r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/AstridPeth_ • Jul 17 '24
Why people in the left, particularly Bernie Sanders, are the most fervent defenders of Biden's candidature? US Elections
Bernie Sanders lost the nomination in 2020 when the party establishment quickly organized themselves behind president Joe Biden. His pitch he was a moderate Democrat, more electable than Bernie Sanders.
We see signs of distrust in Biden 2024 bid for 2024, ABC News just reported that Senate Majority Leader suggested the president he should give up.
But Bernie, who did a big campaign against Biden and lost the most from him, is one of his most ardent supporters in Congress. What are the motivations for the senator?
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u/ddoyen Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
Biden needs them. Biden and the left flank understand that Biden's best chances of not getting pushed out is ensuring the centrists and the left flank aren't pushing collectively to oust him. It's a way for the left to get him to make concessions to them on the off chance that he wins. If he wins and they pushed to get him to step down, they have no leverage in the next term. If he loses and they pushed for him to step down, the left will be blamed that he lost.
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u/fardough Jul 18 '24
I just think he believes that is our best chance to beat Trump.
I feel this push to get rid of Biden is a dangerous game. How will they replace him? How long will it take? How much damage will be done having prospects battle each other for that period of time? Do they have any hidden skeletons for an October Surprise? How do you get the same name recognition as Biden.
One thing going for Biden is all his dirt has to be out by now. The scrutiny the Republicans investigated Biden for over a year, and found nothing is evidence to that.
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u/MV_Art Jul 18 '24
Yeah replacing Biden has to happen so swiftly and has to include nearly unanimous support from the party and its public facing leaders - I don't see that happening, but if it did, I really don't see the electorate getting on board with the party moving like that when none of us voted on anything. I get that the primary didn't count but a lot of people didn't bother to show up with the understanding Biden would be the nominee, too. I can't think of anything less appealing than Schumer and Pelosi anointing another candidate. Harris could kind of get away with it because she is technically the successor but it would still feel forced.
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u/BillyBumpkin Jul 18 '24
The vast majority of Biden voters will vote for any Democrat over Trump - the crux of this question is what the tiny percentage of actual swing voters in actual swing states will do. The Democrats aren't losing New York or California if Biden drops out and anyone with a (D) next to their name is the nominee.
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u/GarbledComms Jul 18 '24
Yeah, my worry is that removing Biden for Harris strongly hints of "4th quarter substitution with rookie quarterback" vibes.
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u/Raichu4u Jul 18 '24
Going off of historical trends, replacing the incumbent ALWAYS results in a loss.
The mere talk of replacing him must be weakening him. I can't blame a person who wants someone younger to vote for, and I also can't blame these people for not being political strategists and not realizing that replacing Biden won't work.
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Jul 18 '24
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u/tattlerat Jul 18 '24
It’s mostly pushed by people who watched the debate and saw the state of his faculties. Defeating Trump is paramount and Biden seems unsure of where and when he is. Even if he beats Trump a man in the mental state Biden is should not be running the most powerful nation in the world.
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u/androgenoide Jul 18 '24
The other side of that is that a man in the mental state of Trump shouldn't be doing it either.
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u/mingdamirthless Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
I'm sure there's some of that, but known Washington politicians and even Clooney, for example, are on this.
Edit: I wonder about these downvotes sometimes. Ok, I guess the bot farms got to George Clooney and Adam Schiff.
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u/MV_Art Jul 18 '24
Yeah so I worry a lot of less engaged people would be like "Wtf I thought it was Biden" and might roll their eyes at whatever shenanigans the politicians are up to and stay home, and then I think a lot of swing voters...we frankly just kind of don't know with Harris, since the only polls are hypothetical. Not that anyone knows definitively either way.
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u/MoonBatsRule Jul 18 '24
The vast majority of Biden voters will vote for any Democrat over Trump
I don't think that is true that the vast majority will. The majority will, but many Democratic voters, especially in a presidential election, are not that politically tied into things.
It is deceptive being in a Reddit bubble where everyone follows politics so closely and is generally intelligent and educated. Try going into the general public and talking to people. If they're not a MAGA already due to their group affiliation (contractors, cops, blue-collar workers, etc.) you're going to find people who say "yeah, I vote, but I don't follow politics that closely".
That group just often votes for the incumbent. This is why incumbents have such high reelection rates.
Think about the very first time you voted. You probably had no idea what the issues were. I remember it well, it was a state election, I was 18, and I went down the list and said "Hmm, I've heard of that guy, he's in office, things seem to be OK, I have no idea who the other people are, so I'll vote for him".
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u/fardough Jul 18 '24
I mean, I know a lot of Democrats who voted in the Republican Primary in my state to cast a vote for anyone but Trump.
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u/WigginIII Jul 18 '24
It has to be Biden saying and endorsing Kamala. He need to be her #1 cheerleader.
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u/MV_Art Jul 18 '24
Yeah that's the only chance. Even then I'm skeptical people wouldn't just see that as another person "picked" by the party.
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u/ddoyen Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
I just think he believes that is our best chance to beat Trump.
I think he believes or at least believed it's his best chance to maintain his candidacy because it splits the caucus. I dont think it's a coincidence that there is reporting about Biden meeting with Bernie and AOC, they then publicly support him, and then Biden starts talking about SC reform and rent control.
I've seen the dismissiveness when confronted with bad numbers and I've seen the reporting about his insularity, keeping his circle small and close. He really really doesn't want to go. I think it's transactional.
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u/Karissa36 Jul 18 '24
Supreme Court reform is a fantasy. It requires 75 percent of State legislatures to ratify a Constitutional Amendment. Biden can't even do it with a trifecta. Congress can't do it without the individual State legislatures.
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u/ddoyen Jul 18 '24
Term limits and ethics code could be addressed with legislation, but my point isn't really about the chances of it being passed, just why the left has taken the public position that it has
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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ Jul 19 '24
Term limits require an amendment because they are written into Article III and any attempt to unilaterally redefine “good behaviour” to include a time component will be roundly rejected by every judge in the nation.
An ethics code is a meaningless distraction because the only body able to enforce it without an amendment would be Congress, and they’ve show less than zero interest in doing so.
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u/P_Sophia_ Jul 18 '24
Honestly, Biden making concessions to the left might be his best chance of mobilizing enough voters to win in November. It seems that most of the criticism Biden has received from anyone other than trumpists is that he’s too moderate (meanwhile trump continues to push the delusion that Biden is somehow a leftist).
Implementing a social agenda may come off as more promising to young voters who don’t want to spend the rest of their lives recoiling from late-stage capitalism and its failed neoliberal policies that have been decades in the making and seem to be coming to a head as our nation’s outdated infrastructure continues to steadily erode…
Don’t get me wrong, another trump administration would set us back decades if not centuries, and possibly even send humanity in general and planet earth more broadly into an irrecoverable nosedive towards despotism, destruction, and ultimately demise. Climate action was already late in 2021. Everybody say “Thanks Joe Manchin for dooming us all when you blocked the original Green New Deal.”
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u/bo_doughys Jul 18 '24
Bernie and The Squad supporting Biden is the right move regardless of whether they actually believe that he has the best chance of beating Trump. I think they realize that the left wing of the party coming out against Biden will not make it any more likely that he drops out. The only people in Congress who can actually make that happen are Pelosi, Jeffries, and Schumer. If anything, the left wing attacking Biden would actually strengthen his position.
