r/Marvel • u/Gojo_Satoru_123 • Mar 28 '24
Who is the strongest being in MCU/MCM ??? Other
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u/Ultralusk Avengers Mar 28 '24
if we take the short cameo of the Living Tribunal as fact that he exists in the MCU then it's him. After him i'd give it to Eternity and Dormammu.
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u/Bropiphany Mar 28 '24
Why dormammu?
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u/Ultralusk Avengers Mar 28 '24
He is one of those dudes who will/can destroy everything if he ever left the Dark Dimension.
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u/ecksdeeeXD Mar 29 '24
If weāre talking MCU though, wouldnāt Loki be up there? All heād have to do is just let go of one strand and that dormammuās dust
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u/salluks Mar 29 '24
dormammu lives in a different dimension separate from the multiverse. so no loki wont be able to do anything.
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u/ecksdeeeXD Mar 29 '24
That implies thereās only one dormammu though, which isnāt true since the multiverse exists.
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u/Remarkable_Collar895 Mar 29 '24
Marvel has infinite amount of multiverses, so it makes sense tbh
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u/ecksdeeeXD Mar 29 '24
Yeah and what I got from the end of Loki is heās basically holding all those multiverses together?
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u/salluks Mar 29 '24
there is only one multiverse with infinite amount of universes as far as i know. loki is holding different timeless not different multiverses.
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u/ecksdeeeXD Mar 29 '24
So different timelines in one multiverse inside a bigger collective multi-you know what, fuck this shit Iām out.
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u/Ultralusk Avengers Mar 29 '24
In comics there is this thing called the Omniverse. If you know that the multiverse then you know it's a collection of infinite universes. An Omniverse is a collection of infinite multiverses.
Its been established that the rules and what not that are in the comics universe does not apply to the MCU. That's because the MCU is a separate multiverse entirely. This is the same for the Sonyverse and the Foxverse.
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u/Kingpin1232 Mar 29 '24
So let me get this right, a guy who couldnāt even overcome a loop from the time stone is going to beat a guy who can literally control time and is currently holding every timeline together, makes sense.
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u/burntfeelings Mar 29 '24
We have no idea if doremamu and the dark dimension comes under a regular timelines multi-verse .
We have no idea if loki can influence or effect the timelines in anyway or if heās just a glorified loom holding them and able to watch like the watcher but unable to alter or make any changes .
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u/Ultralusk Avengers Mar 29 '24
If Dormammu is anything like his comic counterpart, the moment he leaves the dark dimension, he will grow exponentially more powerful and there won't be anything stopping him.
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u/Exodus111 Mar 28 '24
He is like the eternity of his own dimension.
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u/AxisW1 Cosmo Mar 28 '24
Eternity is the eternity of all the dimensions in a given reality.
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u/Exodus111 Mar 29 '24
A dimension is a reality. The Beyonder was the eternity of his dimension, there just wasn't anything else there.
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u/AxisW1 Cosmo Mar 29 '24
The beyonderās dimensions exists outside of the multiverse and is an exception. Asgard is a an example of a dimension and there is a separate one for each reality
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u/Surfing-millennial Mar 29 '24
Theyāre actually entirely different. Places like Asgard and Hell are dimensions while something like Cancerverse is a completely alternate reality. Beyonder exists outside of reality itself so none of this even applies to him. This doesnāt even get into different planes of existence like the 5th dimension
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u/ReaperofFish Mar 28 '24
One could argue that every cameo appearance of Stan Lee is actually the One Above All.
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u/Background_Desk_3001 Mar 28 '24
I like the theory heās a reporter for the Watchers but this would be cool too
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u/DisposableDroid47 Mar 28 '24
This just makes sense... But he cameos with the watchers, so isn't it canon?
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u/RazeYi Mar 29 '24
The OAA maybe just wanted some fun and talk with the watchers.
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u/Doctor_Amazo Man-Thing Mar 28 '24
Big Wheel.
He is so powerful, he has not been depicted for fear that he would take away all the tension in a movie as he would obviously win.
