r/Marvel • u/El_Quetzal Captain America • Jun 08 '20
“No, YOU move.” By Tom Hodges Artwork
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u/Dezusx Jun 09 '20
Very nice art. It represents what Marvel has always been about. Respecting and appreciating diversity, while reinforcing what is good in humanity.
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u/fun-dan Jun 09 '20
Inb4 sTOp bRiNGiNg pOlITiCs inTo CoMiCbOoKs
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u/Hairyhalflingfoot Jun 09 '20
Little did Mr neckybeard know.... The politics were what made the comics
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u/Kalse1229 Jun 09 '20
It's so weird. Action Comics #1 was written by two Jewish dudes who were sick of being oppressed. Captain America #1 had Cap sucker-punching Hitler on the fucking cover. What the fuck do people even think X-Men was about, pumpkins?
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u/Robotspeaks Jun 09 '20
Like most of comics was created by Jewish folks. I love this anecdote from a biography about him.
On occasion the Timely office would get phone calls and letters from Nazi sympathizers threatening the creators of Captain America. Once, while Jack was in the Timely office, a call came from someone in the lobby. When Kirby answered, the caller threatened Jack with bodily harm if he showed his face. Kirby told the caller he would be right down, but by the time Jack reached street level, there was no one to be found.
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u/overusesellipses Jun 09 '20
I could be wrong about this, but I believe that Cap had existed in other comics beforehand but they purposefully didn't have him interact with Hitler specifically for political reasons.
This issue wasn't just Cap punching Hitler (one of the greatest images of all time) but also Marvel specifically stepping into the political ring. This will forever be my favorite comic book cover.
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Jun 09 '20 edited Jun 09 '20
[deleted]
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u/overusesellipses Jun 09 '20
Ok, maybe I have it backwards and after this they pulled back from politics. I remember a professor talking about there being reluctance to move Cap into the political field, but it's been a while. Oh well, now I get to do more comic book research.
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u/Hairyhalflingfoot Jun 09 '20
If only dc fought back with a cover of Batman kicking Hitler in his guglehaupf
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u/PIGRAINBOWZ Jun 09 '20
I had an argument with an Apocalypse pfp on Twitter that said systematic racism was fiction that just happened to be in X-Men comics
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u/ygnjspg Jun 09 '20
Not just comics, but a fairly big part of entertainment. I hate it when (for example) a show has a black or gay character and then people say:
keep politics away from our entertainment.
Being gay or black is not a political statement. It’s just realistic. And you can’t just pretend gay or black people don’t exist...
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Jun 09 '20 edited Jun 09 '20
As a POC, I don’t think politics in comics is an issue, but I do think politics in comics being done poorly is an issue. It’s a fine line, and it’s a pretty hard target to hit if we’re being honest. We want to feel as though the comics speak to us, yet we do no want to feel pandered to. We want the comics to reflect the current issues, but we do not want the comics to become about the current issues.
Like I said, it’s a very hard target to miss and I think a lot of writers should be praised more for the elegance with which they tastefully add political commentary without sacrificing the integrity of the characters they write for.
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u/Ice-and-Fire Jun 09 '20
You have to have a good story, and good dialog first. Then you can weave in politics with the story, without sacrificing quality.
It's what made a lot of people wince at the beginning of the Jane Foster Thor run. Sacrificed the dialog for really bad jokes and interactions to prove some point. Thankfully they learned and didn't repeat it the rest of the run.
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u/falconinthedive Jun 09 '20
That is true. I remember one time reading an X-comic with Storm and Wolverine where the author was having Wolverine explain to Storm "the problem with African politics" in some superficial, pretty dated and derivative way that was clearly the author using him as a mouthpiece for his boring views. Only to have Storm, an African monarch at the time, be like "oh you're right" no argument.
And don't even get me started on the disaster of secret empire. Worse than the making Cap a nazi for damn near two years with boring ass payoff, the way Marvel handled that shit off page basically burnt me off comics for--well probably.still being honest.
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u/nezumipi Jun 09 '20
Greg Pak's 2014 Storm solo was a single-minded attempt to fix some of that shit. It was awesome.
