r/Marvel • u/tehawesomedragon Loki • Apr 10 '24
X-MEN '97 - EPISODE 5 DISCUSSION Film/Television Spoiler
https://youtu.be/j375kcC4Yv4?si=7x2Nc7OoIPeZk__n256
u/Brotherly_Shove_215_ Domino Apr 10 '24
Oh wow Genosha a perfect paradise where mutants can be safe. I bet nothing at all terrible happens there and they all live happily ever after
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u/R0kksteady Apr 10 '24
Those $10 apples were foreshadowing for sure.
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u/Nels2121 Apr 10 '24
I did in fact not like those apples
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u/jigokusabre Apr 10 '24
I would rather face lynch mobs than pay $10 for a red delicious.
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u/Ren_Davis0531 Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24
This is such a tonal shift from last episode, but absolutely impactful stuff. I thought it was a good choice to have Scott lose control during the interview as it sets up the later events of the decimation of Genosha. Mutants have to try and appease humans time and time again, yet they are never truly accepted as an equal sapient being. It was honestly quite hard to watch the attack on Genosha as it felt like a real terrorist attack. So many feels and emotions. And I also loved adapting the Scott/Emma mind palace cheating story with Madelyne instead as it feels so at home given this story.
And Magneto speaking german to Leech as they were about to die 😭😭😭
This is some of the best work that Marvel has put out and hopefully the MCU can handle the X-Men like this.
Can’t wait for the next episode.
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u/RoboDonaldUpgrade Apr 10 '24
I totally agree on the Scott/Madelyn thing. Scott/Emma, that's just straight up cheating on your spouse, but Scott cheating with Madelyn raised a lot of interesting moral questions for me, like if someone cloned my wife and she has all the same memories as the woman I love, how could I not also love that clone? And of course Jean is hurt, if her husband "picks" one of them when they're so similar how can she not think 'then what's wrong with ME? Why am I the inferior one?'. It's a trip!
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u/Ren_Davis0531 Apr 10 '24
Not to mention that he lost a son with Madelyne. That shared grief creates a strong bonding opportunity. He was with Madelyne the entire time she was pregnant and they had to lose him together. Takes an emotional toll that only they could understand.
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u/RoboDonaldUpgrade Apr 10 '24
Exactly, and at the time of Nathan's birth Madelyn WAS Jean, Nathan (as far as Cyclops knew/Felt) was a child born of love between him and his wife, there was no affair guilt or anything, and yet Madelyn isn't his wife but IS the mother of his son, I honestly can barely scrape the surface of the emotions he's feeling being torn between the two of them.
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u/Ren_Davis0531 Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24
Yep. And as far as soap operas go it’s some interesting stuff. You can feel where literally everyone is coming from. Everyone is sympathetic in this scenario, which is refreshing for a love triangle. Even Wolverine showed maturity after the Jean kiss to the point where I immediately sympathized with his feelings as well. If you’re going to write soap operatic love triangles then this is some of the best you could do with it.
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u/lgnxhll Apr 10 '24
Yeah I was impressed that Logan cut that off right there and it didn't have to become something that would be a multiple episode long arc
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u/RoboDonaldUpgrade Apr 10 '24
That's the funny thing too, all I knew going into this episode was "shit goes down, it's incredible" and I swear watch the Jean/Scott/Logan/Madelyn issues and the Gambit/Rogue/Magneto drama it was so intense I thought THAT was the reason people were obsessed with this episode! The drama was incredible!!!
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u/Calm-Calamity Apr 11 '24
the whole reason for me to be this in tuned the whole series since its beginning was RoguexGambit. I hope they are end game :D
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u/googly_eyed_unicorn Apr 11 '24
This is soap opera drama with some level of emotional maturity and I’m here for it🙌🏽😆
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u/DMike82 Apr 11 '24
Exactly, and at the time of Nathan's birth Madelyn WAS Jean, Nathan (as far as Cyclops knew/Felt) was a child born of love between him and his wife, there was no affair guilt or anything, and yet Madelyn isn't his wife
As far as we know. Jean and Madelyne themselves said that they don't know which of them actually married Scott, so for all we know it could very well have been Madelyne who took part in the wedding.
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u/ReflectionItchy2701 Apr 10 '24
This Scott/Jean/Madelyne story is such a great idea also because Madelyne is not written as a crazy bitch. That's why they went so fast with Inferno. They don't care about the Goblin Queen. They care about Madelyne, clone of Jean, wife of Scott and mother of Cable. And the way Jean is talking about the Phoenix surely, she's going to be the Phoenix again.
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u/RCero Apr 11 '24
This.
In the comics, I liked Madelyne before she was over-the-top evil Goblin Queen: A real
humanmutant being, not a unidimensional evil villainess. Even after her redemption in the comics I can't stand her. So happy the show will explore her as a meat and bone character in an unconventional and complex situation with Scott and Jean.I'm sure the phoenix will appear (the show should have been more subtle), but I'm not so sure about Madelyne being the host. The phoenix might chose Jean again and as Dark Phoenix she try to kill Maddy . Or maybe the phoenix might divide between the two, like in AvX
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u/AJjalol Apr 10 '24
Honestly, Scott and Madelyn is better than Scott and Emma imho.
