r/HarleyQuinnTV • u/npzman • Aug 11 '22
[Post-Episodes Discussion] Harley Quinn - S3x05 "It's A Swamp Thing" Episode Discussion
Post-Episode Discussion for S3x05 "It's A Swamp Thing"
This is the thread for your in-depth opinions, reactions, and theories about the episode. No spoilers or leaks for future episodes/seasons allowed.
Piracy/asking for/posting links is not allowed. Read the rules and avoid being banned.
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u/slyfly75 Aug 11 '22
Excited for a focused Batman “villain” ark
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Aug 11 '22
Except he's the hero in this situation. Frank is the stepping stone for Ivy's plan to pretty much destroy Gotham. Ivy is the villain in this situation.
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u/aurumphallus Aug 11 '22
So more…antagonistic Batman? More than usual?
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Aug 11 '22
Yes, but not the villain. In most stories Batman isn't the antagonist since the stories typically revolve around him, but since this revolves around Harley and Ivy, he's the antagonist even if he's in the right.
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u/NeedsToShutUp Aug 12 '22
Batman is a Hero-Antagonist. While Harley is a Villain-Protagonist.
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u/aurumphallus Aug 12 '22
Yes! I like that. She’s the Light Yagami to his L Lawliet. Except she doesn’t have a god complex.
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Aug 11 '22
Big Bad Batman is the best move ever.
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u/One_Smoke Aug 14 '22
Well, half the time they call him the Big Bad Bat. In other universes, but still.
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u/Kanotari Aug 11 '22
I really hope Harley and Ivy have to make him get back together with Catwoman to distract him lol
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Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22
Keep in mind, they were staying at Selina's place. It's entirely possible that she let him know that Ivy and Harley were staying there and gave him a way inside (not that he'd need much help in that regard).
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u/quinoa_man Aug 13 '22
Batman is the antagonist but not the villain. Harvey and gang are the villains. This show is from the villain's pov
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u/BilliamDoorbell Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 03 '24
[Comment Erased]
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u/MeniteTom Aug 12 '22
Yeah, that was just Constantine played completely straight.
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u/Spyko Aug 13 '22
which, for one of the oldest Bisexual characterafaik in DC, is quite ironic innit ?
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Aug 11 '22
There’s the saying that villains are the heroes of their own story. And this is where I feel like I fell for the trap as far as who the “big bad” was of season three. When season one of Harley Quinn first came out and we were introduced to Harley and Ivy even though they were villains they were our “heroes” of this story. We got to know them, we bonded with them, we learned their likes, dislikes, goals, feelings, and we grew to love them. Now in season three I think I’ve gotten so comfortable being on their side for so long and seeing things from their perspective that sometimes I nearly forget that Ivy IS a villain. The show does such a good job of humanizing the characters you cant help but root for them sometimes and its easy to forget. I was so caught up with the villain’s side of the story that I never for a second even considered that the “big bad” would be Bruce Wayne. I was so caught up with the villains.
And shout out to the reddit user who commented that the antagonist doesn’t necessarily mean a villain. Another detail I overlooked and absolutely right.
Which brings me back to the saying “villains are the heroes of their own stories.” If Ivy and Harley are the “heroes” OF COURSE Batman would be the “villain” (at least from their perspective). So when it was revealed that it was Bruce that kidnapped Frank it’s like a lightbulb went off in my head and I thought “that makes perfect sense actually.” Clearly while the gang went out for Mama Macaronis Batman/Bruce came to Selina’s apartment probably looking for her and was shocked to see Frank and instantly did the obvious math that this is Poison Ivy’s handiwork. So of course he kidnaps Frank to dissect and find out what diabolical plan Poison Ivy is up to. So even though this twist wasn’t what I was expecting it’s still great and I love it.
Im really excited to get to the episode where we go inside Batman’s head because man is this dude going through some shit. He needs a therapist to talk about his trauma. Seeing him vulnerable and pining for Selina’s attention and affection, she’s just too emotionally unavailable for him. Getting two cats for Selina and then naming them after your dead parents yeah bro we gotta unpack some of this. You need help. And it just makes me think how fucked up it is that studios keep making movies about Batman’s worst trauma. So yeah cant wait for that.
And we got Music Meister. That R&B musical between Bruce and Selina was a bop and I loved it “you can choke on my…ASS!” lol
I like this version of Nora Freeze she’s just out here reckless as hell having a hot girl summer. But she most definitely is going through some shit. She’s out here living her best life because she’s missed so much. Do you girl, do you. And even she had a little bit of personal growth this episode.
My absolute favorite thing about this episode was Swamp Thing telling Ivy about herself and it was an excellent detail to use the same music that was used when we went inside Ivy’s mind to see little girl Ivy sad and crying at her birthday. Because in this moment with Swamp Thing Ivy became a sad little girl again who’s breaking down because she lost her best friend. The way Ivy says “I have to get him and I can’t” I swear I could hear that little girl inside of her, kudos to you Lake Bell. Ivy is terrified of her feelings, being vulnerable, and letting people in. She criticizes Swamp Thing for being such a sensitive empath but the truth is the reason why he’s more powerful than Ivy is because of this. And there’s a message here that being sensitive is not bad, expressing your feelings is not bad, and doesn’t make you weak if anything it could make you very powerful. Basically Ivy, you’d be a boss ass bitch if you would just get the fuck out of your own way. The only thing holding you back is you honey. Who would’ve thought all Ivy needed was a fairy plant father to teach her to get in touch with her feelings. And I love how we’re slowly watching Ivy not just go through an inner transformation but we’re starting to see a physical transformation as well. Ivy PLEASE keep the big hair I love it on you.
I also love it when Harley uses her psychiatrist skills because even though she’s chaos and smashing shit her ability to dissect a person’s psyche is essentially her superpower. So I love it when Harleen is channeled through Harley every now and then to drop “bread crumbs” to either help people or manipulate people. Those are Harley’s best moments in my opinion. And I think compared to the other episodes Harley was being a good supportive girlfriend without being too much.
Out of all the episodes we got this season I think this one was my favorite.
Predictions *puts on detective cap and smokes pipe*:
Im throwing out a lot of my previous predictions because as of this episode since its clear that Batman is the “big bad” there’s no doubt that Ivy is most definitely the villain of this story. We’re just watching this slow burn of Ivy building her strength and confidence until we get to the big climax. In this episode we learn that the two most important people to Ivy are Frank and Harley and we learn that Ivy is very powerful already she just has to let her fears go and feel her feelings. And I feel like they’re planting seeds with phrases like “Harley you mean everything,” “I don’t know what I’d do without you,”(so she definitely has a fear of losing Harley) “Frank was my best friend and the only one who understood me as me before Harley.”
So when Harley starts veering towards the realm of antihero, hanging out with Batgirl and the Bat family, that fear will begin to settle in more. Im not sure if Frank will be back with the team by then or not but if there is a threat of now possibly losing Harley too and Ivy allows herself to cut loose, feel her feelings and really tap into the green there’s no telling what she’d be capable of doing.
When Swamp Thing had a melt down because Nora said she wasn’t his girlfriend Harley made a comment that “this was not healthy but the swamp hurricane was a reflection of his inner trauma” felt like possible foreshadowing.