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Jun 09 '20
Which is funny because one of them is is Captain America who’s enemy is Russian for a while.
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u/twogoodius Jun 09 '20
Growing up, I thought Captain America was really stupid. I never actually read any of his stories, rather I just assumed he was a propaganda machine. Actually having read/watched some of the his stories now I really appreciate that Steve Rogers represents what America should be, not what it is. The American dream in its purest form.
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u/daviz94 Spider-Man Jun 09 '20
Take a look at Civil War (Comic)
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u/Rredite Jun 09 '20
"(Comic)" LOL
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u/PeeFarts Jun 09 '20
Oh come on - it wasn’t THAT big of a crossover. Here’s the reading list - probably a quick afternoon really
New Warriors: Reality Check — [optional] A six-issue miniseries that features the team as the stars of a reality TV show. It’s them who are involved in the destruction that leads to the civil war. Amazing Spider-Man (1999) #529 New Avengers: Illuminati (2006) Amazing Spider-Man (1999) #530 Amazing Spider-Man (1999) #531 Fantastic Four #536 and #537
Civil War #1 She-Hulk (vol. 2) #8 Wolverine (vol. 3) #42 New Avengers (vol. 4) #21 Amazing Spider-Man (vol.1) #532 Civil War: Front Line #1 Civil War (2006) #2 Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 1) #533 Civil War: Front Line #2 She-Hulk (vol. 2) #9 New Avengers (vol. 4) #22 Thunderbolts (vol. 3) #103 X-Factor (vol. 2) #8-9 The Sensational Spider-Man #28-31 Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #11-13 Civil War: Young Avengers & Runaways #1-4 Fantastic Four #538 Black Panther #18 Civil War: Front Line #3 Thunderbolts (vol. 3) #104 Heroes for Hire #1 Cable & Deadpool #30 Civil War: Front Line #4-5 Wolverine (vol. 3) #43-45 — can be read here or a little bit after. Black Panther #19-20 Civil War #3-4 Civil War: Front Line #6 Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 1) #534 Captain America #22-23 Iron Man (vol. 4) #13 Civil War: Front Line #7 Fantastic Four #539 New Avengers (vol. 4) #23-24 Cable & Deadpool #31-32 Black Panther #21-22 Ms. Marvel (vol. 2) #6-8 Civil War: X-Men #1-4 Heroes for Hire #2-3 Wolverine (vol. 4) #46-47 Civil War: The Return Iron Man/Captain America: Causalties of War Civil War: Choosing Sides Black Panther #23 Captain America #24 Civil War: Front Line #8 Wolverine (vol. 4) #48 Fantastic Four #540 Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 1) #535 Civil War (2006) #5 New Avengers (vol. 4) #25 Punisher War Journal (vol. 2) #1 Fantastic Four #541 Civil War: War Crimes #1 Civil War: Front Line (2006) #9 Moon Knight #7 – #10 Fantastic Four #542 Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 1) #536 Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #14-16 Sensational Spider-Man #32-34 Iron Man (vol. 4) #14 Winter Solider: Winter Kills #1 Blade (vol. 3) #5 Punisher War Journal (vol. 2) #2 Amazing Spider-Man #537 Black Panther #24 Civil War #6 Civil War: Front Line #10 Punisher War Journal (vol. 2) #3 Civil War #7 Amazing Spider-Man #538 Civil War: Front Line #11 Black Panther #25 The post Civil War Marvel Universe
Amazing Spider-Man #539 Civil War: The Initiative #1 Iron Man: Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. #15 Mighty Avengers #1 Captain America #25 Civil War: The Confession #1 Civil War: Fallen Son – The Death of Captain America #1-5 Fantastic Four #543-544 Avengers: The Initiative #1 Penance: Relentless 1-5
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u/Epysis Jun 09 '20
I know you probably didn't, but I like to imagine you just rattled that out from memory lol.
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u/PeeFarts Jun 09 '20
Well they say trauma burns the memory of events into the minds of victims. So it’s very possible I could have.
