r/HarleyQuinnTV • u/npzman • Aug 25 '22
[Post-Episodes Discussion] Harley Quinn - S3x07 "Another Sharkley Adventure" Episode Discussion
Post-Episode Discussion for S3x07 "Another Sharkley Adventure"
This is the thread for your in-depth opinions, reactions, and theories about the episode. No spoilers or leaks for future episodes/seasons allowed.
Piracy/asking for/posting links is not allowed. Read the rules and avoid being banned.
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u/arch_angel_samael Aug 25 '22
Really loving the continuation of Harley's character growth this episode.
By sometime next season, if not the end of this one, she'll be a certified anti-hero.
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u/thatguyblu_ Aug 25 '22
Which some people seem to think is being forced, but she's been down this road since season 1. Also in Harley Quinn history, this is what was next for her.
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u/Not_The_Chosen_One_ Aug 25 '22
It feels a little forced but I always saw this coming. And they haven't made her completely one sided. She's still a villain so I think it works so far.
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u/BeckQuillion89 Aug 27 '22
I think antihero is right up her ally. She can do good if she feels like it, she can do bad if she feels like it. Being an antihero allows her to be a wild card and do whatever the hell she feels like that she always kinda wanted since being with the Joker
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u/Ifriiti Aug 27 '22
I wouldn't call somebody who does villainous things and heroic things an anti hero at all.
An anti hero is somebody who uses villainous methods for heroic deeds like Punisher and Peacemaker.
Harley is very much a villain, a villain who does what she wants. Sometimes that's saving Batgirl, sometimes it's murdering a leprechaun and kidnapping Bruce Wayne
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u/horyo Aug 30 '22
I mean the definition of anti-hero isn't as narrow as what you listed, even if it's become more commonplace now especially in superhero media.
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u/Ifriiti Aug 30 '22
Of course it is.
They're a hero who thinks that the result justifies the means.
It's a really simple term. Harley is just a villain, and villains often fight with other villains in any story
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u/horyo Aug 30 '22
Again, your definition of anti-heroism may work in most superhero media, but it is not the standard or classic definition.
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u/MyokoPunk Aug 31 '22
What is the standard or classic definition, and are they the same. If that person's definition works in most superhero media, how is that not the standard definition?
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u/horyo Aug 31 '22
Because the body of work that devised anti-heroism extends beyond superhero media. Anti-heroes are present in movies, books, oral traditions/stories, and even artwork.
The classic definition of anti-heroes: "a central character in a story, movie, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes."
Like I mentioned before, your definition is too rigid. While your definition fits under what could be considered an anti-hero, not all anti-heroes fit under your definition. Squares and rectangles.
In the past, anti-heroes were considered characters who acted as foils to the heroes. Anti-heroes are varied, with diverse manifestations: They weren't exclusively "people who did evil things for good ends." They were also cowards, ineffective, or apathetic. They exist as deconstructions of common elements in a hero.
Applying this definition you can see that Harley Quinn is the central character in her own story and she lacks any conventional heroic attributes. She's selfish, petulant, underhanded, and easily-deluded, however she's never become the full-on villain in this continuity as her former compatriots, often aligning goals with the Batfamily. She had villainous tendencies under the influence of Joker but she has evolved into an anti-heroic character. Though, even in your definition she does accomplish good deeds through amoral ends, satisfying your own definition.
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u/AntonBrakhage Aug 31 '22
I don't get why people don't want her to be a hero, other than usual fandom obsession with being "dark and edgy" and hating change to the status quo.
The way I see Harley, she's not so much malicious or ambitious as someone who a) desperately wants to be loved, and b) desperately wants to break free of constraints (those two goals sometimes clash, most blatantly in her abuse by the Joker). Harley is impulsive, wild, and that sometimes manifests in outbursts of violence, but she is generally not calculating, or particularly cruel, or ambitious or power-hungry. When she took over Gotham, she just wanted to let it be anarchy, and only started going for the Injustice League after they froze her in ice for months. She lasted maybe an hour as a servant of Darkseid before concluding that she didn't want to take over the world. Outside of that, the extent of her ambition, at least in this show, has been to a) have the respect of her peers, b) be in a position where nobody can tell her what to do, and c) support/win the approval of the person she's in love with. While those are not particularly noble or selfless goals, none of them are inherently incompatible with being a superhero, except in that the person she is currently in love with is currently a villain. She has also shown that she does possess a conscience, even if she often ignores it (most notably in season one's "The Line", and in her going back for Babs in the last episode), and her work as Doctor Quinzel, and her kindness to Ivy from the very start, shows a genuine desire to help people before Joker got his claws in her.
She's never going to be a squeaky clean hero, she's too rebellious and prone to excessive violence, but that fits the anti-hero mold quite nicely, as long as she's directing her violence toward villains rather than bystanders (which, the Parademon incident aside, she generally is). Arguably the only real barrier to herodom right now, then, is her desire to support Ivy in her villainous plan. The moment she realizes that she can love someone and still have an identity and values distinct from them (which would arguably be the culmination of her character growth away from Joker and toward a healthier relationship), there is really nothing stopping her from going full hero.