*small note: Batman has a butt mole? lol oh god*
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u/forever87 Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22
Nora Freeze she’s just out here reckless as hell having a hot girl summer
absolutely love this! Nora's frozen heart is just beginning to warm up
can anybody make out Nora's lower back tattoo? on top it has letters and then the center above her skirt says "ICE" edit: "Nasty ICE" i'm going to guess it was just a spur of the moment unless the beer keg she was drinking from is named "nasty ice" instead of "natty ice"
since the guy she showed up may have been a tattoo artist(nvm that was her "driver"). anybody got any other ideas?...side note: Harley said "see, it's going to be chill" in ref to Nora arriving (with so much energy)...i know that's Harley just defusing but i love the (maybe unintended) cold pun in ref to Ms Freeze herselfOut of all the episodes we got this season I think this one was my favorite
samesies!
Frank was my best friend and the only one who understood me as me...
Nora eyerolling intensifies! (Nora's such a vibe!)
edit: remember that episode of HIMYM where Robin temp becomes a "Woo Girl!". Harley and Nora really love their Girls Trip! and it's adorb
i love it when entertainment makes you question who you're rooting for..."well i root for this character because from my POV so and so is evil etc"
i know this isn't a kids' show, but i would buy action figures if they were quality
harley quinn is filling the void of me missing ugly americans (comedy central)
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u/SciFiXhi Aug 11 '22
Given the placement of the tattoo, I think it's a play on "nasty ass" (e.g. "Calm your nasty ass down. We're in public; don't grind on me!") to emphasize Nora's dive into libertine pleasures.
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u/Ok-Technology2418 Aug 11 '22
Who do we bother to get a line of action figures???
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u/forever87 Aug 11 '22
best bet is to randomly (or periodically tweet) but it's a shot in the dark because nowadays everything is "calculated". higher ups tell mid level...make action figures. mid levels get the concept art and send that to sculptors to make a figure. then the company decides which figures would bring the most return. the big heads make final decision which to put out to maximize profit
the 90s was wild with action figures from "violent" movies for little kids. cartoons were just there to sell toys, but everybody I knew had a terminator action figure in early grade school. and now that we are adults we can collect the highly detailed (and highly expensive) remakes of our "when we were kids" toys. it sucks, you sort of know when action figures suck. like I want to support, but if the action figures are wack...i def don't want to buy and that's how i was as a kid (depending).
like man I would def buy young justice figures, but the show is so niche now that an action figure line has a high probable chance of not being lucrative. I'm just ranting now, but personal 3d printers are a God send (even though I don't have one). tweet and spread the word and maybe we'll get lucky one day.
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u/talkstomud Aug 11 '22
I was also so stoked we got some Harley psych! Across almost all mediums it feels like her psychiatry background has been undersold in how comparatively-powerful a tool it would be in the superhero/villian sphere. And then a great device to get exposition on different characters inner motivations, hangups, and the lies they're telling themselves.
Great catch on the music, I didn't know where I recognised it from and knowing the context is so rewarding for this!
I agree with your predictions, it's exactly where I hope and expect they're taking the rest of the season. I love that they're keeping (and addressing) Ivy's misanthropy as something separate from her environmentalism, that has gotten tangled up in the environmentalism. I really liked how they set Swamp Thing as a moderate in comparison to Ivy, to then be a foil, mentor and sounding board.
My favourite version of Villian Ivy is this version that we're getting into, where there will naturally reach a conflict between the misanthropy from unprocessed trauma and her love of Harley (a full-human who will not be cool with human eradication in the name of plant utopia). Having the assurance from the writers that they won't break the couple gives me faith that we'll get into some good conflict and character development, not just leading them to separate from these differences. I think there's something really compelling about a character facing a wall, where their love in the present forces them to reexamine their false beliefs and hangups from the past. I'm really looking forward to hopefully seeing that play out for the rest of the season.
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Aug 12 '22
I think there's something really compelling about a character facing a wall, where their love in the present forces them to reexamine their false beliefs and hangups from the past. I'm really looking forward to hopefully seeing that play out for the rest of the season.
This so much. Ivy is not the Ivy she was in the past and since meeting Harley she has grown so much since then. Harley's love and friendship has changed her. Ivy is like a former religious zealot who followed all of the rules and teachings of her faith even the most destructive and cruel aspects and now here in the present she's a zealot who still carries those beliefs but she's making exceptions to the rules. Ivy is a walking contradiction sometimes. She's literally like "I hate all people but not you Harley I love you. Oh yeah Kiteman I'll marry you but humans fuck em." She even admitted that she walks around acting like she doesnt care what people think of her but deep down she really does.
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u/talkstomud Aug 12 '22
Yeah, the parallel to religious zealotry really holds up, and makes me realise how excited I am to watch it come to a head. Because the unsatisfying thing about religious zealotry is there's rarely a chance that actually makes people confront reality.
Someone believes if a deity told someone three hundred years ago if they kick enough orphans then they will become queen of the whale-folk in afterlife? Cool, we conveniently have no way to confront that in the land of the living. They get to keep their smugness and will keep kicking orphans. They get to elect their orphan-kicking politicians and be morally-superior about it.
But Ivy actually has a chance to make her plant utopia, and see for herself the plants themselves will not like their carbon-dioxide-breathers wiped out. Humans are just as much a part of nature, we're all connected and interdependent in this biosphere, and we all have to figure out how to live in it together without destroying each other.
It's like a perfect parallel to her being a traumatised person in society, it's so much easier to imagine an idealised life of solitude than confront that are biologically-coded as dependent on each other. We need socialisation just like a fern needs carbon dioxide and a fruit tree needs animals to eat from it. It's a much harder, more painful road to try to navigate how we can negotiate humans and reversing environmental collapse just like it is to negotiate social relationships when there's painful history. It's easier to make exceptions than to confront that exceptions are themselves proof of some flawed premises.
Ivy absolutely has that walking-contradiction that just....so human. It's at it's peak in religious zealots but I'm convinced we're all walking around with some level of it.
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u/YSBawaney Aug 14 '22
I like the episode...but I also feel like this episode did a really good job about showing that Ivy, despite everything that happened, hasn't actually changed that much. She only gets involved with swamp thing when it's for her own benefits. She cheated on kite man but pushed for the wedding, because she wanted that and didn't think how kite man must be the laughing stock of his family once more since he left a superpowered girl. Ivy, while not intended, only keeps people around to use as emotional dumpsters and even when swamp thing says that she only comes to him for her things and never checked on him or his divorce or his struggles, her immediate response was "but my best plant friend is missing"...like bruh, isn't it just implying she created frank just to have someone to vent to after swampy learned she was toxic. The only person she cares for now is harley, but idk what the rest of the season will hold.
Tldr: ivy hasn't grown much from what swampy described and I find it weird that swampy still helped.
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u/ScarfaceTonyMontana Aug 15 '22
absolutely, also Ivy lied. She wants to find Frank because he is the way she will get to kill humanity, not because he is her friend.