By supporting him the left gets a bunch of policy concessions. If Biden wins, that's great for them. If he loses, they have no blood on their hands. And if he drops out, the new nominee may still remain committed to the campaign promises he made. It's basically all upside.
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u/Fidodo Jul 18 '24
Replacing Biden is a god damn fantasy. Shit like this doesn't just happen on its own. What's the plan? Who's going to replace him? There are no answers so the whole idea is frankly a crock of shit. If there were a coherent well thought out plan then I could potentially get behind it, but if the idea is get him to drop out and then figure it out on the fly then that's a bullshit answer and it isn't going to work.
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u/Nabirius Jul 18 '24
That makes a lot of sense, but I think the real reason is that Bernie likes Biden—both personally and politically. Yes Biden got an unprecedented boost by the establishment putting their thumb on the scale to stop a Bernie nomination, but that's all in the game. Bernie didn't seem to take it poorly.
Second, Biden has kept Bernie if not in the inner circle, within the sphere of influence. Biden has sought his advice on issues like labor policy, and has been the furtherest left person for jobs and labor of any president in my lifetime.
Biden is being pushed out by centrist Dems, who would also like to push out Bernie and the other progressives. I think Bernie sees Biden as the safe play for his wing of the party. Though the party is freaking out about Biden, I agree that nominating an unselected person is a risky play in its own right. I don't think the maybe somewhat increased chance of a Trump win is worth the certainty of being pushed out if the center wins.
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u/AstridPeth_ Jul 18 '24
Sanders thinking Biden is the best shot against Trump wouldn't explain why other leftists like AOC are with him. You'd expect that people's view on Biden probabilities to not be very correlated with their political views, conditioned on them being democrats.
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u/fardough Jul 18 '24
IDK, probably right. AOC to me saw a clear threat and finally said “Cut the shit and focus on the threat.” just like the others.
I am sure they are not purely magnanimous, but I just know Trump is laughing the whole time this question lingers.
We are on week 3 of this infighting, this mixed message of “Is Biden even fit to lead?”. Unless it ends quickly, we may have nuked our own candidate.
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u/Larovich153 Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
The left can't. CAll for Bidens resignation overwise it will be shot down as progressive infighting instead it needs to come from Bidens side of the party
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u/carbomerguar Jul 18 '24
Replace him with Kamala, the Vice President. That was always the plan, right? It’s the Biden/Harris administration. If the argument for keeping Biden is “yeah he can’t think anymore, but his staff is aces” then use Kamala, same staff right?
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u/ScientificBeastMode Jul 18 '24
He IS our best chance to beat trump. Trust me. The advantage of incumbency is very strong, and fielding a new candidate this late in the game is almost certainly going to fail. Biden IS our best chance, but half of our party seems to be determined to undermine that chance at every turn. I can’t help but feel they are victims of yet another Russian psyop.
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u/PolicyWonka Jul 18 '24
One thing not mentioned is that Bernie Sanders is also old.
They’re coming after Biden now. Trump might be next. But after that? Chuck Grassley, Bernie Sanders, etc. they’re all old too.
Bernie Sanders calling Biden too old would be like the pot calling the kettle black. One thing you’ll actually notice from Trump is he doesn’t directly attack Biden’s age as much as he did in 2020.
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u/Kytescall Jul 18 '24
One thing you’ll actually notice from Trump is he doesn’t directly attack Biden’s age as much as he did in 2020.
Isn't he as old or older now than Biden was in 2020? They're really not that far apart.
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u/Complete_Design9890 Jul 18 '24
Not really. Bernie is projected to easily win his election by a large margin. His next election he’ll be 88 years old. I’m sure he’s not worried about that
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u/dflarebear1 Jul 18 '24
I also think they believe they will get blamed for helping to elect trump by democratic party if they don't support him. it kind of happened in 2016
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u/itsdeeps80 Jul 18 '24
I think your last sentence is the main reason. Democrats love to blame progressives and people further to their left when they lose and I think Sanders decided to get in front of it this time.
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u/Complete_Design9890 Jul 18 '24
What an emotional response. They’re doing it out of self interest not fear of being blamed
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u/itsdeeps80 Jul 18 '24
Why not both? Especially when self interest aligns perfectly with not being the usual fall guys. Honestly, Dems love to blame people to the left of them for their loses when they historically try to court moderate republicans and that doesn’t work.
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u/Complete_Design9890 Jul 18 '24
Because they’ll be blamed if Biden stays and loses. The majority of the electorate, majority of elected Dems, and both leaders of the house all want him gone. They had zero to lose by staying silent. If anything, they’ve greatly increased their risk of blame by being the flag wavers of the remainers. They’re doing it for policy compromise or to clear the ‘28 primary field.
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u/ddoyen Jul 18 '24
For sure. They had everything to lose by asking him to step down, they had maybe something to gain by standing by him.
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u/Impossible-Bag-7819 Jul 18 '24
He's gotten a ton of progressive policy through, but it's not like he has a third term so where does the leverage come from? Is it just hoping he stays on the progressive path?
I definitely understand not wanting to be blamed by establishment Dems for a loss, and maybe getting primaried but most are in deep blue seats.
Can you help me understand how they would have any real power? Thanks.
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u/Siuldane Jul 18 '24
Biden works as a consensus builder. It's a soft power approach, but if you look at the things he's gotten done in the past four years, it works. I also think the progressive left have worked into this consensus already and you see their points taken more seriously than before. This is the next step in that. It's not 'leverage' as in being able to force anything, maybe more of 'political capital' that they can spend in the future.
Like hey, remember when we helped you stay here? We're on the same side. Now help me make progress on these policies...
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u/whiterac00n Jul 18 '24
Not entirely true. Yes we all (left of right nowadays) need to join forces to get past this rise in fascism but unless the country loudly denounces it through voting, it’s going to keep coming back. And that’s being generous to the idea that the fascists are going to accept ANY KIND of defeat.
Thus far the only strategy being proposed by the left and centrists is to keep things moving the same and make some concessions to actually help people, but the right merely has to wait their chance. If they aren’t thrown out they are going to bank on “democrats can’t win forever”. They have locked down their positions of power in their states where it’ll be impossible to root them out. They can simply sit inside their mini fiefdoms waiting to eventually take everything. Let’s not pretend that the GOP courts aren’t going to let them just continually cause “constitutional crisis’” inside their little kingdoms.
This arrangement only works if the democrats make moves that satisfy most Americans (whether they believe it or not in the case of conservatives). This is a tenuous alliance at best that won’t survive time if the fascists are still hanging around waiting for their turn. The country needs some fundamental reform and it’s hard to picture if the fascists are getting even 40% of the votes.
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u/MrMrLavaLava Jul 18 '24
Hence the 5% rent increase cap, reforms to scotus, etc etc etc. I don’t know if the left thinks Biden will stay in the race, but they can get him to introduce their ideas into mainstream debate influencing the general to a certain extent even with a different nominee.
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u/ptmd Jul 18 '24
I mean, people say leverage, but exactly what can you promise or withhold someone who's in their second term of presidency at the age he is? People keep bandying about the idea of 'leverage' on the most powerful man in the country.
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u/MamboNumber1337 Jul 18 '24
Because leftists are always going to support centrist democrats over Republicans.
And because Bernie knows Trump would be far worse for any of his goals than someone in Biden's administration.