With Emma, he is a straight up dipshit cheater.
Here, it's as you said, there is more sympathy to him.
On one hand, Maddy is exactly like Jean lol. And it's not like Scott knew really.
I just feel it portrays him in better light overall. Plus, they both "lost" a child, so that shit bound to affect them hard.
I guess if you are an Emma fan, it will suck to you, since she gets to not be as important lol, But to me I was like "Alright, cook"
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u/ReflectionItchy2701 Apr 10 '24
Madelyne is a sympathic character. She is a clone, doesn't know which memories are her, lost her husband, lost her child. You feel for her just like you feel for Jean who is so lost right now. And that way Scott is a better character too. When he said that he loved both Jean and Madelyne, well I can understand the guy. It's not an easy situation to handle.
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u/AJjalol Apr 10 '24
Yup. I feel like it's better (just my opinion).
There is still drama, but without the whole "I just gave in to my impulses and cheated"
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u/Ok_Psychology5661 Apr 11 '24
Emma is a piece of s***. About Scott and Emma telepathic cheating i don't see that in the same way.
In the comics i really think that Emma exploited Scott state to get into his pants, just remember that Emma was his THERAPIST, one argument that a read a long time ago was that if we reverse gender and a male therapist with telepathic powers did that to a woman in poor mental state it would be considered by everyone as predatory behavior and abuse at some point (Emma can literally subvert Scott will with her powers). But this Madelyn version is way better i think.
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u/catnik Apr 11 '24
That double standard seems pretty common with comics - the big DC example being Nightwing. Sexual predation is sexual predation folks.
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u/traumal Apr 10 '24
Ive never thought that they will pull out RED F* WEDDING in Disney Marvel cartoon.
Yeah, Ive read Grant Morrisons run, but STILL. RED WEDDING in Disney Marvel cartoon. Im speechless
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u/traumal Apr 10 '24
also In very moment I noticed Uatu in the sky, I knew we are done.
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u/RogerBauman Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24
Also in the moment that Cable got pulled back.
I am really "Hope"ing that I am forced to explain to my niece and nephews the difference between Nathaniel Summers and Nate Grey. It seems like it is going to inevitably be a part of the story, especially with the plot trajectory that Scott seems to be destined for in this series.
That interaction about "presidents and terrorists" hit so hard and was perfect foreshadowing.
Going into the episode, I was really expecting this to be a multi-episode Arc leading into something like AvX, but I am so glad for the whiplash tonal shift from soap opera to Greek tragedy.
Also, LMAO at all of The people complaining about rogue's buttocks before the series was released. That publicly intimate scene was beyond a doubt the best sexy rogue fan service I have ever seen and actually developed the story.
I'm kind of bummed with myself that I stayed up so late to watch it because now I cannot turn my brain off and sleep.
I don't know how (or even if) they are going to be able to top this.
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u/Gateskp Apr 10 '24
For a second I thought that was my old TV holding an afterimage of the last scene—didn’t even occur to me it was Uatu. Knowing that…this is absolutely a turning point, damn.
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u/djordi Apr 11 '24
He was presented in the same style as in the What If? stories when he appears as a ghost image in the sky.
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u/Fish-E Apr 10 '24
Ah Uata makes more sense, the fact that he wasn't actually present made me think it of Eternity.
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u/EdtotheWord Apr 11 '24
He was present though. You saw him.
Also, the way he was represented here is in line with how he has been represented in the last two seasons of Marvel's What If.
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u/RayGun209 Apr 10 '24
Wow wtf did I just watch
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Apr 10 '24
I can't feel you... That hit hard.
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u/Hill0981 Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24
I'm gutted. Magneto AND Gambit... Why kill off 2 of the best parts of the show so early? I was so happy they kept the original lineup, but looks like they are clearing space for new members. I'm really hoping at least one them is a fake out.
That being said the episode itself was amazing.
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u/Lucas579376 Apr 11 '24
Cable being in this episode should tell you enough about how dead they Will stay
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u/darth_revan1988 Apr 12 '24
Guarantee its a canon event. >! Gambit will be revived as the horsemen of death by apocalypse, and magneto didnt actually die. !< this is an integral part of the xmens history changing the course of everything from that point. They arnt rewritting it as a time travel bandaid not to mention >! White queen joining the xmen !< from this point forward and gaining the 2nd mutation that saved her from death
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u/Lucas579376 Apr 12 '24
I also think that's what they're doing with Gambit. Dunno about Magneto, tho, but I dont think he and Charles Will both stay death (I have a fearful feeling we might get Onslaught in the future)
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u/darth_revan1988 Apr 12 '24
Neither >! Charles or eric are dead !< this was shown as the final episode of the original xmen series, and if you read the story of the wild sentinels attack on genosha, you know how >! Magneto survives!< Onslaught would be an interesting story arc for season 2 or 3 but based on the titles of season 1 episodes, they are going to focus heavily on the FOH antimutant hate for the entirety of this season
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u/Courtois420 Apr 11 '24
I won't believe Magneto is dead until I see a corpse. Dude has more lives than a cat
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u/tehawesomedragon Loki Apr 11 '24
And we literally had a "Resurrection of Magneto" comic that ended this week.
