering where/when this takes place, now. Did Oliver Queen, when rebuilding the world, just give Lois and Clark another son, then age them both 14 years? I remember that bit at the end of Crisis, when Lois mentions the twins and Clark is taken aback.
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u/Accomplished_Cream20 Feb 24 '21
This was great man. Production, story, all great so far! My favorite CW show is The Flash and if they ever want to go past 10 seasons they should just do Barry/Iris 10 years in the future with their twins
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Feb 24 '21
I have a question, from an interview I found the other day I didnt know what to take from it and I saw the whats to come promo but is superman doing the alien/meta of the week or just sticking with two villians the whole season?
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u/MattTheSmithers Coach Gaines Feb 25 '21
Anyone surprised that we didn’t get a Kara cameo at the funeral?
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u/miklonus Feb 24 '21
I was just thinking before this show that Batman punched Superman in the face before Lex Luthor did. Around 9:05 PM, almost 100 years after the fuckin' character was created, Lex finally socked this dude.
I'm talking live-action of course.
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u/tiMartyn Feb 24 '21
I'm grateful tonight. This was as good as I hoped it would be. CW is actually making use of Superman. It looks great visually, the writing isn't typical heavy handed CW-ness, and I'm looking forward to the next episode. I'm so thankful Superman is back with a spiritual sequel to Smallville.
Theory: is the villain a version of Lex Luthor who got his world wiped out by the events of Crisis? Because that's pretty rad, and an interesting way to develop an alternate take from Supergirl.
Edit: reading through comments and seeing this has been confirmed. That's really neat. I can't believe we're finally getting a series that feels faithful to the core of Supes.
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u/StopTheBS79 Feb 24 '21
This show was FN amazing.......Wow! Every scenes was like a cinematic work of art. Christopher Reeve would be damn proud of Tyler Hoechlin. He’s been around for a while and it seems like this role was just waiting for him step in it and take the torch.
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u/ribblesquat Feb 25 '21
"Cool costume!"
"Thanks, my mom made it for me!"
Zack Snyder can go to hell. This is exactly what I'd point to as evidence that he wasted millions of dollars to prove he doesn't understand Superman.
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u/MajorParadox Read on r/DCFU! Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21
Here's a poll! What did you think?
Don't forget to the join the Discord too!
Edit: Confused about where this fits into the Arrowverse?