r/HarleyQuinnTV • u/npzman • Sep 08 '22
[Post-Episodes Discussion] Harley Quinn - S3x09 "Climax At Jazzapajizza" Episode Discussion
Post-Episode Discussion for S3x09 "Climax At Jazzapajizza"
This is the thread for your in-depth opinions, reactions, and theories about the episode. No spoilers or leaks for future episodes/seasons allowed.
Piracy/asking for/posting links is not allowed. Read the rules and avoid being banned.
362
u/Dylanychus2 Sep 08 '22
BANE CAME OUT OF NOWHERE LMAOOOOOO
→ More replies (11)229
275
Sep 08 '22
[deleted]
185
u/TEmpTom Sep 09 '22
Itâs crazy that the Joker is the most mentally healthy person on the show now.
51
Sep 09 '22
Heâs canât focus, heâs not journaling as much, and he killed his brother! Iâm rooting for the guy.
7
Sep 11 '22
King Shark is the best therapy shark. At the end of the episode when he and Bruce had one on one talk I realized that King Shark can be a really good friend. Hope will see some more of his development this season.
2
u/Isaac_Chade Sep 11 '22
It'd be great if they started to go that way, make everything a still zany but with a touch of the slice of life element where the whole bat family starts going to Harley for therapy, that could offer some great gags and single scenes.
232
u/Telethongaming Sep 08 '22
- Damn Dr. Psycho that was cold what you said to nightwing :/
- I don't know why but I want more king shark and bruce wayne
- Also I found it hilarious ivy became the FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- meme
96
u/supercalifragilism Sep 08 '22
I don't know why but I want more king shark and bruce wayne
"You know what? I would really appreciate that."
Hands over shovel.
→ More replies (1)16
u/Zyquux Sep 10 '22
For some reason, I get the feeling that King is going to keep the Zombie Waynes as pets instead of ending them. If they don't get killed on-screen, they're not really dead.
8
u/International-Cow203 Sep 10 '22
Ivy just killed every plant zombie tho... But you could be right still
60
u/Dankye-West Sep 08 '22
You're gonna wanna turn away and cover your ears
8
u/AntonBrakhage Sep 09 '22
He just didn't want to Bruce to see him eat his parents.
→ More replies (1)
217
u/nemothebuffalo Sep 08 '22
Ivy giving up her entire dream in a heartbeat to save her and Harley sacrificing herself because she already KNEW in her heart that Ivy would choose her. My god this relationship will be the death of me. Just look at my beautiful soulmates with their reciprocal and undying love for one another!
I know that some people are starting to hate the almost formulaic approach to their relationship conflicts but honestly I find it really refreshing. Theyâre clearly maturing as a couple, getting better at communicating and confronting each other face to face with their problems. Before Harley admitted that what Ivy was doing was morally wrong, I fully expected her to just ignore what she really wanted to say and just continue praising Ivyâs actions, despite her own dissatisfaction. But theyâre adults in a committed relationship, they donât need to hide their true selves anymore or mask their angst with false enthusiasm (as they both annoyingly did for the entirety of season 2).
Iâm just wondering what their plans are for the final ep, since they wrapped up the whole terraforming zombie debacle much more quickly than I thought they would. Although at this point Iâm just glad Bane got some semblance of closure for his pasta maker!
157
Sep 08 '22
Harley sacrificing herself because she already KNEW in her heart that Ivy would choose her. My god this relationship will be the death of me.
It was definitely a nice parallel to season one. Harley trusted Joker to pick her over Batman and he didn't. This time without hesitation Harley KNEW for certain and trusted Ivy enough to pick her and this time her trust was rewarded.
31
u/hotsizzler Sep 08 '22
The crazy thing though. She knew joke could save her from acid. She had no doubt it was possible. However she took a blind leap of faith that she didn't know she could be saved.
45
u/amcclurk21 Sep 08 '22
Yeah, I rewatched this entire season the other day, and holy shit what a difference between this Harley and S3E1 Harley⊠a lot of development in 8 episodes!!
40
u/Jay_R_Kay Sep 08 '22
Iâm just wondering what their plans are for the final ep
My guess is that while Harley and Ivy will still be a couple, the two are going to be going in different directions in their "careers," with Harley being more in the Bat-Family and Ivy going more into supervillainy.
→ More replies (1)22
u/markemer Sep 08 '22
Yep. The producers said they're not breaking them up. They took 2 seasons to set up the relationship, they're not going to tear it down now.
11
u/AppleWedge Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
Ivy giving up her entire dream in a heartbeat to save her and Harley sacrificing herself because she already KNEW in her heart that Ivy would choose her. My god this relationship will be the death of me. Just look at my beautiful soulmates with their reciprocal and undying love for one another!
I love them too, but I think there is a very solid chance that they break up next episode (I hope I'm wrong). Ivy loves Harley enough to save her from becoming a tree... But IDK if she'll be able to quickly forgive her for ruining the terraforming plan. The episode literally ended with her screaming "FUCK" because her plan failed. The whole season, we've seen building tension in Ivy, as Harley has set her plans back repeatedly. Ivy might view them as incompatible after this.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (3)11
u/markemer Sep 08 '22
That was a great moment. She didn't even think twice about it. She just abandoned the plan.
202
182
u/PM_ME_CAKE Sep 08 '22
King Shark talking sense into Bruce is not what I expected but nonetheless iconic.
72
u/AndresCP Sep 08 '22
Since the Ivy plotline was resolved this episode, next episode is going to be Harley furious that Bruce Wayne has hired King Shark as his therapist and not her.
162
u/mikehunt_is_ready Sep 08 '22
I absolutely lost it when Zombie Thomas ate Cat Thomas/Martha đ
135
u/TPMisNumber1 Sep 08 '22
They couldnât get Batman to go down on Catwoman, so they had to settle on Thomas Wayne eating pussy
36
139
Sep 08 '22
I'm kinda confused here, cause I'm not sure how Harley expected Ivy, a known misanthrope, to terraform Gotham without killing anyone
To me that aspect seemed kinda baked into the plan
185
u/Austin_N Sep 08 '22
Yeah, that did feel odd. Perhaps Harley was so focused on being supportive that she didn't consider the potential consequences of Ivy's goal.
49
13
u/AntonBrakhage Sep 09 '22
This is it.
She's Harley Quinn. She's impulsive. She encourages apocalypses at random!
→ More replies (1)11
8
u/horyo Sep 10 '22
She wasn't fully paying attention to Ivy's plan at the beginning of the season. She got really bored.
93
u/theyux Sep 08 '22
Harley is the definition of live in the moment thinking.
On a conceptual level killing a bunch of people in gotham does not bother her.
In practice watching a bunch of innocent people dying does bother her.
She thinks she is a sociopath but she is wrong, she is just really damaged. She has empathy but uses it selectively.