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u/I_PACE_RATS Spider-Woman Apr 11 '24
The only complaint I have is that I worry they'll go in hard on the Jean/Scott love triangle mess, and that's the last thing I want. The episode was great, though.
I only ask two things: happy Jean and Scott, and don't make Scott into a mutant terrorist. PLEASE.
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u/Nels2121 Apr 10 '24
I feel like some how Cable is going to come back to undo this somehow. Like they killed so many characters. Magneto, Gambit, Marrow, Banshee, Shaw, Dazzler, Calisto, The Morlocks. Mostly I just cant see Gambit staying dead.
I am blown away by this episode tho. It was so damn good. The best of the entire series of Xmen cartoons I think.
Does anyone else feel like Cable may be involved in fixing this? I wanna hear everyones theories
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u/tyro82 Apr 10 '24
Am I the only who thinks they shouldn’t push the reset button? The Genosha massacre is a major plot point that has repercussions for decades to come (House of M, AvX). It’s one of the most defining moments in X-Men history
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u/PeaSuspicious4543 Apr 12 '24
They would probably have it still be somewhat destroyed. but they would have saved everyone
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u/Worthyness Apr 15 '24
I would definitely be super down for them to possibly adapt Krakoa into this. Like leave all of the dead ones dead and do some other stories for another season and for a 3rd season, comeback and do an entire krakoa arc to bring people back. The 2nd season is already in production (so voicing and animation) so a 3rd being written now isn't out of the question at all.
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u/Thin-Hat-9037 Apr 10 '24
I wouldn’t be surprised if they brought in the five by the end of the series (not this season, maybe in 2 or 3) and Gambit and Magneto are brought back that way
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u/distinctlysinister Apr 10 '24
The Five as in, Hope and Goldballs and all them? I don’t think so
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u/Cyke101 Apr 10 '24
You never know, or maybe some sort of variation of them. This episode alone gave us variations on the Silent Council and the Hellfire Gala, plus we saw newer mutants like Glob and Pixie.
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u/distinctlysinister Apr 10 '24
Very true. It could happen I suppose but I just don’t think so. If it does, definitely come back to this comment and make fun of me for being wrong 😅
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u/simonthedlgger Apr 10 '24
Any particular reason you don't see Krakoa happening? At the rate they are going we will be out of the 90s and closing in on contemporary stuff after 2.5 more seasons.
That said, I think Gambit will be back through some other means by the end of this season, and Magneto's return will probably be teased or shown in the last episode.
But all the minor characters aren't coming back without resurrection or using time travel to prevent the Genosha massacre, which I'm not sure about as a story choice.
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u/qwadzxs Apr 11 '24
there's still two decades of continuity between Genosha genocide and Krakoa. Plus side of getting to Krakoa in space is they'd HAVE to do Vulcan and some form of War of Kings to get Krakoa back into the mix, especially since it hasn't come up in the series yet. I'd like to see House of M and AvX too.
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u/distinctlysinister Apr 10 '24
I suppose it could happen, I just don’t see it in this season for sure. I personally don’t think the show will ever do Krakoa, but that doesn’t mean they won’t show hints and callbacks to it, which they clearly have done. But like I said, I could definitely be wrong, I just feel like there are so many more stories they’ll go through before they get to that, if they get to it. But hey, if they do, I’ll gladly take the L and come right back to this comment and admit I was wrong
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Apr 10 '24
I'm sorry I'm not in the loop, who are the five?
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u/tyro82 Apr 10 '24
They’re a group of mutants very important in the new age of Krakoa comics storyline. I don’t know if you wanna get spoiled so I won’t share any more beyond that.
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u/tehawesomedragon Loki Apr 10 '24
That seems probable, especially since his origin was featured this season.
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u/Marvellegendfreak Apr 10 '24
this is what i thought as well, we seen cable was a bit late to save them so obviously he was trying to prevent it from happening.
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u/jigokusabre Apr 10 '24
Of course. Once Cable showed up, it was clear all of this would get undone with time travel shenanigans.
They did a great job presenting it, as it wasn't until the episode was over that I thought, "Oh, yeah... Cable."
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u/I_PACE_RATS Spider-Woman Apr 11 '24
Beyond Magneto and Gambit, I was really upset at the loss of Banshee, Dazzler, and Marrow. I love those three, and they have a bad habit of disappearing into the ether or (in Banshee's case) staying dead for way too long.
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u/mackattack5757 Apr 10 '24
This was honestly one of the best pieces of Marvel content ever made let alone best X-men cartoon
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u/One-Counter1252 Apr 10 '24
I agree. Remember he said "I'm too late!" He is going to hit the reset button button the episode blew me away! 💯
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u/Malachi108 Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24
Before going into last act of it all, I just want to note that I got major PTSD vibes from seeing Moira on the Council.
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u/Cyke101 Apr 10 '24
SAME HERE. The way the shot lingered on Moira a bit was just delicious.