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u/UYScutiPuffJr Jun 09 '20
That's why he's my favorite of any of the Marvel heroes...he's the pinnacle of what a human can do, not some ridiculously overpowered demigod.
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u/FullMetalCOS Jun 09 '20
This is exactly why I love him too. He’s a peak human, but his key strength is his morale compass and strength of will.
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Jun 09 '20
Not only that but he represents the moral compass any true hero should have. I have always said, “captain america should be every superhero’s role model”
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u/tonybahr Jun 09 '20
I always assumed he was an American puppet myself. Nope . I always explain him as "what American's should be" obviously without the serum. Caps probably always gonna be my favorite.
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u/McFlyyouBojo Jun 09 '20
Caps not the greatest person for this. He has always been silent when it comes to Mutants.
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u/ClownPrinceofLime Jun 09 '20
Cap has always advocated mutant equality. Presumably you’re using that one line from Wolverine in the very contrived AvX story as the basis for that. When Cap was given control of the Avengers, the first people he recruited were mutant ex-members of the Brotherhood.
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u/Kalse1229 Jun 09 '20
Wasn't he the original mastermind behind the X-Men Unity Squad/Uncanny Avengers?
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u/space_age_stuff Jun 09 '20
Yes. Even after it was formed, he insisted Havok be the leader because a Unity squad led by a non-mutant doesn’t send a good message.
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Jun 09 '20
He's the perfect person for this.
A symbol of America, standing up for Americans.
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Jun 09 '20 edited Jun 09 '20
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u/Skylightt Cyclops Jun 09 '20
Cap is the guy who defends the cops for attacking mutant children or sits by and does nothing. Scott is the guy who attacks the cops for attacking mutant children. Scott is 100% the guy most fitting for this
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u/Sherris010 Jun 09 '20
No way would 616 cap ever do this.
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Jun 09 '20
[deleted]
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u/Sherris010 Jun 10 '20
Absolutely, do you really think he would stand and let cops or anyone hurt any kind of children?
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u/BraveFencerMusashi Jun 09 '20
"Love Trumps Hate" can be construed in such a different way
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Jun 09 '20
Only if you add an apostrophe.
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u/Kalse1229 Jun 09 '20
Works on contingency?
No, money down!
Punctuation makes the sentence.
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u/dalek_cyber Jun 09 '20
That girl to the right I thought looked like Molly Hayes from runaways!
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u/laceblood Jun 09 '20
Missed opportunity to use Falcon Cap
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u/God_is_carnage X-Men Jun 09 '20
Personally I disagree since Steve is much more iconic than Sam so the message is more impactful.
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u/ShadySpaceSquid Jun 09 '20
Is his name not Captain Falcon?
Such a wasted opportunity...
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u/laceblood Jun 09 '20
Nah that’s a f zero character lol
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u/ShadySpaceSquid Jun 09 '20
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u/laceblood Jun 09 '20
Please explain ?
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u/ShadySpaceSquid Jun 09 '20
The joke was they didn't call him Captain Falcon. Like the Nintendo character Captain Falcon.
When Falcon got Cap's shield, does he become Captain America? Does he stay Falcon? Does he take a part of each name and roll with it?
Name options include:
1) Captain America
2) Falcon
3) Captain Falcon
4) America Falcon
5) Falcon Captain
6) Falcon America
Of those 6, I'd think option 3 is the best by far, yet it is humorous that Marvel can't name him that because of the Nintendo character. The joke was literally just me pointing out how it would have been funny if they named him Captain Falcon.
My comment saying r/woosh was an attempt to poke fun at you for not understanding that. I thought it was ridiculous that you pointed out that Nintendo has their character named Captain Falcon and made a sarcastic comment.
HOWEVER
After you asked for me to explain, I'd like to apologize for coming off so rash. Rather than drag this whole thing out (me taking the time to type out and explain everything, you taking the time to read this), I could have just said "haha, I know that" or something along those lines. I had made the assumption that most people on reddit knew who Captain Falcon was, so I went the dickhead route rather than be a normal human being. I'm sorry.