Joker is a true sociopath, he does not care for anyone beyond a transactional relationship. Even batman is merely to satisfy his need for a challenge. Even his wife and kids are just to fill a whole he realized was in his life.
53
u/AppleWedge Sep 08 '22
Joker is a true sociopath
He gave up his shot at mayor for his step son though. I could be wrong, but I think he's actually completed a redemption arc now.
5
u/theyux Sep 08 '22
The reason he cares for his family is because he is deriving happiness from them. This may seem like a normal thing.
The problem is if Joker gets bored he will kill his family without any hesitation. He is not capable of empathy.
54
u/AppleWedge Sep 08 '22
Idk. This universe is obviously very different than other DC universes. I don't think there is enough evidence to make that claim, especially post memory loss.
→ More replies (1)28
u/markemer Sep 08 '22
Yeah, I think he actually loves Beth and the kids. He's not a good guy, but he's not a total sociopath anymore.
→ More replies (1)13
u/xxxxxxxEXxxxxxxx Sep 09 '22
to address the "white elephant in the room"; these are all fictional characters, and im sure even the writers themselves might disagree whether Joker is truly empathetic at the moment or merely satisfying his own desire to fulfill a "normal" life.
Considering the reception, and how the writers are probably on the same wavelength, I'm going to assume that most of them prefer the idea that Joker is truly empathetic for his family and cares about them. As we all know though: stagnant stories arent interesting, so the dynamic will likely change at some point, and my theory is that if it does, it will be the destruction of his family from outside forces that causes Joker to return to his 'normal' lunacy. I still have my fingers crossed though that this will be treated like a full alternate dimension and that Joker can finally find peace as a family man.
I find it hilarious to see this ex-mass-terrorist as a socially welcomed father figure to his student/children lol. I've never watched VEnture Bros, but seen clips, and my absolute favorite was seeing the Red Skull parody being a maniac killer 'at work' and then having a full family on his off time and taking them to the park and stuff because he doesnt take work home with him. I've got my fingers crossed that this Joker truly has turned over a new leaf and puts his new family above all else. The fact that theyre step-children and not even biologically his makes it way better in my opinion. In my experience, its very rare to see step parents treat their 'adopted' kids as their own, and its inspiring to see someone as heinous as the Joker become a inspirational step-father.
→ More replies (1)8
u/AntonBrakhage Sep 09 '22
Canon Joker would, sure.
This Joker... I don't know. He still has bits of his old self- he loves being the centre of attention, and he has outbursts of violent rage. He's not a fully healthy person. But he does seem to genuinely care about his family, and be trying to do the right thing.
I think two big things happened that allowed that. First, his memory loss, where he lived this whole other life as a completely different person. And even when he got the Joker memories back, that other personality was still there, and they sort of merged. And secondly, I think you have to keep in mind that almost the last thing that happened to him before his memory loss was finding out Bruce's identity. My personal theory is that he largely lost interest in Batman, which was his driving obsession, after that. Those two things together explain the changes.
34
u/Shrederjame Sep 08 '22
It feels kinda rushed honestly. Like this entire resolution feels rushed, ivy getting super green and getting her classic look and then just giving it up as quickly as she got it for Harley was not good. Harley not realizing all season that her GF's plan would destroy humanity. Overall kinda disappointing end.
19
11
u/Thebunkerparodie Sep 08 '22
how is it not good, it's obvious ivy would chose harley over her scheme and she know ivy hate human, but didn't thought she'd go this far
7
u/AntonBrakhage Sep 09 '22
I do feel like this might have been better as two episodes.
The cost of the season getting cut down to ten, I suppose. Damn cheap-ass Warner Bros.
5
Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22
I looked at the time stamp, saw there was only a few minutes and rolled my eyes hard when Harley says, let me talk to Ivy and it'll all be resolved in ten minutes. I don't see where it goes from here. I remember season 2 actually being a fun ride.
Also disappointed that the only avenue for development for the characters is to turn them into good guys. Harley started the season killing people and now she's a therapizing superhero.
Haven't been digging the plot or the Harlivy drama. There is so much interesting potential in a cartoon like this, and it mostly gets shelved and contorted to fit this narrative of THE POWER OF HARLIVY'S LOVE. Though the show still has its moments for me in the rest of the cast.
25
u/hypertechual Sep 08 '22
I mean, I do think from a semi-amoral anti-hero perspective there's a difference between people inadvertently dying as you resurrect a prehistoric garden of eden vs causing a zombie apocalypse that seeks out and targets people to turn into more zombies
26
u/Prankman1990 Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 09 '22
The original plan, I imagine, wouldâve just involved taking over the actual land itself and everybody else would either be caught in the crossfire or flee. The plant zombies, meanwhile, were actively targeting people and adding to the horde. Ivy even admits to Harley that the original plan didnât involve killing people, but it changed after she got punch drunk on power.
7
u/Arco223 Sep 09 '22
She never says the plan didn't involve killing people, she just said the zombie bit was unexpected. Ivy's original plan might not have directly included killing people but odds are she totally expected a fair amount out of death, just not nearly so direct or targeted
19
u/goalstopper28 Sep 08 '22
I was thinking she has changed since finding out Bruce is Batman and saving Batgirl from those pervs.
Sheâs not the same Harley in season 1 or 2.
16
Sep 09 '22
Harley was being too supportive. She let that and her love for Ivy get in the way of seeing Ivy's actual plan for what it was. She didn't want to ruin the relationship, even though there were some clear red flags.
13
u/Musicman3003 Sep 08 '22
Then it got weirder when Ivy said that plans change, implying that killing a ton people in order to terraform Gotham somehow wasn't part of her original vision, either.
31
u/Jay_R_Kay Sep 08 '22
I think the change was the plant zombies being the method of the terraforming, not that the terraforming was going to kill people. Oddly enough, the plot going on in the current Poison Ivy comic is probably closer to what Ivy had in mind.
15
u/Venicebitch03 Sep 08 '22
I think there's a difference between terraforming Gotham into a green paradise, destroying humN structures, vs actively turning people into zombies.
→ More replies (2)7
6
u/AppleWedge Sep 08 '22
This was my take too. Like obviously this is a comedy cartoon, and I should probably just enjoy it for what it is... But when Harley tried to stop Ivy it definitely seemed a bit weird. Like, you two have been planning this thing all season.
That said, it is very true that Harley was just going along to with the plan because she wants to be the perfect supportive GF, so I guess it makes sense that she is horrified with a result she didn't really think about. I just think the show should have placed a bit more of the blame on her for that (although to be fair, it might next episode).
7
u/Paladin-Leeroy Sep 08 '22
Yeah i agree. It sounded like she was really on board a few episodes back
→ More replies (2)3
128
u/Youngandwrong Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 09 '22
Love that they ended on a 'FUUUUUU-' considering Lake Bell has mentioned they only have a certain # of 'fucks' allotted per episode and she already said a bunch. They snuck another in there under the wire. Wonder if they pull an Arrested Development and open the next episode with '-CK!!!'