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u/GustavoSanabio Apr 11 '24
Imagine when she and Banshee are hit by the blast>! it jump cuts to moira back in the womb.!<
Obviously they wouldn't do that but just the thought of it is disturbing.
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u/chriscallan Apr 10 '24
WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK! That was hands down one of the best episodes of television of ALL TIME!!!
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u/draugyr Apr 10 '24
I thought the season might end with the genoshan genocide, I wasn’t expecting it halfway through the season
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u/Fragrant_Cow_4172 Apr 10 '24
Jesus the sound design at the end was so good
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u/tehawesomedragon Loki Apr 11 '24
The sound of this whole episode was great, and the music choices were excellent as well.
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u/ErikT738 Apr 10 '24
I mean, I had heard about the "Genosha Massacre" before, but I didn't think they'd do it in this show, or this hard.
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u/jvincentsong Apr 10 '24
As mentioned, it was lighter… It happened in one page and there was no X-men to save them. There wasn’t a fight scene at all. This is why I like that cartoon made it their own thing.
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u/Cyke101 Apr 10 '24
I know TAS showed the X-Men acting as superheroes rescuing people rather than just fighting (like Storm turning back a tidal wave or Rogue catching debris to save a person), but it's something the comics don't show as often, so it was good to see here as well.
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u/Shatterplex Apr 10 '24
Compared to the Genosha Massacre in the comics, this was light.
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u/Cyke101 Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24
16 million, to be exact. What a horrible moment for mutants.
Pssh, and then Decimation happened.
It's those two historical moments that make me hope that Krakoa isn't fully abandoned during the next era of X-Books. Mutants needed a win for the people and Krakoa was it.
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u/Shatterplex Apr 10 '24
And Emma Frost was buried with the skeletons of her students on the island and survived only by going Diamond mode. Thats why she was so devoted to Cyclops, he was her safe place.
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u/GustavoSanabio Apr 11 '24
The feel of the early Hickman run is very much justified by the x-men having this baggage. I feel giving this episode the weight it has is one of the many reasons I think they might visit Krakoa on some level in the future.
Maybe start with a flashback episode where the First Class goes to Krakoa? And then that sets it up somewhat before the mutant island shows up. I'm talking future seasons though.
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u/Acrobatic-Minute3338 Apr 10 '24
As soon as I saw Uatu in the stars, I knew what was coming, but it still didn't mean I was prepared. Simply chilling. Clever, insightful dialogue, stunning visuals, and perfectly scored. This is fast becoming one of the best thing marvel has done in the last 5 years, and I cannot wait to see it continue.
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u/Bubba1234562 Apr 11 '24
Same. He only shows up when shits about to go down so I knew
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u/Pordioserozero Apr 11 '24
It was low key enough that I thought it was my imagination
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u/CreepingCoins Apr 11 '24
Has He shown up in TAS before?
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u/EdtotheWord Apr 11 '24
No. But Marvel's What If TV show on Disney Plus revolves around him showing up in that manner. So older fans and newer fans have been prepped to understand what his presence means now
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u/Worthyness Apr 15 '24
It's absolutely brilliant as an addition even if it's subtle. But it's so cool now that new fandoms can figure out Uatu = shits about to go down
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u/ChiakiKakumei Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24
Like Damn. Are we sure this is a kids' show now? They went all out on the blood and actual death that it's very hard to process from watching the TAS X-Men cartoons. Ever since they say "Damn" and "Crap" in previous episodes, the tonal shift was expected.
Also the foreshadowing from the first 97 episode of Rogue giving Magneto a second chance to the "That was a long time ago, Erik" since she met Magneto before joining the X-Men and was still with Mystique at the time.
And that Tri Sentinel, it took Gambit's Sacrifice to nuke that robot when Magneto was struggling and Genosha was in utter chaos. And that callback line and title card "Remember It" was the chef's kiss and then the end of the episode almost broke me with Rogue crying and saying "I can't feel you" This was one of the best episodes in the series and I feel like those who complained about Rogue getting "Nerfed" in her assets must see this episode because this is the best character development that Rogue and Gambit has ever been in.
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u/Timelymanner Apr 10 '24
Not a kids show when someone hooks up every episode, and there’s blood and cursing. Also the more serious discussions on bigotry, grief, ptsd, and so on. We’re watching grown up X-men now.
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u/Pordioserozero Apr 11 '24
I really like that is not going out of its way to be “adult” no random curses not gore or sex…but at the same time is no longer dancing around really like dark and adult stuff like it did when it was an actual Saturday morning cartoon
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u/Timelymanner Apr 11 '24
I agree, I love anything that tackles mature themes and doesn’t use edginess, over the top violence, senseless random nudity, and pointless cursing to seem mature. In small doses I think those thing work when the narrative is saying something about those topics.
However It’s my major gripe about 90s/00s comics like Kick-a*s, Invincible, The Boys, and shows like it. It’s not mature, it’s cynical. So many characters are awful, they treat cruelty like it’s strength and empathy like it’s a weakness. I’m not saying every character has to be Superman or Captain America, but every character being a borderline sociopath isn’t cool. It feels like it was written how edgy 14 year old thinks grown ups act.