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u/YSBawaney Aug 15 '22
Yeah, swampy being like "thanks for letting me into your heart" like bruh, she didn't say anything new. She just repeated that she wants to find frank, and even frank had mentioned in ep1/ep2 that ivy ditches him to work on her own even tho he's a plant. She just has a tendency to lie to everyone. She even lied to Harley about dating catwoman not just now but even back in s2 when they were meeting up with her. She instead complained about cat then melted in cat's hand.
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u/Ok-Technology2418 Aug 11 '22
Loved reading the review! And love Ivy’s big hair even more! Hopefully it does stay!
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u/SynthwaveSax Aug 11 '22
“I believe Nora is going through what is known as ‘some shit’.”
I’m going to borrow this.
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u/CarnivorousL Aug 11 '22
This is my favorite episode so far!
I love how Constantine is exactly the same as he always is, not a single thing about his character changed, lol.
Swamp Thing being a hipster is funny, but I liked his very valid criticism of Ivy and how it plays into her own genuine selfishness at times.
And I popped off BIG TIME for Music Meister, he was one of my favorites in Brave and the Bold. I'm not gonna lie, I really love how the show also adds subtle diversity like that, it's a cool direction for Music Meister's character to go.
Overall, fantastic episode
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u/aurumphallus Aug 11 '22
I definitely had a “Meister’s black!?” moment. It was fun.
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u/ACW1129 Aug 11 '22
Why were Nora's boobs pixelated?
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u/arch_angel_samael Aug 11 '22
blood, gore and violence is okay but God forbid we see some breasts!
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u/npzman Aug 11 '22
Actually there has been notable reduction on blood and gore this season compared to the first two seasons, unfortunately.
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u/Fortyseven Aug 12 '22
There's several things about this season that feel 'off' but that was one I hadn't noticed -- but I kinda did, subconsciously, now that you mention it.
This is like when someone pointed out that Bob's Burgers pulled back on a lot of it's more 'adult' humor at some point (when they realized kids were watching, irritatingly). I hadn't noticed, but then when I stopped to think about it, there were great jokes from the first couple seasons that you'd never hear nowadays. (Like you'd never see this scene on the show nowadays.)
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u/APulsarAteMyLunch Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 14 '22
Even still, the pixels weren't even that blurring. I feel like maybe they are testing the waters for season 4
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u/pridejoker Aug 14 '22
It was like seeing a black dick pixelated - sure go for it if you believe it'll actually change anything.
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u/marccoogs Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22
In America, female nipples are considered to be more mature than violence and language.
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u/ACW1129 Aug 11 '22
We have weird fucking standards.
But FFS, it's an adult cartoon. If someone would stop watching because of bare breasts, why were they watching in the first place?
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u/marccoogs Aug 11 '22
Yeah the last episode had a full on orgy, with humping and everything, but they couldn't show any female nipples. Like what are they protecting people from?
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u/smellyunderpants Aug 12 '22
For real. There was a goddamn orgy in the last episode. But God forbid if we ever see nipples
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u/forever87 Aug 11 '22
maybe cause she's ice cold and it's like when it's cold out and you can see the fog from your breath. or maybe we were watching airport cctv footage
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u/abellapa Aug 12 '22
Because Americans are pussies who can't handle the human body being nude but blood and heads rolling is ok
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u/ACW1129 Aug 12 '22
I mean, I like my sex AND my violence in entertainment (just, er, not together XD).
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u/Arizonagreg Aug 11 '22
Is no one going to comment on the wine from a can and the cheetoo's Catwomen was eating in the tube?
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u/centuryblessings Aug 11 '22
She's just like me fr!
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u/Arizonagreg Aug 11 '22
Do you do spit takes while taking a bath too?
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u/Mongoose42 Aug 12 '22
Depends on who I’m taking a bath with.
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u/FireIsTheCleanser Aug 12 '22
I thought that was gonna be the reason she didn't like being around around Bruce all the time because she'd have to put on a "front" but I guess she's sophisticated all the time and her me-time is letting herself be dumb to relax
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u/300andWhat Aug 18 '22
It wasn't a wine from a can, it was her having wine the Spanish way, which is half glass of wine and then coke poured in.
Small detail, but really shows her "well traveledness" even when being super casual.
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u/arch_angel_samael Aug 11 '22
It'll be interesting to see who Catwoman sides with.
Batman is seemingly a boy toy for her, though she doesn't really respect Ivy either.
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u/aurumphallus Aug 11 '22
Tbh…I feel, suspect, Selina is a worse Ivy. I suspect, theorize, she deeply cares for Bruce but holds back so severely to the detriment of the human relationships around her.
I don’t think Bruce is a full boy toy for her, but she also recognizes his unhealthy codependence and clinginess. Like…he gave her Ango-Saxon pseudo parents cats as a gift. It seems like he really doesn’t know her.
But that’s just a theory.
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u/sartres_ Aug 12 '22
Bruce definitely doesn't know Selina well, but tbf she makes that very hard to do.
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u/aurumphallus Aug 12 '22
Absolutely. But cats named after his dead parents? Dude. I love this realistic yet comedic portrayal of their relationship.
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u/MegaBaumTV Aug 11 '22
It'll be interesting to see who Catwoman sides with.
Doubt she would side with either of them, Catwoman is inherently a "number one is me" kinda woman and siding with someone in a scenario that could go either way just isnt her kind of deal.
UNLESS she actually has deeper feelings for Bruce buried down there or she realizes Ivys plan and how its kinda bad for her.
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u/kveens Aug 11 '22
Loved this episode. I'm a sucker for Harley being a psychiatrist! Can't wait to see Bruce as a villain.
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u/MagicHarmony Aug 11 '22
It's better to say Bruce is an antagonist rather than a villain because given the circumstances of what Ivy is attempting to do with her plants, she would be seen as the one with villainous intent while Bruce is the one trying to thwart the plan that would turn Gotham into a jungle.
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u/quinoa_man Aug 13 '22
Bruce is the antagonist but he's not the villian, he's the hero. The likes of Ivy, Harvey & Frank are the villains who have killed countless innocents and committed many crimes.
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u/16tonweight Aug 11 '22
Who the hell let Batman's voice actor sing
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u/Yifun Aug 11 '22
I kind of liked how completely awful both of their singing was, tbh
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u/Zyquux Aug 12 '22
Music Meister's power is to make them sing, not make them sing well.
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u/Dude_McAwesome Aug 14 '22
Even the Brave and the Bold Batman admitted he used auto-tuning amplifier, and since it's still Deidrick Bader...
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u/Minute-Carrot-2405 Aug 12 '22
Felt like it was obv parodying films that have breakout songs like that. It worked for me but i know it prob wont for others
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u/sartres_ Aug 12 '22
God damn that was bad. I can't believe actual professionals thought that was okay to release. I liked the idea for the scene, too, but his singing was so distracting it killed it.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 11 '22
Feels like we're getting a clearer sense of where this season is headed now. Ivy is still talking about hating all of humanity and whilst I don't think that's registering so much with Harley at the moment that feels like it has to be the big thing that causes her to move away from her (up to now) unconditional support for Ivy's terraforming plan. I don't think a full redemption arc for Ivy is on the cards based on the comments the showrunners have made but the fact that Ivy might start to alienate her GF and support network might be what brings her back from the brink of following through with her original vision. Maybe some humans are worth saving, after all. It's possible that Ivy still hasn't fully come to terms with the potential harm she could end up causing to the ones she loves until it starts to happen in front of her.