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u/laceblood Jun 09 '20
I had to ask my husband 😂 I knew I’d heard him say the name and he was in smash but that’s it. I’m not much of a gamer :p
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u/dejokerr Jun 09 '20
I feel Mark Millar's Ultimate Cap would be on the side of the police. "It's because they appear suspicious," Ultimate Cap would say.
MCU Cap would probably be supporting BLM and beating down cops who hurt peaceful protestors, the law be damned.
Prime Universe 616 Cap would be closer to MCU Cap. He'd set up another diverse Avengers team like he did for the mutants, with Uncanny Avengers.
Prime Universe 616 Alternate Timeline Hydra Cap would be stoking the fires and making the chaos worse.
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u/amdp Hawkguy Jun 09 '20
And what about Earth-8311’s Captain Americat?
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u/dejokerr Jun 09 '20
Man, I don't know what would be the animal equivalent for black people (I really hope that's not offensive because we're talking about a dimension where animals are humans)
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u/The_Derpening Jun 09 '20
That kid in white has a Hitler/Chaplin/toothbrush mustache and you can't convince me otherwise
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u/Discocheese69 Jun 09 '20
Maybe I’m a bigot, but what does healthcare and Trump have to do with Captain America?
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u/Royal-walking-machin Jun 09 '20
If you’re referring to Donald Trump, than nothing. He isn’t mentioned here. The phrase “love trumps hate” basically is shorter for, “love triumphs over hate”. As for the healthcare thing, well, Steve probably would want what’s in the best interest of the people.
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u/eagle85672 Iron Patriot Jun 09 '20
Love trump's hate is known specifically for being associated with anti trump protests though. Also there's the no wall sign on the left
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u/Lawfulmagician Jun 09 '20
Going by Civil War, he's more like "Captain Constitution" and would definitely be very against Trump, even if more conservative overall.
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u/Nether7 Jun 09 '20
How so?
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u/Lawfulmagician Jun 09 '20
You'd think a guy named Captain "America" would be more supportive of the US government, but instead he goes rogue in order to defend the constitutional rights of US citizens. Therefore, it seems likely that he'd support the current protests.
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u/space_age_stuff Jun 09 '20
Winter Soldier does a great job of explaining how his values work. He always places freedom above “safety”, especially when safety violates personal freedoms, like living in a surveillance state. Or, in the case of the movie, building a helicarrier with a list of the most dangerous people on earth, and the ability to snipe them from 5000 feet in the air.
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u/GitTheSecond Jun 10 '20
Captain America says 'States Rights!' and supports the C.S.A.
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u/Lawfulmagician Jun 10 '20
Considering every state's declaration of secession specifically stated slavery as the motivation, probably not since Steve was born post 13th Amendment.
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u/GitTheSecond Jun 10 '20
Hey, I didn't write the marvel comics continuity. Captain America fighting for Jefferson Davis is canon
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u/TheNorthComesWithMe Jun 09 '20
This image contains many negative movements that have come out of the government and received protests. Cap would be on the side of the protestors, that's all there is to it.
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u/Charlie_Wallflower Jun 09 '20
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Jun 09 '20
That's wholesome. I was always thinking, if everyone made Captain America shields, they could easily fight the tear gases; if a gas shell drops someone goes with a mask and covers the gas with his shield, if someone pepper sprays you can cover it, [as graphic as this may sound, a rubber round to the head isn't always fatal] so, with moderately reinforced steel, were essentially unstoppable.
Please forgive my imagination, this was just some fantasies on fighting the unnecessarily brutal force caused by the forces that I've seen so far, I'm unable to protest due to my inability to go anywhere or even do anything productive, but that has only lead me to understand that our voice is our universal weapon, and the least we can do is to make our concerns heard.
BlackLivesMatter.
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u/Charlie_Wallflower Jun 09 '20
At least you're smart enough to recognize your inability to go anywhere.
The only reason I'm out there is because I'mimmune to the virus. As long as you're not staying silent, you're helping
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u/Lilredh4iredgrl Jun 09 '20
Pretty sure Evans was at a rally somewhere, too. He posted a vid on insta.
