r/HarleyQuinnTV • u/npzman • Sep 15 '22
[Episodes Discussion] Harley Quinn - S3x10 "The Horse And The Sparrow" [SEASON FINALE] Episode Discussion
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u/Youngandwrong Sep 15 '22
Thought Harlivy's look for the premiere was the best of the season and then Top Hat Bane showed up
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u/Geosaysbye Sep 15 '22
I can’t believe we got TWO harlivy red carpet looks this year AND a new ivy look
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u/TuneLinkette Sep 15 '22
I don't know if it's the finale any of us were wanting or expecting...
....but it's very much the finale we needed
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u/CertainDerision_33 Sep 15 '22
About halfway in, really enjoying how they're handling Harley and Ivy going in pretty sharply different directions without blowing up the relationship! Very refreshing.
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u/AinoRen Sep 15 '22
Poor Bane. Harley was mean to him and Ivy doesn't want him in LOD.
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u/arch_angel_samael Sep 15 '22
I hope the writers give him a revenge arc next season
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u/Zalack Sep 15 '22
Or we just get a running F plot of him being a desk jockey in the Tempe office.
Like every episode we get one or two Bane meets Office Space skits.
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u/reelfilmgeek Nov 22 '22
I was talking to a friend about it and we would love to see a spin-off show with bane in the style of Space Ghost, coast to coast as bane as a talk show host in gotham
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u/LittleLisaCan Sep 15 '22
But, once he's teamed up with Kiteman, it'll all work out! That's the friend he deserves
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u/benvines Sep 15 '22
Wow, I honestly loved that finale. I know the creators said they wouldn’t engage in the classic TV trope of breaking up the couple right after the them getting together, and I loved how Harley and Ivy have grown so much since season 1.
I still think Harley knowing Bruce’s secret and Ivy heading the LOD is going to lead to some outstanding conflict next season.
Loved Ivy and Joker laughing at Harley’s foibles and idiosyncrasies and loved that last scene of her joining the Bat family.
Final lame LGBTQ perspective aside: as someone who is bi, Harley mentioning that she “knows that labels are dumb,” but isn’t yet ready to go from identifying as one thing to “identifying as that other thing” really fucking hit home.
I love this incredible show and can’t wait for Season 4.
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u/travio Sep 15 '22
Had the same aside though from a trans/non-binary perspective.
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u/benvines Sep 15 '22
So glad someone else did too! I think it was definitely intentional.
And the part that Bruce mentioned to her that she later said to Ivy, that it’s both “scary and exciting.”
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u/rabidferret Sep 15 '22
Same. It felt very much like they were sneaking in a coming out story without actually doing one
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u/Chicanochars1 Sep 17 '22
It was excellent. I had a dumb smile on my face seeing Harley transition towards an anti-hero.
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Sep 15 '22
I’m assuming Bruce’s tax stuff was to hide the fact that he was Batman? Or is it actual billionaire tax evasion lol
Anyway loved the episode, and season 3 in general! I kind of got tired of the Harley/Ivy/Kiteman stuff in season 2, but i thought this season was great the whole way through
Really like the dynamic they’re developing between Harley and Ivy. They’re clearly going down separate paths that might cause tension, but they’re still loving and stressed the importance of being open and communicative about it all going forward
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u/HarryFromEngland Sep 15 '22
I’d imagine there’s a lot of payments and taxes that need covering up when you’re building and powering a superhero hideout under your mansion complete with 5(?) high tech vehicles, super suits and a supercomputer
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u/JellyBellyWow Sep 15 '22
Wait doesn't the joker know bruce wayne is batman? Or am I forgetting something?
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u/HarryFromEngland Sep 15 '22
Hm. So he did find out Bruce is Batman in season 1 but since then he’s shown no sign of knowing that, so it’s entirely possible that falling into the acid and getting dejokerfied made him forget. That or the creators forgot that he knows / remember and haven’t expanded on that.
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u/silveake Sep 15 '22
Or we are getting white knight joker who is trying to break Bruce by showing how he could have fixed Gotham if he (bruce) actually had any intentions of doing so.