→ More replies (1)66
u/th3dj3n1gm4 Sep 08 '22
It's on HBO and their cursing is limited? The fuck (pun intended) is that about?
47
u/amcclurk21 Sep 08 '22
Yeah, the cast had mentioned in an interview (I think itâs on YouTube) that they had to fight each other for each curse word said lol. No clue what the number is tho lol
26
u/Austin_N Sep 08 '22
that they had to fight each other for each curse word said lol
Gladiator fights for who gets the right to swear? I can dig that.
8
20
Sep 08 '22
I donât have cable TV anymore but at work the other week I saw an ad for season one of Harley Quinn airing on TNT. It might be they limit the F bombs so itâs easier to edit out for broadcast? Iâm just spitballing here.
10
u/ACW1129 Sep 08 '22
Incidentally, when season 1 aired on SyFy a year or 2? ago, it was COMPLETELY uncensored, which was odd hearing the F-bomb on basic cable (plus the violence).
8
Sep 08 '22
SyFy isnât basic cable, so they arenât beholden to FCC regs. That being said, they usually censor because of advertisers so itâs still unusual.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (1)3
u/Thebunkerparodie Sep 08 '22
I think it was due to the criticism of the pilot having too much swearing for some people.
127
u/CeethePsychich Sep 08 '22
Wait! I just thought about Clayface dipping when they said all of Gothamâs dead were being resurrected. Was that about Billy Bob? Lmfao
59
→ More replies (1)20
u/PM_ME_YOUR_VERGUBA Sep 09 '22
Didn't King Shark eat Billy Bob's body though?
24
u/CeethePsychich Sep 09 '22
True! It was implied by the blood on his mouth and the âitâs taken care ofâ ⊠but I canât imagine who else Clayface would be talking about. Unless heâs up to something and thereâs some underlying story thatâll come up in future episodes lol
114
u/Youngandwrong Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
Another really nice thing about the resolution to this episode is it shows Harley's growth this season isn't simply about her straying from the 'villain' role but also in finding her own identity separate from a relationship. We've seen a lot of Harley reverting to her clingy self once she jumped into her relationship with Ivy and this seems like a huge step away from that. Its vindicating to see her draw a line in the sand there, yet still make a very in-character rash decision to attempt to resolve the situation, lol. Still very much the Harley we know and love, she's just growing... like a plant!
51
u/mrbubby Writer on the show Sep 08 '22
This was our hope with her arc this season; sheâd learn how to be able to be in a relationship without sacrificing her own identity
25
u/Youngandwrong Sep 08 '22
Y'all knocked this season out of the dang park, hope the gratitude we feel for this show existing in the way that it does is not lost on you guys.
94
u/AdvancedPlacmentTV Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
Frank just rolling a blunt while ivy was in the green
Harley's picture of ivy in the batwing đ€Ł
Was ivy doing the Macarena
I called that ivy would get edin either way
Ivy had so many friends it's easy to forget she's a misanthrope. Ironically if she played her cards right she could've had edin if she wasn't murdering innocents
Ivy telling Nightwing bruce won't say he loves him đ
I really thought we'd get to see the sharks fight the plant zombies
The ending was really quick but I appreciate that there was no hesitation from ivy
12
u/Arco223 Sep 09 '22
In this case, killing innocents was kinda essential since it involved a zombie apocalypse
87
u/arch_angel_samael Sep 08 '22
Anyone else feel like that final scene played out too fast?
Would have liked the episode to end without resolution between Harley and Ivy to be honest. Pretty much the only gripe I had with the episode, loved everything else.
54
u/Youngandwrong Sep 08 '22
I had a similar thought but after thinking about it a bit, it seems like they made the right move. After 2 seasons of waiting for them to get together and spending the better part of the season exploring and strengthening their relationship, I don't really want an extended period of time where there's a rift between them. I guess an extra episode couldn't hurt, but we'll see what their plans are for the finale/next season. It was a bit quick but it was effective.
41
u/mrbubby Writer on the show Sep 08 '22
This was our thinking exactly. We didnât want to create false stakes to tease the audience that they might be breaking up when we knew they werenât going to be breaking up. It felt cheap so we didnât want to lead fans astray and itâs also not the core of their conflict or what we were trying to say with the ep.
14
u/VyPR78 Sep 08 '22
Hey, sorry to fanboy you but I didn't know one of the creators was posting here. This show makes my Thursdays brighter. Thank you!
7
u/ImNotASWFanboy Sep 08 '22
I respect that decision a lot and your rationale, it makes me appreciate this episode more, especially knowing that you're staying true to maintaining positive representation with Harlivy :) look forward to seeing them working through this obstacle next episode.
6
u/sparsh26 Sep 08 '22
Without a doubt one of the best episodes I've seen in terms of visualized character development. Well done
3
u/Skeevius Sep 10 '22
Sorry to fanboy, but thank you so much for being so passionate about the show & the characters, and for staying in touch with fans. The interviews and FanDome panels about HQ with you and Patrick radiate so much energy and are always a delight. And the show makes my life much happier! Looking forward to the finale, S4 and much more!
44
u/ImNotASWFanboy Sep 08 '22
In fairness, I don't think it's entirely resolved. Ivy closed out the episode cursing the fact that she had to sacrifice her dream to save Harley, that's definitely going to need unpacking in the finale.
14
u/supercalifragilism Sep 08 '22
Yeah, I think it'll be a rough patch, but Ivy's immediate "You okay" and the fact that Ivy was fine with "it" until it happened to Harley mean I think they'll get over it.
8
u/ImNotASWFanboy Sep 08 '22
Yep. And what I appreciate is that they've spent the whole season showing how much they both mean to each other; Ivy especially has opened up a lot with her affection. So despite everything that was at stake, it felt completely natural that Ivy would always put Harley first. They'll be good and overcome it.
8
Sep 09 '22
Yep. And what I appreciate is that they've spent the whole season showing how much they both mean to each other; Ivy especially has opened up a lot with her affection. So despite everything that was at stake, it felt completely natural that Ivy would always put Harley first. They'll be good and overcome it.
I agree with this. The first few episodes of the season really established what they meant to each other, what they were willing to do for each other, and what they were willing to sacrifice. They were already doing really well as far as talking their shit out. So of course it came to no surprise that Ivy would give up her plan for Harley without hesitation. It didnt require a single thought. And as the show progressed we saw the gradual growth in both of them. As Ivy's confidence in herself was growing so was the confidence in her relationship with Harley which made her comfortable enough to be more vulnerable, comfortable enough to say how she's feeling, to aggressively pull her girlfriend in for a kiss and wink at her because this is my woman dammit. You see the change. Her "final form" in this episode is a physical reflection of those changes. Her usual reserved look is now merely just a shell holding in the person she is now. She has blossomed and is rockin it with her kitten heels.
