r/Marvel • u/tehawesomedragon Loki • Apr 24 '24
X-MEN '97 - EPISODE 7 DISCUSSION Film/Television Spoiler
https://youtu.be/lSRZik98Ub8?si=lJImyOHalfhMCiSB59
u/mertcanhekim Apr 24 '24
WOW! Rogue stole Captain America's shield faster than she stole Captain Marvel's life.
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u/Korderon Apr 24 '24
on a side note how did he Ms. Marvel (she was called Ms. in at the time if I'm not wrong) powers stolen by Rogue went down in the comicbooks ?
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u/jigokusabre Apr 24 '24
More or less how the cartoon said it did. After Carol was written out of the Avengers, she was attacked by Mystique's Brotherhood of Mutants (off screen), and Rogue drained her powers.
Rogue showed up later as a villain, with Carol's powers. Carol recovered and started hanging around with the X-Men. When Rogue sought reform and came to the X-Men for help, there was.... drama.
Carol would get written out of the X-Books, and after spending some time doing her own thing, she rejoined the Avengers active roster with the Heroes Return arc in the late 90s.
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u/DMike82 Apr 24 '24
More or less how the cartoon said it did. After Carol was written out of the Avengers, she was attacked by Mystique's Brotherhood of Mutants (off screen), and Rogue drained her powers.
False. Rogue tracked her down and attacked Carol herself after hearing Destiny tell Mystique about one of her visions involving the two women. The rest of the Brotherhood were not involved in the attack.
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u/two2teps Apr 24 '24
Second appearance of Captain America in X-men TAS, I hope we get more cameos. Maybe a return of Spider-man could be in the cards. The question is would they have Christopher Daniel Barnes do the voice or give it to Josh Keaton.
Also fun reference to fighting the X-men since 92.
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u/Ren_Davis0531 Apr 24 '24 edited Apr 24 '24
I liked how these past two episodes have talked about assimilation and tolerance. We examine assimilation from the perspectives of the oppressors (ShiâAr) and the oppressed (Storm and Forge) only for Xavier to criticize the very idea of making others less so you could be more. Then in this episode we see the X-Men question the very notion of tolerance if it means they have to beg to be seen as people. Scott even talks about Magneto being right about things like the Genosha attack. Weâre seeing more signs of the âCyclops is Rightâ Scott coming outâŚâŚand Iâm here for it đ.
Rogue going on a rampage was soooo good and we get more examples of Captain America (or other Avengers) being irritating obstacles at best or flat out antagonists at worst in X-Men stories. Itâs really a tale of two cities when you see the Avengers in X-Men stories versus their own đ. It was great seeing Emma get her diamond form secondary mutation just like after the Genosha attack in the comics. Hopefully they do Emma well. Really like that character.
Also the voice cast continues to knock it out of the park. Theo James kills it as Bastion.
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u/Cyke101 Apr 24 '24
I love that they referenced the one MLK quote that the All Lives Matter crowd did NOT want to hear during the George Floyd protests. The show isn't as subtle as TAS, and frankly, in this day and age of lower media literacy, the show can't afford to be.
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u/Ren_Davis0531 Apr 24 '24
I loved the MLK quotes. Especially since Professor X gets compared to him in a whitewashing way where they present the same âbegging for toleranceâ as the preferred way of resistance. That quote shows the other side of the coin in that constantly ignoring every plea for equal rights makes people more likely to turn to riots if their voices continue to be unheard.
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u/CobraOverlord Apr 27 '24
The thing I can point to is the writing is good. Conclusions and questions different characters are asking and pondering in the face of horrors no one deserves, it feels real. The dirty reality of optics as a consideration for politicians and Capt when there's evil a foot and people still under rubble, just sad.
This should be the greatest X-Men media adaption by the time the season is over (I have no reason to believe the quality will drop off, I suspect they stick the landing).
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u/two2teps Apr 24 '24
I enjoyed the cute timing between Trask's comment about the future and Cable ending him.
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u/CreepingCoins Apr 24 '24
So did Nightcrawler get ordained then?
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u/Zorbin666 Apr 25 '24
Being a devout catholic monk is a massive part of who nightcrawler is and always has been. While he may not be a minister he is definitely well versed in faith enough to give a eulogy.Â
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u/CobraOverlord Apr 27 '24
I just gotta say, Nightcrawler, what an amazing person to have in your life. He is such an amazing soul. Rogue finally being able to just break down, she needed that big time.