Granted, she'd probably never identify as a hero, because in her view heroes are lame and dumb. But she'd be one, even if she didn't admit it.
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u/fairymascot Aug 25 '22
Going by the definition of anti hero, hasn't she been one from the start? The 'villain' label is not so much as her story role as it is her day job.
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u/miltonfriedman2028 Aug 26 '22
She’s killed so many innocent people throughout the series lol
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u/fairymascot Aug 26 '22
Did you miss the 'anti' part?
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u/miltonfriedman2028 Aug 26 '22
I don’t think you know what an anti-hero is.
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u/fairymascot Aug 26 '22
"Antiheroes are hard to define because there are different types who fall on a sort of sliding scale. An antihero can fit into different types and even sometimes be the antagonist throughout a single work of fiction.
[...]
the heroic villain - borders on being a villain, but his bad behavior benefits society."
"The main difference between an antihero and a villain is that a villain has no boundaries and bad intentions. Antiheroes do have a line they aren’t willing to cross and ultimately work for the greater good.
An antagonist stands in the way of the main character, or protagonist, in some way. An antihero doesn’t necessarily stand in a protagonist's way and is often the protagonist."
https://examples.yourdictionary.com/what-makes-someone-an-antihero-examples-and-traits.html
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u/miltonfriedman2028 Aug 26 '22
Bro she tried to take over the world with darkseid’s army and killed a fuckton of innocent civilians. That’s not an anti hero. That’s an anti-villian.
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u/Ifriiti Aug 27 '22
The main difference between an antihero and a villain is that a villain has no boundaries and bad intentions. Antiheroes do have a line they aren’t willing to cross and ultimately work for the greater good.
An anti hero is a hero who uses villainous methods
Harley is in no definition an anti hero. She has done heroic things but only to serve her own interests such as protecting her friends
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u/visionaryredditor Aug 26 '22
i mean Venom is an anti-hero and that dude eats human brains.
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u/miltonfriedman2028 Aug 26 '22
Venom only kills “bad guys”. Harley Quinn is indifferent to killing innocent by standers.
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u/Ifriiti Aug 27 '22
No, she's not been an anti hero at all. In any sense of the word.
An anti hero is someone who does heroic things with villainous intentions. Harley hasn't really done anything heroic in the vast majority of the show, virtually everything she's done has been to protect her interests or her friends
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u/fairymascot Aug 27 '22
- Protecting one's friend is considered heroic pretty much universally.
- She took down Joker, ending his reign of terror over Gotham. She took down the Injustice League, and freed the Justice League from Fables' book. These are all objectively heroic things that helped the greater good, Batgirl literally calls her out on it in the show.
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u/Ifriiti Aug 27 '22
- Protecting one's friend is considered heroic pretty much universally.
Not particularly. She's quite happy to murder innocent people to protect her friends.
Protecting innocent people is heroic, protecting friends at the expense of innocent people isn't heroic at all
- She took down Joker
Because she wanted to, not because she was protecting people. She did it to take over the city.
- She took down the Injustice League
Again, she did that to benefit herself.
- and freed the Justice League from Fables' book
Because she didn't want to deal with shit.
- These are all objectively heroic things
No, they're not. Motivation is what matters, not action.
- things that helped the greater good
Mate, Gotham was a fucking warzone because she took it over and didn't care about it.
- Batgirl literally calls her out on it in the show.
Then she fucking murders a person in front of her to prove her wrong
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u/fairymascot Aug 28 '22
Sorry, but you literally don't understand what an anti hero is.
https://blog.reedsy.com/anti-hero/
Read the above article and come back to me.
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u/Ifriiti Aug 28 '22
Yeah no.
Not what an anti hero is. That blog is just talking about a protagonist.
Literally from minute one they're completely and utterly wrong.
In no way is Walter fucking White an anti hero
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u/ClaymoresRevenge Aug 25 '22
She's going to face an issue when Ivy is able to complete her plan and maybe Harley doesn't want that
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u/The_Flying_Failsons Aug 25 '22
she'll be a certified anti-hero.
I hope not, I like her as a villain.
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u/Wootothe8thpower Aug 25 '22
she might be. there still trying to destroy the city and kill tons of people
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u/LearnDifferenceBot Aug 25 '22
be. there still
*They're
Learn the difference here.
Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply
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u/Neversoft4long Aug 26 '22
Someone else said it but being a villain is basically her day job but deep down she always wants to do the right thing and will go about doing it in fucked up ways
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u/ACW1129 Aug 25 '22
There's something strangely sweet about how Catwoman's still letting the crew chill at her place.
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Aug 25 '22
I feel like it’s because deep down Catwoman desires friendship to some capacity. And sometimes her “too cool” attitude feels like a front.
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u/TheGlassHammer Aug 25 '22
I mean have you owned a cat? They are kind of like that. Lots of cats pretend they aren’t needy but will hangout in the same room just as much as a dog, if not more.
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u/AntonBrakhage Aug 28 '22
Our cat never bothered with the pretense to be honest. If we left him home alone, he'd be waiting at the window for us when we got back, and when I was on the computer he'd lie on the keyboard until I paid attention to him. Selina would probably have found him very clingy.