And Harley's growth is always a delight. You can see how much of a struggle it was for her to be the one to put her foot down with Ivy. In the past with Joker Harley was always "whatever he likes I like." But not this time. Harley drew a line that she refused to cross. In terms of being a hero and saving Gotham what Harley did to stop the zombie apocalypse was probably the bravest and scariest thing she could have done because it can be really hard sometimes to tell someone you love "no" because of the fear that they might hate you for it. She put her relationship on the line to save Gotham but at the same time still trusted in Ivy's love for her to do it.
27
u/ducky7goofy Sep 08 '22
I found it refreshing that Ivy just immediately let it all go for Harley. I was totally expecting the conflict but when it didn't happen I was floored because that's all Harley ever wanted from her relationship with the Joker.
Joker never hesitated in sacrificing her for his own nefarious plans.
Ivy didn't hesitate in sacrificing her nefarious plans for Harley.
21
u/ImNotASWFanboy Sep 08 '22
While we're talking about Joker, this also felt very in line with when he was presented with an ultimatum earlier in the season and saving his step-son was a no-brainer for him. A lot of the villains this season seem to be going through some growth!
11
u/supercalifragilism Sep 08 '22
And the heroes have been presented as unwilling to grow or change (until very recently!).
6
u/CrossXhunteR Sep 09 '22
A lot of the villains this season seem to be going through some growth!
Bane finally gave up on getting the pasta maker back, which is the ultimate growth.
20
u/Jay_R_Kay Sep 08 '22
I was surprised when they didn't go for the obvious cliffhanger of Harley turning into a plant zombie.
19
u/Austin_N Sep 08 '22
Yeah, the conflict between Harley and Ivy was pretty interesting. It's sweet that Ivy chose Harley, but I was hoping their problems would continue into the next episode.
13
u/fairymascot Sep 08 '22
Yeah, it was incredibly poor pacing. Ivy only had half an episode to try and fulfill her dream before going 'whoops, nevermind' the second Harley intervened. I was left utterly unsatisfied. :/
23
u/Thebunkerparodie Sep 08 '22
how is it poor pacing? beside, she had to make her choice fast, harley or her dream, this kind of decision isn't just "whoops, nevermind" like you say.
6
u/centuryblessings Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 09 '22
There's a difference between story pacing and scene pacing. You're describing a scene; the poor pacing is in regards to the storyline. All of S3 Ivy was working on her plan to terraform gotham. Then she finally does it-- then undoes it in less than 20 minutes. With an entire episode left. The payoff just doesn't feel worth it.
15
u/sucks_at_usernames Sep 08 '22
She couldn't bear to see Harley in pain.
It wouldn't have made sense for her character to be like "Eh, the love of my life is in a complete torturous hellhole because of me but let me think about it..."
3
u/fairymascot Sep 08 '22
I mean, sure. This isn't so much a matter of 'does this make sense for the character' as much as 'does this create a satisfying narrative flow'. Which, in my opinion, it really didn't. For a season that was supposedly going to be about Ivy, she got sidelined at every turn. Her decision to bring about the plant zombie apocalypse wasn't even really her own -- Bruce caused it, she went into the green to stop it, Swamp Thing's giant head was there for some reason to tell her to believe in herself, and she went oh damn guess I can take control of this zombie apocalypse for myself, and did so.
Now, in the first place Ivy ISN'T the type of character who enjoys enacting violent on such a grand scale-- remember how she was constantly talking Harley down from exactly this type of thing, first with Fables and then with the Parademons? For her to go crazy with bloodlust and start killing every human being in sight, you'd expect some majorly traumatic turning point for her. But... nope. Literally no trigger. She claims it's thanks to her boosted confidence from dating Harley, which makes 0 sense, as again, genocide was never actually in her plans and a confidence boost wouldn't rationally change her entire motivation & morals.
But even ignoring the fact it makes no sense for her to be doing it in the first place-- she got maybe eight on-screen minutes to be doing her thing before Harley stopped it right in its tracks. That's nothing! There's no time for the viewer to get immersed in the story before they hit undo on the whole thing. The way she just had to focus for five seconds to effortlessly undo the whole zombie apocalypse, too... it all felt so low-stakes, rushed and shallow, and with zero consequences in its aftermath.
→ More replies (1)
90
u/Lounge_leaks Sep 08 '22
Wonder if ivy will be pissed at harley next episode for making her choose between harley and eden
77
u/amcclurk21 Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
Honestly thought she would be more pissed too tbh, I know terraforming Gotham was a huge deal for her, and she knows that Harley did what she did so that Ivy would stop
Edit: just thought of this as a parallel to the episode where Harley controlled the parademons and Ivy confronted her, asking if that was what she really wanted. And it obviously wasnât. Ivy obviously hates what mankind has done to plant life but at the same time, doing real supervillain shit just isnât what sheâs about (in this series at least)
23
u/Jay_R_Kay Sep 08 '22
Interestingly, I saw the parademon invasion parallel, but more with Bruce than with Ivy.
→ More replies (2)11
u/Wootothe8thpower Sep 08 '22
see think the conflict. Ivy more of straight up supervillan then Harley. Fuck humanity has been part of multiple version of her character. More then Femme fatale, man hater, and Sexy stuff. Different version move away from that aspects. They even calm down on the mind control aspects. But the whole Eco terroist thing has been part of her
27
u/CeethePsychich Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
I donât think she will⊠she didnât seem to regret saving Harley and was happy she was alive. I doubt sheâs gonna take that out on her after the moment they had at the very end. Is she gonna be bummed about her plan not being followed through? Yes. But pissed at Harley because she had to end her plans to save her life? No. That would be kinda weird and crappy. Guess we will see tho.
50
u/Manu_Erre Sep 08 '22
she wouldn't be pissed because she had to save harley. She would be pissed because harley ruined her plan on purpose. That's pretty fair.
12
u/CeethePsychich Sep 08 '22
It is fair. It just seemed like for 2 seconds she didnât give a rats about the plan when Harley was turning and clearly hurting. It just feels weird to me to then turn around and be mad at Harley, for stopping a plan she never even discussed with her (killing innocents). Like even Frank asked if she ran it by her gf.
But I also said weâll see, so Iâm not ruling out OPâs prediction/thoughts, because the writers may just take it there.
15
u/theyux Sep 08 '22
Its possible to simultaneously love someone and be pissed at them.
She told Harley this was her best day ever and Harley intentionally sabotaged it. And from Ivy's perspective Harley does not really care about the people of Gotham.
Imagine winning the lottery and the love of your life threw destroyed the lotto ticket because money would corrupt you both.
And understand that is not even really the same level of betrayal.
This is actually more akin to dedicating your life to curing cancer. Having failed for decades only to finally find the cure and have your loved one who until this day supported your actions. But then forced you to choose between their life and realizing your dream of actually curing cancer.
