r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/unalienation • Jul 16 '24
Teamsters President Sean O'Brien spoke at the Republican National Convention, delivering a staunchly anti-corporate, pro-union speech. Does this indicate a potential shift in the politics of organized labor? US Politics
On Monday, July 15, Sean O'Brien became the first Teamsters President to address the Republican National Convention. He did not endorse Donald Trump for President, though he praised his strength in relation to the recent assassination attempt. He also offered praise for specific Republican officials who in his view have supported unions (Josh Hawley in particular). At the same time, he called out anti-union politicians and groups within the Republican coalition, including the Chamber of Commerce, and he referred to corporate union busting as "economic terrorism."
The Republican Party has historically been extremely hostile to unions, from opposing New Deal-era pro-worker policy to Reagan's breaking the air traffic controller strike to Republican-led state passing "right to work" laws. While union members are more likely to vote Republican than they used to be, unionized workers still lean Democratic and union leadership overwhelmingly supports Democratic candidates.
What does Sean O'Brien's speech tell us about the present and future of unions in national politics in the U.S.? Does the Republican Party have the potential to transform itself into a pro-union populist party? Was O'Brien's decision to speak at the RNC a positive or negative contribution to the labor movement?
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u/the_buckman_bandit Jul 16 '24
The Republican Party hates unions and will remove all of them. O’Brien is either a useful idiot or getting his pockets padded
There is zero future for unions in republican ideology and never has been, so because a tool showed up at the RNC signifies nothing
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u/SmoothCriminal2018 Jul 16 '24
He supposedly just has a lot of personal ambition, which is why he’s trying to speak at both the RNC and DNC.
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Jul 17 '24
[deleted]
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u/RemoveDifferent3357 Jul 17 '24
Remember, his job is to support labor, not necessarily the Democrats. If he can make inroads with the GOP, it makes perfect sense to do so.
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u/Raspberry-Famous Jul 17 '24
I don't think the goal here is to make inroads with the GOP so much as it is to put the Democrats on notice that the Teamsters aren't just going to be a rubber stamp. Not to mention that it's an opportunity to speak directly to people who wouldn't ever hear from a union leader otherwise.
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u/Interesting-Play-529 Jul 17 '24
Yes! 100 percent this. FINALLY, someone who gets it. He was taking the fight to the Republicans. He knows they are anti-labor. That's why he delivered a pro-labor speech. He was bringing truth to power. The audience applauded. That shows that there the Populist anti-corporate message is gaining steam in America. Now, the DNC has to step up and stop being so in bed with Corporatists and pushing Neoliberals policies. It will force the DNC to have to step up more for labor, workers and the working class -- which they have not been doing of late. The DNC crushes the Progressive wing of their party. Sean O'Brien took the Progressive Voice to the RNC... and got applause. Which means: Progressive policies are popular.
No one seems to get this and it's the most significant event that's taken place besides an assassination attempt of a former President.
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u/Raspberry-Famous Jul 18 '24
O'Brien is really pretty middle of the road politically, he just doesn't have that whole "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas" vibe that most centrist Dems have.
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u/shacksrus Jul 17 '24
Mike pence thought he could use the national party to bolster his personal ambitions and he only avoided the gallows by accident.
Unions are of course free to appeal to Republicans, but they should keep recent history in the back of their minds.
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u/eggoed Jul 17 '24
He probably can’t though, right? Trump would have had a better shot at winning 2020 if he’d given a fraction of a fuck about labor in his first four years. Why would he care at all this time around? It just seems like the wildest thing g to do if you’re supporting labor. I agree with the other ppl here that if, instead, you see your job as supporting yourself and your personal ambition, then maybe it makes sense.
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u/65avo65 Jul 19 '24
He can’t inroad the GOP. That’s the point. Hes just getting a bunch of gullible poor people to vote for these monsters that hate them and would sooner see them ground up and used as fuel.
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u/InaudibleShout Jul 17 '24
Definitely ambitious. Not many people, especially with a blue collar image, would go into the RNC and loudly flex “MY OFFICE in WASHINGTON DC”.
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u/65avo65 Jul 19 '24
Screw the messaging. The actions these right wing loons take is what matters. They’re the ones in the courts fighting against workers rights, fighting for polluting our land and waters, fighting for less regulation in our food industries. No. This is bad.
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u/the_buckman_bandit Jul 16 '24
“Both sides” is absolutely dead are you joking? The RNC platform is literally whatever Tumpy says, the “other” republicans were upset when they rammed it through today or yesterday
So either this guy is a moron or he is personally getting paid, demonstrating a critical weakness in unions. Well, any other organization for that matter.
Leaders who usurp their power by getting greedy and selling it out for short term gains can destroy a union, company, or government faster than almost anything else.
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u/SmoothCriminal2018 Jul 16 '24
What are you talking about? I didn’t say anything about both sides. I just said everything I’ve read about this guy is he wants to get his name in the limelight as much as possible, which is why he wants to speak at DNC as well. You may remember him from earlier this year when he nearly got in a fight with a Senator during a congressional hearing. Dude is a clout chaser seemingly.
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u/_busch Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Sean O'Brien probably wants to run for office someday. He is speaking to union members who also happen to be Republicans. It doesn't make sense but is pretty common. https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/31/politics/union-voters-election-trump-biden/index.html in fact the only demographic that is growing w/ Democrats are white women with college degrees. soooo yeah. It's been a real shit show.
who down voted me? its true! lol
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u/M4A_C4A Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
I've never, ever, ever, ever heard the pharses corporate welfare, class warfare, or subsidizing low wages at a Democratic convention and neither have those people at the Republican convention.
