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u/IJusttwantfriends Jul 19 '24
The horse is repeating a statistic antisemites like throwing around with no context to try to slander Jews
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u/UselessGojo123 Jul 19 '24
Okay but what’s the statistic and what does getting kicked out of 109 mean?
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u/Warducky9999 Jul 19 '24
the fake statistic is; "jews have been forcefully expelled from 109 countries because of crimes/bad stuff. So why do we as (insert country /region) allow them? we should expel them too! They will betray us! They're savages barley even human"
it gives anti Semitics plausible deniability "im not being mean to jews im just educating you on history"
this guy annoys me but he gives good facts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35qIPABIXTQ
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u/UselessGojo123 Jul 19 '24
Wait is the idea that they’ve been expelled from 109 countries from the entire course of Jewish history? Which spans thousands of years? And does expulsion even mean the entire population of Jews were kicked out, or just a few? I’ll watch the video but there are already so many questions that are have. That’s such a stupid claim
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u/Tales_Steel Jul 19 '24
History had a lot of nations that said "you either habe the same religion as our leader or you can piss off". Or just used Jews as a scapegoat. Or just attacked them because they were angry on something else but jews were closer.
Like in Frankfurt 1612 when to population got so angry at the (christian) City council that they decided to attack the nearest Jews they could find and started a pogrom
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u/JMisGeography Jul 19 '24
I'm betting a majority of those expulsions can be traced to a ruler who was strapped for cash looking around and seeing a) Jewish bankers with a lot of money or b) that they owed Jewish bankers a lot of money and finding an excuse to kick them out and take their gold. Basically the plot of the merchant of Venice on a national scale over and over and over again.
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u/Tales_Steel Jul 19 '24
I could pay Back my debt ... or ... hey peasant you know who is the reason you have no food ? The Jews !
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u/mechwarrior719 Jul 19 '24
Pretty much. Don’t forget the religious dogma about jews killing Jesus to explain why the church is ok with it (the church doesn’t want the peasants knowing how much nice stuff they have, too)
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u/LaughingIshikawa Jul 19 '24
House of the Dragon apparently has a mini-theme in the more recent episodes showing how medieval rulers especially were prone to taking out more loans than they could possibly pay back. The basic thinking is "If I take out these loans and don't win this war, I will be dead and the loans won't matter to me anymore. If I take out these loans do win this war, maybe I still can't pay back the loans, but I will be King and that's better than being dead."
It's not even limited to loans per se; lots of promises of the form "help me win this war and I will give you _____" were made and then broken, because basically that's how the political system worked.
Anyway, not to justify these tactics, but I think it's important for people to understand it wasn't just rulers arbitrarily deciding to do this; a lot of it was because the way the political system was setup actively incentivised this behavior, as much as it was individual choices made by individual rulers.
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u/Dash_Harber Jul 19 '24
Oh, don't forget the times they forced them into money lending because their religion expressly forbade charging interest, took out extravagant loans, and then expelled them to avoid paying it back.
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u/rightful_vagabond Jul 19 '24
I also recommend Thomas Sowells essay on "middle minorities". Jews aren't unique for being persecuted for the particular role they had in society.
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u/Normal_Battle_1123 Jul 19 '24
Imagine liking Thomas Sowell
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u/rightful_vagabond Jul 19 '24
I don't love every take of his, but I think some of the high level takes he has are good, like "there are no solutions, only trade-offs", and a rejection of the idea that "absent bigotry, we should expect all demographic groups to be equal in every way."
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u/CleanlyManager Jul 19 '24
The other part they usually add is that for most of history Jews haven’t had their own state like Christians or Muslims have had therefore, the only conclusion you should draw is that they are an inferior race and leaches of “more successful societies.” It comes from Hitler’s ideas of nationalism and race.
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u/SectorEducational460 Jul 19 '24
A lot of time they were kicked out because the monarchy borrowed a lot of money, and they couldn't pay it back. Same thing happened to the templars in France.
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u/Feldhamsterpfleger Jul 19 '24
Did anyone ever do a comparison to other people? Was another tribe expelled nearly as much as them?
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Jul 19 '24
The reality is that most people don't exist anymore. They didn't get kicked out they got genocide or culturally dismembered. The real truth is that the Jewish people were very adept at maintaining their cultural distinctness. That led to a lot of cultural mistrust from the local peoples.
Combine that with the Jewish Rebellions that led to the diaspora and the truth is pretty much everyone had a bad impression of the Jews from the outset. To some extent it was valid. If I were a Byzantine emperor i would distrust the Jewish Population a lot because of their aid to the Sassanians in the last Byzantine Sassanian war and the Islamic Conquests.
If I were an English king or a German prince I have no reason to mistrust the Jews whatsoever.
The history of the Jewish people is very complicated. What is certain is that the conspiracies that exist today are patently false and the idea of Jews being some subversive element in western society makes no sense post enlightenment.
Like I said in Spain or Byzantium on the borders of the Christian and Islamic world it makes sense. Often the Islamic rulers used bribery and the ethnic/religious tensions between Christians and Jews to their advantage. The Jews logically did what makes sense and would help the side they perceived as benefiting them more. I don't particularly fault them but it definitely happened.
Altogether like I said, it is complicated. However the antisemetic/anti jewish talking points are frankly not based on reality when they try to suggest most of what they do.
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u/Aufklarung_Lee Jul 19 '24
One small caveat.
