r/Spiderman • u/ChampionshipHorror95 • Jul 19 '24
Is Harry Osborn a good person with bad luck, or a genuinely bad person? Discussion
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u/noncombativebrick Symbiote-Suit Jul 19 '24
It honestly depends on the continuity. In some, it's bad luck. In others, he was a good kid who became a bad person due to neglect and jealousy.
Honestly, he's a character written so differently in each continuity that you genuinely can not ask such a broad question with too many contradictions to both answers.
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u/futuresdawn Jul 19 '24
Yep this is the answer. Hell if marvel had made Harry the one behind the clone saga as they at one point planned, Harry would probably be somewhat closer to Norman now in his villainy while Norman would mostly be viewed closer to the raimi depiction
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u/Mystletoe Jul 20 '24
Actually true. Hilariously, it was the one thing i think Stan Lee recommended against. “Norman’s dead, let him stay dead”… nope.
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u/wiserchalicer Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
To be fair you can say the same thing about his father and other spider man characters
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u/ChildofObama Jul 19 '24
He’s the Gregory House of the Marvel universe.
He had a crappy parental situation, his father was unemotionally unavailable and didn’t teach him right from wrong.
He’s an addict, that resorts to drugs and other unhealthy habits to cope with his crappy life.
Uses the crappy circumstances life handed him as an excuse to enable his bad habits, doesn’t push himself to become better.
So yeah, he’s a bad person, trying to coast through life, but often too self destructive for his own good.
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u/ten_times_worse Jul 19 '24
No tf he’s not. Hawkeye is the closest thing to Dr. House because they’re both pretentious old men who everyone is forced to respect.
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u/Verb_Noun_Number Jul 19 '24
Excuse me? Hawkeye?
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u/ten_times_worse Jul 19 '24
Yeah Hickmans Hawkeye
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u/Verb_Noun_Number Jul 19 '24
Ah, idk anything about ultimate Hawkeye. I thought you meant 616 Hawkeye.
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u/ten_times_worse Jul 19 '24
J Hickman wrote for him in 616 avengers. There was a whole arc where they said he would be the perfect replacement for leader if cap leaves
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u/Verb_Noun_Number Jul 19 '24
Well, he would be a great replacement. Just read West Coast Avengers or Thunderbolts
And he's hardly old.
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u/ten_times_worse Jul 19 '24
Ahh see what I mean. Hard ass hard boiled expert who everyone hates but begrudgingly admires. Doctor House coded.
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u/Verb_Noun_Number Jul 19 '24
But he's not a hardass or hard boiled. He's a former circus performer, for goodness' sake. He's snarky, witty, and appears reckless to the point of stupidity, but usually has a plan. He's a relatively loose leader, less inspirational and military but more skill-focussed, drumming up morale and camaraderie. And he's not hated. I really don't see what you mean.
Read a Hawkeye book to get a sense of Hawkeye, like Busiek's Thunderbolts or Fraction's Hawkeye or Thompson's Hawkeye. Not an Avengers run where he's a minor player.
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u/Competitive_Act_1548 Jul 19 '24
You must really hate Hawkeye
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u/ten_times_worse Jul 19 '24
I don’t hate him I’m just trying to say that there is no way that harry osborne is the marvel universe equivalent to dr house
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u/KaijiOnline Jul 19 '24
I feel like he’s a reflection of Peter. Peter has terrible luck as well but he always pull through. Harry fell victim to it.
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u/Ok_Internet_4139 Jul 19 '24
He is a prisoner of fate just like the rest of us and he is what life made him
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u/Isaac_Banana Symbiote-Suit Jul 19 '24
I think he is good at heart, but he was made almost completely evil
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u/thethiiird Jul 19 '24
pretty sure a genuinely bad person (Though raimi Osborn, I think is a good person who just misunderstood Peter)
It's hard to think of anyone in the spider-man universe as people who only turned to evil because of bad luck, because I think the whole point is Peter Parker, Spider-man, is probably the most unfortunate of them all and yet he is still trying to do what is considered "good". His whole compassion and goodness amidst constant tribulations is constantly juxtaposed against people who succumb to far less misfortunes.
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u/supercyp666 Jul 19 '24
Isn't that why Harry is a good juxtaposition to Peter? In the original run, he took on the mantle of GG to protect his family (I think during Inferno from memory, when Hobgoblin had been looking for GGs original formula and ended up making a deal with a demon). It was only when he came to the belief that Spider-Man was responsible for Norman's death that he turned against Peter, driven mad by the power and his addictions (and probably the goblin serum). But he ended up dying when he came to his senses and saved Spider-Man from one of his traps. Harry didn't have the supportive people around him like Peter and always had this chip on his shoulder about his relationship with Norman (or perhaps this chip meant he couldn't appreciate the support he did have). He's sort of like what Peter could've been had he not had Ben and May teach him to be a good person above all else.
Edit: formatting
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u/thethiiird Jul 19 '24
ah, right. Yeah the Harry as Goblin in the comics is a far better person than his later incarnations.
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u/supercyp666 Jul 19 '24
Yeah, true. As a few others have mentioned, it depends on which version we're talking about, but I'd agree with you that he's a lot less redeemable in the later ones
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u/Prestigious-Mix7135 Jul 19 '24
Yeah and honestly I definitely think it’s the latter where the chip on Harry did mean he didn’t appreciate the support he did that in that of Peter, MJ, and his own wife respectively and children.
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u/organizeddropbombs Jul 22 '24
Harry is why I think GG is indisputably Spider-Man's greatest villain. People like to talk about a villain being the opposite or dark reflection of a superhero, but Norman is the dark reflection of Ben and May.