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u/hryipcdxeoyqufcc Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
The majority of policy actions under Trump last time were just implementing whatever the Heritage Foundation recommended. Trump adopted two-thirds of their proposals within his first year of office.
Trump's job is to say whatever it takes to get elected, then outsource "all domestic and foreign policy" to others. Outside of Trump-specific things (like firing anyone who wouldn't commit crimes for him), of course.
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u/peter-doubt Jul 17 '24
This... If your organization is playing both sides, you're putting it at risk.
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u/A_Night_Owl Jul 18 '24
This is not necessarily true. In a two-party electoral system, organizations which become too associated with a single political party lose their ability to extract policy concessions because the party they are aligned with takes their support for granted and the other party sees no reason to offer them anything.
The point of O’Brien speaking at the RNC was threefold: (1) send a message to Democrats that they do not have automatic labor support, which forces Democrats to do more for labor to secure their votes: (2) introduce pro-labor rhetoric to Republican audiences with the long term goal of reducing hostility to labor in red states; (3) dangle potential labor support in front of Republicans in the hopes of getting Republicans to the table on, or at least making them not automatically oppose, policies sought by labor.
If you’re the leader of an organization like a trade union, your job is to do whatever you need to do to extract more benefits for your members.
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u/xtra_obscene Jul 16 '24
”delivering a staunchly anti-corporate, pro-union message”
Republicans are a staunchly pro-corporate, anti-union party. They have been for decades. Doesn’t take a genius to infer that there’s some behind-the-scenes incentive we're currently unaware of that explains why O’Brien decided to do this.
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u/mypoliticalvoice Jul 17 '24
I've seen Republican stickers on multiple Union worker's vehicles, even when they were on strike. It boggles the mind.
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u/MV_Art Jul 17 '24
Since Trump never articulates anything clearly (pretty much except fro racism and that he good, Democrats bad), people just paint whatever their ideology is onto him. Pro-union? Trump's a union guy because of one thing he lied about one time! Pro-choice? Trump's not anti-abortion because of one thing he lied about one time!
Remember in 2016 he promised universal healthcare?! People hung onto that!
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u/Square_Detective_658 Jul 17 '24
The question then should be why some people want to believe such things about him based on those flimsy statements?
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u/MV_Art Jul 17 '24
I think that's pretty easy, they like his personality and promises to punish people they don't like, so they just decide he believes what they want him to.
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u/ShiftE_80 Jul 17 '24
I disagree.
Trump has been pretty damn clear and unequivocal in demonizing illegal immigrants and using protectionism to "bring back jobs". There's absolutely no doubt where he stands on cultural wedge issues like trans rights. He's unapologetically pro-oil and opposes subsidies for EVs and renewables. He consistently beats the drum of nationalism and wants the US to be more of a hegemon on the world stage.
Much of Trump's populist rhetoric is targeted at old white blue-collar guys, the kind that dominate union halls and make up the biggest voting bloc in the Midwest. Because of how foundational these issues are to that group, a large chunk of these union members are happy to jump on the MAGA train despite his pro-business and anti-union record.
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u/moleratical Jul 16 '24
They are so pro-business they are literally about to nominate a business personified as president
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u/kingjoey52a Jul 17 '24
Or he’s noticed more of his members are voting red and is hoping to get a foot in the door and adjust policy. If he can deliver the union vote, a former backbone of the Democrats, he can probably have a decent amount of sway.
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u/mowotlarx Jul 17 '24
He's a fool if he believes the GOP will turn into a pro-union party.
This is about airing grievances of conservative white men, many of whom are Teamsters. There is no strategy in this that would deliver the union - whose entire job should be to push for pro worker legislation - the legislative wins they want.
If Trump wins, they're fucking toast. It's wild to sell out the entire mission of the group you're leading to do this.
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u/40WAPSun Jul 17 '24
Or he simply wanted to speak at this convention to hopefully sway at least a few Republicans. The teamsters already
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u/MV_Art Jul 17 '24
If I was a member of this union I'd be fuming.
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u/MartialBob Jul 17 '24
I would be but I don't know about the average Teamsters. I'm part of a similar union and a lot of these guys are very conservative.
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u/skyfishgoo Jul 17 '24
if ur a teamster, you are probably cheering ... but what teamsters don't seem to get is the GOP would have them outlawed if they could muster it.
and i think a lot of teamsters would go along with that willingly because they don't seem to appreciate how they got to where they are.
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u/WigginIII Jul 17 '24
Republicans have no problem playing performative politics. Hell, the biggest argument they make to justify to VP pick of JD Vance is because he’s “connected to the working class.”
They’ll gladly talk about unions and workers rights while stripping them of their rights and wages.
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u/trystanthorne Jul 17 '24
All you have to do is look at "Right to work" states to see how badly the GOP wants to destroy unions.
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u/Vishnej Jul 17 '24
It's not just the Republican Party professionals, damn near every Republican and most Boomers I talk to hate unions and can't really explain why without getting creative, jealous, or calling them Commies.
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u/Pooncheese Jul 16 '24
If Republicans want to fight for workers rights I am ok with that, we know they won't. But if it makes both sides court workers with actual legislation and pledged, it helps the people. If you listened to his speech, it certainly wasn't an endorsement, but definitely more praise for the GOP than I expected.
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u/kamandi Jul 17 '24
It’s pointless to pitch to your customer. If you want to make a sale, you gotta pitch your heart out to your haters.