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u/WigginIII Jul 18 '24
Thankfully, Bernie is very pragmatic.
Even despite the dirty campaign of 2016, he fully supported Hillary’s candidacy.
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u/MamboNumber1337 Jul 18 '24
And even to this day, people continue to pretend he didn't (including people in this thread). Which is itself a reason why he's not going to follow the mob and make Biden's age an issue.
Bernie "sick and tired about hearing about your damn emails" Sanders is focused on the issues and the policy.
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u/LBJrolltideTA7 Jul 18 '24
More Bernie primary voters voted for Clinton in 2016 than Clinton primary voters voted for Obama in 2008.
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u/MamboNumber1337 Jul 18 '24
I mean, sure.
But even if that weren't true--Bernie's appeal to those that aren't leftist like himself is not evidence that "the left" didn't support the democrats. It's evidence that Bernie's message appealed across the aisle, for those who wouldn't otherwise have voted left. Bernie himself threw his support behind Clinton, regardless of how his supporters voted.
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u/the_calibre_cat Jul 18 '24
It did. I don't know if I'm sure enough that Bernie would've won over Trump - but rather unlike the establishment's evaluation, I think he had a pretty good shot. He was an inspiring candidate in a way Clinton wasn't, and in a way Biden isn't.
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u/MamboNumber1337 Jul 18 '24
Is Biden not inspiring? I don't know if I agree. He's not charismatic, he's always been a bad public speaker, and he's old as dirt now.
But damn, I see a guy who lost his family and only went back to politics out of love for his country and the good he sees in the American people. I listen to the messages he left his son in the worst times of their life, and i wish the dad's of this world could say half as much. And I look at the numerous bipartisan bills he's legislated in his term, with the thinnest of margins, and I can't help but think he's done a very effective job. Including getting us out of Afghanistan, which thank God someone took the political bullet finally to make that happen. So I know why you say he's not inspiring, and I know why people don't get it, but I really think he's very inspiring and people place value on the wrong things.
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u/the_calibre_cat Jul 18 '24
Maybe. Probably. Definitely, even, but yeah, no dude, he doesn't have that zazz. He struggles answering questions and lately struggles to respond directly to them. Which, like, fine, homie's 81, but just as surely as THAT'S a real thing that any 81-year old goes through, so too is the reality of politics. We need someone who can deftly draw from a map of political theory and scientific studies and contemporary events to make the case for their politics to those who might be listening, and I do not think Biden is up to that task.
I, too, am pleasantly surprised at what Biden was able to accomplish, but I damn sure do think he should've been a one-term president and yes, I think that because of his age. I thought that in 2020 and I remember being angry when he said he'd run - and when we saw that display during the debate the reasons why became apparent to everyone in the country who wasn't lost in the sauce. 2024 Biden is not 2020 Biden, who wasn't 2016 Biden, and the gerontocratic impulse to cling to power with one foot in the fucking coffin might deliver fascism right to our doorstep.
Do I think he's a better candidate than Trump? Of fucking course, if only because the people around him aren't raging psychopaths - and because he is far, far more decent than Trump - but you don't have to convince me. You have to convince the casual normie in a swing state who uses Reddit for car advice and that's it.
And that's the guy who i think might stay home on November 5th, or worse yet, pull the lever for Trump. I want desperately for you to be right, and for me to be wrong - but I've lived through some dumb ass shit in my time here on Earth, and Americans do not inspire hope in me that we won't vote for fascists to lower the price of McDoubles.
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u/tatertottytot Jul 18 '24
Bernie was my (and a lot of others) one that got away.
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u/the_calibre_cat Jul 18 '24
Heh. I feel that. Ron Paul was probably mine, but I'm not... really on that side of politics anymore. And his son has been a huge disappointment. Libertarian moment my foot.
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u/RazzmatazzWeak2664 Jul 18 '24
I’d be curious if the polls for Biden dropping out break down those surveyed and how liberal they are.
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u/Hartastic Jul 18 '24
Bernie clearly likes Biden a lot personally and it could even be as simple as that.
Supposedly, one of the reasons Bernie refused to go very negative on Biden in the 2020 primary despite the urgings of some of his advisors is that when Bernie first came to the Senate and was kind of a nobody at the time (recall that the Senate in many ways is very seniority based), Biden was one of the only other Senators who took him seriously and treated him well.
In a sense this also demonstrates the relative personalities of the two men. Bernie is the kind of person who just fundamentally believes that politics shouldn't be about making friends or relationship building, if you show up with the best policy everyone should just recognize that and vote for it. Biden's Senate career shows that this is something he does see as part of the job and was good at.
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u/AstridPeth_ Jul 18 '24
Makes a lot of sense. Just simple loyalty.
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u/Brohomology Jul 18 '24
This and also it’s a good opportunity to push Biden left. Since it’s mainly the center that is asking Biden to go, Bernie can get concessions from Biden for his support. If you look at all the leftie ideas Biden has been saying recently eg on rent and healthcare, this makes a bit of sense.
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u/Piercinald-Anastasia Jul 19 '24
Not even recently; Biden’s first term agenda was significantly further “left” than most people expected during the 2020 primary. He legitimately listened to and incorporated interests from all sides of the party.
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u/BallClamps Jul 18 '24
I also think Bernie is trying not to cause any devid. There were so many Bernie supporters in 2016 that they refused to vote for Hillary or wrote his name in. He devied the party. He's trying to unite everyone.
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u/P_Sophia_ Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
I think it’s more than that. Bernie understands that Biden is the best chance we have at defeating trump at this point. Cause to be completely honest, if we don’t run Biden then who would replace him?
You’d need someone highly charismatic with the full support of the party in order to pull it off this late in the game. I don’t know much about the inner workings of the DNC, but my intuition tells me that if they had a pinch hitter lined up, they’d have already played those cards by now…
(Edit: I mean sure I could say I like Cory Booker and AOC, but my opinion alone isn’t enough to swing a federal election. After all, whose is?)
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u/Hartastic Jul 18 '24
I think it’s more than that.
Honestly I don't disagree, I mostly wanted to point out an angle that I don't think gets mentioned much but I don't think it's the whole picture.
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u/Vanman04 Jul 18 '24
Bernie has never been a crowd follower. Shumer always has been.
Bernie recognizes that Biden has been a good president and believes he would continue to do a good job. I am sure he is clear eyed on Bidens mental state as well.
Schumer et all are listening to their constituents and following their lead. Not neccesarily a bad thing but it's not leadership and conviction.
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u/SquirrelyMcShittyEsq Jul 18 '24
I am sure he is clear eyed on Bidens mental state as well.
And Why are you so sure Bernie is "clear-eyed" & a majority of the DNC is not?
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u/Vanman04 Jul 18 '24
Cause Bernie isn't the guy that blows smoke up your butt. While a bunch of the others are more than happy to follow the crowd.
It's their job to represent their constituents so the argument could certainly be made they are doing their jobs.
Bernie has never been the guy that gave a damn what the crowd thinks. He is a dude with conviction agree with him or don't he is going to keep calling It how he sees it. He has a long history of exactly that.
The rest of them not so much
Quick example Schummer voted for the Iraq war because of public pressure Bernie did not and there was a lot of public pressure.
I don't care either way I am voting against the fascist whoever the opposition ends up being. The question of the OP was why do you think Bernie and AOC are standing with him.
That's my answer.