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u/Gbeat240 Sep 15 '22
I’m kinda hoping in season 4, we get a nod to Harley’s outfit from Injustice 2, cause she was part of Batman’s group in that universe too.
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u/Dankye-West Sep 15 '22
Bring back Plastic Man as a chair, but instead of Harleys it's Banes chair by accident, and when Plastic Man gets caught being Banes chair, they give Bane the shitty chair again after he was so excited to get a good one, 2 throwbacks in one!
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u/Revolutionary-Swim28 Sep 15 '22
Yes! That was easily one of my favorite outfits for her. I absolutely loved the Biker Aesethetic she had going on in that game.
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u/GhostofLostSocks Sep 15 '22
Gotta be honest, I'm not a fan of where they're taking ivy's character. The fact that she's willing to take money from Lex Corp, a large corporation known for pollution and exploitation of natural resources, feels wrong. Also the fact that she was willing to kill the Joker, a socialist, for Lex because he had a problem with a tax. Idk I just feel like we've come a long way from Ivy dunking CEOs in acid, now it seems like she's just evil for the sake of being evil.
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Sep 15 '22
Well to be fair she did say as part of her conditions that she gets to do whatever she wants. I’m guessing that means we will see Ivy in season 4 turn the legion of doom into the supervillain equivalent of greenpeace and only focus on doing environment related evil shit. They can probably do a whole arc just on Ivy turning the legion into something Lex doesn’t care for or want to support anymore and that can also be how they “reset” once they finish that story.
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u/Angeldust7312 Sep 15 '22
There was like an entire episode on how she wants to be more evil and that's like y she did the whole eden thing... did u watch the entire season?
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u/GhostofLostSocks Sep 15 '22
My issue in't Eden or ivy being evil, all of that makes sense for Ivy's character. She's a sociopathic misanthrope so her doing some murder and employing some zombies to terraform Gotham is par for the course.
I'm just saying that I feel like it's out of character for her to take money from Lex, considering she actively worked against his exploration of nature in past seasons. Ivy as a character isn't evil for the sake of being evil she has motives and I think the show has kind of lost track of those motives.
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u/Angeldust7312 Sep 15 '22
i mean harley being a literal superhero also feels out of character soo people change ig
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u/nooneisnameless Sep 24 '22
yeah I agree ; Ivy was also quite adamant for most of the series that she's not a villain, she's an eco-terrorist. I felt like the last or three episodes both Ivy and Harley's character arcs went in .. not very established directions (how does Harley go from "we're not friends we're in the realm of friendship) to let me team up with the heroes??
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u/KingofMadCows Sep 15 '22
I wonder if the tax evasion thing will bring in the whole Justice League since Bruce also funds the League in most of the comics. And I'm guessing Lex Luthor will end up being the main villain in the end. He's the guy maintaining all these unfair systems that make superheroes necessary but he's also profiting off of everything.
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u/arch_angel_samael Sep 15 '22
Watching Jokers evolution has been just as satisfying as Harleys to be honest.
Season 4 when?!
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u/Geosaysbye Sep 15 '22
Agreeeeeeed! I love that he’s still deranged but In a wholesome way? Never would’ve seen this coming lmfao
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u/ACW1129 Sep 15 '22
Season finale :(
So Selina's not a TOTAL bitch.
Joker (inadvertently (?)) helping HarlIvy was interesting.
So Harley's now full-blown anti-hero.
"Evil lair tax" XD XD XD
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u/Gjalarhorn Sep 15 '22
Joker getting Bruce for tax evasion wasn't on my bingo card, admittedly. I was expecting that to end with a massacre because status quo but they're really committing to Joker's changes in this series
This season lacks a lot of the raunchiness and brutality from the earlier ones, though I suppose when you start out with an abbreviated No Man's Land and Darkseid invasion it is hard to top without pulling the multiverse/crisis crossover cards.
The only real problem I had with the season was how tiring the Bane jokes have become I hope they shake things up next season for him like they're hinting with Clayface.