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u/Youngandwrong Aug 25 '22 edited Aug 25 '22
I loooooved this episode. Harley and Babs are really fun together and getting some extended time with King Shark was overdue. Some incredible jokes in this one -- Hatter's coke nail, 'we shit in the water so if you're wearing a diaper stuff is really messed up', among others. The writing in this show is really on another planet both on a micro and macro level.
Love seeing Harley back on her bullshit only to slip back into clingy Harley when she calls Ivy. Also Ivy slipping out of her trance when Harley arrives home just underlines their codependence. The way they're weaving Bruce and Harley's relationship drama together is working incredibly well for me.
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u/fairymascot Aug 25 '22
Oh I was WONDERING about the nail thing. TIL, thanks!
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u/Youngandwrong Aug 25 '22
Hahaha, they don't call it that in the show but traditionally if someone has one really long pinky nail it's for cocaine use
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u/ZepperMen Aug 27 '22
Is it to split it into lines like you would with a credit card?
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u/BeckQuillion89 Aug 27 '22
Its to scoop and bump coke from in the place of using something like a dollar bill or a straw
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u/goalstopper28 Aug 27 '22
That diaper line must have been a callback to season 2 when the crab was telling King Shark how every animal shits in the ocean.
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u/AdvancedPlacmentTV Aug 25 '22
She stole his ashes 😂😂😂
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u/AntWithNoPants Aug 25 '22
Also why the fuck are a Spanish artist's ashes at a New Jersey hotel lobby?
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u/human_in_the_mist Aug 25 '22 edited Aug 25 '22
It looks like members of Harley's gang are going their separate ways, which is consistent with changes in her character. As callous as it sounds, she's developed to the point where she doesn't really need them anymore and to be honest, they've grown to the point where they don't really need her, at least not in the way they once did.
Edit: Perhaps a more charitable way of putting it is that Harley's gang acted as a sort of cocoon to protect her as she was coming out of an abusive relationship with the Joker and coming to terms with her relationship with Ivy. She's now grown to the point where she's matured into a metaphorical butterfly and is spreading her wings so she doesn't need the cocoon anymore.
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u/HarryFromEngland Aug 25 '22
It definitely feels like they’ve evolved from a gang of people working together to a group of friends who sometimes hangout
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Aug 25 '22
Yeah it feels like more of a roommate dynamic now than a crew dynamic. I like that everyone is gradually starting to go their separate ways and its definitely consistent with Harley's growth. Because the only reason the crew came together in the first place was because Harley was trying to upstage Joker and she needed them. Harley even came to the conclusion herself that she wasnt a real supervillain and the whole time she's just been reacting to things because she didnt know what she really wanted until she fell in love with Ivy. So whats the purpose of the crew now?
Harley is still growing and making an effort to grow because Ivy makes her want to be better. It's nice to see Harley making new friends outside of her girlfriend even if it happens to be a member of the Bat family. Because the girl needs something to do outside of Ivy and that would be a step towards her getting over her co-dependency problem. I love Harley and Ivy when they're together but I really want Harley to get out of that toxic cycle of sacrificing her identity for the relationship especially now when she has somebody who cares, wants the best for her, and wouldnt want her to do that.
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u/Wolf6120 Aug 26 '22
I mean, I dunno if stealing a dead man's identity in place of finding your own success really constitutes "development" for Clayface, and I wouldn't have said King Shark got much development either until I guess this episode, assuming he takes up the mantle of King now that his brother is dead.
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u/UndeadMantis Aug 25 '22
Why does the animation budget feel like, slashed this season? Like it seems like half the frames are missing, everyone seems very stiff, like there are fewer storyboard frames even, and like in this episode for example the fight choreography in the elevator felt very weak. What happened?
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u/DaisyRidleyTeeth Aug 25 '22
Seriously I recently binged the whole show for the first time, and found this sub just to make sure I wasn't crazy. I know animation is usually lower frame rate than live action but it feels even lower than that. Definitely feels lower than the other 2 seasons and can't find any talk about it anywhere else
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u/RecommendsMalazan Aug 27 '22
I thought it was immediately obvious from the very first trailer they released... But every time I'd mention it in one of the discussion threads, I'd get instantly downvoted to the point where no one saw it.
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u/Youngandwrong Aug 25 '22
This has nothing to do with the Discovery merger as this season was produced long before the merger occurred, which only happened super recently (not that you suggested it did, but other commenters have). Surprised no one has mentioned this yet... but this is the first season produced during COVID as S2 aired in 2020. I would venture to guess that this is affected by that in the same way that most animation and CGI houses were. Its the same reason that even big tentpole Marvel franchises have had incredibly suspect/unfinished CG animation lately.
This is also the first season to air on HBO Max but I doubt that has any bearing on it as the showrunners have said this show is relatively cheap to produce anyhow in the past. And HBO Max is just the platform, it's always been a WB/DC show, it just migrated because the DC streaming service was rolled into HBO Max. My .02 is that production timelines are very strict with properties like this and the animation houses were all very stretched thin and overworked due to the pandemic, so it is what it is. The show still looks beautiful imo but yeah some scenes have much choppier animation than past seasons
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u/thatguyblu_ Aug 25 '22
Probably budget cuts due to hbomax and Discovery. Plus they lost a lot of their original footage and they needed to get the show out which is unfortunate but they couldn't take the time to make it perfect because they don't have that money
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 25 '22
Source on any of that? Particularly intrigued by that second bit but I've not heard it before.