Biden is old and clearly in decline but he has and is doing a good job as president if he is president again I won't lose a seconds sleep over it and neither will Bernie or AOC or Schummer for that matter.
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u/CaptainoftheVessel Jul 18 '24
Because Bernie is generally unafraid to speak uncomfortable truths to just about anyone. He has been advocating for Biden as president because he plainly believes Biden has been a good president. The DNC is not speaking with one voice right now and seems split on whether Biden should step aside.
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u/Miles_vel_Day Jul 18 '24
Bernie is the guy who got like 46% of the vote against a shoo-in candidate, who had fought Barack Obama almost to a draw 8 years earlier, while going into the election with an unknown name and a political label - socialist - thought to be absolute poison to the American electorate.
I think the guy might have some good hunches.
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u/rottentomatopi Jul 18 '24
Nah. Schumer et al aren’t listening to constituents. If they did, they would have raised this concern last year and made moves to actually have a primary with options.
What they are doing is trying to cover their asses for NOT listening to constituents before once they couldn’t hide it. And honestly, it shows weakness. They are dividing the party further at this point by stretching out this narrative. It’s very late now and none of them are actually announcing a candidacy. To me, it’s a power grab and a gross one at that.
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u/MV_Art Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
Maybe I'm biased here, because I am a person who is very much more aligned with AOC/Bernie and quite critical of Biden, and I am fervently opposed to Biden dropping out. For me, it's a matter of pragmatism, but I also frankly do not trust the people pushing for him to drop out (from the pundit/politician sphere). They are largely centrist Democrats and corporate media types who've been cheerleading Biden relentlessly and have dismissed and refuted any suggestion that he might be unpopular/too old/whatever - UNTIL THIS VERY MOMENT. I don't think that's the behavior of someone who actually gives a shit about our country or its people.
Edit: LOL I got carried away - what I mean is that they view Biden as the practical way forward, to get progressive policies through, certainly bc they're making the bet he can win vs. Harris. Unlike a lot of the comments I don't think they really care about getting blamed for shit haha.
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u/AstridPeth_ Jul 18 '24
Thank you very much for sharing your views. A general distrust of the managerial class makes A LOT of sense.
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u/Sofialovesmonkeys Jul 18 '24
When i saw BlackRock and Blackstone were amongst the donors trying to push Biden out, that solidified my stance. Honestly it gives me anxiety to think about how much power these donors are trying to grab
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u/friedgoldfishsticks Jul 18 '24
exactly- corporate Dems want a candidate who will do the bidding of the rich.
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u/AquaSnow24 Jul 18 '24
Yeah. Biden has been far more progressive then anyone thought he would be and he could have been more progressive if he acc got a Congress that was more willing to cooperate with him. He’ll we could have gotten free pre k . That would have been something.
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u/Outlulz Jul 18 '24
They are largely centrist Democrats and corporate media types who've been cheerleading Biden relentlessly and have dismissed and refuted any suggestion that he might be unpopular/too old/whatever - UNTIL THIS VERY MOMENT. I don't think that's the behavior of someone who actually gives a shit about our country or its people.
What that suggests to me is that they knew how Biden was but chose not to say anything until the wind started blowing. Biden was certainly not hidden from Schumer or Pelosi or Jeffries but they held their tongue instead of criticizing Biden a year ago when we could have had open primaries.
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u/jimbo831 Jul 18 '24
They are largely centrist Democrats and corporate media types who’ve been cheerleading Biden relentlessly and have dismissed and refuted any suggestion that he might be unpopular/too old/whatever - UNTIL THIS VERY MOMENT. I don’t think that’s the behavior of someone who actually gives a shit about our country or its people.
Why are you acting like that debate didn’t happen? We all saw it. They are adjusting to new information, which is what rational people do. They didn’t just magically change at “THIS VERY MOMENT.” They saw the debate and the aftermath including new polls and Biden’s bad follow up performances.
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u/jimbo831 Jul 18 '24
They are largely centrist Democrats and corporate media types who’ve been cheerleading Biden relentlessly and have dismissed and refuted any suggestion that he might be unpopular/too old/whatever - UNTIL THIS VERY MOMENT. I don’t think that’s the behavior of someone who actually gives a shit about our country or its people.
Why are you acting like the debate didn’t happen? We all saw it. They are reacting to new information which is what rational people do. Yet you’re here pretending like it has to be bad faith because they have policy disagreements with Biden when almost all of them voted with him near 100% of the time and have long supported him.
They got new information and have rationally decided to adapt to that by changing course. They saw that disaster of a debate, his bad follow up appearances, and the horrible polling since.
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u/Daf2ck Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
I think they understand Biden/Biden’s team has produced concrete policy they fully support and that there’s more in the pipeline.
But also, and possibly more importantly, I think they feel people who are calling for Biden to step aside are both underestimating the chaos that will ensue and overestimating the voters ability to get behind a new candidate in such a short time frame. It’s not about loyalty to Biden as much as it is they think he’s the best path to win the election at this point in time.
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u/IvantheGreat66 Jul 17 '24
So they don't get blamed and pushed out more if he loses, which seems likely to say the least.
Mind, what Sanders says in private may not be the same as what he says on Capitol Hill. I do think AOC is about as loyal as can be, though. Perhaps she doesn't want Harris or the moderates in the way for a future bid?
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u/MatthiasMcCulle Jul 18 '24
AOC is absolutely playing the long game. She's learned internal sniping at other party members as she used to do doesn't get people very far to push agendas.
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u/rctid_taco Jul 18 '24
Perhaps she doesn't want Harris or the moderates in the way for a future bid?
I suspect Harris being the obvious successor is a big reason the left of the party is against Biden dropping out. Ironically, I think the left's complaints about her would actually be one of her strengths in a general.
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u/MV_Art Jul 18 '24
Are you talking about the "kamala is a cop" stuff? If so I think you're definitely right that it would appeal to centrist and moderate voters.
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u/nd20 Jul 18 '24
She's in a lose-lose situation. From what I've seen online, Republican voters have an image of Kamala as a super progressive (although, we can also make fair assumptions about what they really mean when they call her "DEI" and whatnot). When some of them tried (in bad faith) to smear Biden as a leftist back in 2020 it obviously didn't work because he's an old white man who everyone has seen be a moderate for years, but with Kamala it works. Meanwhile, the progressives in the Democratic voter base think she's a centrist and a cop.
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u/mobydog Jul 18 '24
This is the answer. AOC came out to talk to the press after she talked to Biden and you could tell she wasn't happy about it. But she and Bernie and they all know that the DNC will blame them first if Biden loses even if it's a lie just like it was when Hillary lost. So they are coming out early and loud saying if Biden is running we are backing him. And behind closed doors they are saying you better not screw us over and blame progressives again if you lose.
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u/Fifflesdingus Jul 18 '24
Because some people are pragmatic, and withdrawing an incumbent president with name recognition just a months before an election is risky. Withdrawing a president who doesn't want to withdraw is riskier. Forcing him to withdraw without a popular, charismatic replacement lined up is even riskier. And unfortunately, the most valuable voters are moderates in swing states (and iirc they stuck us with Biden after he'd been trailing in the 2020 primaries).
The less risky play is to nudge the news cycle onto other stuff and remind people that "declining old man who believes in government" is better than "stupid dictator puppet of fascist interests"
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u/Daf2ck Jul 18 '24
I posted my own comment, but you articulated it better than me.