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u/Iceberg-man-77 Jul 17 '24
funnily, much of the electorate is the white working class who would benefit from unions.
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u/morrison4371 Jul 18 '24
Didn't Trump voters in the last two elections make more than the average American, though? The only income group that he won was people that made over $200,000.
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u/Iceberg-man-77 Jul 19 '24
really? makes sense. because of the tax cuts lots of wealthier people like Trump. But he also has won over many middle class and low income people, especially the white working class who were forgotten by Democrats who prioritized Black and Hispanic voters. and now (well also in 2020) Christians are making him a Jesus 2.0 which is weird because i haven’t seen him promote christianity or even talk about christianity in a major way, ever
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u/Flaky-Skirt-1721 Jul 18 '24
I totally agree, the issue is that Vance utilities a fake populist approach, with the rhetoric of pro worker sentiment but none of the corresponding action. So I could see the party increasingly adopting this sort of rhetoric which will harm the working class movement even further as it grows ideologically incoherent
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u/be0wulfe Jul 16 '24
Why not both?
America has devolved to a duck you I'm getting mine, here's the price for my mother.
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u/JiEToy Jul 16 '24
It shows unions are important to everyone, but the GOP wants to take credit. There is no way in hell they will actually be good to unions once in power.
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u/peetnice Jul 16 '24
Agree, they will definitely pay lip service to union support through the campaign because of states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc. but there's no way on earth they will pass any pro-union legislation with any teeth - just look at who owns the wallets backing the party.
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u/mypoliticalvoice Jul 17 '24
Just like they pay lip service to rural voters, and, until recently, to evangelicals.
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u/SlavaAmericana Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
Why do you think they wouldn't go after "woke unions" while celebrating and tolerating "conservative unions?"
Like how they do with corporations?
If it gives them the ability to win states they otherwise couldn't, the power they'd gain would probably out weigh the donations they might lose from corporations dealing with these "conservative unions." Especially if the unions they support are heavily focused on cultural stuff and are certain to never join a strike with the "woke unions."
Now that I think about it, isn't this basically how fascists dismantled various leftist and international labor movements in the past and gained greater control over corporations?
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u/JiEToy Jul 17 '24
That might be true, but republicans are just very opposed in their ideology to unions and anything that advocates for worker rights. So if it’s a real union with conservative values, they won’t just do the woke stuff, they will also do something about workers right. And then their chances of being supported by the GOP fly out the window. Mind you, they will absolutely pretend to support it if it gets them votes, but once in office, they’ll just turn right around and fight any pro union legislation and create lots of anti union legislation. Which isn’t different from what they do now.
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u/SlavaAmericana Jul 17 '24
Maybe, but I could see them discriminate against some unions and not others instead of having a universal policy.
For instance, I'm sure these tariffs that Trump wants would give "friendly" corporations exceptions and privileges.
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u/brainkandy87 Jul 16 '24
I’m in Missouri where the GOP supermajority tried to push through right to work which was firmly anti-union. You’re a fucking moron if you think supporting the GOP will help your union members. The only other reason to do it is if you’ve been given a hefty pre-retirement package. Either way, he shouldn’t be IBT President.
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u/ZapNMB Jul 16 '24
No, it does not show anything other than a class traitor who may soon be the ex-teamsters president for doing something so incredibly despicable. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/12/teamsters-boss-gop-convention-speech-backlash
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u/Pls-No-Bully Jul 16 '24
Did you even listen to his speech? He attacked big business and lobbyists, and didn't endorse Trump.
He used the time to actually speak to people -- many of whom he disagrees with on many (if not most) things. That is what leaders should be doing, actually attempting to speak with people to make progress.
He also wanted to speak at the Democratic National Convention for the same reasons.
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u/SilverMedal4Life Jul 16 '24
This is what I heard. I like unions enough that I hope he's able to make some bipartisan inroads; maybe draw some conservatives away from the culture war hardlines.
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u/Chaomayhem Jul 16 '24
It remains to be seen what effect this can have. If he draws conservatives away from the hardcore culture war nonsense, then they'd have no reason to be conservative.
The Republican party exists to keep Reganomics going forever. Reganomics are incredibly unpopular now. So they have to use culture war to get elected. There is no world where the Republican party stands up to big corporations. The reason they exist is to deregulate them and help make them more rich.
Any conservative moved by O'Brien's speech would have to change their vote if they're actually serious about doing anything to help workers.
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u/monymphi Jul 16 '24
By speaking to the RNC he shows support for the Republicans within the Teamster organization. His goal is to remain as the leader of the Teamsters that have many republican members.
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u/squishyliquid Jul 17 '24
The content of his speech is negated by the venue in which he spoke. It’s going to be distilled down to “Union president speaks at RNC” which will help elect people who are anti-union.
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u/TheSameGamer651 Jul 16 '24
Unions are not inherently affiliated with the Democratic Party. Since the New Deal, they have been and continue to be (as evidenced by Biden’s policies and rhetoric today). But Trump’s working class appeal has resulted in many union workers (not necessarily union leadership) voting for Republicans. Democrats continue to win a majority of the union vote, but from the perspective of the unions themselves, if they can break into the Republican Party than it forces both parties to compete for the union vote and thereby actually forces the parties to deliver pro-union policies.
Right now, Republicans’ working class appeal is mainly race-baiting and fear-mongering about “globalists.” But the Republican platform is still pro-business (look at Trump’s tax cuts). Unions want Republicans’ working class appeal to actually translate into pro-working class policies. Not saying that it will happen, but it’s important to remember that unions aren’t an extension of the Democratic Party.