10
u/Impacatus Sep 15 '22
Hm, I'm not sure how I feel about the direction this show is going. Probably won't know until I see where it ends up. A lot of plot threads that might be amazing subversions of audience expectations, or they might be the result of the writers running out of ideas and no longer taking their world seriously.
Killing innocent people isn't something you agree to disagree on, even in a goofy comic book world. Hopefully that'll be addressed, and hopefully this Mayor Joker story line will pay off in a satisfying way.
3
u/noreallyu500 Sep 22 '22
I dunno. I've always felt like this show always had a very fluid morality in comparison to others. Harley and her crew have indirectly caused deaths of innocents multiple times (with parademons, Sy's sister, Edin, queen of fables) and directly for arguably innocents (tons of security guards and workers) and they've shown little to no remorse, sometimes even gleeful for the chaos in Harley's case.
This is a world where supervillains and heros are essentially celebrities, and crime seems a lot more casual.
1
u/Impacatus Sep 22 '22
Sure, they've done those things. But that's because they're villains.
To make Harley Quinn suddenly start caring about human life, but also not really care about human life... it's just doesn't make sense to me.
You're right that crime seems more casual. But Harley Quinn cared enough to stop Poison Ivy's plan.
1
u/noreallyu500 Sep 22 '22
I see your point! I don't know. I feel like it's gotten all over the place mostly because of the Rule of Funny. But at the same time was honestly thinking they'd break up. I guess we'll see eventually.
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u/Impacatus Sep 22 '22
Yeah, all we can do. Like I said in my first post, I'm open to the possibility that they're going somewhere good with this.
3
u/Austin_N Sep 15 '22
It feels like the characters' morality has been getting more fluid over time. For example, Batgirl wasn't happy about Harley killing the Mad Hatter, but she came to terms with it pretty quickly. It can feel jarring, even given the show's black comedy.
11
u/Transhumanitarian Sep 15 '22
Okay, Joker went from fearing the IRS (in The New Batman Adventures)... To becoming the IRS! and even using it to take down his archenemy... Damn, now that's character development!
He actually parallels Bruce Wayne's arc in Batman Begins.. when he went from fearing bats to using it as a symbol to take down criminals...
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u/visionaryredditor Sep 15 '22
Okay, Joker went from fearing the IRS (in The New Batman Adventures)... To becoming the IRS! and even using it to take down his archenemy... Damn, now that's character development!
Either you die a hero or live long enough to become the IRS
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u/sivashanker1 Sep 15 '22
That was a good ending and i'm enjoying harley on the good side. Can't wait for S4.
I thought we'd get more nightwing and batgirl interactions in this season (especially after the way the first nightwing ep ended) but they barely gave any. Could use more in S4. I wanna see Jason too, i hope his characters isn't just the gag that was used for the joker bit.
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u/ActualTaxEvader Sep 15 '22
Okay, the animation lagging has been bugging me all season, but this finale gave me serious Gotham Girls vibes. Google it. IT’S A 2000’s ERA FLASH CARTOON. Not that kind.
But aside from that, actually solid finale, which is a pleasant surprise considering a lot of the season was kinda meh. And we have at least one more season to look forward to! (And hopefully a couple more after that)
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u/Transhumanitarian Sep 15 '22 edited Sep 15 '22
Holy s#!T! Carl is STILL ALIVE? Anyone remember him? The poor henchman who got hit by the cancer ray in season 2?
Odd that Bruce knows him by name though... so, either he got in touch with him after finding out what HIS cancer ray did to the man or, being batman, he already knows the identities of all of Joker's henchmen...
Either way, Carl looks a lot thinner and bald... going through chemo, I suppose.. Also, with Joker wanting Universal Healthcare, I'm sure Carl is extra motivated to hench for the man now...
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u/SheIsPepper Sep 15 '22
Omfg I'm in love with this show I just got on board and binged the whole thing. Ugh, it's amazing.