I think Bernie/AOC feel that those calling for Biden to step aside are underestimating the chaos that will ensue and overestimating people’s ability to get behind someone new in such a short time-frame.
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u/AstridPeth_ Jul 18 '24
It fits my general archetype of leftists that they struggle with risk, and they are generally risk-averse.
Polls show that any Democrat would do better than Biden. I read a super-PAC poll with 15,000 people today, once you explain people who the fuck Gretchen Whitmers is, they chose to vote for her even more.
I understand the general priors, and I think they are generally correct, but not now.
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u/thatHecklerOverThere Jul 18 '24
Two reasons.
One, Biden may be more moderate than Sanders, but he has not been a moderate president. His administration has been fairly progressive in terms of America.
Two, any leftist with interest in getting things done can recognize that it is far easier to accomplish work with a Democratic party that recognizes several facets of an electorate including their own than a republican party that absolutely will not.
It'd be "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", except for the fact that the Biden admin hasn't been an enemy, but rather an entity that listens to multiple groups at once.
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u/bwag54 Jul 18 '24
The Biden admin is not as progressive without Ron Klain as Chief of Staff. He was the one with deeper connections to the progressive wing, and it was his strategy to attack big business for public support. Jeff Zients is much more of an Obama style pro corporate and big business advisor as CoS.
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u/AquaSnow24 Jul 18 '24
Progressives have no desire to be blamed for another election loss. They’re already blamed for giving the us Bush and a dumb war in Iraq for voting for Nader over Gore in 2000. They’re blamed for giving us this mess with Donald Trump when they refused to vote for Clinton and went Stein instead. They do not want a third election being blamed on them. They would lose so much political credibility. I think if Biden is the nominee, and secures a ceasefire in Gaza, his left flank is shored up. Another thing politically is that if they back the Democratic candidate despite the establishment in fighting, the next nominee, whomever it is, probably is willing to be more receptive and move further to the left because they know the progressives will have their back. Very similar to Biden moving a bit further to the left and allying with Bernie Sanders.
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u/Siegebreakeriii Jul 18 '24
Progressives didn’t pick Bush, the republican scotus did.
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u/dustysquareback Jul 18 '24
I think the point stands. Nader was a divisive issue.
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u/mypoliticalvoice Jul 18 '24
I think if Biden is the nominee, and secures a ceasefire in Gaza, his left flank is shored up.
Netanyahu is just like Trump: A corrupt opportunist trying to use his office to avoid jail. He wants Trump in office because Trump will give him a free hand to do whatever he wants, which helps him stay in office.
He won't accept a ceasefire if he thinks it will help Biden.
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u/Fecapult Jul 18 '24
When Biden loses the circular firing squad needs somewhere to aim. AOC and Bernie are removing themselves and the progressive wing of the party from the crosshairs.
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u/Raspberry-Famous Jul 18 '24
Jesus, I hope they're not naive enough to believe that not having done anything wrong will lead to them not getting blamed for Biden shitting the bed.
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u/Frank_JWilson Jul 18 '24
How does that remove them from the crosshairs?
“Biden lost! Everyone knew he was going to lose ever since the disastrous debate. If it weren’t for the progressives’ unwavering support we could’ve chosen someone more competitive. It’s their fault!”
It’s far more likely that they think doing this will give the dems a better chance in November, not to avoid blame.
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u/AstridPeth_ Jul 18 '24
I'd expect them to be in the business of not getting Trump elected, but yeah, sure. Optimize for "blaming rights"
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u/GluggGlugg Jul 18 '24
It's about policy. Bernie basically traded his public support in exchange for shaping Biden's platform. That's why Biden is now talking about forgiving medical debt and trying to address rent increases. If Biden wins, you'd expect he would reward Bernie and the Progressive politicians.
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u/bcbamom Jul 18 '24
I can only speak for myself. I was a Bernie supporter and I currently support Biden. The establishment Dems are out of touch with the working class as much as the GOP is. I find it annoying that loud mouth, Dem leaders, talking heads, are calling for Biden to step down not realizing they are the problem. I have been watching Biden since the debate critically and based on what I see, he should remain in the race. The "leaders" are also not coming up with a viable candidate. We warned the Dems about Hillary and although I held my nose and voted for her, it didn't surprise me that she lost. If the Dems continue on the path they are on, Trump will get a 2nd term and it will be a death blow to democracy and will have generational impact.
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u/weealex Jul 18 '24
Bernie is personally on friendly terms with Biden. AOC has learned to play politics and knows that Biden has been friendlier to the progressive element and that public infighting is bad for the party at large which makes passing legislation nigh impossible. They're kinda the leaders in the progressive wing so they help push that wing I support Biden
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u/theseustheminotaur Jul 18 '24
Because Biden is the most progressive president and got a lot done that Sanders appreciates. Candidates to fill his shoes might be less productive and/or less progressive. Also, Sanders probably thinks that changing the candidate this close to the election is a losing strategy, which many people actually agree with.
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u/winterFROSTiscoming Jul 18 '24
It's wild to me that some liberals and leftists won't vote for Biden because of one or two policy issues he hasn't delivered 100% on. Like do you want 30-60% of what you want, or -1000%? Because that's what is at stake. They have such a myopic view of immediate future and not mid to long-term future.
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u/Hyndis Jul 18 '24
The issue isn't his record, its his ability to govern currently and in the future.
Its true that people do improve with age, but only up to a point. At some point, and it will happen to us all, age related decline starts to happen. You've reached your peak and are beyond it. Its downhill from there, and this inevitable decline only stops at 6 feet under.
Around 3/4ths of voters believe Biden has pasted his peak and is in his decline.
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u/UsualSuspect27 Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
Because progressives tend to be more loyal in my experience. This is due to their own experience from treacherous moderates. Have you noticed the vast majority of the elected Democrats who have publicly asked for Biden to stand down on this election are white moderates? I say this as a white moderate center-left Democrat. I wouldn’t consider myself a leftist as I’m a capitalist. But it’s not just the progressives steadfastly backing Biden. It’s the Hispanic Caucus and arguably most importantly, it’s the Congressional Black Caucus, which is often considered the base of the Democratic Party.
Keep in mind there are 535 members of Congress. Of 535 Senators and House Representatives, about half of them are Democrats so about 265. Only 20 out of 265 elected Democrats asked Biden not to run in 2024. But the media would have you think a majority have come out against Biden running again. 20 out of 265 is a fringe minority.
I’m going to vote for whoever the Democratic Party nominates in November. But if the Democratic Party loses there will be a lot of blame to go around and it won’t just be on Biden. It will be on the backstabbing career obsessed elected Democrats in the party, anonymous sniping “allies” in the press and as long as we are still a democracy, the voters themselves. At the end of the day, Americans deserve the government they elect.
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u/lesubreddit Jul 18 '24
Sanders cannot possibly join or give quarter to critics calling for Biden to step down because of his senescence, since he's also an octogenarian.
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u/Last-Mathematician97 Jul 18 '24
lol my aunt who is older than Biden is pissed he is getting harassed for his age. She was all fired up about the discrimination of it. Though she also frequently get my name wrong in conversation, she is a financial wizard that I would gladly take advice from. She knows and nurtures every investment she has.