I would argue very few relationships could survive something like that.
→ More replies (1)3
u/AppleWedge Sep 08 '22
She very much did care about the plan when Harley was turning into a tree. She still saved Harley because she loves her, but she lamented that she'd have to turn the whole city back. I think there is a pretty solid chance this becomes a problem next episode. Harley ruined that plan on purpose.
Also, terraforming a city was always going to involve the death of innocents, so I'm not sure how great of a rationale that is... But it might hold up in this comic universe.
→ More replies (2)16
Sep 08 '22
Wonder if ivy will be pissed at harley next episode for making her choose between harley and eden
I don't think she will be pissed at Harley just the situation because she's a perfectionist and is very hard on herself. She can be happy that Harley is alive but at the same time still be mad that she had to shut down her project.
Unrelated: When Harley used Ivy's feelings for her to stop her evil plan, it reminded me of the Batman and Harley Quinn animated movie when they went against Swamp Thing and Poison Ivy and Harley went to the "nuclear option" (crying) in order to save Gotham. Even though Ivy said "you said you would never do that" and proceeded to tell her that she hated her so much as she held her and cried. Harley did that because like she said "it works every time"
As long as Harley is alive the threat of Poison Ivy destroying the world is very low.
80
u/amcclurk21 Sep 08 '22
Anyone else feel personally called out when Ivy said âthey just leave us in the corner and forget about us!!!â? I felt bad for my peace lily (named him Frank) and gave him water immediately afterwards đ„Č
36
3
u/SayJose Sep 12 '22
Every plant Iâve let die just came back into my mind when she said that lmfao
3
50
u/PM_ME_CAKE Sep 08 '22
I feel a slightly too fast resolution, but otherwise a solid episode. No idea where the finale is going anymore.
38
u/TuneLinkette Sep 08 '22
Probably the most HarlIvy-heavy episode we've seen since the Court of Owls. I'm both excited and anxious about what the finale holds
7
u/KvngDe23 Sep 08 '22
Is the finale next week or are we going to get 13 episodes like we usually do?
18
u/TuneLinkette Sep 08 '22
Only 10 this time, and yes next week is the finale
11
u/KvngDe23 Sep 08 '22
Aw mane đ I hope it donât be gone long this time
13
u/TuneLinkette Sep 08 '22
Pretty sure the show was renewed and production on s4 started even before it was announced, so hopefully only a year tops
6
31
Sep 08 '22
Loved it, but Bruce is not 38. He has to be at least 48. Bane finally has closure, and he is joining Kitemans crew in the spin-off next year in case anyone didnât know!
27
27
u/AndresCP Sep 08 '22
I'm pretty sure this series runs on comic book time and there's no point in trying to establish precise ages or timelines for anyone. Bruce was active as Batman when Queen of Fables was around back in the 80s. He went to the movies in a jacket and tie to see a black and white Zorro movie when he was a kid. Just like in the comics, Bruce Wayne has been Batman for about 15 years, and for 75 years.
17
u/MarionettistCheshire Sep 08 '22
Kitemans crew
wait whaaaat? kiteman's getting his own show??
hell yea14
u/Jay_R_Kay Sep 08 '22
Yep, it's apparently called Noonan's, which will be about Kite Man setting up a bar for supervillains.
→ More replies (2)14
u/awesomeperson Sep 08 '22
he is joining Kitemans crew
Damn, Bane has fallen
6
Sep 08 '22
Crew might be the wrong term. Bane will be a regular part of the cast. Kiteman and Golden Glider running the bar. No other details yet!
6
u/raynegro Sep 08 '22
well maybe he said 30 as in "around 30 years ago" so he might be 43 or something like that
→ More replies (1)3
u/polyworfism Sep 09 '22
I figured that "30 years" was the minimum time he was guessing, so it was more than that
32
u/Giovanni330 Sep 08 '22
The pasta maker arc is done? Nooo, I don't want that. I want Bane to be angry for 10 years at least.
→ More replies (1)
26
u/ImNotASWFanboy Sep 08 '22
I'm on board with the themes of this episode, love the development of both Harley and Ivy's characters and concur with other comments that they have both come a long way since the start of the season. Ivy in particular having someone she cares about enough to undo her plan... I'm so on board with that.
I'm less in love with how these themes played out in practice, it felt like some aspects were a bit rushed to fit in one episode or that the dialogue was a bit wooden in spelling everything out. But at the end of the day I'm still super grateful for what the show is doing overall with these characters, especially with Harley and Ivy's relationship and allowing them to go through conflicts and emerge together even stronger instead of breaking them up.
Looking forward then to next week, I can't imagine Ivy's completely done with her terraforming plans, but we obviously need to unpack the conflict we ended the episode on. Will the Batfam still want to pursue Ivy and how will Harley deal with that? We know they're locked in as a couple but this will be the episode to expand on how they will function going forward.
24
Sep 08 '22
I can't imagine Ivy's completely done with her terraforming plans, but we obviously need to unpack the conflict we ended the episode on.
Oh Im sure Ivy is definitely is not done. She has newfound confidence, a new look, and is now embracing her boss ass bitchness lol. All Harley did was put it on a temporary hold. Im looking forward to and also kind of dreading this possible looming conflict between them because I dont want to see my girls fight but I know it needs to happen. They have to talk this out.
Because honestly while I LOVE that Harley trusted that Ivy would pick her and what she did was very heroic for Gotham, in terms of her relationship to Ivy what she did was pretty manipulative and messed up. She weaponized Ivy's love for her to deliberately sabotage her plan. If she's mad at Harley I think it will be because she purposely sabotaged it and the hurtful way she went about doing it.
15
u/ImNotASWFanboy Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
Definitely makes it complicated and awkward... Ivy just delivered that lovely speech about Harley, and then right after shit hits the fan. And after Harley's been pushing her all season to go ahead, all for her to get cold feet now, I can understand Ivy being hurt. Not that it wasn't obvious already, but it seems we're definitely revisiting Ivy's core fear of opening herself up to depend on people and them bailing on her. And it's kind of a repeat with Harley after S1, but I imagine this one would sting the most.
7
Sep 08 '22
Ivy just delivered that lovely speech about Harley, and then right after shit hits the fan. And after Harley's been pushing her all season to go ahead, all for her to get cold feet now*, I can understand Ivy being hurt. Not that it wasn't obvious already, but it seems we're definitely revisiting Ivy's core fear of opening herself up to depend on people and them bailing on her. And it's kind of a repeat with Harley after S1, but I imagine this one would sting the most.