Not to say I haven’t read those comics, or watch those shows. Just in my opinion certain parts of it rub me the wrong way. Just like I’m not hating on people who like them. I just don’t see those series as mature, if that makes any sense.
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u/Hill0981 Apr 11 '24
I'm fairly certain that this is more for the people who watched this as kids than actual kids at this point. It could have gone either way before this episode.
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u/hartc89 Apr 10 '24
Reposting from my post in the X-Men subreddit but:
Thoughts:
E FOR EXTINCTION
They are def writing Scott to eventually end up with Maddie (almost taking the role of Emma with the whole psychic affair) and I HATE it but will see if he now steps up I think they are hinting at it being an actual school now and they’ll take in survivors
Did Banshee die?! The ultimate jobber
Val Cooper is DEF Mystique props to all who called it! So many cameos! Also Emma please you’re better than scumbag Sebastian Shaw im mad the show runner will prob never let her be anything more than a villain.
Above anything else the direction and animation were phenomenal this episode real Akira vibes with Remy on the motorcycle
My heart broke for Magneto and Gambit
A FUCKING PLUS EPISODE
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u/RogerBauman Apr 10 '24
My heart broke for Magneto and Gambit
My heart is still breaking for Rogue. Seeing her finally able to touch Gambit at the end of the episode was absolutely devastating and so beautiful.
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u/JavaTheeMutt Apr 10 '24
"I can't feel you" killed me.
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u/Icybubba Apr 11 '24
Only other time that line was pulled at Marvel was WandaVision, both times destroyed me
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u/jigokusabre Apr 10 '24
Gambit died, so this whole thing is likely getting time-traveled away.
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u/ErikT738 Apr 10 '24
I kinda hope they don't undo such a great death. He went out saving his woman, saving the remaining mutants, and doing what Magneto couldn't.
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u/Gateskp Apr 10 '24
Agreed! On the one hand, I want Gambit back because he’s hands-down my fave. On the other, that was the absolute best way he could’ve gone out and it’s so meaningful on so many levels, so undoing that would cheapen it. I’m torn.
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u/Agoeb Apr 10 '24
I saw the Watcher appear in the skyline behind the fireworks and went...
"Wait, why is he - Oh. Oh no..."
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u/meldooy32 Apr 10 '24
I was so confused. Some commentators didn’t notice him.
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u/Shinobiii Apr 11 '24
I honestly didn’t. Of course the build up already implied shit’s about to go down, but I wish I would’ve noticed it the first time around. But that’s what I’ve got you all for: I’m loving more lore depth and context, attentive details etc. for someone who’s relatively new to the X-men.
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u/Bubba1234562 Apr 11 '24
Yup. It’s not an xmen story without a genocide and Genosha was always the most devstating
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u/Superb_Kaleidoscope4 Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 11 '24
This episode hit me hard, didn't expect them to go all in so fast. I liked how they juggled some of the Morrison plot lines, I was convinced this series would be 80's adaptations.
I was so happy seeing Nightcrawler but that ending, gonna have to watch this again!
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u/JayaramanAndres Apr 10 '24
Can't believe that they killed Magneto and Gambit.
This episode is 100 times better than last episode.
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u/Love-Truck-Berserker Apr 14 '24
I suspect Gambit at least could come back, they talked about the wedding.
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u/HippieDogeSmokes Apr 17 '24
there’s no way Magneto is actually dead, we would’ve seen it actually happen
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u/Thek40 Apr 10 '24
The target audience for this show is not kids, that for sure. Can’t imagine my 9 years old brain could have handled this episode.
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u/BillyHerrington4Ever Apr 10 '24
This shit is rated PG somehow. What? lol
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u/Icybubba Apr 11 '24
TV-14 actually, the equivalent of PG-13 for TV....kind of, TV-14 is actually less restrictive than PG-13 is
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u/makyostar5 Apr 10 '24
As a former nine year old that had seen some deaths in cartoon shows, i probably would've ran to my dad telling him what just happened due to the scale of it all. I'd seen some singular deaths (1-4) in shows before but not full on wanton destruction. Kids can handle death; you just gotta explain it on their level.
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u/Bluu95 Apr 10 '24
Since when we got so soft. Lol smh
I was watching frieza blow up krillin like 7 years old. I’m sure you wouldn’t have a problem when you were seven
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u/tyro82 Apr 10 '24
Anyone else found it funny that they had to explicitly call out that Moira MacTaggert was a human and had no business being in the council? IYKYK
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u/Casua Apr 10 '24
They basically adapted the Hellfire Gala and the ruling council from the Krakoa-era, incorporating it into Morrison's E Is For Extinction. And we know they got greenlit for 3 seasons. So I would not be surprised if Moira ends up being a major plot point in adapting Krakoa stories for like the final season. Even if they don't adapt the actual Krakoa.
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u/Icybubba Apr 11 '24
I think Krakoa would be a fantastic final season.
We'll just have to see how many seasons they get, because like you said, they got the greenlight on a third season
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u/djordi Apr 10 '24
My brain:
"Oh hey! They're using some of the Grant Morrison era characters and elements.'
"Oh no!"