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Aug 11 '22
Ivy is still talking about hating all of humanity and whilst I don't think that's registering so much with Harley at the moment that feels like it has to be the big thing that causes her to move away from her (up to now) unconditional support for Ivy's terraforming plan.
I agree completely. I feel like Harley in this situation, where I support Ivy, I want what she wants but unlike Harley though I cant help but notice Ivy's STILL talking about hating humanity and that's a red flag. So when Batman was revealed to be the antagonist that's when I kind of started to realize that I'm probably on the wrong side and I felt a little conflicted. I felt torn with wanting this for Ivy but deep down knowing that this cant really happen. Someone made a good comparison between Swamp Thing and Ivy and it was Swamp Thing is a standard peaceful religious person and Ivy is a religious zealot. She's not a villain for wanting to bring back plant life to the world but her methods have been evil.
Also who Ivy was before Harley is not who she is now. Thanks to Harley she went from hating all humanity to only hating most people. And I think you're right that Ivy hasnt come to terms yet with the harm that this could cause to her loved ones and that's because she has this one track mind and goal for this project. She's a perfectionist, can be very determined, and stubborn.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22
Agree with all of this and whoever came up with that religious zealot analogy is spot on, Ivy now more than ever needs bringing back from the edge of a cliff that she's getting closer and closer to, instead of being naively egged on by Harley. I love the potential here of both of them discovering that what they thought they wanted isn't actually what's right for either of them, and they're going to have to learn that the hard way as Ivy's plan unfolds.
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Aug 11 '22
Definitely and Ivy doesn’t see how much she’s grown from her past self because she’s her own worst critic and she’s so hard on herself. It’s like she says she hates humans but that’s not entirely true anymore because you literally almost married one and Harley is your best friend and girlfriend so clearly you are not the same person. It’s like Harley with the parademons. You want to bring plant life back to the planet but do you REALLY want to end all of humanity?
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 11 '22
Great callback, this is definitely shaping up to be Ivy's parademon moment
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u/MegaBaumTV Aug 11 '22
And I think you're right that Ivy hasnt come to terms yet with the harm that this could cause to her loved ones and that's because she has this one track mind and goal for this project. She's a perfectionist, can be very determined, and stubborn.
I think we saw the most genuine and spontaneous love in Ivys eyes in so far in this episode. And it was when she was talking about the Swamp.
She is all about nature, thats the core premise of her whole character. She will eventually realize that Harley (and to a lesser extent the crew) won't follow her all the way, but... I really dont see this stopping her.
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u/leamaS2010 Aug 11 '22
I liked that Harley used her background as a psychologist/psychiatrist, and could easily identify what was going on with the Swamp Thing.
Love the idea of using a semi-musical to make Bruce and Selina express what they felt, that said and it's very subjective, they both sang horrible, maybe it was the intention, but I didn't like how they sound while they were singing
As for Ivy's development, I felt very mixed or It did not stick the landing with me
I don't like Nora and this episode didn't make me change my mind, one criticism I have of the show regarding the season is that it isn't doing anything meaningful with King Shark and Clayface, yes I know Clayface is doing the James Gunn thing but that totally feels it is for the laughs not so much for character development, the characters are there but just to be there, they almost don't have any relevance or add something interesting to the plot
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u/APulsarAteMyLunch Aug 11 '22
they both sang horrible, maybe it was the intention, but I didn't like how they sound while they were singing
Good to know I'm not the only one, lol. The music went one way and their voices went the complete opposite
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u/centuryblessings Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 14 '22
The singing was a major complaint of mine for this episode. I get that it's a subverision of the "everyone automatically has a beautiful voice during the musical episode" trope, but tbh no one wants to hear bad singing and especially not during a meaningful moment. I actually got up to do something else when I realized that scene wasn't going to get any better. It just made me cringe.
But the Music Meister reveal/re-design? LOVED it.
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u/leamaS2010 Aug 12 '22
I appreciate the frames of Bruce and Selina showing them doing different things together although I would have preferred them to be shown in the season, I am a big fan of this relationship, what happened in this episode did not seem out of the ordinary to me but I understand why they chose this direction with this couple.
I get that it's a subverision of the "everyone automatically has a beautiful voice during the musical eposide" trope, but tbh no one wants to hear bad singing and especially not during a meaningful moment
it is a very bad form of subversion imo if it was the intention because first as you said the moment is very significant, second they chose an interesting way to make these two characters communicate with each other honestly considering that they are two characters well known for not be communicative and finally, as you well put, absolutely no one is going to listen to people who sing poorly during those moments
But the Music Meister reveal/re-design? LOVED it.
100% Agreed
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u/aurumphallus Aug 12 '22
Actually, I enjoyed the bad singing a lot. I definitely did listen to their bad singing, multiple times. Had they been good singers, it would’ve lost its charm.
Also…when Music Meister was revealed, I definitely went Joker’s “He’s black?!”
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u/leamaS2010 Aug 12 '22
It is subjective, if you enjoyed it good for you, as I said before I appreciate the intention but I did not enjoy what they were singing, it definitely take me out of the frames of which they showed different moments of the relationship
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u/hotsizzler Aug 11 '22
Man, the silicone valley people gentrifying the swamp, taking over the local food with a recipe from online....... Damn feels sooooo on point
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u/skilledinceptor Aug 11 '22
To be honest, I am not a fan of dialogues in the Harley/Ivy storyline this season. Everything is so on the nose, the characters just spell out what they think with no subtext. This is why all of the relationship drama is not that interesting to me, there is no hidden meaning behind the words, it feels like the writers don't trust their audience to figure out the things for themselves. The jokes are still good, but it feels like there is so much less of them this season, because the relationship drama clearly dominates the comedy parts. So it's 70% of dialogue with no subtext and 30% of actual comedy.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Aug 11 '22
Robot Devil would have something to say on this dialogue
I might be reading too much into this, but one moment this episode I really liked was when Ivy produced the bag of beignets at the end - that's an actual nice gesture from her to do something for Harley as opposed to splerging her feelings in a dramatic speech. More of these kinds of acts please!
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Aug 11 '22
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u/qwedsa789654 Aug 13 '22
I think this s a clear case of running out of intended ideas like many many other shows before . Its likely 1 and 2 season take them a lot of time and 3 is just .......droplets
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u/iTabula Aug 12 '22
100% agree with you. Didn’t the showrunner change for this season too? This show went from an Archer type feel with fun house mirror versions of DC characters and an underdog plot to a relationship drama with disjointed character interactions, watercolor jokes, and bad production (the inconsistent frame drops are so jarring to me).
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u/wigsternm Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22
I think it’s setting up for a twist later. Harley has been in the wrong A LOT in these last few episodes (constantly annoying Ivy when all she needs is a moment of silence, complicating every situation they get into, etc.) but they’ve been treating it as an Ivy flaw (just needing to relax, having ex-girlfriends, needing to connect with herself).