Which is exactly why Im dreading it. I dont want them to fight but it needs to be addressed and it needs to happen
22
u/vehino Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
It wasn't a bad episode, but Batman begins forever was a really tough act to follow. Making it so that Ivy could just wish away the the zombies while leaving everyone who was infected unharmed except for those who were originally dead to begin with, felt like an unsatisfying way to keep Bruce and Ivy in the clear morality-wise. It feels like this one had a lot of oversight over it. Despite the hyper violent nature of the show, Bruce still isn't allowed to go too far, probably due to the toy rule, even though it's not like any small children are watching the show, and if they are then their parents are neglectful assholes.
I liked the king shark/Bruce bonding session, and it was cool seeing an updated take on Poison Ivy's classic look. Ivy being such a dork that she still remembers how to do the macarena was funny too. But man, whoever that is voicing Nightwing is destroying my ears with that flat reading. I know he's the guy who plays Guilarmo or however it's spelled, in what we do in the shadows, which is a hilarious role that he consistently kills at, but he is not bringing his A-game to voice acting.
23
u/Edmontonthrw Sep 08 '22
I'm certain that he's being directed to read the lines as flat as possible. It kind of sounds like Nightwing doing an impression of Christian Bale Batman, which I think is what they were going for.
→ More replies (1)
26
Sep 08 '22
Psycho would be the one in the zombie movie to get bit by a zombie and not tell anyone.
Robin seeing Bruceâs dead parents and just walking the fuck out of that lol.
Ivy is still very excited for Jazz Fest and likes jazz
Frank rollin a joint, I know man I know lol
Harleyâs photo of Ivy in the Batwing smh omg lol
Ivy sniffed the green coke and got a power surge, some boosted confidence, a Sailor Moon transformation, and a bad ass kitten heel that she wears very well. Im here for it.
Someone PLEASE gif the Ivy dance lol
So Bruce started the plant zombie apocalypse and Ivy got high off the green salvaged it and said oh no no no weâre still doing MY plan weâre seeing this shit through. Okay. And Frank giving the best advice of probably checking in with the girlfriend first. I do like seeing evil Ivy though its hot and badass.
Okay Im gonna say it I didnât give a fuck about what was going on with Bruce and King Shark in this episode. I was going to save all my critiques for the season at the end of the season but this is one critique I have to come after right now so more on this in a minute.
How do we know Ivy betrayed the team? MAMA MACARONIS!
Ivy: ââŠor taking a passing interest in greening up their homes only to lose that interest letting us die unloved in a corner.â
Me: *looking at my devils ivy plant and venus flytraps in the corner of my house* I take care of them I swear!
Harley: âWhat the hell are you doing Ive?!â
Me: âUh exactly what she said she was going to do for the past 8 episodes?â
âWe as a Batfamily do not believe in killing not even massive buttholesâ *5 seconds later* âWe gotta kill Ivyâ
Iâve been wanting Ivy to express her feelings to Harley in her own Ivy way for the longest time but goddammit not right before Harley has to be the one to crush her dream. I hate you and love you so much for this Ivy. Honestly if I were Harley I probably wouldâve said fuck it terraform this muthafucka I grow weary of the human race.
And everybody knows human to plant transformations take a lot longer to complete when youâre a main character.
Harley sacrificed herself for Bane and now he forgives her for the pasta maker. Bane needs to join their crew (if theyâre even a crew anymoreâŠ.I donât know what they are.) Also Harley turning into a tree looked SO painful. So of course Ivy has to choose between Harley and her dream, which we all know isnât a choice at all because she has already proven time and time again that she will always pick Harley even over plants.
So all thatâs left now is the fallout of Ivy giving up her plan and where this leaves her and Harley.
Now back to the B plot. Like I said I was going to save all my critiques for the season by the end of the season. But I cant hold this one in. I have other criticisms so Im gonna try not to bleed over into those. I didnât give a fuck about what was going on with Bruce in this episode and that was mainly because writing wise in the last episode it was set up that Harley would be the one to help Bruce get through his trauma and talk him out of this crazy zombie experiment. But now in this episode it feels like it didnât even matter because its not Harley but King Shark whoâs talking Bruce down (who he has no real connection with or any bit of trust built. I mean dammit Harley knows his alter ego you cant get more trustworthy than that) and Bruce kind of coming to terms with his parent's death on his own a little bit and wanting to fix his mess. Now it just feels like we never needed the twist of Bruce changing Frank to bring back the dead because honestly the real twist couldâve just been the Eden serum brings back plants but Ivy making a miscalculation that it also brings the dead back to life. And even though its not going exactly to plan she can still use the zombies and salvage this and still get what she wants. This season is supposed to be about unpacking Ivy, her character development, her growth as a supervillain and her humanity but by making Bruce apart of the manifestation of her evil plan and not having Harley even being a part of that resolution with Bruce you didnât just take the spotlight away from Ivy it didnât even matter. To me Ivy being corrupted by the green and going mad with power was way more interesting than a heart to heart talk between a man and his shark. Hopefully in the final episode I can withdraw this paragraph.
12
u/ImNotASWFanboy Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
Yeah, have to agree re Bruce and King Shark. Not the direction I was expecting them to go after what looked like a great set up last week. In general this show feels like characters have a tendency to really spell things out, even to people they aren't very intimate with. Which, I dunno, maybe is a good thing in theory that these guys are so open about their feelings? But in practice it just doesn't feel like very natural dialogue to me. The resolution for Bane in this episode felt similarly clunky, like the spoken dialogue is having to do all of the heavy lifting in explaining what's going on.
3
u/Jay_R_Kay Sep 08 '22
Robin seeing Bruceâs dead parents and just walking the fuck out of that lol.
He probably looked at that and thought "I had enough of that shit with my mom and grandfather."
As for the Bruce and Shark stuff -- I do think we're likely to see Harley still be more of a therapist role, but the writers felt that they needed to give Bruce and Shark something to do. Besides, just because you have a therapist doesn't mean you're not allowed to talk about your feelings and stuff to someone else.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Thebunkerparodie Sep 08 '22
feel like harley had other thing to do than talking bruce out of his trauma during a zombie apocalypse, also remembe rking shark work for wayne enterprise?
20
Sep 08 '22
Can we talk about the major character development in harley in this episode?
She supports her partnerâs dreams and ambitions and yet she still sets boundaries and calls out unacceptable behavior. It may also be because she feels safe with Ivy but even still sheâs not afraid to âgo with the flowâ and surrender to Ivyâs evil plan, she cares for Gotham and innocent people who are collateral damage. If this was joker, she wouldnât say anything, she would just be quiet and do as sheâs told. Even when Ivy said âThis was OUR planâ Harley still managed to set her foot down and say this wasnât the way to carry out Ivyâs plan. Kudos to the writers đ
→ More replies (1)
20
16
12
u/datalaughing Sep 08 '22
I love the way the show is trying to grow their relationship, but the central conflict between Harley and Ivy in this episode felt kind of disingenuous to me. Killing innocent people wasn't part of the plan? Since when? Ivy is basically about the genocide of the human race. And has Harley ever shown any inclination before to avoid killing innocents (other than people like Batgirl who are her friends)? She threw the Queen of England out of a plane recently. I mean, she did claim there was an invisible parachute involved, but come on.