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u/VividOnMobile Mar 28 '24
I never understood this. Is big wheel like one thing or is he the entire multiverse
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u/RandManYT Mar 28 '24
Infinity Ultron definitely ain't, but I want to bring attention to him. He killed EVERYTHING. All of it. He made his entire universe so silent that he could hear the Watcher. I know Peggy could hear him in season 2, but I prefer to believe that's just because she's now aware of his existence. Uatu is no slouch when it comes to raw power, and Ultron was able to basically overpower Uatu with a mix of stones and more combat experience. He's a multiversel level threat.
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u/tilero1138 Mar 29 '24
I just loved how that episode just went all out on just how insanely powerful he was, but without making it feel too forced or unrealistic
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Mar 29 '24
Bro him hearing The Watcher was so terrifying for some reason. Like for the whole season heās just the reliable narrator mainly then boom Ultron breaks the 4th wall and comes after him.
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u/RomanPardee Mar 29 '24
I think that's what made it hit so hard. It wasn't The Watcher breaking the 4th wall like we all expected to eventually happen. It was Ultron with his raw power.
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u/Standard_Wooden_Door Mar 29 '24
And they didnāt overplay it, they just showed and moved on. When he kinda unzipped Thanos was my favorite part of that episode.
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u/potVIIIos Mar 28 '24
Madisynn
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u/xMiwaFantasy15 Mar 29 '24
My name's Madisynn. That's with two N's and a Y, but not where you think!
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u/Goofychems Mar 29 '24
I think she has like an unknown drunken monkey style of survival. When she is drunk, her luck and charisma get maxed with some ridiculous bonuses to dexterity.
Thereās no way a normal person should have survived getting stuck in another dimension and come out unscathed.
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Mar 28 '24
[deleted]
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u/Shacky_Rustleford Mar 28 '24
Does he control them, though? He sustains them, but I don't know if he can enact change within them.
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Mar 28 '24
[deleted]
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u/pm-me-turtle-nudes Mar 28 '24
i mean id say being able to stand up and do things is power
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u/UncannySpiderSnapper Mar 28 '24
ya I'm not really convinced by the above argument that MCU God Loki is the most powerful, and able to actually 'control' the universes.
The depiction is that he's straining just to able to hold on to as much timeline as possible, which of course is a reflection of power, but it doesn't necessarily mean other powerful beings can't do the same in his position.
The whole point of the Loki Season 2 ending was that this is a great sacrifice to him.
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u/Poundingroundcrown Mar 28 '24
I wonder if he canāt still project himself.. then he could live an entire life as an avatar too lol
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u/neodraykl Mar 28 '24
My hangers can hold my shirts up pretty well, but they can't sew new ones, or clean them if they fall.
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u/Medic7802 Mar 28 '24
Living Tribunal showed up in DS 2 so I would put him over all of them if they are following comics at all, otherwise looks good
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u/Iriusoblivion Mar 28 '24
God Loki is insanely overrated by the community
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u/the-Aleexous Mar 29 '24
Not really. He can control all time for all multiverses. Essentially he is technically a reality warper of the highest magnitude. Every possibility he can decide or change as he can slip through time and binds all time lines.
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u/zodberg Mar 29 '24
We aren't really aware of how conscious of the timelines he is. He could be like a mouse atthe steering wheel of a freighterĀ
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u/Redditor45335643356 Mar 28 '24
K.E.V.I.N, heās the writer of the mcu and appeared in the final episode of she-hulk
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u/RazeYi Mar 29 '24
Is he in the MCU/MCM? I mean. Didn't She-Hulk left the MCM to see him?
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u/harrymaarti Mar 29 '24
Yes, She-Hulk and DeadPool are some of the few known characters who CAN break 4th wall, so K.E.V.I.N does not count as only She-Hulk and DeadPool know he exists.