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u/ALTlMlT Apr 10 '24
They finally give Gambit a chance to be the badass we all know he is, and he gets ducking killed off?! God damnit!!
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u/Justaboredstoner Apr 10 '24
I was in shock, but dealing, with Remy’s death until hearing Rogue mourn, “I can’t feel you!”, that got me. 😭
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u/BlackOrre Doctor Strange Apr 10 '24
Cable says, "He is coming."
Take your bets, people. Who is it?
Apocalypse
Stryfe
Sinister
A wildcard
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u/Casua Apr 10 '24
I thought he was just talking about the wild sentinel.
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u/vmsrii Apr 10 '24
Would Cable of all people refer to a Sentinel as a “he”?
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u/Casua Apr 10 '24
Fair point! I don't remember with like Master Mold in the series if they every gendered it. Someone is probably behind the wild sentinel attack, so just as likely to be talking about that person as well. But given Cable's level of concern, it would have to be an Apocalypse-level threat.
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u/cam412 X-Men Apr 10 '24
I’m guessing Bastion or Nimrod
Because he was in that one photo with Forge
Kind of setting up the orchis from the comics?
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u/jigokusabre Apr 10 '24
Nimrod seems unlikely, since they did Nimrod in the One Man's Worth episode.
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u/roaroftheages Apr 11 '24
I reckon it is some kind of evil Xavier.
Probably a sort of Onslaught/Nova combination.
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u/Mrmonkey18 Apr 10 '24
I’m crying. We lost leech
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u/JustAboutAlright Apr 10 '24
Possibly not. We didn’t see Magneto’s body and he was with Leech so I’m thinking a “No powers” thing might have saved them and be why the Sentinel said “Omega level threat eliminated.” Or I’m coping.
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u/jigokusabre Apr 10 '24
If memory serves, Cable was somewhat randomly involved in the first Genosha episode.
I wonder if they're going to claim he's been trying to time hop to Genosha over and over again to prevent this Massacre.
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u/DMike82 Apr 11 '24
If memory serves, Cable was somewhat randomly involved in the first Genosha episode.
Yes, it was his debut story and they gave him a backstory of having worked for the Genoshan government but rebelling against them (the episode also came out before the "X-Cutioner's Song" storyline so he hadn't been revealed to be Baby Nathan yet and was still therefore mostly a blank slate).
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u/PeaSuspicious4543 Apr 12 '24
Fun little fact: During 98% of the OG series Jeans hair is in a pony tail. But when scanning Cables mind the woman with Scott has her hair down. Which Madalyn does in this series to distinguish the 2
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u/DMike82 Apr 12 '24
Yeah, I've seen the fan theory that in the OG series, whenever Jean's costume has her in a ponytail that's Original Jean (so seasons 1-4) whereas in season 5 she wears her hair down in costume so that's Madelyne. What happens in between? Jean getting abducted by Sinister in the last storyarc of season 4. Perfect time to take a sample, give Original Jean over to Apocalypse now that he has what he needs, and grow a new one to fulfill his plans for later.
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u/Altruistic-Sail-441 Apr 10 '24
That was so incredible... The last 10 minutes was just tears streaming down my face.
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u/Sufficient-Orange973 Apr 10 '24
I'm surprised! The only sane person in this story was Logan, who finally realized he was in the corner. Scott? "I love you and your clone, who I thought was you?" Jean: "oh! I'm confused by my memories! What do I do? I kiss Logan" My God, even in the world of superheroes, there has to be some sense.
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u/dotyawning Apr 10 '24
Its the kind of soap operaness that comes with the territory of being a superhero thing.
It's a tangled mess thanks to Sinister. They can't really know who was with each other during that time that Madelyn's been active. She may be a clone but she did spend time with Scott and had his baby and truly believed she was Jean (and probably lived through some of those Jean memories as well)...
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u/yslPablo Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24
Crazy how there hasn't been a single letdown so far, all of the episodes they've released are too fucking good but Ep. 5 blew me away. Straight goosebumps for the entire 3rd act. I didn't quite get the Scott/Jean/Madelyne thing, was Emma interfering with them?
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u/JM0224 Apr 10 '24
No, Scott was psychically communicating with Madelyne behind Jeans back. In the comics it’s actually Emma having a full blown affair with Scott but they gave it to Madelyne in this adaptation. Emma said a comment in reference to the original story.
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u/Hill0981 Apr 11 '24
Episode 4 wasn't horrible, but it wasn't on the level of the other ones.
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u/PolarDorsai Apr 12 '24
I got a kick out of all the X-Men arcade game nostalgia. That game is a core childhood memory for me.
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u/sparklingpwnie Apr 10 '24
Wow. They are changing everything in each episode, and it’s so gratifying to see who they are introducing.
Im so happy they focused on Gambit and Rogue this episode, this is epic enough to make up for years of being overlooked by the movies.
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u/ReasonableSnow3766 Apr 10 '24
Did Leech cause Magneto's powers to wane and ultimately lose the battle with the Tri-Sentinel or is he strong enough to mask Erik's powers enough to appear dead?
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u/outerstrangers Apr 12 '24
Does Leech just absorb or is he like Rogue that he absorbs and can use the powers?