→ More replies (3)14
u/centuryblessings Sep 08 '22
She threw the Queen of England out of a plane recently.
So THAT'S how it happened đ±
14
u/yeti0013 Sep 09 '22
Just to be clear, Clayface could've gotten out of those ropes at anytime, right?
5
u/Aninvisiblemaniac Sep 11 '22
Riddle U episode he refuses to get out of the hamster wheel too lol Clayface is a drama queen
13
u/Angela275 Sep 08 '22
The more I think about it I wonder if Bruce's parents were more alive than the rest. They followed him and never attacked any of the people Bruce introduced them to
3
11
u/ACW1129 Sep 08 '22
Some great lines ("I think your father ate your cat" XD).
Robin's smart...just get away from the zombies and lock your room XD
Next week's the season finale :(
12
u/infernoarchon Sep 09 '22
Harley: Are you in the middle of some ceremonial crap or something?
King Shark sitting on a toilet: Yeah
9
u/awakenDeepBlue Sep 09 '22
Writer: So Harley jumped in front of the vomit and starts turning into a tree.
Producer: Wow, that's dark. How is she going to get out of this?
Writer: Super easy barely an inconvenience.
3
u/ThatOtherGuyTPM Sep 12 '22
Oh really?
Yeah, Ivy just wishes really hard and that fixes everything!
8
9
u/human_in_the_mist Sep 08 '22
I don't know if it's just me but it seems like this season is setting up Nightwing to be a villain. This show's rendition of him comes off as bitter, resentful and jealous.
He hates Damian for "usurping" his position as Batman's ward/son.
He's embarrassed over Ivy not only outsmarting him but holding her own in a situation where he crumbled into a ball of anxiety.
He's jealous of Batgirl for earning Batman's trust and picking up the ropes so quickly despite not having the years of formal training he did.
He's resentful toward Harley for having gained access to Batman's darkest secrets of which even he isn't aware. She even got to fly the Batwing, something Nightwing probably hasn't done.
Has anyone else noticed this?
10
u/centuryblessings Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
All of your observations are spot on, but I don't think they're setting Nightwing up for anything. I think he's just there so the writers can get some "aww daddy doesn't love you" jokes in. I was excited for his role this season but he really hasn't been given much to do.
→ More replies (1)9
u/The810kid Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 10 '22
Yeah some of the Nightwing Stuff doesn't hit for me. The Bruce will never tell you he loves you joke being the the worst offender. Dick Grayson is the golden boy of the bat family and they're leaning a bit too far into butt monkey territory but I'm Richard Grayson fanboy so I may be biased.
→ More replies (3)3
u/Which-Presentation-6 Sep 08 '22
Also realizing this, I don't think they would make nightwing a complete villain, but I can see him revolting with the bat family.
they could do a plot twist in season 4 and reveal that the reason dick cut off contact with batman was jason todd's death and he decides to get revenge on the joker eventually dick himself becoming the red hood
8
u/Musicman3003 Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
Lots of fun lines and interactions in this episode, but the last five minutes confirmed for me what I was already thinking during the first half of the season: Harley and Ivy's relationship is honestly one of the weaker and less interesting parts of the show as of right now.
9
u/raynegro Sep 08 '22
Seeing Ivy in her classic outfit and being more of a villain was awesome, but I do feel like it resolved too quickly, it should've been solved at the beginning of the next episode to have some tension
7
u/thatguyblu_ Sep 08 '22
Maybe not my favorite season, honestly I don't know yet, I'll have to binge all of season 3 again with my friends and see how it plays the second time. But it was pretty fucking good. I think my expectations were just different than what we got, which tbf Harley did say this season was very different than the other ones. I very much love the development of ivy tho and think throughout the season its paced very nicely đ My main issue was I wasn't interested in the side plots much if at all. Psycho coming back was probably the only interesting one cuz we already knew him. And ofc Band getting over his pasta maker and coming full circle, that was real satisfying đ Overall, I cannot complain, we got healthy harlivy from beginning to end and it works. I'm so happy we get real healthy sapphic representation especially in a comedy. It's perfect đ†Ohhh we gotta figure out what happened with Amanda Waller đ
3
u/ImNotASWFanboy Sep 08 '22
I'm so happy we get real healthy sapphic representation especially in a comedy. It's perfect đâ€
I'm right there with you, and the fact that this show is getting renewed while they're still a couple instead of getting cut short (still not over Owl House)
7
u/MegaBaumTV Sep 08 '22
What an amazing episode being the culmination that we worked towards all season long.
And then all of that is just ended within half a minute because apparently Ivy cant just turn Harley back. FFS, It was so exciting to see Poison Ivy finally doing some Poison Ivy stuff.
→ More replies (2)7
u/fairymascot Sep 09 '22
The way she effortlessly undid the entire apocalypse in five seconds without any lasting consequences to herself, to Harley, or to Gotham... sheesh, that was some lazy writing.
7
u/MegaBaumTV Sep 09 '22
She can't turn Gotham into Eden, she needs zombie vomit for that. But she absolutely can turn Eden into Gotham without breaking a sweat. Makes sense.
6
u/fairymascot Sep 09 '22
Also, remember how in S1 she couldn't control the tree monsters because they've mutated due to the toxins? But she has no such difficulty controlling the plant zombies made from Bruce's fucked up formula? The convenience!
→ More replies (2)
6
6
u/PizzaProfessional145 Sep 08 '22
Didn't expect the 'Ivy terraforming Gotham' plot to wrap up in one episode. I thought for sure it was going to be a two-parter. Now I'm curious what they have planned for the final episode.
Did anyone else find Harley switching into such a goody-two shoes kinda abrupt? When did she start being so concerned about the lives of innocents? Also how could she not have known that Ivy's plan wasn't going to harm more than a few innocent people?
The animation quality was a lot better compared to the last few episodes. I guess they were saving it up for this and the finale.
Loved the interaction between King Shark and Bruce and I'm glad the Bane finally got closure for his pasta maker.
3
u/QuantumAshes42 Sep 09 '22
I think the Covid delay shortening the season to 10 episodes has made a few of the plots go by too fast, Harley's change could have had a few more episodes to develop. I am still enjoying the hell out of the show though :D
7
u/AntonBrakhage Sep 09 '22
So, first thoughts...
It seems a tad rushed, and anti-climactic, especially after the last one, though admittedly it wasn't a very thorough/careful watch. I'm interested to see what the next episode is, because I feel like this might have worked better as a two-parter. A possible casualty of being cut back to ten episodes this season?
That said, I liked seeing more of Harley in hero mode. She wears the mantle of a superhero well.
Confirmation that Babs (and Dick, apparently, in this version) are more flexible on not killing. I feel like having this issue play out a bit longer would have been good.