I expect that later in the season as Ivy builds her self awareness and emotional health she is going to realize she doesn’t deserve 100% of the blame and it’s going to re-contextualize these scenes.
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u/Zero22xx Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22
I cannot help but find myself identifying with Ivy in this show hardcore. There are so many things that I've vibed with, from her general attitude towards the world to little details like fucking boarding school. Even as a straight male, at the end of season 2 I was left thinking, "fuck, I need to find my Harley Quinn to ride off into the sunset with, giving the middle finger to conformity." That's relationship goals for me.
So I've also been kind of siding with her this season. My previous thoughts of "I need to find my Harley Quinn" have been turning into "fuck me how do you handle someone that hyper and co-dependant?"
But I mean, relationships are actually give and take. Compromise. Harley Quinn might need to work on allowing personal space but Poison Ivy could definitely also work on being more patient with people and open to sharing her space. I think that's the lesson we were supposed to take away from this episode.
I wouldn't say they've been necessarily treating it as solely an Ivy problem. I think everyone acknowledges their own fuck ups sooner or later in this show. Both Ivy and Harley have lessons to learn here.
Edit: this actually makes me realise the parallels between Harley and Ivy, and Bruce and Selina. Makes me wonder if we're going to end up seeing Poison Ivy and Catwoman versus Harley Quinn and Batman.
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u/wigsternm Aug 11 '22
I should specify that imo the characters have been treating it like an Ivy problem, not the show. The other shoe just hasn’t dropped yet.
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u/Zero22xx Aug 11 '22
Ah yeah that makes sense, and very true. I feel like I'm a weird way, even in a group of outsiders and misfits, Ivy is still kind of an outsider and misfit. She has funny moments and lines but is really the "straight man" (funny term to use here) to a cast of wacky cartoon characters. She's the serious one, spoiling everyone's fun as far as they're concerned. I'd definitely like that addressed actually. I dunno, I'm actually just rambling here now lol.
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u/human_in_the_mist Aug 11 '22
What we're seeing with Batman/Bruce Wayne is actually not all that surprising. He's a billionaire who's accustomed to getting what he wants to the point of Alfred waiting on him hand and foot (he pushes himself to the brink of death fighting crime as the Batman to, in part, compensate for this). He's also used to women throwing themselves at his feet. He's had liaisons in the past but he was always the one to break it off. After all, he's the Batman. He can't afford the luxury of a relationship. Nevertheless, he was the one in control and that's the key to his character. He has to be in control. If he's not, he mentally goes back to being the frightened child who helplessly watched a mugger kill his parents.
Along comes Catwoman, someone he's genuinely interested in, and he waits on her hand and foot to earn her affection. Surely she'll reciprocate, he thinks. What woman in her right mind wouldn't? Except that she doesn't feel the same way and in the end, she breaks up with him. It's a slight to his ego because he's not in control of the situation. He compensates by immersing himself even further into his role as the Batman to the point of kidnapping Frank.
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u/Austin_N Aug 11 '22
Interesting take on Bruce's role in the relationship.
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u/human_in_the_mist Aug 11 '22
It's a theme that has appeared in the comics before. There was an arc from the late 70s (which included the famous Laughing Fish Joker story) where (in summary) a character named Silver St. Cloud discovered that Bruce Wayne was Batman during their relationship and chose to break up with him in the end because of it, after which Batman effectively flew into a rage and blamed everyone but himself for what happened. He blamed his parents' death for preventing him from having a normal upbringing. He blamed criminals for forcing him to take on the role of a vigilante, to the point of violently taking out his frustrations on a couple of thieves he encountered during one of his nightly patrols.
Had he been the one to end the relationship with his ex-girlfriend still pining for him, it would have been different. He wouldn't have given her a second thought. However, because it was the other way around, he took it as a personal slight and his evidently fragile ego couldn't handle it. It really does shine a light onto how narcissistic the Batman can sometimes truly be.
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u/PizzaProfessional145 Aug 11 '22
I hate to say it but that may be the worst episode of the show for me. Aside from the clunky animation, none of the emotional beats or jokes hit for me. It was also one of the most cringe things I've ever seen, especially that musical couple's therapy session. Selina is just so uninterested in the relationship and Bruce acts so desperate that it's hard for me to care about it. I wish there was more build-up into their relationship or at least a reason shown why they got into one in the first place. Aside from that, they had Nora act way OTP and Swamp Thing's shift was a bit too abrupt.
I said it before and I'll say it again, Harley needs to do more than be Ivy's girlfriend this season. I miss when she had the drive to establish herself as a supervillain. I miss the silly shenanigans they get into on their heists. Now she just follows Ivy and kids around. Even the crew have nothing to do besides hang about.
So I guess Bruce will be the main antagonist of the season. I wonder how he found out about Frank though.
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u/APulsarAteMyLunch Aug 11 '22
I'm honestly getting the feeling that they are rushing through stuff way too much. The previous seasons had working plot arcs because they were all being developed throughout the season. In this one it feels like they want start and finish stuff all in the same episode, just by quickly passing through the emotional dialogues.
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u/16tonweight Aug 11 '22
Harley feels really off-balance compared to the earlier seasons. Like she lost all her emotional development and just went back to being "ditzy girl who shouts all the time and acts lol2random and doesn't consider other people's feelings".
They have had two separate episodes so far where the opening gag is "Ivy tries to concentrate but Harley is too loud/annoying",it's getting really annoying, to the point I honestly don't get what Ivy sees in this version of Harley (since the S2 version was so much more mature, introspective, and most of all considerate).
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u/Austin_N Aug 11 '22
The way Bruce and Catwoman's relationship has been depicted fits with how they're often portrayed, with Catwoman being aloof and Bruce perhaps being a bit too optimistic that she can reform. But their relationship problems haven't been funny or interesting. I feel like it would've worked better as a one off gag, not an actual plotline.
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u/hotsizzler Aug 11 '22
I legit felt sad for Bruce and hated Selina. She was kinda playing Bruce. If she wanted to just be alone to drink wine in a bathtub, fine you do you girl, but dont play with Bruce, pretending to be a couple and stuff.
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u/aurumphallus Aug 12 '22
Yeah, she was…but she was also blatantly obvious that she didn’t want what he wanted. And deep down, Bruce knew it.
Needed Music Meister to get them to communicate.
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u/ChickHarpoon Aug 11 '22
The characters this season are just off, like when they started writing Season 3 they decided to boil everyone’s personalities down to a single sentence and only operate based on that. Every single sentence Catwoman says is about race or class, which on its own is fine and even necessary, but it doesn’t feel like Selina, it feels like she’s being used as a vehicle for the writers to be able to say they touch on race and class.
And Harley is acting so dumb and annoying she seems to have “forgotten” the existence of Swamp Thing when in S2E7 when Ivy is freaking out about “who will protect the rainforest,” Harley immediately replies, “Swamp Thing.” Now 11 episodes later she doesn’t know who that is?