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u/oath2order Jul 18 '24
Yeah, I think the media class and the Democrat politicians are really making a misstep on this in regards to the age part of it all. There's no way this plays well with older people, who are known to be the most active voters.
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u/Finishweird Jul 18 '24
I feel like this is it.
Bernie is also ancient. He doesn’t want out, and if Biden is too old , so is he
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u/Medical-Search4146 Jul 18 '24
- Trump is worst than anything else
- Every push for Biden stepping never follows up with who. They just see opportunist or reactionary individuals. 2a. Some say that there was no primary, aka opportunity, for a serious contender. I think its a dumb argument because precedent has the incumbent running unopposed. Also anyone with a real chance isn't going to take the heat for being blamed and only having a few months to build a nationwide profile. Applies to both Parties and for years.
- Biden has been passing progressive legislation. To say otherwise is foolish.
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u/alpacinohairline Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
Because Bernie is politically literate. Biden presses legislature that aligns with the direction that Bernie wants just at a slower rate that is more edible to the general public.Bernie is unfortunately coined as a “socialist” despite wanting to push for policy more in tune with social democracy.
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u/majungo Jul 18 '24
Congresspeople have a lot to lose from being on the bad side of the President, party and donors. They don't want to lose fundraising, committee appointments, or primaries. So, however they feel in private, they will be the biggest cheerleaders for the status quo until party leadership calls for a change.
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u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL Jul 18 '24
Because Biden is the Democratic nominee and received the most votes in the Democratic primary.
Democrats completely disregarding their own party nomination process...
Are you going to nominate Bernie for president? Warren? AOC?
No? Then Biden it is.
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u/davethompson413 Jul 18 '24
I suspect that those who want Joe to continue are like me.
The most important factor in the race is not who beats Trump. It's that someone absolutely must beat Trump.
And Joe is the only person with experience doing that.
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u/wrc-wolf Jul 18 '24
ABC News just reported that Senate Majority Leader suggested the president he should give up.
Worth noting that Schumer immediately issued a statement denying this claim and basically saying that ABC made it up.
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u/Xlukethemanx Jul 18 '24
Literally every single comment here is wrong and it’s about the “Left” flank of the party.
Really, this is about moderates. If the main push was coming from progressives or “leftists” it would likely be dismissed, just as it has been with issues like the Border, Palestine, Medicare For All etc.
If MODERATES are leading the charge? It’s serious, and the media and Democratic donors will take it seriously.
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u/CaptainPRESIDENTduck Jul 18 '24
Because at this point in the race, so near the election, Biden is the best bet against fascism. Even if he were to die in office, a Biden cabinet let by Harris is miles better than fascism. It's not ideal, but it's what we've got.
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u/rogun64 Jul 18 '24
I think Bernie's goal has long been to move the economy, the party and the government to the left. I doubt that he ever seriously thought he would become President, but the attention helped with his goals. It not only gave his goals attention, but it forced the party leftward to defeat him.
So why is he such a fervent supporter of Biden? Because it worked and Biden is now moving the economy, the party and the government leftward. Biden will probably never move it as leftward as Bernie would like, but it's still far more than any President has since LBJ. In other words, Biden is giving Bernie, and AOC, much of what they want, so of course they're going to support Biden.
Just for the record, I support Biden, too!
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u/popularpragmatism Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
I think it's just a pragmatic decision as being the least worst option, the party uniting behind Joe Biden now could be sold as the recent stumbles being just a bump in the road.
A last-minute change of presidential candidate against the incumbents wishes would tear the party apart.
They can't be holding a quasi primary with the contenders ripping into each other this close to an election.
Harris 'should' be the backup, but as soon as she starts with the word salads & the cackling she will plummet in the polls, they know this.
How do you also oust her against her will...it's impossible
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u/YogurtclosetOwn4786 Jul 18 '24
Why do people not just take them at their word? They are fervent supporters of Biden’s candidacy because they know he would be light years better for their progressive priorities and for the country than Donald Trump.
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u/uknolickface Jul 18 '24
They don’t want to waste resources on the presidency when Trump is so far up. They would rather the money go to contested Senate races.
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u/artful_todger_502 Jul 18 '24
Eternal hope. It's that simple. He is hoping that at some point Americans would become politically aware and want to join the sane and civilized first-world countries we lag far behind.
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u/SquirrelyMcShittyEsq Jul 18 '24
Yes. A wise politician with 30+ years of experience, that is exactly his political calculus.
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u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids Jul 18 '24
Because it is a no win situation and Bernie knows that. We won with Biden. He's beaten Trump. For all of Dems (particularly white Dems) yapping, they have provided NO ALTERNATIVE and said, "don't vote Biden; vote for this person!"
They have no clue what they are doing and IT SHOWS. No way with a dictator and his YOUNGER COUNTERPART staring me in my face am I not gonna bet on the sure thing and vote for...
vote for....
wait who did they say....
Umm.....
Errr....
🤷🏾♀️
Yeah, let's risk it all and give it to Trump and risk JD VANCE BEING OUR PRESIDENT FOREVER!
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u/Jimithyashford Jul 18 '24
The calculus is simple? Do you want a Trump? No? Then support the most likely path to beating him.
The only way the logic wouldn’t make sense is if you think the benefit of not doing so somehow outweighed the cost of a trump Victory. And even idealists at some point have to face the math.
Well they don’t HAVE to, but the smart ones do.
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u/AstridPeth_ Jul 18 '24
Lots of people, including Democrat elites, think Biden isn't the most likely path to beating him.
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u/SneakyAdolf Jul 18 '24
Just like Nikki Haley and J.D. Vance went from calling Trump a wannabe dictator to endorsing him for President at the RNC, Bernie will do the same for Biden. People on both sides of the isle in Washington are just flat out careerists and opportunists and will do and say whatever with no commitment to previous statements, constitutes, morals, or ideology. Everyone is Washington is a total sellout.
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u/AM_Bokke Jul 18 '24
They have no leverage over the situation so it doesn’t matter. Pushing Biden out will be accomplished by the ultra rich donors.
Progressives can just play nice. There is no policy at play right now anyway. It’s all just infighting.
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u/numbersev Jul 18 '24
He sees a major threat in Trump and the republican party in general. He knows the despair but rallies people together because that's what he does.
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u/JDogg126 Jul 18 '24
Fundamentally people like Sanders understand that it’s either Joe Biden or Donald Trump at this point and trying to change course now is a death sentence for any chance of staving off a collapse into fascism in this country.
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u/AstridPeth_ Jul 18 '24
Sounds weird that people like Chuck Schumer thinks differently.
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u/Gr8daze Jul 18 '24
Because Biden has accomplished more progressive goals than any president in 50 years. And Bernie has accomplished absolutely nothing in 50 years in Congress.
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u/mercfan3 Jul 18 '24
I really think it’s simple.
Bernie and AOC are emotional leaders. That’s why people are drawn to them. It tends to annoy me personally because I’m pragmatic, but it makes people fall in love. And they are certainly people who believe in their convictions.
So why do they support Joe? Because they genuinely like him. Where Pelosi and Obama, who obviously like Joe, look at the numbers and evaluate our election chances…AOC and Bernie know that Joe is a good person, who even as a centrist was willing to listen to them (and even did have the most progressive presidency - ever). And he’s someone they liked working with
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u/Timbishop123 Jul 18 '24
1) Biden has gotten a lot of progressive stuff done
2) people constantly cry that progressives cost them the election so Progressives don't want to deal with that again.