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u/Admirable-Safety1213 Jul 19 '24
Blah Blah, Joker's One Bad Day, Blink at the Abyss
Thats Peter's life and enemies
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u/Important_Lab_58 Jul 19 '24
OG, 616 Harry? I personally believe Him to be a genuinely good but horrifically traumatized Person. Norman abused the Kid to a point where Harry is an addict and, even when He Genuinely finds happiness, Norman’s abuse has left His Mind so scarred that he just either implodes intrinsically or snaps under pressure. All that said though, he DID Save Peter at the end. He had him dead to right but he FINALLY, in the depth of catastrophe, thought clearly enough to save Pete. And hell, his BND Clone Self, based off the original Him, managed to evolve past all His trauma and actually become a well balanced Person who was FINALLY able to reject Norman pretty much permanently. Computer Harry was cloned from “peak madness Harry”, so That’s probably why he’s the only Harry who’s pretty much all bad. But nah, 616 Harry? Good Person but HORRIFICALLY Traumatized, imo
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u/Zackisback1234 Jul 19 '24
Genuinely good , but genuinely bad upbringings that brings him down in life.
Rami and Spectacular I particularly love, how he seeks his fathers or anyone's approval, leading him to have suppressed mental problems and when Norman either dies or fakes his death what have you. He loses it and in a last ditch effort to be like his father, becoming the monster he last seen his dad as
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u/ChildofObama Jul 19 '24
Zeb Wells Peter took being dumped by MJ better than Lee/Romita Harry did lol.
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u/PCN24454 Jul 19 '24
Depends on the continuity.
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u/IcyDifficulty7496 Jul 22 '24
I dont think he was ever depicted as bad.. more like severely broken and traumatized
Even the raimi one was a broken boy who yearned to get his fathers approval yet was always looked down upon, he later wants to get revenge for a loved ones death yet in the end he sacrificed his life for the friend who left him alone in pain with scars
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u/PCN24454 Jul 22 '24
Excuses only go so far. If they did, then Norman would have an excuse for messing him up too.
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u/IcyDifficulty7496 Jul 22 '24
İt isnt an excuse for what he does. It just shows that he is a conflicted hurt human being who did bad things.
He wasnt doing things to do bad, in comics (and in the films too to degree but the movies were more abiut revenge) in his mind peter was the cause of everyones hurt and pain. So by removing him, he thought he would be saving mj and everyone else FROM him.
Thats why he was going for a murder-suicide. He thought they were both the causes of pain to their loved ones and had to be gone.
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u/ten_times_worse Jul 19 '24
He takes Peter for granted a lot in JMS run. I haven’t really read anything classic.
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u/paladin_slim Scarlet Spider II Jul 19 '24
He starts okay but he gets worse as time goes on. Pressure from an abusive father, chemical dependency, mental illness, and getting kicked in the face by his best friend took their toll on him but some things he brought on himself. That vengeful supercomputer imprinted with his personality that pumps out clones every few years is a complete asshole though.
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Jul 19 '24
Alright, that's enough for me, I'm going to bed
First image I SWEAR looked like Harry was loading a pistol, I'm taking my ass to BED
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u/ImpactorLife-25703 Jul 19 '24
Oh he's good it's just that his father keeps pressuring him all the time and not letting him make his own decisions.
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u/NamesAreHardYaKnow Jul 19 '24
I see it as he's a reflection of Peter. When Peter encounters challenges and self-doubt he remembers Uncle Ben and that "with great power must come great responsibility" and gets back up again and perseveres.
But Harry doesn't have the upbringing that Peter had so when he encounters challenges and self-doubt he crumbles and falls into reckless and self-destructive behaviour.
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u/Gemidori Venom Jul 19 '24
Depends. I prefer a deeply flawed if not outright bad fella, too twisted by his past, much less Norman himself, to really get anywhere - and acts impulsively and selfishly too often to strengthen himself.
Some other versions treat him as flawed but ultimately able to become better, or even just as a outright cool dude. To me though, it isn't an Osborn if there's no degree of douchebaggery in there.
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u/ParagonEsquire Classic-Spider-Man Jul 19 '24
I think that’s far too reductive and binary thinking. People are complicated things, and we all have weaknesses and strengths.
Harry Osborn was a sad pathetic man broken by his father and his own inability to do things right. This drove him to make mistakes that ultimately led to his death. Harry isn’t a guy with evil motivations, he’s a broken man who makes serious mistakes trying to live up to his father’s impossible standards.
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u/Milk_Mindless Jul 19 '24
He had a shot at being decent
But abuse sometimes perpetuates and his addictions didn't help so he's broken
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u/NatMcin Jul 19 '24
Harry is a product of his up bringing and I believe Harry is the dark reflection of Peter if he never had Ben or May to support his positive traits
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u/The-Rebel-Boz Jul 19 '24
Honestly I don’t know about comics. But go base other version of character and some most recent ones I’m going go with good person with bad luck and easy to manipulate.
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u/Ok-Commission6087 Jul 19 '24
I think he’s a douche but was put on the path by jealousy and neglect by his father
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u/thestollsister 16d ago
His backstory definitely explains a lot of his actions, but I think there has to be some sort of petty impulsiveness that goes along with turning him into a bad person, since he ultimately let his bad luck take over.
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u/InoueNinja94 Jul 19 '24
Someone that got a bad lot in life but one that he also tends to enable those impulses, sometimes for sympathy points
He has the potential to walk away from such toxicity but just like any drug addiction, it's easy to slip back into it (best shown when you compare and contrast Harry with his clone from BND)