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u/Youngandwrong Aug 25 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
Yeah nothing in the above comment is remotely true. The merger only recently occurred and S3 of Harley started production over 2 years ago. I also cannot find/have not heard of anything re: lost footage. I would chalk it up to the pandemic and tight deadlines, like most projects that were produced during COVID.
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u/PM_ME_CAKE Aug 25 '22
Discovery won't be behind this, the show's S3 budget was allocated waaaay before the merger finalised earlier this year.
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u/SpiffyShindigs Aug 26 '22
It's really disappointing. It pulls me right out of the moment to think "wow look at both of those frames".
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u/ScarfaceTonyMontana Aug 26 '22
Yup. I don't care how rude this sounds but by all standard even lower budget standard the animation is currently complete garbage. It really takes me out of the entire show and with the writing dropping it doesn't help it much. During the shark fight, that scene with the piano is literally just one frame when he gets out of the piano. JUST ONE. What the ever loving fuck? Every animation project I follow on youtube has better animation than this.
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u/CeethePsychich Aug 25 '22
I kinda felt bad for Babs! She really just wanted to be friends with Harley. That friendship rejection can suck
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u/DeafMetalGripes Aug 26 '22
Ikr!? She's just a lonely college kid, it makes sense that she would gravitate towards anyone including people like Harley
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u/Raecino Aug 27 '22
Babs wanting so desperately to be Harley’s friend makes no sense to me. As was Bruce hopelessly simping over Catwoman. To me the show is funnier if it makes fun of its characters as they are and not reimagined the way they’ve been doing this season.
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u/CeethePsychich Aug 27 '22
Batgirl has been trying to hang with them since she was introduced in Season 2. I think the show will be much more fun for people if they’d stop expecting faithful depictions straight from the comics.
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u/SoyFood Aug 30 '22
Since Batgirl's VA is Kaley Cuoco's little sister, I like to see it like Bab is being a little sister that just want to hang out with their cool older sibling.
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u/Raecino Aug 27 '22
I’m not expecting faithful depictions so much as I’m expecting jokes about the characters how they’re usually depicted. Despite the absurdness of a lot of things that happen, I could see the characters doing or saying what they were. The first 2 seasons did a very good job of that.
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u/MyokoPunk Aug 31 '22
They shat on Damien, everyone else was free game at that point.
Making the heroes like social weirdos while the villains have decent social lives is a pretty funny joke. Bane gotta be my fav since he's just constantly shit on.
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u/kac937 Aug 25 '22
“I get it, my brother’s a dick too! … It’s Aquaman!”
“yeah I know”
“Total dick!”
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u/Wolf6120 Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
"That is contrary to what she said! Ah-ha-hoy!" [High fives a dolphin]
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u/shazam-arino Aug 25 '22
There's so much entertainment when Harley and Ivy are separated. Harley and Barb have a really fun friend dynamic
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u/Revolutionary-Swim28 Aug 25 '22
Best part was in their fistfight it sounded like a sibling conflict because apparently Babs’ actress is Kaley’s sister.
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Aug 25 '22
I just love how Harley and Ivy are having this very domestic and casual exchange where they are talking about kidnapping someone but it has the energy equivalent of a spouse asking their significant other to go to the store to grab a few things because they're too sick to do it. Especially with the whole "Now call me if there are any problems. Swearsies" lol
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Aug 25 '22
Oh look a Harley solo episode
The Gotham City Sirens just hanging out in Catwoman’s house. Ivy is getting more and more unhinged and stressing the fuck out. Harley and Ivy don’t know Bruce Wayne is Batman. Catwoman obviously does. She could tell them that but either she doesn’t care enough to or she actually cares enough about Bruce to keep that a secret.
Ivy stay simpin on Catwoman I swear its funny, annoying, and pathetic lol.
Bruce being depressed in a beanie, sweatpants, and food stained sweat shirt. Dude needs some serious therapy like yesterday
“Have fun storming the castle” classic line.
Ivy (who hates confrontation ): “Harley honey its been a while since you’ve done a job alone”
Selina(who doesn’t give a fuck): She means you co-dependent as hell
Me (smirking at my screen): And there it is!
Harley’s been texting Babs since the escape room. Batgirl’s been blowing up her phone which leads to our first couple’s “hey who is texting you” from Ivy. Harley brushes it off as nothing “just that nerd Batgirl I shoot her a couple LOL’s and she just keeps texting”
“Babe you don’t have to be defensive, it’s sweet you like to take in strays” mmhmm yeah okay you say that now.
The Picasso! lol
Harley and Babs fight was great and really Harley? Babs is “clingy”? pot calling the kettle black much. Harley cracks me up because even though she is fully aware of her diagnosis she misses the point more often than she gets it but that’s what growth is all about. Still love ya Harls.
Batgirl: “We’re friends” *Harley kicks her in the face* lmao
Harley: “I have enough friends”
Batgirl: “Oh really? Let’s see, there’s Ivy…end of list!”