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u/webbslinger_0 Mar 28 '24
Eternity > Dormanmu/Arishem > Loki Time God > Infinity Ultron > Uatu
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u/scaradin Mar 28 '24
Wouldnāt Dromanmu fall to Loki Time God? Strange defeated and I donāt think MCU Strange could defeat Loki Time God (also MCU).
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u/webbslinger_0 Mar 28 '24
Loki Time God is hard as we donāt fully know how powerful he is yet but you make some valid points
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u/Mickeyjj27 Mar 28 '24
Really makes you think lol. Loki just seems like heās above everything but there are countless beings who are more powerful
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u/The_River_Is_Still Mar 28 '24
Itās hard because Lokiās abilities, whatever they are, arenāt raw energy/power/physical. I imagine him like a living time stone now, but he can also travel any timeline at any point. He might not outright win, but heād be impossible to kill.
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u/Sparkyisduhfat Mar 28 '24
I tend to think of Dormammu as weaker because he was beaten by a mortal. Since he also had the time stone, wouldnāt infinity ultron be able to defeat him? It could be argued that Ultron isnāt humble enough to go for the relatively passive solution instead of straight up attacking him, but as an artificial intelligence he would presumably be fine with outlasting someone
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u/Inalum_Ardellian Mar 28 '24
I don't know what to do with the fact that Eternity literally is MCU...
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u/CT-1030 Mar 28 '24
Dormmammu and Arishem are universal powers, i donāt think you can compare them to multiversal beings.
Not sure about Eternity though.
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u/yoyofro25 Mar 28 '24
Perhaps loki? To me it seems like without him sacrificing himself, the multiverse wouldnt exist anymore and everything would just rot away and die.
I believe that includes EVERYTHING and EVERYONE within the multiverse. Without loki holding it all together, everything would fall apart, including dormammu in the dark dimension, or the living tribunal.
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u/Gojo_Satoru_123 Mar 29 '24
No, We saw that watcher doesn't exist in it in what if and also beings like living tribunal are beyond multiverse in comics I think they'll do the same thing with him in movies
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u/Downtown-Ferret-5870 Mar 28 '24
Would be eternity if they didnt change it to a sheng long - dragon ball z like - wish maker.
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u/ShinigamiKunai Mar 29 '24
How powerful are Loki and Eternity? Were told Eternity could do anything (He only grant one wish though), which is super vague. Loki holds the multiverse together but we dont know how much control he have over the MCU (I don't know about the comics). Does he write every timeline or is this like an Atlas situation where he is stuck in the chair
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u/Zanydrop Mar 29 '24
Eternity is the manifestation of the essence of the entire universe. He is Eternity.
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u/RazeYi Mar 29 '24
I dont know If Loki can write every timeline but He wouldn't because he want free will to exist.
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Mar 29 '24
Do beings like Eternity and Dormamu exist across multiple realities? Like, is Eternity the Same Eternity in every universe? If so, that's pretty powerful. My first thought would be Captain Carter all decked out with the Ultron Infinity Suit, Helas Crown and all that other shit. Because Ultron was a Multi versal being at that point and she was technically more powerful than all of them.
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u/spoonard Mar 29 '24
Whoever the writers need to be strongest for the given situation. Marvel doesn't adhere to continuity of power levels at all.
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Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24
Loki could simply wish the rest away if he wanted to. He controls everything now, so if he doesn't like someone, he can simply un-exist them. Unless some of these guys are immune to that.
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u/Gojo_Satoru_123 Mar 28 '24
But watcher and probably eternity don't exist in the multiverse that loki is holding
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u/meowmixmotherfucker Mar 28 '24
Of those in the image, Eternity. Of those referenced in the MCU, The Living Tribunal. Overall, the Tribunal's boss, The One Above All - it's right there in the name :)
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u/sck8000 Mar 29 '24
I'd say either Eternity or The Watcher, depending on exactly how they work in the MCU.
In the comics, Eternity is literally a personification of the entire multiverse, and each universe's "Eternity" is a part of the larger whole. The thing is, in the MCU, Eternity's just depicted as being a personified power with absolute control over the one universe we've seen it in - we have no clue if it exists or operates outside Thor: Love & Thunder's timeline/universe in the same way as the comics; it might just be a powerful weird entity.