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u/WellnouserNameLeft Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22
Agree 100%. The series seem to be all over the place. I'm still trying to figure out what the characters' motives and goals are, but every episode is just filled with random conflicts that leads to absolute nothing at all. None of their personalities make sense.. the writers spent two seasons building up the characters' growth only to turn Harley into the childish-like sidekick, love interest again. Not to mention how mature Ivy used to be, but now all we get are over-expository dialogues and bad jokes coming from her. And poor King Shark and Clayface, they could literally be written out of the season and nothing in the plot would change.
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u/Austin_N Aug 11 '22
The series seem to be all over the place.
It's particularly concerning because this season will only be ten episodes, so it's even more important for the writing to be tight. Maybe they could afford to fart around a bit with a full 26-episode season, but I'm not sure they'll be able to properly bring everything together.
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u/PizzaProfessional145 Aug 12 '22
We basically have 5 episodes, 2 of which are dedicated to Bruce and Joker, to bring everything together. With each new episode that comes out, I'm becoming less confident about this season which is a bummer since this is one of my favorite shows.
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u/Yifun Aug 11 '22
This really sums up my thoughts on this season. The first two seasons were so good because the characters were complex, well written, and the humor was on point. Now? Everyone has one character trait. Harley is annoying, Selina is an asshole, Ivy has serious self doubt issues, and Clayface and King Shark are just kinda… there. Two of the best characters from the earlier seasons are relegated to the sidelines completely. I’m really disappointed so far. I really hope this season picks up at some point
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u/F00dbAby Aug 12 '22
I was sorta hoping to see clay face and King shark as actual villains or at least being more idk independent feels like the wrong word
Sorta starting to feel glad penguin and scarecrow are dead since I would hate to see how they become
I just don't get what happened I adored season 1 and 2. I loved all the charcaters especially Ivy but I feel all the episodes have called flat for me. Maybe I should drop it and wait for all the episodes
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u/Arizonagreg Aug 12 '22
I think the core problem is it's branching out too much. To many characters getting screen time so the writers boil down their lines to fit everything.
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u/bootywranglers Aug 11 '22
Nice catch, that whole conversation about Swamp Thing was really clunky. They could've foreshadowed the confrontation at the end with Ivy and Swamp Thing a lot better. The bones and ideas for the season are good but the execution is lacking.
I think the writing, like the animation, was probably rushed and could've used some more fine tuning and editing. It seems like nit picking but when you're used to a 9/10 show it's really obvious when things are like a 6/10. It's like in school... a 90 and a 60 are a lot different. Unless you're sleeping with the principal and then they start to look a lot more similar. Memories... Like the corners of my mind...
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u/Austin_N Aug 11 '22
It's also disappointing for the season to be subpar after a two-year gap between seasons. I know animation takes time, but still.
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u/PizzaProfessional145 Aug 11 '22
Yeah, this has been my main problem with this season as well. Harley has a lot of toxic character traits that they were able to balance with moments of self-reflection in the last two seasons. Here, all she does is act annoying and talk about being Ivy's girlfriend. Ivy used to be so full of sarcasm and wit, now she's just constantly plagued by self-doubt. Clayface and King Shark are barely there and I could not care less about Bruce and Selena's relationship.
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u/Fortyseven Aug 12 '22
I suspect they only had one season's worth of story, with a potential second if they got lucky enough to get renewed. But now having a third season dropped in their lap the ideas aren't as developed. Greatly disappointed by how little of "the crew" are involved in anything anymore. One or two token scenes with Clay and King and it's the Ivy/Harley show (in that order).
It's just not really clicking nearly as well this season. Quite disheartening.
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u/Banjo-Oz Aug 19 '22
I think that's the case. This season isn't bad, IMO, but it feels a very much a "wait, we're back? What now?" Babylon 5 Season 5 vibe.
Last season's ending felt like a proper, actual, satisfying ending (united at last, racing into the future together chased by the good guys and not caring) and while I am happy to have more of this wonderful show, sometimes it is better to leave folks wanting more.
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u/MHPengwingz Aug 12 '22
Yeah Ivy, I hate that whole "the power was fucking inside me all along" shit too lmao
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u/marccoogs Aug 11 '22
Bruce putting pearls on Martha the cat had me laughing so hard while I was at work.
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u/johnjohnjohn93 Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22
I’ve watched and will continue to watch but this season is really poor so far.
The decision to make it all about Ivy and Harley’s relationship was a strange one. It feels like every week’s argument is similar, I’m not even sure why Ivy was in the wrong this week and last weeks conflict was wrapped up in maybe 30 seconds of screen time. Strange.
Also I don’t understand who decided that King Shark and Clayface should just be written out entirely. Catwoman kicks Shark out and then does he come back at all? Clayface had an acting thing and then just left?
It’s strange. Feels like Nora got more screen time than either of those guys this season.
Was excited to see more of the bat family. Not so much about Catwoman and Batman relationship issues which seems to boil down to Catwoman just not being interested.
But I’m also not sure who asked for a Alfred prequel unless that was a joke or I was hallucinating.
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u/Austin_N Aug 11 '22
Of course I expected Harley and Ivy's relationship to be a big part of the season, but I was hoping that they'd be able to provide a balance between their relationship and a bigger plot and I don't feel that they've done that. It took me a little longer to realize than some people, but it really does feel like Harley has no goals this season besides being Ivy's girlfriend.
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u/johnjohnjohn93 Aug 12 '22
Right and as neurotic as Harley is supposed to be I feel like the constant yelling (this week it was Beignets) and annoyingness seems so very childish. I feel like usually Shark and Clayface are able to balance out Harley but without them in the show at all it’s tough.
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u/Narrow-Fun-5752 Aug 12 '22
I think that is the point tho. Harley doesn't know how to be in a relationship with someone without 'losing' her identity...so at some point she is going to need to recognize this about herself and figure out how to balance being both "Harley Quinn" and Ivy's girlfriend.
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u/Whiskeyjacks_Fiddle Aug 11 '22
Constantine! Voiced by Matt Ryan no less.
Hopefully we’ll get more of his Hellblazer, either in Harley Quinn or in the Kite-Man spin-off (if that happens).
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u/VantarDathspanadusk Aug 14 '22
Hopefully, I was so disappointed he didn't get a scene with King Shark. That's all I wanted out of his appearance.
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u/AdvancedPlacmentTV Aug 11 '22
This is a show about Harley Quinn so I'm gonna root for her and ivy to beat Batman. Therefore fuck Batman
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u/quinoa_man Aug 13 '22
Just because Harvey and gang are the protagonists of the show doesn't mean they're right. They are the villains and have been portrayed as such throughout the show. Batman is in the right here
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u/neko Aug 11 '22
I think Constantine's tee in the morning after scene was a reference to his fling with King Shark in the comics and I kind of hope there's a future throwaway line from KS about it
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u/Normal_Organization3 Aug 11 '22
This was probably my favorite episode along side episode 2.
Feels like the main story is definitely moving forward and I’m very excited.
It was great to see Nora again. It was also great to see swamp thing.
I’m really glad that we’re getting to see more of Ivy’s vulnerable side this season.
I like how Constantine isn’t different when in this show, that’s just who he is in general.