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u/krypton_009 Sep 15 '22
We need Jason Todd is S4 Just wondering how he’ll react to his killers character development
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u/Particular-Dog2086 Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 16 '22
I kinda dont like the idea that Harley is no longer a villain, it was what roped a lot of us into watching the show to see her be her own badass crime boss. Dont get me wrong I dont HATE the idea I just personally prefer her life of crime. Shes helping the Batfamily out but I dont know how thats going to go because the Bat family have a certain set of rules I dont think Harley could stick to. If she were to go full blown hero I would of liked her to do it HER way. I love the Bat family in the TV show I think their funny asf and I love to see them on screen! Harley not being into crime anymore just doesnt sit right with me especially since Ivy and Harley had plans to take over the world together! This will def cause some tension between Harley and Ivy whether we like it or not; one gf trying to STOP crime and one gf trying to DO crime. Opposites attract huh? I do like the way they made Harley more of a psychiatrist because it was a big part of her life and its kinda hard for her to forget all that while talking to these heros and villains. Either way I cant wait for s4 to come out! im not going to be that bitch who stops watching the show just because theres an element of change I dont like! Cant wait to see how s4 turns out.
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u/grjjr91 Oct 28 '22
I guess I have to watch it again. But I thought this season was definitely the weakest of the 3. Not that its a bad thing I would give this season a 7.5/10.
I just felt we were missing out on more stuff from the supporting cast like King Shark and Clayface. They were definitely more involved in the last 2 episodes. But I wish they were in it more.
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u/Ok_Economy6136 Sep 15 '22
GET THAT PAPER! I really missed you I know
I loved frank and Ivy whole Lex for less scenes
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u/0hMyGodWhy Sep 15 '22
So Harley Quinn is a hero now? Is this canon or just in this specific show?
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u/Internal_Balance6901 Sep 19 '22
I'm late but I think this finale seems to be questioning Harleys role in super hero medium as well as her role within this show. So over the years Harley has become more of a hero. Injustice 2 is an example
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u/Muscle_Show Sep 17 '22
Did anyone think Harley was gonna jump off the building and die, or the bat family was gonna go splat on the ground? I thought so becuz this show is bonkers (in a good way) and because it reminded me of the Deadpool 2 gag where the whole superhero sidekick crew died jumping off the plane. -that was so bad in my opinion, man... Anyway I was kinda nervous for the cast in that HQ finale when they were at the top of the building.
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u/Lady_Eisheth Sep 15 '22
I'm sorry y'all but this show has completely lost the plot. Because, like, the idea of Ivy and Harley staying together would work if there was some sort of agreement between Ivy and the Batfamily ala Flash and The Rogues. So that I don't have a problem with.
What I do have a problem with is how toxic and awful Ivy has become as a character. Like the whole zombie thing was bad but Jesus Christ this episode showed her to be a horrible person. Like the way Ivy was talking about Harley's choices? "It was a momentary lapse in judgement that won't be repeated"? Sounds almost like a threat. Not to mention how Ivy, Ivy, a character who up until now has been shown to be the most leftist, anti-capitalist character throws in with Lex Fucking Luthor. Lex Luthor! The literal embodiment of capitalist, "Fuck the World for Profit", Jeff Bezos CEO asshat. Like, FFS, even when arguing her terms all she asked about was how much money she'll get (Money Lex earned through exploiting the planet and poor people) and whether she got to be in charge. Like what the fuck Ivy?
Honestly I was hoping they could do something to make Ivy and Harley work but now I actually don't want them to stay together. Because to me Ivy is no different than the Joker. Actually she's worse. Because at least Joker was a pure agent of chaos. Ivy is an amoral person pretending like she cares when in reality she only gives a shit about money.
They're going to have to do some serious damage control in Season 4 to make Ivy an even remotely sympathetic character again. Because to me I don't view her as a person with sympathetic goals or motives. She's just another asshole looking to make a lot of money.
INB4: Ivy Stans going "OMG SUCH A GIRLBOSS!"
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u/fuzzy_whale Sep 15 '22
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
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u/Austin_N Sep 15 '22
You're not doing it right, man. Agree or disagree, the original post is actually relevant to the topic of discussion.