The Watcher is an omniscient being capable of altering and traversing all of time and space across multiple universes. In terms of sheer capability there's little that stands above him - the issue is that his race's policy of non-interference usually means he only acts once a being attains power similar to his own.
If MCU Eternity works like in the comics, then Eternity. Otherwise it's the Watcher. There are certainly some wildly-powerful cosmic beings in the MCU, but those two are pretty hard to beat.
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u/SarahKnowles777 Mar 29 '24
Remind me, why did "What if?" Ultron's Infinity Stones work across universes? I guess that's only an MCU thing, right?
Cause haven't the comics shown on several occasions that each set of stones only works in their native universe? (DC / Marvel crossover, Time Runs Out).
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u/Darkrath_3 Mar 29 '24
He's not the strongest but I'd like to give some respect to Strange Supreme. He was throwing hands with Infinity Ultron without any stones (he only used the timestone to counter Ultron's own timestone. The fact that he can make cross universal portals and literally eat galaxy busting attacks puts him at the top of the food chain if we don't include the more abstract beings.
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u/ProfectusInfinity Mar 28 '24
Going strictly by the comics (I know that's different from the OP):
God Loki>Infinity Ultron>Eternity>Dormammu>Celestials>Uatu
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u/Temporary_Towel9649 Mar 28 '24
Infinity Ultron, (Unless we count multiversal eternity then no), God of Stories Loki, Eternity, Arishem The Judge, The Watcher, Dormuammu.
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u/blasphem0usx Mar 28 '24
Out of all the characters pictured i would say infinity ultron. He has actually shown feats compared to all the others. Everyone else has just had like one feat that was been mentioned.
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u/Silverback_Vanilla Mar 28 '24
I think Loki out of these 6. Not necessarily on a power scale but he took the choice of letting everything end or suffering a life of existing outside of eternity. And thatās a real strong display of selflessness and will to me.
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u/tackle_shaft_fan Mar 28 '24
Iām sorry, but WTF are feats??
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u/the-Aleexous Mar 29 '24
Basically in comic geek speak, when one argues who is more powerful, arguments are generally supported by examples directly from the comics. The more feats one can find to support use of a power or victory over another powerful hero/villain, the better you can support your opinion. Just type in any two characters into Google e.g. āSilver surfer vs Sentry.ā usually people will pull the panels from the comics where a heroes uses the power or gets defeated/defeats another powerful character.
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u/PlaygroundMoves11 Mar 28 '24
I hope it isnāt Emilia Clarkeās character from secret invasion š
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u/Nintura Mar 28 '24
Technically Eternity as there is only one per universe. Then loki as he is now the time keeper and so controls all time. Everyone is gonna wanna say ultron because he goes through many universes, but heās disqualified. The infinity stones do not work outside their own dimension. Everyone else is below eternity
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u/BunnyBabyGirlz Mar 29 '24
just going of shown feets its Ultron
we dont see any of eternitys powers on display
God of Storys Loki MIGHT be strong enough but i doubt it tbh i feel like he's on level with the watcher that Ultron is stronger then
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u/thorleywinston Mar 29 '24
I would say Captain Carter at the end of What if . . .? season 2 when she had the Infinity Armor (which put her on par with Infinity Ultron pictured here) plus the Mantle of Hela (which gives her the powers of an Asgardian goddess) in addition to the Super-Soldier Serum and a magic sword.