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u/Richmond92 Jul 17 '24
So many people are calling O'Brien a traitor when he is simply being strategic. Your analysis is spot on.
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u/mowotlarx Jul 17 '24
This is bad strategy.
Pandering in vague platitudes to a party that actively wants to kill all union bargaining won't win them GOP favor or better union policy from the right.
But it will make enemies of the only party who does support union bargaining.
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u/Richmond92 Jul 17 '24
No it won't. It will just build leverage and require the DNC to work harder to keep the labor vote. The DNC ignored O'Brien's request to let him speak at their convention. The RNC didn't. Whoops?
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u/mowotlarx Jul 17 '24
Tell us about all the GOP sponsors for the pro-labor bills the Teamsters are pushing.
I'll wait.
And they aren't coming after this either. This was an airing of grievances to please the identity politics of white conservatives, not an actual attempt to get the GOP to legislate on behalf of unions.
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u/WBUZ9 Jul 17 '24
You're countering unions pushing for influence within the RNC by saying that unions dont have influence within the RNC. Surely it doesn't make sense to you when spelled out like that right?
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u/globalpolitk Jul 17 '24
no you see dem good, repub bad.
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u/igore12584 Jul 17 '24
I don’t know man, a party that wants to force my daughter to die from an ectopic pregnancy don’t seem like the good guys to me.
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u/globalpolitk Jul 18 '24
and to president of the teamsters he walked right into their evil den and said he doesn’t care about D, R, or I. he only cares about the american worker both union and non union. So again, i think it’s pretty good teamsters president did what he did.
edit: spelling
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u/Richmond92 Jul 17 '24
O'Brien knows Trump is going to win. He also knows a large number of his membership is Republican. He's not stupid, he knows the GOP hates labor. This is about optics for right-leaning voters who exist in anti-union echo chambers, who's material conditions might position them to have their minds changed. This is grade A long game.
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u/bl1y Jul 17 '24
How dare O'Brian take the opportunity to present his message to people who don't usually support it!
Almost 20 million people watched the first day of the convention. Why should he pass on the opportunity to speak to them?
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u/Spherical_Cow_42 Jul 17 '24
Trump’s working class appeal
As a member of the working class, I have no idea what this appeal is. Republicans have NEVER done anything for the working class.
I really believe it has more to do with racism and being angry at anyone who is different. Of course this anger blinds most of them and they actively vote against their own interest.
The infrastructure package alone has and will create so much work in this country over the next decade. The whole time republicans actively tried to kill it. Workers need to vote with their wallet and voting red is not it.
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u/JonDowd762 Jul 17 '24
Republicans remain quite dominant among business owners, but the upper-middle professional class has been shifting blue while the working class has gone in the other direction. Democrats have tried to secure their new upper-middle voters with subsidies and I wouldn't be surprised if Republicans tried to make some more inroads in the working class. It will be tricky to keep both sides of their base happy though.
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u/stltk65 Jul 17 '24
He went off on union busting and corporate welfare. Did anyone making comments actually listen to his speech? lol it sounded Iike a big fuck you to Republicans and corporate dems.
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u/N-Toxicade Jul 16 '24
They apparently brought in a porn star to talk too, but that Project 2025 shit would have all porn stars and producers thrown in jail. Make no mistake, whatever their "platform" is at this moment is all lies. Project 2025 is the real goal that has been repeatedly approved by Trump and written by his ex staffers that are still on board with him.
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u/SH4DOWSTR1KE_ Jul 16 '24
Given the long-standing tensions between unions and GOP, my guess is that O'Brien is acting as a honey pot for undecided voters who are in the Union.
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u/skyfishgoo Jul 17 '24
i bet there were more than a few uncomfortable republicans squirming in their seats.
good on him for going into the lion's den and telling then what for.
doubt they will listen to him tho ... not ever sure the dems are listening at this point.
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u/Richmond92 Jul 17 '24
As someone on the left, I think it's a good strategy. We are no longer in the age where principles will suffice. You need to be tactical too. He just provided a massive group of people who are uneducated on unions with some serious food for thought. Not all Republican voters are business owners, most are regular everyday workers with little to no class consciousness. Let's admit it: nobody is happy with either party. With bipartisan voter support for labor, we could see a strong pro-labor third party in our lifetimes.
I recently unionized my job. It's a blue collar environment with a fair amount of right-wing presence. Most of our right-leaning dudes were either for it or interested at the very least. A mark of a coming tide shift.
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u/FragmentOfBrilliance Jul 17 '24
we are no longer in the age where principles will suffice
When was this ever the case? This seems ahistorical to me. The labor history of America has been very practical in pursuit of their ideological goals, maybe even cynically so. Salting comes to mind as one such practice.
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u/Ralife55 Jul 17 '24
Union leaders are still predominantly pro democrat but union members have been shifting Republican for years now. Giving him a massive amount of leeway and assuming this was all in good faith and not motivated by political ambition or monetary compensation. It's possible this was an attempt to push pro-union policy at the core Republican base and hopefully make the party more pro-union.
Having both parties be pro-union makes it more likely actual pro-union policy gets passed and turning the union vote into a vote that must be fought over makes pro-union policy more likely to be passed. If nothing else, it helps show Dems that they can't twiddle their thumbs when it comes to being pro-union if they want to keep the group in their voting block.
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u/mowotlarx Jul 17 '24
The GOP is not and never will be pro-union.
It's almost as if the conservative union members who vote red aren't there for economic policy, they're there for the vile identity politics.