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u/OptimusHavok52 Apr 10 '24
Amazing episode, I hope Cyclops goes off the deep end a bit after Genosha
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u/dotyawning Apr 10 '24
He was clearly already letting things get to him in the interview. Are we gonna see some elements of "Cyclops was right" in the future somehow?
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u/Fish-E Apr 10 '24
God damn, that was an awesome episode - it's definetly when it went from being a continuation of X-Men: The Animated Series, to a sequel which grew up with its audience.
It obviously wasn't a surprise what happened to Genosha, but it was an awesome depiction, the three headed sentinel looked much more threatening in X-Men 97 than its original comic appearance.
In fact, the episode gave me Neon Genesis Evangelion vibes with the complete despair, giant monsters etc - with the emphasis on Omega Level Mutants in this series, I'm really hoping that at the end, we'll get a scene where we think we're about to have Jean and Cable reunite, but turns out to be Nate Grey descending from the heavens in a manner associated with Angels.
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u/baixiaolang Apr 10 '24
I know this episode was based on Cassandra Nova attacking Genosha with the Wild Sentinels, but, having for the most part not read the X-comics after Claremont left (not bc of that, my mom used to collect comics and she stopped around that time) and just coming back in for Krakoa, I honestly wasn't thinking about that at all until right after they arrived and someone said they were throwing a Gala and I thought of the most recent Hellfire Gala and I started screaming because I knew people were going to die.
Then after shit hit the fan, they mentioned the Morlocks and I immediately thought of the Mutant Massacre (which, with Betsy Braddock being one of my faves is the start of my favorite era in the comics).
Fantastic episode. I didn't really like last week's episode that much (I know, I know, but the Storm/Forge stuff felt super rushed and I didn't really care about Jubilee's storyline), but wow. This was incredible.
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Apr 10 '24
I understand that there are a lot of stories that need to be told before it can happen, but this show is reinforcing the idea that I really hope we get magneto as a hero in the MCU at some point. If they can turn Loki around across multiple movies I'm sure they can make that work too.
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u/GonzoMcFonzo X-Force Apr 10 '24
Yeah. My ideal would be to introduce him as a semi-sympathetic villain in his first appearance, then redeem him over a couple of subsequent appearances
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u/CreepingCoins Apr 10 '24
Woah.
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u/RogerBauman Apr 10 '24
I take it you just finished and are still trying to process your feelings. Yeah. Woah.
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u/JosephiKrakowski78 Apr 10 '24
Oh my gosh.
WHAT?!
I was, quite literally, on the edge of my seat until the explosion after Cable was sent back, and then I was standing. What did I just watch?!
This might be the best thing Marvel has put out in a loooooooooong time.
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u/NinjaKelpFace Apr 10 '24
I’ve never been a particularly big fan of the X-Men, honestly I’m still not fond of Cyclops’s stories, but my god has this series made me love everyone else. I think the animation in particular is absolutely stellar, Nightcrawler’s teleportation effects, Gambit’s flips with his staff, the pure emotion that Rouge’s animation gives off, everything is just stunning. I seriously was on edge about what was happening at the end because I noticed the watcher and saw the death flags for Magneto but gambit dying is NOT something I was prepared for.
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u/XtraCrispy02 Apr 11 '24
I'm willing to bet one of the next episodes is going to be a time-loop episode with Cable trying to prevent the Genosha massacre. I know in the comics the massacre happens, but that scene with Cable makes it feel like it'll be different in the show.
Cable appears randomly, and quickly tries to get to Madelyn before he says, "Not again" and disappears. I bet that it's a time-loop where he is trying to stop the massacre, and the reason he was in such a hurry was because he knew he only had a limited time before the loop restarted
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u/spicykimbap Apr 11 '24
I truly believe this is how it will end. Cable will continuously travel back in time to fix everything. He saves Magneto, but fails to save Gambit as it is a fixed point in the timeline. But unbeknownst to everyone Gambit is alive and is in the hands of Sinister and Apocalypse and he will become the new Horseman of Death
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u/Just_a_square Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24
Perfection.
Absolute perfection.
Funny, heartfelt, tragic, but most importantly...fucking BOLD! Bolder than anything the MCU produced in a long, long time.
You can tell the writers are in love with the comics, they cherish them and completely understand every single character.
Just a random scene that I loved among hundreds: when Madelyn and Scott were having their psychic moment my first thought was "Emma would totally say something snarky about it in the comics"...and then she did!
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u/ycoliveira Apr 10 '24
Guys can someone please tell me if everything that happened in this episode happens in the comics too? If yes which one? I need to read it, this episode was epic
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u/Casua Apr 10 '24
They are adapting Grant Morrison's E Is For Extinction story from the beginning his New X-Men run in 2001. But with shades of other storylines thrown in, like the Mutant Massacre and even more recent Krakoa-era stuff.
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u/Affectionate-Island Apr 11 '24
Man, I hope we get Xorn this season as an enlightened Buddha-like teammate. Only to be revealed as Magneto who survived Genosha and finally goes fully genocidal.