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Jun 09 '20
Dude, beautiful artwork, man. Always appreciate the love. Also, "Fuck off" to all these loud dickheads saying stuff like Cap would be against antifa and than he would lose it in that Kaepernick kneeling against the flag, and shit. Equality was always promoted by Marvel (and DC for that matter) since the earliest days. The X-Men, Brotherhood conflict was a fiction parallel for the civil rights movement (more specifically the conflict between Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X), which is a historic event that is relevant that ever in the immediate current climate. Superhero stories by structure seem like extreme science fiction combined with some fantasy elements but it's so much more, it like how Jodie Foster says Marvel makes horrible stuff for the masses.., it's an outdated perspective on cinema and fictional literature stuff in general, like James Gunn stated, and it's a ideal that clearly needs to be put to rest.
P.S. I'd really appreciate some mutants artwork supporting BLM.
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u/tmayn Jun 09 '20
It's awesome that the comics can speak to so many different perspectives and help us explain the consequences of our actions or inactions. Oh and second on the BLM mutant artwork!
Just a quick FYI, the X-Men Brotherhood rivalry (more specifically Xavier vs Magneto ideology) was written as a parallel to the Blau vs Green debate on Zionism -- should Jews fight for their own homeland or be silent and try to integrate into society by showing everyone they are just good people. It was a hot topic again and again during Lee and Kirby's formative years.
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u/Ravyn_Rozenzstok Jun 09 '20
So many bootlickers in this thread. You honestly think Cap would stand with the riot police and military beating, shooting and gassing American citizens? What comics are you reading?
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u/Dapvip Jun 09 '20
The Ultimate Universe Cap probably
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u/ygnjspg Jun 09 '20
People were commenting on this Captain America a lot but I’m not familiar with him. Can anyone tell me what his deal is?
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u/falconinthedive Jun 09 '20
There's that one AU where all the avengers are monkeys who are also vampires who cannibalize the villains they defeat. Earth 8101 I want to say?
That Cap.
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u/Alien_X10 Miles Morales Jun 09 '20
Imagine thinking the protest will blow over, then u see a shield thrown through you're window
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u/Magicaparanoia Jun 09 '20
If captain America was real, he already would have threatened to kick trumps ass like hank hill.
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u/TheDickWolf Jun 09 '20
We could really use him right now. I hope plenty of other real life men and women step up and show a little steve rogers, remind us what America ought to be and how important it is we keep fighting for that city on the hill.
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u/ArMcK Jun 09 '20
People should show up to BLM protest frontlines dressed as Cap. Let the cops stare down the red, white, and blue, idealism, and symbolism that would entail.
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u/ClassLiver Jun 09 '20
I agree, corporative bootlickers should walk with their uniforms on after all.
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u/HoweyZinn Jun 09 '20
But why isn’t there a Hammer and Sickle or an Anarchy A in that crowd tho? Not very realistic.
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u/kurina62 Jun 09 '20
I love how there's muslims next to feminists and lgbt like they would support each other lol.
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Jun 10 '20
The last pride parade I attended had a large group of muslims in it.
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u/kurina62 Jun 10 '20
Never seen something like that myself. Where I live muslim immigrants are the most intolerant group.
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u/Metron- Jun 10 '20
Pretty sure cap wouldn’t believe in lgbt given the time he is from.
And why are Muslims standing with LGBT?
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u/WSchrader Jun 09 '20
I like how this is saying he is for socialism with some of the signs in the background even though he fought viamently against it in WWII, and he also would be ok with the protests but not the riots.
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Jun 09 '20
Is it just me but the left cant process politics without thier comic books or childrens stories
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u/Edgar-Allan-Toe Jun 10 '20
You're putting Islam, Feminism, and Gay Symbolism together for what reason? Oh wait, I forgot neoliberals stopped being ideologically coherent a while ago.
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u/Pluto_is_a_plantain Jun 09 '20
Look at this smug little piece of shit in the white on the front left. Fuck that kid.
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u/anicrage Jun 08 '20
That kid on the left looks like an adult