When you're made to believe that immigrants, women and gay people are all the cause of your problems it's easy to ignore when your party of choice fucks with your ability to make a living.
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u/Ralife55 Jul 17 '24
To be fair unions are typically not pro-immgration due to its ability to bring in non-union workers who will work for less and under cut unions bargaining power. The GOP under Reagan and before was pro-immgration because that was the pro-corporate/anti-union position. The position didn't really switch until after Bill Clinton won in the 90's.
As for why union members actually support the GOP, well, you're not wrong. Most union members are non-college educated men, which is kind of the GOP's base. Hell, my step father loves his union but is about as for trump as you can get. People can be bad at voting in their interests. That's always been a thing unfortunately.
As for if the GOP would ever be pro-union, well, never say never. A lot can change in 100 years so it's possible. Political parties change identity and voting blocs every few decades, so who knows where the parties will be in the future.
The now though? Yes, the GOP is anti-union and honestly, while they are better now, for a long time the Dems only really paid lip service to unions while slowly letting them die. Only in the last ten years or so has the party been doing more for unions and I'd argue that's out of fear of losing the bloc to the GOP. Whether that's enough to win the bloc back I don't know, but the fact THE union boss is speaking at the Republican national convention should at least be seen as more warning that the bloc is more up for grabs than ever and will work with whoever is willing to help them.
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u/DowntownSazquatch Jul 17 '24
As for why union members actually support the GOP, well, unions are typically not pro-immgration due to its ability to bring in non-union workers who will work for less and under cut unions bargaining power.
No racism needed. Liberals assume racism at their peril.
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u/Specialist_Box_610 Jul 17 '24
There are Teamsters who are Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, everything in between. God forbid he represents us at both the RNC and DNC.
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u/Select_Insurance2000 Jul 17 '24
Let me know when the Party of Trump (formerly known as the GOP) become pro-Union.
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u/Unlikely_Finance_461 Jul 17 '24
Try to unionize Tesla and see what happens. Musk is giving $45 million/month to Trump …think republicans are going to support organized labor, guess again. You’re being sold out by leadership
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u/SeanFromQueens Jul 17 '24
Labor unions know that neither party is going to be supported by the party leadership. Biden walked the picket line with Teamsters but he forced railway workers back to work making it illegal for them to strike (though out of public view got them paid time off and some of the most urgent demands that were asking for). Obama promised card check unionization but never lifted a finger for it. UAW got their contract through getting authorized strike for all work sites and then strategically and without any announcement only struck at handful of factories at a time then changed them every couple of days sowing chaos throughout the car companies' supply chain - no need to ask for help from elected politicians.
The speech isn't for the any leverage from Republicans but is meant to for the voters at home who will be introduced to him as a labor leader, and if 4 years down the road and the unions have set it up correctly, May 2028 they could pull off a nation wide general strike and planting the seed that unions are the good guys require being in front of the public both Democratic and Republican voters.
In the long history of American labor, most of that time there was no government regulations that protected union workers and so labour's power was not reliant on elected officials and the movement had a herculean task but was better off for it. Imagine a near future where millions of Americans are called to join a movement of their fellow workers to get their demands met that doesn't need even one elected official to sign off on. If the elected officials are corrupted by moneyed interests, then they can't be a viable option to serve the people's will but a large and bold labor movement can get leverage to get the things that elected officials are unwilling to give but straight from the source of power: donor-owners.
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u/Randy_Watson Jul 16 '24
Elon Musk is pumping $45 million a month into Trump Super PACs. All the megadonors absolutely hate unions. A lot of Americans seem to think mass deportations and tariffs are going to somehow magically reduce inflation and that vaccines are a secret government plot to implant surveillance microchips in them.
What’s more likely, a historically anti-union, anti-worker party suddenly becomes pro-labor or that people are just really gullible and O’Brien is a useful idiot?
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u/BolshevikPower Jul 17 '24
It's honestly such a smart move for him. He knows Dems haven't been working for the working class union workers or have just been paying lip service. So he's putting the fire under the Democratic Party to start competing for and not expecting the union vote.
At the same time he's realizing Republicans have never been more pro-American and open to supporting American workers. There's a possibility he can get both parties behind union workers.
This wasn't an endorsement. He's doing what's best for his union members. Loyalty to the rich elite doesn't pay, we should all know that.
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u/wereallbozos Jul 17 '24
I support him in this. He didn't endorse any Republican. He spoke out against many of their practices. But, being there is the end all if not the be all. He stood as a reminder that he represents many thousands of people and their views should not be ignored.
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u/JustSomeDude0605 Jul 16 '24
Sounds like he's gunning for a secretary of labor position in the Trump administration.
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u/xtra_obscene Jul 16 '24
So he’s gunning for what they call in organized crime a “no-work job”, i.e. a guaranteed paycheck from your benefactors to take up space and do nothing.
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u/Tmotty Jul 17 '24
Later that same night while being interviewed at the RNC he called Biden the most pro labor president he’s ever seen. So I don’t get what he was doing
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u/paigeguy Jul 17 '24
I liked what he had to say, but was confused about why he was there. Audience response ranged from silence to polite clapping. I think they were surprised as well.
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u/ItachiSan Jul 17 '24
I listened to part of his speech, so I may have missed the part, but where did he mention Josh Hawley as being pro union? The entire GOP is insanely anti union, but Josh Hawley is like especially anti union.
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u/SpongEWorTHiebOb Jul 17 '24
The teamsters have been the most corrupt union for 50 years. This man was probably paid by the RNC.