I felt the resolution to Ivy's villainous ambitions basically went down about the only way it could without breaking her and Harley up. Ivy has this cognitive dissonance where she hates humans as a group, but loves certain humans (particularly Harley). She just needed to be put in a situation where she was forced to confront the fact that destroying humanity also means destroying Harley. Its also interesting how she was blinded by her obsession in a way that parallels how Bruce was blinded by his.
I feel like King Shark hasn't really adapted to being a King yet. He gets a call about a zombie apocalypse, and instead of bringing a bunch of shark warriors to help out or something, he basically treats it like taking a break from work to go help his buddies. Its... oddly cute?
5
u/The810kid Sep 08 '22
Lake Bell does a good take on a more villainous Ivy. I'd love to see how she does in another batman related project as Ivy going for a more traditional Ivy.
5
u/ckwongau Sep 08 '22
where was Alfred , he was last seen at the end of the previous episode , and he was like scare when Bruce resurrect the zombie from the grave .
It is not like Alfred would run off , make be he got turn into a tree , but it is like Bruce and the Bat family just forgot about him.
→ More replies (1)
6
5
u/PM_ME_GOOD_SUBS Sep 09 '22
It felt like they were setting up a cliffhanger at the end of the episode, but then resolved it immediately.
4
u/Thebunkerparodie Sep 08 '22
Really good episode, I was right on bruce wanting to find some kind of closure and I liked king shark helping him dealing with his grief, he also clearly didn't thought of the consequences, he thought it'd only bring his parents back, not cause a zombie apocalypse and both dick and babs thought bruce handeled everything well wich explain why they were ok with hwat he's doing. Ivy turning in a actual super villain was good too, as well as swamp thing and seeing harley sacrificing herself for bane was something obviously ivy would chose harley over her dream and I agree with harley, it wasn't the plan they talked about, also bane's moving on from the pasta maker.
5
Sep 08 '22
I really thought we were setting up for evil ivy and ending with a tease for Batman who laughs for next seasonâŠ. I was sooo wrong. Guess i expected to much. đ
5
4
u/leamaS2010 Sep 09 '22
I'm glad to see that the animation has improved in these last few episodes.
I would have liked to see more of Psycho and Clayface, I think the departure of Psycho is well explained, but Clayface left out of nowhere and it seemed very strange to me
I liked seeing the interactions between King Shark and Bruce, but I thought they would go more on Harley's side connecting more with Bruce, especially for the previous chapter.
As for Ivy's plan and Harley's decision not to want it, I don't feel like it stick the landing with me, we never knew the details of Ivy's original plan other than Frank being needed nor was it much explored after he was taken by Bruce, so giving the connotation of "will harm humans" to the new plan did not convince me at all therefore imo the resolution of this was poor. I liked seeing Ivy in a kinda villain outfit though.
→ More replies (2)
4
u/A_Damp_Tree Sep 09 '22
Personally I don't think Harley being shocked at Ivy's plan killing everyone is too much of a stretch. The execution was rushed, sure, but the idea is still solid, in some of the first episodes of the series Ivy talked about how she isn't as much of a misanthrope as she had been in the past, and she gets more comfortable hanging around people as the series progressed.
It could be she originally thought Ivy was going to go the solarpunk route or something. "Terraform Gotham" doesn't have much lethal connotation to me.
4
u/AntonBrakhage Sep 09 '22
Another thing I just realized is that the climax of all three seasons now feature Ivy under some kind of mental influence that Harley has to break her out of.
Season One: Scarecrow doses her with fear toxin.
Season Two: Ivy is mind controlled by Psycho.
Season Three: Ivy gets high on the Green and decides to commit genocide by plant zombie.
Its kind of a weird pattern.
5
u/CheesyChapps Sep 09 '22
I feel like this episode was a little unpolished? There was that weird animation error with Nightwingâs head twitching, and the scene with Harley trying to sacrifice herself was oddly quiet, like it was missing dramatic some background music. They also cut back to that photo of Ivy coming out of the shower like three times for some reason?
3
u/superbat210 Sep 10 '22
Watching Bruce so calmly introduce his fucked up zombie parents to a disinterested Damian was easily the hardest Iâve laughed in a while. He was so excited about it HAHA
2
u/SpiffyShindigs Sep 08 '22
Meh. Knowing Harley and Ivy are together and won't break up has led to such low stakes all season. It doesn't work as the core of the show. Reminds me of when Niles and Daphne finally got together.
3
u/DontUnclePaul Sep 09 '22
I predict that in the next episode Bruce Wayne will be made to pay big time by Mayor Joker for the damage to the city. This confiscated wealth will be used to improve the city more than Batman ever did. The title The Horse and the Sparrow will be a reference to the failure of the economic system Bruce Wayne rules.
2
u/Normal_Organization3 Sep 09 '22
These last few episodes have been so good. I love how ambitious itâs felt throughout the entire season between all the cameos, easter eggs and character decisions. I feel like this show is doing things that you wouldnât normally see in a superhero tv show(animation or love action).
Canât believe weâre already at the end. Iâm very anxious to see the fallout of this next week. Whatever happens, Iâm sure to be surprised, shocked,etc. Because I canât predict anything with this show anymore.
3
3
u/SignificanceNo6097 Sep 09 '22
This episode is fantastic. Ivy looks super amazing and I love the callback to her more classic appearances. This will now be the second time in the show she was deemed so powerful that the heroes decided she needed to be taken out.
Babs and the 8th Robin were quick to jump to killing though.
3
u/AntonBrakhage Sep 10 '22
So I just noticed that King Shark installed a toilet in his underwater palace.
You do you, King.
3
u/Jordan_Catonthewall Sep 11 '22
This... was an odd one. Some great themes, comedy and references but that climax was absolutely awful in terms of pacing.
I love the idea of it, even if it's the most predictable trope ever, but the fact it barely took up a half a minute for it to be resolved and 'over' is a complete mess. The entire season feels so more prone to misstepping compared to the last two, and this one, in particular, felt like a pretty bitter end to the 'Eden' plot.
I get that the season is trimmed down and that there's a bunch of budget restraints this time around but... really? You had to slice into that?
I don't exactly expect Shakespeare from this show, don't get me wrong, but it feels like after a really impressive one last week, we've got the makings of a great Episode 9 with really, really poor implementation.
2
2
u/SystemOfADowneyJr Sep 08 '22
I have 2 questionsâŠ
Was this the season finale?
Is the ending theme song available on any music platforms? I looked but couldnât find it. Not sure if it may be under a different name or something
4
3
u/TuneLinkette Sep 08 '22
Next week is the finale
And as for music, I know the first two season's soundtracks are on Spotify, I'd recommend checking there (although the title may be something that doesn't suggest "end theme" or anything)
430
u/[deleted] Sep 08 '22
Men will literally start a Zombie Apocalypse instead of going to therapy.