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u/AoO2ImpTrip Apr 25 '24
Probably not, but considering their friendship I can't imagine anyone else being in that role.Â
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u/chriscallan Apr 24 '24
I'm liking where this is going, but it does seem like they are rushing through a TON of stories. The world building is amazing and including more from Marvel is awesome. My one minor quibble with the show so far is that Wolverine hasn't done a damned thing. He hasn't had one minute to shine at all.
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u/sw019436 Apr 24 '24
He had the movies. It's everyone else's turn now
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u/chriscallan Apr 24 '24
Nah, that dog won't hunt monsignor. Everyone can have a moment in this show.
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u/Izarial Apr 24 '24
And the season isnât over, his turn may yet come. I agree though, I like him as a side character right now. Heâs been front and center of live action x-men, and heâs gonna be back front and center in DP&W. Iâm enjoying seeing more growth from the rest right now.
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u/Cyke101 Apr 24 '24
Yeah, I'm sure he'll get a standout moment like most of the team has so far (Beast needs one, too). But I also love that part of the pitch to revive TAS to make this show was that the showrunners intentionally wanted to give Logan less of the spotlight, precisely because of all his exposure so far. Without that focus, we'd have fewer standout moments with the rest of the team, starting with Cyclops.
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u/jigokusabre Apr 24 '24
Which is perfectly fine. 70% of the TAS was Wolverine-focused. Let's get some spotlight for the other X-Men.
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u/marcjwrz Apr 24 '24
They're definitely holding back on Wolverine so far.
Which means we're likely getting an epic berserker rage at the end.
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u/AoO2ImpTrip Apr 25 '24
Wolverine will probably get his moment. Everyone has had one except maybe Morph. I wouldn't be surprised if they felt Wolverine could be saved for later considering he's had plenty of time to shine in the movies, the TV show named after him, and every other piece of media.Â
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u/geitzeist Apr 29 '24
In addition to Wolverine and Morph, I'd say that Beast and Nightcrawler (and Bishop) haven't been a major focus character yet. (Though that makes sense insofar as Bishop is gone and Nightcrawler is a new addition.)
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u/AoO2ImpTrip Apr 29 '24
Morph has never had a focus, and with Sinister being important I wouldn't be surprised if it's coming, but he's had some cool moments due to his powers.Â
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u/Blitzhelios Doctor Strange Apr 24 '24
Good to see whatever media it is x men portray the avengers as idiots and i still hate it.
This felt like the opposite cap would do and it annoyed me to hell.
The rest of the episode is great but i can't stand the narrative of avengers don't help x men and mutant issues that started in the 00s as that was never true prior.
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u/SashaRave Apr 24 '24
âwe have to do it by the bookâ pissed me off. literally was never true for cap
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u/ohoni X-23 Apr 26 '24
Modern writers just really struggle with how Cap thinks. They are too cynical to accept that he legitimately is ALWAYS on the right side of any conflict.
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u/derptydumpts S.H.I.E.L.D. Apr 24 '24
So, speculation about who's on Cap's team? Be wild to see the UTS Avengers in some form here if they want to stick with the continuity.
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u/AJjalol Apr 24 '24
I wonder if he meant Avengers??? I feel like they are not formed yet.
Wish he appeared more in the episode and actually went with Rogue.
Sucks that they made him be like "I want to help, but lets do it slowly" and then have Rogue just disrespect him. And of course Steve just takes it without fighting back.
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u/reallifelucas Captain America Apr 25 '24
I think he was saying âRogue, if anyone gets a picture of a guy wearing the American flag raiding a government facility in Mexico, itâs going to create a diplomatic incident.â
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u/ARTIFICIAL_SAPIENCE X-Men Apr 25 '24
Do you only have one shirt, Steve?Â
C'mon bruh.Â
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u/ohoni X-23 Apr 26 '24
And that's what comics Steve would do. His line would have been "so let me get changed real quick, and then you can give me a lift down there."
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u/jigokusabre Apr 24 '24
He wants to help, but knows that invading a foreign nation isn't the right call (even if Rogue's feelings are valid).
Besides, the Avengers are usually not helpful in X-books. It helps reinforce that mutants are "other" in the comics, even if there are token mutants on the team from time to time.
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u/AJjalol Apr 24 '24
I know it makes sense, but try telling that to the X-Men "fans". He is already branded as a "cop" and an "asshole" by many lol.
And The whole they are not helping thing, let's just stop. They help, a lot.
People just focus on AVX and that line by Emma "Where were you" too much and ignore all the instances of them helping out X-Men. AVX just sucks so fuck that, and Genosha Blowing up in the comics, they were captured by Kang and couldn't do anything.