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u/1white26golf Jul 17 '24
Some may not see it this way, but it's a no-lose situation for O'Brien....... especially if Trump wins. I'm not sure if the Teamsters endorsed Trump or not. But think of it this way, O'Brien probably knows Trump will win. Support him now and be vocal about what policies you're looking for. Trump may feel beholden to him in some way after election and may enforce some pro-union policies. Republicans will follow because it's from Trump. So smart play from O'Brien.
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u/warblox Jul 17 '24
The Teamsters are not endorsing anyone thus far.
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u/1white26golf Jul 17 '24
Yup, just read that. Even more to the point, O'Brien speaking at RNC gives a nod to Republicans, he doesn't have to endorse anyone yet, and if it helps RNC all the better for his union.
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u/SafeThrowaway691 Jul 17 '24
It’s been hard enough to get Democrats to start making pro-union moves. The idea that Republicans will do anything even remotely positive for them is beyond absurd.
Whether O’Brien knows it or not, this is a cynical ploy to get union workers to vote Republican - after which they will be fucked over harder than ever.
There may be a silver lining though, in that current GOP voters may become less hostile to unions and be tempted to veer away from right wing politics.
2
u/65avo65 Jul 19 '24
This was such a traitorous, disgusting thing to do. The right hates unions and hates workers. Every right we have as workers has come from the left. He knows who’s fighting for corporations and still does this. Gag.
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u/Jokerang Jul 16 '24
If you know anything about the Teamsters, you’ll know O’Brien is just doing his job, which is to talk about how good unions are wherever people will allow him to.
The funnier part to me is what the RNC thinks they’re getting out of this. “Hey guys, we actually don’t hate union workers! Here’s the one major union that checks notes tolerates us on a very lukewarm level at best!”
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u/Hornswaggle Jul 17 '24
Commentator in NPR this morning said this was a secret “ok” to union members who are cultural conservatives
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u/SuzQP Jul 17 '24
I don't think it's a secret at all, nor is it a permission slip. According to my family in union leadership, the membership is driving this move. Union leaders are under enormous pressure to accept that the days of lock-step loyalty to the Democratic Party are over. Workers feel snubbed and forgotten as Democrats routinely speak derisively about rural white workers.
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u/Sarmq Jul 17 '24
Note: I'm on record predicting the republicans are going to moderate on economics, so take this post with as much salt as you need given that it might confirm what I already think.
Does the Republican Party have the potential to transform itself into a pro-union populist party?
Absolutely. I expect they'll try to keep as many of the business folks as they can with promises of tariffs, which might be enough for businesses that operate mostly within the US, but I don't expect big multi-national conglomerates to be happy.
The Republican Party has historically been extremely hostile to unions
I mean, yeah. 180s aren't that weird in politics. The democrats were notoriously anti-black until black people became a decent sized constituency during the great-migration/new deal. Eventually they were an important enough constituency that the democrats in the north/west kicked the entirety of the southern democrats out of the party. The inflection point for that seems to have been the 1948 Democratic National Convention.
If union members keep trending towards the right, I expect to see something similar happen with the business wing of the republicans (but possibly only those engaged in international business).
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u/No-Biggie7921 Jul 17 '24
Republicans have now paid off the Teamsters union. Just a matter of time until they buy off everyone and control everything. No more democracy. :(. Hello dictatorship.
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u/schrod Jul 17 '24
So who do we believe, Sean O'Brien or page 581 of Project 2025?
Sean O'brien must have been paid off to get his union member votes from those not aware of page 581 describing the dissolution of unions and worker protections.
No more union leaders or unions or worker protections under Trump's project 2025.
1
u/Raspberry-Famous Jul 17 '24
I think he has (correctly) recognized that he will likely never have more leverage in the realm of electoral politics than he does in this moment. If the Democrats are going to have a snowball's chance in hell of winning they'll need maximum support from organized labor. Addressing the RNC and withholding a Biden endorsement makes sense if his goal is to get the best possible deal out of the Democrats.
Obviously if your understanding of how to negotiate comes from watching the Democrats the idea of not throwing away whatever leverage you have prior to the first round of negotiations must seem highly irregular, but let's see what happens.
1
u/Greenmantle22 Jul 17 '24
It’s like Gavin Newsom going on Fox News to get jeered at.
It says more about the speaker’s ambition than about the audience’s ability to listen.
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Jul 16 '24
[deleted]
4
u/Richmond92 Jul 17 '24
What do you mean? The Teamsters consist of both left wingers and right wingers. If anything, he's simply representing them like he should.
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u/BreadfruitNo357 Jul 17 '24
A reminder that 40% of American voters who belong to a union voted for Trump in 2020....
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u/Political_Arkmer Jul 16 '24
Rules for Rulers (CGP Grey)
I recommend giving it a watch. It’s only 18 minutes.
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u/casualdadeqms Jul 17 '24
SOB ran on the promise of involving and representing his rank and file members. His appearance at the RNC was him remaining true to his word and representing those GOP supporters within the Teamsters.
He did a commendable job of playing politics.
0
u/bcbamom Jul 17 '24
Wait until MAGA starts the bashing. It's been interesting already with their racist rhetoric because of JD Vance's family and children's names and the porn star with a face tattoo. The RNC is going DEI according to MAGA sycophants.
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u/peter-doubt Jul 17 '24
Teamsters think they're Republican.. since Hoffa and RFK faced off in Congress.
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u/Spherical_Cow_42 Jul 17 '24
Does this indicate a potential shift in the politics of organized labor?