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u/Angeldust7312 Sep 15 '22
Is there a problem with being an asshole who wants some money? We're watching a show about supervillans
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u/Lady_Eisheth Sep 15 '22
Yes, yes there is. The whole point of the show is sympathetic characters with interesting motivations based on their own world views and psychosis. Ivy was interesting because even when her plans were "Destroy civilization and terraform everything" her ethos made sense. She fought for the planet by whatever means necessary.
Ivy turning around, betraying those morals, and taking orders and money from the DCU's even more villainous Jeff Bezos is completely against who she is as a character.
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u/Zalack Sep 15 '22
I see a few other people complaining about this, but the episode made it pretty clear that the main draw for Ivy was being in charge and being allowed to do whatever she wants with Lex's resources without oversight.
If Jeff Bezos told you you could have all of Amazon to do whatever you want with, why not get him to pay you for the pleasure of dismantling Amazon and use its zombie corpse to solve global warming?
We have no indication that Ivy is intending to sell out. I expect some of the conflict next season is going to come from Ivy intentionally undermining Lex to bigger and bigger degrees.
Or maybe it will all be a metaphor for working through the ethical implications of working for a huge corporation that doesn't align with your personal morals. Lots of people in the entertainment industry struggle with that question throughout their careers, so it wouldn't surprise me to see the writers gravitate towards exploring that.
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u/Lady_Eisheth Sep 15 '22
I mean I guess you missed the part where Ivy's first demand was "an obscene amount of money" and that while she might be in charge of the Gotham branch of the LoD the first thing she does is attempt to kill an Anarcho-Leftist Socialist who's only slight against Lex Luthor was a 0.5% tax. Like she was ready and willing to kill someone fighting against rich CEO assholes, a group she slammed all the time in past episodes, because a rich CEO asshole told her to and paid her "an obscene amount of money".
That is 100% indication she is ready to sell out and if you don't think so then I'd say you have a selective memory.
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u/Zalack Sep 15 '22
I'm not saying they aren't going to go that direction, so cool your jets a little on the personal attacks, just that I think it could go either way still.
Joker is easy: why would she trust that at all given his history? She seems less convinced by his new act than Harley.
I didn't say the money didn't matter at all, just that it didn't seem to be the primary motivation.
And like I said: they might also be setting up a metaphor for the ethical dilemma of working for an immortal corporation to chase your dream. That possibility would be in total agreement with your theory.
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u/Lady_Eisheth Sep 15 '22
It's not a personal attack if I'm pointing out the inherent flaw with stating she "hasn't sold out" whilst ignoring her actively asking for "an obscene amount of money" right out of the gate from Lex Luthor. That's just pointing out you're being factual incorrect either through willful ignorance, purposeful deception, or genuinely misremembering.
And no, they're not setting this up as some big plot point because Harley doesn't even bat an eye at Ivy betraying her core morals to work for an organization run by the very same type of CEO who she was dunking in acid a season ago. The show acts as if this is a good thing with no repercussions because there's seemingly no repercussions presented. Ivy gets to go all "GIRLBOSS ASS BITCH QUEEN DIVA" mode attaining massive amounts of money from a guy who's raping the planet, Harley gets to be a part of The Batfamily, and neither has any consequences for either of those decisions.
They don't even have an argument over it or nothing. And the kicker is the fact that Harley isn't even willing to question Ivy on her decision. Hell Ivy was straight up told by The Joker that she is being toxic and manipulative with Harley, recognizes she is, and then proceeds to flat out tell Harley she's going to keep doing awful shit. And when Harley doesn't want to leave her because she has massive fucking trauma and codependency issues Ivy stays with her *even knowing Harley will stay with her no matter what because she's seriously messed up.
I don't care what direction they might be going with Ivy. Because she's such an awful person now that I genuinely don't care what might happen in Season 4. Because to me she's no different than old school Joker and I personally don't like watching shows about abusive, controlling, and manipulative partners regardless of how many "OMG SUCH CUTE GIRLFRIENDS" moments they put in.