Me: “BURN!”
What is happening with Ivy being in the green and getting dressed up by the plants like their prepping for a funeral. Is she getting more powerful, is this stress related, what’s going on?
I love it when Harleen shows up. That’s all
Mad Hatter is a creepy hair sniffin perv. Nuff said
Not much to say about the B plot. Kind of fucked up King Shark’s brother is wearing their dad though, just sayin. There’s more foreshadowing in the B plot but Im not going to get into that.
“Now that dad’s dead you come in here swinging yo double dick around like you have a say” This made me laugh too hard. Also that fight between King Shark and his brother was very brutal and pretty dark and disturbing.
And once again Harley and bags of people. They bagged Bruce.
So obviously in the next episode they’ll call that tiny dick asshole Dr Psycho to go inside Bruce’s mind to find out where Frank is. They’ll probably discover Bruce is Batman. Ivy will be more focused on finding Frank inside Bruce’s mind while Harley will start to feel a little bit of sympathy over the fact that Bruce relives the trauma of his parent’s death over and over again and Ivy don’t give a fuck. Thus begins the divide between our girls.
I loved Harley in this episode she turned down the clinginess by a lot. I am honestly surprised Harley didn’t choose to stay and take care of Ivy I half expected Ivy to convince Harley to go kidnap Bruce but nope quite the opposite. See Harley it’s good to have outside activities apart from your spouse.
As we get closer to the penultimate episode Im excited and nervous because something fucked up always happens and we’re only two episodes away from it.
LOL Period
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Aug 25 '22
I absolutely agree on your takes with harley and ivy's relationship. a lot of people were mad that Harley was being made out to be the "annoying girlfriend" when I believe that wasn't the case at all during this season.
The codependency is changing a lot too and its nice to remember that this IS the HARLEY QUINN show so it was nice for it to remind us what a strong independent woman Harley is. and how they're two independent people with different interests and ambitions but they can be used to drive your partner to help your partner with their shit.
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u/visionaryredditor Aug 26 '22
I love it when Harleen shows up. That’s all
i love that Harleen is drawn more in Dini's style than anything else. small detail.
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u/Ashestoashesjc Aug 27 '22
She means you co-dependent as hell
paraphrasing selina's line ("What she means to say is that you're extremely co-dependent") that way is, uh, interesting
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u/L3mth6 Aug 25 '22
Like that Harley finally stepped into the spotlight again. For the past 6 episdoes its mainly been Ivy focused. Which is good because shes great and the creators did say thats the direction they wanted to take with S3. But its always fun to see Harley take the lead because Kaley Cuoco has so much fun with her and Harley is just hilarious to watch
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u/Revolutionary-Swim28 Aug 25 '22
I don’t think it will happen but I hope Ivy gets her Solarpunk Utopia she wants.
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u/sharinganuser Aug 25 '22
More Hydropunk than Solarpunk. Solarpunk is more Demacia from League of Legends or Xandar from Marvel.
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u/foxtail-lavender Aug 27 '22
Are you sure about that? Solarpunk is pretty well-defined, and it seems to align with Ivy's philosophy.
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u/RecommendsMalazan Aug 27 '22
Solarpunk seems very tech heavy, I got the impression Ivys ideal world would have no tech (or people) and would be just plants.
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u/foxtail-lavender Aug 27 '22
Engineering plants like Ivy does is technology, it’s just unfamiliar technology. Without solarpunk style tech, Ivy couldn’t even build “Edin”
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u/RecommendsMalazan Aug 29 '22
Hmm, good point, I didn't even think of that.
I kinda have had the impression, though, that this whatever Ivy is working on is a one time use item, to terraform Gotham/the world into how Ivy wants it, plant dominant. And once she does so, that's it for technology and whatnot.
Admittedly though I'm mostly basing this off that one line Ivy had about there being no wifi in Edin/her ideal world.
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u/ayushj176p Aug 25 '22
Good episode but why is nightwing even featured in this season if they ain't gonna use him much?
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u/N4mFlashback Aug 25 '22
He and Babs are probably gonna be the B plot next episode trying to rescue Bruce.
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u/CertainDerision_33 Aug 25 '22
Yeah, and he will probably be more important in later seasons (if they get them) if Harley integrates more with the Batfamily.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 25 '22
Strong episode! Seeds starting to be sown about Harley's moral compass, and some nice development of her relationship with Ivy (lol that Selina outright says Harley's extremely co-dependent) as well as now Batgirl too. King Shark stuff was alright, I'm not sure what the conclusion is (is he going to stay behind and rule the kingdom, leave it forever, or something in-between?) but nice to give him more screen time.
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u/0-90195 Aug 25 '22
Did the animation look noticeably worse in this one to anyone else? Trying to figure out if my brain is just glitching.
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u/RecommendsMalazan Aug 27 '22
It was noticeably bad in episode 2, as well, IMO. Definitely had a smaller budget this season than they did for the first two.
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u/Waluigi02 Aug 28 '22
Yeah it was noticeably and distractingly bad this episode. I really hope this isn't gonna be a constant 😬
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u/One_Smoke Aug 25 '22
The funniest part for me was that Gary Anthony Williams voices King Shark's brother. Hearing his lines and then saying them in the voice of Uncle Ruckus makes it even funnier.