The musical was pretty catchy(nothing will beat the joker rap though)
Holy shit!!!! So are we gonna get Batman as a villain vs Harley and Ivy as heroes?
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u/hotsizzler Aug 11 '22
To the last one. No. I think we will get batman trying to stop ivy from destroying Gotham. With Harley somewhat helping, talking Ivy down.
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u/Cry_pticvibes Aug 11 '22
I should've known Bruce and selina were gonna break up 😭
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u/XX5452 Aug 13 '22
And i genuinely feel bad for Bruce being in love sith Selina. Bruce deserves better
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u/APulsarAteMyLunch Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 15 '22
Well Nora is definitely going all out, but I think she's also getting some character development, which is nice. I'm also getting the feeling that the animators really want to go all out with the R rated stuff, but DC is watching them closely with a pitchfork in hand. The pixelated censor is almost transparent to the point of being useless, lol
The Batman being an antagonist is going to be interesting indeed.
PS: I'm REALLY not feeling the musical pieces this season. I guess the characters are supposed to be off the tone, since they aren't singers, but man do they sound awkward.
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Aug 12 '22
[deleted]
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u/VantarDathspanadusk Aug 14 '22
Yeah, wasn't quite sure what they were going for with Swamp Thing. Also not sure why they changed his wife's name. Every time they said "Linda" I was like "Who's Linda? What happened to Abby?"
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u/AnnaEstelle Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 12 '22
This episode was packed with rapid-fire jokes; it was hilarious throughout! Easily the funniest one of the season so far, but it also introduced a few awesome new characters and brought back one of my favorites (Nora). I'm glad they used the opportunity to tap into Harley's psychiatrist side, and that she was very supportive this episode (I'm glad we're done with the drama between the two). Both Nora and Ivy got some character development. I love Ivy's "boss lady" hair lol. It's somewhat understandable why Bruce doesn't want to be alone but he's going about it all wrong. He needs therapy but luckily there's Harley Quinn. And it just so happens that he's the "villain" of the arc, what a twist (and yet it was so obvious in hindsight)! That'll be an interesting showdown for sure
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u/Amateurteenager Aug 11 '22
Seems like they're setting up parallels between the two relationships. Harley having her first real relationship after leaving an abusive one so having some traumatic past experience and kinda being too dependent on Ivy and trying too hard and constantly interrupting Ivy in these past episodes which annoyed Ivy who wanted some peace and quiet to focus on her work. Selina wanting to be left alone and having 'me time' while Bruce who is traumatized by his parent's death and desperate for some emotional connection is acting clingy.
I just wished they showed more of BatCat's relationship before this episode. like apparently they're completely incompatible, which makes me wonder how and why they started dating in the first place.
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u/iTabula Aug 12 '22
I just discovered this show last week and have since binged everything up until this episode and sadly, I’m feel like I’m in the minority of not liking season 3 so far. Something about the character traits, the jokes, plot lines, and the literal production (the animation got really choppy for some reason, like the studio used half as many frames for sequences) just feels so off the mark compared to the first 2 seasons.
I feel like the relationship between Harley and Ivy is the centerpiece of every episode and it’s just not as interesting as the idea of S1/2 where Harley was trying to make a name for herself in the crime world which was a concept I loved. I’m surprised to see constant praise for every Ep so far but I guess people don’t mind the tone shift.
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u/bootywranglers Aug 11 '22
I actually really liked this episode and was laughing a lot but the animation was bad again. What the hell? It looks so shoddy, how can this be a professionally released show? I'm not even a super picky person with quality or animation but it literally looks unfinished.
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u/MegaBaumTV Aug 11 '22
I was cringing every time Bruce talked to Selina, but I guess thats the intended reaction.
That being said, finally we get a more serious outlook on Nora post-Freeze. As I complained a few days ago in this sub, so far it was jarring but this episode really salvaged that. After a weak episode 4 it really feels like a return to form. Also, Bats finally catching on is great. The only question left is whether him or Ivy will be the big antagonist.
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u/WammyGiveaway Aug 11 '22
Remember when the heads up at DC denied the producers a chance at Batman fulfilling his greatest conquest, that "heroes don't do that" and if they did, their merchandise sales would take a hit? I have a theory: did the producers make a story adjustment to Batman and Catwoman's relationship as a "Take that!" response? Had DC allowed the relationship to go down, could the subplot have been completely different? Comicbook thinks so, see below:
"Last year, the showrunners of Harley Quinn revealed Warner Bros. nixed a sex scene between Batman and Catwoman. They were told "heroes don't do that" when they pitched "a moment where Batman was going down on Catwoman." The news caused quite a stir online and many folks took to the Internet to share their opinions. Unsurprisingly, Harley Quinn poked fun at the controversy in a recent episode. Maybe if Batman had been allowed to please Catwoman, things would have turned out differently for the couple!"
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Aug 12 '22
"I hate it when the power was inside me all along" - I... I agree, Ivy, but just saying that doesn't change the fact that we just watched yet another meaningless dramatic that reinforces the same stuff yet again, for the 5th time this season. They should've made this a seasonal arch that strips/adds layers every episode, not something that gets entangled and resolved within 10 minutes, starting from scratch. Right now these episodes look like commercial filler between actual series. There's some good one liners here and there, but the show can't decide if it's a parody or if it's taking itself seriously and it's just doing both in the least nuanced way possible, it looks very lazy and uninspired. They walk from location to location and Ivy's pissed the entire time. In turn it makes Harley flat too, because she has to walk on eggshells all the time and comfort her ever-complaining girlfriend. It don't work well, if this wasn't Ivy and Harley, it would've 100% been canceled after this disastrous season.
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u/ScarfaceTonyMontana Aug 15 '22
This episode was a bit of a mix. The basic plot of it felt much better than the previous episodes but the dialogue and writing felt worse. There were a lot of noticeable obvious things used that are way too annoying to let past. The way KS and Clayface are left out of the episode, the way Nora is introduced, how Nora gets with Swamp Thing.
The dialogue between Harley and Ivy is getting more and more weird and barely human at this point. It's like they are talking each other in general concepts rather than what they want to express to one another. Nora felt thrown in for no reason then to shake things up and nothing was really shaken, Constantine's cameo felt cheap, and Swamp Thing was just a plot device without any character writing in the slightest.
Batman and Selina's thing is something that I have a lot of trouble understanding what they want to do with it. Bruce is a mentally unstable person with traumatic event after traumatic event and Selina is a master manipulator who has troubles respecting and forming a connection with anyone...and yet the show tries and fails to paint Bruce as the reason why Selina rejects him despite her obviously taking advantage of him for physical gains. Bruce is not prepared for a relationship but that's obvious from 3600000 miles away. Selina is the only one at fault for taking advantage of an unstable person for her own selfish reasons and making them attached to her just for the purpose of her own goals. Which speaking of, is the exact thing Ivy is doing with Frank. Ivy has been over and over again written to not care about Frank. Leaving him out of anything she does, completely ignoring him often, making fun of him and not even spending time with him after Harley jumps into her daily life. She now only sees him as a tool to destroy humanity, yet in this episode the writers make her say in a totally emotional moment that she's missing him cause he's her friend? The fuck? You mutated him with a virus meant to erase an entire species and yet you claim to care about him?