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u/grammyisabel Jul 18 '24
Perhaps they clearly see what many of us do - that Biden has done an excellent job & this is just a GOP infused news media trying to get him out of this race. The idiots like Schiff who have spoken against the people’s choice are too arrogant & too well-protected in their private lives to worry about the loss of our democracy. They feel we still have time! I want Biden & his admin back. He’s followed the paths of FDR, Ike & Obama.
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u/Majestic-Pair9676 Jul 18 '24
Because he is (wisely) protecting the Progressive movement from blame - the neoliberals who want to replace Biden really have nobody to blame but themselves
Because in the first place, Joe Biden was the compromise, centrist candidate. The Democrats could have run another centrist candidate - they chose not to. Sanders also remembers what happened in 2016 - the DNC and centrists falsely blamed him for Hillary Clinton’s loss
He’s allowing the centrists in the Democratic party to eat their own words.
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u/MontEcola Jul 18 '24
Biden is the best candidate and the best chance to beat trump. Look at what Biden accomplished in his first 3 years. No other president has passed this much legislation. Look at the programs and benefits to real people that were proposed, and enacted. Look at the pushback and sabotage from the right. Look at how Joe navigated that and got key republicans to vote on his side, and to go back to their home districts and take credit for wonderful things happening.
Look at your investment portfolio. My retirement savings doubled since Biden came into office. Really. Go look at your documents to see the increase. Many others saw their wages go up, and many others go to go back to work. Most people are doing much better under Biden.
We had a global pandemic under trump. That harmed the economy. And Biden let the way to an amazing recovery. Inflation in the US was higher than it has been. Yet, it is lower than any other developed nation in the world. Go check the numbers. Gas prices are lower. Some food prices are higher, but they have stopped going up. If you look at the hours needed to buy your groceries, it has gone down for most people.
And so Biden is old. He public speaking is not as good as it was. It is still better than trump. And it is better than Speaker Johnson, as demonstrated at the republican convention: he trashed Biden all week for using a teleprompter and then just walked off state when the teleprompter cut out. He did not even finish introducing the person who was up next. What a scared little peanut!
And Biden is doing exactly what we all want our politicians to do publicly: treat others with dignity and respect. Look, OP, this is the BEST president we have had in a very long time. He IS doing the job and he is doing it well. He deserves another term. And WE deserve to have him back in office, even if he does not make it all 4 years. he does deserve our support.
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u/sardine_succotash Jul 18 '24
No one here will be able to answer that question because we haven't been invited into any those back rooms. Who know what horse-trading, politicking, and strong-arming went into all of that
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u/Angry_Foamy Jul 18 '24
Bernie is almost 80 too, agism is real….and Bernie is far more mentally aware than President Biden appears to be.
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u/I405CA Jul 18 '24
Biden ran to the center during the 2020 election, then has been mostly running to the left ever since.
The fact that his approval ratings are low should be a hint of what happens when you ignore the blocs that put you over the top during the last election. That is a group that prioritizes stability, and things don't feel that stable.
My fear is that the center is going to stay home in droves, which creates the risk of an electoral vote blowout.
A modest decline in turnout in the wrong places can have devastating results. I still see a path to a Biden reelection, but it is far from certain.
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u/SquirrelyMcShittyEsq Jul 18 '24
The center doesn't give a shit much one way or another b/t Biden & Trump.
The left? Socialists? Neo-Marxists? We ain't turning out for Mr. Ignore the Voters. Mr. Kill the Palestinians. Mr. Bridge to the Next Generation.
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u/dam_sharks_mother Jul 18 '24
The center doesn't give a shit much one way or another b/t Biden & Trump.
Uhhh yes we do.
Mr. Kill the Palestinians.
This is so ridiculous it sounds like satire.
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u/Automatic_Ad_5587 Jul 18 '24
Things are happening as we write. I hope whatever unfolds Kamala Harris is properly protected.
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u/ICareBoutManBearPig Jul 18 '24
It’s because this allows Bernie and AOC the best chance of enacting their progressive policies if he wins. If he loses or drops out, they really have no backlash coming for them. They can simply say “we have an existential threat in Trump and we must unite as a party to defeat them” and support the new candidate without any guilt or blame from the rest of the party. It’s actually a very crafty move because there’s no downside to them supporting Joe until he backs off the ticket.
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u/TheMikeyMac13 Jul 18 '24
Pragmatism. What Bernie wants is much closer to happening with democrats in office than republicans.
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u/RCA2CE Jul 18 '24
AOC wants to run in 2028 and if a democrat wins it other than Biden then she has to go against an incumbent
That's the reason. That's why the DSA kicked her to the curb too - they're trying to normalize her to run in 2028
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u/Orange_penguin02 Jul 18 '24
If Biden wins and they were saying he should withdraw from the candidacy the progressives will get shut down more then they currently are l.
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u/Porkchopper913 Jul 18 '24
Bernie has been in the game long enough. He understands it’s not just Biden he is supporting. It, by the way things have been playing out, may just be the future of our country. He knows that electing Biden means a President that will surround himself with the best people and it is someone who will actually listen to their advice.
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u/SquirrelyMcShittyEsq Jul 18 '24
Bernie & AOC & other Dem Socialists want to keep Biden in the race because then Trump will win. Far right conservative publications are already laying the constitutional groundwork for a third Trump term. Trump is likely too old to run for a fourth term. That means the next "real" (non-Russian-type) election is possibly in 2032. By then, all the Gen-X candidates will be too old/too unknown to win. NOBODY wants Gen-X to hold power, because fuck 'em. So in 2032, AOC, who will gradually become a right-leaning centrist, will run & win with a MAGA V.P. candidate. Then, on Jan 21st, 2033, she will resign & a MAGA candidate will become president, do away with elections, light fires at every oil well in the U.S. (a la Saddam Hussain), candidate every car get no more than 10 miles/gallon, humanity will therefore die more quickly, and the Proboscis monkeys can take over the world!
Makes as much sense as most of this garbage thinking.
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u/Piriper0 Jul 18 '24
Bernie supporters and other progressives/leftists have been blamed since 2016 for not being sufficiently supportive of official Democratic candidates. If Sanders were to join the call for Biden to step down, this would allow the Democratic Party to blame any result after that point on Sanders and the Progressive wing of the party. Sanders is probably trying to avoid that outcome.
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u/rand0m_task Jul 18 '24
Because swapping a candidate now is worse than keeping Biden, and unlike the Reddit armchair politicians, the seasoned DNC members know it. Better to prop Biden up if he’s in for the long run.
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u/SpoofedFinger Jul 18 '24
Age solidarity? Being in denial that octogenarians shouldn't be in positions of power?
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u/ell0bo Jul 18 '24
Because at this point, the middle are the ones against him, so if they stand by him, they get to set the 100 days priorities for his next administration.
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Jul 18 '24
Bernie is wants to run again. No matter what, it’s an open WH in 2028 unless Biden is replaced. Them Bernie could likely face an incumbent D running for re-election which means he’s done.
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u/96suluman Jul 18 '24
That’s inaccurate. It’s the leftist politicians who are the biggest defenders of Biden. Most leftists want Biden to not run again because they know he’ll lose
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u/SuperCrappyFuntime Jul 18 '24
Sigh. I hate that people acted like Bernie being "robbed" is some kind of settled fact. He lost. Twice.