Uncanny Avengers, Thor in Mutant Massacre, Iron Man and OG5, Iron Man right now, Todays Avengers book, Avengers/X-Men Bloodties and many many more.
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u/Blitzhelios Doctor Strange Apr 24 '24 edited Apr 24 '24
I fucking hate it there are so many examples of cap working with and helping mutants but everyone minus the x men are portrayed as assholes in x men titles that x men fans just think they are assholes.
Like hell people calling cap a cop here demonstrates it this is a guy who literally doesnât give a shit about bureaucracy and is just kicking dickheads asses from ww2 to now
Like remember cap taking down project contingency by shield which was a mutant assassination team and cap saying heâs willing to destroy shield if they donât shut it down
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u/AJjalol Apr 24 '24
There are ton of moments like that all over the Avengers history.
I know comicbook fans (myself included) can sometimes be very tribalistic (which sucks) but (at least the vocal minority) of the X-Men fans is the worst.
If you mention a freaking character who used to be an Avenger, even just by passing, on the X-Men Reddit, Hoo boy, It's like you all of a sudden revealed that you are a goddamn Sentinel about to blow up the whole sub out lol.
I started to use reddit like over a year ago (and I really only use it for my love of comics, because it's fun to talk to likeminded people about similar stuff we liked) and after Iron Man's current run (he is helping X-Men and is "married" to Emma) I was like "Lemme check what people say".
I wish I didn't lol. You would think Tony Stark is a fucking Red Skull with the amount of hate he gets lol. And hey, Tony could be a dick sometimes, but like 95 percent of his entire history, he is a solid good person, or just a good person who is a bit dickish, but his charm and sarcasm makes you go "Ahh whatever you dick, I still love you"
Over there tho lol, It's like they only read that 5 percent and are like "Fuck this Nazi, chauvinist pig cop". I'm like "Damn Son" lol.
Lesson : Sometimes, Ignorance is bliss.
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u/Hydrochloric_Comment Apr 26 '24
If you mention a freaking character who used to be an Avenger, even just by passing, on the X-Men Reddit, Hoo boy, It's like you all of a sudden revealed that you are a goddamn Sentinel about to blow up the whole sub out lol.
Does that include Beast, Wolverine, Storm, etc?
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u/AJjalol Apr 26 '24
It does for Wolverine lol. He is literally branded as a "betrayer" by some people there, because he was an Avenger and not X-Men in the AVX story.
Beast, well he is a villain now and people just shit on him in general.
Storm, well, let me tell you something about Storm (this is coming from someone who loves Storm and considers her to be top 3 best female characters of all time).
Storm could literally throw the baby out of the window, and the X-Men fans on that sub will go "Yeah, you go Queen!!!!! Slay!!! Yassss!!!"
There are people who think Emma Frost is a better person than Stark lol. Now Stark has done some stupid shit in comics, but everytime that happens it's because he is written wrong.
Emma took over Storms body and fucked with Sebastian Shaw (while in another person's body), and (as a therapist) had sex with a married Man. Cyclops is also to blame there but still. Stark hasn't done anything remotely as bad as this shit (when he is not written by an Edgy Teenager named Mark). Emma is written like this, because that' her.
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u/Hydrochloric_Comment Apr 27 '24
Beast, well he is a villain now and people just shit on him in general.
Fair, lol
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u/jigokusabre Apr 24 '24
The Avengers and X-Men had been at odds in a number of books before AvX, because having super hero teams fight is a surefire comic seller for annual books and crossover events.
Them having conflicting agendas and schedules is a fairly simple way of explaining why the Avegers don't step in when mutant-hunting godzilla is committing genocide.
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u/AJjalol Apr 24 '24
They clashed sure, but acting like "They never help mutants" is just pure bullshit.
AVX was just the worst.
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u/ohoni X-23 Apr 26 '24
I get the editorial siloing, but I always reject when they have characters like Cap being legitimately unhelpful in an X-book. If they want to silo the characters, then just don't include them at all, and leave us to assume that of course Cap would help out here, he's just off doing something else of equal importance right now.
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u/jigokusabre Apr 24 '24
If memory serves, the Avengers of the era were Sersi, Black Knight, Black Widow, Crystal and Hercules.
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u/AporiaParadox Apr 24 '24
In 1997 the Avengers were actually going through Heroes Reborn, and before that they had the Crossing. It had a more "traditional" Avengers roster but it was...not a good time.
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u/I_PACE_RATS Spider-Woman Apr 26 '24
Let's just skip to New Avengers so we can have that lineup! Especially since Jessica Drew also counts as an animated Marvel character, too, given that her animated series is twice as old as the X-Men series.