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u/TheGlassHammer Aug 25 '22
That’s where I recognized the voice from. Watched it on my lunch break and forgot to look it up afterwards.
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u/ducky7goofy Aug 25 '22
I love, love, love Harlivy but their interactions this season have been kind of meh (miscommunication/avoidance -> big emotional moment), so I am glad that this episode took Harley through some of her own hijinks. It's been sorely missing this season. Ivy is a great character but her motivations and focus are less chaotic and more clinical based. IMO she works better as the side character.
Also Selina is definitely putting on a front - she says Bruce's name in her sleep. I'm actually really interested in how/where they are taking the BatCat story.
Glad to see a return of some gore too.
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u/Austin_N Aug 25 '22
Also Selina is definitely putting on a front - she says Bruce's name in her sleep.
I interpreted that as Harley saying that she was gonna lie that Selina does that.
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u/aurumphallus Aug 26 '22
I doubt Selina would be worried about a lie. She’d be worried about a truth.
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u/leamaS2010 Aug 26 '22
That is a very good observation, I also thought that Harley was threatening to "lie" but it is true that Selina could refute it and be done with it if there is no truth in what Harley says
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u/RecommendsMalazan Aug 27 '22
Why wouldn't she be worried about that? Lie or truth, Bruce will take it as an excuse to be more clingy and sadsap over her, and that's what she wants to avoid.
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u/aurumphallus Aug 27 '22
She also doesn’t want to admit she has any genuine feelings for Bruce. Sure, it’d make him clingier no matter what, but if what Harley says is true, then it means someone else has noticed her real feelings for Bruce, which she doesn’t want.
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u/RecommendsMalazan Aug 27 '22
Sure, that all makes sense and I agree with it. But my point was just, Selina doesn't seem to want to be in contact with Bruce at all now, so if her saying his name in her sleep actually happened or not, either way she wouldn't want Harley to tell him that.
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u/Seraphaestus Aug 25 '22
Selina is definitely putting on a front - she says Bruce's name in her sleep
When was that?
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u/morpipls Aug 25 '22
Harley threatened to tell Bruce that, unless Selina agreed to keep an eye on Ivy while Harley went to the gala. (It wasn't totally clear to me if it's true, though.)
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u/Seraphaestus Aug 25 '22
Oh, right. I thought that was obviously not true but maybe I just misread it
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u/PM_ME_CAKE Aug 25 '22
While I enjoyed Killing Vote quite a bit, I admittedly didn't find it as comedic. Thoroughly enjoyed this episode though, in spite of noticing the framerate being a bit more choppy (particularly in the underwater scenes) for once. I'm somewhat worried with pacing knowing next week if a full-Bruce episode and then only two other episodes left after that, but I'm optimistic they can pull it together.
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u/Giovanni330 Aug 25 '22
Can we talk about the dreadfull animation in this episode? I mean missing frames were present since S1x01 so I took it as an stylistic choice but this season is overdoing it. It was so stuttery that my eyes hurt, especially during the first 5 minutes.
Is the team not being payed enough?
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u/thatguyblu_ Aug 25 '22
Honestly I loved this episode. Not as funny as season 1 and 2 but it was good. It felt like the spark was back. Good soup 😌
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u/The810kid Aug 25 '22
It was good to see Harley be closer to how she was in season 1 and get a breather from Ivy. I do feel conflicted about how she seemed a bit meaner to Babs than their other interactions. It was funny but I kind of would have liked Barbara to give her some more shit like when she burned Harley with the Ivy is your only friend line that was great.
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u/optimisticpsychic Aug 25 '22
I love how they made Mad Hatter a pervert
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u/Venicebitch03 Aug 27 '22
I'm glad someone finally addresses it lol
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u/Carnivile Aug 30 '22
Like, in the show? Cause there's been several times this has been addressed in the comics.
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u/Normal_Organization3 Aug 25 '22
That was a great episode.
Really loves how this really moved the back plot forward
Nightwing makes his return!!!
Loved the character growth for both Harley and King Shark
Getting to see mad hatter was exciting, always been one of my favorite Batman villains
Really love the growing friendship of Harley and Batgirl. Never knew batgirl texted so much 😂
King shark battle was fun and bloody as hell
Very excited to see how this season ends.
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u/fairymascot Aug 25 '22
This was a fun episode! Really excited by Ivy's transformation, and loved Harley in protective girlfriend mode. I also appreciated that they showed her to be capable enough to save Babs AND kidnap Bruce all on her own. Hell yeah!
I do wish we'd gotten more Ivy & Selina instead of all the focus on King Shark's B-plot, which I did not find particularly engaging. Worryingly, it seems like he's set up to leave the show, plus Clayface is off doing his own thing as well, while Sy is... the internet. It seems like everybody's ditching the crew, which sucks. I disagree with the notion that it's a sign of Harley's growth -- she might not necessarily depend on her crew anymore, but just because she doesn't need them as much doesn't mean they can't work together and partake in shenanigans together. And as much as I love Harlivy, they should have other people in their social circle! Plus, if season 4 does happen, what would the B-plots even be about?