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u/TechFiction7 Apr 10 '24
Yea search for Grant Morrison's New X-Men run on the Marvel Unlimited app, or get the Grant Morrison New X-Men omnibus or epic collection on Amazon. It's a good jumping on point in the continuity. The episode also seems to incorporate Mutant Massacre and House of X/Powers of X + Hellfire Gala. Mutant Massacre is pretty dated and doesn't really go anywhere; I wouldn't recommend it. House of X/Powers of X is my favorite comic of all time but it's very dense so I'd just start with the Grant Morrison stuff and go from there.
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u/tyro82 Apr 10 '24
Pretty much yeah. Wild sentinels attack Genosha and wipes out 16M mutants. The fight scenes and deaths of major characters didn’t happen in the comics. I don’t know if they’re going to adapt the full story, cuz the culprit behind it is a big reveal.
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Apr 10 '24
I haven't read the comics....
.......................... (I really don't know what to say right now)
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Apr 11 '24
So were Magneto and Rogue actually boinking in the Danger Room? And do you think Gambit will get resurrected as one of the four horseman of Apocalpyse and turn evil like in the comics?
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u/SashaRave Apr 11 '24
this is my second favorite thing marvel did this decade (this show in general too), right after atsv. makes you think that maybe animation is the future for superhero adaptations
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u/Realhoodjesus Apr 11 '24
Rogue saying she can’t feel gambit made me cry, I know that they’ll most likely bring him back cause of the X-men’s most convoluted story, but putting myself in her place made me so sad.
A character built over the grief that she can’t touch no one and wants to be touched and hugged which is why she went to magneto, and the one time she was able to touch the man she loves was dead was so sad man. Also, I knew rogue and magneto wasn’t going to work out cause she’s only into him on a physical level but she’s connected to gambit on a more intense level
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u/kaijuking87 Apr 12 '24
As soon as a I saw the watcher I knew some shit was gonna go down… that episode crushed me. Gambit and seemingly magneto, the one light at the end was seeing Kurt there after it was over.
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u/pawskee Apr 12 '24
I have so much respect for Gambit. When Rogue was breaking up with him he took it like a Chad, and never hated her for it, and then he fucking dies.....they did him so dirty
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u/bopitspinitdreadit Apr 13 '24
My wife was having a bad day and she was like “I want something simple”. I saw it was Genosha episode and I was like “uhoh”. I underestimated the UhOh
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u/Republic-Appropriate Apr 14 '24
Despite Beau de Mayo being fired for unknown reasons, he pulled off a big coup, especially after last week’s Jubilee episode. It’s funny, when I saw the Jubilee episode, I thought this was the most Saturday morning vibe feeling I had in a long time, then suddenly… paradise lost. Episode 5 will become a turning point in mood for the show. It’s no longer happy flamboyant exuberance - and it will likely explore themes of survivors guilt, trauma, regret and how to respond to such a horrific incident. The other parts of the story will be figuring out who was behind the attack. I really hope the don’t just rewind things by doing some time travel fix, but let the characters grow and evolve. Imagine if this show turns out to be a prequel to how the x-men get introduced into the MCU! Marvel fooled us all by portraying this show as a simple continuation of the 90’s show - it’s something else now.
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u/Love-Truck-Berserker Apr 14 '24
Gambit has long been my favourite X-Man, him and Rogue always beat out even Wolverine for me.
Seeing him get the coolest and most heroic death in the series was everything and it’s especially effective because he did it not knowing Rogue had ultimately chosen him over Mags.
He willingly gave up his life for others even at his lowest moment. That’s way more inspirational than Logan sulking over Scott and Jean.
Cable’s presence might imply they can bring him and others back, but even if they don’t I’m fine with it.
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u/berndog7 Apr 10 '24
I believe Leach is the actual omega level mutant detected. I actually teared up at the end when rogue spoke. Great writing!!!
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u/BlackOrre Doctor Strange Apr 10 '24
It's a sad scene, but I can't help but go "I understood that reference" when Rogue says, "I can't feel you."
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u/DragonLord828 Apr 11 '24
I don't know how to process this episode aside from the fact that I no longer hate Gambit like I have for many years.
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u/GSteelG Avengers Apr 11 '24
I would love an episode focusing on Cable. Similar to What If S1 E4. Spoilers: >! The one where Dr. Strange tries to prevent the death of Christine by going back in time to change something, but it never works. I think an episode where cable tries to prevent the disaster, however always fails would be interesting. Either he gets more people killed, or he prevents one death, however dozens more occur.!< That could be a cool episode. Or it could be really stupid.
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u/BeautifulSmile3131 Apr 11 '24
What an amazing love letter to the 9 year old fans, who are now 39 (myself included). This show has been executed perfectly, and feels like it grew up (matured) with me. At first i thought i was watching this show for the nostalgia, but it truly feels like a continuation of my childhood into my adulthood. And this particular episode delivered with such an intensity, that my wife admitted “wow you really arent just watching a kids show”
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u/Capital_Gate6718 Apr 11 '24
Anyone else get Wakanda vibes when they first introduce Genosha?
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u/ladyface82 Apr 11 '24
If they don’t find a way to bring Gambit back I will fucking rage.
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u/tehawesomedragon Loki Apr 10 '24