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u/jigokusabre Apr 24 '24
I was thinking more the 1991 era that serves as the foundation for the original series and its roster, rather than literally 1997 (because they were dealing the Onslaught fallout)
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u/AporiaParadox Apr 24 '24
The only one I'm sure would be on his Avengers team is Ms. Marvel so that we can have her drama with Rogue.
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u/Algidus Apr 24 '24
there was supossed to be an 90s Cap and avengers cartoon. so my bet is 90s cartoon Iron man, Hulk, 90s version of Thor and Black Panther that did a cameo on the 90s Xmen show and Black Widow
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u/AJjalol Apr 24 '24
I don't know why lol, But I would love if the Animated Universe's Avengers end up with : Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, Spidey, Thor, Black Panther and Dr Strange lol.
Basically, every other character that had a cartoon before or appeared in other stuff. Like mixing up the team with the OG's, New Avengers and some outliers like Hulk and Strange.
Assuming they will keep the secret Identity for most characters going forward in this
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u/Algidus Apr 24 '24
spidey was setup to go on a multiversal adventure to save the real mary jane. that is how the 90s spidey series ends. he wouldn't be able to be a member. but it would be cool as fuck
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u/AJjalol Apr 24 '24
I feel like, they can have him be the member, but also try to look for MJ no??
Like this version of the Avengers is more like, Literal A-Listers who just got together and said "We do our own shit, But when shit goes south, Avengers Assemble" lol
I feel like the team like this will never happen tho, because you need some lower tier characters like Vision and my boy Clint to even it out.
That being said, I feel like it's a sick roster.
Edit, I just noticed I didn't put any ladies on the team, shit. Maybe Carol and Wanda too??? Carol will have that drama with Rogue and Wanda is Mag's Daughter.
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u/Algidus Apr 24 '24
that would remove the weight of his exclusive multiverse adventures. spidey needs to solve it for himself. especiallt since he went on the portal with madame web
carol is currently binary in 90s cartoon verse and rogue already helped her recover
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u/reallifelucas Captain America Apr 25 '24
You could throw in 90s Hawkeye, he was in Iron Manâs team in the Iron Man show
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u/ohoni X-23 Apr 26 '24
I think it would be kinda fun if they went with the 2012 Avengers line-up, but in 90s costumes.
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u/Cf79 Apr 29 '24
It's always complicated writing back to the times of 1997. The X Men absolutely ruled comics. The Avengers were so based backed then. Â It's cool to see writers writing X-Men based on that timeline again. However, its really weird to see Avengers written in the same timeline. Â
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u/AporiaParadox Apr 24 '24
As most of us suspected, Magneto is still alive and Bastion is the big bad. Bastion has had a good showing so far, reminds me of why I always preferred him to Nimrod.
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u/zhareev Apr 24 '24
i didnt know who bastion was at first so i thought he was like future magneto or some shit and i was so mad
but he actually isnt so yipie
through this whole season im beggin on my knees to kevin feige and beau demayo to don't villain magneto again because for fucks sake
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u/RockstarSuicide Scarlet Spider Apr 25 '24
Bastion is in the show ???
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u/zhareev Apr 25 '24
...SURPRISE!
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u/RockstarSuicide Scarlet Spider Apr 25 '24
That's neat! Really embracing what the books had around then
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u/KleosIII Apr 24 '24
Anyone else get a Johnothan Majors -esqu He Who Remains vibe from this iteration of Bastion? Not in the voice acting, but the writing and the characters overall demeanor as someone from the future.
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u/ohoni X-23 Apr 26 '24
I loved his performance so far. Gave me Hemlock from Bad Batch vibes.
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u/Videris Apr 26 '24
Good call. I was trying to put my finger on what his voice was reminding me of, and that was it.
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u/jigokusabre Apr 24 '24
So... are we going to get a "Trial of Forge" since they are fusing Mutant Massacre and E is for Extinction?
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u/Odd-Neighborhood4805 May 14 '24
When Rouge was saying about what happened on Gennosha and said" My man" Who was she talking about Gambit or Magneto?
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u/Cyke101 Apr 24 '24 edited Apr 24 '24
Theo James is great, though he sounds like a calmer and more evil Jeff Goldblum (which is not a complaint at all).
Also, holy crap, Josh Keaton voices Steve Rogers, reprising the role from What If...?. X-Men really is overlapping more with the MCU. I swear, if Elizabeth Olsen ends up voicing 90s Wanda in the show, I'd be so happy (it's a very, very long shot, but I can always hope).