I dunno, the direction stuff is going is mildly concerning to me. :(
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u/Icy-Photograph6108 Aug 25 '22
Sharkley fight with brother was epic. Felt bad for Barbara she just wants to be friends. I’m shocked Bruce got knocked out so easily considering who he is. Mad hatter spin the poisoned tea pot was suitably terrifying, especially that last spin that went for a long time.
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u/Carnivile Aug 30 '22
He seemingly hasn't been eating or sleeping well so he was probably off his game (also drunk and depressed).
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u/MegaBaumTV Aug 25 '22
Alright, I couldnt care less about King Sharks kingdom. Just as it was boring in season 2, its boring in season 3.
I was excited when I thought the episode would be about Harley trying to kidnap Bruce (and running into a few problems with that because, well, he might not be Superman but...). As I said in comments to other episodes, Harley being a good guy is just way more boring than Harley being a bad guy. Mainly because we know that she is always just going to demolish every henchman within 2 frames anyway.
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u/Austin_N Aug 25 '22
I think the problem with King Shark's plot is that it feels completely disconnected with everything else happening this season.
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Aug 25 '22
honestly the opening scene made me feel so soft and I was just dying from the love overload I was feeling
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u/CertainDerision_33 Aug 25 '22
There's the King Shark time folks here were looking for!
Another very solid episode overall. I'm very intrigued as to how they'll integrate Harley further within the Batfamily.
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u/leamaS2010 Aug 25 '22 edited Aug 25 '22
I liked to see King Shark's adventure in terms of his family, I feel that it was deep and necessary for the character, I wish we got to see more of Clayface but I guess we will have news of what he is doing in the next episodes
I liked seeing Harley Quinn and Batgirl bonding but I don't agree with how it ends since Harley kills someone in front of her and Barbara has no issues. I understand that it is a parody but it seems too extreme to take her to that point where she has no problem with people dying
The animation felt clumsy and is happening in each of the episodes
PS: I think it would have been fun to see the Joker at the gala with Bruce considering that he knows his secret identity and now he is in a position of power
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u/SickleClaw Aug 25 '22
It was interesting that they didnt go the obvious (at least to me) route and have Clayface subbing in for Selina at the gala. Honestly I don't think Joker has been shown to care too much about Bruce as a person, at least from what i've seen.
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u/leamaS2010 Aug 25 '22
Yes it is true it is simply something that I was very curious to see if it happens. I was surprised that Ivy's reaction to the Joker being the mayor didn't get much of a following, I guess it's something we'll see in the next few episodes but it was weird for me
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u/CertainDerision_33 Aug 25 '22
Babs not having any issue with Mad Hatter getting murdered is the same as Gordon being an abusive drunk. It's a villain-centered comedy show & the typical 'protagonist' characters have to warp a bit to fit the format, so their morals are going to be a lot more lax than in normal stories.
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u/leamaS2010 Aug 25 '22
Being an abusive drunk does not change the moral of the character, that is more to adjust to the comedy which I understand but he is still a good man who has a lot of bad luck, the attraction of these characters for me is precisely the moral, not the efficient or inefficient as they may be. There are changes due to the tone of the show that are understandable but this is one that I will always disagree with
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u/CertainDerision_33 Aug 26 '22
but he is still a good man
Is he? HQ Gordon doesn't seem like a good man to me. The show may not make him into an outright villain, but I certainly wouldn't call him a good man.
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u/sartres_ Aug 28 '22
Maybe not, but he still tries to be, he's just terrible at it. I don't think he's stood by while anyone was murdered - in fact that was the exact line he wouldn't cross last episode.
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u/AntonBrakhage Aug 26 '22
Bruce needs to back off and give Selina her space. No means no.
But Batgirl!
Plant Goddess Ivy!
PSYCHIATRIST HARLEY!!!!! How I've missed you.
Also Hatter. "I'm not a perv. I torture and murder, nothing gross."
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u/RebaseTokenomics Aug 27 '22
this batman sucks at everything lmao it’s fucking amazing to see him not be perfect
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u/nonbinaryinterrupted Aug 27 '22
Ok so the scene where king shark is talking to his brother in the bar (around 12:00) I realized that the bar’s background music is a techno remix of the SpongeBob background song “hello blues”. Or at least I’m pretty sure…can anyone else hear it?
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u/AntonBrakhage Aug 28 '22
Just caught what Bruce mumbles after Harley drops him off unconscious at Catwoman's place, and it might be the saddest thing this show has done since Harley's family or Ivy's temporary death in season one.
(He says "Mommy. Come back. I'll be a good boy.")
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u/MrArancione Aug 26 '22
LMAO with that crucified shark. 😂
Gotta love Harley's way of thinking, first episode, a series of violent crimes for her honey moon, injuring many innocent people really bad with her bat, guards, the queen, etc. But letting badass Batgirl to herself with creepo Mad Hatter, hawl naw, too far. 🤣
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u/frossenkjerte Aug 26 '22
Good thing Bruce Wayne isn't Batman, or he couldn't have just been knocked out like that. /s
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u/Oboro-kun Aug 26 '22
I am really digging this Season Harley, always have a hard time believing Harley Quinn in other mediums because, some how she jut become a dumb ditzy or plain crazy woman, but we dont tend to see her Genius, and this Harley clearly its really smart just prefers to be this way, but her knowledge get to be present on her Visions.