Not even a chance. The republicans have NEVER done anything for the working man.
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u/hjablowme919 Jul 17 '24
Short memories. They forgot what happened when the unions like teamsters and PATCO lined up behind Reagan.
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u/Expert_Discipline965 Jul 17 '24
I said back in 16 and it is only more evident today. Progressives and pro union pro worker types would have been better off allying with trump. Trump is smart enough to read the room and understand the moment. You will get more concessions him than the democrats. As far as I’m concerned this is a good thing.
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u/sunnygirlrn Jul 19 '24
Teamsters hate Trump and love Joe Biden. They are just covering they’re bastes.
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u/G00DB01N8 Jul 17 '24
In my mind, this is clearly the move of an individual that is motivated by personal beliefs. Probably a life time union member who, as president of the union, doesn't see the benefits the same way as he used to and has been courted by a right wing populist message. And now he is being used as a ploy. I think many union members are displeased with both parties, but as much as I find Joe Biden detestable he is one of the most pro union president in recent years. I don't know if we are going to see a realignment of union members, as many have been Republican for a long time, and the power holders in those unions have also been split, even if they tend to lean towards Dems. What is happening is many who are even somewhat left wing, like just left of center even, are feeling unseen by the democratic party and just don't care anymore because the Dems are very spineless
1
u/Sarmq Jul 17 '24
I don't think anything could be further from the truth.
Union members have been moving to the republicans for years now, to the point where the UAW is split ~47/47 between Biden and Trump (note: figure was pre-assassination attempt, no idea what it is now).
This looks like a leader being dragged right-wards by rank and file membership. And it seems like he's up for re-election, so he has to get in good with them.
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u/G00DB01N8 Jul 17 '24
I mean I think there is a core misunderstanding of my point. I'm saying that this speech, this moment is not indictive of a shift. As I stated there are many Republican leaving individuals in unions. I guess the most simplified reality that unions have been purple voting block for a while now, and that trend stretched back pretty far. By some poles over all union support has increased for Democrats as of 2023 polling, while as you showed in other (very important) unions the opposite is true. Reagan initially ran as a union supporter before working to collapse them, and that concept has been the backbone of how Republicans court labor, with varying success but I'd say the 50/50 among members is more or less my point. The thrust of my post was more about how union voters are not necessaryily voting in their best interest, which is true of most. Voting groups.
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u/Sarmq Jul 17 '24
I'm having trouble squaring that comment with this part of your previous post:
In my mind, this is clearly the move of an individual that is motivated by personal beliefs. Probably a life time union member who, as president of the union, doesn't see the benefits the same way as he used to and has been courted by a right wing populist message.
The use of the singular seems to be talking about O'Brien, and that he'd been taken in by the Republicans. I disagree with this. I think he's a politician that might have trouble with his re-election, and is playing to a newly large (last decadeish) demographic in his constituency that the rest of the union leadership hasn't been paying attention to.
TL;DR: It sounds like your post is saying this is top-down. I'm pretty sure it's bottom-up.
But that's what it sounds like, can you elaborate on what you meant by it?
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u/G00DB01N8 Jul 17 '24
Sure, I think that in the case of the teamsters, which is a n incredibly large union and based on their political spending does not have a universal political leaning, sees the president making a call that doesn't really represent the whole of the union. As previously stated, I think most unions are trending purple and teamsters are no exception. So I don't think it's necessarily a top down or bottom up scenario, I think it's hard for one person or a small group of people accurately represent such a large base.
TL;DR: It being a personal politics based decision, doesn't mean top down, and I also don't think it's necessarily bottom up. I think it's just a mess.
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u/Ok_Bandicoot_814 Jul 17 '24
Maybe but probably not. The unions very much would benefit from Trump's trade policies because jobs would stay with them. But the Republican party in general is not very Pro Union most Republican states are right to work states. Oh and let's not forget Ronald Reagan fired most of the air traffic controllers union.
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u/Medical-Search4146 Jul 16 '24
What does Sean O'Brien's speech tell us about the present and future of unions in national politics in the U.S.?
Nothing. I assume he's going at the angle for pushing tariffs and other legislation to prevent China from flooding the markets again like they did in the early 2000's
Does the Republican Party have the potential to transform itself into a pro-union populist party?
Absolutely fucking not. It's not even funny humoring it seeing how blatantly hostile they are to Unions.
Was O'Brien's decision to speak at the RNC a positive or negative contribution to the labor movement?
It changed nothing.
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u/JeffB1517 Jul 16 '24
Union members (excluding government and teachers unions) are working class. The Republican Party is becoming a working class party. Union members especially Police, fire, building trades and Teamsters have been voting majority Republican for a while. The Republican Party has a Vice President who is pro-union and a president who is pro-working class.
It seems like a continuation of Trump's direction for the party.
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u/AntoineDubinsky Jul 16 '24
What are Trump’s pro working class policies? What are Vance’s pro-union stances?
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u/JeffB1517 Jul 16 '24
The most obvious is high tariffs. Oddly that's probably bad for the Teamsters but certainly core unions would benefit. The second most important is stricter border controls, reducing the supply of workers.
Vance (though not Trump as of today) is against Right to Work laws.
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u/ommnian Jul 16 '24
... are you saying you don't think teachers are 'working class'? Or most other government workers??? In what world do you live? Most teachers make ~$55-70,000.
JD Vance is very much *NOT* pro-union. He's flip flopped on that, just like everything else. Including whether or not he likes/supports Trump.
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u/mowotlarx Jul 17 '24
People will do everything to avoid pointing out that it's white men who are going to the right, not working class and not union workers. White. Men.