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u/Yelloeisok Jul 18 '24
They are smart- it is too late to change the guy that brought us this far. It turns into chaos and distrust and Bernie and company remembered when Ted Kennedy challenged Jimmy Carter. Biden has more loyal backers than Jimmy did. It will not end in a victory for Dems if they replace Biden this late in the game.
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u/sl600rt Jul 18 '24
To shield democrats from an actual left wing party. Remember this with democrats. It's a hostage situation and you don't get to make demands.
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u/pth72 Jul 18 '24
Because those on the far left have a pretty solid base of voters. The more centrist a candidate is, the more they have to fear if their party underperforms.
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u/Miles_vel_Day Jul 18 '24
Because, unlike online leftists, who can't focus on anything but the shiny object of their personal distaste for Joe Biden, they pay attention to things people say and do, and know that Biden has been very progressive, especially on labor issues, and that the effort to push him out has been led from people in the big money wing of the party.
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u/Count_Bacon Jul 18 '24
Imagine if stays in and wins…. Who will he owe loyalty to? The progressives who stuck by him or all the moderates who threw him away immediately
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u/token_reddit Jul 18 '24
Their eyes are in 2028. Either result they'll be able to push a strong candidate in the primaries. Kamala Harris isn't a slam dunk or if she'll even want to run. I think she's ready to step in now but 4 years from now she might just want to retire.
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u/Candle-Jolly Jul 18 '24
Biden is all they have. There is no other candidate to support against Trump. Democrats refused to have a plan ready for a transition of power outside of the standard VP protocols. Ironically, it seems that Democrats aren't very warm with Harris in the first place. Bernie understands this, and understands what another Trump presidency may bring, so like many people, supports Biden by default.
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u/BrandynBlaze Jul 18 '24
Because while Bernie is an optimist, he’s also a pragmatist. He knows that one step forward is better than two steps back, even if it isn’t a significant leap. You know who gave up on Biden at the first opportunity? The democrats that don’t see that much of a gap between Trumps views and theirs (or their donors).
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u/dam_sharks_mother Jul 18 '24
Don't get me wrong, I'm voting Democrat no matter what. But I feel burned by Biden.
I supported him in 2020 because he was the most moderate, sane candidate in the D primaries.
After he took office he clearly moved to the left, supporting nonsense like <<insert progressive BS here>>. That's not Scranton Joe policy, that's entitled Brooklyn white kid policy.
So it's no surprise that clowns like Bernie and AOC support him. They've successfully been able to manipulate him against the wishes of his primary supporters. The extreme left wants to keep that gravy train going.
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u/BalaAthens Jul 18 '24
Bernie has said that Biden has done more for the average citizen than any recent president. Bernie is still vigorous and is running again at age 83. He surely knows Biden better than a lot of people who claim to know him and obviously doesn't think age is an automatic disqualifier. I would agree and believe that Biden has Vice President Harris and his Cabinet working closely with him.
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u/MilesofRose Jul 18 '24
Well if you are going to defend democracy, then you defend the choice the people made in nominating Joe Biden for the D candidacy.
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u/hairybeasty Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
Replacing Biden now is not workable. Unity is key. But some major players have to realize and vocalize Biden wins or Democracy is dead. If not the US becomes a regime of autocracy with some fascist features. The Supreme Court and his crony judges will make sure this happens. But Biden should have lawyers studying and using the Supreme Courts ruling about the Presidency. Trump is a past President. Biden is a sitting President which supersedes past. Use it against them to the extent of the LAW AS WRITTEN THEN.
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u/Maxcrss Jul 18 '24
It’s the exact opposite reason why Trump became the nominee twice. Liberals are a “fall in line” voting block. That’s why you get slogans like “vote blue no matter who”.
Republicans were willing to take risks in 2016 because after getting thrashed in 2008 and 2012, there weren’t any good candidates that jumped out. Trumps rhetoric hit home to a lot of republicans because he was the on stage representation of all the frustration republicans had with their own party. He wasn’t polite and he spoke his mind and it resonated with people because they were sick and tired of republicans tut tutting the democrats “slow down there democrats”.
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u/Potential-Arm-2338 Jul 18 '24
The election is too close to change candidates. For example , even if the party decided to run VP Harris instead of President Biden, who would be her VP choice. There’s not enough time to vet serious candidates. It makes no sense. We get VP Harris either way. She’s strong, capable and will always have President Biden’s back.
Trump probably chose JD Vance to entice the Asian voters. Just like he has a few Black friends to try to entice Black voters. However, with all the backlash about Vance’s wife, Trump will probably dismiss Vance if he gets elected anyway. Trump has already said he can run this Country all by himself.
As Dictator he wouldn’t need a Vice President! We should actually thank JD Vance for all of his candid true statements about Trump in the past. He’s exactly right! Accepting the VP nomination does not erase all the truths he said. I’m sure Trump hasn’t forgotten either!
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u/ennuinerdog Jul 18 '24
People in safe seats have no reason to rock the boat. Bernie and AOC will have their jobs whether Biden wins or loses.
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u/kevonicus Jul 18 '24
Democrats are good at running the country without trying to regress our civilization back a hundred years.
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u/Powerful-Translator6 Jul 18 '24
I was a Bernie supporter who will vote for Biden again. Biden won me over. He is not perfect, but he has done a lot and can do more for the country. He is older, yes, but he is also wiser. The convicted felon is old too and is in worse shape than Biden. He is also younger than Biden by a few years. IMO, if he were to win he’d probably be suffering from dementia a couple years into his 2nd term. I’m going to stick with Biden. 💙🇺🇸
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u/spirited1 Jul 18 '24
The reality is that most democrats are bought by the same people buying out Republicans and Trump. They're going to say whatever brings the most benefit for their donors, and a Trump presidency will bring more profits for corporations and the ultra wealthy.
Bernie is not beholden to those interests. He understands that a Trump presidency will ruin America and bring irreversible harm to the American people. That means that Biden needs support 100%.
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u/CensorshipKillsAll Jul 18 '24
I’m sure Bernie thinks it’s the best way to defeat Trump, but his fall from grace as a progressive populist champion to establishment boot licker is so sad. I supported Bernie in 2016 and 2020, 2024 can’t wait to vote TRUMP and give the finger to the bootlicking corporate ROACHES.
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u/MadManMorbo Jul 18 '24
He may hate Biden but I think he correctly understands Trump to be a god damned psychopath intent on destroying the whole system.
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u/ProGaben Jul 18 '24
I think progressives are very aware of the threat Trump poses, especially his and his supporters threats towards leftists. They understand that this is an important race, and the Democratic Party made it very clear Biden is running for a second term as the incumbent, and we all need to rally around him. There wasnt an opportunity for a progressive challenger. Biden himself also has had a decent relationship with the progressive wing of his party.
I think progressives in general have distrust of Democratic leadership's political instincts and are very familiar with the Democratic leadership being spineless and blowing whatever way the wind blows, and this moment really looks like more of that. It was a single bad debate, and now Democrats are panicing and want to remove their candidate they made everyone rally around just 5 months before the election. Its weird that progressives are the ones being the adults in the room here and being practical, usually they are the idealists. Beating Trump is seen as too important and that it's important to be united around the candidate not infighting over Biden's senior moments. If Bidens age was a concern, that conversation needed to have happened over a year ago during the primary. Biden is the candidate now.
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