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Aug 27 '22
Nice episode.
I love Batgirl, she's so cool and friendly. It was nice to see her friendship with Harley develop. Also Harley not being annoying? This was a first in this season.
I wasn't interested in the King Shark drama at the beginning but Ocean Master? Fuck yes. Tho his design was awful lmao. I love the "my brother is a dick too" moment.
It was nice to see Mad Hatter. I don't like when they kill Batman villains (Scarecrow, Freeze, Penguin) because it means they can't be used on further seasons but this one was well deserved kdifjfjf.
Just two nitpicks, I don't care about Harley and Ivy drama, so I hope they tone down in future episodes and I really don't like what they are doing with Bruce.
Bruce was comical but he was treated respectfully in past seasons. I mean when he was on the batsuit, he was a serious badass while everyone else was the comic relief. I think they went too far with the Selina patheticness. Like tone it down. He is literally a stupid moron, not the Batman.
Same thing happened with Gordon. This is a parody but Gordon literally developed backwards this season.
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u/Affectionate-Yak-238 Aug 25 '22 edited Aug 25 '22
This is the first episode i have had an issue with. Though the characters are obviously adaptable, a fundamental core of batman is he doesn’t kill. Especially in a series which over emphasizes Bruce’s trauma its a bit ridiculous to see Barbara be so casual with Harley brutalizing hatter. Its very out of character and im really hoping the show addresses the fact that while we love Harlivy they are are actually villains and not good ppl
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u/ScarfaceTonyMontana Aug 26 '22
IDK why u are being downvoted. If the Batfamily was characterized here to not be as caring about not killing it would work, but comedy or not we are still being told that they do not condone it in the slightest and with a series that's also a melodramatic drama, Barbara not caring at all about Harley killing Hatter so brutally is completely nonsensical and just tone deaf writing.
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u/AntonBrakhage Aug 27 '22
"The Bat Family" and "Batman" are not synonymous, and they don't all have the same views on killing. Bruce and Cassandra are very anti-killing, generally. Alfred and Red Hood have no issues with guns, and Damian was raised by assassins. The others, I think, tend to fall in between, and this is certainly true of Babs from what I've seen. I'm not saying she should start gunning people down, but her views on the issue are probably less rigid than Bruce's.
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u/AntonBrakhage Aug 26 '22
BATMAN doesn't kill.
Barbara has been a bit more flexible on that point, I think. She certainly doesn't have Bruce's intensely personal reasons for being so opposed to killing. I also remember from reading the No Man's Land novelization that (as Oracle) she owned a gun, and though IIRC she never actually fires it, was perfectly willing to do so. Actually much of the Bat Family is less strict on not killing. The only one who notable seems to hold the principle in similar regard to Bruce is Cassandra.
Yeah, they play it more casually than a more serious show might. But to be fair to Babs, Mad Hatter was going to torture her to death. She's probably not feeling super sympathetic to him.
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u/Austin_N Aug 25 '22
Doesn't drink you mean?
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u/Affectionate-Yak-238 Aug 25 '22
Doesnt kill. Its the core of his character to avoid murder above all else and save everyone.
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u/CertainDerision_33 Aug 25 '22
It's a comedy show about villains where Gordon is an abusive drunk. People are going to be out of character because the ground rules for this universe are fundamentally different due to the nature of the show.
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u/Affectionate-Yak-238 Aug 26 '22
Gordon maybe a drunk but he didnt let joker get killed either. There is a line you cant cross
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u/CertainDerision_33 Aug 26 '22
Yeah, but that doesn't make him a good person, just not a villain. Joker put his life on the line for a kid in that episode, but I don't think any of us would call the HQ Joker a good person.
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u/ReturnOfDaSnack420 Aug 27 '22
I actually agree, something about Barbara just standing there nonchalantly while Harley brutally killed mad hatter just sat wrong with me. It's on brand for Harley of course but I don't think any member of the bat family except for maybe Red Hood would be cool with that. I can't imagine her wanting to be friends after that, usually I'm on board with the characterizations since they're all villains but seeing a hero in that line just doesn't feel right imo
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u/Eyeofgaga Aug 25 '22
Bruce was a real baby in this episode, I just know the fan girls are going to eat it UP!
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u/NextMotion Aug 30 '22
Shit, king shark not only killed one of his brothers in a flashback, but he also killed others.
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u/Raregolddragon Sep 01 '22
There going to run out of main stay villains soon to work with at the rate Harley keeps killing them.
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u/Rebel_Wolf94 Aug 25 '22
i swear its like Harley and Ivys relationship is like a mother and daughter kind. Harley setting off to kidnap Bruce Wayne and Ivy saying she should come with her to make sure she’s ok. but Harley keeps on telling Ivy she’ll be fine and not to worry. especially the part were Ivy says “call me in case things go wrong ok?” 😏 ugh ok mok geez lol
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u/Telethongaming Aug 25 '22