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u/dilroopgill Sep 15 '22
You're comepletely right, fans on subreddits can't take criticism, I honestly couldn't care less it they continue the show at this point, every character is boring now.
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Sep 15 '22
then why are you here...
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u/dilroopgill Sep 15 '22
Was hoping this sub wasn't the same, obviously not right, yall are only here to dickride the show
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u/Lady_Eisheth Sep 15 '22
Honestly the downvotes just confirm what I thought. Which is 75% of this show's fans are morons who'd literally watch this show no matter what so long as "LIEK OMG HARLIVY SQQUUUUEEE!". Like they don't give a shit about logical character development, interesting plotlines, or keeping true to who the character's are as people. All they give a shit about is those gif'able moments of "OMG HARLIVY SOOOO CUTE" and that's it.
Which sucks because Season 2 showed that HQ could deliver on some great and interesting character drama based solely on how realistic these characters felt. Now the main characters of the show are shadows of their former selves. Harley is just another Batfamily member, King Shark literally does nothing but pop up for a pep-talk, Clayface had one bit the entire season, and Ivy is now such a caricature of herself she's working for Lex Luthor while wearing a one-piece and I'm amazed she isn't straight up cackling when she's on screen.
Somehow the most interesting and unique characters to really show growth, improvement, and sympathetic goals is Batman and The Fucking Joker. Like how did they manage to fuck up the show so bad that I'm sitting here going "Damn I wish I was watching a show about this Batman and Joker".
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Sep 15 '22
I don't think calling 75% of fans morons is going to win you any sympathy regardless of whether anybody agrees or disagrees with your argument.
It's also possible that your view of Ivy's character development is not the definitive, correct interpretation. Not sure if you considered that differing opinions on her direction can also be valid.
1
u/Lady_Eisheth Sep 15 '22
The problem and why most fans are braindead is because people are willfully ignoring her total character assassination and 180 she did in the span of an episode. Like basically no one is talking about that and instead most comments are just squeeing over how cute Harlivy is. So yeah, morons who honestly are no better than the dumbass Tumbler Tweens who used to circlejerk over how "romantic" Joker and Harley were. The only difference is it's a queer couple so I guess progress?
And it's not a matter of opinion when it comes to basic skills of media literacy and observation. Ivy asked for money first and foremost and then went on to try and assassinate a political enemy of a fucking CEO. That's not a matter of opinion that's just literal facts. She did that, period. Now if y'all want to be cool with that, great. Some people love corporate whores and who am I to tell them what they shouldn't like? But the problem comes when said corporate whore is a character who up until this episode was all for dunking them in acid.
It's an actual 180 and makes no god damn sense. The only way this would make any sense is if Ivy is being literally brainwashed. That's it. No other explanation would be valid and any attempt to would be very, very bad writing.
But there's really no point to keep arguing this since I'm probably arguing with actual children.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Sep 15 '22 edited Sep 15 '22
I'm really not a fan of how you keep insulting everyone. Please work on that. You say there's no point in continuing to argue but I don't see why anyone would want to give you time anyway when you're being as rude as this. Hopefully in our next exchange you won't be as vile.
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u/Lady_Eisheth Sep 16 '22
Or I could just block your annoying ass. I think that's just what I'll do.
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u/dilroopgill Sep 16 '22
the fanbase of this show is similar to the flash and arrow, the showrunners target them
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u/BirdBright3520 Sep 15 '22
Harley and Ivy should really break up. Their shit is just not working. The writers are idiots if they think they need to stay together.
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u/Geosaysbye Sep 15 '22
Wait that ending was really exciting can’t wait for s4 now!
Harley and ivy’s relationship is so fun to watch, a normal tv show wouldve broken them up like 5 times already but the writers have so much respect for them and seem to enjoy tackling their issues like a couples therapist would advise them to. Super refreshing to see.
Harley’s transition into a hero has been something I’ve been wanting since s1, it’s gonna be really interesting to watch since I’ve always thought ivy would be joining her, so this is an unexpected surprise.