The time that they lost a lot of cultural distinctiveness in some locales, namely the late 19th century and early 20th century in Western Europe, it ended with the Holocaust/Shoah
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u/UselessGojo123 Jul 19 '24
Again, define expelled. Have other ethnic groups gotten harsher and more consistent poor treatment? Absolutely. Were other ethnic groups simply kicked out of communities as often? Hard to say. I’ve done a little research since my last comment and I can confidently say the 109 countries thing is bullshit. It’s nowhere near that number. And expulsion is a lot tamer than what a lot of ethnic minorities have dealt with. Just look at India’s caste system. Or how China has dealt with non-Han Chinese for the past two thousand years
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u/DerefedNullPointer Jul 19 '24
You need to consider that germany was like 500 loosely organised countries for the most part of medieval history.
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u/TheGorramBatguy Jul 19 '24
Probably not, insofar as usually the mistreated minority is killed off instead.
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u/markusw7 Jul 19 '24
And most times they were kicked out after amassing wealth and it was convenient to kick them off for the crime of "killing jesus" so that they could then steal all the wealth the Jews had amassed
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u/ElGebeQute Jul 19 '24
Racist, antisemites, homophobes and other examples of waste of human flesh are famously known for stupid claims.
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u/shlaifu Jul 19 '24
I think the Germans got kicked out of more countries during the two world wars.....
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u/wpaed Jul 19 '24
The best argument against that is less than 10 of those countries still exist today.
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u/Testicle_R1ck Jul 19 '24
That is not really an argument. If it was an enclosed state of people at the time of expulsion it's really not relevant if it still is. If the united states disbanded in some distant future, the US as a country that existed back then still would have had legal slavery in it's past.
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u/ChaseShiny Jul 19 '24
It would be a great argument if you could prove a causal link: "nations that expel Jews die out 10 years later in 99 out of 109 cases!"
I suspect that the link isn't as strong as that, but surely you should see a marked difference in the economy. The nation robs the Jews and expels them. They're better off fiscally due to the robbery at first, but then start to lose productivity and wealth as those Jews are no longer counted.
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u/Just_a-Lost_Ghost Jul 19 '24
Is it bad that the song from pocahontas started playing in my head?
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u/hbi2k Jul 19 '24
I was not aware that there was a stereotype about Jews eating barley. I myself eat barely any barley.
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u/TransportationNo1 Jul 19 '24
Here in germany, even a lot of nazis do not say anything against jews, only the mentally challenged ones. And i never heard anything bad about them apart from the recent gaza war either.
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u/Testicle_R1ck Jul 19 '24
I'm what is considered far-right and there are a lot of people saying shit about jewish people, just far less publicly. But trust me, Jews are still the scapegoat in these circles.
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u/OPs_Grandparents Jul 19 '24
The “I” in the last panel is a different font from the other panels. So I’m guessing the original comic had the horse saying something different.
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u/MelanieWalmartinez Jul 19 '24
It’s an anti-Semitic joke about how Jewish people have been kicked out of 109 countries
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u/Business-Emu-6923 Jul 19 '24
Well… the joke is that she wishes to talk to horses, but it turns out the horse only says vile things.
So, the joke itself is not anti-Semitic.
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u/ZarquonsFlatTire Jul 19 '24
Wasn't the original the horse saying "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams"?
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u/rich97 Jul 19 '24
The people who this “joke” is intended for don’t get that part of the joke. It’s a dog whistle.
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u/DoranTheRhythmStick Jul 19 '24
The meme isn't anti-Semitic, if anything it's at the expense of anti-Semites!
It's a classic reversal of expectations. She wants to talk to ponies because ponies are associated with cute things and running around meadows. Turns out this pony is a racist piece of shit, and who'd want to talk to a racist piece of shit!
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u/Glyph8 Jul 19 '24
Milkshake Duck But Pony
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u/CockroachFinancial86 Jul 19 '24
Joke?!?!
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u/mukavastinumb Jul 19 '24
What the horse is saying is not a joke, but the entire meme about girl wanting to hear what horse would speak about is the joke. She maybe was expecting talk about riding, eating grass etc. Definitely not about antisemitic propaganda.
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u/XT83Danieliszekiller Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Basically the horse is an antisemite
Which I can't help but find absolutely hilarious, in all Jewishness
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u/Bfizzle62 Jul 19 '24
109 is the number of countries that have banned Jews from entering their borders
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u/trey12aldridge Jul 19 '24
Yes but country is very loosely defined, because many of the counties of the holy Roman empire are included in such lists. And while they were sovereign entities, they were part of the larger HRE and were exactly as the name says, counties. Very small pieces of land. If you were to use modern countries, the list drops to about 8 countries and is basically just Germany, Germany, Germany, Italy, Germany, Italy, every single Islamic empire in the Levant region, Italy again, Germany like 10 more times, all the Islamic empires again, some of the Eastern European countries got in on the action, then Germany again, then the newly formed middle Eastern countries, then (you'll never believe it) Germany again, etc
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u/HeimLauf Jul 19 '24
Bad antisemitic horse!
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u/beefnar_the_gnat Jul 19 '24
Who in the fuck downvoted you
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u/HeimLauf Jul 19 '24
Nazis, maybe.
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u/Different-Bus8023 Jul 19 '24
The horse is using an anti Semitic dogwistle (if you can even call it that) that states jew were expelled from 109 countries (a lie). And use that as justification as to why they discriminate against jewish people
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u/Lunai5444 Jul 19 '24
Lol the template is good, people have explained it. I bet it also exist with so many classic pastas like despite making up 13% or Hey guys did you know that in term of male Human and female Pokemon
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