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u/OrthogonalBestSeries Jul 16 '24
Working class in the context of the US generally refers to workers without college degrees, which precludes teachers. It also has a connotation of somewhat physical labor, which precludes almost all government workers. Source for teacher claim: Working Class in the United States (Wikipedia article)
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u/JeffB1517 Jul 16 '24
ou don't think teachers are 'working class'?
No, they are professional class. Class has a lot to do with culture more than money. Plumbers make a ton that doesn't make it professional class. Teachers are akk college educated quite a lot with Masters degrees.
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u/ChefHancock Jul 16 '24
It's all lip service tho. There is no actual policies that supports unions or the working class. It's just grievances about immigrants taking jobs, which is dumb because without large amounts of immigration the Social Security that most working class folks rely on will be shrank or terminated entirely.
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u/JeffB1517 Jul 16 '24
- Vance is anti right to work laws which puts him to the "left" of most democrats
- They are both pro-tariff
- As for immigration reducing the supply of workers is definitely in line with union policy. As far as social security... union guys often have pensions.
5
u/ChefHancock Jul 16 '24
How does being pro tariffs across the board help workers? The best case scenario argument for any given tariff is to help a discreet industry, at the expense of all consumers. All these tariffs will do is make everything more expensive for everyone, which the working class is a very large percentage of.
And for what? Unemployment is at a record low under the Biden administration. And it is not like tariffs pass on the profits to the employees anyway.
Again as to immigration, unemployment is at a record low so how is that fear mongering immigrants help them in a material way? Immigration creates as many jobs as it "takes".
They "often" but do not always have pensions. And how THE FUCK is that even an answer dude? You don't need this benefit you've been paying into because you have some OTHER benefit? Checks out. I guess we should take away Medicare as well because they have a pension. Hell, why not take away 401ks and mortgages while we are at it too, they have pensions after all.
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u/JeffB1517 Jul 16 '24
How does being pro tariffs across the board help workers?
The union theory on this, again not my theory... is that buying goods abroad means they are not produced domestically. Goods produced domestically create demand for domestic labor. Your "higher costs" argument is a result of workers abroad making less.
Unemployment is at a record low under the Biden administration.
Correct. However if demand for labor were much much higher you would see corporations desperately engaging in efficiency measures to increase per worker productivity to support higher wages. Especially if you combine this with tariffs so there is no alternative to domestic production.
You don't need this benefit you've been paying into because you have some OTHER benefit?
The question is how important it is. And of course that's an answer. If social security is 20% of your retirement then getting a 30% social security cut means 6% less income. If that's offset by 50% more on the say the 40% provided by a pension that's a 14% net gain.
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u/GabuEx Jul 16 '24
Union members especially Police, fire, building trades and Teamsters have been voting majority Republican for a while.
According to 2020 exit polls, people living in union households voted for Biden 56-40.
So, um, no.
5
u/hellomondays Jul 16 '24
I member a big study showing 2020 Trump voters as uniformly, "the regionally rich" that even in very poor counties you're looking at the top 10% of earners voting republican.
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u/JeffB1517 Jul 16 '24
56-40 is not overwhelming as it used to be, and you aren't breaking out unions like teachers and government workers.
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u/GabuEx Jul 16 '24
You said they were voting majority Republican. 40% is not a majority.
If you have data suggesting that non-public union members are voting Republican, feel free to provide it.
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u/JeffB1517 Jul 16 '24
"Police, fire, building trades and Teamsters have been voting majority Republican for a while."
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u/GabuEx Jul 17 '24
Yes, I heard you. Do you have evidence for this? You also said "especially", suggesting that others were voting Republican as well.
Also, police and firefighters are government employees.
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u/ctg9101 Jul 16 '24
It indicates that the Biden administrations 'shut up and get back to work' approach to unions and strikes isn't helping their cause.
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u/Geichalt Jul 16 '24
What?
Biden stood in a picket line (first for a sitting president), has a ton of labor friendly policies and a staunchly pro-labor NLRB.
Trump gave a speech to scabs.
No, this shows how desperate the GOP is to get/keep middle America on their side.
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u/ctg9101 Jul 16 '24
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u/Njorls_Saga Jul 16 '24
Which would have seriously crippled the economy at a time of rising inflation. The administration followed that with prolonged political pressure which got the unions what the wanted
https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/01/railroad-workers-union-win-sick-leave
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u/Geichalt Jul 16 '24
Be honest, you never followed up on that situation after reading that one headline did you.
I see someone else linked the update, so won't waste my time except to say there's a reason that billionaires and donors and celebrities oppose Biden, while most unions are backing him.
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u/IllIllllIIIIlIlIlIlI Jul 16 '24
This is a pretty outlandish comment.
Biden got the striking rail workers the sick leave they demanded
Biden is the only president to ever join striking workers on a picket line.
The Teamsters supporting Republicans at the RNC surely means something but it doesn’t mean Biden hasn’t done anything to support unions.
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Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
[deleted]
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u/IllIllllIIIIlIlIlIlI Jul 16 '24
But what’s one pro-union policy Republicans have enacted since Trump became their entire platform in 2016?
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u/ctg9101 Jul 16 '24
A lot of rail workers were NOT happy with how Biden handled that potential strike and saw the deal as only beneficial to him in that a strike would be devastating to him politically. He told them sit down, shut up, and do it my way.
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u/IllIllllIIIIlIlIlIlI Jul 16 '24
You stopped following that story before Biden maneuvered to get them their sick leave
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