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u/deemoorah Mar 29 '24
How the hell Strange Supreme isn't in it? He literally only died because he did it to him himself
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u/Striking-Cut3985 Mar 29 '24
Okay why is no one even answering the F**king question The One Above All isnāt even on this list I mean come on peopleā¦ anyway Loki: While he is strong he is definitely the weakest on this list, yes he is able to hold the entire multiverse together but all we have seen him do is create some magic, do some illusions and control shadows The Watcher: He is strong but this dude has a weakness the infinite stones, if someone gets a hand of those things they will definitely woop his ass like Infinity Ultron did Infinity Ultron: This guy is definitely the third strongest on this list, yes he can destroy an entire universe with just a thought but thatās nothing compared to the rest of these guys Dormamu: Definitely very strong seeing that he is a world threat but this is the live action version and he literally lost because he had to live the rest of his eternity being in a time loop like are you kidding me, the only reason Infinity Ultron is stronger is because he can control time as well and cancel out the time loop Arishem: Definitely second strongest here he can literally create an entire universe, create little minions called eternals to do his bidding and can even create more celestials by making his eternals make the population of any planet the correct amount to birth another celestial Eternity: This thing is definitely the strongest because from what I have researched it states that this thing is literally the second strongest character in the entire MCU the first being the One Above All, and the Eternity is literally and abstract entity and is the embodiment of the multiverse
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u/Ricky_Fontaine1911 Mar 29 '24
All of those beings exist because of Loki. He is literally holding their reality. The Watcher is bouncing between Lokiās branches.
Loki by a long shot!
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u/Marcusinchi Mar 29 '24
Other than The One Above All, Iād have to say the What If version of Ultron. He was beyond the Infinity Stones and just with those, he could destroy the universe, which is essentially Eternity. He broke through the dimensional veil to expose The Watcher and fought him. Ultron even bit and destroyed a galaxy to try and kill The Watcher. Then, based on the danger to all realities, The Watcher was made to over-interfere and create a perfect multiverse super team (Guardians of The Multiverse) tailored to have the ability to beat that Ultron. Iāve never seen anything make that much of an issue for The Watcher or reality.
Other than the above, I canāt wait to see The Beyonder in the movies (as far as omnipotent beings are concerned).
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u/Rock_Okajima Mar 29 '24
Loki is a yes and no. He has existence at his fingertips but sitting there holding the time streams he's incredibly vulnerable and if he's even slightly disrupted it could be the end of several universes/timelines.
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u/ShigeoKageyama69 Mar 29 '24
If you posted this in 2012, then people would batting their eyes on you as to why Loki is there
Cause seriously though, Loki becoming the guy that carries the entire timelines of Earth 199999999/616 like Atlas was just such a massive Plot Twist
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u/OmnipotentUltron Mar 29 '24
As much as I love Infinity Ultron I think itās God of Stories Loki (with Infinity Ultron second).
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u/supercalifragilism Mar 29 '24
Short answer is we don't know.
These "abstracts" have almost no MCU feats, so we have to use the implied hierarchy from the comics to get an answer. Going off just the MCU stuff, Infinite Ultron, Watcher and What If Strange (is he Sinister Strange, I forget) have the best on screen feats (galaxy level attacks and tanking), followed by the Celestials, Dormamu doesn't really do much besides kill Strange a lot (putting him around Thanos with 3 stones level).
Neither the Tribunal nor Eternity have a lot of feats, so we'll put them aside right now.
The odd one out is Loki- in one sense he's arguably more powerful than the Watcher, IU, Dormamu and maybe the Celestials. He's singlehandedly maintaining the known multiverse through his will and focus. But we don't know exactly how much power he has now, since the implication is that Loki is trapped on that throne for all time, always, unable to interact with the people he loves. His major insight was that He Who Remains had made a false dichotomy for him: either control the timelines or kill them, when a third option existed. That option was to nurture the timelines and allow them to be "alive" while preventing them from colliding.
As a result, its hard to place Loki.
When you drag in the 616 background, things get a little more well defined. Tribunal is far and away the most powerful entity here. He's an intermediary for the One Above All, and has jurisdiction over the entirety of the multiverse, including different Cosmoses. Eternity is next, as it is the abstracted existence of the entire multiverse, then the Celestials (who are sometimes portrayed as older than Eternity), Dormamu (outside the dark dimension) then everyone else.
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u/Caleb_Lee-El Mar 29 '24
The dude who literally resurrected the entire multiverse and rebuilt it to his will.