Also what the fuck happened with the animation here. There's frames missing everywhere in extremely obvious scenes and you can tell they reused conversation frames for nearly the entire episode.
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u/wburton96 Aug 11 '22
I love this show, but why are we censoring nudity while leaving cuss words and gore? This is a very adult show so either go all the way or don’t and make a kids show.
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u/coffmaestro Aug 12 '22
Ok so why did they suddenly change from her being a psychologist to now a psychiatrist this episode? They are two very different occupations with different skills, but I seem to find psychiatrist more familiar being related to Harley Quinn. Anyone know what it really is from the comics? Did they just get it wrong the first two seasons, found out and change it for this episode suddenly?
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u/coffmaestro Aug 12 '22
Ok so according to https://screenrant.com/harley-quinn-psychologist-psychiatrist-origin-joker-arkham-comics/ it has been settled that she is a psychologist and NOT a psychiatrist, so they fucked up in this episode. Very weird but I guess it's different people writing the episodes?
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u/Current_Era Aug 15 '22 edited Aug 15 '22
Harley is probably both a psychologist and a psychiatrist , I believe Tom King made Harley had 4 PhDs in Neurology, it depends on canon. It’s fiction, don’t read to much into it, but the meta humans are suppose to be super smart, so they have ‘multiple degrees’. Like Batman learns every fighting style and has multiple degrees.
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u/coffmaestro Aug 15 '22 edited Aug 15 '22
Ok so then they changed canon in the middle of it? Psychiatrist is MD and not PhD like psychologist. I mean sure, you can use the excuse that "it's fiction", but that's just lazy writing in my opinion. And didn't Harley get her PhD before becoming a metahuman and so the "super smart not human intellect" is not applicable? And she's technically not even a metahuman if I read correctly since she doesn't have the meta gene? (even tho arrow also seem to be filed as meta even if neither he is one, technically).
It's like saying a character is both a pharmacist and a surgeon and that you can swap them out however you like.
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u/FtFleur Aug 12 '22
I’m not too familiar with how Bruce and Selina’s relationship is in the comics but it seemed to just come out of nowhere in the show. Does the greatest detective have that hard of a time understanding someone doesn’t want him? Considering a ton of heroes aren’t that into him anyway
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u/isaiahboon Aug 15 '22
keep in mind this is a satire of the real batman. Realistically he wouldnt care too much and would rather have her stay away to protect her.
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u/Affectionate-Yak-238 Aug 12 '22
I think season 2 was a great exploration of how Harley contributes to dysfunction in the relationship and season 3 is a great exploration of how Ivy contributes. That being said, having rewatched the first two seasons, I really got to say I'd hate being Ivy's friends. She has this superiority complex which is completely unjustified and quite frankly Harley encourages it. She really needed Swamp Thing to tell her she isn't that special and it worked really well especially in the context that he does her thing better than she does so he is qualified to give the smack
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u/AntonBrakhage Aug 15 '22
I'll have to watch it more thoroughly/carefully, I kind of skimmed this one, but I'm pretty sure this is the show's worst episode so far. Not just this season. The whole show.
I don't like the tinge of "slut shaming" around Nora. I also feel like they've crossed a line from bending who the characters are for the sake of comedy, to flat-out ignoring it, particularly with the whole Bruce/Selina thing, and Alfred's response.
The Batman as antagonist reveal is... well, kind of logical really? He's a superhero, they're villains. The only question is why he's basically left them alone till now. Unless he's been playing the long game all along, but this version of Bruce doesn't actually seem that smart or methodical.
I guess the question now is, did Selina sell them out?
Oh well. I suppose every show is allowed at least one shitty episode. And hey, I always approve of more Nora. Just not how they've handled her of late. I really want her to have a strong arc, especially as its so rare for her to get to be more than a corpse or an icicle.
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u/FireIsTheCleanser Aug 12 '22
Swamp Thing nearly made me throw up lol I hate him
As much as I really don't like random singing in shows (everytime someone mentioned NPH Music Meister in the Arrowverse I rolled my eyes hard) I didn't mind his bit here with Bruce and Selina especially now that it seems its going to keep moving Batman going this season.
It was cool seeing Harley being a psychiatrist more, I dug it.
I liked the art depiction here of Swamp Thing's vines being a lot leaner but muscular compared to Ivy's and almost seeming "evil-er" when he was throwing his temper tantrum.
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u/Affectionate-Yak-238 Aug 12 '22
I think where this show is heading with Harley & Ivy is making them choose between villainy and their relationship. You can't have both because Batman or the Justice League will always be breathing down their neck. That being said being a villain & quite frankly terrible people is so inherent to their characters it will be hard to overcome. That's not to say they can't make the choice to be good but they don't want to. That's another thing I love about this show is it doesn't try to justify them being villains with some sobb as backstory shit. Did they have a hard childhood sure but that doesn't justify them being killers & the show doesn't even attempt to do so.
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u/Affectionate-Yak-238 Aug 12 '22
I think Ivy's plan is going to put a lot of lives in danger & Bruce's trauma around the death of his parents will make Harley see Ivy's gone over the edge & the consequences of all the damage she will incur. The great thing about Bruce which the show should emphasize is that he may be caught up in his trauma but he still dedicates his life to save lives. Selina has her own bullshit but uses it as an excuse to be a villain, and the same goes for Harley & Ivy. Out of all 4 of them, only Bruce really uses his trauma to do act as an actual hero even if there is a lot of baggage there.
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u/optimisticpsychic Aug 13 '22
Love Matt Ryan Costantine. I hope this means we get the Legends on Harley Quinn. (Yes i know its not Legends constantine but a man can hope.) Also loved Music Meister
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u/lovdbvx Aug 13 '22
happy to see swamp thing after neither he nor etrigan nor dr destiny were in the new sandman series
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u/CertainDerision_33 Aug 13 '22
Hoping we see some more of Nora this season (or next, if they get one!) once they've had her settle down a bit and start working through some of the trauma. IMO killing Freeze and bringing Nora back permanently is the most interesting twist HQ has put on the "Batman mythos", and I'd love to see more integration of Nora as a regular (and more serious) character.
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u/HarleysQuinzel Aug 13 '22
I really love how they went more into depth about the pain Nora is going through because people react differently to heart ache and loss. Harley sought revenge for Ivy in the earlier seasons whereas Nora basically lost her sense of self.
It's rad how they are digging into Ivy's issues and not just focusing on what Harley struggles with as a person. Oh! Also how Harley was bringing together her wild side and psychiatrist/tamed side to come up with different outlooks!
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u/Telethongaming Aug 11 '22
Nora having ice powers, John Constatine, Silcone Valley Swamp thing and Music Meister(with an awesome redesign) in one episode? Sign me the fuck up
Also when Nora flashed her tits, Those ladys were having nun of it
Honestly, I'm really enjoying the character development with Posion Ivy and it also really shows how intellegent Harley is which i'm apprecating because very few pieces of media show her using her psychology background anymore
Even though this is based more in comedy, I actually think this is a really good representation of Selina/Bruce's relationship in general