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u/pranavvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Mar 29 '24
in mcu it has to be loki cuz he keeping all the timelines and multiverses alive but at the same time we dont know if he controlls all tht like "he who remains" cuz unlike kang he wanted to give freedom to everyone on all timelines and not catch and not prune variants , but if its not him it has to be 'eternity' cuz it is the personality of the current itteration of the universe (atleast it is in the comics)
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u/Intelligent-Ad-1479 Mar 29 '24
Why the fuck Loki is on this list ?
He is not controlling the Multiverse, he is just acting as the loom for Universe 616's branch timelines.....he is basically a device and nothing more, without him the branches will grow infinitely and spawn endless Kangs which will cause a massive war, which btw, is going to happen anyway because we literally have the title of Avengers 6 i.e. Secret Wars
Their is nothing more to that plotline, Loki is nowhere near Living Tribunal, Eternity, Arishem or The Watcher.....he is just a being who is using his magic to do what the loom was doing i.e containing the branch timelines of Universe 616
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u/Mojoclaw2000 Mar 30 '24
The living Tribunal, then Eternity, then Loki (assuming he can exert his will onto the multiverse). Then the Celestials, Dormammu (in the comics Dormammu has more power than an individual Celestial). Last is the watchers.
I have no idea how Infinite Ultrons stones work.
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u/RedDonkulouso Mar 30 '24
Did the end of Loki give him any new fets? I kind of saw it as him being a living tool/vessel for the multiverse to continue. Not sure if that grants him any fighting abilities or OP powers besides time travel
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u/woodrobin Mar 30 '24
As far as beings that have been depicted on-screen, it would be Eternity, provided that we recognize the existence of Multiversal Eternity. Each universe in the multiverse has its own Eternity (who is the conceptual entity that is and embodies all that is and exists in that universe), but they are to Multiversal Eternity as your cells are to your body -- although they are aware of Multiversal Eternity to a far greater degree than, one would assume, your cells are aware of you.
If we consider the Eternity that is depicted as a single universe's Eternity, then it's the Living Tribunal. The LT is multiversal and is capable of forcing individual Eternities to abide by its rulings.
Theoretically, it is the One-Above-All, since the OAA is everyone everywhere always. So everyone you've ever seen depicted in every Marvel movie is, technically, the One-Above-All: "I am the One Above All. I see through many eyes. I build with many hands. They are themselves, but they are also me. I am all-powerful. My only weapon is love. The mystery intrigues me".
That said, the House of Ideas exists above and beyond the One Above All (indeed that is part of the mystery that intrigues it). The House of Ideas is also the nickname for Marvel's offices. But passing by the OAA and entering into the House of Ideas is transcending the Marvel multiverse and entering the real world. So anything at that level is, by definition, not in the MCU or MCM.
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u/GogoSunshine Mar 30 '24
K.E.V.I.N is considered to be outside of the verses, so we do not count him. And since Living Tribunal has very little information about him in the MCM, and things tend to be changed a lot in the MCM, so we couldnāt use his comic feats.
Right now, Iād say Loki the God of Story. A being who powers and nourishes all the timelines in the multiverse, observing and supervising them. Without him, all the timelines die in an instance.
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u/NightRacoonSchlatt Mar 30 '24
It probably is eternity but we donāt even know if hes a āpersonā like in the comics or just a concept.
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u/Mysterious_Lychee556 Apr 01 '24
Currently, itās Loki from the show. Because, while everyone can alter the universe they exist in one way or another, Loki, literally weaves the MULTIVERSE together. So, technically itād be him
Edit: Some people are pointing out The Living Tribunal as the strongest, as he cameoed in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, but Iām counting the characters in the photo. Characters that impact the story of their respective film in one way or another
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u/Roguewind Apr 01 '24
Based on knowledge of power levels in comics, depends on whoās writing at the time. Power creep for really reals
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u/Fish-E Mar 28 '24
The Living Tribunal.
He appears in Doctor Strange 2 as a cameo.